why AI is a bad idea by 1kiki

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why AI is a bad idea

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Thursday, July 7, 2016 14:27
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Saturday, July 2, 2016 1:15 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So I was playing a card game and idly wondering how I could train an AI to see the patterns I was seeing. I see them because - they just LOOK like a pattern to me.

And I think AI would trigger on something different than whatever it is that I am.

So, idly thinking about it some more, we already know about the pitfalls and foibles of the human brain. Its perceptions are unreliable, subject to hallucinations, illusions, and inattention (accommodation and other forms). And human memory is unreliable, context sensitive, and able to be modified by subsequent events AND EVEN THOUGHTS. Attention is easily hijacked by super-fast emotional responses, so that we'll pay attention to one thing, but be blind to another even if it's happening in front of us. Heuristics drive what we consider 'thinking'; which isn't logical but a 'good enough' series of approximations based on culture and aimed at BIOLOGICAL goals (as opposed to problem solving ones - my tale of two villages by a river increasing their birth rates as resources become scarce, because of biological programming to see the problem as a competition with the 'other', rather than a population / resource problem subject to permanent peaceful solution that guarantees a bounty to all, through birth control).

And so on.

My opinion isn't based on what I know about AI, but what I know about humans. The point is that humans are riddled with permanently built-in shortcomings, and so are inferior to AI.

AI would be so far advanced compared to us it would ALWAYS be out of our understanding - which would make it beyond our ability to predict, which would mean it's ALWAYS out of our control. That doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

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Saturday, July 2, 2016 2:38 PM

OONJERAH

"In January 2015, Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, and dozens of
artificial intelligence experts[1] signed an open letter on
artificial intelligence calling for research ... "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_on_Artificial_Intelligence

... Was this already discussed here?

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Saturday, July 2, 2016 2:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

It was brought up elsewhere, but out of laziness I didn't dig it out. But I don't believe anyone posted the link you posted, so thanks, Oonjerah.

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:13 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

What I know about code is that even 'dumb' code is beyond human understanding, because there are too many active feedbacks to even locate them, let alone understand them, or ultimately predict them. What I know about AI (self-modifying code) is that it's already displayed the capacity to learn completely unanticipated solutions outside of what was originally intended.
I'm sure you have some insights about AI. Why not teach us?

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Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:23 PM

OONJERAH

For a primitive example of AI,
Observe our self-driving cars in development.

Somethings this complex are rarely reliable coming out of the gate.
Takes a while to shake out the bugs.

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Saturday, July 2, 2016 7:39 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

I'm sure you have some insights about AI. Why not teach us?

Potentially 856,000 lost jobs in US warehouses:

In June, the CEO divulged that Amazon has been working on artificial intelligence for four years and now devotes more than 1,000 staffers to it. "It's probably hard to overstate how big of an impact it's going to have on society over next 20 years," he said.

About half the human labor in [Amazon’s] warehouses slogs away on simple, arduous tasks that involve moving stuff around—doing work that's the equivalent of restocking shelves in a grocery store. It's strenuous work, with employees often walking more than a dozen miles a day as part of their job. As new robots become available, particularly to e-commerce warehouses with vast inventories and complex packing operations, these are the people whose jobs will be most at risk.

While automation has long been the looming threat to industrial workers, there's reason to think their situation is about to become worse. There were 856,000 USA warehouse workers in May, according to seasonally-adjusted data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Investing in automated distribution centers . . . will come at the expense of an increasing number of Americans who rely on warehouse work to survive.
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-29/how-amazon-triggered-a-robo
t-arms-race

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Sunday, July 3, 2016 11:49 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:

I suggest you learn more about AI then. You keep wanting to make these broad statements - "AI bad/AI good" "This ism Good, this ism Bad." Your approach to understanding fails before you get started.

I'm still waiting for you to teach us your superior understanding.

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Sunday, July 3, 2016 11:55 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Meet the Navy's new sub-hunting drone ship

David Larter, Navy Times 9:57 a.m. EDT April 10, 2016

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/04/08/meet-navys-new-sub-
hunting-drone-ship/82798450/

The Sea Hunter was christened Thursday, and the capabilities are incredible: It's designed to operate at sea for months at a time, travel thousands of miles, all while follow navigation rules and avoiding collisions.

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and the Office of Naval Research are getting ready to take their new toy for a spin in the open ocean. The 130 foot trimaran is designed with a ton of advanced features that the Navy envisions it can use for hunting subs and mines, but could just as easily be used for surveillance.

