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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I don't see what the problem was with him saying what he did here. He didn't sound like it was said in an insulting manner and Pocohontas was well thought of enough to be put on a US dollar coin for a time and have a Disney movie made of her.

He also said "they call her Pocohontas." No way of telling who "they" were from the 3 second clip they showed of the speech in this video.


I'm going to file this under "taken out of context" and "SJW bait".

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Excuse me Jack but the lady on the dollar coin was Sacagawea, not Pocohontas.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Excuse me Jack but the lady on the dollar coin was Sacagawea, not Pocohontas.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'd really like for somebody to explain the insult that Trump made in the clip. I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I'm trying to understand exactly what was insulting about it.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

A little bit of thought and preparation and care would have eliminated that gaffe.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

It most certainly wasn't an insult to the Native American people. I mean... WTF?

THIS is just another example of the complete loss of OBJECTIVITY in the media. Everything is a zero sum game about identity politics.

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Originally posted by second:
Native Americans do not agree with you. And it is another example of you and Trump not knowing what the fuck you are talking about and not giving a shit to learn.

"Pocahontas is used a racial slur in the United States all the time," Andrew Curley, citizen of the Navajo Nation, told Newsweek. "I grew up with these kinds of remarks. It's not the name itself but the way it's used. Trump is using it to attack Senator [Elizabeth] Warren and belittle Native Americans at the same time. I take it as a personal insult."
www.newsweek.com/trump-pocahontas-native-americans-elizabeth-warren-ra
cial-slur-723858

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No. I refuse to play your game. You tell me why that was an insult.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Well then, add one more thing to the list Jack is clueless about.


T

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How many Native Americans live in the US and Canada?
You give me a quote from one of them and tell me that all Native Americans don't agree with me.

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Originally posted by G:
Sure it was - he tried to score buddy points by sharing with them that he used one of their more revered historical figures as a slur to insult someone, "We call (that bitch) Pochahontas!" You can argue that he's such a colossal a-hole that he just doesn't know any better - fine. Still an insult. Twice even.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

How many Native Americans live in the US and Canada?

You give me a quote from one of them and tell me that all Native Americans don't agree with me.

Zero Sum, anyone?

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
I believe Trump is nuts. And I know that my opinion doesn't count for a hill of beans as I am Canadian.

So really all I can say is have fun guys with the crazy person. But I also pity you.

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Hey don't underplay your opinion because you aren't American.

Trump is a narcissist first and dire most. His strategy, unfortunately successful, is to keep himself in the news by making outrageous statements. It distracts from anything important being discussed.

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
I believe Trump is nuts. And I know that my opinion doesn't count for a hill of beans as I am Canadian.

So really all I can say is have fun guys with the crazy person. But I also pity you.

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Hey don't underplay your opinion because you aren't American.

Trump is a narcissist first and dire most. His strategy, unfortunately successful, is to keep himself in the news by making outrageous statements. It distracts from anything important being discussed.

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  Insightful. ... Thanks, MD. :)

... Yeah ...
It's obvious he's a narcissist. ... I didn't know he has strategy, tho.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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I'll add this thought. Trump can't speak on any topic concerning the world today. Health care, taxes, foreign policy, you name it. He knows nothing about any subject he is supposed to make policy on. He tweets instead to deflect away from that.

I watched Obama sit in a room full of republicans and discuss health care one Saturday for 6 hrs. No way, and I mean no way, can Trump speak for five minutes coherently on any subject. The man's a jerk.

Believe me...


T

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Originally posted by G:
If Native Americans tell us they're offended then that's enough for me to respect it.

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:

  THGRRI, "He knows nothing about any subject he is supposed to make policy on."

That's kinda what I thought, but didn't know how to put it.

So of all the presidents we've had in over 200 years, Trump
may have broken the record for being the least qualified.


Way to Go, Blondie!
... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I don't see what the problem was with him saying what he did here. He didn't sound like it was said in an insulting manner and Pocohontas was well thought of enough to be put on a US dollar coin for a time and have a Disney movie made of her.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by G:
If Native Americans tell us they're offended then that's enough for me to respect it.

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One did. One example given.

Brenda didn't even say it was a slur. She just said Trump was an asshole.

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Because you labeled the media liars Jack you live in a bubble. It was all over the news why this was a bigoted statement. You stupidly post about it for days, a week, and haven't heard, nor learned about any of this. Why, because like Trump you fail to educate yourself on any given topic. You just spout out street conner bullshit. Like Trump, the first thing that comes to mind. It is the perfect metaphor for your input in these threads.

