REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Russia's Fake Americans

POSTED BY: G
UPDATED: Thursday, September 14, 2017 05:09
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Saturday, September 9, 2017 8:55 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


http://nyti.ms/2vMwz9b

"It is commonly believed that Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential campaign consisted mainly of the hacking and leaking of Democratic emails and unfavorable stories circulated abroad about Hillary Clinton. But as a startling investigation by Scott Shane of The New York Times, (****link below) and new research by the cybersecurity firm FireEye, now reveal, the Kremlin’s stealth intrusion into the election was far broader and more complex, involving a cyberarmy of bloggers posing as Americans and spreading propaganda and disinformation to an American electorate on Facebook, Twitter and other platforms.

Whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians is, of course, the question at the heart of the investigation by the special counsel, Robert Mueller. Donald Trump Jr. told Senate investigators this week that he met with Russians claiming to have dirt on Mrs. Clinton because it could concern her “fitness, character or qualifications.” But Russia’s guile in using hackers and counterfeit Facebook and Twitter accounts to undermine her campaign represents a new dimension in disinformation that must not go unchallenged by Mr. Trump, however much he may have benefited from it and however close his relationship to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The attack, according to the Times report, involved hundreds or even thousands of fake accounts on Facebook and Twitter that regularly posted anti-Clinton messages.

To viewers, the messages resembled the normal partisan give-and-take one expects in a political campaign; in fact they came from foreign sources. Many of the rapid-fire salvos came from automated accounts."

**** http://nyti.ms/2xT2SnL

The Fake Americans Russia Created to Influence the Election

"Sometimes an international offensive begins with a few shots that draw little notice. So it was last year when Melvin Redick of Harrisburg, Pa., a friendly-looking American with a backward baseball cap and a young daughter, posted on Facebook a link to a brand-new website.

“These guys show hidden truth about Hillary Clinton, George Soros and other leaders of the US,” he wrote on June 8, 2016. “Visit #DCLeaks website. It’s really interesting!”

Mr. Redick turned out to be a remarkably elusive character. No Melvin Redick appears in Pennsylvania records, and his photos seem to be borrowed from an unsuspecting Brazilian. But this fictional concoction has earned a small spot in history: The Redick posts that morning were among the first public signs of an unprecedented foreign intervention in American democracy."

=========================

I have not read either of these yet, just wanted to post them to FFF for now, to archive and for further review. I think for many of us there's nothing very much new here, just more detail.

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Saturday, September 9, 2017 11:01 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


All of two "fake Americans"? Or were there three? Because I find it funny that each article that you flog about this subject somehow fails to put any actual numbers on this phenomenon, but instead comes up with a single anecdote. Between two posts on the topic, there have been all of two examples.

All this says is that somebody created a fake FB account to post something that they thought might be unpopular. Like, gee, no Americans have ever done that?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, September 10, 2017 9:40 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
All of two "fake Americans"? Or were there three? Because I find it funny that each article that you flog about this subject somehow fails to put any actual numbers on this phenomenon, but instead comes up with a single anecdote. Between two posts on the topic, there have been all of two examples.

All this says is that somebody created a fake FB account to post something that they thought might be unpopular. Like, gee, no Americans have ever done that?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake



A. read the first article again. Ha! Kidding! I know you won't and even if you do you will just deflect and deny what it says, S.O P.

B. Your last observation has been your achilles heel for this many years and the question you and Kiki keep running from: "Do you think Putin ISN'T trying to hack the us via social media or any other digital/Internet means?"

You: "Like, gee, no Americans have ever done that?"
Sooooo, it only follows that, "Like, gee, no Russians have ever done that?

Um, right?

Your record of running:
1. First you said it was a stupid question.
2. Then you said I asked it wrong.
3. Then you said you didn't know what Hacking meant.
4. Then, without any further prodding from me you kinda answered it, but only weakly and deceptively.

I get it - we get it - you're in a tight spot having to defend Russia while not lying. It's gotta be tough! You're a dedicated soldier though - anyone can see that.



==============================

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Sunday, September 10, 2017 3:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

All of two "fake Americans"? Or were there three? Because I find it funny that each article that you flog about this subject somehow fails to put any actual numbers on this phenomenon, but instead comes up with a single anecdote. Between two posts on the topic, there have been all of two examples.

All this says is that somebody created a fake FB account to post something that they thought might be unpopular. Like, gee, no Americans have ever done that? - SIGNY

A. read the first article again. Ha! Kidding! I know you won't and even if you do you will just deflect and deny what it says, S.O P.

B. Your last observation has been your achilles heel for this many years and the question you and Kiki keep running from: "Do you think Putin ISN'T trying to hack the us via social media or any other digital/Internet means?"

You: "Like, gee, no Americans have ever done that?"
Sooooo, it only follows that, "Like, gee, no Russians have ever done that?

Um, right?

Your record of running:
1. First you said it was a stupid question.
2. Then you said I asked it wrong.
3. Then you said you didn't know what Hacking meant.
4. Then, without any further prodding from me you kinda answered it, but only weakly and deceptively.

