Thanks for all the fish
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 02:17
VIEWED: 6865
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Yanno how the parent says I'm not angry, I'm disappointed?
Well, that's not me. I'm both disappointed AND angry.
I don't expect to be believed. In fact, I would be rather disturbed if you all just took my word for events that I post about.
However, I would hope that you liberals would give me enough credit to at least look things up for yourselves. What I've discovered from your recent behavior, however, is that instead of looking at the evidence as it stands you seem to think that if you can argue with ME you'll somehow make the facts "go away". There is hardly a smidgen of objectivity or intellectual honesty to share amongst yourselves.
I'm not your intellectual errand-boy, to be finding facts and information that you're either too lazy or too propagandized to look up for yourselves. I'm not your political whipping-boy either. If you want to keep an eye on events, you have to put in SOME effort yourselves. Don't expect to stay undisturbed in your comfy-cozy cocoon and still be able to perceive truth, because yanno what? The truth is sometimes hard, and it often runs counter to the narrative that we like to tell ourselves. So bird-dog the truth yourselves, or stay uninformed; it's on you-
not me.
If you think this is a giant FU, you're right. If you think it's undeserved, you're wrong.
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Signy, there's a LOT of fighting these days, and not just here- most every site I frequent has gone all personality attack as opposed to fact/subject debate. I for one truly appreciate what you present & discuss here. You were only wrong on one issue once, and I don't recall what that was, but I'm guessing you HAD to be wrong at least once.
I think the whole fucking world is one big bowl of snot & stress now. And it's seeping into these sites too.
I had to take a vacation from here- sounds like you may need a short one yourself.
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I've PMed back and forth with Signy.
It's not the right wing here that's the problem.
It's the liberals who are as firmly entrenched in their own propaganda as jongsy and rappy are in theirs. After having repeatedly brought to people's attention over the years that the stories they like to believe aren't true, the Ukraine topic was just the last straw.
When shown actual photos that did prove that the narrative they were so heavily invested in was flat out wrong (ie ANYthing anti-Russian) did they investigate? Check out various sources? Sift out facts? No. They said the photos were too obscure to interpret. Shrugged them off. Said she was mentally unbalanced. Called her PN.
I've been saying to her that maybe the difference between the right wing and the liberals was that while the right wing was totally resistant to facts, perhaps liberals could be moved with more exposure.
But I sense that while some people may be moved to admit that perhaps some things that occurred in Odessa they originally believed were misrepresented, the total narrative hasn't changed. At best they might say it's an unfortunate difference of opinion in The Ukraine, rather than a $5B effort on the part of the US to destabilize and overthrow a democratically elected government using Svoboda boots on the ground. Because, despite all the evidence, the US must really just be an innocent force for good just trying to help out democracy.
I'll truly miss Signy. Her departure was one she was considering for a long time, and which I tried to gently discourage her from. But she is fact-driven if nothing else. And the fact is that facts don't count here. Not with the right wing, and not with the liberals either.
Fwiw, her posts are, were, the main reason I come here anymore.
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Hey Siggy, try not to let the door hit you on the way out!
And remember ...
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hate to disappoint you Jongssie, but this is not farewell. I will continue to bring facts and links to the board, but I'm sure not going to argue about them, so you'll see a lot less of me.
KIKI nailed it. This isn't about you. Because when you have to descend to posting picture of fat women, I figure you've reached the end of your (very) limited mental and emotional capacities.
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Oh cool.
I was thinking I was losing good info and that there was no reason to come here anymore.
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've PMed back and forth with Signy.
It's not the right wing here that's the problem.
It's the liberals who are as firmly entrenched in their own propaganda as jongsy and rappy are in theirs. After having repeatedly brought to people's attention over the years that the stories they like to believe aren't true, the Ukraine topic was just the last straw.
Coming from you two that is to damn funny.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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So, do you dispute the many minutes of video signy posted?
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, do you dispute the many minutes of video signy posted?
That the video's show pro-Ukrainian forcing pro-Russian protesters into the building and throwing Molotov cocktails, no I don't dispute that.
You want to draw other conclusions from those video's I might.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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And shooting at them. Can't forget that. Just a smattering of your posts. Rather than check out the FACTS, you chose to defend your preferred propaganda and attack Signy and the sources. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57980 This: "Kiev Neo-Nazis shoot and club people escaping from burning building...and INSIDE ... raped, shot, doused with flammables and set on fire. Pictures (WARNING) and proof." was true. And you turned out to be wrong.
Whatever. I'm not going to bother with you either.
SIGNYM is starting to go the way of Pirate News.
Funny that both sites you linked to ties to one side of this crisis. RT stands for Russia Today, which has Michel Chossudovsky on as commentator all the time. Chossudavsky runs Centre for Research on Globalisation.
I'm not going to claim the pictures were retouched. They however do not prove what you claim. We know people died in that fire, however how it started and how thos people dies is not proven by those pictures. If it was that clear no one would have have to add arrows and circles and captions to them.
You seem to have taken a side in this and are unable to move from it. Don't you get that you are posting a pro-Russian naritive from pro-Russian websites? Does that seem a litte off to you?
The pictures can tell different stories depending on who is telling them. There was no doubt a fire and those people died. Those pictures tell us that, but they don't tell us a great many of the other things RT and you are claiming they do.
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Wow, I guess I've missed a lot. None of that pertains to me, must be something from some of the many, many threads I no longer bother to read. I don't bother to read a lot of threads because they're about stuff I already know and about which I have nothing to contribute. I don't spend much time here anymore.
Just wanted to pop in and say hey, ho, those are a lot of nasty, sweeping statements, none of which has anything to do with THIS "liberal", thank you very much. I tend to investigate anything I'm interested enough in that I find here to see what I think of it, so I kind of resent some of what you wrote.
Just sad to read this thread, that's all.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
hate to disappoint you Jongssie, but this is not farewell. I will continue to bring facts and links to the board, but I'm sure not going to argue about them, so you'll see a lot less of me.
Well just dayum.
" Thanks for all the fish " is suppose to imply that you're LEAVING.
Even I know that !
Saying you're NOT leaving, and simply 'thanks for the fish'... you're doing it all wrong !
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And shooting at them. Can't forget that. Just a smattering of your posts. Rather than check out the FACTS, you chose to defend your preferred propaganda and attack Signy and the sources. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57980 And you turned out to be wrong.
Please save me the "I'm not going to bother with you" bullshit. You've said that to Rappy and others many times but you still respond to them.
As for being proven wrong were did that happen? Signym's post was making a lot of claims about what happened in the building and how those people died. Those pictures don't prove those things.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
hate to disappoint you Jongssie, but this is not farewell. I will continue to bring facts and links to the board, but I'm sure not going to argue about them, so you'll see a lot less of me.
Well just dayum.
" Thanks for all the fish " is suppose to imply that you're LEAVING.
Even I know that !
Saying you're NOT leaving, and simply 'thanks for the fish'... you're doing it all wrong !
Right, but in her original hissy rant she ...
1) Says 'fuck you' to her LIBERAL friends.
2) Tells her LIBERAL friends they're all lazy idiots with no "intellectual honesty".
3) States that she is the ONLY ONE who knows the facts, and she is the ONLY ONE who can be right about everything.
Maybe now some of those same LIBERAL friends will finally see what a delusional egomaniac she is by her own words....
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno how the parent says I'm not angry, I'm disappointed?
Well, that's not me. I'm both disappointed AND angry.
I don't expect to be believed. In fact, I would be rather disturbed if you all just took my word for events that I post about.
However, I would hope that you liberals would give me enough credit to at least look things up for yourselves. What I've discovered from your recent behavior, however, is that instead of looking at the evidence as it stands you seem to think that if you can argue with ME you'll somehow make the facts "go away". There is hardly a smidgen of objectivity or intellectual honesty to share amongst yourselves.
I'm not your intellectual errand-boy, to be finding facts and information that you're either too lazy or too propagandized to look up for yourselves. I'm not your political whipping-boy either. If you want to keep an eye on events, you have to put in SOME effort yourselves. Don't expect to stay undisturbed in your comfy-cozy cocoon and still be able to perceive truth, because yanno what? The truth is sometimes hard, and it often runs counter to the narrative that we like to tell ourselves. So bird-dog the truth yourselves, or stay uninformed; it's on you-
not me.
If you think this is a giant FU, you're right. If you think it's undeserved, you're wrong.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Right, but in her original hissy rant she ...
1) Says 'fuck you' to her LIBERAL friends.
2) Tells her LIBERAL friends they're all lazy idiots with no "intellectual honesty".
3) States that she is the ONLY ONE who knows the facts, and she is the ONLY ONE who can be right about everything.
Maybe now some of those same LIBERAL friends will finally see what a delusional egomaniac she is by her own words....
The worst part ? I never got to choose a side before she went all ookie-balookie.
