North Korea

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Monday, September 7, 2026 16:58
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THGRRI

Friday, March 9, 2018 1:19 AM (P)

THGRRI

Friday, March 9, 2018 7:09 AM (P)

North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un says he is eager to meet President Trump, and President Trump says he would meet Kim by May to achieve permanent denuclearization, South Korean official says.
T

THGRRI

Friday, March 9, 2018 7:47 PM (P)

This came out of nowhere. It appears Trump suggested to the South Koreans this should happen. He spoke to no one before hand. No advisors or anyone knowledgeable about North Korea to see if this was a good idea. He just set it up.

Bam, North Korea jumped at it. Trump had said the North had to denuclearize before talks. I guess he changed his mind.

Don't misunderstand, I want a miracle here. I am rooting Trump succeeds. I just don't' see it. He can't even negotiate successfully with a porn star. So far every foreign leader he has meet with has cleaned his clock.

T

SECOND

Friday, March 9, 2018 10:29 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Don't misunderstand, I want a miracle here. I am rooting Trump succeeds. I just don't' see it. He can't even negotiate successfully with a porn star. So far every foreign leader he has meet with has cleaned his clock.

A meeting between Trump and Kim Jong-un could be a major opportunity—if Trump actually prepares for it.
By FRED KAPLAN, MARCH 09, 2018 11:44 AM
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/a-meeting-between-trump-an
d-kim-jong-un-could-be-a-major-opportunityif-trump-actually-prepares-for-it.html

The upcoming summit between President Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un is, without question, a good thing. Meeting jaw to jaw is better than war, as Churchill said, and, until now, Trump seemed headed toward war.

But beyond this quite significant fact, expectations should be kept low.

One problem is that the two leaders are going into the meeting with conflicting premises. Trump thinks Kim is caving to the pressure of U.S. sanctions and threats. Kim thinks Trump is caving to the reality of North Korean nukes. Both men are probably right, to some degree. But it’s hard to see how these talks can produce a lasting peace if both leaders think they have the upper hand at the outset—and, therefore, think any deal must be struck on their terms.

That’s the other problem: Their terms—their definitions of a successful deal—are also in conflict.

Kim wants to be recognized as a world leader, a peer who can deter attacks on his homeland, and that means being a leader with a nuclear arsenal. Trump wants Kim to dismantle that arsenal.

Kim has already won half of the contest by getting the president of the United States to agree to meet him in the first place. To a degree that Trump may not realize, that in itself bestows upon Kim an international recognition and legitimacy that his father, Kim Jong-il, and his grandfather Kim Il-Sung both tried, but failed, to attain for decades.

This doesn’t mean Trump should have declined the offer. But now that the game is on, he has to train for it. Most presidents, faced with this risk and opportunity, would have their staffs spend the next two months preparing the best briefing book ever written. They would invite to the White House, for one-on-one chats or group seminars, every diplomat who has ever negotiated with North Koreans, the best historians who have chronicled U.S.–North Korean relations, the best regional specialists who have parsed the lessons to be learned from past talks.

Already the problem should be clear. Trump doesn’t read briefing books or books of any sort. Most of the diplomats who sat down with North Koreans did so under Democratic presidents named Clinton and Obama, who are all—the presidents and their diplomats—barred from this White House.

Even if they weren’t barred, Trump generally thinks that he has nothing to learn from history. As far as he’s concerned, his predecessors failed, so he has nothing to learn from their experiences. No one thought his “fire and fury” threats would produce results, and now look what’s happening. Trump’s refrain all along has been that he alone can do the things he sets out to do, and in his mind, the very fact of this summit probably affirms this belief.

And again, to some degree, Trump’s bellicosity probably did bring Kim to the table—but only to a degree. It’s worth noting that after Trump’s “fire and fury” remarks of last August, Kim tested three short-range ballistic missiles, fired two medium-range missiles over Japan, test launched an intercontinental ballistic missile capable of hitting U.S. territory, and exploded a hydrogen bomb.

One could argue, in other words, that Trump’s growing bellicosity accelerated Kim’s quest to acquire a nuclear arsenal—to claim the status of a nuclear state—and that Kim unleashed his “charm offensive” only after the quest had been fulfilled. So let’s give both leaders “credit” for coming to this moment, even if they’re unlikely to grant it to each othe

THGRRI

Friday, March 9, 2018 10:49 PM (P)

It's should be obvious to all Kim sees what's going on here with Trump. He knows like we do Trump is under tremendous pressure here. That Trump needs to steer the topic away from himself. I believe Kim is using this to his advantage.

So far Trump has handicapped America around the world by making one mistake after another. Is this his last stop?

T

SECOND

Friday, March 9, 2018 11:01 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
It's should be obvious to all Kim sees what's going on here with Trump. He knows like we do Trump is under tremendous pressure here. That Trump needs to steer the topic away from himself. I believe Kim is using this to his advantage.

So far Trump has handicapped America around the world by making one mistake after another. Is this his last stop?

State Department point man on North Korea, Joseph Yun, retired last Friday, March 2. If Trump is serious, he needs to call this man and ask him to come back to work until at least after the Trump meeting with N Korea.

The State Department’s point man on North Korea, Joseph Yun, will leave his post on Friday, amid glimmers of hope that Pyongyang might finally be willing to sit down for talks with Washington.

Yun, 63, is retiring as special representative for North Korea policy and deputy assistant secretary for Korea and Japan after more than three decades of service.

His departure reflects widespread frustration within the State Department at diplomats’ relative lack of power in the Trump administration, according to someone familiar with Yun’s thinking.

It will leave another gaping hole in the United States’ staffing on Korean issues. Washington has still not nominated an ambassador to South Korea, 13 months into the Trump administration. Victor Cha had been in the running for the job, but the administration abruptly scrapped his candidacy last month.

Yun confirmed that he would be retiring and that Friday would be his last day.

Yun, a strong advocate of engagement with North Korea, has been arguing in favor of dialogue with Pyongyang during the last year of increased tensions.

Still, his efforts to promote dialogue with North Korea have been stymied by a president who has threatened to rain “fire and fury” on the North Korean leader, whom Trump has derided as “little rocket man.”

Many Foreign Service officers have expressed frustration with the Trump administration’s unwillingness to listen to the State Department.

www.washingtonpost.com/world/state-department-point-man-on-north-korea
-joe-yun-to-retire-friday/2018/02/26/9a201136-1b62-11e8-8a2c-1a6665f59e95_story.html?utm_term=.8cf11fd83954

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THGRRI

Friday, March 9, 2018 11:27 PM (P)

I would love to hear Yun in his own words state if he thinks this was a smart move on Trumps part second. If he does stay he will have to parse his words carefully.

T

SECOND

Friday, March 9, 2018 11:42 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
I would love to hear Yun in his own words state if he thinks this was a smart move on Trumps part second. If he does stay he will have to parse his words carefully.

None of the credit should go to Trump. All of it should go to this South Korean, speaking at the White House, who talked Trump into doing it:

Remarks by Republic of Korea National Security Advisor Chung Eui-Yong
Issued on: March 8, 2018, 7:11 P.M. EST
www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-republic-korea-nationa
l-security-advisor-chung-eui-yong/

CHUNG: Good evening. Today, I had the privilege of briefing President Trump on my recent visit to Pyongyang, North Korea. I’d like to thank President Trump, the Vice President, and his wonderful national security team, including my close friend, General McMaster.

I explained to President Trump that his leadership and his maximum pressure policy, together with international solidarity, brought us to this juncture. I expressed President Moon Jae-in’s personal gratitude for President Trump’s leadership.

I told President Trump that, in our meeting, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said he is committed to denuclearization. Kim pledged that North Korea will refrain from any further nuclear or missile tests. He understands that the routine joint military exercises between the Republic of Korea and the United States must continue. And he expressed his eagerness to meet President Trump as soon as possible.

President Trump appreciated the briefing and said he would meet Kim Jong-un by May to achieve permanent denuclearization.

The Republic of Korea, along with the United States, Japan, and our many partners around the world remain fully and resolutely committed to the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. Along with President Trump, we are optimistic about continuing a diplomatic process to test the possibility of a peaceful resolution.

The Republic of Korea, the United States, and our partners stand together in insisting that we not repeat the mistakes of the past, and that the pressure will continue until North Korea matches its words with concrete actions.

Thank you.

END

7:13 P.M. EST

THGRRI

Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:37 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
I would love to hear Yun in his own words state if he thinks this was a smart move on Trumps part second. If he does stay he will have to parse his words carefully.
None of the credit should go to Trump. All of it should go to this South Korean, speaking at the White House, who talked Trump into doing it:

Remarks by Republic of Korea National Security Advisor Chung Eui-Yong
Issued on: March 8, 2018, 7:11 P.M. EST
www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-republic-korea-nationa
l-security-advisor-chung-eui-yong/

CHUNG: Good evening. Today, I had the privilege of briefing President Trump on my recent visit to Pyongyang, North Korea. I’d like to thank President Trump, the Vice President, and his wonderful national security team, including my close friend, General McMaster.

I explained to President Trump that his leadership and his maximum pressure policy, together with international solidarity, brought us to this juncture. I expressed President Moon Jae-in’s personal gratitude for President Trump’s leadership.

I told President Trump that, in our meeting, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said he is committed to denuclearization. Kim pledged that North Korea will refrain from any further nuclear or missile tests. He understands that the routine joint military exercises between the Republic of Korea and the United States must continue. And he expressed his eagerness to meet President Trump as soon as possible.

President Trump appreciated the briefing and said he would meet Kim Jong-un by May to achieve permanent denuclearization.

The Republic of Korea, along with the United States, Japan, and our many partners around the world remain fully and resolutely committed to the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. Along with President Trump, we are optimistic about continuing a diplomatic process to test the possibility of a peaceful resolution.

The Republic of Korea, the United States, and our partners stand together in insisting that we not repeat the mistakes of the past, and that the pressure will continue until North Korea matches its words with concrete actions.

Thank you.

END

7:13 P.M. EST

They way I hear it Trump was not supposed to meet with the South Koreans until the next day. That when Trump heard they were there attending a different meeting he went to them. He is desperate to change the news cycle IMHO. At any rate, I hear Trump is now backing up a bit.

President Trump is open to meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un to discuss his nuclear program, but only under certain conditions, the White House said Friday.

"We’re not going to have this meeting take place until we see concrete actions that match the words and the rhetoric of North Korea,” White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates
-white-house-puts-conditions-on-trump-1520628277-htmlstory.html

T

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:09 AM (P)

lol. you guys are a constant source of amusement. Thanks for the laughs. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Saturday, March 10, 2018 7:24 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
It's should be obvious to all Kim sees what's going on here with Trump. He knows like we do Trump is under tremendous pressure here. That Trump needs to steer the topic away from himself. I believe Kim is using this to his advantage.

So far Trump has handicapped America around the world by making one mistake after another. Is this his last stop?

Yanno, it's funny, but when I listen to different sources I get two entirely different pictures of the Trump administration. Yours ... the Lib/Dem one ... paints Trump as an almost tragic figure ... increasingly isolated and paranoid, driven to a King Lear madness by the gap between his innate capacities and the complexities of office. Any successes - such as the potential upcoming meeting - are accidental, and Trump didn't create them but he can sure fuck them up.

Another source - the X22 Report - paints Trump as an almost preternaturally devious man, one who is mocked for idiocy and mental disability ... a kind of modern-day Claudius* ... as he works his way towards achieving his goals. The tweets are just distractions which cause the deep state to focus in one direction while progress is made in other directions.

I'd give the X22 report zero credibility, but Trump has managed to pull a few rabbits out of various hats, and Trump has also (quietly and without fanfare) gotten several laws and/or Executive Orders in place which not only allow him to freeze the assets of those who are suspected of human rights crimes (such as trafficking people) but also given greater authority to court-martial. According to THIS theory, the meeting between Kim and Trump has already taken place ... in China.

