The rich get rich...
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Thursday, July 29, 2010 19:01
VIEWED: 1812
PAGE 1 of 1
Want the truth about the rich among us? It’s not just Hayward, tho’ he’s a prime example:
Hayward gets a “severance package” totaling around 18 million dollars.
Larry Ellison, founder and chief executive of Redwood Shores-based software maker Oracle Corp., was the highest-paid CEO of a public company in the past decade, making $1.84 billion in that span, according to a ranking from The Wall Street Journal. Forbes Magazine estimates his net worth at $28 billion, making him the third richest American and sixth richest human being in the world.
Barry Diller, the chairman of IAC/InterActive Corp. and the man responsible for Expedia.com and The Daily Beast, was number two on the list, receiving roughly $1.14 billion.
Ray Irani of Occidental Petroleum Corp. came in third at $857 million.
Steve Jobs.( the Cupertinio-based Apple honcho)'s pay came in at $749 million, but he differed from most other chief executives in that restricted stock - $646 million of it - represented much of its source.
It goes on and on. But four of the 10 highest-paid CEOs ran companies that lost money over the decade, so how does that compare to “pay for performance”? Shareholders lost; CEO’s gained. The American Way.
How about CEOs who are OUT but got pretty good “golden parachutes” too, even tho’ the companies they headed didn’t:
Stanley O'Neal, Merrill Lynch (Package worth: $161.5 million). He fired 200,000 employees; Merrill reported $2.24 billion in losses
Robert Nardelli, Home Depot (Package worth: $210 million). Home Depot is still going strong, tho’ their stock prices dipped, he made $38.1 million as part of his last yearly contract with Home Depot.
Jimmy Cayne, Bear Stearns (Package worth: $61 million). We all remember what happened to Bear Stearns, yes?
Martin Sullivan, AIG (Package worth: $47 million). And AIG, we remember what happened to THEM, too...
Robert Rizzo, public official (Package worth: $30 million). This one’s a special kick to us in CA. Officials are still trying to figure out how Robert Rizzo, who up until this month served as the city manager of Bell, Calif., stayed under the public radar for so long. Rizzo, whose CEO-like work for the debt-strapped city mysteriously earned him $787,637 per year, could end up getting upwards of $30 million in pension payouts. It now appears that outrageous salaries were the norm in Bell: Its police chief, for instance, made $457,000 per year.Quote:
The city cut more than $800,000 from public safety and community services the same year that it gave City Manager Robert Rizzo an $82,000 raise. At the same time that top Bell officials were receiving some of the fattest municipal salaries in the nation, the city cut spending on police, social services, and parks and recreation, according to interviews and records reviewed by The Times. While City Manager Robert Rizzo was receiving more than $700,000 a year, Rosario Torres was laid off from her $9-an-hour job preparing children for kindergarten. Bell is a city near Los Angeles which covers 2.5 square miles, and has a population of approximately 36,000.
As an old sitcom’s intro once sang: “Good work if you can get it, if you can get it, let me know”.
Don’t cut taxes for the rich, it inentivises economic growth and everyone benefits, they say. Oh yeah? What did these guys “incentivize” and how did we benefit, exactly?
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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You got this from last nights Maddows show... except they had some douchebag covering for her.
Heh, Nix. You accuse me of parroting verse from Fox news? You do it from MSN, and ESPECIALLY MADDOW.
See, unlike you, I watch ALL "news".
Try again Nix.
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That really isn't on topic.
Try again, Wulf.
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No, its right on topic.
I actually dont care about this thread. Its bs propoganda from the liberaty anyways, in order to pit the "poor" vs the "rich" to further their agenda.
No.
She is quoting line and verse from the Maddow show last night. But seemingly to claim it as her own.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#38439269
Its under the title "The Outrageous Truth of Ceo Pay"
She quoting line and verse from this EXACT show.
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Shes plagerizing the whole thing!
So Nix, you got any ideas of your own on this matter?
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Oops, wrong again, Wulf. I got it from http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/27/local/la-me-bell-cuts-20100727
Yeah, I heard about that one on Maddow; it outraged me so much that I went searching for facts. That's where I found them, but there are dozens of articles about it all over the internet. That one was just concise and I only posted the basic facts.
Yes, I hear about things on Maddow, and other places. Then I look them up, check the websites to be as sure as I can that they're not slanted, and for veracity, before I post.
As it happens, I started out with Hayward because that's what I heard on Maddow and it shocked me. I found a number of websites showing high pay for CEOs and quoted those--they may well have been the ones Maddow quoted, I don't know. I didn't go back to Maddow to quote her and I don't keep stuff like that in my head.
BUT, you might note that quite a few of the OTHER CEOs I put up were NOT on Maddow at all, they came from my own research on the subject. When I found the one on that Rizzo bastard I posted more text, because that one especially pisses me off. The text was directly from the L.A. Times.