Still, fun to watch.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The worst part ? I never got to choose side before she went all ookie-balookie.
Still, fun to watch.
You put your right foot in
You put your right foot out
You put your right foot in
And you shake it all about
You do the Ookie-Balookie and you turn yourself around
That's what it's all about.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno how the parent says I'm not angry, I'm disappointed?
Well, that's not me. I'm both disappointed AND angry.
I don't expect to be believed. In fact, I would be rather disturbed if you all just took my word for events that I post about.
However, I would hope that you liberals would give me enough credit to at least look things up for yourselves. What I've discovered from your recent behavior, however, is that instead of looking at the evidence as it stands you seem to think that if you can argue with ME you'll somehow make the facts "go away". There is hardly a smidgen of objectivity or intellectual honesty to share amongst yourselves.
You still don't get it, but I'm done trying to explain. I'm rapidly losing interest in you, and unlike you with Rappy, that means I actually will stop the dance.
Really, I have not been as interested in Ukraine as much as in your bizarre behavior. Your personality has undergone quite a shift. And the way you've reacted to this confirms it: big emotion, inability to *grok* anyone not fully convinced by you, and finally taking your ball and going off in a snit. Yes, I understand you're not leaving the site, but you certainly want everyone to know that you're giving up on "discussing." Seems a weird thing to do in RWEDiscussions, hey? Kind'a like what the religiosos did when their beliefs were put to discussion, hey?
Quote:
If you think this is a giant FU, you're right. If you think it's undeserved, you're wrong.
If you think that bothers me, you're assuming that I'm as emotionally invested in this thing as you are. Sorry to disappoint. I found you interesting, entertaining, and informative in your prior personality, but this new one.... bleh.
One more before I move on: you really ought to not take the internet so seriously. We're not the U.N. here. We make no policies. The piddly info shouted over by the piddly few of us who still show up on occasion (and there certainly are less human beings involved in RWED than there are screennames) have very little effect on anything in the RW.
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Quote:The GOOD news!
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
hate to disappoint you Jongssie, but this is not farewell.
Quote:The BAD news.
I will continue to bring facts and links to the board, but I'm sure not going to argue about them, so you'll see a lot less of me.
Just for the record, posting shit like PN comparisons or fat girl pictures pretty much says what needs to be said by the POSTER themselves about THEM.
IE: I can't argue coherently.
Yeah, some Libs can be just as dense as any Con. Stupid is equal opportunity.
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Quote:LOL! That's really funny. And always a good way to improve communication: make broad sweeping statements of blame and blindly throw a label on folks.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
It's not the right wing here that's the problem.
It's the liberals who are as firmly entrenched in their own propaganda as jongsy and rappy are in theirs. After having repeatedly brought to people's attention over the years that the stories they like to believe aren't true, the Ukraine topic was just the last straw.
Quote:Oooooh. "actual" photos! That must be absolute proof that everything Sig says absolutely must be true!!! /sheesh
When shown actual photos that did prove that the narrative they were so heavily invested in was flat out wrong (ie ANYthing anti-Russian) did they investigate? Check out various sources? Sift out facts? No. They said the photos were too obscure to interpret. Shrugged them off. Said she was mentally unbalanced. Called her PN.
Now, I didn't call her PN, but everything else you're saying seems aimed at me. I'm operating under that assumption, so correct me if you didn't mean me.
If you did: LOL! again that you think I'm anti-Russian. Like I said, I don't have a side here. I don't know enough about it to claim a side, and I don't believe that anything I find on YOUtube or biased governmental news sites or biased media news sites is going to make me an infallible expert on a war on the other side of the world.
I'm a little disappointed that sig thinks this is possible, but she's been completely one-sided from the get-go. I don't think she's pro-Russian, I think her new personality is gung-ho to hate on every American policy, and she hates the Western media enough to take any side against it.
Hating the media: cool! Me too. Jumping blindly onto any other side: not my cuppa. And yes, blindly. I recall the first thread she started about this that was all into RT because sure, they may be biased but the West is REALLY biased so RT must be telling the truth.
OK, this has been fun. Really. One of the most interesting things about this site is the chance to explore you bizarre figments of the internet virtual reality. Whether you're "real" people or invented personalities, you can be entertaining for short stints here and there.
But now I'm done with this one and the Bruins are on. Go B's!
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Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
One more before I move on: you really ought to not take the internet so seriously. We're the U.N. here. We make no policies.
Some times we react a little worse to stuff when we're under stress. I know I do, that why I took a break from here. And I'll take another when I need to. But yeah, this is just a discussion group with a few hardcore anti-whatevers floating about, nothing to lose you pretty floral bonnet over.
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"After having repeatedly brought to people's attention over the years that the stories they like to believe aren't true" // "always a good way to improve communication: make broad sweeping statements of blame and labeling"
signy provided a list, checkmark whichever applies
"Oooooh. "actual" photos! That must be absolute proof that everything Sig says absolutely must be true!!! /sheesh"
Not what I posted.
"everything else you're saying seems aimed at me"
Not even close. There's a whole list of posters who claim to be liberal, or at least fact-oriented and reasonable - who didn't seem to want to be bothered with checking out the facts, or even discussing what might be factual before they dismissed it all as crazy-russian-biased-abnormal-pn stuff, and of course there are the ones who claim to be fact-based who stayed away in droves and couldn't be bothered at all. I'm sorry if you feel singled out. I didn't have you specifically in mind.
"I think her new personality is gung-ho to hate on every American policy ..."
Well, there's an extended list both domestic and foreign to hate. Indefinite detention? 24/7 spying on the US? Kettling Occupy? Prosecuting whistle-blowers? Drone murders? Backing the Egyptian army? Trying to arrange a UN or at least NATO attack on Syria through bogus chemical attack claims? Do any of these strike a chord?
"Jumping blindly onto any other side ..."
Not what Signy did. But if multiple posts from different sources showing you the narrative you got in the western news with your breakfast was all slanted one way didn't convince you there is a WRONG side here - what would it take?
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Quote:My car needs a new nose panel, the one it has is missing a piece on the right side (a true "what was that?" moment), the gas tank needs a new band, the cockpit fan is busted, the handle on the window-roll-up thing keeps fallin' off...
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
I think her new personality is gung-ho to hate on every American policy
Hey, I LOVE my car, but that don't stop me from realizin' all what dearly needs to be fixed on her.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"After having repeatedly brought to people's attention over the years that the stories they like to believe aren't true" // "always a good way to improve communication: make broad sweeping statements of blame and labeling"
signy provided a list, checkmark whichever applies
You lost me. I meant you blaming "liberals." Which is really funny, but not surprising. Sig has done a whole helluva lot to keep Rappy alive and wriggling on this site: she's always been up to engaging him, giving him ultimatums year after year after year, despite his obvious... um... shortcomings. And yet this one exchange with liberals who didn't bow to her wisdom made her throw in the towel.
Whatever. She should just have fun dancing with Rap. It seems to be what she likes.
Quote:
"Oooooh. "actual" photos! That must be absolute proof that everything Sig says absolutely must be true!!! /sheesh"
Not what I posted.
You posted that she "posted actual photos that did prove that the narrative they were so heavily invested in was flat out wrong (ie ANYTHING anti-Russian)
She posted photos so she is right and everyone is wrong. That's what you said. Your words. Same thing she is saying: that what she posts is all FACT though it comes from YOUtube and RT and every other damned source that I do not take to be fact.
Hey - I know some other posters who believe everything they post to be FACT.
Quote:
"everything else you're saying seems aimed at me"
Not even close. There's a whole list of posters who claim to be liberal, or at least fact-oriented and reasonable - who didn't seem to want to be bothered with checking out the facts, or even discussing what might be factual before they dismissed it all as crazy-russian-biased-abnormal-pn stuff, and of course there are the ones who claim to be fact-based who stayed away in droves and couldn't be bothered at all. I'm sorry if you feel singled out. I didn't have you specifically in mind.
OK, thanks. Still, I don't see that anyone went all out anti-Russia. I think what people objected to (certainly, what I objected to) was this assumption that the horror of the photos was slam-dunk proof of all kinds of other stuff. You are still saying that. "Actual photos... prove.. anti-Russia... is flat out wrong."
Quote:
"I think her new personality is gung-ho to hate on every American policy ..."
Well, there's an extended list both domestic and foreign to hate. Indefinite detention? 24/7 spying on the US? Kettling Occupy? Prosecuting whistle-blowers? Drone murders? Backing the Egyptian army? Trying to arrange a UN or at least NATO attack on Syria through bogus chemical attack claims? Do any of these strike a chord?
yeah. Sure. Bad stuff. No argument. I hate it too.
The USA being wrong doesn't make someone else right. Not a zero sum game here.
Quote:
"Jumping blindly onto any other side ..."
Not what Signy did. But if multiple posts from different sources showing you the narrative you got in the western news with your breakfast was all slanted one way didn't convince you there is a WRONG side here - what would it take?