Obviously, the two can't both be true, and quite possibly neither one is correct.

* Emperor Claudius

Quote:
Claudius’ disabilities may have given the impression that he could be easily manipulated, but once in power, he showed himself to be cleverer than previously believed. He deftly avoided a confrontation with the Roman senate, and purchased the loyalty of the Praetorian Guard with a massive 15,000-sesterce per man donative. His ailments appeared to improve after he took the throne, and he later claimed that he had only pretended to be dimwitted to protect himself.

https://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-may-not-know-about-emperor-c
laudius

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

THGRRI

Saturday, March 10, 2018 7:33 PM (P)

X22 report, really sig. No wonder your insights are so fucked up. Little green men making videos on youtube. You should have coffee with rappy. He is duped by that shit as well.

I would think by now you would understand the posters here. To realize that shit won't fly with the ones who mostly disagree with you. Do you have the capacity to evolve or are you stuck in the world of ignorance?

T

SECOND

Saturday, March 10, 2018 7:40 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Yanno, it's funny, but when I listen to different sources I get two entirely different pictures of the Trump administration.

Did you consider the picture from North Korea's viewpoint? With Trump agreeing to meet with Kim, North Korea has already achieved a victory. Kim is looking for legitimacy. Trump just gave it to him as a presumed co-equal on the world stage.

At the conservative website The Federalist, Ed Krayewski said that “it’s possible” for Trump’s experience in running beauty pageants and professional wrestling to play a positive role in negotiations with Pyongyang.

“It’s not so preposterous to think of diplomacy as a bit like reality television,” he wrote on Friday. “Different countries have different priorities and national security interests, but they’re operating on an international stage with an international audience, and the pressure to “get to yes” that can come with that.” http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/09/trump-and-kim-jong-uns-meeting-dip
lomatic-win-for-the-president/

Rep. Luke Messer (R-IN) said, “If North Korea disarms, President Trump’s Nobel Peace Prize would be well deserved.” Some how, the Prize doesn’t seem likely.

SECOND

Saturday, March 10, 2018 8:00 PM (P)

The reason a US president has never met a North Korean leader is that the US and North Korea continue to be at war. In international diplomacy, the leader-to-leader meeting is the highest level of commitment available. No prior White House would send the president into a summit that has not been pre-scripted with guaranteed results. Should there be no agreement, there is no face-saving blame to be put on State Department negotiators, and little room left for future diplomacy between North Korea and America. And while the White House says this meeting is not a negotiation, that only raises the question of what the president is even doing there.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Sunday, March 11, 2018 1:23 AM (P)

Quote:
Did you consider the picture from North Korea's viewpoint? With Trump agreeing to meet with Kim, North Korea has already achieved a victory. Kim is looking for legitimacy. Trump just gave it to him as a presumed co-equal on the world stage. - SECOND

It's very possible that Kim is portraying this as some sort of victory domestically, making himself an even MORE beloved leader to his people.

WHO CARES what happens in NK domestically? It's not our business whether Kim gets any benefit out of this, and fretting about it - as you seem to be doing - is getting in the way of us getting something positive from this. After all, isn't the important thing to de-nuclearize the Korean Peninsula, remove a potential nuclear threat and flashpoint, negotiate a peace so that we can remove our troops and bases (reducing our military footprint and spending overall), and help the South and North achieve international relations? What are OUR interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Don't be cutting off your nose to spite your face, SECOND.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, March 11, 2018 1:29 AM (P)

No matter what Trump did, Second and T would have said that it was the wrong move.

If it turns out to be the wrong move, they will say "I told you so".

If it turns out to be the right move, they will say that Trump deserves no credit for it.

Don't bother playing chess with people who rig the game in such a way that they're guaranteed to win no matter what Sigs.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Sunday, March 11, 2018 1:30 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No matter what Trump did, Second and T would have said that it was the wrong move.

If it turns out to be the wrong move, they will say "I told you so".

If it turns out to be the right move, they will say that Trump deserves no credit for it.

Don't bother playing chess with people who rig the game in such a way that they're guaranteed to win no matter what Sigs.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

True dat.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Sunday, March 11, 2018 1:54 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No matter what Trump did, Second and T would have said that it was the wrong move.

If it turns out to be the wrong move, they will say "I told you so".

If it turns out to be the right move, they will say that Trump deserves no credit for it.

Don't bother playing chess with people who rig the game in such a way that they're guaranteed to win no matter what Sigs.

So what does he deserve credit for so far, oh great sage? Go ahead, use the google.

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Sunday, March 11, 2018 1:57 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

* Emperor Claudius
Quote:
Claudius’ disabilities may have given the impression that he could be easily manipulated, but once in power, he showed himself to be cleverer than previously believed. He deftly avoided a confrontation with the Roman senate, and purchased the loyalty of the Praetorian Guard with a massive 15,000-sesterce per man donative. His ailments appeared to improve after he took the throne, and he later claimed that he had only pretended to be dimwitted to protect himself.
https://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-may-not-know-about-emperor-c
laudius

After "Lillie", "I Claudius" was one of the best early *BBC productions.

*British Broadcast Company

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Sunday, March 11, 2018 2:08 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
The reason a US president has never met a North Korean leader is that the US and North Korea continue to be at war. In international diplomacy, the leader-to-leader meeting is the highest level of commitment available. No prior White House would send the president into a summit that has not been pre-scripted with guaranteed results. Should there be no agreement, there is no face-saving blame to be put on State Department negotiators, and little room left for future diplomacy between North Korea and America. And while the White House says this meeting is not a negotiation, that only raises the question of what the president is even doing there.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

People seem to forget that Kim - crazy wild ass spoiled brat that he is - is still human. Sometimes we forget or don't consider, what the US looks like to the rest of the world. Trump of course is a television personality, one we can only imagine Kim knows much like Dennis Rodman. The effed up world of TV says he's a celebrity, special.
I actually think this might be an instance where Trump might do well. In a way Trump and Kim are very much alike, and they have their bat shit crazy in common. There are NO expectations. He's not going to be shot at while jumping into a chopper and getting the heck out of NK, so the worst that will happen is he'll make "at least he tried" points. I think that's exactly what he's banking on.

SECOND

Sunday, March 11, 2018 2:42 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Did you consider the picture from North Korea's viewpoint? With Trump agreeing to meet with Kim, North Korea has already achieved a victory. Kim is looking for legitimacy. Trump just gave it to him as a presumed co-equal on the world stage. - SECOND
It's very possible that Kim is portraying this as some sort of victory domestically, making himself an even MORE beloved leader to his people.

WHO CARES what happens in NK domestically? It's not our business whether Kim gets any benefit out of this, and fretting about it - as you seem to be doing - is getting in the way of us getting something positive from this. After all, isn't the important thing to de-nuclearize the Korean Peninsula, remove a potential nuclear threat and flashpoint, negotiate a peace so that we can remove our troops and bases (reducing our military footprint and spending overall), and help the South and North achieve international relations? What are OUR interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Don't be cutting off your nose to spite your face, SECOND.

If American Presidents' criteria for wanting to de-nuke a country is that the country has H-bombs and intercontinental ballistic missiles and missile launching submarines of the Triomphant class and Arihant class, the Presidents would have been trying to de-nuke France and India.

Signym, can you think of the reason why France, India, and North Korea don't all three have sanctions against them because of their nukes? What is special about the government of North Korea that makes it so different, at least to American Presidents, from France or India? It is not the exotic cuisine. When you finally figure it out, Signym, then you will know why Trump should not be strengthening the hold of the third generation of Kims on North Korea by personally going to North Korea to negotiate. Negotiation is what the State Department is for.

OONJERAH

Sunday, March 11, 2018 4:17 AM (P)

The Korean War (1950-1953) was never settled.
Militarily, it's a stalemate.

We're not at war with France or India.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

SECOND

Sunday, March 11, 2018 4:59 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
The Korean War (1950-1953) was never settled.
Militarily, it's a stalemate.

We're not at war with France or India.

Why was it never settled? Because President Truman did not want to admit he lost a war. 36,574 dead Americans was all Truman was willing to sacrifice. Kim Il Sung sacrificed 406,000 military, 600,000 civilian, and he was not gonna stop. And Harry S was replaced with Eisenhower, who also did not want to admit America lost a war. And so it has continued even until 2018, with the Kim family very willing to sacrifice another 406,000 military, 600,000 civilian dead. And American Presidents are willing to sacrifice nothing, nothing at all.
www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/world/asia/korean-war-fast-facts/index.html

If there will ever be peace on the Korean peninsula, South Korea needs to work with what it has got: Hyundai and KIA cars, Samsung TVs and smartphones, LG refrigerators and microwaves, and too much food, so much that the South Koreans are getting fat. South Korea needs to fatten up the North Koreans and teach them to drive a car.

In exchange, all Kim has to do is not fire more missiles nor explode more nukes. North and South Korea will again be one country, once the details are worked out and there are Samsung and Hyundai factories in North Korea. If North and South Vietnam can be one country, it could happen to Korea. The two Koreas only need to cooperate. The North sells missiles to the South and the South sells cars to the North and everybody is happy, except Washington DC and Beijing and Tokyo, about South Korea’s new weapons. But it won’t be any worse than France and India having nukes and intercontinental ballistic missles.

North v South Korea (2013)
Country N.Korea S.Korea
Population 24,720,407 48,955,203
GDP - per capita (PPP), $1,800 $32,400

www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2013/apr/08/south-korea-v-north-kor
ea-compared

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

AURAPTOR

Sunday, March 11, 2018 5:10 AM (P)

Trump's got this

You're welcome.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

SECOND

Sunday, March 11, 2018 5:16 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Trump's got this

You're welcome.

The time for you to gloat, AURaptor, is after the SUCCESSFUL meeting between Trump and North Korea. The meeting might not happen. It might end in a stalemate, the state of American/North Korean relations since July 1953.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

OONJERAH

Sunday, March 11, 2018 3:43 PM (P)

I rather hope that Trump doesn't have time for the meeting
... and he sends a charming diplomat instead.
That Kim saves great face & is very happy.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

SIGNYM

Sunday, March 11, 2018 5:14 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
The Korean War (1950-1953) was never settled.
Militarily, it's a stalemate.

Militarily, we never signed a peace treaty with Germany either. Look it up. The Germans surrendered, but we never signed a peace treaty with them. That's why we still have huge bases in Germany, and they have a vestigial armed forces.

Quote:
We're not at war with France or India. - OONJ

Why was it never settled? Because President Truman did not want to admit he lost a war. 36,574 dead Americans was all Truman was willing to sacrifice. Kim Il Sung sacrificed 406,000 military, 600,000 civilian, and he was not gonna stop. And Harry S was replaced with Eisenhower, who also did not want to admit America lost a war. And so it has continued even until 2018, with the Kim family very willing to sacrifice another 406,000 military, 600,000 civilian dead. And American Presidents are willing to sacrifice nothing, nothing at all.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SUCH SACRIFICE?

I think it's time YOU asked yourself the questions, SECOND: What are America's important interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Let's start with American existential interests- i.e. those interests which, if not achieved, will allow the destruction of American - and work outwards from there.

Quote:
If there will ever be peace on the Korean peninsula, South Korea needs to work with what it has got: Hyundai and KIA cars, Samsung TVs and smartphones, LG refrigerators and microwaves, and too much food, so much that the South Koreans are getting fat. South Korea needs to fatten up the North Koreans and teach them to drive a car.