I will look up the urls for the sites besides the LA Times--I've pretty much given up posting cites every time I put up something because it's time consuming and I get the feeling few check them out. On things I believe are important, I do.
So no, Wulf, you're totally wrong. I hear something on TV or read it on the internet, then I CHECK IT OUT to be sure what I've heard/read is as accurate as I can tell.
You, on the other hand, parrot what you hear on FauxNews, as far as I can tell. IF you looked things up, it might be different; there have been many "news" stories that have never shown up here because I checked them out and found flaws.
Too bad about that, you should think before you accuse, especially as I've said over and over that I check things out!
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Okay: the first list of CEOs came from http://cbs5.com/local/Oracle.Larry.Ellison.2.1828060.html, a local news station from "Lakewood Shores".
The second list came from U.S. News and World Report (DAMN they're liberal propagandists!): http://money.usnews.com/money/business-economy/articles/2010/07/27/6-u
npopular-ceos-who-still-collect-millions.html
Check 'em out, be my guest. I condense the text in putting stuff up, there's MUCH more information at both sites. Maybe you'll learn something, who knows?
Whether you choose to believe it or not, what I posted is fact, not "bs propoganda from the liberaty anyways, in order to pit the "poor" vs the "rich" to further their agenda." You can find the same information on many financial websites; I could have chosen any one of those, or any website I felt was unslanted. They're just facts.
Do you get it at ALL? Things you dismiss as "bs propaganda" and don't even bother to read or pay attention to often AREN'T that, they're facts which have been back-checked by various sources. Your choice to dismiss them and call them that shows clearly, again, that you don't pay attention. You're so busy with your partisan jihad you can't be bothered with facts, you just call it bullshit and move on. Do you get it at ALL???? Gawd, I wish you could!
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Actually, I'm betting Maddow does the same as I do; gets some of her ideas from news stories, on the internet or elsewhere, then checks them out. I KNOW her people check the facts; she gets a kick out of putting them up when someone calls her a liar and I've checked myself in some instances to verify she's right. That's one reason I trust her "more" than some other news sources.
Given it's all over the internet and in the news, my question would be "did FauxNews cover this at all?" I'll bet they didn't...you see, it doesn't fit THEIR agenda, so like you, they'll ignore it. UNlike you, however, they know it's out there and they know it's fact. It just not "right" for them.
So do I get an apology for accusing me of "plagerism"? 
The difference is, I would have apologized to YOU. I'd also like to know if FauxNews DID play the story, because I bet they didn't (and I do NOT watch them!).
I'm glad to hear you watch Maddow sometimes, tho'; I hope you also check out other sources, because no one is good enough.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Nix,
We all know you got that garbage from Maddow... then when I caught you and called you on it, you spent a few minutes looking up the other links.
My opinions are my own, based on my OWN experience.
Don't accuse me, or anyone else here, of being mouthpieces for particular newssources/people again.
It would be hypocrisy of the worst kind.
As a peace offering tho...
Would you like an apple?
heh :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I actually dont care about this thread. Its bs propoganda from the liberaty anyways, in order to pit the "poor" vs the "rich" to further their agenda.
It's not just rich-vs.-poor. Obama and Dems are also playing race card at every opportunity, black-vs.-white & Arizona -vs- illegals.
So the post-racial "uniter" President is nothing but a pathetic race-baiting, class-warfare asshole. Because he's got nothing else, nothing! Won't matter though, Dems are going to get their asses handed to them in less than 100 days. Obama will be effectively nuetralized, and then he can take even more vacations to NYC and Maine, even more golf outings, even more trips to Spain, even more Paul McCartney concerts, even more time on the bball court, etc etc etc.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Yes, I hear about things on Maddow, and other places. Then I look them up, check the websites to be as sure as I can that they're not slanted, and for veracity, before I post.
Who cares where you got your facts as long as they are true.
Good for you looking things up though...not sure what your point was except rich folks make lots of money.
Not really a surprise. Find me a story about an unemployed fella making millions and that will make me wonder 'what's wrong with the world'.
The whole tax the rich because they can afford it makes no sense. Thats like saying football teams like Ohio State should have a limit to how much they can score depending on the estimated skill of their opponant.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing. I said I found your remarks 'amazing'" Niki2, 2010.
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Quote:
No, its right on topic.
I actually dont care about this thread. Its bs propoganda from the liberaty anyways, in order to pit the "poor" vs the "rich" to further their agenda.
No.
She is quoting line and verse from the Maddow show last night. But seemingly to claim it as her own.
Okay, and you'll notice that I don't particularly care if she did, just like I don't particularly care if someone posts something from Glen Beck or posts movies. That's up to them.
