Is Trump Nuts? by THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Immigration was a big deal in the 2016 election. All the budget and regulation and Obamacare and climate change stuff was just noise that voters didn't take very seriously. But building a wall was nice and simple, and they thought it would bring back their jobs and keep their towns safe. Trump is nuts to not do it. The Wall is why he is President according to www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/04/its-wall-wot-won-it

Well thanks for adding motherjones to the list of sites not worth ever reading.

There were many reasons why Trump is the president now. The wall is only one of them. The biggest reason that this happened was because the Democrats have become so terrible that Hillary was their only choice.

While Trump is building that wall, you should work on re-building your party and getting somebody who could actually run against him in 2020.

I'll take your silence on the matter of the sanctuary city as your concession that you were wrong about what you posted.

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Monday, April 17, 2017 12:55 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

According to Pollster, Trump's approval rating has been improving for the past couple of weeks. I guess a couple of high-profile bombings can do wonders even if people don't really trust you to keep your promises anymore. If Trump won't build the Wall, he better drop many more bombs for the sake of his approval ratings. I suggest North Korea. I just want to be helpful.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/04/views-trump-down-job-approval

Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Immigration was a big deal in the 2016 election. All the budget and regulation and Obamacare and climate change stuff was just noise that voters didn't take very seriously. But building a wall was nice and simple, and they thought it would bring back their jobs and keep their towns safe. Trump is nuts to not do it. The Wall is why he is President according to www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/04/its-wall-wot-won-it

Well thanks for adding motherjones to the list of sites not worth ever reading.

There were many reasons why Trump is the president now. The wall is only one of them. The biggest reason that this happened was because the Democrats have become so terrible that Hillary was their only choice.

While Trump is building that wall, you should work on re-building your party and getting somebody who could actually run against him in 2020.

I'll take your silence on the matter of the sanctuary city as your concession that you were wrong about what you posted.

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Monday, April 17, 2017 12:58 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

6-string

SECOND is a fanatic. You can't discuss anything with a fanatic.

Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Monday, April 17, 2017 1:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
According to Pollster, Trump's approval rating has been improving for the past couple of weeks. I guess a couple of high-profile bombings can do wonders even if people don't really trust you to keep your promises anymore. If Trump won't build the Wall, he better drop many more bombs for the sake of his approval ratings. I suggest North Korea. I just want to be helpful.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/04/views-trump-down-job-approval

Yep... The MSM got what it wanted and the sheeple are settling down because the media isn't triggering them every day.

Good lesson that trump is learning there Second.

Maybe now would be a good time to reflect on the MSM yourself and ask why after dropping bombs do they back off of him after being so relentless for the last 3 months?

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Monday, April 17, 2017 2:23 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

The Simpsons on Immigration
http://angrybearblog.com/2017/04/the-simpsons-on-immigration.html

Simpsons aficionados among you already know that the Simpsons addressed the issue of immigration back in 1996, in the episode “Much Apu About Nothing”. Here’s a summary of the beginning of the episode, thanks to Wikipedia.

On an ordinary day, a bear strolls onto Evergreen Terrace. It is quickly subdued by the police, not before accidentally shooting and capturing Barney Gumble. Homer rants about these “constant bear attacks”, even though this is the very first bear Ned has seen in his forty years of living on that street. Homer then leads an angry mob and demands that Mayor Quimby do something about this. Soon, the Bear Patrol is created, a useless organization which even makes use of a B-2 Spirit. Homer then gets just as shocked [as] when he saw the bear when he discovers that taxes have been raised five dollars to maintain the Bear Patrol.

After that, the angry mob returns to the mayor’s office, yelling “Down with taxes! Down with taxes!” The mayor has to do something…

Quimby: Are those morons getting dumber or just louder?

Assistant: [Takes a moment to check his clipboard] Dumber, sir.

Quimby: They want the bear patrol but they won’t pay taxes for it. This is a situation that calls for real leadership. [Opens the door to his office to confront the angry mob.]

People, your taxes are high because of illegal immigrants!

Moe Szyslak: Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them.

Let’s not confuse fiction with reality, though. I certainly can’t believe that politicians in real life would ever raise the issue of immigration to cover up for their failures in other areas of policy, such as taxes, government spending, income inequality, education, health care…

Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
According to Pollster, Trump's approval rating has been improving for the past couple of weeks. I guess a couple of high-profile bombings can do wonders even if people don't really trust you to keep your promises anymore. If Trump won't build the Wall, he better drop many more bombs for the sake of his approval ratings. I suggest North Korea. I just want to be helpful.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/04/views-trump-down-job-approval

Yep... The MSM got what it wanted and the sheeple are settling down because the media isn't triggering them every day.

Good lesson that trump is learning there Second.

Maybe now would be a good time to reflect on the MSM yourself and ask why after dropping bombs do they back off of him after being so relentless for the last 3 months?

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Monday, April 17, 2017 5:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Care to try addressing the facts, again?

Or do you shoot nothing but blanks?

Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Monday, April 17, 2017 6:33 PM

I think it's Aspergers. You can't argue anything with second because she will constantly change the subject on you when you're right. Notice in our exchange she never once contested any of my points, nor conceded any. At least 5 replies there were links to new stories and points that only vaguely had anything to do with what we were talking about.

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Monday, April 17, 2017 7:38 PM

DREAMTROVE

Nah, Second's okay. I think she takes in a lot of lefty media, and has some things that she takes in which come from reading other people's opinions, which is like what you said in the other thread about partisan stuff. It just tilts things.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 6:32 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
I think it's Aspergers. You can't argue anything with second because she will constantly change the subject on you when you're right. Notice in our exchange she never once contested any of my points, nor conceded any. At least 5 replies there were links to new stories and points that only vaguely had anything to do with what we were talking about.

Did you get the point of the Simpson reference?

Quote:
The angry mob returns to the mayor’s office, yelling “Down with taxes! Down with taxes!” The mayor has to do something…

Quimby: Are those morons getting dumber or just louder?

Assistant: [Takes a moment to check his clipboard] Dumber, sir.

Do you see yourself as Mayor Quimby or the Mob? I see myself as the Assistant and you are not Quimby.