In exchange, all Kim has to do is not fire more missiles nor explode more nukes. North and South Korea will again be one country, once the details are worked out and there are Samsung and Hyundai factories in North Korea. If North and South Vietnam can be one country, it could happen to Korea. The two Koreas only need to cooperate. The North sells missiles to the South and the South sells cars to the North and everybody is happy, except Washington DC and Beijing and Tokyo, about South Korea’s new weapons. But it won’t be any worse than France and India having nukes and intercontinental ballistic missles.- SECOND

Open relations with S Korea would represent an existential threat to NK. Not gonna happen.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:06 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
I rather hope that Trump doesn't have time for the meeting
... and he sends a charming diplomat instead.
That Kim saves great face & is very happy.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Kim's happiness means nothing to me.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Sunday, March 11, 2018 6:46 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SUCH SACRIFICE?

I think it's time YOU asked yourself the questions, SECOND: What are America's important interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Let's start with American existential interests- i.e. those interests which, if not achieved, will allow the destruction of American - and work outwards from there.

America does not have a purpose. It does not have an interest. It is a third of a billion people pulling in all directions. Unsurprisingly, not much gets accomplished. It is 50 states governors doing what they can. Why would you think it could have a single purpose? America isn't purposeful like an ant colony with a queen. It is more like 50 ant colonies of all different and competing species, or 3,000 at the county level, or 20,000 ant colonies at the city and town level. It will be conflict after conflict. There will not be "A Purpose" for a country organized like that.

You can see that more clearly by comparing the decision making of an American Congress plus the President to decision making by the Kim Dynasty. When a Kim gives an order, people either obey or they die. A government with a Kim at the top will have a purpose. It is whatever the Kim wants, the Kim gets. There are stories about different Kims at different times over the decades having their political enemies murdered. When was the last time a President murdered a Bureaucrat, a General, or a member of his family? When was the last time a President started a famine that kills a million Americans? It has been longer than the last time a Kim did those things. A Kim has "A Purpose". A Congress or a Trump don't. All America has hundreds of millions of conflicting interests.

Would a Kim say the following? “Who knows what’s going to happen?” said Trump, who added that if the meeting takes place, “I may leave fast or we may sit down and make the greatest deal for the world.” Kim will have a clear purpose when he goes into a meeting with Trump. Trump won't. It will be all hot Trump air. Anything he promises or agrees to will have to be ratified by Congress, which will argue for months then come to a compromise or not. Who knows with those purposeless people with their conflicting interests? If Kim makes a decision in that meeting with Trump, nobody in North Korea will tell him to modify it.

www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles/trump-says-north-korea-
talks-could-fail-or-bring-greatest-deal-idUSKCN1GM0TU

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THGRRI

Sunday, March 11, 2018 7:40 PM (P)

American has given the world a templet that others can recreate. Ideals of liberty, equality, and the right to pursue one's own happiness.

T

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, March 11, 2018 9:22 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SUCH SACRIFICE?

I think it's time YOU asked yourself the questions, SECOND: What are America's important interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Let's start with American existential interests- i.e. those interests which, if not achieved, will allow the destruction of American - and work outwards from there.
America does not have a purpose. It does not have an interest. It is a third of a billion people pulling in all directions. Unsurprisingly, not much gets accomplished. It is 50 states governors doing what they can. Why would you think it could have a single purpose? America isn't purposeful like an ant colony with a queen. It is more like 50 ant colonies of all different and competing species, or 3,000 at the county level, or 20,000 ant colonies at the city and town level. It will be conflict after conflict. There will not be "A Purpose" for a country organized like that.

You can see that more clearly by comparing the decision making of an American Congress plus the President to decision making by the Kim Dynasty. When a Kim gives an order, people either obey or they die. A government with a Kim at the top will have a purpose. It is whatever the Kim wants, the Kim gets. There are stories about different Kims at different times over the decades having their political enemies murdered. When was the last time a President murdered a Bureaucrat, a General, or a member of his family? When was the last time a President started a famine that kills a million Americans? It has been longer than the last time a Kim did those things. A Kim has "A Purpose". A Congress or a Trump don't. All America has hundreds of millions of conflicting interests.

Would a Kim say the following? “Who knows what’s going to happen?” said Trump, who added that if the meeting takes place, “I may leave fast or we may sit down and make the greatest deal for the world.” Kim will have a clear purpose when he goes into a meeting with Trump. Trump won't. It will be all hot Trump air. Anything he promises or agrees to will have to be ratified by Congress, which will argue for months then come to a compromise or not. Who knows with those purposeless people with their conflicting interests? If Kim makes a decision in that meeting with Trump, nobody in North Korea will tell him to modify it.

www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles/trump-says-north-korea-
talks-could-fail-or-bring-greatest-deal-idUSKCN1GM0TU

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Sound's more and more like Second is the Communist I've suspected he is.

A fan of the Borg, are ya?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Sunday, March 11, 2018 11:00 PM (P)

Quote:
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SUCH SACRIFICE?
I think it's time YOU asked yourself the questions, SECOND: What are America's important interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Let's start with American existential interests- i.e. those interests which, if not achieved, will allow the destruction of America (ed) - and work outwards from there. - SIGNY

America does not have a purpose. - SECOND

That wasn't my question. There is a difference between "purpose" and "interest"

Quote:
It does not have an interest. It is a third of a billion people pulling in all directions.- SECOND

Hmm... but MOST of them are pulling in the direction of at least trying to stay alive, so it's not as random as you portray.

Quote:
Unsurprisingly, not much gets accomplished. - SECOND

A lot of work is being done. Things are made, people are healed, children are educated (or at least warehoused); yes, much of our work is trivial but still, a lot of people manage to keep body and soul together, take care of their families, and join their communities. I guess you don't think the physical survival of so many people is much of an accomplishment? Wow, you really must hate Americans!

Quote:
It is 50 states governors doing what they can. Why would you think it could have a single purpose? America isn't purposeful like an ant colony with a queen. It is more like 50 ant colonies of all different and competing species, or 3,000 at the county level, or 20,000 ant colonies at the city and town level. It will be conflict after conflict. There will not be "A Purpose" for a country organized like that.- SECOND

But that's not my question. My question is ... what are Americans' INTERESTS? Plus, who said it had to be only one? Certainly not me! I've explicitly said that there are more than one.

So, what is coming thru sounds to me like you despise Americans for being random, "purposeless" creatures who will sacrifice nothing for a larger, unified purpose. Am I correct? Or is this a total misread of your emotion?

Quote:
You can see that more clearly by comparing the decision making of an American Congress plus the President to decision making by the Kim Dynasty. When a Kim gives an order, people either obey or they die. A government with a Kim at the top will have a purpose. It is whatever the Kim wants, the Kim gets. There are stories about different Kims at different times over the decades having their political enemies murdered. When was the last time a President murdered a Bureaucrat, a General, or a member of his family?- SECOND

Seth Rich maybe?

Quote:
When was the last time a President started a famine that kills a million Americans? - SECOND

First of all, the famine was because of OUR sanctions, not because of Kim. So is starving a million people a good thing?

Hmm... that last time an American President starved a million people?? Well... HW Bush pushed for - and got- sanctions on Iraq which starved a million people, half a million of which were children, and Madeline Albright said it was "worth it". Was that done without purpose?

Quote:
It has been longer than the last time a Kim did those things.- SECOND

False premise.

Quote:
... All America has hundreds of millions of conflicting interests.- SECOND

Not true. Most of us have the SAME interests.

Quote:
Would a Kim say the following? “Who knows what’s going to happen?” said Trump, who added that if the meeting takes place, “I may leave fast or we may sit down and make the greatest deal for the world.” Kim will have a clear purpose when he goes into a meeting with Trump. Trump won't. It will be all hot Trump air. Anything he promises or agrees to will have to be ratified by Congress, which will argue for months then come to a compromise or not. Who knows with those purposeless people with their conflicting interests? If Kim makes a decision in that meeting with Trump, nobody in North K

THGRRI

Monday, March 12, 2018 12:42 AM (P)

She just can't do it. Sig blames America instead of North Korea for it's plight. Fuck you comrade troll.

T

SIGNYM

Monday, March 12, 2018 2:24 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
She just can't do it. Sig blames America instead of North Korea for it's plight. Fuck you comrade troll. - THUGR

Well, my main point was that SECOND sound almost ... jealous ... of NK's unity of purpose, and seems to despise America's individualism.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, March 12, 2018 2:41 AM (P)

I don't know if jealous is the right word, but there sure did seem to be a lot of admiration for how and why NK does things in Second's post.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Monday, March 12, 2018 4:38 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I don't know if jealous is the right word, but there sure did seem to be a lot of admiration for how and why NK does things in Second's post.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Can I repeat a statistic from this page to answer? Very obviously North Korea has a different interest or purpose than South Korea. Maybe 6ix can see it. Maybe not:

North v South Korea (2013)
Country N.Korea S.Korea
Population 24,720,407 48,955,203
GDP - per capita (PPP), $1,800 $32,400

www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2013/apr/08/south-korea-v-north-kor
ea-compared

North Korea's purpose is to keep the Kim Dynasty in control. At the other extreme, South Korea is very much like America and has millions of purposes, many of them in conflict, most involving money. An abundance of purpose and turmoil. Funny how North Korea has never had turmoil over money.

South Koreans have one purpose that overrides all the others: keep North Korea out of the South. That is definitely a life and death interest for South Koreans, but I am not sure for Trump. Sadly for South Koreans, now that Trump is President and can't focus his brain for more than two minutes before changing the subject, South Koreans still depend on America to provide the nukes to offset North Korea's army and nukes. South Koreans do not want Trump to nuke the North because Northerners are family. They want Trump to keep the Northerners on their side of the border and they don't know if Trump has the brains to do that without killing millions of South Koreans. It is such a problem when the Policeman of the World has gotten so stupid that he (now that Trump replaced retired policeman Obama) might kill you when you call the policeman for help to stop a burglary of your home.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, March 12, 2018 6:21 PM (P)

I wonder what all the innocent brown people who were accidentally killed by Policeman Obama's drone strikes would have to say about him.

Obviously North and South Korea have different interests, and of course South Korea mirrors the US quite a bit since they are a Democratic society. It gets a little strange when talking about the economy of SK though. Their economic system is Capitalist, their social structure is Socialist and their mindsets are Communist.

You seem to love the idea of a country that has one common goal and purpose and a hive like mentality. Are you a Communist, or are you suggesting that America would be much better off if we were to suffer a large threat and use that to band together?

I don't find either idea appealing. We already lived through the second one after 9/11 during GWB's administration and nothing good at all came out of that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Monday, March 12, 2018 9:23 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I wonder what all the innocent brown people who were accidentally killed by Policeman Obama's drone strikes would have to say about him.

Obama did not kill them "accidentally". The Pentagon killed them with their “Ever step on ants and never give it another thought?” In a secluded room at an airbase in Nevada, young men who don’t give a shit hold the power of life and death over people thousands of miles away. Can you blame Obama for a stupid punk of a Republican at a drone’s computer screen not giving a shit? The airmen would be flying the Predators over a village in the tribal areas of Pakistan, say, when a series of smaller black shadows would appear across their screens – telling them that kids were at the scene. They called them “fun-sized terrorists”. The people who would vote for Trump, with all the "reasons" I've heard and read them give, are not reasonable people to trust with life or death decisions.
www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/18/life-as-a-drone-pilot-creech-air
-force-base-nevada

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Obviously North and South Korea have different interests, and of course South Korea mirrors the US quite a bit since they are a Democratic society. It gets a little strange when talking about the economy of SK though. Their economic system is Capitalist, their social structure is Socialist and their mindsets are Communist.

You seem to love the idea of a country that has one common goal and purpose and a hive like mentality. Are you a Communist, or are you suggesting that America would be much better off if we were to suffer a large threat and use that to band together?

I don't find either idea appealing. We already lived through the second one after 9/11 during GWB's administration and nothing good at all came out of that.