Seems to me this thread was about business ethics and golden parachutes. It's like congress constantly voting to give themselves a pay increase, only instead, it's shareholders, the board of directors and CEOs.
Explain to me how there's a difference, and I'll entertain your argument.
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Omigawd, you're kidding! Doesn't the fact that some of the CEOs I FIRST put up never appeared on Maddow mean NOTHING to you? I'm really pissed; I spend more time checking things out than I do actually posting here, and you say I'm plagerizing! I'm particularly proud of always checking my facts, but you so badly need to dismis them that you'll insult me like that!
Then again, maybe I understand. In WulfWorld people lie, cheat, steal; no wonder you don't trust someone who actually plays by the rules. You have my sympathy.
But again, as EvilDinosaur said in the other thread and Hero said here: Whether I got 'em from Maddow or not, does that make the facts not real? The fact that I put up the URLs to the articles--oh, wait, I gotcha!
The TEXT...the text of everything I put up comes from the URLs I posted. How could I 'hunt around' for URLs to prove I hadn't plagerized Maddow AFTER THE FACT of posting what I did??? Tell me that one, if you dare. You didn't think that insult through, didja?
Aside from all that, how could I have gotten the entire text of what Maddow said to post it verbatum? Hers is a TV show...as in VIDEO, remember?
If you truly are so pathetic and desperate that you have to believe I copied something, and the fact that the same inforation is available all over the internet, then I'm not going to bother any more. That is TRULY the most pathetic thing I've ever seen you do and it really pisses me off. I don't need to be pissed off, I'm already battling a depression because of something else, so I'm outta here.
Anything to avoid admitting you were wrong and/or (gawd forbid!) apologizing, eh, Wulf? There goes what little respect I had for you, right down the drain! I don't need this shit; I'm moving on to something more sensible. It's not important whether you accept the facts or not, in fact it shouldn't surprise me one whit. Dunno why I thought you WOULD!
And thank you Hero. No, it's no surprise the rich are getting richer, but how MUCH richer than the rest of us was a shock to me. Also a shock was to find out how many CEO's were getting million-dollar pay AFTER they were fired, AFTER running their companies into the ground. I probably heard it before, but seeing these graphs really got to me.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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So... Nix.... no apples?
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Ooops, missed yours, Byte, I was so pissed off and typing like a whirlwind. It's not a question; it's something I thought would be worthwhile sharing, that's all. Given I didn't know it myself, I thought I'd share it with others. Nothing more.
Tho' maybe, yes, something about taxing the rich. Given trickle-down doesn't work, given they're SO much richer than others, given tax cuts DO add to the deficit, why should we keep them from expiring? There's a question.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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You know what...I don't do this often, but you've really riled me up, impuning my honesty. So
FUCK YOU!!!
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No, its right on topic.
I actually dont care about this thread. Its bs propoganda from the liberaty anyways, in order to pit the "poor" vs the "rich" to further their agenda.
No.
She is quoting line and verse from the Maddow show last night. But seemingly to claim it as her own.
So, it's all made up propaganda to further the class gap, and a douchebag fuckup ISN'T getting paid millions?
Who gives a shit who reported the FACTS you simpleton? Are you really so twisted up with hate that you'll agree with something wrong just because someone you seethe with hatred for disagrees with it too? I pity you.
But, on the other hand, thank you for consistently being soooooo goddamned stupid. You really are what I visit this site for these days.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Nix,
We all know you got that garbage from Maddow... then when I caught you and called you on it, you spent a few minutes looking up the other links.
My opinions are my own, based on my OWN experience.
So in that clip above that you stole and posted (without permission from either Affleck or Damon, I'd wager), were you Matt Damon? Is that what you're claiming?
Quote:
Don't accuse me, or anyone else here, of being mouthpieces for particular newssources/people again.
It would be hypocrisy of the worst kind.
You mean like YOU claiming Niki's a mouthpiece of the Maddow Show?
Post up the Maddow transcript. Let's see if it's the exact same wording. After all, you DID accuse her of plagiarism. Show your evidence, if you have any.
Or are we not allowed to talk about issues that are mentioned on the news without being considered "plagiarists" for mentioning them?
Oh, hell - I'll do your homework for you, since I have the link handy.
Here's the transcript from Chris Hayes's filling in on the Maddow Show and covering this story:
Quote:
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
HAYES: Well, it‘s official. Tony “I want my life back” Hayward is out as BP‘s CEO.
Here is a word on Tony Hayward‘s legacy from Bob Dudley, the guy who is set to replace him as of October 1st.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB DUDLEY, REPLACING HAYWARD AS BP CEO: I have great admiration for Tony. His commitment to the corporate response in the United States and around the Gulf was evident from the very beginning. When you talk to Tony, he says, look, I was the captain of the ship when a terrible accident happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Well, that‘s one way to look at it.
