Accident or Not? Malaysian Airliner shot down.

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Sunday, August 2, 2026 16:14
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MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, July 21, 2014 6:28 PM

I'm not entirely sure anything I said was much different to this.

THGRRI

Monday, July 21, 2014 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

This is a constant with Sig and 1kiki. They deserve it and more. If it was your country that came under attack by these two with every world event, you would not be so generous. I remember how uppity you suggested I was because I was an American when we discussed different ways of governing. I don't think it would take much for you to go off on someone speaking ill of your country. Don't judge me for defending mine.

(It is nice to hear from you. It's a shame we don't meet here more often.)

I don't remember getting 'uppity' and I don't remember feeling like you attacked my country. I think the discussion was about different kinds of government.

I would have thought that the whole point of this board was to discuss and yes, criticise actions, military and economic and the rest that occur throughout the world. Criticism of America's foreign policy by Americans (or anyone else for that matter) does not seem as outrageous to me as it clearly does to you.

You're (nb you are) living in a world power, people are going to dislike your interventions in the world. As long as people are discussing your actions, not blowing you up, I'd say 'suck it up princess' ;)

With Sig and 1kiki it is more like slander than a discussion. There is a difference. With those two it is always one sided while they deny the wrong doing of there favored states. Let's also remember Sig goes off on delusional rants that are pure speculation that demean this country. That's when 1kiki jumps in and seconds the motion. Pure garbage.

I did not say you got uppity. I said you accused me of being that way. You did not use that word of course. Typical American thing if I remember correctly.

Again, I feel if you read something slandering your country you would respond harshly. Would you not?

THGRRI

Monday, July 21, 2014 8:13 PM

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/russia-portrays-fantasy-world-a
bout-ukraine-310059587795

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, July 21, 2014 8:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Again, I feel if you read something slandering your country you would respond harshly. Would you not?

Meh. I read it all the time. I agree with it a lot too. I'm critical of my government, of many aspects of my nation.

THGRRI

Monday, July 21, 2014 9:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Again, I feel if you read something slandering your country you would respond harshly. Would you not?

Meh. I read it all the time. I agree with it a lot too. I'm critical of my government, of many aspects of my nation.

I get that but on these threads it is a constant for us here. There are periods where it is relentless, false, slanderous and hateful and it needs to be addressed.

AURAPTOR
On a good day

SIGNYM

Monday, July 21, 2014 10:00 PM

MAL4 - there ARE hard facts. Whatever happened really happened, happened, and it was hard in all senses: physical, ethical, psychological. There was nothing fuzzy about it. Or, as RUE used to say- "The universe isn't confused, WE are" Those FACTS, however, are not going to be made plain to us mere peons, and so it's up to us to figure out what the real, hard facts are.

When you do that, you have to keep an open mind. What our fearless leaders tell us... you have to give it the sniff test... Do they have a reason to lie, and in what direction? Does it make sense? Is it consistent with other data, especially verifiable data?

Quote:
Seeing to the truth is also about assessing the trustworthiness of the source. And that can only be determined by lining one source up with information from a separate, purely unrelated source, and having a history of knowing which is more trustworthy. This is not science. It is purely subjective, and here is where our biases cause problems. Here is where the blinders go over our eyes: who do you believe: Bush, Obama, or Putin?

Generically? Nobody. I don't believe in "belief", and I don't trust ANYONE.

I DO have evidence that Obama has lied - repeatedly- about matters of national significance, on everything from Syria and Benghazi to NSA's practice of hoovering up everyone's data and the drone program. So I think that my caution on Obama is not just generic, it's very specifically well-founded. Obama lied - that's a fact- and he continues to lie.

This isn't a conclusion I came to lightly. I VOTED FOR Obama the first time around, altho Rue (who I know IRL) cautioned me against it. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for most of his first term. I defended him here, on this very board. He had to EARN my disgust ... and boy oh boy, did he ever! Now, whenever I hear that professorial smug tone I kind of cringe, just like I did whenever Bush came on with his faux Texas accent, and Reagan came on with his wheezy "folksy charm". I cringe, I really do. I can't help it.

Quote:
Sig, being a pure scientist, may understand little of this. She shows no ability to use fuzzy logic, the process by which our brains actually function.

I use fuzzy logic all of the time, it's just that my fuzzy logic and yours aren't the same. I first look at the motivations of the various sources, the timing and tempo of the news that's released, the GAPS in the information (what isn't being said is just as important as what IS being said), and significant probative details - if I can find them. That's why the pictures from the Odessa Trades Union building were so important - they contained a wealth of detail that would be nearly impossible to fake under such a short timeframe, and were corroborated by videos taken multiple sources from outside.

Quote:
Example: from the start I have no trust no Putin and his involvement in all the Ukraine matter. Sig has no trust of Obama, but had some idea that Putin had rational, perhaps even honorable reasons to do what he's done.

From the start, I said this was all about Sevastopol, which is Russia's major naval base which leads to the Mediterranean. Also, Russia will not tolerate advancement of NATO (and it's missiles) into east Ukraine, if it can help it.

Quote:
Our differing mentalities explain a lot about the very different fuzzy logic we've brought in to the present matter. I am quickest to see Putin as the liar. Sig jumps on Obama. Neither man is 100% truthful, but one is far worse, and I think that in the long run the truth will out. Sig, will you accept that result, if it happens? Seems you're already packing away in this thread as you see the evidence mount, the fuzzy logic that was obvious to me and countless other days ago might be coming home to you....

So far, Putin has said NOTHING about this, except very general statements. It's hard to "lie&qu

THGRRI

Monday, July 21, 2014 10:06 PM

Quote:
...Sig
Those FACTS, however, are not going to be made plain to us mere peons, and so it's up to us to figure out what the real, hard facts are.

That is right Sig and your facts are delusional. This incident and your refusal to acknowledge what the rest of the world is saying is pretty good evidence to what we have been saying to you hear in these threads. You are biased and see things through the eyes of the Russian propaganda machine.

Russian reporter quits, is sick of lying to public.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Ukraine-reporter-quits/2014/07
/18/id/583551

Quote:
...Sig

Here's a suggestion: I'll take you side or the argument if you take mine. I think I could do a bang-up job, I really do. Sound fair?

..................................I'll take you up on that.

AURAPTOR
on a good day

SIGNYM

Monday, July 21, 2014 10:10 PM

THUGR- Several threads back, you basically put your hand to forehead and swooned over the terrible, terrible things that must be done to keep us safe from all of the evil out there.

I call bullshit.

Since when does it benefit us to destabilize and impoverish nations; fund, arm, and train jihadists (as we've been doing since the mujahideen in Afghanistan), neo-Nazis and tyrants everywhere ?

Our armed forces aren't being used to preserve our freedoms, they're being used to secure oil and enforce the petrodollar. Sorry to say.

Quote:
I'll take you up on that.

Okay, you first. mainly, because I have other things to do. Gotta get off the inet and back to real life.

THGRRI

Monday, July 21, 2014 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THUGR- Several threads back, you basically put your hand to forehead and swooned over the terrible, terrible things that must be done to keep us safe from all of the evil out there.

I call bullshit.

Since when does it benefit us to destabilize and impoverish nations; fund, arm, and train jihadists (as we've been doing since the mujahideen in Afghanistan), neo-Nazis and tyrants everywhere ?

Our armed forces aren't being used to preserve our freedoms, they're being used to secure oil and enforce the petrodollar. Sorry to say.

......................................Let's switch sides. Great IDEA!

AURAPTOR
on a good day

SIGNYM

Monday, July 21, 2014 10:14 PM

Here's an argument for your NEW side of the coin:

Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of
Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukrain
e-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1

Go for it!