You caught me in the mood to answer. I lived in El Lago for years. The Lyndon B Johnson Space Center, named for the President, is 3 miles away. El Lago had astronauts who have gone to the moon, but now it’s just a glorious memory. www.ellago-tx.com/gallery.aspx?AID=4

Why did the space program become only a jobs program, a way to make money? Because America does not have a purpose or interest other than making money, except this one time about going to the moon. And that was only because of the passing phenomenon of LBJ. The whole purpose of NASA switched to money, not space, once LBJ was out of the White House.

It has been a hobby of mine to think of a way for huge science-fictional space projects to be finished. Projects that will never turn a profit, but cost trillions. This is impossible in America or in Firefly’s Alliance where everything is about profit. America’s Moon project was never completed, for example. America went to the moon, but never did the next step of a moon base. Or all the other next steps. There wasn’t any profit. The Alliance never completed the next step: return to Earth and terraform it to again make it inhabitable for humans. Centuries have passed, but the Alliance never returned to Earth because there wasn’t any profit.

What kind of government would arise to make its purpose resettlement of millions on Earth? The dynamics would be a North Korea vs America relationship between that government and the Alliance. The Alliance would be hostile to any competing government building starships for moving a whole civilization and all that machinery back to Earth.

A comic story covering that government competing with the Alliance, I think, could be a whole series of Firefly comic books, one per month, for at least 100 months. The crew of Serenity would be right in the middle of it. The ending is when Serenity with crew becomes the cargo on a Mars bound starship. It would be a much better story then the one in the existing comics. It would also be a more entertaining story than how North Korea built intercontinental ballistic missiles and H-bombs.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:32 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I wonder what all the innocent brown people who were accidentally killed by Policeman Obama's drone strikes would have to say about him.
Obama did not kill them "accidentally". The Pentagon killed them with their “Ever step on ants and never give it another thought?” In a secluded room at an airbase in Nevada, young men who don’t give a shit hold the power of life and death over people thousands of miles away. Can you blame Obama for a stupid punk of a Republican at a drone’s computer screen not giving a shit? The airmen would be flying the Predators over a village in the tribal areas of Pakistan, say, when a series of smaller black shadows would appear across their screens – telling them that kids were at the scene. They called them “fun-sized terrorists”. The people who would vote for Trump, with all the "reasons" I've heard and read them give, are not reasonable people to trust with life or death decisions.

Okay. I'll play your game.

Why did neither of two things happen here?

1. Obama didn't make this stop, or even bring any attention to it. It seems like the man who got a Nobel Peace Prize would have every reason to speak out against this while it was happening under his watch.

2. The media didn't say a damn thing about it. I've got to hear every conspiracy theorist link to Russia and what Trump's diet is on a daily basis, but while Obama was president these drone strikes happened all the time and didn't get any coverage.

Quote:
You caught me in the mood to answer. I lived in El Lago for years. The Lyndon B Johnson Space Center, named for the President, is 3 miles away. El Lago had astronauts who have gone to the moon, but now it’s just a glorious memory. www.ellago-tx.com/gallery.aspx?AID=4

Why did the space program become only a jobs program, a way to make money? Because America does not have a purpose or interest other than making money, except this one time about going to the moon. And that was only because of the passing phenomenon of LBJ. The whole purpose of NASA switched to money, not space, once LBJ was out of the White House.

It has been a hobby of mine to think of a way for huge science-fictional space projects to be finished. Projects that will never turn a profit, but cost trillions. This is impossible in America or in Firefly’s Alliance where everything is about profit. America’s Moon project was never completed, for example. America went to the moon, but never did the next step of a moon base. Or all the other next steps. There wasn’t any profit. The Alliance never completed the next step: return to Earth and terraform it to again make it inhabitable for humans. Centuries have passed, but the Alliance never returned to Earth because there wasn’t any profit.

What kind of government would arise to make its purpose resettlement of millions on Earth? The dynamics would be a North Korea vs America relationship between that government and the Alliance. The Alliance would be hostile to any competing government building starships for moving a whole civilization and all that machinery back to Earth.

A comic story covering that government competing with the Alliance, I think, could be a whole series of Firefly comic books, one per month, for at least 100 months. The crew of Serenity would be right in the middle of it. The ending is when Serenity with crew becomes the cargo on a Mars bound starship. It would be a much better story then the one in the existing comics. It would also be a more entertaining story than how North Korea built intercontinental ballistic missiles and H-bombs.

So... the question is how to monetize and incentivize space exploration.

The Democrats are extremely good at thinking up and enacting tax schemes to manipulate individual behavior (cigarette taxes, etc.).

Come up with a way to do the opposite.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:18 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

So... the question is how to monetize and incentivize space exploration.

The Democrats are extremely good at thinking up and enacting tax schemes to manipulate individual behavior (cigarette taxes, etc.).

Come up with a way to do the opposite.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

A poor as dirt country like North Korea has built intercontinental ballistic missiles and H-bombs. It didn't do it for the money, but rather to glorify its Dear Leader. If North Korea was motivated by money, then nothing would have happened. They would have simply given up and surrendered to the South Koreans, kind of like East Germany surrendered to West Germans, and then North Korea would have become vastly richer, same as happened to East Germany.

As far as monetizing space exploration, that will only take you so far. SpaceX wants to land man on Mars. SpaceX might land a few people on Mars in a suicide mission, but Elon Musk won't keep sending millions of people and billions of tons of supplies to Mars, establishing his self supporting colony that could build its own space ships, because he will run out of money.

What Musk needs is for America to pay him to do it, after he has shown that his technology works. America is not crazy like North Korea. If a Mars colony would glorify Dear Leader, North Korea would colonize Mars and to hell with the cost. America won't. America will not pay what it will take to settle Mars. America might pay for a few missions, after Musk does the first one, just for America's prestige, but that's it, unless there are secret vaults under the dust of Mars full of billion year old artifacts that make Congress greedy for more Martian antiques.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_states_of_Germany#Economy

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:24 PM (P)

Don't ask American taxpayers to pay for it.

I'm sure if you talk to Disney about the idea of making Disneyland Mars and show proof that it could be done then you might be on something though.

The 99% with none of the money have enough to worry about just surviving day to day. This is a rich people problem. You should get to work on this Second.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:46 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Don't ask American taxpayers to pay for it.

I'm sure if you talk to Disney about the idea of making Disneyland Mars and show proof that it could be done then you might be on something though.

The 99% with none of the money have enough to worry about just surviving day to day. This is a rich people problem. You should get to work on this Second.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Until some North Korean invents Star Trek Warp Drive or discovers Star Wars hyperspace for the glorification of Dear Leader, humanity will not be building starships. Sub-light speed is too expensive for American Capitalism. If going to the stars is being done to make profit, it won't be done. Even in Firefly, humanity went to the stars only because Earth was destroyed. I and Joss Whedon can't think of a more powerful motivation. It wasn't done for the money.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:25 PM (P)

Well, great.

You'll forgive me if I don't pray for the destruction of Earth and/or America being turned into a Dictatorship with a President and God as commander in our future so we can have our own Fireflys.

Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy that ridiculous amount of cash you've got that you do no good with because reasons.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:42 AM (P)

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Wednesday, March 14, 2018 8:35 PM (P)

North Korea Builds Missile Monuments Before Trump Meet

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-builds-missile-monuments-befo
re-trump-meet/ar-BBKbhA5?ocid=spartandhp

North Korea has apparently begun building monuments to the recently developed intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) that placed the U.S. within the country's trajectory for the first time ever, according to satellite imagery and expert analysis.

David Schmerler, a research associate at the Monterey, California-based James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies, shared on Saturday overhead photographs of what appeared to be a monument being constructed at the site of the November Hwasong-15 ICBM launch and two more at the site of both of Hwasong-14's launches in July. The tests were the culmination of decades of military development initiated by Kim's grandfather, inherited by his father and rapidly accelerated since Kim took over in 2011. . . .

Kim and Trump's unpredictable approaches to diplomacy have made it difficult for observers to ascertain their motives. Both of their governments have steadfastly refused to make concessions, but South Korea has claimed Kim was ready to freeze his missile launches and ultimately denuclearize completely if his country's security could be guaranteed. North Korea has previously indicated its nuclear weapons were only necessary to defend against a hostile U.S. government.

These weapons of mass destruction are a vital talking point in North Korean propaganda, as well as part of Kim's national defense strategy. Kim has yet to formally announce a shift in his nuclear-armed stance, as the U.S. reportedly scheduled the resumption of military drills on the Korean Peninsula and Trump suddenly removed Rex Tillerson in exchange for a more hardline CIA Director Mike Pompeo as head of the State Department.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THGRRI

Wednesday, March 14, 2018 9:11 PM (P)

North Korea looks to it's ally Putin. They've seen him threaten Nukes many times in attempts to back people up. Kim isn't giving up shit.

Kim knows if his people find out that the rest of the world, and in the south live so much better than they, he is dead meat. They're eating tree bark, grass and paper. Physically they are several inches shorter than their counterparts in the south.

We've been down this road with North Korea before.

T

SECOND

Wednesday, March 14, 2018 10:03 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
North Korea looks to it's ally Putin. They've seen him threaten Nukes many times in attempts to back people up. Kim isn't giving up shit.

Kim knows if his people find out that the rest of the world, and in the south live so much better than they, he is dead meat. They're eating tree bark, grass and paper. Physically they are several inches shorter than their counterparts in the south.

We've been down this road with North Korea before.

1994: North Korea and the United States sign an agreement. Among other stipulations, North Korea pledges to freeze and eventually dismantle its old, graphite-moderated nuclear reactors in exchange for international aid to build two new light-water nuclear reactors. The GOP would NOT pay for those reactors. The South Koreans started work, but didn't finish because they were expecting to be paid. Maybe the South Korean government should have stepped in and paid the contractor when the GOP wouldn't, but it didn't. Bush definitely killed those nuclear reactors with his Axis of Evil speech in 2002. In 2003, January 10 - North Korea withdraws from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. In February, North Korea reactivated a five-megawatt nuclear reactor at its Yongbyon facility, capable of producing plutonium for weapons.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THGRRI

Friday, March 16, 2018 11:24 PM (P)

North Korea nuclear reactors show new signs of activity

New satellite imagery examined by Western experts suggests North Korea has begun preliminary testing of one of its nuclear reactors at the Yongbyon research facility. The disclosure comes as preparations get underway for the summit between North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and South Korean President Moon Jae-in next month -- and ahead of Kim's planned meeting with President Trump in May.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-nuclear-reactors-show
-new-signs-of-activity/ar-BBKhdWI?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=spartanntp

T

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, March 16, 2018 11:33 PM (P)

This sounds like a cheering section for Kim.

You guys getting that desperate to find enemies of Trump?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Friday, March 23, 2018 11:08 PM (P)

Trump has chosen John Bolton to be his new national security advisor, he announced via tweet yesterday. Bolton penned a column on Feb 28th for the Wall Street Journal entitled “The Legal Case for Striking North Korea First.”
www.wsj.com/articles/the-legal-case-for-striking-north-korea-first-151
9862374

Bolton rolled out the dependable formula: First he set out who was being naive—in this case, anyone opposed a pre-emptive military strike against North Korea. Such thinkers are using outdated standards that apply more to the 1800s than to the age of ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons, he argued.

Bolton then praised two former US presidents—Franklin D. Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan—for taking pre-emptive measures for the sake of national security. Roosevelt “vastly extended America’s ‘waters of self defense'” in the face of Nazi aggression, while Reagan extended US territorial waters, “making it harder for Soviet spy ships to gather information.” Bolton added: “In short, both Roosevelt and Reagan acted unilaterally to adjust to new realities… They adjusted the measures to reality, not the reverse.”