You don't know me at all if you think I have western news with my breakfast. But thank you for showing me that you operate on such blind assumptions. Reminds me that any criticism you aim my way is completely meaningless, as you have no idea who I am. You're just fighting some figment of your own internet virtual reality. Have fun with that!
Bruins up 1-0 after 1 period. Gotta make dinner before period 2 starts, with B's on the power play...
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Power play GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!!!!!!!
B's up 2-0. :)
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Power play GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!!!!!!!
B's up 3-0. :) :) :)
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OK - I was trying to be a little literary with "with your breakfast" - it wasn't meant to be literal. It implied the morning newspaper people used to read as they ate breakfast in a bygone era - which hardly anyone gets anymore, am radio-alarm, evening tv news ... the www for all you younger folk - the general stream of commonly available media people access to feel informed.
Where did I say she was right about everything and everyone else was wrong (about everything)?
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:My car needs a new nose panel, the one it has is missing a piece on the right side (a true "what was that?" moment), the gas tank needs a new band, the cockpit fan is busted, the handle on the window-roll-up thing keeps fallin' off...
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
I think her new personality is gung-ho to hate on every American policy
Hey, I LOVE my car, but that don't stop me from realizin' all what dearly needs to be fixed on her.
Chris, you really are one of the more priceless posters here.
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Okay, after reading all this, I can't resist popping in to ask a question. I'm not about to read what I've kind of guessed is the thread that started Sig going off the rails, but since Sig started this thread, and did so as a way to say FU to people here, I'm not going to start a new thread to ask my question, I'll do it here.
My question is this: When the map stuff came up, about Rap being in Georgia, etc., I played with the FFF "Browncoat Map" for a bit. Found it fascinating; most people were exactly where I'd made note they said they were. The one that had me saying "huh", and I asked about it at the time, was Sig and Kiki. I never got an answer, from them or anyone else.
If you go to the "Browncoats Map" on FFF, and look in the Los Angeles area, you see this:
If you click on that "12", you get a close-up view. Putting the cursor over each flag brings up a name. Here are the two which fascinated me:
Now, in the past Kiki has written that she lives in "San Dimas", which is North of the L.A. area, and Sig wrote she lived "near Long Beach". Neither of those places is near what is shown on the map. And there's TWELVE supposed "Browncoats" in that one "block" on the map. The other names are
VEEJER
YT
TONYP
IANR
MOJAVE
CAPTAINHAMMER
ANOTHERCOATOFBROWN
DRAGONWINE
PLATONIST
So I've found myself wondering; do we have a whole bunch of sockpuppets at work here, or what? Certainly, as I wrote at the time, where I'm flagged on that map is close to where I live, but about three miles East, so it's not absolutely accurate for me (others might check and see how close it is for them). Everyone I looked up at the time was at least in the same CITY as they'd previously written they were.
But twelve Browncoats in one block, and Sig and Kiki being flagged right next to one another and quite a ways away from where they claim they live? While Long Beach isn't that far from where they're flagged in L.A. (and NewOldBrowcoat is right there in Long Beach, as he's always said, by the way), San Dimas is quite a ways North of the L.A. area…
All this is, of course, totally unimportant. But Sig going off the rails in this thread, as it certainly seems she has, and Kiki being so intent on defending her, made me think back to all this. So, having nothing better to do for a few minutes, never having forgotten my curiosity about finding this before, and given the content of this thread, I just thought I'd toss it out there in case anyone else is interested.
Oh, and I didn't miss Kiki's "and of course there are the ones who claim to be fact-based who stayed away in droves and couldn't be bothered at all". Dunno if that's aimed at me or not, but I found it interesting when I compared it to--I may be wrong, but I BELIEVE Signy--railing on me for "refusing" to answer a question from her at least twice, which questions happened to be in threads I'd never even read. To both I say, just once, that the day I feel COMPELLED to read and respond to any specific thread on FFF is the day I truly DO throw in the towel! I read what looks interesting to me, and don't even respond to most of that…anyone who takes this place that seriously, well, has serious problems.
…and I'm off to more interesting, worthwhile pursuits… Enjoy.
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Hmmmm, I seem to have missed a lot.
Prolly a good thing
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Okay, after reading all this, I can't resist popping in to ask a question. I'm not about to read what I've kind of guessed is the thread that started Sig going off the rails, but since Sig started this thread, and did so as a way to say FU to people here, I'm not going to start a new thread to ask my question, I'll do it here.
My question is this: When the map stuff came up, about Rap being in Georgia, etc., I played with the FFF "Browncoat Map" for a bit. Found it fascinating; most people were exactly where I'd made note they said they were. The one that had me saying "huh", and I asked about it at the time, was Sig and Kiki. I never got an answer, from them or anyone else.
If you go to the "Browncoats Map" on FFF, and look in the Los Angeles area, you see this:
If you click on that "12", you get a close-up view. Putting the cursor over each flag brings up a name. Here are the two which fascinated me:
Now, in the past Kiki has written that she lives in "San Dimas", which is North of the L.A. area, and Sig wrote she lived "near Long Beach". Neither of those places is near what is shown on the map. And there's TWELVE supposed "Browncoats" in that one "block" on the map. The other names are
VEEJER
YT
TONYP
IANR
MOJAVE
CAPTAINHAMMER
ANOTHERCOATOFBROWN
DRAGONWINE
PLATONIST
So I've found myself wondering; do we have a whole bunch of sockpuppets at work here, or what? Certainly, as I wrote at the time, where I'm flagged on that map is close to where I live, but about three miles East, so it's not absolutely accurate for me (others might check and see how close it is for them). Everyone I looked up at the time was at least in the same CITY as they'd previously written they were.
But twelve Browncoats in one block, and Sig and Kiki being flagged right next to one another and quite a ways away from where they claim they live? While Long Beach isn't that far from where they're flagged in L.A. (and NewOldBrowcoat is right there in Long Beach, as he's always said, by the way), San Dimas is quite a ways North of the L.A. area…
All this is, of course, totally unimportant. But Sig going off the rails in this thread, as it certainly seems she has, and Kiki being so intent on defending her, made me think back to all this. So, having nothing better to do for a few minutes, never having forgotten my curiosity about finding this before, and given the content of this thread, I just thought I'd toss it out there in case anyone else is interested.
Oh, and I didn't miss Kiki's "and of course there are the ones who claim to be fact-based who stayed away in droves and couldn't be bothered at all". Dunno if that's aimed at me or not, but I found it interesting when I compared it to--I may be wrong, but I BELIEVE Signy--railing on me for "refusing" to answer a question from her at least twice, which questions happened to be in threads I'd never even read. To both I say, just once, that the day I feel COMPELLED to read and respond to any specific thread on FFF is the day I truly DO throw in the towel! I read what looks interesting to me, and don't even respond to most of that…anyone who takes this place that seriously, well, has serious problems.
…and I'm off to more interesting, worthwhile pursuits… Enjoy.
the maps are not accurate. I've checked out where I am supposed to live and, although in the same city, is nowhere close. I dont know how they determine the exact location, but m
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Niki
FWIW If you think I'm a sock-puppet then of course you'll mistrust whatever I post. And if you don't then I don't need to answer your accusation. That IS an accusation - right?
But for the record - I'm not anyone's sock-puppet, nor do I have any. I live in San Dimas. And I have no idea where that place is that's pictured, or who those posters are.
Believe what you will.
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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I'm also listed as living in a tree with 3 other posters that I know nothing about.
I don't think ikiki is signy's sockpuppet. I mean why would they bother?
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
OK - I was trying to be a little literary with "with your breakfast" - it wasn't meant to be literal. It implied the morning newspaper people used to read as they ate breakfast in a bygone era - which hardly anyone gets anymore, am radio-alarm, evening tv news ... the www for all you younger folk - the general stream of commonly available media people access to to feel informed.
Yeah, duh. Your implied meaning is that I am led by the nose by the Western media. Your implied meaning -- and also your explicitly state meaning in this thread -- is that the only reason I doubt Sig's conclusions is that I am a blind sheepy slave to Western media.
Combined with Sig's input on this issue, this is what I'm hearing from you folks: if I want to prove I'm not a slave to the Western media, I should be a slave to RT, etc.
Cool. All right then.
ETA: Just how young do you think I am? "You younger folk..." Really. Not so much.
Quote:
Where did I say she was right about everything and everyone else was wrong (about everything)?
OK, by "everything" I mean everything in the Ukraine story.
Again. Third time. You said: "When shown actual photos that did prove that the narrative they were so heavily invested in was flat out wrong (ie ANYthing anti-Russian) did they investigate?"
Fourth time: "the narrative they [those anti-Russian RWED "liberals"] were so heavily invested in was PROVE(D) FLAT OUT WRONG"
The photos showed a few things, not "everything." "Everything" refers to what you call "the narrative," the one that you say Sig is right about and the "liberals" are wrong about, though I still haven't seen where anyone posted any kind of anti-Russian narrative. Just a refusal to bow to sig.