I get it - we get it - you're in a tight spot having to defend Russia while not lying. It's gotta be tough! You're a dedicated soldier though - anyone can see that.- G



A) I answered your first question directly, with a "no"
B) I answered it again with the SAME answer, "no".
C) I explained what the "no" meant
D) I agreed that, since I can point to RT and Sputnik and other official Russian-based media's Twitter and FB accounts, technically-speaking, Russia IS attempting to modify public opinion using social media; that part is quite open
E) I answered each possible interpretation of "hacking" with its specific answer, which were
1) Infrastructural warfare - "Probably not" (i.e mostly no)
2) Information-gathering- "I wouldn't be surprised" (i.e. most likely yes)
3) "Be more specific"

No matter how many ways and times I answer your various related questions (they're not all the same) it's just never enough for you, is it?

So, let me ask your question for you, since you seem incapable of framing even your own thoughts:

Do I think that Russia is influencing American opinion (and by extension American elections) with a covert campaign of disinformation?

My answer is no.

First of all, if I want to know what "Russia" thinks about certain issues, all I have to do is look at RT, or Sputnik, or Russia Insider or any of the other Russia-based media to get a gander at the diversity of Russian opinion. As far as social media, whatever you and KPO point to of "suspected Russian" origin is tiny in the all-over media and social media space. Wow, two whole examples of face FB accounts which may or may not be "Russian"? There are vastly more videos, ads, views, "likes", and re-tweets of shoe sales or cute kittens in one day than in an entire year of Russian-oriented opinion. (yes, that's an exaggeration, but you get my point.)

Secondly - WHO CARES?

Even if there were hordes of Russian bots injecting their propaganda into every medium (which I doubt), do you think Americans so weak-minded that they need to be protected from different opinions? That American philosophy, intellect, and patriotism is too rotten to withstand a little (verbal) challenge?

The answer isn't to frantically scour the internet like some sort of crazed terrier, trying to root out "possible" nefarious influence, but to build YOUR OWN philosophy until it can encompass the other.


You have to start somewhere. If you want to come up with rational unshakable policies for America, you have to start out by answering this question: WHAT ARE AMERICA'S INTERESTS? (A question I've asked probably a couple-dozen times by now, which you have never answered.) Until YOU can figure out what our goals should be, then you will be subject to the constantly-changing winds of propaganda, from our own government as well as from others.

But, speaking of rapidly-changing winds, I'm going back to coverage of Irma.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, September 11, 2017 8:09 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Even if there were hordes of Russian bots injecting their propaganda into every medium (which I doubt), do you think Americans so weak-minded that they need to be protected from different opinions?



Of course! Just look at who's in the WH. Duh. Look at who our choices were. Double duh. And I know you think the same - that's why you lecture the 10 of us constantly.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That American philosophy, intellect, and patriotism is too rotten to withstand a little (verbal) challenge?



Now THAT^ is a stupid question. I don't even know what *American Philosophy* is - do you?

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The answer isn't to frantically scour the internet like some sort of crazed terrier, trying to root out "possible" nefarious influence, but to build YOUR OWN philosophy until it can encompass the other.



Nonsense - my philosophy has no impact outside of my small world.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:WHAT ARE AMERICA'S INTERESTS? (A question I've asked probably a couple-dozen times by now, which you have never answered.)


No, I did answer you. I said it was a trap question.

I will give you another answer: our interests are not to be hacked and secretly manipulated by any foreign power, capisce?

==============================

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Monday, September 11, 2017 8:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

Even if there were hordes of Russian bots injecting their propaganda into every medium (which I doubt), do you think Americans so weak-minded that they need to be protected from different opinions? - SIGNY

Of course!

So, let me get this straight: You think that freedom of speech and freedom of the press should be curtailed.

Quote:

Just look at who's in the WH. Duh. Look at who our choices were. Double duh. And I know you think the same - that's why you lecture the 10 of us constantly.- G
I lecture you constantly to kick your butt and get you off your fat, lazy intellectual ass. I'm CERTAINLY not trying to limit your access to information or opinion in the guise of "protecting" you.

Quote:

That American philosophy, intellect, and patriotism is too rotten to withstand a little (verbal) challenge? - SIGNY

Now THAT^ is a stupid question. I don't even know what *American Philosophy* is - do you?= G

Well, you seem to know what "unAmerican" philosophy is ... after all, you've accused me of it often enough ... so surely you must know its converse. Don't you? Or are you in the habit of accusing people of shit you know nothing about?

Quote:

The answer isn't to frantically scour the internet like some sort of crazed terrier, trying to root out "possible" nefarious influence, but to build YOUR OWN philosophy until it can encompass the other. - SIGNY

Nonsense - my philosophy has no impact outside of my small world.- G

Wow, talk about not "getting" it. Intellectually encompass the other. And yes, it will affect your small world... the one inside your head.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM: WHAT ARE AMERICA'S INTERESTS? (A question I've asked probably a couple-dozen times by now, which you have never answered.) - SIGNY

No, I did answer you. I said it was a trap question. - G

And another dodge!