Bolton ends the piece with, “It is perfectly legitimate for the United States to respond to the current ‘necessity’ posed by North Korea’s nuclear weapons by striking first.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THGRRI

Friday, March 23, 2018 11:31 PM (P)

Jack suggests we are hoping for a North Korean victory. That's because that's the way jack thinks. He believes we base our opinions about things the way he does. Without knowledge, forethought and biases. His street corner logic matches that of an uneducated 5th grader.

T

SECOND

Friday, March 23, 2018 11:44 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Jack suggests we are hoping for a North Korean victory. That's because that's the way jack thinks. He acts as though we base our opinions about things the way he does. Without knowledge, forethought and biases. He street corner logic matches that of an uneducated 5th grader.

T

We were hoping for a victory in Iraq, too. And how did that end? John Bolton was credibly accused of manipulating US intelligence on weapons of mass destruction. Now Bolton is the new national security adviser. This time around, Bolton wants war with North Korea.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR20050428018
74.html

The replacement of H.R. McMaster with John Bolton takes a reckless, confrontational president and ensconces him in an informational architecture that will now be erected by a reckless, confrontational national security adviser.

“This is by far the most important national security position in our government,” writes Kelly Magsamen, vice president for national security and international policy at the liberal Center for American Progress. “Why? Because this person is the one in charge of shaping and framing national security decisions for the President.”

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/23/17155242/donald-trump-john-b
olton-firing-staff-national-security

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THGRRI

Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:13 AM (P)

Iraq was a major mistake and I hate Bolton. We need to remember though second. Everybody makes mistakes and I know of no one who served this country that didn't have some stupid ideas.

It's easy to pick apart a country. It's much harder to put things into perspective and realize real growth. Look at how things have changed for the better here in the last 100 years. We are a work in progress and Trump is just a hiccup. If the rule of law holds we will continue down a worthy path.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Jack suggests we are hoping for a North Korean victory. That's because that's the way jack thinks. He acts as though we base our opinions about things the way he does. Without knowledge, forethought and biases. He street corner logic matches that of an uneducated 5th grader.

T
We were hoping for a victory in Iraq, too. And how did that end? John Bolton was credibly accused of manipulating US intelligence on weapons of mass destruction. Now Bolton is the new national security adviser. This time around, Bolton wants war with North Korea.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR20050428018
74.html

The replacement of H.R. McMaster with John Bolton takes a reckless, confrontational president and ensconces him in an informational architecture that will now be erected by a reckless, confrontational national security adviser.

“This is by far the most important national security position in our government,” writes Kelly Magsamen, vice president for national security and international policy at the liberal Center for American Progress. “Why? Because this person is the one in charge of shaping and framing national security decisions for the President.”

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/23/17155242/donald-trump-john-b
olton-firing-staff-national-security

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]

T

SECOND

Saturday, March 24, 2018 6:31 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Iraq was a major mistake and I hate Bolton. We need to remember though second. Everybody makes mistakes and I know of no one who served this country that didn't have some stupid ideas.

It's easy to pick apart a country. It's much harder to put things into perspective and realize real growth. Look at how things have changed for the better here in the last 100 years. We are a work in progress and Trump is just a hiccup. If the rule of law holds we will continue down a worthy path.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Jack suggests we are hoping for a North Korean victory. That's because that's the way jack thinks. He acts as though we base our opinions about things the way he does. Without knowledge, forethought and biases. He street corner logic matches that of an uneducated 5th grader.

T
We were hoping for a victory in Iraq, too. And how did that end? John Bolton was credibly accused of manipulating US intelligence on weapons of mass destruction. Now Bolton is the new national security adviser. This time around, Bolton wants war with North Korea.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR20050428018
74.html

The replacement of H.R. McMaster with John Bolton takes a reckless, confrontational president and ensconces him in an informational architecture that will now be erected by a reckless, confrontational national security adviser.

“This is by far the most important national security position in our government,” writes Kelly Magsamen, vice president for national security and international policy at the liberal Center for American Progress. “Why? Because this person is the one in charge of shaping and framing national security decisions for the President.”

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/23/17155242/donald-trump-john-b
olton-firing-staff-national-security

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]

T

Not everybody makes the kind of mistakes Bolton and 6ix have. Some people are just obstinately fucked up ignoramuses. Fortunately for the world, they are powerless. But Bolton will be working closely with powerful Trump and Trump's opinion gets swayed back and forth by whoever last talked to him.

Question at https://goo.gl/C4vutk : Does Bolton’s appointment make war with North Korea or Iran more likely?

Tom Nichols :
I think he’ll want to go to war, but I’m not convinced that he’ll succeed. Washington’s a big place with a pretty strong bureaucracy, and there’s an entire defense department that Bolton won’t control. Also, the Trump White House is chaotic. My biggest fear in the early days of the Trump administration was, “What would happen if all these people were competent? What happens if Michael Flynn and Steve Bannon turn out to be smart and effective?”

But they were all swallowed by the chaos of the administration, and got very little done. So I’m not convinced that Bolton is going to magically bring all this coherence to the West Wing. What he will be able to do is snuff out a lot of dissenting voices because of his proximity to the president, and that is certainly a concern.

Q: I guess the major worry is that nearly all of the so-called “adults in the room” have been purged. Defense Secretary James Mattis is the only man left standing at this point. That might increase Bolton’s influence.

Tom Nichols :
Yes, that worries me. But I think a lot depends on who would replace Mattis in the event that he leaves. Historically, when there’s a clash between the defense secretary and the National Security Adviser (NSA), the defense secretary wins. The NSA is

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, March 24, 2018 8:53 PM (P)

lol. Whatever you say, comrades.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:53 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol. Whatever you say, comrades.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Remember this, 6ix: you are living in reduced circumstances because you have refused to function well. Why, I'll never know. You have got the brains and energy needed to succeed, but you just won't do what needs to be done. Maybe somebody in your family needs to kick your ass ten times a day and tell you to stop blaming the government, start blaming yourself? You make stupid decisions. Remember, you were the guy that believed in Trump, voted for him, until you stopped believing. Laugh out loud at yourself. Then go and do something today with your life better than typing "lol. Whatever you say" You are making yourself into an ignoramus, 6ix, when you are so much better, smarter than that.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Monday, May 14, 2018 11:39 PM (P)

Why are we taking Donald Trump’s Korea diplomacy seriously?
www.vox.com/2018/5/14/17343860/donald-trump-korea-diplomacy

“President Trump has kept Kim Jong Un off balance” and “I think this is positive that the president and Kim Jong Un are going to turn toward diplomacy because we were headed for a collision with North Korea.”

Back in the real world, meanwhile, Trump isn’t a master strategist keeping the North Koreans off balance. He’s an erratic guy with poor impulse control and little understanding of issues who does things like blurt out that Americans held captive in North Korea and sentenced to serve in labor camps received “excellent” treatment from the regime that used them as hostages.

And there are at least three big ways this could end up going badly:

1) Trump could make a big show of a decisive diplomatic breakthrough at some strategically opportune moment in the fall to try to gain the upper hand in the midterm elections, only for the actual details to prove meaningless when there’s time for analysis later.

2) Trump could sell out American interests by agreeing to an unfavorable deal, simply for the sake of the positive PR of a major breakthrough — with Republicans in Congress backing him up out of partisanship and nobody able to do anything about it for years.

3) Trump could show up in Singapore, discover that Kim is not in fact interested in the kind of thorough disarmament that Trump has in mind, and then, feeling miffed by the North Koreans, embrace National Security Adviser John Bolton’s preference for an unprovoked American military strike.

Instead of talking about these risks, however, the mainstream press — Time, the New York Times, CNN, etc. — seems obsessed with the possibility that maybe Trump will deliver a historic diplomatic breakthrough with Pyongyang and then not receive the level of credit and adulation he deserves.

I’m happy to admit that it is, at least in theory, possible that a vainglorious, dishonest, ignorant, and corrupt president who is already lying about his own diplomatic initiatives will shock the world by delivering something fantastic. But Trump has been in the public eye for decades, has a well-deserved reputation as a braggart and a liar, and deserves to be met with nothing but skepticism.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Wednesday, May 16, 2018 6:04 PM (P)

Full Text: North Korea calls John Bolton repugnant and threatens to bail on summit with Trump

North Korea issued two statements today, one taking offense at the US-South Korea military drills currently taking place, and hinting they were jeopardizing the much-awaited summit between Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un. The other, from a senior North Korean diplomat, was far more strongly worded and warned that the Trump administration’s statements on denuclearization were leading it to “reconsider” attending the summit, slated for June 12 in Singapore.

Here’s the text of that statement as put out by the state-run Korean Central News Agency (emphasis in the original). https://qz.com/1279247

It ended with these words:

". . . if the U.S. is trying to drive us into a corner to force our unilateral nuclear abandonment, we will no longer be interested in such dialogue and cannot but reconsider our proceeding to the DPRK-U.S. summit."

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Wednesday, May 16, 2018 6:09 PM (P)

North Korea has often alternated between belligerence and diplomacy in decades past, with fear followed by hope followed by disappointment and back to fear.

Given all this, Pyongyang’s sudden shift in tone isn’t as surprising as it first seems. It might even be considered predictable.

https://qz.com/1279066

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

JJ

Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:54 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI on 3/9/2018

This came out of nowhere. It appears Trump suggested to the South Koreans this should happen. He spoke to no one before hand. No advisors or anyone knowledgeable about North Korea to see if this was a good idea. He just set it up.

Bam, North Korea jumped at it. Trump had said the North had to denuclearize before talks. I guess he changed his mind.

Don't misunderstand, I want a miracle here. I am rooting Trump succeeds. I just don't' see it. He can't even negotiate successfully with a porn star. So far every foreign leader he has meet with has cleaned his clock.

T

SIGNYM

Thursday, May 24, 2018 8:44 PM (P)

Quote:
Trump cancels summit with North Korea's Kim

SEOUL - President Trump called off a planned summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un due to what he said was Kim's "tremendous anger and open hostility," even after North Korea followed through on a pledge to blow up tunnels at its nuclear test site.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles/north-korea-blo
ws-up-nuclear-test-tunnels-amid-doubts-over-summit-idUSKCN1IP1RY

Well, THAT didn't last long! It'll be interesting to hear the Trump supporters (who claim that the peace talks have already happened and that an agreement was already hammered out) explain THIS away.

To some extent I agree with KIKI: The NK'ans couldn't use their test facility anyway, and their very public destruction of it was simply giving up a dead-ish point under the most favorable of circumstances: to pressure the USA into giving something else up as well. But Pence's shooting off at the mouth I think kind of scotched the deal, especially his reference to Libya, which famously gave up its nuclear ambitions only to be destroyed by the west anyway.

Well, Pence was never really on Team Trump anyway. I have heard that there are still deep-staters in the bureaucracy and the WH; Pence may have torpedoed the talks on purpose.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SECOND

Friday, May 25, 2018 7:29 AM (P)

Donald Trump’s surprise cancellation of a planned summit with Kim Jong Un via a plaintive letter on White House stationary Thursday (May 23) quickly became a joke in the US Senate and the subject of mocking editorial cartoons. But the move reportedly was a complete shock to Kim’s government, and may put a group of foreign reporters inside the country at risk; North Korea has a history of taking hostages.

Negotiating with North Korea’s volatile dictator, as anyone with any knowledge about the Korean peninsula could tell you, was always going to be fraught with pitfalls. Further complicating matters, advisors within the White House seemed split on how to handle Kim, and the US president insists in general on ignoring diplomatic experts.

So where was Trump taking his cues from on North Korea? Famously, a handful of opinionated television and radio personalities exercise an out-sized influence on the US president. Trump finds Fox News’ coverage of his administration so soothing that his press office makes sure that he barely watches anything else, New York magazine reported this month. Trump calls talk show host Sean Hannity as often as several times a day.