----------------
How many of you thought that Saddam had WMD?
Who among you thought that Assad used chemical weapons in Syria?
How many of you were surprised by 9-11?
Did any of you predict the meltdown of 2008?
Who thought that Russia invaded Georgia unprovoked?

THGRRI

Monday, July 21, 2014 10:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Here's an argument for your NEW side of the coin:

Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of
Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukrain
e-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1

Go for it!

----------------
b]

It does not work if your first post is going to support your beliefs and is a suggestion to me how I should respond against mine. Try again....

AURAPTOR
on a good day

THGRRI

Monday, July 21, 2014 11:06 PM

Hello Sig, are you there? I can't wait to get started. Let's start small and go from there Ok?

AURAPTOR
on a good day

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:13 AM

It's OK Sig, I may be the only one here who understands you can't argue the other side. It would kill you.

Subjective writing can become excessive, with lies becoming so intricate, so extreme and interwoven that they almost blur the line between one’s concept of reality and fantasy. Individuals who engage in extensive subjective writing are pathological.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Maybe some other time.

AURAPTOR
on a good day

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:18 AM

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/malaysian-airlines-flight-17-shot-sa-1
1-missile-24644246?tab=9482931§ion=4765066

When the Russians shot down the Korean airliner they confiscated the bodies. let's see if these bodies head for Russia when all are collected. I don't think they'll do it but who knows at this point.

It's obvious they looted the passengers stealing all they could. Just a bunch of animals.

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:45 AM

http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/21/ukrainian-su-25-jet-near-malaisian-flight-m
h17-rostov-air-traffic-control/

Ukrainian SU-25 Jet Near Malaisian Flight MH17 – Rostov Air Traffic Control

nsnbc : A Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet ascended towards a distance of 3 – 5 km from Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17, said the Head of the Main Operations Department of the Russian Army’s General Staff, referring to Rostov Air Traffic Control. The presence of a Su-25 fighter jet adds to the possible scenarios which could have caused the fatal crash that cost 298 lives. Russian satellite images show Ukrainian Buk missile systems, which increased radar strength, in the region, say Russian military sources.

Previous reports revealed that Ukrainian military deployed BUK missile systems to the region near the crash site only days before July 17. Questions have been raised whether the Ukrainian Interior Ministry or the Ministry of Defense had command over these surface-to air-missiles. nsnbc is in the process of independently investigating these reports, as well as questions about Ukrainian air traffic control, which assigned the lower than usual altitude of 33,000 ft instead of the 35,000 ft requested when the pilots of MH17 filed their flight plan.

nsnbc is also independently investigating who was responsible for changing the flight route to the North on July 16, and even further North on July 17, the day of the fatal incident, when the pilots of MH17 appear to have been directed to fly right above closed airspace and a combat zone.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:18 AM

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/u-n-security-coun
cil-demands-malaysia-airlines-flight-17-probe-n161501
U.N. Security Council Demands Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Probe
Russia had withheld support as it argued against Ukrainian authorities from taking a lead role in the probe. It wanted a U.N. agency to assume that role. But the Russians capitulated as it faced growing international scorn.

Which tracks with what I've been reading. The day after the crash July 18 Putin called for an impartial international investigation.

http://mashable.com/2014/07/19/live-updates-mh17-saturday/
Russian President Vladimir Putin called for an immediate cease-fire and direct talks between Kyiv and the separatists in the wake of the disaster and for an impartial investigation

And the next day July 19 he and Merkel issued a joint statement of agreement about the same thing.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-07-19/news/51744736_
1_eastern-ukraine-kremlin-statement-osce
Malaysian Airlines MH17 crash: Angela Merkel, Vladimir Putin agree on international probe of MH17 crash

And again on July 21

http://www.todayonline.com/world/russia-says-mh17-probe-should-be-done
-international-community-not-ukraine

Putin has been publicly calling for impartial international investigation from the beginning. That makes me think he had some specific condition he wanted as a characteristic of 'impartial international'. For example, not led by the Ukraine, the US, or Britain. SO - reading between the lines, I think there's a lot of wrangling going on as to the exact leadership and composition of the investigative team.

I'll be waiting to see how EXACTLY the team is headed and composed. From that I'll make a tentative assumption about what they're 'supposed' to find.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:35 AM

1kiki, look what else I found at your link. So this is where you and Sig shop for all your bullshit. I recognize a lot of stuff Sig posts. What a mess.

So if I read this right the headquarters for ISIS in the American Embassy in Ankara.

I don't care what you claim , just like your posts are twisted lies, there ain't no way you two are Americans. Ain't no way.

U.S. Embassy in Ankara Headquarter for ISIS War on Iraq – Hariri Insider

Iraq Turkey USA

"Christof Lehmann (nsnbc) : The green light for the use of ISIS brigades to carve up Iraq, widen the Syria conflict into a greater Middle East war and to throw Iran off-balance was given behind closed doors at the Atlantic Council meeting in Turkey, in November 2013, told a source close to Saudi – Lebanese billionaire Saad Hariri, adding that the U.S. Embassy in Ankara is the operation’s headquarter".

http://nsnbc.me/2014/06/22/u-s-embassy-in-ankara-headquarter-for-isis-
war-on-iraq-hariri-insider/

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:38 AM

Care to address WHAT I POSTED?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Care to address WHAT I POSTED?

Because I have had enough of you I will address it again this way. You stupid peace of shit. I addressed it by showing your source is a twisted propaganda machine. Look what I posted that I also got from your link. "ISIS headquarters is located in an American Embassy". How fucking stupid are you that you don't see that others will see what a complete fucking moron you are. Try selling it somewhere else comrade.

Here is another one "that's under current" suggests America was behind shooting down the plane because Europe would not fall in line with tougher sanctions. What better way to push the Europeans than by shooting down a plane full of them and blaming Russia. You tired piece of shit.

US Aims at Blowing EU-Russia Rift with Downed Airliner

"What would it take for the Americans to pull the Europeans into a more aggressive line?

Within hours of the Malaysian airliner smashing into the wheat fields in eastern Ukraine near the Russian border on Thursday evening, American official sources began drip-feeding their trusted news outlets with a narrative implicating Russia".

http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/20/us-aims-blowing-eu-russia-rift-downed-airli
ner/

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:13 AM

The first two sentences and two errors of logic. I presume you don't address the topic because you can't.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:18 AM

Hey Signym, come collect your trash.

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:30 AM

Are you waiting for pickup?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:34 AM

G, would it kill you to post the truth once in a while? From the REAL Wikipedia

Quote:
Zero Hedge is a news website, content aggregator, and collection of blogs by contributing editors. It reports on economics, Wall Street, and the financial sector and is credited with bringing the controversial practice of flash trading to public attention in 2009 via a series of posts alleging that Goldman Sachs' access to flash order information allowed the firm to gain unfair profits. The news portion of the site is written by a group of editors who collectively write under the pseudonym "Tyler Durden", a character from the novel & film Fight Club.