Another way is that Tony Hayward was the captain of a ship that routinely and systematically ignored safety concerns—and as a result exploded, sank to the bottom of the ocean, and pumped millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, threatening a quarter of America‘s wetlands, not to mention the Gulf region‘s economic stability—but, you know, tomato/tomato.
What‘s not in dispute is the result of Tony Hayward‘s metaphorical ship-captaining. As a reward for his, I guess, leadership, let‘s say, during this really stellar moment in BP‘s corporate history, Tony Hayward is getting a severance package plus pension payments that amount to an estimated $18 million. That‘s what he gets for presiding over a massive oil disaster and record losses.
But “The Wall Street Journal” has compiled a list of the best paid CEOs of the decade and Tony Hayward‘s $18 million payout is an absolute pittance compared to the kind of cash top CEOs are raking in.
Larry Ellison, the founder and CEO of Oracle, tops the list with more than $1.8 billion, billion with the B.
Barry Diller of IAC and Expedia.com made $1.4 billion.
Ray Irani of Occidental Petroleum made $857 million.
And Steve Jobs of Apple made $749 million.
Richard Fairbanks, CEO of Capital One, made off with $569 million.
OK. So, CEOs, in other words, make an astonishing amount of money and, right, we know that. If we‘ve learned anything from our friend Tony Hayward, it‘s not that just because they‘re all great at their jobs and they‘re totally worth it to the company they work for.
CEO pay is not, in fact, a meritocracy. It is a result of the very cozy relationship between CEOs and the people who decide how much CEOs should get paid.
Here‘s how it works in a nutshell: The board of directors has to determine how much to pay their CEO, but it just so happens that most of the people on the board of directors are really good buddies with the CEO in question. So, naturally, they‘ll want to cut their pal a good deal, and there are lots and lots of ways to do that.
For example, “The New York Times” is reporting this week on a study showing that boards of directors, quote, “routinely use compensation peer groups to artificially inflate pay for their chief executives.” So they pick out other overpaid CEOs and choose them as examples of why they needNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Or, puot another way:
(apologies to everyone else)
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Heh,
I do that Nix. But be honest, you got that stuff from maddow, then when I called you on it... you went and got the info from other sources.
To be honest I havnt even looked these things up. Its unimportant to me the social agenda of the demolibprogs, setting up and US vs THEM agenda that they do so well and have for so long.
Rich vs poor
Black vs White
Hispanic vs White
Men vs Women.
Its all the same bs, and just serves to... sadly.. divide and conquor. Especially the weak willed and minded.
But Ive gotten a kick out of catching your BS Nix. You copied Maddow, its opinion, chapter and verse... passed it as your own... then get mad when I call you on it?
Come on Nix, we all get tired of arguing, but resorting to taking someone elses work so you dont have to figure things out for yourself?
You are better than that.
ETA: its cute the little crew of like minded folks you have gathered.. Kwick, Story. They are so kwick to rush to your side of the Story (heh, see what I did there?).
Maybe you DID do some research on your own? Good job. But the truth remains that you got your original material from the Maddow circus (complete with the bearded lady, the feminine man, and ALL the clowns).
Just admit you first heard about this from maddow, then (maybe) did your own research on it and Ill quit.
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Thank you, Mike. Now before I leave this stupid threadjack, how did you get the transcript? Please tell me, I didn't know we could do other than watch the video, and sometimes it would help me look up names, etc., that I hear on the show. Thanx again. Whether he believes me or not, screw him. I know what he's doing; he doesn't even believe what he's accusing me of, it's part of his game.
The mere fact that he dismisses the facts without even READING them and just calls them bullshit says it all; he's either too far into his feed bag with his blinders on, or he's laughing at actually getting to me. Either way:
for being a 
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Quote:
Tho' maybe, yes, something about taxing the rich. Given trickle-down doesn't work, given they're SO much richer than others, given tax cuts DO add to the deficit, why should we keep them from expiring? There's a question.
I think this is less about tax-cuts, and more about loopholes. Tax cuts are good for the average citizen. I have doubts that tax cuts for the rich helps the average citizen, but neither do I necessarily think the rich should therefore be excluded from tax cuts. That just seems like the whole demos problem Plato talked about, and while Plato's philosopher king idea he proposed as an alternative is idiotic and self-serving, he's got a point there about the demos.
Even better for the average citizen and the economy would be budget cuts. Can't actually do much about self-destructive corporate greed and unethical business practices under the current system, the current system is set up to help them and make the little guys unable to compete. But my theory is, their behaviour is destructive, and if they crash the economy, well... They won't be a problem anymore, anyway.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So in that clip above that you stole and posted (without permission from either Affleck or Damon, I'd wager), were you Matt Damon? Is that what you're claiming?