I don't discuss it because actually talking to a Republican about politics is like talking to them about evolution. (Keep in mind I'm in Texas. In your state, you may have people with Republican leanings, you may be one yourself, who are open to "conversion" to evolution, to "belief" in science. I'm using evolution as an example of a topic that is not worth discussing in an open forum with somebody that is just looking for an excuse to say Liar! or fanatic! or Autistic!) The Texas Republicans respond to evolution with "You've got your fossils created by Satan (substitute 'fake facts' if it was about politics) from your non-Christian (substitute ‘leftist’ if it is about politics) scientists with their theories of evolution (there is often sneering at the word theory) but the only true facts are in the books of the Holy Bible." Bejesus to all that.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 6:32 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

A major problem with Trump’s pledge to deport 11 million undocumented immigrants
www.vox.com/2017/4/17/15294810/trump-immigration-enforcement-crackdown
-problem

The fundamental problem with removing 11 million unauthorized people from the country is immigration courts have a massive backlog. If you have not previously been deported from the US, and you aren’t caught within a certain distance from the border — or you are caught within that distance but you’ve been living here for several years — you have the right to an immigration court hearing before you’re deported. And that means that over the last several years, because Congress realized it wanted to put a lot more funding toward immigration enforcement, it put it toward DHS [Department of Homeland Security]. It didn’t put it toward DOJ [Department of Justice], where the immigration courts were.

So, over the entire Obama administration, the court backlog went from a year, a year and a half, to two and a half years. So if you nab a longtime resident in Chicago— that’s two and a half years where they’re going to be out in the community, where in theory they could abscond and not show up for their hearings. Or that’s two and a half years that you have to keep them in detention, which gets extremely expensive, even if you’re cutting costs by putting them in private facilities.

One of the ways you could root around it is by expanding the exception — the “Oh, you’re not entitled to an immigration court hearing.” And there should be regulations coming down soon about that. Some people are worried that it’s going to allow anyone who gets caught anywhere in the US to, if they can’t prove they’ve been here for a couple of years, to get deported without a hearing. We don’t know for sure that’s what’s going to happen, but that’s the rumor that’s been going around.

Another way to get around it is to use federal criminal court, which is not as backlogged as immigration courts generally, and charge and convict you of a crime. And once you’ve been convicted of a crime, it is much more easy to ship you through immigration court in a jail or prison and deport you.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 8:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Did you get the point of the Simpson reference?

Yes.

Quote:
Do you see yourself as Mayor Quimby or the Mob? I see myself as the Assistant and you are not Quimby.

LOL... I'm not the assistant or Quimby, and I'm certainly not the Mob.

Quote:
I don't discuss it because actually talking to a Republican about politics is like talking to them about evolution. (Keep in mind I'm in Texas. In your state, you may have people with Republican leanings, you may be one yourself, who are open to "conversion" to evolution, to "belief" in science. I'm using evolution as an example of a topic that is not worth discussing in an open forum with somebody that is just looking for an excuse to say Liar! or fanatic! or Autistic!) The Texas Republicans respond to evolution with "You've got your fossils created by Satan (substitute 'fake facts' if it was about politics) from your non-Christian (substitute ‘leftist’ if it is about politics) scientists with their theories of evolution (there is often sneering at the word theory) but the only true facts are in the books of the Holy Bible." Bejesus to all that.

I'm open to evolution. I'm open to the idea of God. I wasn't there. I didn't see it happen. Both ideas are impossible to disprove, at least at this point in time.

Anybody who is 100% convinced in either is funny to me, especially if they preach about it outside of their own collective. They are doubly funny if they believe that one idea precludes the other. I see no reason why they are mutually exclusive.

I'm not a Republican, although I usually tend to vote that way. Most of those online tests put me to the right fiscally and the middle left socially. The problem with Democrats today are that they've been infested with this ultra-liberal mentality and SJWishness that is poisoning the minds of the college kids in their gender studies and racial sensitivity courses. I have no problem with anybody teaching the Theory of Evolution in class, but I do have a problem with them teaching that the white male is evil and should be systematically removed from the equation.

http://rightwingnews.com/democrats/white-professor-says-all-white-peop
le-are-evil-some-only-less-bad-than-others/

http://socawlege.com/boston-university-assistant-professor-saida-grund
y-attacks-whites-makes-false-statements-on-twitter/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/13/cornell-professor-majo
rity-white-people-are-racist/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/26/drexel-professor-draws-ire-after-
posting-white-genocide-tweet-on-christmas.html

This type of stuff is the reason that Trump won. I'm sure the wall didn't hurt, but to try to say that the wall was the reason is just stupid.

He also did not brainstorm the Sanctuary City. As I pointed out before, your own post refuted that statement only two paragraphs below.

I said you have Aspergers, because you behave as if you have Aspergers.

Twice in our conversation yesterday I conceded ideas. At least twice I showed you why you were wrong about something yourself and rather than admit that you were wrong you just posted some vaguely related idea with a story behind it.

You don't have intellectual conversations with anybody. You talk at them. You talk down to them. Everything you post is an argument you've already won in your mind because you have all the answers. You end up doing exactly what you accuse the Texas Republicans of doing when it comes to the theory of evolution.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 10:05 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:

You talk down to them. Everything you post is an argument you've already won in your mind because you have all the answers. You end up doing exactly what you accuse the Texas Republicans of doing when it comes to the theory of evolution.

A lot of bile coming from you, 6stringJoker. Are you offended that the 1% doesn’t change paths, swerve around you, just because you are getting run over by them in the real world? But Trump is a completely different kind of 1 percenter. Oh yes! He is considerate of your delicate sensibilities. Actually, he has got your pride and vulnerabilities figured out. He knows what will persuade you. To him, you are a vote. To me, you are a drain.

Since today is a deadline for taxes:

Trump’s unreleased tax returns may doom his tax overhaul effort
www.nytimes.com/2017/04/17/us/politics/tax-code-overhaul-trump.html

Democrats have pledged not to cooperate on rewriting the tax code unless they know how it would benefit the billionaire president and his family.

Republicans, more than a dozen of whom are also calling for President Trump to release his taxes, remain sharply divided on possible legislation.

Trump continues to adamantly keep his old taxes returns, the ones no longer being audited, a top secret. I see no way around it: that is nuts if he was serious about passing his version of tax reform. Historically, that’s also nuts on his part because other Presidents made their tax returns public knowledge.
www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/web/presidentialtaxreturns

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 10:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:A lot of bile coming from you, 6stringJoker. Are you offended that the 1% doesn’t change paths, swerve around you, just because you are getting run over by them in the real world?