Profile

Zero Hedge was founded in January 2009.[2] Posts are signed "Tyler Durden," a character in the Chuck Palahniuk book and movie Fight Club,[3] reflecting the news site's activist posture.[2] Despite speculation that "Tyler Durden" is a pseudonym of Daniel Ivandjiiski,[3][4] who was penalized for insider trading in New York in September 2008,[5] Ivandjiiski denies being a founder of Zero Hedge. Rather, he says he is one of several writers contributing to the site under the pseudonym.[5] In an interview, "Durden" said there were four editors at Zero Hedge[2] but another editor says there are up to 40.[note 1][3] Editors have experience in various areas of finance and operations, differing from journalists who become experts about finance as they write about it, but have no practical work experience in the sector.[2] The online newspaper publishes anonymously to protect the editors from retaliation for dissident speech.[2] Durden maintains this protects its integrity, objectivity, and independence, as well. Durden cites the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and the 1995 United States Supreme Court case, McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission,[2] which upheld anonymity as a right of free speech.[6][note 2]
Readership and influence

By September 2009, Zero Hedge had begun drawing more traffic than more established financial websites[5] with 333,000 unique visitors a month, impressing even those[who?] who say the news site is full of conspiracy theory and "apocalyptic world view".[4] Durden says two-thirds of its readers are from Wall Street.[2] According to Quantcast, Zero Hedge has as of 2012 a monthly global traffic of 1.8 million people.[7] Under the name Tyler Durden, Ivandjiiski was interviewed on Bloomberg Radio[3][8] and Zero Hedge has been quoted in the Columbia Journalism Review.[9]

In December 2012, Bank of America blocked its employees' access to Zero Hedge.[10]

Zero Hedge celebrated one billion views in June 2013.[11]

Bill Gross, the head of PIMCO, is an avid Zero Hedge reader. On August 9, 2013 he tweeted, "Gross: Strategists/writers I follow? Dalio, Durden, Bianco, Arnott, Aitken, Santelli, Grant, Grantham, Inker, Marks, Quaintenance & Brodsky."[12]

Exposing Goldman Sachs

Zero Hedge is credited with bringing flash trading to public attention in 2009 with a series of posts alleging that Goldman Sachs had access to flash order information, allowing the firm to gain unfair profits.[3] It used New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) data to detect Goldman's flash trading advantage. The site contends that Goldman Sachs' alumni are at the center of a powerful cabal and that the solution is "a purifying market crash that leads to the elimination of the big banks altogether and the reinstatement of genuine free-market capitalism" - "Dow Zero."[3] The site drew the attention of the mainstream financial media and became a news source for reporters. Bloomberg News published stories based on Zero Hedge’s posts, such as “Goldman Sachs Loses Grip on Its Doomsday Machine,” by columnist Jonathan Weil.[3][13] The New York Times ran a front-page story on the high-frequency trading, detailing how it translated into billions of dollars of profit for Goldman Sachs and hedge funds.[14] The NYSE has since made a rule change and no long

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:36 AM

Yes, I'm waiting for that "bulky item" truck to come by and pick up this thing called THUGR.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:51 AM

Pervert truth: How rebel mourning MH17 victims was turned into looter with trophy
Published time: July 21, 2014 22:23

VIDEO

http://r9---sn-a5m7ln7k.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?ms=au&fexp=9
02408%2C914072%2C916625%2C923345%2C924220%2C924222%2C927622%2C929305%2C930008%2C934024%2C934030%2C945306%2C946023&ratebypass=yes&mt=1405986602&sver=3&itag=43&id=o-AAek9B_w38DRUJmZ-12LFTFuAsaE3Iwv-EHsnxXQyUt0&mv=m&upn=Eg25NI5gyOk&key=yt5&source=youtube&mws=yes&initcwndbps=11684000&ipbits=0&sparams=id%2Cinitcwndbps%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Cratebypass%2Csource%2Cupn%2Cexpire&signature=8EC4F1889EBCCA9EC26F78EA1AF6B02CECB3D65A.DE5C47D383CBEE84AFEA6E217BCC96982D65E8B4&ip=128.125.104.135&expire=1406008800&signature=undefined

A member of the self-defense forces holds up a stuffed animal as others look on at
the site of the crash of a Malaysian airliner carrying 298 people from Amsterdam to
Kuala Lumpur in Grabove, in east Ukraine, on July 18, 2014. (AFP Photo / Dominique
Faget)
Twitter is quick, but too quick sometimes – recently it burst with photos of an evil
Ukrainian militiaman who took a teddy bear from the victim of Malaysia plane crash
as a trophy. But the full video shows he was just paying the tribute to the dead.

The footage shows that one of the members of self-defense troops suddenly saw a teddy
bear which apparently belonged to a child who was among the 298 passenger on board the
Malaysian jet.

“We want those bastards to see whom they shot down,” the man said, “Do you see?”
meaning that there were innocent children who died in the crash.

-----------------
A photo signed “pro-Russian fighter holds up a toy found among the debris at the crash
site of MH17” has been used by such major media outlets as the BBC and NBC. Some
outlets went as far as to say that ‘pro-Russian fighters’ were collecting the
belongings of passengers of the doomed Malaysia Airlines MH17 flight.

“Pro-Russian Militants Pick Through Debris at Jet Crash Site,” wrote NBC and supported
the headline with the photo. The internet users posted this photo saying the
self-defense forces with OSCE observers were “picking through #MH17 jet debris.”

Some Twitter users called out for a ‘response’:

Ukraine’s news outlets were crueler to the members of self-defense forces at the scene
of a crashed plane; they called the man terrorist who stole the toy.

“The militants are taking the toys of the children, the tourists’ maps, the notebooks
of the businessmen,” wrote Ukraine’s sans census news website.

"Terrorist of people’s Republic of Donetsk with a trophy. [He is] ready for the
negotiations,” comments Ukraine’s news portal 24ua.me.

What really happened?

In reality, the photo was taken during a visit of 30 OSCE international observers who
arrived at the scene of the crashed plane to investigate the area. Among the OSCE group
were the members of self-defense forces in Donetsk region who accompanied them.

The footage shows that one of the members of self-defense troops suddenly saw a teddy
bear which apparently belonged to a child who was among the 298 passenger on board the
Malaysian jet.

“We want those bastards to see who they shot down,” the man said, “Do you see?” meaning
that there were innocent children who died in the crash.

Then he carefully put the toy back to a heap of other items that used to belong after
several days of waiting in vain, when no international experts managed to leave Kiev
to see the crash site, to the passengers. After that he took off his cap and marked
himself with a sign of the cross paying the tribute to the memory of the victims of the
catastrophe.

A member of Donetsk self-defense forces takes off his cap and crosses himself to pay
tribute to the victims of the Malaysia plane crash (screenshot from infrocorpus)

The MH17 flight crash site is a

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:02 AM

Dutch expert says Ukraine body recovery team 'did a hell of a job'

Quote:
(Reuters) - The Dutch head of a team sent to identify the victims of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 praised the Ukrainian recovery workers who collected hundreds of bodies from a giant swathe of land in a war zone for doing a "hell of a job".

Peter van Vliet, leader of a 3-man team of Dutch body identification experts, the first international investigators to visit the crash area, said his priority would be getting hundreds of bodies now stored in refrigerated rail cars to a location where they can be identified and sent home.

Despite reports that some of the bodies may have been looted and were never properly secured during days lying out in summer sun, van Vliet expressed admiration for the recovery crews that gathered them.

"I'm very impressed about the work that was done over here," he said after inspecting the main crash site, where bodies were still being found a day earlier pinned under chunks of aircraft wreckage. Citing the heat and the scale of the site, he said: "I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place."

Asked how he felt as a Dutchman at a site where so many of his countrymen were killed, he said he had goosebumps despite the heat.

MORE AT...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/us-ukraine-crisis-recovery-i
dUSKBN0FQ14Q20140721

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:07 AM

Oh, one more thing...

MAL4

I've answered your questions several times. You may not like the answers, but I answered them.

OTOH, I've asked you several times to produce links for information that YOU claimed was 'all over the news'. I went to several websites and couldn't find it, and QUITE FRANKLY I find it suspicious that this news item -which came out with trumpets blaring, can no longer be found. So please, bring up those links IF YOU CAN.

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:46 PM

Rebels in eastern Ukraine have handed over two flight-data recorders from the downed MH17 plane to Malaysian experts.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28413467

Quote:
The head of the Malaysian delegation told reporters that the recorders were "in good condition".