These shows urged the president to trumpet his success with North Korea diplomacy, even though the tricky details of the meeting were never worked out. Ahead of today’s debacle, a succession of opinionated Fox hosts crowed that Trump had succeeded in ‘bringing Kim to the table,’ by agreeing to a meeting, and speculated on whether the president would win a Nobel Peace Prize.

“It was Trump’s genius and crippling economic sanctions that brought this dictator to his knees,” said Fox’s Jeanine Pirro in March. North Korea is “signaling a willingness to hold talks,” said Laura Ingraham in March.“You think that would have happened without Trump’s tough talk and reiterating that all options were on the table? Never. So much for the experts,” she said. Trump is seeing “significant progress” in his diplomacy with North Korea, Sean Hannity said in April.

But years of recent, readily available history show that the Kim regime has often been eager to negotiate deals with past US administrations. The hard part has always been agreeing to and enforcing the details of any accord, as Fox’s own reporters know.

The Trump administration apparently failed to hammer out key details before any meeting date was announced, including what each side meant by denuclearization, the time frame for denuclearization, and how soon North Korea would be rewarded. Officials should have also mapped out what exactly the two leaders would discuss, and how US allies would support US positions.

Instead, Trump was reportedly planning to wing it. His top officials weren’t even on the same page earlier this month, with national security Advisor John Bolton publicly discussing different priorities than secretary of state Mike Pompeo, and mentioning a “Libya model.” (Libyan dictator Muammar al-Qaddafi was killed by his own people after a US-backed invasion.)

North Korea lashed out in response, calling Bolton “repugnant” and leaving Trump little to say on May 16, except that it “may not work out.”

In recent days, Kim’s regime essentially ghosted the Trump administration by not responding to messages. After vice president Mike Pence publicly compared North Korea to Libya this week, its vice foreign minister called Pence a “dummy” and threatened to make the US taste an “appalling tragedy,” an apparent reference to a military strike.

“Trump fell into delusions of grandeur that he would be the guy” to solve North Korea, said Robert E. Kelly, a political science professor at Pusan National University. “The right-wing media bubble in which he operates mirrored that back to him, creating wildly unreal expectations.”

https://qz.com/1287935

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Friday, May 25, 2018 8:33 AM (P)

Quote:
'Trump-style solution'? North Korea says still open to talks after summit canceled

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles/trump-style-sol
ution-north-korea-says-still-open-to-talks-after-summit-canceled-idUSKCN1IQ02Y

Well! It seems KJU is just as unpredictable as DJT!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 25, 2018 11:22 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

In recent days, Kim’s regime essentially ghosted the Trump administration by not responding to messages. After vice president Mike Pence publicly compared North Korea to Libya this week, its vice foreign minister called Pence a “dummy” and threatened to make the US taste an “appalling tragedy,” an apparent reference to a military strike.

Article written by a child, or by an adult still trying to pretend that they are one.

I've never heard anybody over 25 years old use that term before, let alone somebody who wasn't a douchebag youtube and/or reality star.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Friday, May 25, 2018 3:31 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:

In recent days, Kim’s regime essentially ghosted the Trump administration by not responding to messages. After vice president Mike Pence publicly compared North Korea to Libya this week, its vice foreign minister called Pence a “dummy” and threatened to make the US taste an “appalling tragedy,” an apparent reference to a military strike.

Article written by a child, or by an adult still trying to pretend that they are one.

I've never heard anybody over 25 years old use that term before, let alone somebody who wasn't a douchebag youtube and/or reality star.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

An article written by a child, you say? Try another (then complain about its British spelling, 6ixStringJack):

It soon became apparent Trump had no grasp of the North Korean interpretation of what denuclearisation meant.

Between March and May, Trump is reported to have spent little time grappling with the details of how a negotiation might work, focusing instead on the pageantry of the occasion and the staged release of details for the press.

In the vacuum, members of his administration went their own way. His new national security adviser, John Bolton, set out maximalist demands for an immediate surrender of North Korea’s nuclear warheads and related equipment, which were to be shipped out to the US.

The secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, who met Kim face-to-face on two occasions, alternated between insistence on this all-in-one option and a more phased approach. Trump himself signalled he would be ready to accept the latter, exposing some of the US negotiating strategy, such as it was.

Into this swirl, Bolton casually tossed a diplomatic grenade, telling a television interviewer that the US would use the “Libyan model” to approach North Korean disarmament. He had in mind Muammar Gaddafi’s agreement to dismantle and hand over the rudimentary and fledgling nuclear weapons programme at the end of 2003.

To Pyongyang, mention of the Libyan model served as a reminder that eight years after giving up his programme, Gaddafi was overthrown and murdered. Trump and the vice-president, Mike Pence, deepened that impression by warning Kim he would face the same fate as Gaddafi if he did not make a deal.

The threat drew predictable outrage from North Korea – which Trump presented as the reason for aborting the summit.

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/24/trump-kim-north-korea-summit-tra
inwreck-foretold

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 25, 2018 3:53 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
An article written by a child, you say? Try another (then complain about its British spelling, 6ixStringJack):

Why would I do that. Any of the words we spell differently are because we're spelling them wrong.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Friday, May 25, 2018 5:58 PM (P)

The Swedes might announce soon: We are honored to give Donald Trump the Nobel Peace Prize for pulling out of the Iran Deal, moving his embassy to Jerusalem, making death threats against all North Koreans and impulsively canceling the Singapore Peace Summit when Kim Jong-un reacts to Trump’s threats. Once again, it’s Trump big talk that accomplishes nothing. It’s all Trump has ever been good at.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/05/on-the-border-trump-is-both-cru
el-and-incompetent/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 25, 2018 6:09 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
The Swedes might announce soon: We are honored to give Donald Trump the Nobel Peace Prize for pulling out of the Iran Deal, moving his embassy to Jerusalem, making death threats against all North Koreans and impulsively canceling the Singapore Peace Summit when Kim Jong-un reacts to Trump’s threats. Once again, it’s Trump big talk that accomplishes nothing. It’s all Trump has ever been good at.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/05/on-the-border-trump-is-both-cru
el-and-incompetent/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Great. We can have two Presidents in a row receive the Nobel Peace Prize that did nothing to deserve it.

Hey. Maybe we could bump somebody off the list that got it before and retroactively give GWB one too, since apparently it means nothing anymore.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Saturday, May 26, 2018 12:45 AM (P)

Somewhere in SECOND's multiple complaints about Trump was one on the ZTE deal. I can't find it now, but SECOND was convinced that it had to do with a $500 million Chinese loan to one of Trumps' ventures, in Indonesia I believe. I thought it had more to do with bringing North Korea back to the table.

Quote:
Just hours after North Korea came creeping back to the negotiating table with President Trump - following his cancellation of the Kim Summit talks, comments that he suspected China was behind Kim's change of heart, and chatter that Trump "would take a much harder line on China" - Fox News reports that a "tentative" deal has been reached with China's President Xi over the giant Chinese telecoms company ZTE.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

JJ

Saturday, May 26, 2018 4:32 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:09 PM

This came out of nowhere. It appears Trump suggested to the South Koreans this should happen. He spoke to no one before hand. No advisors or anyone knowledgeable about North Korea to see if this was a good idea. He just set it up.

Bam, North Korea jumped at it. Trump had said the North had to denuclearize before talks. I guess he changed his mind.

Don't misunderstand, I want a miracle here. I am rooting Trump succeeds. I just don't' see it. He can't even negotiate successfully with a porn star. So far every foreign leader he has meet with has cleaned his clock.

T

SECOND

Saturday, May 26, 2018 6:30 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Somewhere in SECOND's multiple complaints about Trump was one on the ZTE deal. I can't find it now, but SECOND was convinced that it had to do with a $500 million Chinese loan to one of Trumps' ventures, in Indonesia I believe. I thought it had more to do with bringing North Korea back to the table.

Quote:
Just hours after North Korea came creeping back to the negotiating table with President Trump - following his cancellation of the Kim Summit talks, comments that he suspected China was behind Kim's change of heart, and chatter that Trump "would take a much harder line on China" - Fox News reports that a "tentative" deal has been reached with China's President Xi over the giant Chinese telecoms company ZTE.

Signym, you have the most screwed up memory. The story was that Trump took a half billion dollar bribe from the Chinese government then he saved, with a tweet, a Chinese company from bankruptcy. It is not about Korea.

Trump helps banned Chinese phone maker ZTE after China delivers a big loan to a Trump project.

Many Republicans in Congress are clearly aware that something fishy is happening with ZTE. But while they have extensive oversight powers that could be used to check Trump’s conflicts of interest, they decline to use any of them, leaving America to depend on nothing more than Trump’s say-so.

Trump stands to gain from an Indonesian project that got a $500 million loan right before he flip-flopped on ZTE, a banned phone maker. A Chinese state-owned company came through with hundreds of millions of dollars which will pay for construction of Trump-branded properties in Indonesia.

Asked at Monday’s press briefing about the business deal in Indonesia, White House deputy press secretary Raj Shah punted questions to the Trump Organization, saying, “You’re asking about a private organization’s dealings.”

And the Trump Organization, as a privately held business, has no obligation to answer skeptical questions from the public. The obligation to answer questions rests with the White House, and the questionable conduct is on the part of the US president.

Way back in January 2017, Trump attorney Sheri Dillon reassured the public that “no new foreign deals will be made whatsoever during the duration of President Trump’s presidency.” Ha-ha-ha!

She was, obviously, misleading people about that and doing so on behalf of Trump. A company that he owns and that is run by his sons — sons who also serve as close political advisers — is doing business all around the world, including with foreign governments, at the same time that Trump is doing multifaceted international negotiations with those same governments.

The chronology of the Chinese loan to Trump and Trump's flip-flop on banning ZTE, a Chinese company, are here:
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/15/17355202/trump-zte-indonesia
-lido-city

Trump tweets ZTE will overhaul its management to continue US business
https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/25/trump-says-zte-will-pay-1-3b-fine-an
d-overhaul-its-management-to-continue-us-business/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Saturday, May 26, 2018 6:34 PM (P)

From Trump “lawyer” Rudy Giuliani on the likelihood of Trump’s summit with Kim Jong-un being rescheduled:

Quote:
I think it is more inevitable than a Mueller interview. At least they’re not going to try to trap him into Korean perjury.

Trump’s legal team is endlessly obsessed with the idea that Trump will commit perjury if he ever sits down with Robert Mueller. I wonder why that is?
https://goo.gl/1JnZ9L

Trump was dismayed by Pyongyang’s bellicose rhetoric, the same theatrics Trump often deploys against his adversaries. The president was concerned Kim was maneuvering to back out of the summit and make Americans look like desperate suitors.

So Trump called it off first.

The result was a crushing disappointment for a president eager to achieve a peace accord. Not just Trump was disappointed: 'No Nobel Peace Prize for Trump': South Koreans slam cancellation of summit. Many South Koreans were fuming on Friday after U.S. President Donald Trump canceled a historic summit with North Korea's Kim Jong Un, feeling they had been cheated of a chance of a lifetime to live in peace.

“North Korea was in the process of doing everything that had been demanded of it. They even detonated their nuclear test site,” said Eugene Lim, a 29-year-old office worker in Seoul. “Trump has no interest in peace in our country. Why can’t he just let us, the two Koreas, live in peace?”
https://goo.gl/G7bU3o

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

JJ

Saturday, May 26, 2018 7:59 PM (P)

T

1KIKI

Sunday, May 27, 2018 8:57 AM (P)

I think your planning for the funeral is premature.

North Korea Willing to Talk About 'Complete Denuclearization'
New York Times-3 minutes ago
SEOUL, South Korea — The leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-un, said during a surprise summit meeting that he is determined to meet ...