No, it's not a "trap" question, ya maroon, it's fundamental to figuring out for yourself which direction you think America should go in, instead of responding to all of the dog whistles in the media, liberal or otherwise.

Should we focus on Americans? Should we try to remake the world?

Should we be prosperous? Should we be fair? What if being prosperous means being UNfair?

Should we be as self-sufficient as possible? Should we compete internationally?

Should we be individualistic? Should we be capitalistic? Should we be religious?

Quote:

I will give you another answer: our interests are not to be hacked and secretly manipulated by any foreign power, capisce?= G
DOOD. First of all, your statement implies that it's OK to be "hacked and secretly manipulated" by a domestic power. If that's not what you meant, maybe you should clarify. And if you DID mean that ... how can you claim to be non-authoritarian?

You can only be "secretly" manipulated IF YOU CAN BE MANIPULATED. (Oh, and BTW, being "manipulated" implies a certain amount of secrecy, so being "secretly" manipulated is redundant.)

The most common form of manipulation that we're subject to is advertising*. It induces people to buy shit they don't need and can't afford, to want things that aren't really good for them, and to have unrealistic expectations of the world. The same goes for most TV shows and movies. Social media and video games cause people to be depressed and passive, and in some cases are addicting. Ever hear of bread and circuses? All told, corporate media is incredibly damaging to us as a people and as a nation, but I don't see you objecting to THAT.

It's in our interests NOT TO BE MANIPULABLE BY ANYONE. Isn't that our REAL interest?

So, how do we get "there" from "here"?

As far as being "hacked" ... a term you use so loosely and inaccurately it's hard to imagine that you even learned speech ... cyberwarfare is a real problem. Not only are we risking criminal hacking (see Equifax hack) but cyber criminal (or perhaps state actors) have managed to get "hands on" control of some of our power grids, so instead of whining about Russia "hacking" our opinions, how about we beef up our cybersecurity instead?

*TPTB have put a lot of research and deep thought into how to manipulate you to meet THEIR goals.

or read "Manufacturing Consent" by Noam Chomsky.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, September 11, 2017 8:56 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I think being manipulable is part of the human condition. I think the only people who possibly aren't capable of being manipulated are sociopaths who calculate every step they make. Nobody is infallible though, so they will get duped from time to time, even if they weren't outright manipulated.


It's probably anybody who thinks that they aren't manipulable who are most likely being manipulated already. Ask anybody in the "Church" of Scientology if they're manipulable and I'd bet most of them would tell you that they aren't, for example.

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Monday, September 11, 2017 9:07 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


But there are way to reduce how much you're being manipulated. One of the ways is to expose yourself to different ideas. That's what freedom of speech and freedom of the press is all about. Yanno, don't try cocooning yourself into a comfortable little bubble. Not only does G want to cocoon himself, he wants everyone else to be cocooned too.

Another way is to apply knowledge of HOW the human brain fails. One of our logic-fails is that we're very context-sensitive, and we process the same kind of event differently if it appears in different contexts. That's why it's good to cast the same event with different actors and check whether our responses are the same. Groupthink is another very human failing.

There are other logic-fails to be aware of. Not going to go into all of them, maybe later.

And as a scientist, I think another good way is to test your ideas in the real world. Yanno, if you think your know how something "should" be done, then either do it yourself (and try to evaluate the results fairly) or see how much of an event - or how many events - your idea can predict or explain. (That was the idea behind KPO's prediction thread, unfortunately, he used it as a weapon and put things in there that weren't even predictions, and missed things that were. But it was a good idea while it lasted.)

We will never know "everything" and there's no way we can be entirely "objective", but there is a difference between being a bug-nuts religious/political believer or being open to questioning and learning. G is extremely closed-minded, and he's authoritarian. He doesn't want to hear or see anything that conflicts with his POV and he doesn't want anyone else to see or hear anything different either.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, September 11, 2017 10:51 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Even if there were hordes of Russian bots injecting their propaganda into every medium (which I doubt), do you think Americans so weak-minded that they need to be protected from different opinions? - SIGNY

Of course!

So, let me get this straight: You think that freedom of speech and freedom of the press should be curtailed.



You're an idiot.

==============================

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Monday, September 11, 2017 11:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

Even if there were hordes of Russian bots injecting their propaganda into every medium (which I doubt), do you think Americans so weak-minded that they need to be protected from different opinions? - SIGNY

Of course! - G

So, let me get this straight: You think that freedom of speech and freedom of the press should be curtailed.- SIGNY

You're an idiot. - G

Wow, name-calling already???

You sure ran out of arguments really fast! Didn't even make it past the first exchange of opinions!

Folks, be sure to read G's entire post.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, September 11, 2017 11:53 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Yeah. I'm pretty closed minded, but I'm not authoritarian. The older I get the more I realize I don't know shit, nobody I know knows shit, and nobody telling us stuff on TV or church or youtube or anywhere else knows shit.

That's alright though. Stuff like that used to worry me back when I thought I had any power or control over things. My circle of influence is in fact extremely small, and I don't care to make that much of a mark on the world anymore.