The handover followed talks between the rebel commander and self-styled Prime Minister of the Donetsk People's Republic Alexander Borodai and the Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak, Mr Najib said in statement.

He also said those talks led to the rebels agreeing to allow the bodies to be transported to Kharkiv and international investigators to access the area.

"In recent days, there were times I wanted to give greater voice to the anger and grief that the Malaysian people feel and that I feel," he said.

"But sometimes, we must work quietly in the service of a better outcome."

So far, so promising.

In spite of my initial impression that only the separatists could display incompetence on the level that would lead to something like this, I'm leaning toward reserving judgment at this point. Time will, hopefully, tell.

(I still don't buy that anyone did this intentionally.)

But so far, it makes perfect sense that the separatists would want to hand over these recorders to the "rightful owner", a reasonably neutral party.

Or am I reading this wrong?

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:40 PM

AGENT

What I get out of all of this is that the Ukrainian separatists were told to leave the bodies alone, but that the international investigators were held up in Kiev

So while the investigators were stuck elsewhere, the separatists finally couldn't stand the disrespect, picked up the bodies (and, no, they didn't "loot" them, see the VIDEO above), put them in refrigerated rail cars, and sent them on their way to the Nederlands with Nederlander investigators who had been avoidably detained.

Quote:
I've seen various opinions on their value. I think at first it was more of if someone is trying to hide them then that shows guilt.

Meanwhile, the black boxes were waiting in Donetsk for someone besides Kiev to pick them up. (That's why the rebels said they were holding them- to prevent tampering by Kiev.) While that, there was fighting in Donetsk- possibly a spec ops team sent to snatch them, but they were ultimately sent safely to Malaysia.

Russia has satellite pictures of Ukrainan BUK missile installation, plus radar screen grabs of fighter jets near the airliner. What I've read elsewhere - but have no opinion on the credibility- is that

Quote:
The dog-not-barking question on the catastrophe over Ukraine is: what did the U.S. surveillance satellite imagery show? It’s hard to believe that – with the attention that U.S. intelligence has concentrated on eastern Ukraine for the past half year that the alleged trucking of several large Buk anti-aircraft missile systems from Russia to Ukraine and then back to Russia didn’t show up somewhere.

Yes, there are limitations to what U.S. spy satellites can see. But the Buk missiles are about 16 feet long and they are usually mounted on trucks or tanks. Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 also went down during the afternoon, not at night, meaning the missile battery was not concealed by darkness.

So why hasn’t this question of U.S. spy-in-the-sky photos – and what they reveal – been pressed by the major U.S. news media? How can the Washington Post run front-page stories, such as the one on Sunday with the definitive title “U.S. official: Russia gave systems,” without demanding from these U.S. officials details about what the U.S. satellite images disclose? ....

Obama, meanwhile, has produced a torrent of words but - as far as I can tell- no real evidence.

Maybe he can get someone to go in front of the UN with a vial of laundry powder and grainy pictures of unremarkable buildings? [/heavy sarcasm]

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 2:28 PM

G. I didn't get into the "predictions" business until after the referendum was held in Crimea, and I thought it would be fun to write future headlines. What I meant was that I DID predict that Russia would send troops into eastern Ukraine and so far, I got it wrong.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57588

Also, I did say that it was the naval base in Sevastopol that was the reason for the focus on Ukraine

Quote:
And Obama was going to do the same to Syria. If it hadn't been for that rather impressive fleet of Russian warships and aircraft-carrier destroyers off the coast of Syria, we would have gone whole-hog into bombing Syria too. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that it was that Russian fleet in the eastern Mediterranean (coming from the Sevastopol naval base) that put Ukraine back on the front burner.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58044

I was pretty sure that Sevastopol would be a major contention. I couldn't in a million years imagine Putin giving it up. Yanno, one of the things that focuses my thinking is to sit and try to quiet my mind and come up with (what I think of as) a reasonable prediction of what will happen next?

So, what do you think will happen next?

SECOND

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, what do you think will happen next?

There will be more nonsense coming from Russians. www.newrepublic.com/node/118782 Did you know Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was full of corpses when it took off from Amsterdam? Did you know that the plane had been recently reinsured and was crashed for the insurance money? Or that the Ukrainian army has air defense systems in the area and the Ukrainian military mistook MH17 for Putin’s presidential plane, which looks strangely similar?

Did you know that the crash of MH17 was all part of an American conspiracy to provoke a big war with Russia?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:34 PM

When I first starting posting here I confronted Signym’s posting style as Subjective and meant to confuse. I also pointed out that she is biased and posting delusional concepts of current events. This is a perfect example of her biases. The fact that throughout this tread she posted no links to sources seemed unusual to me. Now I know why. The responses coming from the separatists and being put forth on Russian air waves were undeniably lies. Daily as additional information about the shoot down became public they became more and more absurd as SECOND pointed out.

In a not too distant thread, Sig suggested an Iranian news outlet as a good source of information about what’s going on in the Middle East. Her words were (if you really what to know what’s going on) check out this Iranian news outlet. The Iranian’s who fund and send weapons to Hamas and Syria. We already know she favors Russian news sources over the west. This tells me anything she perceives as counter to Russian world policies she is against. The United States, Europe, Israel and all our allies. 1kiki foolishly posted a link that leads us to where Sig gets her concepts. News reporting on all topics full of allegations and covert messages that outright imply or hint to, it’s the wests fault.

Yep, here is a few. An American Embassy is ISIS headquarters. Americans are behind the shooting down of the aircraft to get the Europeans pissed off at Russia and impose tougher sanctions. I would point out SECONDS post as some more.

I think many who have given credibility to Sig’s insights in the past have done so because of her posting style which makes her posts too much work to sort through. Nobody gets this biased in a short period of time. Her perceptions go way back and she has to have been feeding her nonsense within these threads for many years. She takes a current event, goes to her biased sources and takes outrageous ideas and tones them down so she can slip them with subtlety into her posts. Then she and 1kiki wear doubters down to where they move on or stop posting responses. After this thread my approach to responding to them will be short, to the point and over.

We live in a society where governments, corporations, religious institutions and even charities lie, manipulate and deceive. I can’t deny any of that, but history shows us which policies and types of governments gives us the best shot at survival and advancement. If when topics show up on these threads they are met with the kind of preconceived responses and biases put forth by Sig and 1kiki those preconceived concepts must be challenged. Then they should be dismissed from serious contemplation.

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:04 PM

Originally posted by second:
There will be more nonsense coming from Russians.

Interesting. When I read that it was attributed to a pro-Russia separatist.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SECOND

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Interesting. When I read that it was attributed to a pro-Russia separatist.

Putin's propaganda machine has built a very strange story about MH17 and the Russian ruling class has to watch this nonsense in order to stay au courant. They become less sane as a result, which limits their ability to adequately assess the situation and devise a good way out of it. Any rational political arguments have to be hidden and packaged in idiotic, jingoistic rhetoric.

All this is ultimately undermines Russia's interests and only increase the odds of punitive moves from European countries. But a Russian public that's unaware of what hot water the country is in won't be ready for the kind of apologetic posture that would maximize Putin's ability to make nice over the plane without making substantive concessions around Ukraine. www.vox.com/2014/7/21/5922685/putins-propaganda-machine-has-built-a-ve
ry-strange-story-about-mh17

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:05 PM

SECOND

Did you know that- according to Kiev- there was chloroform in the Odessa Trades Union building, and that the victims (who were so clearly killed and THEN burned, as the pictures showed) "actually" died of partially- combusted chloroform instead? I wonder... Has Kiev not YET done autopsies on the victims to determine cause of death? Why is this still a matter of speculation?

Did you know that there was a mink coat which came to life, bit it's owner to death and then ran off? It's TRUE! I saw it at the checkstand!