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

SECOND

Monday, May 28, 2018 6:30 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I think your planning for the funeral is premature.

North Korea Willing to Talk About 'Complete Denuclearization'
New York Times-3 minutes ago
SEOUL, South Korea — The leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-un, said during a surprise summit meeting that he is determined to meet ...

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

Ever heard of the word demagogue? A political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument. It is not rational for Trump to cancel his summit with North Korea than immediately turn around and say it is back on. Except maybe it is not. No one knows except Trump. He wants to keep the spotlight on himself. He is dramatically playing to his audience in America. They want a big show and he is giving it to them, even if he has to stop acting rational and start throwing tantrums and hints that he might cancel after all. Or he might go to war with North Korea. Or he might end sanctions against Kim. Or he might have Seal Team 6 assassinate Kim. Or he might give North Korea $billions in economic aid. "We'll see" as Trump has said thousands of times as President. What Trump is doing is all drama and completely nuts.

Trump-Kim summit: Is it still on?
www.cnn.com/2018/05/28/asia/north-korea-whats-happening-intl/index.htm
l

Philip Roth’s 2004 warning about demagogues is more relevant than ever
Philip Roth, Donald Trump, and The Plot Against America.
www.vox.com/2018/5/28/17393268/philip-roth-trump-death-plot-america-bo
ok-fiction

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

JJ

Monday, May 28, 2018 8:38 PM (P)

I don't think there is anyway North Korea is going to denuclearize, and anyway Trump is going to be the American President who puts any policy in place that allows for them to keep them.

How can Trump accept anything except complete denuclearize of Korea when he just walked away from the Iran deal? Think about it folks. The man put himself in a box the moment he did that.

What a fucking moron
T

SECOND

Tuesday, May 29, 2018 6:39 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JJ:
I don't think there is anyway North Korea is going to denuclearize, and anyway Trump is going to be the American President who puts any policy in place that allows for them to keep them.

How can Trump accept anything except complete denuclearize of Korea when he just walked away from the Iran deal? Think about it folks. The man put himself in a box the moment he did that.

What a fucking moron
T

Good old Trump, eager for a Nobel Peace Prize, is so happy that a murderer who is on both the American and the S Korean blacklists is coming to New York. If Trump wasn’t so dense, he would know that the correct response would be to NOT allow the murderer a visa and then North Korea would send someone else. But the North Koreans are very aware that Trump is screwed up in the head. Why wouldn’t they test Trump to see if he fails to react sensibly to a murderer? https://qz.com/1291255

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Kim Young Chol, the Vice Chairman of North Korea, heading now to New York. Solid response to my letter, thank you!
3:30 AM - 29 May 2018

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, May 29, 2018 6:56 PM (P)

Seems more sensible to have somebody sent here than to send somebody there.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JJ

Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:34 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by JJ:
I don't think there is anyway North Korea is going to denuclearize, and anyway Trump is going to be the American President who puts any policy in place that allows for them to keep them.

How can Trump accept anything except complete denuclearize of Korea when he just walked away from the Iran deal? Think about it folks. The man put himself in a box the moment he did that.

What a fucking moron
T
Good old Trump, eager for a Nobel Peace Prize, is so happy that a murderer who is on both the American and the S Korean blacklists is coming to New York. If Trump wasn’t so dense, he would know that the correct response would be to NOT allow the murderer a visa and then North Korea would send someone else. But the North Koreans are very aware that Trump is screwed up in the head. Why wouldn’t they test Trump to see if he fails to react sensibly to a murderer? https://qz.com/1291255

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Kim Young Chol, the Vice Chairman of North Korea, heading now to New York. Solid response to my letter, thank you!
3:30 AM - 29 May 2018

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]

As I've said, Trumps refusal to learn any of the history needed to negotiate with foreign leaders has him being owned by them all. Save us please; somebody.

Again, what a fuck up.

T

SECOND

Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:30 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Seems more sensible to have somebody sent here than to send somebody there.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

It makes NO SENSE whatsoever, 6ixStringJack, because Trump did not do any steps before agreeing to a meeting.

The Washington Post explains how negotiations are going with North Korea over a possible June 12 summit meeting:

U.S.-North Korea differences over denuclearization remain ‘significant,’ South Korean official says

Right. We want North Korea to get rid of its nukes. North Korea wants to keep its nukes. That’s pretty “significant.” It’s also something that would have been instantly clear if Trump had bothered with the usual sorts of preparation and working-level discussion before he agreed to the meeting in the first place. It’s not as if this is some kind of subtle issue that’s only now popped up out of nowhere.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

JJ

Wednesday, June 6, 2018 1:58 AM (P)

Trump Sidelines Bolton to Keep Peace With North Korea

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/06/trump-sidelines-bolton-to
-keep-peace-pompeo-with-north-korea-summit.html

Trump folds again. Great negotiator my ass. Stupid explains it better.

T

JJ

Thursday, June 7, 2018 4:09 AM (P)

Rudy Giuliani claims Kim Jong Un begged 'on his hands and knees' for meeting with Trump

President Trump’s personal lawyer said North Korean leader Kim Jong Un got “on his hands and knees and begged” for their summit to be held after Trump canceled the sit-down last month, according to a report Wednesday.

Former mayor Rudy Giuliani told the crowd at an investment conference in Israel that Kim came crawling back to the negotiating table last month after Trump scrapped the meeting because senior North Korean officials insulted top Trump administration officials, the Wall Street Journal reported.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-rudy-trump-north-korea
-summit-20180606-story.html

These guys are the biggest bunch of assholes ever, ever.

T

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, June 7, 2018 7:03 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JJ:
Rudy Giuliani claims Kim Jong Un begged 'on his hands and knees' for meeting with Trump

President Trump’s personal lawyer said North Korean leader Kim Jong Un got “on his hands and knees and begged” for their summit to be held after Trump canceled the sit-down last month, according to a report Wednesday.

Former mayor Rudy Giuliani told the crowd at an investment conference in Israel that Kim came crawling back to the negotiating table last month after Trump scrapped the meeting because senior North Korean officials insulted top Trump administration officials, the Wall Street Journal reported.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-rudy-trump-north-korea
-summit-20180606-story.html

These guys are the biggest bunch of assholes ever, ever.

T

Don't worry man. You're right on their heels.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JJ

Thursday, June 28, 2018 6:25 AM (P)

T

SECOND

Saturday, June 30, 2018 4:03 PM (P)

North Korea Is Deliberately Deceiving Trump

After the summit in Singapore, reporters asked President Trump how fast we could expect progress on denuclearization. “It will go pretty quickly,” he said. “The timing will go quickly . . . it’s going to go very quickly. I really believe that it’s going to go fast.”

So how’s Trump's predictions?

North Korea was stepping up its production of enriched uranium for nuclear weapons, five U.S. officials say, citing the latest intelligence assessment.

“There’s no evidence that they are decreasing stockpiles, or that they have stopped their production,” said one U.S. official briefed on the latest intelligence. “There is absolutely unequivocal evidence that they are trying to deceive the U.S.” Four other officials familiar with the intelligence assessment also said North Korea intended to deceive the U.S.

Trump is not paying any attention to his intelligence briefings. If the only information he takes seriously is what he sees each morning on Fox & Friends, then the only way to get his attention is to leak stuff in the hopes that it will show up there.

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/06/intel-community-says-north-kore
a-is-deliberately-deceiving-us/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

JJ

Saturday, June 30, 2018 6:25 PM (P)

Those of us SECOND who said Trump was in no way qualified to be president have been proven right over and over again. The man is a dunce.

T

JJ

Saturday, June 30, 2018 6:40 PM (P)

Trump says he Trusts Kim. What a fucking moron.

T

REAVERFAN

Saturday, June 30, 2018 10:47 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JJ:
Trump says he Trusts Kim. What a fucking moron.

T

]

Reminds me of Bush looking into Pooty's eyes and getting a sense of his soul...

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/trump-says-he-will-name-supreme-court-pi
ck-by-july-9-1267611715688

Yeah, that was some gooooood judgement there, Shrub.

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 3, 2018 1:59 PM (P)

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-02/cia-teams-defense-industry-u
ndermine-korea-negotiations

In a new development that will shock no one, factions within the CIA attempted for the second time in just over a month to undermine President Trump's peace overtures towards North Korea by leaking information calculated to decrease confidence in Kim Jong Un's willingness to earnestly negotiate.

On June 29, 2018, NBC News released a report quoting anonymous CIA officials who claimed that North Korea was increasing nuclear production at "secret sites" without providing any actual evidence for such claims. The report's credibility is further weakened by the fact that it also cited reports from a think tank which has strong connections to the defense industry and other private special interests.

In disseminating their report, the CIA used NBC reporter Ken Dilanian as an outlet for leaks. As Disobedient Media previously reported, Dilanian was outed by the Intercept in 2014 as a CIA asset. In the aftermath of the disclosure, Dilanian's previous employers at the Tribune Washington and Los Angeles Times disavowed the disgraced journalist. In at least one instance, the CIA’s instructions to Dilanian appears to have led to significant changes in a story that was eventually published in the Los Angeles Times.

Since that time, Dilanian has persisted in pushing articles written by former CIA officials who continue to perpetuate the “Trump-Russia” collusion narrative without any regard to facts, such as Steven Hall’s Washington Post article titled: “I was in the CIA. We wouldn’t trust a country whose leader did what Trump did.”

In the absence of hard evidence from the CIA to back their claims about North Korea, Dilanian cited the opinion of Clinton administration official Joel Wit and reports from 38north.org. 38north is a project run by the Henry L. Stimson Center. The Stimson Center's Board of Directors includes individuals associated with organizations such as Northrop Grumman, the Boeing Company, Warburg Pincus, the Carnegie Endowment, Mercy Corps, The Council on Foreign Relations, the Department of Defense, the CIA and US Department of the Treasury. Their Partners include the George C. Marshall Foundation, Saudi Arabia's Gulf Research Center and the Jinnah Institute.

Satellite images circulated by 38north claiming to show improvements to North Korea's Yongbyon Nuclear Scientific Research Center appear to have been obtained from Airbus Defense and Space SAS, a subsidiary of European multinational conglomerate Airbus Group SE. Airbus was the brainchild of Germany's DaimlerChrysler Aerospace and British Aerospace. The association of a German connected transnational group in efforts to undermine Korean peace negotiations is interesting given the strong connections they held with the now scandalized South Korean government of Park Geun-hye.

The involvement of a think tank in a website that is centered around undermining US confidence in North Korea is hardly a surprise given their connections to the military-industrial complex and internationalist special interest groups. Both Northrop Grumman and Boeing have seen their stock's value drop in the aftermath of Trump's Singapore meeting with Kim Jong Un in what analysts saw as a temporary setback to defense stocks. Seeing such corporations use their ties to institutions such as the Stimson Center to collaborate with the CIA in an effort to scuttle commitments to North Korean denuclearization and a peace accord between the Koreas and United States represents a new low.

Despite the best efforts of the CIA, President Trump has stated that there is no current nuclear threat from North Korea, and that the Singapore Summit represented a positive interaction with the leader of the so-called "hermit kingdom." Trump has repeatedly highlighted the opportunity for Chairman Kim to engage with the world and begin a new era of "security and prosperity" for North K

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Tuesday, July 3, 2018 5:49 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-02/cia-teams-defense-industry-u
ndermine-korea-negotiations

In a new development that will shock no one, factions within the CIA attempted for the second time in just over a month to undermine President Trump's peace overtures towards North Korea by leaking information calculated to decrease confidence in Kim Jong Un's willingness to earnestly negotiate.