Nope. I didn't say anything at all about 1%. I was talking to you about something completely different.

I guess we're going to veer completely off course again, huh?

Sorry... stopped reading the rest of your post because you can't stay on topic.

You're welcome to try again.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 11:14 AM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:

You talk down to them. Everything you post is an argument you've already won in your mind because you have all the answers. You end up doing exactly what you accuse the Texas Republicans of doing when it comes to the theory of evolution.
A lot of bile coming from you, 6stringJoker. Are you offended that the 1% doesn’t change paths, swerve around you, just because you are getting run over by them in the real world? But Trump is a completely different kind of 1 percenter. Oh yes! He is considerate of your delicate sensibilities. Actually, he has got your pride and vulnerabilities figured out. He knows what will persuade you. To him, you are a vote. To me, you are a drain.

Trumps supporters here post their differing versions of the truth. In actuality, the truth is what they find themselves continuously running away from. It is what's dismantling their agenda here.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 11:51 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:

Nope. I didn't say anything at all about 1%. I was talking to you about something completely different.

I guess we're going to veer completely off course again, huh?

Sorry... stopped reading the rest of your post because you can't stay on topic.

You're welcome to try again.

I'm not staying on your preferred topics because the topic is Is Trump nuts? The subtopic is Are Trump Voters nuts? Here I go again with an explanation of why Trump Voters are nuts. It is a historic explanation, and it even covers your particular case of being young, yet unemployable due to whatever is haunting your brain.

Why the USA is so unhappy despite having so much wealth
https://qz.com/842613/why-the-us-and-uk-are-so-unhappy-despite-having-
so-much-wealth/

Moykr points out this has happened before—when farmers lost their jobs to factories:

“The American progressive movement in the 1890s was driven by farmers. They were angry that farm jobs were disappearing. They didn’t stop progress—technological change is going to keep happening. And we should expect that this always brings anger and frustration. People don’t like their lives being destroyed—there is very little we can do, but the alternative is stasis. Technology moves forward, but leaves lots of corpses along the road.”

In some ways, the effects of heightened uncertainty are worse now because people live longer. “As you get older it is harder to learn new tricks,” Moykr says. “Before, if you were displaced at 45, you only had five or 10 years of work left, it wasn’t such a big deal. But now you might still have another 40 years. All of this causes more uncertainty.”

Moykr’s theory might be why higher rates of dissatisfaction are recorded even among people who keep their jobs. Studies show one of Trump’s more reliable groups of supporters are relatively high earners in economically depressed areas. They still have good jobs, but the poor economy that surrounds them may make them nervous about their family’s future.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 12:38 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:

I guess we're going to veer completely off course again, huh?

I really can't resist this story about Trump and his aircraft carrier. He truly went to heights on nuttiness:

Asked about the deployment of the Carl Vinson in an interview with Fox Business Network that aired April 12, President Trump said: “We are sending an armada, very powerful.” The U.S. media went into overdrive and Fox reported on April 14 that the armada was “steaming” toward North Korea.

Sending a carrier somewhere is a standard way of huffing and puffing without really doing anything of substance. Every president has done it. Trump, however, has brought it to new levels of irrelevant theater. Defense News tells us where the carrier and its strike group were really headed:

www.defensenews.com/articles/us-carrier-still-thousands-of-miles-from-
korea
Rather, the ships were actually operating several hundred miles south of Singapore, taking part in scheduled exercises with Australian forces in the Indian Ocean. On Saturday — according to photographs released by the U.S. Navy — the carrier passed north through the Sunda Strait, the passage between the Indonesian islands of Sumatra and Java. It's about 3,500 miles from Korea.

Yes sir, Trump's nuts. North Korea was not fooled since they can access the same information I can, but Trump Voters were fooled into believing. In fairness, neither Trump nor the Navy said when the Carl Vinson was going to head north, so technically no one lied here, as if that has ever been a concern for Trump or his voters. Trump's "very powerful" armada will make its way to the Korean Peninsula eventually, but apparently he's in no rush.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 1:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
I'm not staying on your preferred topics because the topic is Is Trump nuts?

What prefered topic?

You brought something up, we were discussing it. I proved you wrong on several occasions, and I also admitted that I was wrong about something. You then brought up 5 other things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

I can't have a conversation with you because you are just all over the map. This is a problem I've pointed out before, and others have noticed as well.

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Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:20 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:

I can't have a conversation with you because you are just all over the map. This is a problem I've pointed out before, and others have noticed as well.

It's a technical problem because we are not at the same spot on Earth at the same time having a conversation. This is not like emails sent back and forth to colleagues. Not like a business letter sent by US Postal Service. For me it is more like I'm sending vacation postcards from an exotic land and you are a stranger who momentarily got your hands on a message not written specially for you, then you scribble a note on my postcard and send on it along, thinking you are making a positive contribution to humanity. You're not.

"Conversation" is possible between like minded people who have the time and indicate they want to "converse". I come here to post some oddity I find about Trump's mind, or the minds of his voters, or the minds of people that think Trump is not half nuts. I'm not here to read your opinion then post my response to the peculiar way your mind works. That would be more effort than you are worth to me. You're just some stranger scribbling notes on post cards I'm sending to the future. I'm going to do what I came here to do one more time:

www.nytimes.com/2017/04/18/books/review/knowledge-illusion-steven-slom
an-philip-fernbach.html

. . . Most people don’t like too many facts, and they certainly don’t like to feel stupid. If you think that you can convince Donald Trump of the truth of global warming by presenting him with the relevant facts — think again.

Indeed, scientists who believe that facts can change public opinion may themselves be the victims of scientific groupthink. The scientific community believes in the efficacy of facts, hence those loyal to that community continue to believe they can win public debates by marshaling the right facts, despite much empirical evidence to the contrary. Similarly, the traditional belief in individual rationality may itself be the product of groupthink rather than of empirical evidence. In one of the climactic moments of Monty Python’s “Life of Brian,” a huge crowd of starry-eyed followers mistakes Brian for the Messiah. Caught in a corner, Brian tells his disciples: “You don’t need to follow me, you don’t need to follow anybody! You’ve got to think for yourselves! You’re all individuals!” The enthusiastic crowd then chants in unison: “Yes! We’re all individuals!” Monty Python was parodying the counterculture orthodoxy of the 1960s, but the point may be true of the belief in rational individualism in other ages too.