"Through at-sea testing on a surrogate vessel, ACTUV’s autonomy suite has proven capable of operating the ship in compliance with maritime laws and conventions for safe navigation — including International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, or COLREGS," the release said. "ACTUV accomplishes this feat through advanced software and hardware that serve as automated lookouts, enabling the ship to operate safely near manned maritime vessels in all weather and traffic conditions, day or night."

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Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yes, GSTRING, teach us about AI. I'm sure you know more than Stephen Hawking.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Sunday, July 3, 2016 6:45 PM

ELVISCHRIST

http://www.popsci.com/ai-pilot-beats-air-combat-expert-in-dogfight

Welcome Skynet!

BTW, G saying that you're going in with a clear bias doesn't mean he or she has some superior training, knowledge, or understanding than you do, only that you're going in with a set of ideas you're looking for confirmation of.

You see patterns, as you've said. So if you're prepping your brain to see patterns that confirm your bias, you're probably going to see them. Nobody is saying you're not capable of understanding, just that you've already set yourself back before the game's even started.

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Sunday, July 3, 2016 10:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I suggest you learn more about AI then. You keep wanting to make these broad statements - "AI bad/AI good" "This ism Good, this ism Bad." Your approach to understanding fails before you get started.- GSTRING

I'm still waiting for you to teach us your superior understanding.- KIKI

Most people would learn something about their subject before declaring it bad. I guess you don't understand the value of research.-GSTRING

Well, thanks to hubby's profession I know people who work on quantum computing and who are true experts, and I have the benefit of their experience. They tend to echo what Stephen Hawking said, and also what KIKI said: there are great risks attached to AI.

Quote:
As I said about Isms - it's not so much the Ism as the people enforcing it and the people living in it. Like so many things, it comes down to people. Looks like Stephen Hawking disagrees with you about AI and agrees with me about people:

"Hawking has argued superintelligent artificial intelligence could be pivotal in steering humanity's fate, stating that "the potential benefits are huge... Success in creating AI would be the biggest event in human history. It might also be the last, unless we learn how to avoid the risks."

You know, I realize that you love to dismiss anything that KIKI and I post. Apparently, you'll even disregard anything that Stephen Hawking has said, if it at all parallels anything KIKI might have posted.

So, since you fancy yourself an expert, why don't you detail for us what THE RISKS are, and how we might avoid them. Go listen to a few TED talks if you need to catch up.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Sunday, July 3, 2016 11:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Most people would learn something about their subject before declaring it bad."

Ahem. I HAVE. And while I freely admit I'm no expert, I know enough to see that the problem is, what I know today isn't going to be true tomorrow.

So when I think about AI in a human world, I consider something that isn't going to change for a few ten-thousand years - humans. And what we know about humans is that they're inherently faulty, for all the reasons I listed above - AND MORE. And while *a* human might possibly outdo AI for a short while, sooner or later the human's attention will lapse, memory will fail, logic will be overcome by emotion, or some other faltering. And the several humans, or the many humans, will face the same relentless, unfaltering abilities of AI.

Now, AI may not be inherently evil. But it's unpredictable. And that makes it a problem.

BTW, in my response to you, I hid this in black font, b/c I was curious what you would say if I withheld some things. You didn't disappoint, completely unable to add to the topic, but certainly quick on the personal attack.

"What I know about code is that even 'dumb' code is beyond human understanding, because there are too many active feedbacks to even locate them, let alone understand them, or ultimately predict them. What I know about AI (self-modifying code) is that it's already displayed the capacity to learn completely unanticipated solutions outside* of what was originally intended."

But go ahead. You come to the topic with a superior attitude. Let us see why.

* https://techcrunch.com/2013/04/14/nes-robot/
Programmer Creates An AI To (Not Quite) Beat NES Games
Programmer and CMU PhD Tom Murphy created a function to “beat” NES games by watching the score. When the computer did things that raised the score it would learn how to reproduce them again and again, resulting, ultimately, in what amounts to a Super Mario Brothers-playing robot. ... Murphy ran a few other games through it, including Tetris, and found that the program would eventually just pause itself rather than continue playing and lose ...

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Monday, July 4, 2016 10:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, you think that you're expert enough to dispute someone else's opinion, in fact several someone else's.