You know, which is why she loves to dance with Rap. He makes her so very right so very always. I guess she's gotten used to that.
3-1 starting the 3rd...
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Gorrammit, Sig, I'm gonna miss your presence. Your stuff is ALWAYS worth reading. I may not agree on some issues or concerns, but you're always thought provoking.
As to the Ukraine thing, I've stayed out of that one mostly. I'm still an old school anti-Russia guy: I see Putin as being as aggressive and imperialist as Hitler, only using a sneakier technique, and the Ukrainian insurgent government as supporting freer free choice, as between the EU and Russia. And I remember the old Cold War days, when anybody who could, wanted to get out of the USSR. While pragmatically, I don't see much the USA can do, without starting WW 3. And I'm not suggesting that there have not been abuses and atrocities on both sides.
So I don't know, and I've tried to stay out: it's too far away, and of too little effect on the USA. I'd like to see the folks a lot closer over there step up and do some heavy lifting.
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The narrative:
the pro-Russians started shooting
the pro-Kiev moved in and forced them into a building
the pro-Russians threw Molotov cocktails and set the building on fire
the pro-Russians died in the fire or when jumping to escape the flames
Now, there are pictures I didn't explicitly discuss - I know my eyes are bad and my visual processing is faulty, but I assume that if I'm having difficulty trying to figure out a photo, then everyone else is too. But there are photos that OBVIOUSLY don't fit the narrative. The men with blood pools under their heads. The woman bent backwards over a desk with no trace of fire. The woman who was raped. The many videos add convincing evidence - the narrative provided by western news was false.
BTW - if we both have the time and interest, maybe we could go back to that thread (probably where this belongs) and look at the responses.
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
My question is this: When the map stuff came up, about Rap being in Georgia, etc., I played with the FFF "Browncoat Map" for a bit. Found it fascinating; most people were exactly where I'd made note they said they were. The one that had me saying "huh", and I asked about it at the time, was Sig and Kiki. I never got an answer, from them or anyone else.
I've never looked into the map. Interesting. Does it show everyone, even if they didn't put their location in?
I was not thinking SIG = KIKI, though that's an intriguing idea. I have other theories that are even more entertaining. ;)
Will I ever know? Nah. But it's fun to play with. A meaningless little mystery to investigate. Because no matter how clever people are, patterns establish themselves over the years...
Kiki - perhaps, re returning to the Ukraine thread. Thing is, I really am more interested in what this issue reveals about RWED posters than I am in the issue itself. I don't mean to say that what's happening in Ukraine isn't damned important, much more so than this silly meaningless (in the long run) website.
But I have no control over Ukraine, and nor should I. I'm an American. That doesn't mean I have any right to pass judgement over another country's struggles and tell them what to do. I'm not smarter or nobler or wiser than any of the people who are out on those streets right now. I don't know their condition or history or personal hopes or struggles. I have no right to decide who to blame.
Boston 4-1, 5 mins to go.
ETA: 4-2 with 2:30. Damn.
/tangent F***ing Subban. I should hate him for how much damage he's done against the B's, but damn isn't it cool to see a black guy killing it in the NHL? Ugh. Whole other issue. I admit - I'm not color blind. I love seeing a black guy breaking the NHL barriers. (And Iginla and Carter...) Only thing that could beat it is an openly gay guy. Wouldn't that be something as far as crushing barriers?
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MAL4, you make such a big fucking deal about RT.
WHY?
I make a point of posting from almost ANY OTHER site than RT (zerohedge most notably) and yet... there you are, being all bothered by ... what?
So, are you anti-Russian? Youbetcha! You're one of those people who THINKS they're being reasonable, but you have big blinders on, just as big as rappy's only differently shaped.
You're right, we're not the UN here, but you are a citizen- right? You vote? You make you opinion known in other ways to your Congresspeople and President? Do you really think it doesn't matter, that you are somehow absolved of evil if you go along with yet another evil plan by the USA? After Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria, have you learned nothing about the real policies of the USA, or have any concern for the millions of lives that we've ruined and the hundreds of thousands of people that we killed? Or would this, just, yanno, ruin your enjoyment of a baseball game?
I used to think you were a halfway decent person.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
The narrative:
the pro-Russians started shooting
the pro-Kiev moved in and forced them into a building
the pro-Russians threw Molotov cocktails and set the building on fire
the pro-Russians died in the fire or when jumping to escape the flames
Now, there are pictures I didn't explicitly discuss - I know my eyes are bad and my visual processing is faulty, but I assume that if I'm having difficulty trying to figure out a photo, then everyone else is too. But there are photos that OBVIOUSLY don't fit the narrative. The men with blood pools under their heads. The woman bent backwards over a desk with no trace of fire. The woman who was raped. The many videos add convincing evidence - the narrative provided by western news was false.
BTW - if we both have the time and interest, maybe we could go back to that thread (probably where this belongs) and look at the responses.
People shot is not some big revolution, there was shooting going on from both sides. The women bent over the desk is not burned, but could have very well died of smoke inhalation. The one picture of a women burn and her legs spread does not mean she was rapped.
I have also not hurt the narrative you are saying is the western one. I heard there was a clash between the two sides, the pro-Russian one was forced back into the building and in the chaos a the fire started. Yes, the Ukrainian government is painting a picture that blames the pro-Russian side for everything. That is what all governments do. The media however has not simply parroted that.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MAL4, you make such a big fucking deal about RT.
WHY?
I make a point of posting from almost ANY OTHER site than RT (zerohedge most notably) and yet... there you are, being all bothered by ... what?
So, are you anti-Russian? Youbetcha! You're one of those people who THINKS they're being reasonable, but you have big blinders on, just as big as rappy's only differently shaped.
You're right, we're not the UN here, but you are a citizen- right? You vote? You make you opinion known in other ways to your Congresspeople and President? Do you really think it doesn't matter, that you are somehow absolved of evil if you go along with yet another evil plan by the USA? After Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria, have you learned nothing about the real policies of the USA, or have any concern for the millions of lives that we've ruined and the hundreds of thousands of people that we killed? Or would this, just, yanno, ruin your enjoyment of a baseball game?
I used to think you were a halfway decent person.
Any reasonable person is going to question a Russian new outlet when you have a conflict that is pro/anti-Russian.
What evil plan do you think the US has for Ukraine?
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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It's a spell. An anger spell by an anger demon...
Seriously, I've had better times at the dentist. Or enduring Rappy's nonsense.
Can I suggest cooling down a bit, or is this the wrong crowd?
-Washisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
It's a spell. An anger spell by an anger demon...
Seriously, I've had better times at the dentist. Or enduring Rappy's nonsense.
Can I suggest cooling down a bit, or is this the wrong crowd?
-Washisall
Really? I find this all very interesting. Perhaps it's the Niska in me: hold a human over the fire and you see what's really in there...
I hope it's obvi that I'd never actually burn a person. But the heat of an internet argument can reveal a lot. It's like a little bitty virtual volcano. :)
Still, sorry for making you unhappy Chris. You are the Willow or Kaylee of RWED: the pure soul. Ummm... except when you said something unacceptable to Rap...
So there. We all have our moments.
B's win! Game 6 in Montreal, Monday.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You're right, we're not the UN here, but you are a citizen- right? You vote? You make you opinion known in other ways to your Congresspeople and President?
And this has the effect of... what?
Quote:
Or would this, just, yanno, ruin your enjoyment of a baseball game?
I used to think you were a halfway decent person.
And you just lost all my respect, not knowing baseball from hockey... /snark
Seriously, enjoy that high horse you're on. Now I def do know why you love Rap so much. You do love being superior. Which is exactly what's wrong with America.
You have fun telling those stupid inferior Ukrainians and Russians what they ought to be doing.
I am SO right about you LOL!
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Quote:Rap makes me Mal fighting the war again. Sometimes. Or Dark Willow.
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Still, sorry for making you unhappy Chris. You are the Willow or Kaylee of RWED: the pure soul. Ummm... except when you said something unacceptable to Rap...
Haven't visited there much recently. Thankfully.
Just hate seein' family fight here is all.
We're the crew, from near a decade back in some cases.
End of fuzzy-wuzzy speech.
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Kiki:Quote:
FWIW If you think I'm a sock-puppet then of course you'll mistrust whatever I post. And if you don't then I don't need to answer your accusation. That IS an accusation - right?
No, it was a question…something that didn't add up to me. I never thought you were a sock puppet before, but some stuff just didn't make sense.
But obviously the map is NOT correct; as Magons says: "the maps are not accurate. I've checked out where I am supposed to live and, although in the same city, is nowhere close. I dont know how they determine the exact location, but maybe its something to do with the IP? I'm guessing here." and "I'm also listed as living in a tree with 3 other posters that I know nothing about." I too am guessing IP address has something to do with it, maybe, but I can accept that the map is at least somewhat off, which pretty much puts that whole question to bed.