I'm just going to roll with the punches and see how things go. I don't think I could have possibly set myself up with a more stress free life. If shit ever comes knocking at my door I'll at least be able to put up a good fight whether I win or lose. Until then, consider me "The Dude". I'm just going to try to enjoy whatever time I have left with my family and set up a nice little trust fund for my niece when I'm gone.

All this other shit is just noise. Something to pass the time.

Dust in the wind baby.




Maybe I should open a massage parlor. What do you think, Wishy?

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Monday, September 11, 2017 12:16 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
All of two "fake Americans"? Or were there three? Because I find it funny that each article that you flog about this subject somehow fails to put any actual numbers on this phenomenon, but instead comes up with a single anecdote. Between two posts on the topic, there have been all of two examples.

All this says is that somebody created a fake FB account to post something that they thought might be unpopular. Like, gee, no Americans have ever done that?




You, lets start with you. You are a Russian fake American.






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Monday, September 11, 2017 12:24 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
You, lets start with you. You are a Russian fake American.




[Citation Needed]

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Monday, September 11, 2017 2:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


What ???!!! You're not going to take the word of a troll?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Monday, September 11, 2017 4:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

All of two "fake Americans"? Or were there three? Because I find it funny that each article that you flog about this subject somehow fails to put any actual numbers on this phenomenon, but instead comes up with a single anecdote. Between two posts on the topic, there have been all of two examples.

All this says is that somebody created a fake FB account to post something that they thought might be unpopular. Like, gee, no Americans have ever done that? - SIGNY

You, lets start with you. You are a Russian fake American. - THUGR



THUGR, please, click on my name. You will see that I've been here since 2002 .... long before "Putin" ever entered your pea-brain and a mere three years after the fall of the Soviet Union. Now, apply some common sense, if at all possible, to the situation. Do you really think that while in the throes of dire economic and political free-fall, "Russia" would have implanted a bot on some obscure sci-fi board, 15 years ago, with the plan that this bot would talk to three or four idiots in case Trump might run for office some day?

heh heh heh

The thought makes me chuckle.

*****

Aside from that, you clearly have no knowledge of, or respect for, our Constitution. I may as well call you Chairman Mao.

I believe in the free marketplace of ideas. If you can't counterpoint my ideas with better ones of your own, please STFU and on't impose your own unconstitutional stupid-mindedness on all Americans.








-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, September 11, 2017 9:09 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Russian Skynet sent you back to the year 2002 so you could troll the 12 people who still come to fireflyfans 15 years later.


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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 5:16 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


You coud be a long term mole frum way back in the 70z for all we no, sig!

I watched seazon 1 uv The Americanz. Not a great show, but based on actual events. It makes sens that spyz woudnt just giv it all up just kuz their country crashed.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 6:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


JO, you're confusing spies with bots. Spies - especially successful ones - wouldn't be found wrangling about politics on a small no-account sci-fi board!

You're being just like some people here were deathly afraid of Iraq's nonexistent WMD.

When I argued against that particular paranoia, I was accused of being a jihadist sympathizer too! I see this all as a series of boogeyman de jour ... I've lived through a lot of hysterias in my time, from the Gulf of Tonkin incident thru Noriega, Saddam, Qaddafi, Assad, and now "Russians/ Putin". None of were a threat. But somehow the press always seems to find another "enemy" to thump about, and "the people" (that's you) always seem to get fooled.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 8:08 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

THUGR, please, click on my name. You will see that I've been here since 2002 .... long before "Putin" ever entered your pea-brain and a mere three years after the fall of the Soviet Union. Now, apply some common sense, if at all possible, to the situation. Do you really think that while in the throes of dire economic and political free-fall, "Russia" would have implanted a bot on some obscure sci-fi board, 15 years ago, with the plan that this bot would talk to three or four idiots in case Trump might run for office some day?



Yeah, that's a lame excuse every time you use it. ALL Russian trolls were *somewhere* in 2002. You can be anywhere and promote Russian propaganda and agendas. You can even be just a willing, approving, part time volunteer who is (wrongly) certain they are doing good things.

==============================

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 8:21 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You're being just like some people here were deathly afraid of Iraq's nonexistent WMD.



We were just talking about manipulation.

I think it's kind of funny that, in general, the people who were manipulated to believe that there were WMDs in Iraq are not the people being manipulated to believe that Russia __________ (fill in the blank), and vice-versa.


I know that Rappy and I didn't agree much during the GWB admin, and there were a lot more people around here back then to argue with about it. What I don't recall back then was being called a Commie or a Nazi every other day though.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

THUGR, please, click on my name. You will see that I've been here since 2002 .... long before "Putin" ever entered your pea-brain and a mere three years after the fall of the Soviet Union. Now, apply some common sense, if at all possible, to the situation. Do you really think that while in the throes of dire economic and political free-fall, "Russia" would have implanted a bot on some obscure sci-fi board, 15 years ago, with the plan that this bot would talk to three or four idiots in case Trump might run for office some day? - SIGNY

Yeah, that's a lame excuse every time you use it. ALL Russian trolls were *somewhere* in 2002. You can be anywhere and promote Russian propaganda and agendas. You can even be just a willing, approving, part time volunteer who is (wrongly) certain they are doing good things.- GSTRING

So in other words according to you, all it takes to "qualify" as a "Russian troll" is to simply not hate Russia.