It is representative, symbolic, of your all encompassing ignorance. Opinions are abstract Jack. They should be based in wise and firm judgements. Yours are not. Even when G tries to educate you, you can't let go of your biases against knowledge long enough to learn something. Even though you asked him to explain it to you.

Something else is going on with Trump we haven't discussed in these threads. Something that is pertinent here. He is a stupid persons president. He is the most ignorant person to hold the position of president. Through his performance he shows on a daily bases he is woefully incompetent. Still, many of those who voted for him say he sounds just like me. Yes, he does, because they are stupid too.

T

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"The more people I meet the more it seems that most never bothered learning the basics. I am not asking anyone to be able to build nano-mites who eat dust to replace vacuums, or be able to explain quantum physics, but for goodness snake: Why can't you learn the basics?"

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Seems to me it was over 20 years ago, they took history out of public
schools. Most of it anyway. And a current history book that I saw at the
time had errors.

I suspect they took Civics out of high schools as well.
They unburdened the student body's developing intellect.

As if to say, "US citizens have no need of this knowledge."

But these subjects still are taught as electives in college, yes?


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Yes, taking a history class in college is still an option. And some still major in it.


T

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by G:
If Native Americans tell us they're offended then that's enough for me to respect it.

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One did. One example given.

Brenda didn't even say it was a slur. She just said Trump was an asshole.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Jack, I explained how she found out that she was part Indian and that is how I found out. Family stories and sometimes that is all you have after so much time has passed.

It's like calling someone a "redskin" or "halfbreed". It means that we are less than a white person. We are still not viewed as being worthy.

So in a nutshell yes Jack it is a slur. I was offended and offended for the code talkers that were there to be honoured.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Does anybody else find it extremely funny that in T's attempt to make everyone believe that Trump is a racist and he's the president of stupid people, that he has even outmatched Wishy as the most offensive person on this board in his constant personal attacks and espousal of hate?

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T

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Second: "He is addicted to drama, the opposite pole from No Drama Obama."

The Presidency as a soap opera in Real Life ...
Not just a silly movie this time?

This is scary to me like handing my car keys to a drunk teen-ager.

Many of us in the Olde School are really appalled ... I hadn't realized
that many don't know the difference between TV (both "reality TV" &
TV for entertainment) and Real Life. I should understand it, tho, since
I've often tried to make my real life more like fantasyland.

Since the election, my hope has been that he'll continue to offend so
often, so badly, that even the far right will reject him.
Isn't the Right s'posed to be Conservative, aka well-mannered?





... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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One in three republicans want a different republican to run in the next presidential race.


T

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One did. One example given.
Brenda didn't even say it was a slur. She just said Trump was an asshole.- SIX


Jack, I explained how she found out that she was part Indian and that is how I found out. Family stories and sometimes that is all you have after so much time has passed.

It's like calling someone a "redskin" or "halfbreed". It means that we are less than a white person. We are still not viewed as being worthy.
So in a nutshell yes Jack it is a slur. I was offended and offended for the code talkers that were there to be honoured. - BRENDA

Sorry Brenda, but "it's like calling somebody a "redskin" or a "halfbreed" doesn't cut it for me. He didn't call her a redskin or a halfbreed. He's not Voldemort going around calling people mudbloods.
He said Pocahontas. He said that some people call her Pocahontas. Looks to me like it was nothing more than a miserably failed attempt at levity.
I've already said it wasn't a smart thing to say, and I'll even go as far as to say that it could be considered to be insensitive to some people, but it wasn't a racial slur and did not come from a place of hatred. I'm sorry you feel offended (although I will not apologize for him because I didn't say it).
Ask yourself this. If Obama were to have said the exact same thing, charmer that he was, do you think that you or anyone else would have thought claimed it was a racial slur? And before you say "oh... he wouldn't say that", we're talking in theoreticals here. He's considered to be smarter, more charming, more likable and he's a black man. And he's a democrat. I think if it were mentioned by the MSM after the fact it would only be to say how cute of a moment it was. - SIX

I am going to take a page out of the President of the Navajo nation's book and try to teach. Going backwards.
1. If Obama ever said something that stupid and any democrat thought it was cute then that democrat should have been taken out and shot.- BRENDA

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2. Obama has more intelligence in his little finger than Trump in his whole body inspite of having about 20years in age on Obama.- BRENDA

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3. Obama grew up hearing that kind of garbage either spoken to his face or whispered behind his back. His own WHITE mother would have heard the same types of things or worse for marrying a black man.