Oh, come on, how can you not understand that those movie clips are his thoughts. Because when Wulfie tries to form thoughs o' his own, his brain gets all hurt, and then he wants to shoot people.
Youtube saves lives, by giving the borderline sociopaths an outlet.
Quote:
Post up the Maddow transcript. Let's see if it's the exact same wording. After all, you DID accuse her of plagiarism. Show your evidence, if you have any.
We all know Wulfie has not the courage or integrity to do so.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
ETA: its cute the little crew of like minded folks you have gathered.. Kwick, Story.
If it makes you feel better, it has nothing to do with jumping to Kwick's aid (he destroys you just fine all by his lonesome) - it's all about making fun of your idiocy. I'd do it with or without Kwick and the others. It's all you, babe.
Quote:
They are so kwick to rush to your side of the Story (heh, see what I did there?).
You used some words twice, uh.... YAY for Wulfie. *golf clap* Maybe someone will put a sticker on your shirt when mommy comes to pick you up.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Oh, THANK YOU Story, for my first guffaw of the day. I needed it just now, and it did the trick. Equilibrium restored. Much gratitude.
Because when Wulfie tries to form thoughs o' his own, his brain gets all hurt, and then he wants to shoot people.
Youtube saves lives, by giving the borderline sociopaths an outlet.
As to his "cute" play on words: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Quote:My gawd. And you don't even see the irony. Wulf, you are so weak-minded that you'll happily spend the rest of your days flossing with some wealthy CEO's asshairs. That's just fine, as long as you can go on hating Maddow (and Niki). Not because of any actual information. You flat out admit you have none.
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Its all the same bs, and just serves to... sadly.. divide and conquor. Especially the weak willed and minded.
Absolutely pathetic. You say divide and conquer is a sad thing, but you don't see that the one creating division here is YOU. You're incapable of discussing Niki's post based on facts, because you have none. All you have is hate.
You're a good little slave, Wulfie. The big evil THEY has got your number down. As long as you have a gun to stroke and a scapegoat to blame for your own failures, you'll do and say anything your masters tell you, huh? Wanna prove me wrong? Express an opinion based on something besides hate. Do some fucking research, and try to actually have a reason to dismiss the message other than a movie clip. Or your old standby: "But waaaah! I don't like Maddow/Niki!"
Sorry Niki. Hard to reply on topic when there's such ass-holery going on. I'll come back to it.
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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No, rather thank you Mal4. It's good to know the THINKING people in this place can see reality and call Wulf for what he is: a coward. He jumped to an assumption with glee; when proven wrong he's incapable of doing anything but sticking to his point and calling me a liar.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Oh, wow, this is great. I just found an update on RWAs and the Tea Party. He won't read it, which is fine, because he wouldn't see himself if he did, but this is a great treatise on Wulfwind and has him pegged to a "T". You'd think he's met our little Wulf:Quote:
As a group, social conservatives share the psychological trait of being authoritarian followers.1 And you can hardly miss the authoritarian follower tendencies in the behavior of the Tea Partiers. Here are a dozen that seem pretty obvious.
1. Authoritarian submission. Authoritarian followers submit to the people they consider authorities much more than non-authoritarians do. In this context, Tea Partiers seem to believe without question whatever their chosen authorities say. Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, various religious groups, the House and Senate GOP leaders, Sen. Grassley from Iowa, Rep. Bachmann from Minnesota, and of course Sarah Palin can say whatever they want about the Democrats, and the Tea Partiers will accept it and repeat it. The followers don‟t find out for themselves what the Democratic leader truly said, what is really in a bill, what a treaty actually specifies, or whether taxes have really gone up. They are happy to let Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin do their thinking for them. It has gotten so bad that their leaders casually say preposterous things that are easily refuted, because they know their audience will never believe the truth, or even hear about it.
2. Fear. Fear constantly pulses through authoritarian followers, and Tea Partiers are mightily frightened. They believe President Obama is a dictator. They also think the country will be destroyed by its mounting debt. They readily believed the health care proposals provided for “death panels” that will euthanize Down‟s syndrome babies, “put Grandma in the grave,” and place microchips in each American so the government can track us. When Rep. Paul Brown (R-GA) said that Obama‟s plan to expand such things as the Peace Corps and AmeriCorps was really intended to create a Gestapo-like, brown-shirt military force in the United States, his followers accepted this. Conservative leaders especially vilify Barack Obama, recently calling him in the space of two days (April 7 and 8) the “most radical president ever” (Gingrich) who is “inflicting untold damage on this great country” (Limbaugh) and is inviting a nuclear attack on the United States by indicating we won‟t hit back (Palin). The people who orchestrate the Tea Party movement know well what button to push first and hardest among social conservatives, and they work it overtime. And they know spreading fear “works” with others as well. Sometimes it seems they are all trying to out-boogie-man each other.