In the coming decades, the world will probably become far more complex than it is today. Individual humans will consequently know even less about the technological gadgets, the economic currents and the political dynamics that shape the world. How could we then vest authority in voters and customers who are so ignorant and susceptible to manipulation? If Sloman and Fernbach (S&F) are correct, providing future voters and customers with more and better facts would hardly solve the problem. So what’s the alternative? S&F don’t have a solution. They suggest a few remedies like offering people simple rules of thumb (“Save 15 percent of your income,” say), educating people on a just-in-time basis (teaching them how to handle unemployment immediately when they are laid off) and encouraging people to be more realistic about their ignorance. This will hardly be enough, of course. True to their own advice, S&F are well aware of the limits of their own understanding, and they know they don’t know the answer. In all likelihood, nobody knows.

Is the Truth Still Out There?
April 18, 2017
http://onlyagame.typepad.com/only_a_game/2017/04/is-the-truth-still-ou
t-there.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:

I can't have a conversation with you because you are just all over the map. This is a problem I've pointed out before, and others have noticed as well.
...thinking you are making a positive contribution to humanity. You're not.

"Conversation" is possible between like minded people who have the time and indicate they want to "converse". I come here to post some oddity I find about Trump's mind, or the minds of his voters, or the minds of people that think Trump is not half nuts. I'm not here to read your opinion then post my response to the peculiar way your mind works. That would be more effort than you are worth to me.

Well then. Go fuck yourself.

By all means, continue to post your ill thought out ramblings about nothing then. Don't let me stop you.

To "The Future":

Do your own fact checking when reading the bullshit that Second posts. A lot of times she makes it pretty easy by posting things that argue her own points in the very same post.

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Wednesday, April 19, 2017 8:35 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:

Well then. Go fuck yourself.

By all means, continue to post your ill thought out ramblings about nothing then. Don't let me stop you.

To "The Future":

Do your own fact checking when reading the bullshit that Second posts. A lot of times she makes it pretty easy by posting things that argue her own points in the very same post.

Hey, 6stringJoker! I actually read what you wrote on another post at www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61597&mid=1029240#
1029240 You did not understand the article (assuming you read it) because your comment was

Quote:
Maybe if they stopped lying, they'd stop being called liars.

I have a better title to this article...

Talking To Myself: The Sound of a Tree Falling in a Forest When No One is There to Hear it

Real world Texas Republicans that I am familiar with, and you, pull out the ultimate defense every day when you are caught lying or deliberately misrepresenting facts: You accuse the other person of being the liar or not understanding. It is a very useful technique if the truthful one, the knowledgeable one, won't take it up a level to murder, or at least punch in the nose, the liar. Moses knew of this nasty and primitive technique used by liars to defend their lies. That is why the 8th Commandment that Moses brought down from God is “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor” because if the liar does bear false witness, the neighbor might break the 5th Commandment: “Thou shalt not murder”. The Commandments are there for your protection, 6stringJoker.

www.dummies.com/religion/christianity/catholicism/catholicism-and-the-
ten-commandments/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, April 19, 2017 8:47 AM

LOL...

Show me once where I have lied about anything here.

The rest of that post sounds like a death threat.

That wasn't a threat on my life now, was it Second?

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Wednesday, April 19, 2017 10:05 AM

THGRRI

A quote from SECOND

This is way over his head SECOND. Don't drop him from this height, he won't survive.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:

I can't have a conversation with you because you are just all over the map. This is a problem I've pointed out before, and others have noticed as well.
It's a technical problem because we are not at the same spot on Earth at the same time having a conversation. This is not like emails sent back and forth to colleagues. Not like a business letter sent by US Postal Service. For me it is more like I'm sending vacation postcards from an exotic land and you are a stranger who momentarily got your hands on a message not written specially for you, then you scribble a note on my postcard and send on it along, thinking you are making a positive contribution to humanity. You're not.

"Conversation" is possible between like minded people who have the time and indicate they want to "converse". I come here to post some oddity I find about Trump's mind, or the minds of his voters, or the minds of people that think Trump is not half nuts. I'm not here to read your opinion then post my response to the peculiar way your mind works. That would be more effort than you are worth to me. You're just some stranger scribbling notes on post cards I'm sending to the future. I'm going to do what I came here to do one more time:

www.nytimes.com/2017/04/18/books/review/knowledge-illusion-steven-slom
an-philip-fernbach.html

. . . Most people don’t like too many facts, and they certainly don’t like to feel stupid. If you think that you can convince Donald Trump of the truth of global warming by presenting him with the relevant facts — think again.

Indeed, scientists who believe that facts can change public opinion may themselves be the victims of scientific groupthink. The scientific community believes in the efficacy of facts, hence those loyal to that community continue to believe they can win public debates by marshaling the right facts, despite much empirical evidence to the contrary. Similarly, the traditional belief in individual rationality may itself be the product of groupthink rather than of empirical evidence. In one of the climactic moments of Monty Python’s “Life of Brian,” a huge crowd of starry-eyed followers mistakes Brian for the Messiah. Caught in a corner, Brian tells his disciples: “You don’t need to follow me, you don’t need to follow anybody! You’ve got to think for yourselves! You’re all individuals!” The enthusiastic crowd then chants in unison: “Yes! We’re all individuals!” Monty Python was parodying the counterculture orthodoxy of the 1960s, but the point may be true of the belief in rational individualism in other ages too.

In the coming decades, the world will probably become far more complex than it is today. Individual humans will consequently know even less about the technological gadgets, the economic currents and the political dynamics that shape the world. How could we then vest authority in voters and customers who are so ignorant and susceptible to manipulation? If Sloman and Fernbach (S&F) are correct, providing future voters and customers with more and better facts would hardly solve the problem. So what’s the alternative? S&F don’t have a solution. They suggest a few remedies like offering people simple rules of thumb (“Save 15 percent of your income,” say), educating people on a just-in-time basis (teaching them how to handle unemployment immediately when they are laid off) and encouraging people to be more realistic about their ignorance. This will hardly be enough, of course. True to their own advice, S&F are well aware of the limits of their own understanding, and they know they don’t know the answer. In all likelihood, nobody knows.

Is the Truth Still Out There?
April 18, 2017
http://onlyagame.typepad.com/only_a_game/2017/04/is-the-truth-still-ou
t-there.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, April 19, 2017 12:16 PM

Your way out of your league kid. The only way you could ever hope to match wits with me is if I were to fall off the wagon.