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4. If you go back and listen to some of Trump's speeches he uses the name Pocohontas himself and not "they call her that."
5. Have you never heard the word Mexican, Japanese or Chinese used with derision or snarled? Because the person using it doesn't like someone who isn't white. That is what made it an insult. He was being patronizing and condescending in front of those Elders and that was no place to take a jab at a political opponent.

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Look up the comments made by the President of the Navajo nation. He said that Trump shouldn't have done that. He was there to thank them for their service to their country. Which as the President said is what any guest should have done.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Yes, Sig. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Smart Brenda, you can't explain to people who are not capable of learning. Only of having intractable traits.


T

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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One did. One example given.
Brenda didn't even say it was a slur. She just said Trump was an asshole.- SIX


Jack, I explained how she found out that she was part Indian and that is how I found out. Family stories and sometimes that is all you have after so much time has passed.

It's like calling someone a "redskin" or "halfbreed". It means that we are less than a white person. We are still not viewed as being worthy.
So in a nutshell yes Jack it is a slur. I was offended and offended for the code talkers that were there to be honoured. - BRENDA

Sorry Brenda, but "it's like calling somebody a "redskin" or a "halfbreed" doesn't cut it for me. He didn't call her a redskin or a halfbreed. He's not Voldemort going around calling people mudbloods.
He said Pocahontas. He said that some people call her Pocahontas. Looks to me like it was nothing more than a miserably failed attempt at levity.
I've already said it wasn't a smart thing to say, and I'll even go as far as to say that it could be considered to be insensitive to some people, but it wasn't a racial slur and did not come from a place of hatred. I'm sorry you feel offended (although I will not apologize for him because I didn't say it).
Ask yourself this. If Obama were to have said the exact same thing, charmer that he was, do you think that you or anyone else would have thought claimed it was a racial slur? And before you say "oh... he wouldn't say that", we're talking in theoreticals here. He's considered to be smarter, more charming, more likable and he's a black man. And he's a democrat. I think if it were mentioned by the MSM after the fact it would only be to say how cute of a moment it was. - SIX

I am going to take a page out of the President of the Navajo nation's book and try to teach. Going backwards.
1. If Obama ever said something that stupid and any democrat thought it was cute then that democrat should have been taken out and shot.- BRENDA

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By whom? The MSM let go by the destruction of Libya, the attempted destruction of Syria, and Obama's drone warfare with its attendant blood-letting, ethnic cleansing, terrorism, and displacement without a word. So-called liberals and democrats did the same. The Nobel committee gave Obama a peace prize, just for being the first half-black American President, and didn't have the balls to take it back after he started so much violence and supported jihadist terrorists. Everybody gave Obama a big fat "pass" on all of the evil that he did, maybe because he was half-black, just like everybody (wrongly) gave Clarence Thomas the benefit of the doubt, just because HE was black. Identity politics at its worst.

Just my opinion.

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2. Obama has more intelligence in his little finger than Trump in his whole body inspite of having about 20years in age on Obama.- BRENDA

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And what did he use that intelligence FOR? To sweet-talk the American people while he was busy waging secret/proxy/direct warfare all over the Middle East, bailing out the banks while screwing average Americans, and spying on just about everybody? Everybody gave Obama a big fat "pass" on all of the evil that he did.

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3. Obama grew up hearing that kind of garbage either spoken to his face or whispered behind his back. His own WHITE mother would have heard the same types of things or worse for marrying a black man.

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He grew up in Indonesia. And everybody gave Obama a big fat "pass" on all of the evil that he did.

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4. If you go back and listen to some of Trump's speeches he uses the name Pocohontas himself and not "they call her that."
5. Have you never heard the word Mexican, Japanese or Chinese used with derision or snarled? Because the person using it doesn't like someone who isn't white. That is what made it an insult. He was being patronizing and condescending in front of those Elders and that was no place to take a jab at a political opponent.

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I heard no snarl and no derision, so if this is all reduced to a "tone of voice" kind of thing, I heard a cringingly awkward attempt at trying to make people feel welcome. As I said before, if Trump wanted to reference an actual Native American in Congress, he could have referred to Markwayne Mullin, who is a registered Cherokee, or he should have just skipped the topic altogether. A little but of prep on Trump's part would have helped.

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Look up the comments made by the President of the Navajo nation. He said that Trump shouldn't have done that. He was there to thank them for their service to their country. Which as the President said is what any guest should have done.

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But he did not say that it was a racist insult. What I HEARD was that there should have been no reference to Warren at all, because the focus SHOULD HAVE been on the Code Talkers.

I'm sorry that you feel offended, but I don't think offense was meant. I guess this is something that we'll just have to disagree on.