Just like anyone who doesn't jump on the pro-violence Antifa bandwagon is a "Nazi".

Not only are you an authoritarian who believes that Americans should be "protected" from some POV, you have a hate-filled agenda, don't you?



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

You're being just like some people here were deathly afraid of Iraq's nonexistent WMD. - SIGNY

We were just talking about manipulation.
I think it's kind of funny that, in general, the people who were manipulated to believe that there were WMDs in Iraq are not the people being manipulated to believe that Russia __________ (fill in the blank), and vice-versa.

I know that Rappy and I didn't agree much during the GWB admin, and there were a lot more people around here back then to argue with about it. What I don't recall back then was being called a Commie or a Nazi every other day though.



I think the people on the board back then were just a lot smarter and a lot more sophisticated than now. This current crop of liberals is, for the most part, stone-cold stupid. Not only that, they refuse to learn. BUT, they're extremely open to being manipulated by TPTB who tell them the stories they most want to hear.

Things are NOT worse "now" than "before". "Back then", on a forum dedicated to pediatric neurological issues, my private information was handed over to the FBI because a bunch of Midwestern housewives thought I was the sender of the anthrax letters --- seriously!

The person who clued me in to what was going on was a Canadian mother, who send me a PM with a link to the request to webmaster. All that earned me was being followed for a few days by the FBI when they visited So Cal to investigate the Muslim community in nearby Orange County. (I live in LA County.) As it turned out, they found out that my life was boring as shit, since all I did was work at work and then work at home taking care of our then-deteriorating daughter.

My point being that, "back then" with another group, they went quite a bit farther than name-calling. People will do strange and potentially extremely consequential things including turning people in to "the authorities" when they're truly frightened.

At this point, tho, I think KPO and G and THUGR and JO are no longer TRULY frightened, they're just telling scare stories about the campfire to see who can be the most paranoid, and they don't like anyone not believing their fantasies about how good we are and how bad Russia is; or how Antifa's political violence is good while other political violence is bad. Everyone is just supposed to fall in line with their thinking, and they'll beat you over the head with their name-calling stick unless you agree because they're so righteous and huffy about their opinions.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:21 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I remember the GWB admin as being much more paranoid times. We never got to London-style "Eye in the Sky" propaganda proportions, but I do recall seeing some bus stop signs back then urging you to report any suspicious activity.

I think some of that has to do with the fact that with an HD camera in the hands of every idiot with a phone we're pretty much living in a voluntary surveillance society and there's no need for any scary propaganda posters everywhere making people think twice about our new normal.



At this point I think the only thing to be afraid of is the ever growing population problem on the planet and how nobody ever talks about it. There is a solution being created behind the scenes, although I could only imagine what that would be. That's not paranoid thinking. It's just stating the obvious facts that left unchecked the human population will become entirely unsustainable. I know if I was one of the guys whispering into the ears of powerful people it would be top on my list of priorities.

But I'm not going to worry about it. It could happen after I die or it could happen tomorrow. Nothing I could do about it anyhow. It is what it is.


SGG said it in the other thread. None of us are going to really change each other's minds on anything. We can't even do that, so pretending we're actually doing any good in the world by attacking each other is pretty foolish too. This really is just another form of interactive entertainment, and I thank Haken for keeping the signal going. This is my World of Warcraft.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Agreed that the population problem is THE biggest issue. And nobody is talking about it because it's gotten tangled up with the "pro-life" POV, where even birth control is a problem. (But wars are not? I digress.)

Supposedly one of the things that the Bill Gates Foundation was investigating was the development of an anti-pregnancy vaccine.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:52 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Supposedly one of the things that the Bill Gates Foundation was investigating was the development of an anti-pregnancy vaccine.



Love the phrasing of that. Getting pregnant and having a baby is a virus and needs a vaccine.

Sounds to me more like introducing a virus to prevent birth. No way something like that could get out of control.







Thanks Science!

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 2:12 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So in other words according to you, all it takes to "qualify" as a "Russian troll" is to simply not hate Russia.

Just like anyone who doesn't jump on the pro-violence Antifa bandwagon is a "Nazi".

Not only are you an authoritarian who believes that Americans should be "protected" from some POV, you have a hate-filled agenda, don't you?



You are obviously very pro-ignorance.

==============================

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 2:19 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

At this point, tho, I think KPO and G and THUGR and JO are no longer TRULY frightened, they're just telling scare stories about the campfire to see who can be the most paranoid, and they don't like anyone not believing their fantasies about how good we are and how bad Russia is; or how Antifa's political violence is good while other political violence is bad. Everyone is just supposed to fall in line with their thinking, and they'll beat you over the head with their name-calling stick unless you agree because they're so righteous and huffy about their opinions.