3. Self-righteousness. Self-righteousness runs very strongly in authoritarian followers, and combines with fear to unleash aggression in them. The Tea Partiers commonly describe themselves
as “the good Americans,” “the true Americans,” “the people,” and “the American Patriots.” They could hardly wrap themselves in the flag more thoroughly or more often than they do. Theirs is the holy cause. They believe they are the only ones who can save the country.
4. Hostility. Authoritarian aggression is one of the defining characteristics of authoritarian followers. Do Tea Partiers seem particularly aggressive? The behind-the-scenes organizers of the protests often provided the “words” for the protest through talking-points they distributed. But the protestors put the feeling into the song, and the feeling was often hostility. They angrily called people who disagreed with them at the town halls “Liars,” “Communists,” and “Traitors.” They booed and booed until opposing speakers simply gave up. They lashed out at elected representatives who tried to engage in dialogue. If you look at some of the videos of last August‟s protests, you can see veins bulging in the necks of some of the Tea Partiers as they vented their fury.
5. A lack of c
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Can we just stop generalizing about people around here? Wulf may fit some profile you've heard of, Niki, and you might fit some "liberal" or "hippy" profile, but I don't see what good it does to constantly yell it at each other.
It is not the discussion at hand, this is only a distraction.
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I take your point, Byte. It just fit so amazingly well, and I'm still pissed, so I wanted to share it. I'm getting off; tomorrow I'll have my equilibrium back.
If you know of any place I can find an equally relevant liberal profile, I'd honestly LOVE to read it. It might increase my self-awareness...someone once gave me a book on astrological signs and I was blown away that Libra had me pegged PERFECTLY! That was years ago and I don't fit the profile anymore, but reading that was a ga. It would have to be something at least relatively scientific, but I really would love to read such a thing.
You don't even have to post it, gimme a link and I'll read it...or if you do post it or part of it, maybe we can have a good discussion about THAT side of it. I know you don't like my using RWA, but I'm sorry; I call it like I see it. I don't call all conservatives RWAs or all Republicans or Tea Partiers, but when it fits, yes, I'll use it. You don't have to read anything I post, but I will read what you do.
Aside from which, if you can EVER get RivKaneZit, Crappy or Wulf to stop generalizing about the left/progs/dems/etc., maybe your request would mean more to me.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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My Son's friend asked me about rich & poor today.
I asked her why cats bring home dead mice and not dead German Shepherds.
We take what we can.
Or what we're willing to become to get it.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
If you know of any place I can find an equally relevant liberal profile, I'd honestly LOVE to read it. It might increase my self-awareness...someone once gave me a book on astrological signs and I was blown away that Libra had me pegged PERFECTLY! That was years ago and I don't fit the profile anymore, but reading that was a ga. It would have to be something at least relatively scientific, but I really would love to read such a thing.
You don't even have to post it, gimme a link and I'll read it...or if you do post it or part of it, maybe we can have a good discussion about THAT side of it. I know you don't like my using RWA, but I'm sorry; I call it like I see it. I don't call all conservatives RWAs or all Republicans or Tea Partiers, but when it fits, yes, I'll use it. You don't have to read anything I post, but I will read what you do.
You think I read books about classifications of people and ideology? No, I don't. It's not something I have any interest in.
Why does a book written with an obvious slant, with compiled references from studies with an obvious slant grant any legitimacy at ALL to this idea of RWA? How is it any different from descriptions of "liberals" from an "RWA" poster here on this board with an equally obvious slant? Both think they're right, both have kernels of truth.
There's a saying I've heard. Someone calls you a cow once, shrug it off. Get called a cow twice, begin to wonder. Third time, buy yourself a trough and a bale of hay. If you want to know why people think the way they do and talk the way they do, listen to the criticisms and understand how your own side is perceived, what THEY think YOU stand for. No one gets anywhere by TELLING other people what they think they stand for.
Quote:
Aside from which, if you can EVER get RivKaneZit, Crappy or Wulf to stop generalizing about the left/progs/dems/etc., maybe your request would mean more to me.
Unfortunately, I can't. I know the impossible when I see it. But you might be willing to listen to me, and stop generalizing them just because you want to endeavor for the high ground, and it'd be a small step forward.
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Ever wonder why I try to very specifically individualize my insults, Byte ?
Cause that's the thing, I might be nasty, but I really hate stuffing folk into mental categories, which everyone here, including me, has been guilty of, via responding to one person from that 'category' about something not they, but someone ELSE in that 'category' said - first and only time I did that I was wholly mortified about it, and sought to NOT do that again.
So if imma be nasty to someone, imma be personal and specific, it's not malice, well, ok, it is - but I am at least having the decency to kick them in the shin as an individual, rather than a collective shot at anyone and everyone like them.