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Thursday, April 20, 2017 5:59 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Your way out of your league kid. The only way you could ever hope to match wits with me is if I were to fall off the wagon.

What We Do Best
https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/what-we-do-best/

“What Does Trump Really Want?” has become the great question of our time—the center of an entire cottage industry. Everything Trump says and tweets, no matter how trivial, is instantly transformed into an utterance of major import: fodder for endless, breathless speculation and feverish interpretation. To whom was he sending a message with that tweet? While we’re playing checkers, he’s playing 4-dimensional chess—what’s his next play? What Does Trump’s Refusal to Shake Angela Merkel’s Hand Reveal About His Foreign Policy? Are his desires really the desires of some Other (Putin, Bannon, and in recent days, Kushner)? One question underwrites and energizes all the takes and the commentary: what does Trump want from you? What does he want to call your attention to? What does he want to distract you from? The sheer intellectual labor given over to tracking Trump’s behavior, to say nothing of the amateur Trump Kremlinology, has been exhausting.

But now, at last, Trump has undertaken something familiar and understandable—even comforting—to 21st-century Americans: War. The particulars of this attack will be subjected to various hermeneutics of suspicion (why were the Russians informed beforehand?). Its broader geopolitical significance will provoke debate (what happens next?). And the coverage will fixate overwhelmingly on Trump himself. But even if in every substantive way the question of what Trump wants remains just as opaque the day after the strikes as it did the day before, the simple fact that the strikes occurred is decisive. He acted, and now, at last, we have clarity about what we’re supposed to do. And what we’re supposed to do is adopt a series of postures and justifications about what we feel we need to do, all of which presuppose as an unquestioned necessity the fact of war itself.

Fortunately, we have a lot of practice at this—it’s what we do best. In America the question has long since ceased to be whether or not we should go to war. Instead, we argue over how we go about maintaining and expanding an already endless landscape of wars. For many politicians, this means falling into fine-grained debates over the value of various targets, air strikes versus “boots on the ground,” the question of an “exit strategy,” and so forth. Democrats like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi may express the requisite desire for congressional debate on the conduct of escalation going forward. But they cede any advantage and show their weak hand when they immediately cosign the strikes as “the right thing to do” and a “proportional response.” Republicans like Marco Rubio, for their part, can trot out familiar fearmongering about supposed threats to American soil, echoing Condoleeza Rice circa 2003, while John McCain can appeal to the legitimizing mandate of the 2001 AUMF. Dissenting figures like Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders may point to the disastrous legacy of past US interventions in the Middle East and challenge the constitutionality of the strikes, but their voices will simply offer light counterpoint to the backdrop of a broader symphony of jingoism, cowardice, resignation, and greed.

Media figures, for their part, have already begun to fall in line, too. Last month’s bipartisan yearning to anoint Trump’s horrific State of the Union congressional address as a sign of the President’s finally becoming “presidential” may have been temporarily frustrated by embarrassing news involving Jeff Sessions twenty-four hours later. But now pundits Left and Right can seize this nonpareil opportunity to proclaim Trump suddenly mature, demonstrate their own capacity to see the supposed bigger picture, or just marvel at the beauty of the American war machine. The belief that the office of commander in chief must necessarily activate reservoirs of responsibility and strength in the people who occupy it is a tenet of the American political mythos; what better time to finally see Trump as “pivoting” than when he starts his first war?

As for the rest of us, we know the script, the fights on social media, the debates with family and friends. We’ll get into debates about whether the atrocities of the Assad regime should be “allowed” to stand, endure polemics about whether America should be the world’s policeman, and so forth. We’ll get defensive about which historical wars we would’ve supported, and argue over which hypothetical ones we might oppose. All these things will feel familiar; perhaps, for some, they may even come as a relief.

It might seem ludicrous that only hours after many of us called Trump a Russian spy, a new Hitler, a feckless idiot, a psychopath, a sun-downing, pill-popping monster, we fell in line and rallied behind him and our troops because, after all, he is our President and Presidents lead and the troops must be supported. But we’ve done it all before—in 2001, again in 2003, and in too many other instances to count. War has become a given in American political life, and in the process it has become depoliticized. And thus the bitter irony: for all the many warnings to not “normalize” Trump lest we court disaster, it is his turn to war that will seal his normalization and mark our return to “normalcy,” even if it means ruin. Uncle Sam and Donald Trump do not demand that we wage wars for them; instead, for the sake of a return to normal, we need them to wage war for us.

https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/what-we-do-best/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, April 20, 2017 3:22 PM

Well I wasn't talking to you Second, so I'm not sure why you quoted me before posting the rest of that. But I'll respond. Not for your sake, but for the sake of "The Future" that your posting to.

Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
It might seem ludicrous that only hours after many of us called Trump a Russian spy, a new Hitler, a feckless idiot, a psychopath, a sun-downing, pill-popping monster, we fell in line and rallied behind him and our troops because, after all, he is our President and Presidents lead and the troops must be supported. But we’ve done it all before—in 2001, again in 2003, and in too many other instances to count. War has become a given in American political life, and in the process it has become depoliticized. And thus the bitter irony: for all the many warnings to not “normalize” Trump lest we court disaster, it is his turn to war that will seal his normalization and mark our return to “normalcy,” even if it means ruin. Uncle Sam and Donald Trump do not demand that we wage wars for them; instead, for the sake of a return to normal, we need them to wage war for us.

One of the first smart things I've seen you post here Second, although I don't know where you actually lie on this.

Why has the MSM backed off of Trump when we went back to "normal" and went back to war?

The wars and the massive deficits were the reason I called GWB the worst president we ever had and then Obama came in and put Bush to shame by showing how good he could fuck it all up and everybody applauded him for it. Now that it looks like Trump might do the same, the media is falling in step.

Funny how you and T and G only leave a few token posts around here since the bombs too. Sure... I bet you still have a lot of anti-trump in you. You just have very little new stories to share since the Media is slowly leaving you and falling in step with our new Warlord in Chief.

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Thursday, April 20, 2017 6:35 PM

DREAMTROVE

Normalize Trump is a talking point of the HRC crowd, still pretending that he's a Hitler, abnormal, and a white supremacist, that the PC lingo for what you're not supposed to do with Nazis, meaning, don't talk to them or treat them like people. Or Trump, because he's one of them. Sorry, it's nonsense. Please, normalize Trump, he's pretty normal. Stop pretending he isn't. He's not perfect, in fact, very flawed, but not Hillary level of flawed. We've considered that genocidal loon "normal" for years.