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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Originally posted by G:

And there in lies the big problem: HE'S A SELFISH IDIOT. He didn't even have the simple respect or empathy for his guests to understand that it wasn't about him and that that comment might be a bad idea. He should have known better but he runs his mouth because he feels entitled by his wealth and power to have all the candy in the world whenever he wants and 'eff everyone else.

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Has he done anything yet that benefits people that aren't wealthy white dudes? Almost everything has been a take away or a negating of something, and almost all of it an action against non-white people. He insults Native Peoples in the White House one week, and then opens up some of the land they hold as sacred the next. He must hate them. He attacks black athletes. He attacks Muslims. How much racism does he have to exhibit before you have a problem, or until you are comfortable having no problem being publicly pro-bigot?

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Originally posted by G:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm sorry that you feel offended, but I don't think offense was meant.

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And there in lies the big problem: HE'S A SELFISH IDIOT. He didn't even have the simple respect or empathy for his guests to understand that it wasn't about him and that that comment might be a bad idea. He should have known better but he runs his mouth because he feels entitled by his wealth and power to have all the candy in the world whenever he wants and 'eff everyone else. Has he done anything yet that benefits people that aren't wealthy white dudes? Almost everything has been a take away or a negating of something, and almost all of it an action against non-white people. He insults Native Peoples in the White House one week, and then opens up some of the land they hold as sacred the next. He must hate them. He attacks black athletes. He attacks Muslims. How much racism does he have to exhibit before you have a problem, or until you are comfortable having no problem being publicly pro-bigot?

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Yep and that is the larger point. He is self serving and ignorant. Those are just two negative aspects of Trumps personality. There are many more. His personal makeup is the personal makeup of a terrible person. One not fit to be president.

None of what comes out of his mouth or he attempts to do suggests he has vision. Only a lack of knowledge and forethought. The fact that sig and Jack disagree is documented here for all to reference.

History won't wait to judge Trump. It has already begun. The history of these threads won't wait to judge sig and Jack. That too has already begun.


T

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I wear it with pride, T.

I'm not a mindless Maddow sycophant parroting her very well paid words.


Trump has a lot of flaws. This I don't deny.

There's no need for you or anybody else to make a bunch of shit up about him when he does a bang up job of it himself.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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And there's the flaw in your thinking Jack. What I and others are posting about Trump is not made up.


T

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
He says something stupid, out of place, and that could possibly offend people with delicate sensibilities when it didn't need to be said it all.

You go all out and say beyond a shadow of a doubt it came from a place of hate and was racist.

Making shit up is EXACTLY what you are doing.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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It was mentioned here Jack. Some just spoke on it. You're the one who turned it into a huge discussion. Why, cause you're a moron who still doesn't understand what happened and why. Even though it's been explained countless times to you.

Trump acted shamelessly. He turned an event meant to honor Native Americans who served with distinction in WW11, into an opportunity to attack and insult a sitting Senator. For selfish reasons Jack. He sullied this evet for selfish reasons. He used the name Pocahontas to describe this senator in an insulting way.

Pocahontas wasn't even her real name. Here father used a fake name to introduce here. He felt White men would sully her somehow. He didn't want her real name used when they did so. So he introduced her as Pocahontas. Sure as shit Jack Trump proved him right. I believe her real name was Amonute.

I cannot remember what has been explained to you so far so I will add this. Trump held the event in front of a presidential portrait. The portrait of the president responsible for the trail of tears.

You're just to stupid Jack. You're just to stupid.


T

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The black athletes he "attacks" are racist. -SIX

That's just crazy talk.- G

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

That's just denial. Racism isn't something that just white people do. Many Japanese are incredibly racist (they think Koreans are subhuman), so are many Chinese. Many blacks are racist against whites: they have expectations of "white people" that have nothing to do with how any white individual might actually behave.

Now, I will say that people tend to cry "racism" over things that AREN'T race, like differences in national origin, language, religion, or citizenship. As far as I know, Spanish-speaking peoples aren't a "race", and neither are those who speak Mandarin. Being a "Muslim" doesn't define a racial group either, and citizenship doesn't confer a "race" on anybody.

Maybe instead of constantly talking about "racism" we should talk about "prejudice" because THAT is the more general term that covers a multitude of sins.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, I know Trump is a nationalist. Whether or not he's a "white" nationalist, I don't know.

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Right, this is why you should not comment on the issue of racism or bigotry. You are one sig. Hey, how bout them Jews? You're such a shit.


T

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Right, this is why you should not comment on the issue of racism or bigotry. You are one sig. Hey, how bout them Jews? You're such a shit.

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