Magons: as to "I don't think ikiki is signy's sockpuppet. I mean why would they bother?". I have never understood sock puppetry or why anyone would bother.
So, forget the question, and go back to sniping at one another. Like Chris, I'm sad to see it so I don't think I'll return to this thread. (Sadly, Chris, I don't think suggesting cooling down will have any effect...) :-(
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Quote:Depressed now.
Originally posted by Niki2:
Sadly, Chris, I don't think suggesting cooling down will have any effect...
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I'm also listed as living in a tree with 3 other posters that I know nothing about.
I don't think ikiki is signy's sockpuppet. I mean why would they bother?
I couldn't find you Magons. Or myself for that matter.
But I don't think the map is supposed to be super accurate - that would be very creepy, if it gave your actual house. It just gives your vicinity - hence why people are on top of each other.
And I do find it curious that Signy and Kiki are in each other's vicinity, according to the map. There's is a relationship I've wondered about.
I was disappointed that I didn't find RiverLove next to Jongsstraw. There goes one of my pet theories :-(
It's not personal. It's just war.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Depressed now.
Dude. Did you NOT see the ABBA video ?
It's posted... right up there!
Quote:
Rap makes me Mal fighting the war again. Sometimes. Or Dark Willow.
But we all love crayon-breaky Willow !
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Niki
I have an IP based at a university ...
ETA: but just checked the map and the cluster is not even close ...
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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"And I do find it curious that Signy and Kiki are in each other's vicinity ..." Really? There's a kiki on the map? where is that?
Oh - part of that cluster. Well, assuming it's all university-related, that makes sense. There's probably more university people who like firefly compared to others. But the location?? Not even remotely close. I mean welllllll over 10 miles off.
So, it does seem to be IP address related. Interesting. But the discrepancy with geography is an interesting quirk that would be fruitful to puzzle out.
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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"Seriously, I've had better times at the dentist. Or enduring Rappy's nonsense."
BIG HUGE LOL here! THANKS!
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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I have no idea what this "map" is, but it's probably related to a server. When I first open up mapquest, it thinks I'm in Thousand Oaks. When I first open wunderground, it thinks I'm in Torrance.
Or maybe the map just has a default address-like the crime map that the LA City police had instituted a number of years ago. If an entered address couldn't be mapped, it just defaulted to the polic station.
I'd sure like to know how it works, but the fact that so many people wind up next to each other on one map looks like it's simply a default address (either physical or IP) for "unknown". It's many miles away from where I live... and I prefer to keep it that way.
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M52
Quote:Any reasonable person would question an American news outlet when you have a conflict that involves America, And this conflict very clearly does, with Obama "sanctioning" Russia and getting all involved in other ways for who-knows-what reasons.
Any reasonable person is going to question a Russian new outlet when you have a conflict that is pro/anti-Russian.
Which is why I go to MANY news outlets, and almost never post from RT.
So, in the htread in question, here is a list of my links...
RT video of man with Ukraine armband shooting at the Odessa building (you can find this same clip from many sources)
globalresearch (NOTE: NOT RT)
Business News Euopre (NOTE: NOT RT)
London Review of Books (NOTE: NOT RT)
London Review of Books (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
YOUtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Which is why I wonder why MAL4 has such an issue over links which for the most part DON'T EXIST in my posts. She... and KPO and G... reject information just because it appears in the same thread as an RT link??
Quite frankly, if anyone's objectivity is suspect, it's MAL4's. And KPOs, G's, MIKER's and the rest.
Quote:What evil plan did the USA have for Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Syria? Sudan? What was the point of destroying those nations?
What evil plan do you think the US has for Ukraine?
I used to think that the USA had some resource extraction plan, or some plan to prevent the use of a currency other than the petrodollar. But the invasion of Iraq which was supposed to pay for itself in oil - never did. The oil output of Libya similarly fell, and has never been restored to its pre-war levels. Same for Sudan. If we went in for oil, we failed to get it.
So all we've done is destroy these nations' economies, pump them full of guns and other arms, cause starvation and displacement crises, reduce them to civil war and boost the most violent among them -notably jihadists, kick women down to the status of chattel, and destroy educational opportunities.
I think the USA simply wants to destroy Ukraine, just like we destroyed all those other nations. If the IMF can suck money out of Ukraine and bring Ukrainian national assets (agricultural land, natural gas, strategic pipeline placement) under western corporate control in the process, so much the better.
I imagine your first question is Would we DO such things?, and the answer is- we already have.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52Quote:Any reasonable person would question an American news outlet when you have a conflict that involves America, And this conflict very clearly does, with Obama "sanctioning" Russia and getting all involved in other ways for who-knows-what reasons.
Any reasonable person is going to question a Russian new outlet when you have a conflict that is pro/anti-Russian.
Which is why I go to MANY news outlets, and almost never post from RT.
So, in the htread in question, here is a list of my links...
RT video of man with Ukraine armband shooting at the Odessa building (you can find this same clip from many sources)
globalresearch (NOTE: NOT RT)
Business News Euopre (NOTE: NOT RT)
London Review of Books (NOTE: NOT RT)
London Review of Books (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
YOUtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Youtube (NOTE: NOT RT)
Which is why I wonder why MAL4 has such an issue over links which for the most part DON'T EXIST in my posts. She... and KPO and G... reject information just because it appears in the same thread as an RT link??
Quite frankly, if anyone's objectivity is suspect, it's MAL4's. And KPOs, G's, MIKER's and the rest.Quote:What evil plan did the USA have for Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Syria? Sudan? What was the point of destroying those nations?
What evil plan do you think the US has for Ukraine?
I used to think that the USA had some resource extraction plan, or some plan to prevent the use of a currency other than the petrodollar. But the invasion of Iraq which was supposed to pay for itself in oil - never did. The oil output of Libya similarly fell, and has never been restored to its pre-war levels. Same for Sudan. If we went in for oil, we failed to get it.
So all we've done is destroy these nations' economies, pump them full of guns and other arms, cause starvation and displacement crises, reduce them to civil war and boost the most violent among them -notably jihadists, kick women down to the status of chattel, and destroy educational opportunities.
I think the USA simply wants to destroy Ukraine, just like we destroyed all those other nations. If the IMF can suck money out of Ukraine and bring Ukrainian national assets (agricultural land, natural gas, strategic pipeline placement) under western corporate control in the process, so much the better.
I imagine your first question is Would we DO such things?, and the answer is- we already have.
Yes I would trust the American and other western media more. Save for the more wild portions of the RT and Global Research story they have been reporting that both sides are killing. If you want an example of your bias it can be found in the fact that an arm band on the man in the video if proof enough for you, but the fact there is video of shooters in Ukrainian uniforms during the Kiev protests mean little. Of the fact that the pictures of the men in Crimea had Russian uniforms minus the badges.
When you can't come up with a solid reason other than destruction you should really take a step back. That is unless you think the US is an evil cartoon empire.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Interesting. I keep coming back to this out of curiosity…I've had some difficulties with Sig from time to time, mostly in relation to her extremism, and have disagreed with her probably as much as I've agreed with her. Her feelings on this issue, from only what I've read in just this thread, are a continuation of that extremism. What's interesting to me is that I never quite envisioned her as quite THAT naïve:Quote:
What evil plan did the USA have for Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Syria? Sudan? What was the point of destroying those nations?
I think the USA simply wants to destroy Ukraine, just like we destroyed all those other nations. If the IMF can suck money out of Ukraine and bring Ukrainian national assets (agricultural land, natural gas, strategic pipeline placement) under western corporate control in the process, so much the better.
I imagine your first question is Would we DO such things?, and the answer is- we already have.
I find that interesting on four points. First, how is any other nation any different, insofar as using its power where it does to achieve its own aims? Second, why does "destroy" have to come into anything…if a few people in government have the power/know-how to set things in motion for this or that reason, how does that mean the entire "USA" wants to "destroy" anything? Third, ARE those nations actually "destroyed", and do their own governments, such as they are, have anything to do with their situation, or does The USA control everything? And lastly, what about governmental ineptitude…once things are set in motion, doesn't fucking things up by the military, government, politicians, diplomatic service, secret services, etc., pretty much always follow?
As for "plan", I find that laughable. By now we all know that Afghanistan was where we should have focused after 9/11 to deal with that if we were going to, Bush/Cheney (and/or whoever's behind/beside them) wanted Iraq, so we focused there instead, for reasons having nothing to do with 9/11, with a propaganda effort bringing enough public opinion to make it feasible and, as far as I can see, with little indication of any feasible "plan".
"Evil plan" to "destroy" doesn't come into it much, for me, that's all.