Talk about a campfire story... one thing you are definitely good at is making sh*t up

==============================

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 2:42 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

So in other words according to you, all it takes to "qualify" as a "Russian troll" is to simply not hate Russia. Just like anyone who doesn't jump on the pro-violence Antifa bandwagon is a "Nazi".
Not only are you an authoritarian who believes that Americans should be "protected" from some POV, you have a hate-filled agenda, don't you? -SIGNY

You are obviously very pro-ignorance.- GSTRING

Uh huh. I don't think anybody believes that, not even you.

Who is the one who keeps calling for evidence instead of allegation, for logic and science to root out bias and prejudice? You?

Hardly! You specialize in lies, insinuation, name-calling, prejudice, trolling, sheer out-and-out hate, and hypocrisy, along with your buddy THUGR. There is hardly a factual reference between the two of you in all of your zillion meaningless mean-spirited posts. And it's not like we don't have enough examples to look at.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:44 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
1. So in other words according to you, all it takes to "qualify" as a "Russian troll" is to simply not hate Russia.

2. Just like anyone who doesn't jump on the pro-violence Antifa bandwagon is a "Nazi".

3. Not only are you an authoritarian who believes that Americans should be "protected" from some POV, you have a hate-filled agenda, don't you? -SIGNY

And it's not like we don't have enough examples to look at.



And all we have to do is look at your last post - 3 lies right there (or, you could just be stupid).

And what's really cool about you is if I say, "show me my lies," you'll just make sh*t up again. You really have major issues.

==============================

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 5:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


I encourage others to read your posts. I also encourage YOU, GSTRING, to read your own posts. Because either someone is posting under your name or you don't know what you said.

The best satisfaction that I get out of this whole exchange is that lately nobody is interested in it, or any of your other paranoid ramblings about "RUSSIA". So yeah, keep on flogging that dead horse.

Time to stop wasting time on you.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:22 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I encourage others to read your posts. I also encourage YOU, GSTRING, to read your own posts. Because either someone is posting under your name or you don't know what you said.



I encourage you to read my posts as well. If you had you would know you are a lying sack of go se. Wait, you already know that. OR you could always back up your statements with quotes from me saying anything like you suggest I said.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Time to stop wasting time on you.



Time to run again. Can we shoot for 2 weeks again so it will be at least 2 days before you loose your self control?

==============================

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Quote:

I encourage you to read my posts as well. If you had you would know you are a lying sack of go se. Wait, you already know that. OR you could always back up your statements with quotes from me saying anything like you suggest I said.= GSTRING


Here you go, asshole: QUOTES FROM YOU

Yanno. GSTRING, at one point your were convinced, I think, that I was a Russian living in Russia, getting paid to sit at a keyboard and transmit whatever it was that the Kremlin told me to transmit. You even thought that you had detected a "pattern" of me posting during Moscow daytime hours. You thought you had "nailed" my "real" ID, when in fact all you did was demonstrate that - as an achy old person - I sleep like shit.

Once you finally looked at my long history here, and actually thought about the real implications of what it meant, you started walking back your "requirements" for being a "Russian troll" to include more and more people, until you got to this point:

Quote:

Yeah, that's a lame excuse every time you use it. ALL Russian trolls were *somewhere* in 2002. You can be anywhere and promote Russian propaganda and agendas. You can even be just a willing, approving, part time volunteer who is (wrongly) certain they are doing good things. - GSTRING


So, in your mind. in order to qualify as a "Russian troll", it doesn't matter who was posting what 15 years ago.
It doesn't matter if you're in living in Russia.
It doesn't matter if you're of Russian birth, or even of Russian descent.
It doesn't matter if you're an American citizen, born and raised.
It doesn't matter if you get paid or not.
It doesn't even matter if you don't praise Russia.
All it takes, the ONLY THING that is "proof" (in your mind) of being a "Russian troll" is to push back against your irrational accusations.

QED (quod erat demonstrandum): So in other words according to you, all it takes to "qualify" as a "Russian troll" is to simply not hate Russia.

******
Your posts in the Charlottesville thread http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61855&p=7 demonstrate that you can't distinguish between someone who is defending free speech and the rule of law from someone who supports Nazism, but here are a few gems from that thread

Quote:

Hating whole categories of people is just like hating Jews. blacks, gays, and Muslims. But somehow, that lesson is lost on you . - SIGNY
You just equated Jews. blacks, gays, and Muslims with Nazis. How long have you felt that way? - GSTRING


Quote:

We do have free speech, so you are free to go ahead and defend and protect Nazis and White Supremacists all you want. It's not surprising in the least as you have shown that you have a dark fascination for the violent bullying, murdering type: Putin, Assad, Trump, Nazis, White Supremacists. Quite a list you're building, isn't it? = GSTRING
Dood! I'm not the one who goes on and one and on and on about them! I'm not the one CONSTANTLY bullying people here! I'm not the one who's willing to cross Constitutional lines! - SIGNY

You've called me a "Nazi" or "Nazi defender" or "neo-Nazi" many times, when I was only saying that everyone has the right to free speech, and that we should follow the rule of law and arrest and try people who commit violent acts. Hence

QED
Quote:

2. Just like anyone who doesn't jump on the pro-violence Antifa bandwagon is a "Nazi".



****
Quote:

Even if there were hordes of Russian bots injecting their propaganda into every medium (which I doubt), do you think Americans so weak-minded that they need to be protected from different opinions? - SIGNY

Of course!- GSTRING



QED

QED: Not only are you an authoritarian who believes that Americans should be "protected" from some POV, you have a hate-filled agenda, don't you?