Cause, yanno, that's what bombs are for.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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Goddamn Anarchists!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BombThrowingAnarchists
Git offa ma lawn!
*Utah hick*
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Speaking of which, in all seriousness. STATE FAIR. One month from now!
I love the fair. I know it cements me totally being a hick, but I do. Cinnamon almonds, candy apples, cows, baby sheep, bunnies, and that crisp near fall air in the evening. And the people! Such interesting people.
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Although, if you wanna talk about classifications and wearing the shoe that fits, you could ask Wendy, who has dozens of snarky little titles she throws at me, her favorite being "What-ever, Lord Byron!"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byronic_hero
Sometimes I wonder if that kid isn't the anthropomorphic representation of my conscience, cause sometimes she damn sure acts like it.
*muttercussgrumble*
ETA: Oh yes - one benefit of all these rains and storms, there's gonna a fekkin bumper harvest this year, and imma raid the farmers markets like a pirate horde, oh hell yes, Arrr!
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Thank you, Mike. Now before I leave this stupid threadjack, how did you get the transcript? Please tell me, I didn't know we could do other than watch the video, and sometimes it would help me look up names, etc., that I hear on the show. Thanx again.
Keyword search on Google. First I tried "Rachel Maddow transcript", which led me to the transcript area of her page on MSNBC's website, but it was only current up 'til Monday night at that point. So I typed in "rachel maddow ceo pay" - and it brought up a link to the transcript of TUESDAY night's show.
But yes, there IS a place on the Maddow page on MSNBC to get transcripts.
I still don't get how you "plagiarized" Maddow for this info, though. I mean, yes, Maddow (or Chris Hayes, rather) covered this story, but SO DID ABOUT A JILLION OTHER MEDIA OUTLETS. All of them repeated the salient details and facts, but all of them also used their own wording. And near as I can tell, they all credit WSJ with the research and the report.
And I have yet to hear anyone at the WSJ accuse any of them of plagiarism. Maybe Wulfie needs to give them some legal pointers, since he seems so sure of himself on this one!
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Heh,
I do that Nix. But be honest, you got that stuff from maddow, then when I called you on it... you went and got the info from other sources.
To be honest I havnt even looked these things up. Its unimportant to me the social agenda of the demolibprogs, setting up and US vs THEM agenda that they do so well and have for so long.
In other words, you have nothing at all to base your accusations on. You heard Maddow's guest host say something similar, so you ASSUMED that was the only place this story had hit the airwaves.
Quote:
Rich vs poor
Black vs White
Hispanic vs White
Men vs Women.
Its all the same bs, and just serves to... sadly.. divide and conquor. Especially the weak willed and minded.
You must be especially weak-willed and weak-minded then, because you have used every single one of these "divide and conquer" tactics yourself. You can't seem to get through your day without at least three of them.
And you forgot
Liberals vs. Conservatives
Hippies vs. Those Dumbasses At the Tea Parties
Quote:
But Ive gotten a kick out of catching your BS Nix. You copied Maddow, its opinion, chapter and verse... passed it as your own... then get mad when I call you on it?
Come on Nix, we all get tired of arguing, but resorting to taking someone elses work so you dont have to figure things out for yourself?
Who at The High Road and the NRA website did you steal your whole "gun control is about keeping guns out of the hands of black and brown people" spiel from? You know you did; it's not your original idea. I've seen it regurgitated from the right for a couple generations now. Why won't you credit those people from whom you stole it? Why can't you post your own work? Why must you steal others' work and try to claim it as your own?
Quote:
You are better than that.
Clearly, you are not, though.
Quote:
ETA: its cute the little crew of like minded folks you have gathered.. Kwick, Story. They are so kwick to rush to your side of the Story (heh, see what I did there?).
Oh, NOES - did he just go all Lone-WULF on us? (Oh, wow - I just did it, too! Aren't I the clever one?)
Yes, it's really cute how you've gathered your little crew of Hitler Youth around you. Kirk, Kaney, RL, R6213... Oh, wait - they're all the same person! Your little "crew" of like-minded folks consists of a single 14-year-old gay boy. You'll probably have lots of fun together.
Quote:
Maybe you DID do some research on your own? Good job.
You should try it sometime, Wulfie. Research, I mean. Well, that AND getting a job.
Quote:
Just admit you first heard about this from maddow, then (maybe) did your own research on it and Ill quit.
Hey, maybe Maddow heard it first from Niki; ever think of that? Maybe you don't know, but Maddow puts out feelers; I get e-mail alerts asking what stories she should be looking into and reporting on. Maybe Niki gets them as well.
Thing is, as you've already admitted yourself, Wulfie - YOU didn't do YOUR research, ANY research. You didn't look into any other sources, or see where this was first reported, or by whom. You just blindly lurched into a discussion that was clearly beyond your scope and over your head, and you started flailing around, shouting "Plagerism" like some idiot drunken child, without having a single fact straight when you did so.