If you notice, I don't quote those stories.

And unfortunately, not reading Russian, I can't tell how much of this is official, or the equivalent of checkstand nonsense. If it's official, it would tend to increase pressure on Putin to "do something" in Ukraine, and right now Putin seems completely unwilling to do anything. It's the equivalent of Obama drawing "red lines" and then slinking away from them. If official, it's counterproductive to Putin staying in power over the long term. If not official ... the equivalent of the Enquirer... then it's just the same as some of media which prints nonsense.

Anyway, that's why I try to stick to verifiable evidence.

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND

Did you know that- according to Kiev- there was chloroform in the Odessa Trades Union building, and that the victims (who were so clearly killed and THEN burned, as the pictures showed) "actually" died of partially- combusted chloroform instead? I wonder... Has Kiev not YET done autopsies on the victims to determine cause of death? Why is this still a matter of speculation?

Did you know that there was a mink coat which came to life, but it's owner to death and then ran off? It's TRUE! I saw it at the checkstand!

If you notice, I don't quote those stories.

And unfortunately, not reading Russian, I can't tell how much of this is official, or the equivalent of checkstand nonsense. If it's official, it would tend to increase pressure on Putin to "do something" in Ukraine, and right now Putin seems completely unwilling to do anything. It's the equivalent of Obama drawing "red lines" which he then slinks away from. If official, it's counterproductive to Putin staying in power over the long term. If not official ... the equivalent of the Enquirer... then it's just the same as some of media which prints nonsense.

Anyway, that's why I try to stick to verifiable evidence.

One, I don't believe a word you say and two I can't read Russian but at the click of a button I can have it translated, just like you can. Your lies along with trying to change the focus to another story are as transparent as the kremlins.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:25 PM

Not trying to divert attention, just trying to keep it where it belongs: On the evidence. That's why I don't care WHERE the info comes from- if it's verifiable then it's good. You OTOH seem to need someone to tell you what the truth is.

Did you notice that I posted a new thread from Zerohedge which carries a USA news release about the proposed trajectory of the missile? Go check it out. It will be in the mainstream press later.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:29 PM

Quote:
One, I don't believe a word you say

Oh, BTW... From the Interior Ministry, via the Kiev Post (which I check out from time to time). There was a longer article previously available- this updated one will have to do.

Interior Ministry: Chloroform discovered in Odessa Trade Unions building where 32 died

Quote:
A top Ukrainian Interior Ministry official said on May 19 that 32 pro-Russia protesters who retreated inside Odessa’s Trade Unions building after clashes with pro-Ukraine activists and later died when the building was torched on May 2 might have been poisoned with chloroform.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/interior-ministry-chloroform-d
iscovered-in-odessa-trade-unions-building-348449.html

Stick it up your ass- sideways!

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Not trying to divert attention, just trying to keep it where it belongs: On the evidence. That's why I don't care WHERE the info comes from- if it's verifiable then it's good. You OTOH seem to need someone to tell you what the truth is.

Did you notice that I posted a new thread from Zerohedge which carries a USA news release about the proposed trajectory of the missile? Go check it out. It will be in the mainstream press later.

No I did not notice. I really don't care what you post at this point. But since sanctions is a reason your propaganda machine listed as a why America is involved in the shoot down, I will post an opinion that suggests a different approach may work better.

"sanctions aren't even necessary. President Obama should instead threaten to expose what Putin cares about most: stolen Russian money.

According to the independent InDem Foundation in Moscow, $318 billion a year is frittered away annually in this resource-rich resurgent empire due to corruption. That's the equivalent of one third of Russia's Gross Domestic Product. Revolutions have erupted for less than that.

Putin and his inner circle posture to their domestic constituency as great Russian patriots, a bulwark against a cynical and decadent West, but they prefer to spend and invest their money in America and Europe. Their economic vices are similar to their martial ones in that they adopt a form of financial maskirovka, too. Offshore bank accounts, semi-anonymous real estate holdings in the south of France, the Ivory Coast, London, South Beach, Miami and New York City; commercial ventures controlled by third-party nominees in dummy companies registered in no-questions-asked jurisdictions such as British Virgin Islands, the Bahamas, and Cyprus - this is how the Kremlin elite stows its vast, ill-gotten wealth".

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/games-putin-plays-article-1.1872566

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:38 PM

But you won't admit you're wrong about the chloroform article. Of course. And now, YOU'RE just trying to divert attention. Hey, I got a real life, and engaging in nonsense with you isn't on the list of priorities.

THGRRI

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 2:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But you won't admit you're wrong about the chloroform article. Of course. And now, YOU'RE just trying to divert attention. Hey, I got a real life, and engaging in nonsense with you isn't on the list of priorities.

If you are asking me to confirm I was wrong about the chloroform incident in the Ukraine then you need to show me when I commented on that because I don't know what you are talking about.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 2:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

...Why the hell was Malaysian Airlines flying over that airspace? All airlines were warned back in April to avoid that region.

There were 55 other flights using that same flight path already one that day, none of which were shot down. They weren't being Maverick.

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:14 AM

Sig, you are rappy in my mind. I don't care if it's a sock situation, have no interest in making that call. You are just as unreasonable and dickish and superior and inflexible as he is. And so I have no interest in engaging with you anymore, except to occasionally mock you for how wonked you are.

So please continue to dismiss all evidence you don't like and cling to all that tinfoil hat bs that fits your fantasies. Write those long posts devoid of anything factual while you demand cold hard facts from others. I'll ignore most of it, but certainly won't resist chiming in when you go especially nutters. Cause its fun.

Which is exactly my relationship with rap.

THGRRI has been arguing the same ideas as me on this thread, but the way he tumbles is just like you and rap. Dickish, name-calling, taking every thread into a personal fight so that his roll with you becomes the focus.

And in recent posts he claims to know what you were like when you were reasonable in long past years, even though he just joined a few months ago.

Hmm.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

SECOND

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:38 AM

Anne Applebaum on MH17: What happened, how it happened and who was responsible
Some months ago the Russians invaded eastern Ukraine in a very unorthodox manner.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

1KIKI

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:28 AM

Mal4

It pains me to see you sink to paranoid conspiracies. You see links everywhere that I know for a fact don't exist. A simple use of the map function here would help you sort out who is where and should help you disprove at least some of your suspicions.

Anyway, while I'm not Sig (whether you believe that or not is up to you), I'd like to ask you about this since it caught my attention: "all evidence you don't like". What evidence is that? Statements by people? I don't know about you, but I don't count that as evidence. If someone is going to ask me to think the world is flat - or round - their say-so isn't evidence. And the say-so of various people, whether government or media, or other, isn't good enough for me here, either. For one side with their say-so, there is an opposing side with theirs. These people had damn well better give me some data to back it up before I give it credit.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
A simple use of the map function here would help you sort out who is where and should help you disprove at least some of your suspicions.

LOL! You discount web videos and photos posted by Ukrainian separatists, information that is no doubt combed over by hackers and well paid spies all over the world since any provable falseness would gain immediate worldwide recognition and fame...

But you point to a weak and rarely used mapping function on an obscure sci-fi TV show web site as a source of Ultimate Truth as to your identity and trustfulness...

/not convinced

/laughing at you and all yours

/can you really be serious about this?

/does this response not answer all your other questions as to why I think you are full of shit as to "evidence" you accept and that you don't?

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:56 AM

double double toil and trouble

1KIKI

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:57 AM

Uhm - I assure you that not too many of us here have the resources to, or interest in, spoofing our locations. Almost none of us are covert government operatives with lots of resources. (I wouldn't put it past one or two posters to be disinformation specialists or informers.)