Also, Second, don't pretend the war machine is not in your camp, because I'm looking around me, and that's what I see. You guys are the war machine. I did my best to explain this, and you're still beating the drum. If you want to talk Trump too warlike, we had a lot of threads on that and no one on the left ever came to any of them except a couple of posts from G.

I tire of the talking points and the stopped clock partisans. Trump. No War. Now try to keep Trump in No War, when everyone in Deep State, including HRC, are trying to make Trump=War Criminal, so they can both have the war they're yearning for and then run against it, and then not change course. This is exactly what the dems did with Obama. They demonized Bush, who was very evil, and then ran against the boogeyman, and then just expanded the war. almost immeasurably. But Trump seems to so far be none of what they, and you, say he is. He's no hero, but I could see this guy on the dem ticket, the old dem ticket, you know, that had Carter on it. I don't think it's that far off. I'm not on board, but it's what I might consider, I don't know, normal.

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Saturday, April 22, 2017 2:09 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Normalize Trump is a talking point of the HRC crowd, still pretending that he's a Hitler, abnormal, and a white supremacist, that the PC lingo for what you're not supposed to do with Nazis, meaning, don't talk to them or treat them like people. Or Trump, because he's one of them. Sorry, it's nonsense. Please, normalize Trump, he's pretty normal. Stop pretending he isn't. He's not perfect, in fact, very flawed, but not Hillary level of flawed. We've considered that genocidal loon "normal" for years.

I'll ignore the last two paragraphs of your comment that, removing your extra verbiage and your conspiracy theory, is more of the same old shit that the Democratic Party is no different than the GOP.

I'll hit Trump in the spot where he lives -- New York, and his boldest character trait that he cannot stop displaying -- his eternal lying. NYPD politely calls Trump a lying sack of nuts. The Police Commissioner has made it very plain and clear that Trump is NOT merely flawed. What Trump's Justice Department did is NOT normal. It is not about different values of Republicans and Democrats or the Deep State attempting to ruin Trump. It is about Trump lying his head off, nonstop, to people who don't live in NYC and therefore don't know Trump is lying about the City. I think Trump's lack of good character has infected the Federal departments working for him.

Statement from NYPD Police Commissioner O'Neill
http://nypdnews.com/2017/04/watch-mayor-bill-de-blasio-police-commissi
oner-oneill-host-press-conference/

April 21, 2017

"The Justice Department's release this afternoon stating that New York City is somehow "soft on crime" and continues to see "gang murder after gang murder," demonstrates a willful disregard for the facts.

New York City is experiencing a steady decline in overall crime that includes major reductions in murder and shootings. In fact, 2016 saw the fewest shootings ever in New York City history since record keeping began. Year to date the City is down an additional 17% from last year's record low.

Since 1993, murder has decreased 82%, shootings have decreased 81%, and overall crime has decreased 76%. These are the facts.

Additionally, over the past year the NYPD has hosted dozens of other police departments from across the world to share our best practices of precision policing, which focuses on the most serious criminals."

Police Commissioner James P. O'Neill

Background data

1993:1,927 murders; 5,269 shooting incidents; 430,460 total index crimes

1994:1,582 murders; 4,411 shooting incidents; 377,466 total index crimes

2016: 335 murders; 998 shooting incidents; 101,716 total index crimes

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, April 22, 2017 6:25 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

SECOND

You guys ARE the war machine.

Care to address that?

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Saturday, April 22, 2017 6:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
SECOND

You guys ARE the war machine.

Agreed.

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Saturday, April 22, 2017 7:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
You guys ARE the war machine.- KIKI

Agreed.- SIX

But certainly will not be addressed by any self-respecting Democrat/ liberal.

Hey, I remember back to the Vietnam war days, and the Dems used to be anti-war. What the hell happened???

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.

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Saturday, April 22, 2017 7:34 PM

Obama made war cool again.

I remember being on the side of most Democrats in here back when GWB was president. I was one of his loudest detractors for that and the economy and especially the Patriot Act.

lol... now I'm a Republican or a Nazi or a Communist or whatever incompatible names they throw out depending on their mood that day.

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Saturday, April 22, 2017 8:31 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

I remember being on the side of most Democrats in here back when GWB was president. I was one of his loudest detractors for that and the economy and especially the Patriot Act.

lol... now I'm a Republican or a Nazi or a Communist or whatever incompatible names they throw out depending on their mood that day.

I'm in the same position.

Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 4:54 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr

The latest departure frum reality:

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 9:34 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
SECOND

You guys ARE the war machine.

Care to address that?

I am not happy to address that. I find most of my neighbors' in Texas attitude about war to be unrealistic. They imagine they know what it is without actually having killed anyone, like on Firefly every other episode. Come to think of it, Nathan Fillion and Summer Glau have not actually killed anyone, although they have done it many times on TV. We could ask Nathan and Summer what Mal, Castle, River and Cameron the Terminator's opinion was, but what do the actors really know? Nothing. Here is my informed opinion:

Not all voters here in Texas are Republican, but the majority are. Those voters want “Strong Defense”. What they mean by “Strong” is to constantly threaten foreign enemies and occasionally go to war without too many American dead. You can be certain most Texans won't be personally going to war. Not every last one of them wants “Strong Defense”, but it is knee-jerk with most because there really is no risk for their skin.

The minority voters, the Democrats, also want “Strong Defense”. Not all of them, but more than enough to make any Democratic politician feel safe when voting a big budget for the Dept. of Defense and the CIA and the NSA and . . . There is not much anti-war sentiment in Congress or Texas. If there is a state or Senator that is anti-war, shout out the names! Provide proof. Where is the Sen. George McGovern for this century?

Is there a group of voters declaring they will kill, next election, their Congressman's chances of winning if he votes for a “Strong Defense” budget? It is imaginable yet absurd to think there is a political group defending their anti-war principles with violence, like the example of anti-abortionists who have killed doctors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

The armed forces volunteered to kill for the USA. That is not the same as die for the USA because the wars are unsymmetrical with a kill ratio between enemy dead/wounded and USA dead/wounded of ten, twenty, or a hundred, depending on where and when. You won’t find much anti-war sentiment in the Army. Anybody remember Chelsea Manning? I’m not even sure about Manning being anti-war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#Military_service

The American Generals and Admirals say they are ready for war all the time. Luckily for the USA, the upper echelons are aware of the limitations of “Strong Defense”. Some of them have read about the Vietnam War and even the first Korean War. They know it is better for their careers (followed by their retirement in their early fifties) if they don’t leap into most opportunities for war.