You really do owe Niki an apology. I doubt she'll get one, because you're not man enough. In the meantime, PLEASE don't quit, because the rest of us are having a hell of a good time laughing at your stupid backwards hick ass as you make an even bigger idiot of yourself than was previously thought possible.
Wulfie, you are the living embodiment of the old adage that Hydrogen is only the SECOND most abundant element in the universe; Stupidity is the first.
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mista
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Quote:
Who at The High Road and the NRA website did you steal your whole "gun control is about keeping guns out of the hands of black and brown people" spiel from?
Oh come on, he has no idea, Mikey.
But for the record that'd be Clayton E. Cramer - who is, mind you, notorious for being damn near universally fulla shit, he claims to be a historian but he's as partisan as any Wiki deletionist intent on removing evidence of NeoCon asshattery, and he's been caught on it repeatedly.
In case anyone, yanno, actually cared.
I'm fond of the JFPO, but that particular piece of tripe has always offended the crap outta me.
*now having to listen to that STUPID song from Pinocchio over the radio cause I went and called her a demented little cricket*
There's times I really SHOULD know well enough to shut the hell up...
*sigh*
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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Quote:
We all know you got that garbage from Maddow
Oh for God's sake, Wulf. Who cares where the information came from? That's so RWA of you! You should be asking if it's TRUE. And if it is, what does it mean?
Quote:Then that's your first mistake: Assuming that your personal experience has any greater meaning beyond you than PERSONAL experience.
My opinions are my own, based on my OWN experience.
Quote:Heh! YOU'RE the one who keeps posting video clips of others!
Don't accuse me, or anyone else here, of being mouthpieces for particular newssources/people again.
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Quote:
When your father is a former U.S. President and your mother is the Secretary of State, having your wedding reception in the local pub isn’t an option.
Chelsea Clinton’s big day in a country mansion on Saturday could cost up to £3.2million.
No expense will be spared at what will be the American society event of the year, with the equivalent of £6,400 being spent on each of the 500 guests.
Bill and Hillary Clinton are also not shy of a dollar - since leaving office as president he has made a fortune from the lecture circuit and she is US Secretary of State, which carries an annual salary of £120,000.
Between 2000 and 2007 they earned a reported £70million.
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=44520
"Earned"...
I guess being a bastard heir to the $100-trillion Rockefeller fortune isn't enough.
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Quote:
I don’t endeavor for the high ground, Byte, you misunderstand. I’ve explained it before: I try to avoid condemning groups by “conservative”, “Republican”, “righty”, etc. I TRY, I don’t succeed all the time. But for me, there is a mentality I see in some people who perfectly reflects the high RWA mentality, and when I see it, I call it that. In cases such as Wulf’s, it’s so obvious it BEGS to be called out.
But you might be willing to listen to me, and stop generalizing them just because you want to endeavor for the high ground, and it'd be a small step forward.
I don’t “tell” him what he thinks, I read his words. Sometimes he says things outright, other times his posts show it all too clearly; he will say one thing and later say something that indicates the opposite, or make a point then later make the exact opposite point. He refuses to see that he does that, but some of us do, and call it out when we see it. That IS an example of compartmentalized thinking, as are other things he posts.
The fact that you find the book slanted and based on “slanted” experiments is your opinion. My opinion is different. I find it a valid work, particularly because what I see EXHIBITED by the people he calls RWAs mirrors his definition so perfectly it’s hard for me to ignore. If they didn’t fit the pattern, I wouldn’t use the term. As I said elsewhere, Crappy, I think it was?, isn’t a complete reflection of an RWA, tho’ from what he said it appears HE thinks he fits.
As I also said before, you are quite free to dismiss the term or denounce it as generalization. Certainly those of us lumped as “libs”, “progs”, “dems”, etc., and given attributes the person assigns to those groups complain, to absolutely no avail whatsoever. They are free to do the same...I took them to heart long ago and try not to generalize negatively (tho’, as I said, I sometimes fail); RWA is a term that represents a kind of thinking that I call an individual when I see what I believe it to be. I don’t use the term when I don’t see the behavior.
Mike, thanx for the link, sometimes stuff goes by and I can’t remember the details to look it up myself, so that’ll come in handy. I’ll have to see if other shows do the same. As to the attack of plagerizing, that stopped bothering me a long time ago yesterday. He caught me unawares and I got pissed at being accused of what some others here HAVE done (especially as I spend so much time investigating and verifying things, but once I got away from the computer, I realized what was happening and it ceased being important. The repetition of the accusation, as you yourself know if you think about it, are a game.
Oh fer crissake, PN, that had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING...you just can’t resist sticking your ugliness in, can you? Ridiculous person.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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