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Quote:Again you miss the point. Are you purposely trying to?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Which is why I wonder why MAL4 has such an issue over links which for the most part DON'T EXIST in my posts. She... and KPO and G... reject information just because it appears in the same thread as an RT link??
My references to all your links have, after several posts, shortened to the example of RT because first, that's the easiest to type, and second your thread of RT videos was the first time I saw you diving over the edge. That's the one where believed RT rather than other propaganda sources (you even called them that!) for no apparent reason other than you liked the story they were pushing.
Anyhow, you are nitpicking details and avoiding the bigger issue: I'm not criticizing your sources as much as analyzing what they say about you.
Quote:Interesting. And who am I biased for or against? Do tell.
Quite frankly, if anyone's objectivity is suspect, it's MAL4's. And KPOs, G's, MIKER's and the rest.
As to the rest of your post, what Niki said with one addition: note that the root of your argument comes down to how evil you believe the US to be. And there is your bias. You will believe any sources that paint the US as purely evil and hell-bent on destruction and dismiss any sources that don't. You also completely including the "evil" tendencies, actions, and histories of other nations.
Unlike Niki, I hadn't really known before what an extremist you can be.
*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*
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Quote:Signy can be pretty radical, but extremist? I suppose she can be as negative about the US as Rappy can be positive...
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Unlike Niki, I hadn't really known before what an extremist you can be.
Anyway, after
"You just hold onto those hostages until after I'm elected & we'll give you arms out the wazoo"
I find extreme not to be very extreme any more.
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Quote:You're not much of a scientist, are you? Not into analyzing information? Hubby and I have been working as scientists for over 40 years. I think I know how validation works.
I'm not criticizing your sources as much as analyzing what they say about you.
In science, information isn't judged on its "source" because the source is irrelvant if the information validated. So, you being all bent about the "source"... and "what it [supposedly] says about me"... is very revealing about YOU. What it tells me is that you really don't care about the information. You would rather assasinate character than discuss the topic at-hand. Because you really don't pay attention to the real world it tells me that you have a belief, and that you draw your truth from a bible (the western press). Real events are dismissed.
Quote:And now we come to one of your (collective) essential beliefs, one that riles you up when crossed.
note that the root of your argument comes down to how evil you believe the US to be. And there is your bias. You will believe any sources that paint the US as purely evil and hell-bent on destruction and dismiss any sources that don't.
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Quote:Sources count for a lot if one is not willing to do research.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In science, information isn't judged on its "source" because the source is irrelevant if the information validated.
Some of the stuff PN has posted is entirely true & verifiable. Just sayin'.
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CHRIS
Then discuss the information, not the sources. Either verify it, reject it, or put it in a "not enough information to decide" bucket. But stop with the character assasination and the "see no evil" posture. Isn't that what we're always chivvying rappy with? That he puts his fingers in his ears and says "Nyah nyah nyah, I can't hear you"? This may seem harsh, but isn't that what's happening here? It seems about the same to me, anyway.
AFA PN's data... where it was true, I added it to my store of knowledge. Where it wasn't, I rejected it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
discuss the information, not the sources. Either verify it, reject it, or put it in a "not enough information to decide" bucket.
Yeah, that's how it SHOULD work. But y'know, emotions at play, personality conflicts, stuff like that.
In court one time I was fighting a ticket and testified (with lots of photographs) that where the officer was when he aimed the radar gun was catching the trees whipping around on that windy day, not my car, and the judge asked if I was officially certified on radar guns. Like that had any bearing on WHAT I WAS SAYING. *sigh*
I should have just hired a certified expert to come in and say that Radar guns don't work right on even numbered days.
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Well, one of the things that pissed me off was how MAL4, KPO, M52, G, and (utlimately) NIKI and I forget who-all else immediately got all personal and insulting. And yanno what? I particularly get pissed when people who are SUPPOSEDLY are thinking, rational human beings get in my grill and call me crazy, insted of taking a breath and looking at the data. I expected more. Silly me! It seems there's a whole bunch of people who are just as invested in their "-ologies" as rappy and jongsstraw.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, one of the things that pissed me off was how MAL4, KPO, M52, G, and (utlimately) NIKI and I forget who-all else immediately got all personal and insulting. And yanno what? I particularly get pissed when people who are SUPPOSEDLY are thinking, rational human beings get in my grill and call me crazy, insted of taking a breath and looking at the data. I expected more. Silly me! It seems there's a whole bunch of people who are just as invested in their "-ologies" as rappy and jongsstraw.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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M52
Then you are an evil person who is willing to "not give a fuck" when the USA goes around destroying countries and killing millions, and you're just as bad as GWB and all of his supporters.
How does that sound to you?
Good?
Good! 
Your moral position is duly noted.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52
Then you are an evil person who is willing to "not give a fuck" when the USA goes around destroying countries and killing millions, and you're just as bad as GWB and all of his supporters.
How does that sound to you?
Good?
Good!
Coming from you that means nothing. You have literally said you think the US is destroying countries just because. That shows how much thought you are putting into this.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:A few months ago my patience just ran out and I started unloading big time on Rappywhack. A break from here helped to un-damage my calm some.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems there's a whole bunch of people who are just as invested in their "-ologies" as rappy and jongsstraw.
I tend to cut Left-folk slack that I don't cut for Right folk only because Left folk are generally better at bein' all naked & articulate.
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Quote:
Coming from you that means nothing. You have literally said you think the US is destroying countries just because.
M52, you are speaking from complete and utter ignorance. The United States has overturned roughly four dozen democracies since 1900. What were doing- "introducing democracy"???
In many cases, there was an asset that we were acquiring - bananas, the Panama canal, copper (Chile), oil (Iran).
But in the last five (counting Ukraine) state destructions, what the heck did we get out of that??? Other than killing a crapload of people and destabilizing entire regions? Can YOU think of a good reason? Because you're so hot to tell me how I'm not putting any thought into this, why don't YOU do it, and show me how it's done?
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Quote:m52, I don't know if you have a clear idea of how this actually works... Signy can't assign a reasonable meaning to every U.S. action because in many cases it's really just a bunch of guys sitting around (not much if at all smarter than you and me) coming up with theories about what will happen if we THIS and what will happen if we THAT and when they figure they have it all brainworked they pass their educated deductions and opinions on to idiots that go YEAH, OKAY, THAT SOUNDS GOOD who implement this junk that usually ends up only being PARTIALLY correct if at all.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
You have literally said you think the US is destroying countries just because. That shows how much thought you are putting into this.
You want Signy to decode their thinking? Sorry, she'd have to be able to THINK like them to do that. That's like asking an F-18 to try to recreate exactly the flight pattern of a hang glider.
Just because is as accurate as anything else in the bigger picture. Lots of pure gambling going on behind that curtain, Dorothy.
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Quote:Okay, I stood up for you in my last post, so to be fair this is a bit of a personal attack. I understand your frustration, but you gotta leave stuff like this out if you want someone to listen clearly, K? ;)
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
you are speaking from complete and utter ignorance.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Coming from you that means nothing. You have literally said you think the US is destroying countries just because.
M52, you are speaking from complete and utter ignorance. The United States has overturned roughly four dozen democracies since 1900. What were doing- "introducing democracy"???
In many cases, there was an asset that we were acquiring - bananas, the Panama canal, copper (Chile), oil (Iran).
But in the last five (counting Ukraine) state destructions, what the heck did we get out of that??? Other than killing a crapload of people and destabilizing entire regions? Can YOU think of a good reason? Because you're so hot to tell me how I'm not putting any thought into this, why don't YOU do it, and show me how it's done?
Okay!
Lets start with Afghanistan. That was exactly what what everyone says it was. A response to 911. Yes, the members of Al-Qaeda were originally from Saudi Arabia, but they were acting from facilities in Afghanistan with protection by the Taliban. After 911 the US was going to respond in a big way, that was certain. The biggest problem with the war in Afghanistan was that we took our eye's off of it and shifter to Iraq.
Iraq was about multiply things, but the largest were power and money. The White House backed by the Neo-Cons were convinced after and easy victory in the first Gulf War, and seeming victory in Afghanistan that they could spread pro-Western style democracies by force. Not to mention that certain people in that administration had ties to companies that made shit tons of money. Halliburton anyone?
Libya was a different take on spreading pro-western democracies. However in this case it was kicked off by the people of Libya looking to be free from an authoritarian government. The US did not take the lead in helping the rebels we let NATO do that. The US did provide much of the logistical support.
Egypt we had a democratically elected government that ended up being anything but pro-West or really good for people other than the more strictly religious Muslims in the country. This freaked the US and other allies in the region out. Seems we don't learn that just because we help a government come to power it is going to be friendly to us. So when the military coup took place it was better for US and we ignored it.
Syria was part one of the new East vs. West. We wanted Assad gone because it would take away an ally from Russia. Regardless of who was going to take his place it was pretty sure they would not be friendly to Putin. Unfortunately we did not back rebels soon enough and now you have a whole mess of Jihadists in the country.