****

Now. You lied about who I support, you lied about who I am, you lied - in this very thread - about whether or not I answered your questions about so-called "Russian hacking".

You even demonstrably lied about what you yourself posted. How stupid is that, to lie about something that you posted, when all anyone has to do is SCROLL UP and read what you wrote?

And you've been demonstrated to be a liar, many times. (And don't challenge me to link that because you know I will. Unlike you, I don't make baseless and irrational accusations about others, Not even about you.)

Man, you just can't stop lying, can you? Even when your very own posts betray you. It's like a reflex that you can't control.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


I'm certain that you'll post even more YUUGE lies about me, very soon.

You've worked your way into Trump-level lying. Congrats!



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:29 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I figured that before I leave I should add the new trend I've been seeing by the usual crowd around here. All of the sudden after 8 months of trying to go after Trump and all the terrible things that one man did and didn't do, they've now backed off of him almost entirely and are now downplaying the roll of President (especially in the case of what Obama did and didn't do), and they are laying the blame squarely on the shoulders of Congress.

I don't actually disagree with laying most of the blame on Congress myself. I just find it funny that both J0 and Second are saying eerily similar things at the exact same time in different threads.

They must be watching the same programming I guess.

I'm sure all of my predictions about the MSM the last 8 months weren't added by KPO to the predictions thread, but they're here. And I've been right about every one of them so far.

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:47 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


What a mess of lies from sniggles:

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

I encourage you to read my posts as well. If you had you would know you are a lying sack of go se. Wait, you already know that. OR you could always back up your statements with quotes from me saying anything like you suggest I said.= GSTRING


Here you go, asshole: QUOTES FROM YOU

Yanno. GSTRING, at one point your were convinced, I think, that I was a Russian living in Russia, getting paid to sit at a keyboard and transmit whatever it was that the Kremlin told me to transmit. You even thought that you had detected a "pattern" of me posting during Moscow daytime hours. You thought you had "nailed" my "real" ID, when in fact all you did was demonstrate that - as an achy old person - I sleep like shit.

Once you finally looked at my long history here, and actually thought about the real implications of what it meant, you started walking back your "requirements" for being a "Russian troll" to include more and more people, until you got to this point:

Quote:

Yeah, that's a lame excuse every time you use it. ALL Russian trolls were *somewhere* in 2002. You can be anywhere and promote Russian propaganda and agendas. You can even be just a willing, approving, part time volunteer who is (wrongly) certain they are doing good things. - GSTRING


So, in your mind. in order to qualify as a "Russian troll", it doesn't matter who was posting what 15 years ago.
It doesn't matter if you're in living in Russia.
It doesn't matter if you're of Russian birth, or even of Russian descent.
It doesn't matter if you're an American citizen, born and raised.
It doesn't matter if you get paid or not.
It doesn't even matter if you don't praise Russia.
All it takes, the ONLY THING that is "proof" (in your mind) of being a "Russian troll" is to push back against your irrational accusations.

Me: wrong of course - posting like a Russian Troll is a start. See your Hillary thread.

QED (quod erat demonstrandum): So in other words according to you, all it takes to "qualify" as a "Russian troll" is to simply not hate Russia.

huh?!?! - You just exercised your pro ignorance stance. That's the dumbest conclusion you could make - congrats.

******
Your posts in the Charlottesville thread http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61855&p=7 demonstrate that you can't distinguish between someone who is defending free speech and the rule of law from someone who supports Nazism, but here are a few gems from that thread

Quote:

Hating whole categories of people is just like hating Jews. blacks, gays, and Muslims. But somehow, that lesson is lost on you . - SIGNY
You just equated Jews. blacks, gays, and Muslims with Nazis. How long have you felt that way? - GSTRING


Quote:

We do have free speech, so you are free to go ahead and defend and protect Nazis and White Supremacists all you want. It's not surprising in the least as you have shown that you have a dark fascination for the violent bullying, murdering type: Putin, Assad, Trump, Nazis, White Supremacists. Quite a list you're building, isn't it? = GSTRING
Dood! I'm not the one who goes on and one and on and on about them! I'm not the one CONSTANTLY bullying people here! yes you are - see this thread I'm not the one who's willing to cross Constitutional lines! - SIGNY

You've called me a "Nazi" or "Nazi defender" or "neo-Nazi" many times, when I was only saying that everyone has the right to free speech, and that we should follow the rule of law and arrest and try people who commit violent acts. Hence lie, I never called you a nazi or neo-nazi.