As you know, I dispute A LOT of opinions. OTOH, I'm always ready to back up my disputations! So do your research, and come back with your informed opinion, as opposed to the uniformed opinion (and your visceral hatred) that you usually show up with.

I suppose the lesson of this thread (for you) is that when you have nothing to say, the best option is to STFU.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, July 5, 2016 7:19 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

I read a recent article that Moore’s Law is not feeling well. Actually it said Moore’s Law Is Dead. Now What? The article doesn’t dare be so pessimistic to outright declare that the next 40 years will not see 20 more doublings to a million times more transistors per chip area. But the article does say The continual cramming of more silicon transistors onto chips, known as Moore’s Law, has been the feedstock of exuberant innovation in computing. Now it looks to be slowing to a halt.

“We have to ask, is this going to be a problem for areas like mobile devices, data centers, and self-driving cars?” says Thomas Wenisch, an assistant professor at the University of Michigan. “I think yes, but on different timescales.”
www.technologyreview.com/s/601441/moores-law-is-dead-now-what/

In my opinion there are brilliant engineers and programmers who will grow fabulously wealthy and destroy part of humanity with computer technology as it exists now. Anybody remember Zyklon B? Brilliant technology. Remember long range bombers? Brilliant and killed millions. Automobiles? Killed millions. Tobacco? Millions. Alcohol? Millions dead from a simple technology. So why not let AI kill a few?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B#Corporate_structure_and_marketi
ng

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Tuesday, July 5, 2016 11:26 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking signed the AI Warning letter many years after the TV show Person of Interest premiered in 2011. It is likely that this show motivated them to sign the letter more than their own calm intellectualizing.

There were two AIs on Person of Interest and many assassinations ordered by one AI. The show ended two weeks ago on June 21, 2016, after 103 episodes and 5 seasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_Interest_(TV_series)#The_Machi
ne

www.deviantart.com/art/Serenity-Reality-LG-619384882

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Wednesday, July 6, 2016 5:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
One of the lessons of this thread is Kiki forms opinions based on what she thinks she already knows.

I'm sorry, but is this supposed to be a point? If you shouldn't form an opinion on what you think you know, what SHOULD you form an opinion on? What you DON'T know??? Well, at least you do follow your own logic: Your opinions are based on what you don't know.

Okay, here's the point you're trying to make: You're trying to say something about "confirmation bias". It's the problem of looking for something that you already recognize or believe. If anyone exhibits confirmation bias, it's you and your two friends. Let me give you a piece of evidence that flies in the face of your beliefs: India and Pakistan just joined the SCO. Add Israel, Syria, and Turkey which just asked to join. Now tell me, son, where does that fit in the pantheon of your so-called unbiased knowledge?

Quote:
Another one is you 2 can't stand it when people don't agree with you - out come the insults and the "how dare you!" rants.

Uh huh. Shall I dredge up for you all of the insults that you've liberally spewed the board with? My god, every time I post something you don't know... which is most of the time ... your go-to response is insult. I'm just giving you a taste of your own medicine son.

Quote:
Bored now.

'Bye. Don't come back unless you have something interesting to say.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Wednesday, July 6, 2016 7:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
One of the lessons of this thread is Kiki forms opinions based on what she thinks she already knows.
I'm sorry, but is this supposed to be a point? If you shouldn't form an opinion on what you think you know, what SHOULD you form an opinion on? What you DON'T know??? Well, at least you do follow your own logic: Your opinions are based on what you don't know.

Actually, it's a thing we call learning. It's a way of adding knowledge to what we already know and in so doing, we can actually grow our understanding of a subject or topic. I know this will sound a bit radical, but I think we should try and educate ourselves on a topic before we have opinions. Don't get me wrong. People can voice their opinions all they want about things they have no direct, observable knowledge of. I mean, if that weren't the case we'd have so few of your posts to be amused by.

Um, I continue to learn. But in order to learn, one must be able to observe events without bias, which is something you seem incapable of. You troll Twitter for small details which confirm your biases, and reject anything that contradicts your already-formed opinions.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Thursday, July 7, 2016 1:13 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr

We dont do a good job uv governing ourselvez so hopefully Collosus happenz befor Skynet.

About that - Kind uv odd that they havent remade Colossus, The Forbin Project yet. Great books, Good movie. With Hollywood desperately digging thru old moviez and TV showz for stuff to make, I'd think this woud hav been dun back wen T2 busted a block.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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