Ukraine, this is East vs. West part two. The US and EU want the Ukraine to turn towards us. For one it will help the EU economically and second it would hurt Russia. Russia of course wants the Ukraine because it is an important region for them. Much of there military hardware is produced there and they buy a lot of Russian gas. The majority of the people in Ukraine wanted to turn to the west. Russia had a strong hand to play with them providing most of the energy to Ukraine. The Ukraine government tried to please both, it did not work. You can't be part of a free trade group and a trade union at the same time. They are mutually exclusive ideas. Problem was the people want the EU deal signed and were sick of what they see as a corrupt government.
In this chaos Putin saw an easy win with Crimea. The region was already semi-autonomous and not to happy with Kiev. In the end he knew he could take control of Kiev and nothing much would happen. Being that it is the home of the Black Sea Fleet any sanctions against them would be worth it. He knew the West would save harder sanctions encase he tried to take more.
Now with the East of Ukraine it has become clear that the rest of Ukraine is going to fight to keep the country together. Something I think they have a right to do. Tha
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
m52, I don't know if you have a clear idea of how this actually works... Signy can't assign a reasonable meaning to every U.S. action because in many cases it's really just a bunch of guys sitting around (not much if at all smarter than you and me)
Okay, yes you can assign some reasonable reasons for US actions. Unfortunately these people are smarter than you and I. They are at least smart enough to be in power while we are not.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:That's a pure 'sheeple' response. Sorry, MY turn to get frustrated here. I hear this crap from every which direction, and I am so sick of it. The 'elite', the unfathomable intellects, those who deserve to rule by their very shiny nature. Bullshit. Human people is all.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Unfortunately these people are smarter than you and I.
Quote:No trick to getting in power, dedication. Pure, single-minded self-motivated purpose. Intelligence is helpful but not required.
They are at least smart enough to be in power while we are not.
m52, you need to re-access your concept of YOUR place on this Earth. NO ONE is above you, better than. We're all just folk.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
m52, you need to re-access your concept of YOUR place on this Earth. NO ONE is above you, better than. We're all just folk.
That is a nice ideal, but it is not reality.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:We all have our own realities.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
That is a nice ideal, but it is not reality.
I wanted a new kitchen, but damned if I'll pay some company $5000 for it, so I LEARNED carpentry & plumbing to do it my own self for a lot less (okay a little leak in the kitchen sink that I hadda take care of twice now, but small concern).
I was bullied in Jr High, so I LEARNED Martial Arts to kick their asses.
I wanted a phaser from a Star Trek movie that is unavailable, so I LEARNED how to mould and cast my own sculpt from scratch.
I cut my knuckle open with an X-acto knife (to the bone), but didn't bother going to the ER because I'd LEARNED enough about Human anatomy in Art classes to know I hadn't severed an extensor tendon and that it could be serviced with butterfly bandages and a pressure wrap.
And I'm just an average moron.
Please. Don't buy into that elite BS. Almost anyone can be good at stuff if they just want to real bad & learn how.
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Just to say "Niki...immediately got all personal and insulting". No, I saw some damned personally insulting stuff posted by you as the whole purpose of this thread, in post after post. I posed a question that has bothered me before; it's been laid to rest. I said I thought you'd gone off the rails, which I stand by, just from what I read in this thread--there's no WAY I'm going to get involved in the thread I assume this has all been about. I also said I've disagreed with you previously and have observed what I believe to be some pretty extreme stuff from you. I stand by all of that, but the one who started right out being personal and insulting, and lumped me in with everyone else despite my not having even read or been involved in what pissed you off, is you, nobody else. THIS THREAD was deliberately written to be very, very clearly and immediately personally insulting to a whole bunch of people and has continued that way.
Also, I've been very clear many times that I don't like the actions of our government on many fronts AND I'VE TAKEN PERSONAL ACTION to do what I can to make a difference; to lump me as some kind of blind ideologue pretty much says everything that needs saying about you, not me. Thus I'd ask you to leave me out of this, only I think you're so far gone now you can't distinguish much of anything.
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I agree that people can become quite good at a number of things, but that does not mean they are. I know many people who are smarter than myself at a few things. They continue to get better. No matter how much I learn or how much effort I expend they have more experience and a head start. They are always going to be above me. Luckily most of them I consider mentors.
Other things some people are never going to be good at. I have played and studied chess on and off for years. Beginners after a few weeks beat me. For what ever reason I'm never going to be a good chess player. On the other hand I'm a pretty good poker player. I can win tables in online games at a pretty good rate.
All men maybe created equal, but they don't stay that way.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:No, they don't. We are puzzle pieces and some are good at fitting one way and others are good at fitting another. Each according to his or her strengths. I can't do math for shit, but I can figure out angles in a sculpt almost without trying. My Son can do both. But he can't kick as high as I can. We're all different. And the dudes that determine the history of this planet are just regular people playing on their strengths and trying to compensate for their weaknesses.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
All men maybe created equal, but they don't stay that way.
If you see it another way, you automatically condemn yourself to relative meaninglessness, IMO. And you miss the tapestry that is Humanity for the compartmentalized cubicles of the expectations of your 'betters'.
I do not hold to that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:No, they don't. We are puzzle pieces and some are good at fitting one way and others are good at fitting another. Each according to his or her strengths. I can't do math for shit, but I can figure out angles in a sculpt almost without trying. My Son can do both. But he can't kick as high as I can. We're all different. And the dudes that determine the history of this planet are just regular people playing on their strengths and trying to compensate for their weaknesses.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
All men maybe created equal, but they don't stay that way.
If you see it another way, you automatically condemn yourself to relative meaninglessness, IMO. And you miss the tapestry that is Humanity for the compartmentalized cubicles of the expectations of your 'betters'.
I do not hold to that.
Those straights that world leaders are playing on are major reason they are world leaders. Most people don't have that in them to raise to that level. Yes, they have weaknesses, and may not be better in some respects than you and me, but when it comes to what they do they are the top.
As far as them being smarter than you and I when it comes to world politics they are if for no other reason they have more information to work with. We never get the information they get.
The way I see it is that my life has meaning because I'm living it. I know that it is very likely my mark on the world as a whole will be very small if there is one at all. That does not mean I don't try. In the end it will not bother me. I'll die and not care about anything.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:But if we DID, we would make choices no worse than they, and quite possibly better.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
We never get the information they get.
I've always felt that people take the path of least resistance. What's easiest for their abilities to handle. Imagine if we all had to take turns being politicians, cops, dentists, retail managers, CEO's, sanitation workers (within the scope of our individual natural abilities, of course).... suddenly the world might not be as divisive a place.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Just to say "Niki...immediately got all personal and insulting". No, I saw some damned personally insulting stuff posted by you as the whole purpose of this thread, in post after post.
I said I thought you'd gone off the rails, which I stand by, just from what I read in this thread
I also said I've disagreed with you previously and have observed what I believe to be some pretty extreme stuff from you. I stand by all of that, but the one who started right out being personal and insulting, and lumped me in with everyone else despite my not having even read or been involved in what pissed you off, is you, nobody else.
THIS THREAD was deliberately written to be very, very clearly and immediately personally insulting to a whole bunch of people and has continued that way.
Thus I'd ask you to leave me out of this, only I think you're so far gone now you can't distinguish much of anything.
For YOU to say all that to SIGGY took courage. I'm more than a little impressed. But then again, I'm just a "sick fuck".
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Quote:Ain't we all just.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
But then again, I'm just a "sick fuck".
Except Rappy... he's on a special level...
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:But if we DID, we would make choices no worse than they, and quite possibly better.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
We never get the information they get.
I've always felt that people take the path of least resistance. What's easiest for their abilities to handle. Imagine if we all had to take turns being politicians, cops, dentists, retail managers, CEO's, sanitation workers (within the scope of our individual natural abilities, of course).... suddenly the world might not be as divisive a place.
I don't believe we would make better choices. Perhaps some people would but most....not so much.
Would you be willing to make a decision that undercut an issue you feel passionately about in order to secure a deal to keep a powerful group on your side? You might need there help later.
It's about more than just making the best decision based on what you know, but how other will react and what they might do.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:Okay, count yourself out if you feel inferior, but I would make better choices IMO. Ones based on LONG term solutions. Solutions that would not benefit the elite rulers, but the masses. No one would want America destroyed if America was a problem solver and not a problem creator. The demand for short term returns are what's killing the world presently. And we are a significant contributor to that mindset. Competition is for Olympics, not Human lives.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I don't believe we would make better choices. Perhaps some people would but most....not so much.
Evil exists in no small part due to a disconnect from Humanity. To show the world a better way out of darkness would only benefit us all.
That said, child molesters and peeps that talk in the theatre should be killed. Politely.