QED
Quote:

2. Just like anyone who doesn't jump on the pro-violence Antifa bandwagon is a "Nazi".


****
Quote:

Even if there were hordes of Russian bots injecting their propaganda into every medium (which I doubt), do you think Americans so weak-minded that they need to be protected from different opinions? - SIGNY

Of course!- GSTRING



QED

QED: Not only are you an authoritarian who believes that Americans should be "protected" from some POV, you have a hate-filled agenda, don't you?

more lying bullsh*t from you. Just because you wirite QED doesn't me you shoed it to be true. The right way: "QED: You have shown us that you are unbalanced mentally." - that's how it works.

****

Now. You lied about who I support, you lied about who I am, you lied - in this very thread - about whether or not I answered your questions about so-called "Russian hacking".

You even demonstrably lied about what you yourself posted. How stupid is that, to lie about something that you posted, when all anyone has to do is SCROLL UP and read what you wrote?

as I predicted, you would make sh*t up in vast quantities (lie) - all you have to do is show one of mine and you can't with all of these words. My gawd how weak.

And you've been demonstrated to be a liar, many times. (And don't challenge me to link that because you know I will. Unlike you, I don't make baseless and irrational accusations about others, Not even about you.)

Man, you just can't stop lying, can you? Even when your very own posts betray you. It's like a reflex that you can't control.



Man, you just can't stop lying.

And you failed to show 1 single lie of mine. Again. Yawn. You merely bolstered my pov. Saying something doesn't make it so.

I also note you couldn't even hold to you own statements and go 2 days this time. So very weak, so very typical.

==============================

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:53 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm certain that you'll post even more YUUGE lies about me, very soon.

You've worked your way into Trump-level lying. Congrats!






SIGNYM unable to describe other people in terms that don't describe herself, "Trump-level lying." It's the ole' "do it to them first," strategy that she thinks no one else recognizes. Keep foolin' yourself fool.

==============================

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 2:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


Dood, you asked for quotes which proved you were lying, and I gave them to you. Now you've been demonstrated to be a liar, again. I can't decide which is more pathetic ... that you lied about something that you posted, in the very thread where you posted it? Or that your only response at this point lying about me again, to deflect attention from the fact that you got your ass handed to you. Again.


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
I can't prove that I haven't lied my ass off about everybody and everything, so I'm going to troll, troll, troll my boat... Because that's what trolls do.



As to whatever you and your stooges have to say ...

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 4:39 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Dood, you asked for quotes which proved you were lying, and I gave them to you. Now you've been demonstrated to be a liar, again.



No you didn't, not one. You made obviously false presumptions/assumptions based on your purposely ignorant interpretations of what I said. I can't help it if you chose to lie and act stupid. That really is on you.

Meanwhile her are 5 of your lies JUST IN THIS THREAD:

1. I didn't call you a Nazi
2. I didn't call you a neo-nazi
3. "You think that freedom of speech and freedom of the press should be curtailed." a really weak, obvious false assumption based on nothing provided from Siggy
4. "So in other words according to you, all it takes to "qualify" as a "Russian troll" is to simply not hate Russia." a really weak, obvious false assumption based on nothing provided from Siggy
5. "Just like anyone who doesn't jump on the pro-violence Antifa bandwagon is a "Nazi". a really weak, obvious false assumption based on nothing provided from Siggy
6. "Not only are you an authoritarian who believes that Americans should be "protected" from some POV, you have a hate-filled agenda." a really weak, obvious false assumption based on nothing provided from Siggy

I can't tell if that's 6 and 7 or just 6. Either way, a bonus lie from Signuts from what I promised. There's just so many lies.

Good news Sig! The noose is tightening: More truths about Russian Trolls:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-russia-used-facebook-events-to-
organize-anti-immigrant-rallies-on-us-soil


Russian operatives hiding behind false identities used Facebook’s event-management tool to remotely organize and promote political protests in the U.S., including an August 2016 anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim rally in Idaho, The Daily Beast has learned.
A Facebook spokesperson confirmed to The Daily Beast that the social-media giant “shut down several promoted events as part of the takedown we described last week.” The company declined to elaborate, except to confirm that the events were promoted with paid ads. (This is the first time the social-media giant has publicly acknowledged the existence of such events.)
The Facebook events—one of which echoed Islamophobic conspiracy theories pushed by pro-Trump media outlets—are the first indication that the Kremlin’s attempts to shape America’s political discourse moved beyond fake news and led unwitting Americans into specific real-life action.
“This is the next step,” Clint Watts, a former FBI agent and expert on Russia’s influence campaign, told The Daily Beast. “The objective of influence is to create behavior change. The simplest behavior is to have someone disseminate propaganda that Russia created and seeded. The second part of behavior influence is when you can get people to physically do something.”
Last week Facebook acknowledged for the first time that Russia used false identities and about 3,000 ads to spread politically divisive posts to Americans before and after the election. The content, according to an expert on Facebook’s advertising system, was likely seen by between 23 and 70 million people, based on the $100,000 ad buy alone."

==============================

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 7:50 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Good news Sig! The noose is tightening: More truths about Russian Trolls:






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Thursday, September 14, 2017 5:09 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


The FB accounts go beyond mere hacking and annoying ads. They have found that an actual presence existed in the form of a group with actual people.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Good news Sig! The noose is tightening: More truths about Russian Trolls:







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