As for this: "You discount web videos and photos posted by Ukrainian separatists ..." I haven't seen them. I also don't think they were linked here where I might see them. All I know about them is what 'people' say. And, as I indicated, I don't accept things on a say-so. My position was, is, and shall be that I'm waiting for verifiable facts.

Until then, for unsupported claims posted by believers, I know that there are equally unsupported claims to the contrary. Which is why I do poke fun sometimes at the seriousness with which some people take government pronouncements, and the media reports dutifully echoing them. But given the lack of verifiable facts on either side, I make no claims of my own about 'the truth'.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:05 AM

Quote:
….Mal4prez

THGRRI has been arguing the same ideas as me on this thread, but the way he tumbles is just like you and rap. Dickish, name-calling, taking every thread into a personal fight so that his roll with you becomes the focus. And in recent posts he claims to know what you were like when you were reasonable in long past years, even though he just joined a few months ago. Hmm.

Yea ok, first of all you were late to this dance professor so you actually were arguing points I had long been arguing, and not just in this thread.

When you suggest I am turning every thread into a personal fight so that my roll becomes the focus, all I can say is really? I mean really? It could not possibly have anything to do with the fact too many here are so ideological, that it creates a problem for someone who won’t pick a side just to make friends.

I think perhaps you need to widen your gaze to encompass the entire RWDT, who posts here and the amazing amount of dysfunctional attitudes on display. It makes for some interesting sessions.

Lastly I did not claim to know how Signym was reasonable in years past. What I said is you must have been bamboozled, you claimed Sig was reasonable in the recent past. I suggested no one changes that much that fast. I noticed you pulled the same shit with me before by suggesting I was something with Rappy in another thread. You said you predicted it. I ask to see this prediction but you disappeared.

You need to stop thinking the world of your deductive skills. At least until you display some. I followed your link awhile ago to a thread you started and noticed a very interesting post. It is starting to look like this guy nailed you to a tea.

THGRRI

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Anne Applebaum on MH17: What happened, how it happened and who was responsible
Some months ago the Russians invaded eastern Ukraine in a very unorthodox manner.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Always nice to meet other voices of reason in these threads. Nice bit of posting you have been doing.

1KIKI

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:43 AM

"Always nice to meet other voices of reason in these threads. Nice bit of posting you have been doing."

Yep. More blah blah blah. Very nice.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:10 AM

Meanwhile, the USA intelligence agencies do a major walk-back from the assertions they were making, oh just a few short hours ago, when they had proof... PROOF, I TELL YOU! VIDEOS! ... All over the media!..... that Russia gave missiles to the separatists

US: No direct link to Russia found in MH17 attack
http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/us-no-evidence-of-direct-link-to-russia-i
n-mh17-attack/

U.S.: No evidence of Russian government in plane downing
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/us-evidence-direct-russian-link-pl
ane/

US: No link to Russian gov't in plane downing
http://news.msn.com/world/us-no-link-to-russian-govt-in-plane-downing

Awww, hell, this deserves a thread of its own.
--------

MAL4, you used to be a reasonable person. And yanno what? I'm still the anti-corporate, anti-tyranny person I used to be. But I did ONE THING to piss you off, and you still haven't figured it out.

As for "all of your info", well, you haven't brought it here. No links, no evidence, no nothing. All I'm looking for is something verifiable. There's no sin in that.

Sorry hon, but the person who's in the wrong here isn't me.

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Yea ok, first of all you were late to this dance professor so you actually were arguing points I had long been arguing, and not just in this thread.

I didn't realize I had to ask your permission before I could post if I don't get in right away.

Quote:
When you suggest I am turning every thread into a personal fight so that my roll becomes the focus, all I can say is really? I mean really?

Yes. Yes. You've been on this site for a month and a half and you have slipped right into the Rappy role vs Sig. And you acted very familiar with other posters who've been here years. And from moment one you got into personal fights. You took no time to get to know people, but jumped right on them.

What's RWDT? You mean RWED? Dude, I've been on this site for 9 years. I know the personalities and dysfunctions just fine.

Quote:
Lastly I did not claim to know how Signym was reasonable in years past. What I said is you must have been bamboozled, you claimed Sig was reasonable in the recent past. I suggested no one changes that much that fast.

They do if they confuse the characters they are playing.

Quote:
You need to stop thinking the world of your deductive skills.

No.

Quote:
At least until you display some. I followed your link awhile ago to a thread you started and noticed a very interesting post. It is starting to look like this guy nailed you to a tea.

Which guy? What the hell are you talking about? Nailed to a "tea"? You may be the awesome king/queen at deduction and understanding online personalities instantaneously, but you sure don't communicate worth shit LOL!

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:35 PM

MAL4, is your PM working? If I PM you with something that may clear up your suspicions, is that OK? Because there is a very simple explanation for what you think you see, and it isn't what you think.

AFA what you think of as my "changed personality", I did ONE THING different, and I did it on purpose and with forethought. I take full credit or blame for whatever changes you think you see. It's not a sock puppet thing.

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:58 PM

As I pointed out in the thread you started, nice strawman.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MAL4, you used to be a reasonable person. And yanno what? I'm still the anti-corporate, anti-tyranny person I used to be. But I did ONE THING to piss you off, and you still haven't figured it out.

No. One thing rolls off my back. Consistent blind bias I find annoying, especially when it's attached to a gifted brain, and it results in you often being dickish.

You know, like saying: "Try and keep up" regarding an article I'd seen days ago.

Quote:
As for "all of your info", well, you haven't brought it here. No links, no evidence, no nothing. All I'm looking for is something verifiable. There's no sin in that.

A good summary of the US govt's situation:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-discloses-int
elligence-on-downing-of-malaysian-jet/2014/07/22/b178fe58-11e1-11e4-98ee-daea85133bc9_story.html?hpid=z1

It includes pictures of three sightings of the missile show it's direction of movement on July 17.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-intelligence-
states-its-case-on-the-shoot-down-of-mh17/2014/07/22/a2c6ca44-11f9-11e4-98ee-daea85133bc9_graphic.html

Then there's buzzfeed:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/locals-say-rebels-moved-missile-laun
cher-shortly-before-mala

"Several locals said that the launcher had driven down Gagarina Street, one of the town’s main thoroughfares, toward the town of Snizhne, near where Ukraine and the U.S. say the missile was fired. Though convoys of heavy equipment have become a regular sight in Torez since the conflict between pro-Russian separatists and the government in Kiev started in April, workers in one store said that the one that passed through last Thursday was much louder than ones they had seen before.

The locals all asked not to be identified for fear of reprisal from the rebels, who control the town. Many of the residents who spoke to BuzzFeed denied knowing anything about the launcher or claimed that it had never passed through the town.

While the locals’ accounts do not prove that the rebels fired the missile, they do undermine their denials of ever owning such a system. The entire area around Torez is rebel-controlled, and there are rebel checkpoints on all the entrances to town."

[A photo on the buzzfeed article shows the smoke trail of the missile. Caption says:] "BuzzFeed also visited the location where this photo, uploaded to Twitter on Thursday, was taken, apparently capturing the trail of smoke from the rocket in a field south of Snizhne."

[The article continues:]

The vantage point of the photo also corresponds with recordings Ukraine posted a day after the attack of what it said were rebels discussing moving the rocket. “You get there and Pervomaiske’s round there, look on the map,” says a man on the recording identified as Sergei Petrovsky, a rebel intelligence officer nicknamed “Gloomy.”

“Get set up in that area somewhere, get the men you have left over there,” continues the man identified as Petrovsky. “Your job is backup, plus guarding the thing you’re going to take over there.”

A video of the rocket launcher moving through a town. Buzzfeed claims to have verified the location it was taken.