The American Generals and Admirals are protecting us from our worst impulses to go to a major war by giving us minor wars to keep us distracted. If the military isn’t killing somebody every month and making threats every week the taxpayers might think 90% of the money for a “Strong Defense” is being wasted. Congress and Trump do not want them to start thinking carefully or clearly on this subject or any other, do they?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 2:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Congress and Trump do not want them to start thinking carefully or clearly on this subject or any other, do they?

How is that any different than Congress and Obama? How would it have been any different than Congress and Clinton?

Again, I agree with a lot of what you said here, but your problem is that you believe that Democrats are somehow better or have the higher moral ground.

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 4:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
SECOND

You guys ARE the war machine.

Care to address that?
I am not happy to address that. I find most of my neighbors' in Texas attitude about war to be unrealistic. They imagine they know what it is without actually having killed anyone, like on Firefly every other episode. Come to think of it, Nathan Fillion and Summer Glau have not actually killed anyone, although they have done it many times on TV. We could ask Nathan and Summer what Mal, Castle, River and Cameron the Terminator's opinion was, but what do the actors really know? Nothing. Here is my informed opinion:

Not all voters here in Texas are Republican, but the majority are. Those voters want “Strong Defense”. What they mean by “Strong” is to constantly threaten foreign enemies and occasionally go to war without too many American dead. You can be certain most Texans won't be personally going to war. Not every last one of them wants “Strong Defense”, but it is knee-jerk with most because there really is no risk for their skin.

The minority voters, the Democrats, also want “Strong Defense”. Not all of them, but more than enough to make any Democratic politician feel safe when voting a big budget for the Dept. of Defense and the CIA and the NSA and . . . There is not much anti-war sentiment in Congress or Texas. If there is a state or Senator that is anti-war, shout out the names! Provide proof. Where is the Sen. George McGovern for this century?

Is there a group of voters declaring they will kill, next election, their Congressman's chances of winning if he votes for a “Strong Defense” budget? It is imaginable yet absurd to think there is a political group defending their anti-war principles with violence, like the example of anti-abortionists who have killed doctors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

The armed forces volunteered to kill for the USA. That is not the same as die for the USA because the wars are unsymmetrical with a kill ratio between enemy dead/wounded and USA dead/wounded of ten, twenty, or a hundred, depending on where and when. You won’t find much anti-war sentiment in the Army. Anybody remember Chelsea Manning? I’m not even sure about Manning being anti-war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#Military_service

The American Generals and Admirals say they are ready for war all the time. Luckily for the USA, the upper echelons are aware of the limitations of “Strong Defense”. Some of them have read about the Vietnam War and even the first Korean War. They know it is better for their careers (followed by their retirement in their early fifties) if they don’t leap into most opportunities for war.

The American Generals and Admirals are protecting us from our worst impulses to go to a major war by giving us minor wars to keep us distracted. If the military isn’t killing somebody every month and making threats every week the taxpayers might think 90% of the money for a “Strong Defense” is being wasted. Congress and Trump do not want them to start thinking carefully or clearly on this subject or any other, do they?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

I have heard said that almost all General Officers with experience (or a clue) hate war.
If names are needed, I'm fair certain that Louis Burwell Puller Sr. and Dwight David Eisenhower have numerous quotes attributed to them which assert this PoV. Possibly also A.A. Vandegrift. I'm not sure about MacArthur.

Your anecdotes may differ, but most who desire a "strong Defense/military" are following the adage Talk Softly and Carry a BIG STICK. The military is a Big Stick which harkens our enemies to listen carefully when we talk about them keeping their peace, drawing inside their lines, not stepping out of bounds (except when anti-defense idjits like Obama, Clinton, or Carter are elected) - and this is what gives the State Department leverage and power to help prevent war. Wars for us are always following reduction of U.S. Defense spending.

Also, Wisconsin is normally anti-war. Including Senator Tammy Baldwin, for her remaining months in office. I'm fair certain many Northeastern States are anti-war. Hawaii as well. CA, OR, WA. (since most military bases in CA moved out).

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 4:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
You guys ARE the war machine.- KIKI

Agreed.- SIX

But certainly will not be addressed by any self-respecting Democrat/ liberal.

Hey, I remember back to the Vietnam war days, and the Dems used to be anti-war. What the hell happened???

How does your memory reconcile LBJ starting, prolonging, ensuring the loss of the Vietnam War? Plus all of his Libtard supporters?
Or maybe how Nixon ended the War?

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 4:37 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
The latest departure frum reality:

Hey there. You managed to swerve into the truth - Kimmel is always a departure from reality.

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:06 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

How does your memory reconcile LBJ starting, prolonging, ensuring the loss of the Vietnam War? Plus all of his Libtard supporters?
Or maybe how Nixon ended the War?

LBJ did not run for another term because he did not have Libtard supporters and he knew it was because of the way he ran his Vietnam War. The Fall of Saigon was 30 April 1975. The Fall of Nixon was 8 Aug 1974. I'm not seeing how Nixon can get any credit for ending his version of the Vietnam War, since the President was Ford, Nixon's V.P. , when the USA was defeated.

About the dumb-ass LBJ, as stupid a war leader as the other Texan, Bush II: You might be unaware that Texas is very pro-war. It has been that way for two hundred years, never changing. Once LBJ got into the Vietnam War, he couldn't back out because he was an overly sensitive politician who could not tolerate looking bad to his fellow Texans. And Republicans such as Barry Goldwater would call him weak on Communism and the usual mindlessness you get from the GOP. LBJ was not courageous, not wise, but definitely Texan. He didn't even confront Nixon, when he should have, over Vietnam : www.nytimes.com/2016/12/31/opinion/sunday/nixons-vietnam-treachery.htm
l

www.history.com/speeches/lyndon-johnson-expresses-doubts-about-vietnam
-war

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:48 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

SECOND

Despite being called a lot of names, I didn't abandon the principles the dems used to stand for.