On June 29, 2018, NBC News released a report quoting anonymous CIA officials who claimed that North Korea was increasing nuclear production at "secret sites" without providing any actual evidence for such claims. The report's credibility is further weakened by the fact that it also cited reports from a think tank which has strong connections to the defense industry and other private special interests.

In disseminating their report, the CIA used NBC reporter Ken Dilanian as an outlet for leaks. As Disobedient Media previously reported, Dilanian was outed by the Intercept in 2014 as a CIA asset. In the aftermath of the disclosure, Dilanian's previous employers at the Tribune Washington and Los Angeles Times disavowed the disgraced journalist. In at least one instance, the CIA’s instructions to Dilanian appears to have led to significant changes in a story that was eventually published in the Los Angeles Times.

Since that time, Dilanian has persisted in pushing articles written by former CIA officials who continue to perpetuate the “Trump-Russia” collusion narrative without any regard to facts, such as Steven Hall’s Washington Post article titled: “I was in the CIA. We wouldn’t trust a country whose leader did what Trump did.”

In the absence of hard evidence from the CIA to back their claims about North Korea, Dilanian cited the opinion of Clinton administration official Joel Wit and reports from 38north.org. 38north is a project run by the Henry L. Stimson Center. The Stimson Center's Board of Directors includes individuals associated with organizations such as Northrop Grumman, the Boeing Company, Warburg Pincus, the Carnegie Endowment, Mercy Corps, The Council on Foreign Relations, the Department of Defense, the CIA and US Department of the Treasury. Their Partners include the George C. Marshall Foundation, Saudi Arabia's Gulf Research Center and the Jinnah Institute.

Satellite images circulated by 38north claiming to show improvements to North Korea's Yongbyon Nuclear Scientific Research Center appear to have been obtained from Airbus Defense and Space SAS, a subsidiary of European multinational conglomerate Airbus Group SE. Airbus was the brainchild of Germany's DaimlerChrysler Aerospace and British Aerospace. The association of a German connected transnational group in efforts to undermine Korean peace negotiations is interesting given the strong connections they held with the now scandalized South Korean government of Park Geun-hye.

The involvement of a think tank in a website that is centered around undermining US confidence in North Korea is hardly a surprise given their connections to the military-industrial complex and internationalist special interest groups. Both Northrop Grumman and Boeing have seen their stock's value drop in the aftermath of Trump's Singapore meeting with Kim Jong Un in what analysts saw as a temporary setback to defense stocks. Seeing such corporations use their ties to institutions such as the Stimson Center to collaborate with the CIA in an effort to scuttle commitments to North Korean denuclearization and a peace accord between the Koreas and United States represents a new low.

Despite the best efforts of the CIA, President Trump has stated that there is no current nuclear threat from North Korea, and that the Singapore Summit represented a positive interaction with the leader of the so-called "hermit kingdom." Trump has repeatedly highlighted the opportunity for Chairman Kim to engage with the world and begin a new era of "se

JJ

Saturday, July 7, 2018 8:10 PM (P)

North Korea accuses U.S. of making unilateral demands for denuclearization

SEOUL, South Korea -- North Korea's Foreign Ministry called talks with U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo "regrettable" after his visit this week to Pyongyang and accused the U.S. of making unilateral demands for denuclearization. The statement by an unnamed North Korean Foreign Ministry spokesman on Saturday came hours after Pompeo concluded two days of talks with North Korean officials led by Kim Yong Chol. Pompeo left North Korea without meeting directly with leader Kim Jong Un, as he has during previous visits.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-korea-pompeo-talks-regrettable-accu
ses-u-s-of-unilateral-denuclearization-demands-2018-07-07/

T

REAVERFAN

Saturday, July 7, 2018 8:32 PM (P)

So, more nothing from Blumpy.

He called NK the biggest threat to us (a lie), talked to Un and gave him everything he wanted, NK is still working on nukes, and Bolton still wants war.

His useful idiots lap it up, too stupid to see they're being played.

JJ

Sunday, July 8, 2018 1:38 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
So, more nothing from Blumpy.

He called NK the biggest threat to us (a lie), talked to Un and gave him everything he wanted, NK is still working on nukes, and Bolton still wants war.

His useful idiots lap it up, too stupid to see they're being played.

Those here supporting Trump are what we call losers and lackeys.

T

SECOND

Tuesday, August 21, 2018 7:43 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

In a new development that will shock no one, factions within the CIA attempted for the second time in just over a month to undermine President Trump's peace overtures towards North Korea by leaking information calculated to decrease confidence in Kim Jong Un's willingness to earnestly negotiate. . . .

Despite the best efforts of the CIA, President Trump has stated that there is no current nuclear threat from North Korea . . .

Trump is wrong. The CIA is right:

No indication North Korea nuclear activities stopped: UN's IAEA

Updated: 08:22 EDT, 21 August 2018

North Korea's leader Kim Jong Un and US President Donald Trump held a groundbreaking summit in Singapore in June. At the meeting the pair struck a vague agreement to denuclearise the Korean peninsula, but there has been little movement since. The two leaders are due to meet again in September.

The IAEA has said previously it stands ready to help verify any future agreements between the US and North Korea over Pyongyang's nuclear weapons programme.

The UN's nuclear watchdog said it had not seen any indication that nuclear activities in North Korea have stopped despite its pledges to denuclearise.

"The continuation and further development of the DPRK's nuclear programme and related statements by the DPRK are a cause for grave concern," said a report by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), referring to North Korea's official name.

The report, published late Monday, by director general Yukiya Amano is to be submitted to an IAEA board meeting in September.

In 2009 Pyongyang expelled IAEA inspectors from its Yongbyon nuclear site and has since refused to allow IAEA inspections on its territory.

The watchdog has stepped up monitoring through open source information and satellite imagery, it said.

"As the Agency remains unable to carry out verification activities in the DPRK, its knowledge of the DPRK's nuclear programme is limited and, as further nuclear activities take place in the country, this knowledge is declining," it said.

More at www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-6082595/No-indication-NKorea-nuc
lear-activities-stopped-UNs-IAEA.html

If Trump truly wants denuclearization, it will require verification by experts not working for Kim. If Trump is satisfied with only Kim's word, without requiring the verification, as Trump was after his first meeting with Kim, Trump is being foolish.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THG

Saturday, August 25, 2018 2:48 AM (P)

Whelp folks, it's over. Trump is calling off talks with Korea. Like some of us here said, he is being played. The great negotiator. What a joke. My god this man is an incompetent imbecile.

T

SECOND

Thursday, August 30, 2018 10:57 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Whelp folks, it's over. Trump is calling off talks with Korea. Like some of us here said, he is being played. The great negotiator. What a joke. My god this man is an incompetent imbecile.

T

For Trump this is an ordinary real estate deal. At the closing he asks for more or else he walks out of the deal. He didn't get more so he walked. For Kim this is life or death. Kim's generals will assassinate him if he does not get a peace treaty replacing the 1953 Korean Armistice Agreement BEFORE giving up his nukes.

It all comes down to did Trump break his promise to Kim to sign a Permanent Peace Treaty? To Trump, broken promises are nothing. Tomorrow he makes ten new promises and breaks nine old ones. It all depends on what Trump really promised Kim, and there’s no formal or informal record of that since Trump doesn’t believe in such things. But it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if Trump cavalierly offered a final peace treaty—which Kim took very seriously—and then got talked out of it by his advisers when he got home. If that’s the case, it explains a lot.

According to multiple sources familiar with the negotiations, Trump told Kim Jong Un during their Singapore summit in June that he’d sign a declaration to end the Korean War soon after their meeting.

If Trump really did promise this and then reneged, it would appear to Kim that the United States was once again reverting to its past behavior: making promises and then breaking them at the slightest justification. For example, after the 1994 Agreed Framework was signed, the US routinely missed shipments of heavy fuel oil for N Korea's electric power plants (Kim would shutdown his plutonium producing reactors in exchange for the fuel oil, but if the fuel oil keeps arriving erratically and months too late, Kim has to keep running the reactors to make electricity); failed to build the two light-water reactors it had promised; and refused to remove North Korea from its list of state-sponsored terrorism.

This history convinced Kim that the United States was not a trustworthy negotiating partner. So if it’s happened again, it’s small wonder that Kim is acting badly.

More at www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/08/did-trump-break-his-promise-to-
kim-to-sign-a-permanent-peace-treaty/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THG

Friday, August 31, 2018 7:59 PM (P)

He's a fucking moron. The Chinese took advantage of Trumps claims of striking a deal and stopped horning the sanctions we had against North Korea. Trump got played big time because his focus is on looking good. The pomp and ceremony side of negotiations, not how to get this right. He has done big time damage to the United States when it comes to us having an advantage in future negotiations.

And those who voted and lobbied for him to be president are responsible for all his actions. They were to Trible and sick to see what some of us here said about him when he threw his hat into the ring. They scream about having ID in order to vote. I say you need to be smarter than a box of rocks before you can vote. It that were the case none of this would have happened.

T

SECOND

Tuesday, September 4, 2018 4:37 AM (P)

After the summit in June with Kim Jong-un, Trump with typical immodesty claimed a historic diplomatic breakthrough. “Everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office,” Trump tweeted. “There is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea.”

In a letter delivered two weeks ago, Kim threatened to resume nuclear weapons and missile tests. Talks on denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula have stalled. Their future is “again at stake and may fall apart”, the letter said, because Trump zig-zagged to a harder position and had reneged on understandings reached with Kim.

In familiar knee-jerk fashion, Trump responded by scrapping a visit to North Korea by his secretary of state, Mike Pompeo. Quite how Trump expects the talks to succeed if he bans his top diplomat from talking is unclear.

He then publicly blamed China, not his own muddled messages, for undermining the US-led sanctions policy of “maximum pressure”. Exactly why Trump believes China will follow his lead on sanctions while he simultaneously wages a trade war on Beijing is a mystery.

There is the lie, promulgated on the Republican right, that his chaotic foreign policy is "working".

It is less than a year since he threatened to “totally destroy” North Korea by raining “fire and fury” on its civilian population. If Trump goes rogue again, there may be no coming back this time. He won’t get the Nobel Peace Prize he thinks he deserves.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/03/donald-trump-dangerous-k
im-jong-un-president

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

1KIKI

Wednesday, September 5, 2018 3:08 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
That's an awful lot of trouble and "sneaking" to go to when no one believes what Trump says about NK anyway. Or what NK says about NK. Or what Trump says about anything for that matter.
Nothing burger with cheese.

Printing bogus 'news' stories in the WaPo by already-exposed CIA assets masquerading as 'reporters' is not too much trouble to keep a continuous anti-Trump narrative going in the msm. It's propaganda, which you - apparently - don't think is a problem. But we already knew that about you, purveyor and cheerleader of propaganda that you are.

THUGGER admits it's not about RUSSIA !!! and is, in fact, a witch hunt. "Trump better be innocent of any wrong doing, anywhere, anytime."

SECOND

Thursday, September 6, 2018 12:17 AM (P)

North Korea probably won’t be happy with Bob Woodward’s explosive new book about the Trump presidency — and it could hurt the administration’s effort to convince North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons.

Woodward reports that Trump asked Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to come up with a plan to preemptively attack North Korea. That’s consistent with previous reporting indicating the administration considered a so-called “bloody nose” strike, meant to compel Pyongyang to give up its nuclear weapons.

Also, Woodward recounts an exchange between President Donald Trump and Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis. Trump calls for killing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. “Let’s fucking kill him! Let’s go in. Let’s kill the fucking lot of them,” Trump told Mattis, referring to Assad and his forces.

Experts worry that these two revelations could hurt America’s nuclear negotiations with North Korea by convincing leader Kim Jong Un that Trump would be willing to order an assassination strike against him — which is a really strong reason for Kim to hold onto his nuclear bombs and missiles.

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