A more in depth discussion of just how trustworthy or not the evidence is:
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-154-heavy-fighting-
in-donetsk/#3487

Quote:
Sorry hon, but the person who's in the wrong here isn't me.

Prove it sweetie pie. I haven't seen you do ANYTHING of the like. I have yet to see you post anything but your hunches based on how much you hate the West.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*---------------------------------------------

SECOND

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Meanwhile, the USA intelligence agencies do a major walk-back from the assertions they were making, oh just a few short hours ago, when they had proof... PROOF, I TELL YOU! VIDEOS! ... All over the media!..... that Russia gave missiles to the separatists

US: No direct link to Russia found in MH17 attack
http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/us-no-evidence-of-direct-link-to-russia-i
n-mh17-attack/

U.S.: No evidence of Russian government in plane downing
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/us-evidence-direct-russian-link-pl
ane/

US: No link to Russian gov't in plane downing
http://news.msn.com/world/us-no-link-to-russian-govt-in-plane-downing

Awww, hell, this deserves a thread of its own.
--------
Sorry hon, but the person who's in the wrong here isn't me.

You are in the wrong. Look beyond the headline of each story and links back to Russia are mentioned:

US: No direct link to Russia found in MH17 attack
http://nypost.com/2014/07/22/us-no-evidence-of-direct-link-to-russia-i
n-mh17-attack/
“. . . senior intelligence officials on Tuesday blamed Moscow for supplying the missile. Officials said Russia “created the conditions” that led to the deadly attack by arming the Ukrainian rebels suspected of firing the SA-11 surface-to-air missile that blew the Boeing 777 out of the sky on Thursday.”

U.S.: No evidence of Russian government in plane downing
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/us-evidence-direct-russian-link-pl
ane/
“The plane was likely shot down by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, the intelligence officials said, citing intercepts, satellite photos and social media postings by separatists, some of which have been authenticated by U.S. experts.
But the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian operatives were present at the missile launch.”

US: No link to Russian gov't in plane downing
http://news.msn.com/world/us-no-link-to-russian-govt-in-plane-downing
This story URL was updated to point at this other story: US: Russia 'created the conditions' for shoot-down
http://news.msn.com/world/us-russia-created-the-conditions-for-shoot-d
own

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:05 PM

I've asked for links several times over, because it's not up to me to find links to support YOUR statements, is it?

You finally brought them to the table. It sure took a long time, but that's all I was asking for. So- finally. something for me to review.

Thanks.

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've asked for links several times over, because it's not up to me to find links to support YOUR statements, is it?

You finally brought them to the table. It sure took a long time, but that's all I was asking for. So- finally. something for me to review.

Thanks.

Can't do your own homework? Just sit around moaning about how you base all your ideas on *evidence*, yet you make no effort to find it?

Try and keep up kiddo. I won't do this for you all the time.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:07 PM

SECOND- this is being discussed in the "Major walk-back" thread, which is much shorter and easier to follow. Please go there. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58369

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:10 PM

Quote:
Can't do your own homework? Just sit around moaning about how you base all your ideas on *evidence*, yet you make no effort to find it? Try and keep up kiddo. I won't do this for you all the time.

You mean MAL4 that you're complaining about HAVING TO SUPPORT YOUR OWN STATEMENTS? How is that that YOUR statements become MY homework?

WTF???

SHEESH!!! Try to keep up, indeed!

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Can't do your own homework? Just sit around moaning about how you base all your ideas on *evidence*, yet you make no effort to find it? Try and keep up kiddo. I won't do this for you all the time.

You mean MAL4 that you're complaining about HAVING TO SUPPORT YOUR OWN STATEMENTS? How is that that YOUR statements become MY homework?

WTF???

SHEESH!!! Try to keep up, indeed!

And still you post absolutely nothing but insults and opinions based on bias.

Is that really all you got?

ETA: actually this points directly to why I get so frustrated with you. This thread did not have to be me versus you. This board ccould be about discussing what's happening out there, but with you it never is. You go and make a declaration and sit back and demand that people prove you wrong. You do no figuring out on your own, no proving of anything on your own, but still are incredibly superior and judgmental, especially if anyone DARES to do what you do - voicing an opinion without publishing a fully annotated supporting thesis. It's a fucking chat site sig!

Is it not anyone's *job* to prove you wrong. Yet in thread after thread you create that exact situation. And you know what, you're almost always a dick about it. Yes, I am being a dick back at this point, because you have been so thoroughly annoying I have no reason to try for a convivial relationship with you.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MAL4, is your PM working? If I PM you with something that may clear up your suspicions, is that OK? Because there is a very simple explanation for what you think you see, and it isn't what you think.

AFA what you think of as my "changed personality", I did ONE THING different, and I did it on purpose and with forethought. I take full credit or blame for whatever changes you think you see. It's not a sock puppet thing.

I missed this post. PM away.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:30 PM

Even if you don't speak Russian (I sure don't) this is informative:

http://avva.livejournal.com/2787603.html?thread=107583763

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've asked for links several times over, because it's not up to me to find links to support YOUR statements, is it?
You finally brought them to the table. It sure took a long time, but that's all I was asking for. So- finally. something for me to review.
Thanks.

Here it is in a nutshell… SIGNYM… You just admitted to all you only look for ways to disprove what others are saying because you have an agenda and do not care about the truth. Here it is, you asking for the other side of the story because you only researched one side, yours. How could you possible know what the truth is without having researched what both sides are saying?

So finally the truth comes out. Sig only looks for the propaganda and not the whole story. Thanks Sig, nicely done. We are not trying to prove our argument, we are trying to explain to you what really happened.

And this is why you chickened out when I accepted your offer to argue different sides. I was ready to go.

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:20 AM

Psssst, Pssssst Signym, hey Signym. 1kiki whats up with this shit?.....ooops

"(Reuters) - A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had an anti-aircraft missile of the type Washington says was used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and it could have originated in Russia.

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.

Khodakovsky blamed the Kiev authorities for provoking what may have been the missile strike that destroyed the doomed airliner, saying Kiev had deliberately launched air strikes in the area, knowing the missiles were in place".

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/23/us-ukraine-crisis-commander-
exclusive-idUSKBN0FS1V920140723

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 4:46 AM

"(Reuters) - A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had an anti-aircraft missile of the type Washington says was used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and it could have originated in Russia.

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.

Khodakovsky blamed the Kiev authorities for provoking what may have been the missile strike that destroyed the doomed airliner, saying Kiev had deliberately launched air strikes in the area, knowing the missiles were in place".

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKBN0FS1V920140723

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI
Here it is, you asking for the other side of the story because you only researched one side, yours. How could you possible know what the truth is without having researched what both sides are saying?

I still trust you as far as my skinny arms could throw you THG, but *this*. You nailed it. That is exactly what's fcuked about what sig has been doing lately.

However, I know the old sig and you don't. I have insight that you don't. She used to be The Information Provider for RWED. She used to be links and facts galore. Really.

And now she says she changed something. ONE thing.

I begin to wonder if she is being a vacuum, void, emptiness of information on purpose, to make a point of how it was for her when no one else did research that fit her rigorous standards. Perhaps she is now purposely playing the role of old Rap.

(Speaking of which: Hey THG, FU very much for being on this site barely 1.5 months and thinking you have any basis to judge my ability to judge other posters. As I explained but you may be too much of an ass to grok, I've had 9 years of history with these "people." There's all kinds of shit you don't know about in our past, so don't be trying to draw conclusions. It just makes you look like a troll or a sock. Or both.)

So sig, is that what you changed? You now refuse to contribute any information, but only demand it of others? If so, not very chivalrous of you to play such games.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:38 AM

Also, for sig's further enlightenment:

http://news.sky.com/story/1306134/rebels-mh17-site-sabotage-plan-inter
cepted

Rebels planned to sabotage the investigation into Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 by scattering parts of other planes at the crash site, according to Sky sources.