The party left me, beginning with Bill and his interventionist romp in Yugoslavia to end the atrocities supposedly done as a policy of Slobodan Milosevic - a man who was later completely exonerated by the ICC of any wrongdoing. So, why was Bill there, again?

Since then, the party triangulated away its positions until, among other things, it became nothing less than the party of full-on neo-ass chicken-hawks, a la Hillary.

I was anti-war with GWB. I bet you were, too. The difference between us, is that I was also anti-war with Obama. But you're OK with it as long as it's a dem starting wars.

So, why is it bad for repubs to be war mongers, but ok for dems?

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I'm willing to reconsider my opinions about Trump if there are actual things of substance that he is guilty of, but I'm not going to sift through thousands of hate articles that are thrown against the wall by the left just to see what sticks.

And that's exactly why I stopped paying attention to SECOND. It was just one pointless hyperventilation after another.

Didja notice that now that the BUT RUSSIA! meme has died down in the press (for now) the hysteria has died down here too? Sheesh. People are so inducible.

One of these days I would love to see a real substantive discussion of Trump. Something significant and insightful, and not just recycled McCarthyism or panicked liberalism/ chickenhawkism. (How liberals bought into war-mongering is beyond me.)

We got started on "whatever happened to to 'America First?'. Now THAT was a good question!

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Didja notice that now that the BUT RUSSIA! meme has died down in the press (for now) the hysteria has died down here too? Sheesh. People are so inducible.

Not only did I notice it, but I commented on it right when it started happening and I called that it would be happening very soon less than a week before it actually started happening.

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Monday, April 24, 2017 8:34 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
SECOND

So, why is it bad for repubs to be war mongers, but ok for dems?

I saw an article this morning about how to herd both Democratic Party and GOP into a less interventionist foreign policy: www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/04/trump_s_newf
ound_militarism_shows_why_we_need_some_kind_of_a_war_tax.html

The obvious shortcoming of the herding techniques suggested in the article is that Congress will need to pass laws that place limits on what Congress can do. Does anyone think Congress would pass a "War Tax"? Every war paid by a special tax would cut down on the number of wars, but how will the American people, not just Congress, be convinced to limit themselves this way?

Another suggestion, only mentioned in the article because it is politically impossible since 90% of Americans (not just Congressmen) are cowards, was bringing back the draft. Americans would think very carefully about war if they might, possibly, have to personally fight in the war they are so eager to see someone else fight for them. But how many Americans would vote for a Congressman who will pass a military draft law?

The article started with a little Trump bashing:

The MOAB that the United States dropped on Afghanistan earlier this month created a massive crater in what was supposed to be the antiwar movement in this country. Before the election, pacifistic leftists like Glenn Greenwald and isolationistic right-wingers like Justin Raimondo convinced themselves that Trump’s contradictory statements on foreign policy meant that he would buck Washington’s bipartisan interventionist policy consensus.

It’s clear that those hopes were, to put it gently, silly. In his first three months, Trump has launched missiles at Syria, dropped a bomb on Afghanistan, and engaged in saber-rattling with a nuclear-armed North Korea. Trump knows little about foreign policy and cares less, but he likes dramatic action and the illusion of manly decisiveness. He’s also easily swayed by whatever happens to air on television while he’s watching. The president seems happy to drop bombs wherever the military establishment suggests as long as he thinks it will make him look good on cable news.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 24, 2017 9:49 AM

A war tax is a terrible idea. Have you ever once in your life seen a tax that wasn't increased over time? Hell... I've been paying for Social Security all of my life and even though I've been told I won't get it when I retire I still have to pay for it to subsidize the retirement of the wealthiest generation of people who EVER LIVED ON THIS PLANET, the baby boomers. If I don't want to pay it? They'll keep the cell warm for me.

We've already been paying for the bullshit wars as it is through inflation and other tricks for decades ever since our money became a fiat currency. All that a "war tax" would do is call a spade a spade, and eventually we'd all just eat that shit sandwich and feel even worse about ourselves that we're funding wars we don't believe in. I already know this is happening, but most stupid people can go about their day without that burden.

If I felt that this would in any way put an end, or at least curb the wars we create, I would be all for it.

I agree that something needs to be done, and I really liked the point they made that since there is no draft we can pretend that it's not happening.

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Monday, April 24, 2017 11:04 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
A war tax is a terrible idea. Have you ever once in your life seen a tax that wasn't increased over time?

It is a terrible idea because this Congress would never pass it.

You are right about the War Tax increasing over the years. First there would be an Afghan War Tax, which gets collected until that war is over, which may never happen. Then there would be an Iraq Tax, which gets collected until all the troops leave and the biggest "embassy" in the world is closed. That is two taxes. Then there would be a small tax on Yemen War because we need to pay for those drones and cruise missiles. That is three. Syrian War Tax or New Korean War Tax. That is four or five taxes, each billed separately on your form 1040, so that Americans never lose track of what Congress's stupid belligerent attitude is costing.

On and on it goes. More wars immediately translates into more taxes. I would rather that Congress can't authorize more bonds being sold to pay for war. I would prefer that Congress is trapped into instantaneously raising taxes the same day as the start of each new war, but Congress would never agree. It is so much easier to borrow. It is so much easier to let things run as they have for decades: the Pentagon decides which wars are worth fighting and then the President rubber stamps his authorization (afraid not to because he would be called a weakling) and Congress does not have to decide if the newest war is worth fighting, leaving it all to the military experts.

The guy who decides what should be destroyed next is H. R. McMaster, not Trump nor Congress. But you never know when a Michael T. Flynn-type nut might replace McMaster.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._R._McMaster

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 24, 2017 11:33 AM

Yep.

Congress will pass a war tax right after they vote to give themselves the same healthcare that we all get with Obamacare.

Maybe then they'll pass a law on campaign finance reform.

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Monday, April 24, 2017 11:55 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
SECOND

So, why is it bad for repubs to be war mongers, but ok for dems?

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
I saw an article this morning about how to herd both Democratic Party and GOP into a less interventionist foreign policy:

You didn't answer the question, SECOND. Were you against GWB's wars? How about Obama's? And why the difference?

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Monday, April 24, 2017 11:58 AM

Haha! Good luck getting a straight answer out of Second.

Incoming link to another vaguely related story to deflect your questions in 3..... 2...... 1....

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Monday, April 24, 2017 1:23 PM