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You know what I find strange? All the people who looked at the other thread and said - in so many words - I don't know. I can't tell. And with all that non-knowledge and non-perception immediately - and without even checking out the merits of the information - IMMEDIATELY as the VERY FIRST response branded Signy crazy. Extreme. Drifting. PN. And criticized the supposed sources, because, apparently, direct information is trivial but trusted authority is all.
I very carefully re-read the posts and reposted the responses just to be sure. Go back and check it out if you don't believe me.
If you REALLY DON'T KNOW if the information is good - a thing you all REPEATEDLY INSISTED ON - how can you tell if it's crazy? I mean - don't you all listen to your selves - at all?
There's a whole bunch of people I USED to think were fact-based. No more. You couldn't raise valid FACT-BASED objections to information. So you immediately went on a personal attack and dimissed it from consideration. You were shameful.
So, I'm glad I now know that all about you.
It'll be interesting to see if you introspect at all or defensively dig deeper into your cherished beliefs.
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:... when the USA goes around destroying countries and killing millions, .
You see, that never actually happened, so ...
Anyways.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You see, that never actually happened, so ...
Sorry, try again. This has been debunked. Once again, you are demonstrably in error, and ensconced in the endless anti-whom-you-hate bullshit. Feel free to go on, and prove yourself more the idiot than you have already (Heh, if that's even possible at this point).
You proved me right here.
Thanks.
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That which never happened cannot have been debunked.
Sorry, you are the weakest link.
Goodbye.
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Is that a promise? Please?
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Quote:We can dream, 1kiki...
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Is that a promise? Please?
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Well for what its worth, my 10 cents is that there are no angels in RWD. Everyone can get mean and nasty from time to time. I know I've been told to fuck off and that I'm being a dick on a number of occasions, and that's from people I'd normally agree with. Interestingly, its happened when I've been critical of the US and when I've defended the US. I'm sure I've been passive aggresively awful from time to time as well. So there you have it.
There's nothing quite as nutty as trading insults with a person you will never meet. Imagine saying this stuff to someone's face??? Sheesh, anonymity leds us get away with some bad shit sometimes.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Imagine if we all had to take turns being politicians, cops, dentists, retail managers, CEO's, sanitation workers (within the scope of our individual natural abilities, of course).... suddenly the world might not be as divisive a place.
There she is, Miss America...
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BRENDA
I have no idea. I know a number of Canadians, who I talk with in-depth by phone or email. One of them is an NDP apparatchik, and the NDP's position (and of course, the person who had glued himself into some minor function in the Ontario NDP) is about on-par with US Democrats and liberals: stomach-churning hypocrisy.
Another, who is a retired journalist and who has lived in Israel, Egypt and Nicaragua, is madder than hell at the USA, at the NDP, and at the current conservative government. A third is an international human rights lawyer, a fourth works for UNESCO. Their reaction is about the same as the retired reporter.
Also, I like this website
http://www.globalresearch.ca/latest-news-and-top-stories
So I guess the Canadian government is stuck to the US policy, but the people (at least the ones I know) feel a lot differently.
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Quote:M52, they're not smarter than you and I. Heck, look at GWB... he just did what Dick told him!
Okay, yes you can assign some reasonable reasons for US actions. Unfortunately these people are smarter than you and I. They are at least smart enough to be in power while we are not.
But what they are is well-connected, and they're (for the most part) prepared to be far more evil than you or I could ever stomach.
AFA all of these great causes... we (our White House) SAYS it's going to make a nation democratic, or that we have a responsibility to protect (R2P, the latest catch-phrase) but what ARE they going to say to the public, really??? That they would rather see Ukraine or Syria or Egypt or Libya or Iraq (or Iran) torn to shreds than ... what?
Quote:No. When you start trading away your moral authority like that, eventually you stand for nothing.
Would you be willing to make a decision that undercut an issue you feel passionately about in order to secure a deal to keep a powerful group on your side? You might need there help later.
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Niki, you didn't get insulting in the previous thread, but what you did here...
Quote:So, you haven't bothered to read the other thread, but you've already decided I "went off the rails", apparently for no reason at all? So, of course, I'm not supposed to be upset about being tried in absentia, so to speak?
I'm not about to read what I've kind of guessed is the thread that started Sig going off the rails, but since Sig started this thread, and did so as a way to say FU to people here, I'm not going to start a new thread to ask my question, I'll do it here.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52, they're not smarter than you and I. Heck, look at GWB... he just did what Dick told him!
But what they are is well-connected, and they're (for the most part) prepared to be far more evil than you or I could ever stomach.
AFA all of these great causes... we (our White House) SAYS it's going to make a nation democratic, or that we have a responsibility to protect (R2P, the latest catch-phrase) but what ARE they going to say to the public, really??? That they would rather see Ukraine or Syria or Egypt or Libya or Iraq (or Iran) torn to shreds than ... what?
Than intact and strongly supporting whom we see a rivals. That is not hard to understand. They don't want those countries torn apart, they want them in our corner. If they can't have that, than they at least don't want them helping other countries that might threaten us in some fashion.
Quote:
No. When you start trading away your moral authority like that, eventually you stand for nothing.
Which would make you a wholly ineffective world leader. I disagree that you would stand for nothing, but sometimes you have to do things you don't like to succeed in the end.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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M52
You apprently are an Ayn Randian? You think the world is a meritocracy and people got where they are because they're so specially talented and capable? Is that it?
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Quote:So, let's be clear here... you mean Russia, and possibly China. Correct?
Than intact and strongly supporting whom we see a rivals.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno how the parent says I'm not angry, I'm disappointed?
Well, that's not me. I'm both disappointed AND angry.
I don't expect to be believed. In fact, I would be rather disturbed if you all just took my word for events that I post about.
However, I would hope that you liberals would give me enough credit to at least look things up for yourselves. What I've discovered from your recent behavior, however, is that instead of looking at the evidence as it stands you seem to think that if you can argue with ME you'll somehow make the facts "go away". There is hardly a smidgen of objectivity or intellectual honesty to share amongst yourselves.
I'm not your intellectual errand-boy, to be finding facts and information that you're either too lazy or too propagandized to look up for yourselves. I'm not your political whipping-boy either. If you want to keep an eye on events, you have to put in SOME effort yourselves. Don't expect to stay undisturbed in your comfy-cozy cocoon and still be able to perceive truth, because yanno what? The truth is sometimes hard, and it often runs counter to the narrative that we like to tell ourselves. So bird-dog the truth yourselves, or stay uninformed; it's on you-
not me.
If you think this is a giant FU, you're right. If you think it's undeserved, you're wrong.
Well, that's a lot of generalization wrapped in a tantrum.
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov
Americans killed under Obama due to "intelligence failures": 4
Americans killed under Bush due to "intelligence failures": 7000+
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Quote:It refers to another thread which I presume you haven't read.
Well, that's a lot of generalization wrapped in a tantrum.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57980
The very first thing that M52 wrote, without even bothering to examine the information, was...
Quote:
SIGNYM is starting to go the way of Pirate News.
RAPPY actually addressed the point
JONGSSTRAW wrote
Quote:
Jackboots and truncheons and black shirts on fascists
Bloody brass knuckles and newly drawn death lists
Brown paper mail bombs tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things ...
and followed up with lots of offensive pictures.
MIKER
Quote:Because brutality is hilarious, but pointing it out is ludacris. I should be getting apologies, but I'm sure I never will.
I love the humor and wit behind your use of the Julie Andrews song, but I keep seeing this ugly thread revived by those who find It Ludacris.
KPO
Quote:Because, yanno, the separatists shot, strangled, and burnt each other
This fire was a very sad and tragic incident, and I hope the full truth comes out, and the people to blame on both sides are punished for their actions on this day.
MAL4 wrote
Quote:The funny thing was, the pictures that were posted weren't even from RT, and MAL4 hadn't even bothered to parse the information.
I agree. Sig, you've gone over some kind of edge with this issue. Those pictures are horrible, for sure. Somebody did some really bad stuff. You act as if posters who disagree with you at all are denying the crimes, which is disingenuous of you. No one is arguing that crimes weren't committed, or that those crimes were not abominable. What is highly suspect is how you assume you know who committed the crimes based on a website even you have admitted to be biased. You will not stand for anyone to doubt the biased and unproven conclusion that RT is pushing, which speaks a lot about your own bias.
-----------------
Anyway, the unbalance that was evidenced in this thread wasn't only from me. Without even considering the information, all I got was attack/ attack/ attack, even by supposedly fact-driven liberals. I reacted, and yanno what? I'm still pissed, and IMHO rightfully so.
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I'm not going to reply much to this thread anymore.
Yes, it was a rant on my part. Yes, I believe that it's deserved. But I've made my point, and I don't see a purpose to continue making it. There is more important information out there than this tempest in a teacup.
You'll either be investigative about the news, about my posts, or you won't. Like I said, it's on you, not me.
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