UK intelligence officials intercepted communications between pro-Russian separatists, seemingly discussing deliberate attempts to tamper with the scene of the disaster.

Evidence indicates rebels talked about removing victims' remains from the fields of Grabovo, where the plane was shot down.

Sky sources in Whitehall added that the rebels also considered sending the black boxes to Moscow.

Sky's Defence Correspondent Alistair Bunkall said the sources claimed the separatists wanted to confuse the situation further for investigators.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Also, for sig's further enlightenment:

http://news.sky.com/story/1306134/rebels-mh17-site-sabotage-plan-inter
cepted

Rebels planned to sabotage the investigation into Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 by scattering parts of other planes at the crash site, according to Sky sources.

UK intelligence officials intercepted communications between pro-Russian separatists, seemingly discussing deliberate attempts to tamper with the scene of the disaster.

Evidence indicates rebels talked about removing victims' remains from the fields of Grabovo, where the plane was shot down.

Sky sources in Whitehall added that the rebels also considered sending the black boxes to Moscow.

Sky's Defence Correspondent Alistair Bunkall said the sources claimed the separatists wanted to confuse the situation further for investigators.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

I have had one suggest I should have shown more respect and gotten to know the lay of the land before I ventured so deep into voicing my opinion.

We have known's and we have unknowns. You know nothing about me or how long I have monitored the site before joining, or anything else about me. You don't know it but you are the one running blind here.

As for Sig. I'll stick with my impressions and forgo yours thanks. Mine have worked well for me so far. Now I would prefer to end the hostilities here. The balls in your court.

SIGNYM

Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:58 AM

THUGR, if you had read my first post asking for the information that MAL4 said was "all over" the news, you would have heard the the backstory: I overheard about it at work, I was away from a PC for some time (in a meeting), by the time I GOT to the internet a few hours later, the info that was "all over" the news was already gone. I checked a day or two later in BBC, Reuters, and a couple other major sites, scanned the headlines, scanned the subheadlines, and didn't find anything anywhere. I DID look for it, in places where I would expect to find it, and I didn't.

So, I should start googling MAL4's posts for her?

Really?

And MAL4, you should have remembered that yourself. But like a lot of things you say, you're kinda biased, so I'm not surprised.

Quote:
So sig, is that what you changed? You now refuse to contribute any information, but only demand it of others? If so, not very chivalrous of you to play such games.

I'm still providing information and links galore, it's just not information that you like to see.

What did I change? I used to focus on the rightwing here, and that was a very comfortable spot for liberals to be in. But I'm not really a liberal, and I changed my focus to criticize liberal causes and liberal memes, Obama included, to see how liberals responded to having their ideas challenged.

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THUGR, if you had read my first post asking for the information that MAL4 said was "all over" the news, you would have heard the the backstory: I overheard about it at work, I was away from a PC for some time (in a meeting), by the time I GOT to the internet a few hours later, the info that was "all over" the news was already gone. I checked a day or two later in BBC, Reuters, and a couple other major sites, scanned the headlines, scanned the subheadlines, and didn't find anything anywhere. I DID look for it, in places where I would expect to find it, and I didn't.

So, I should start googling MAL4's posts for her?

Really?

And MAL4, you should have remembered that yourself. But like a lot of things you say, you're kinda biased, so I'm not surprised.

What you are claiming now does not explain away the entire statement you made in that post. That said you have taken quite the abuse lately (deserved or not) and it is time to put it to bed.

Besides I could kill you with my brain.

SIGNYM

Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:10 AM

What brain?

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You stepped into that one!

GEEZER

Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/21/ukrainian-su-25-jet-near-malaisian-flight-m
h17-rostov-air-traffic-control/

NSNBC.ME? Hah

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nsnbc.me

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

I have had one suggest I should have shown more respect and gotten to know the lay of the land before I ventured so deep into voicing my opinion.

We have known's and we have unknowns. You know nothing about me or how long I have monitored the site before joining, or anything else about me. You don't know it but you are the one running blind here.

As for Sig. I'll stick with my impressions and forgo yours thanks. Mine have worked well for me so far. Now I would prefer to end the hostilities here. The balls in your court.

that suggestion was mine. It's not a hard rule, just a physicist's logic of how action a leads to reaction a and action b leads to result b. joining a new community you have options: 1. act like a dick. Result: be judged to be a dick. You can figure out the other options, right?

So now you say you have this monumental deep knowledge of RWED (or the other way you spell it because you are an ignorant noob) and yet you tell no one of your experience and wisdom and play to be a stupid noob. (You played it well. ) You expect that big fucking game to be acceptable because... ?

Dude, if you ever wonder why no one here likes you, even those like me who take your side on some issues, you need not look far for an explanation. You, by your own admission quoted above, joined this site under false pretenses.

You never once said - hey poster X, you don't know me but I've followed you for the past Y months/years... (how long did you lurk THG, or are you really just a sock?) you didn't do that THG. You were not forthright.

You, sir, are a liar.

Hence all the hate pointed at you. You really did earn it. Enjoy.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THUGR, if you had read my first post asking for the information that MAL4 said was "all over" the news, you would have heard the the backstory: I overheard about it at work, I was away from a PC for some time (in a meeting), by the time I GOT to the internet a few hours later, the info that was "all over" the news was already gone.

Wow. I had no idea that you were so helpless. WTH websites do you check? It was not hard to find! At all! I've been in meetings all week and I had no problem.

Especially ironic: your "try to keep up" regarding an article that you said had been posted, idk, some hours ago. I'd seen it DAYS ago, I just didn't mis-apply it the way you did. Assumption was all yours.

Now you admit to being disconnected from the latest news. Poor you! No one should be a bitch and tell you to keep up, right? Goose and Gander, hey?

Hell sig, I don't buy it. If you're going to post the way you do you NEED to get off your ass and try to keep up.

Lesson: don't play the superiority card when you are obviously not better informed than the rest of us. That's what you're saying now, that you've been busy and couldn't keep up, so you were less informed. And yet you felt fine mocking me about being behind (when I was far from it)? And fine about mocking me for taking so long to open your eyes to reality, because you were just too lazy be as informed as you claim you are?

+++++----BS METER ON OVERLOAD-----++++++

Quote:
I checked a day or two later in BBC, Reuters, and a couple other major sites, scanned the headlines, scanned the subheadlines, and didn't find anything anywhere. I DID look for it, in places where I would expect to find it, and I didn't.

So, I should start googling MAL4's posts for her?

Obvi, you need to learn to be better connected to REAL news sites, cause what you're looking at sucks. As the self-proclaimed queen of fact-gathering, you should try a little harder to be INFORMED. Not because you want to *WIN* some meaningless stupid internet battle with someone you know nothing about, but because you love to know the truth. Or so you say.

Do you not see the logic FAIL here? You are all about being informed, and you will lord it over people and dismiss everything they say, but oh... you were just too busy to find that headline so everyone should just leave you alone...

Wow. Signym is circling the drain. Seriously. No coming back from this.

Note that your ignorance did not stop you from making some extremely dickish, superior, dismissive statements. Here, try the following, copy and paste it for your future use. It might work better for you than your present uber-superior bitch mode:

"I have not had a chance to research both sides of this matter. I respect the views of those of you who have weighed in, but at this point I cannot agree or disagree. I need a chance to look into this on my own because I am a grown woman capable of searching the news on my own. Which I will do, rather than kvetching at you guys until you do it for my grumpy self-centered old ass."

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

I have had one suggest I should have shown more respect and gotten to know the lay of the land before I ventured so deep into voicing my opinion.

We have known's and we have unknowns. You know nothing about me or how long I have monitored the site before joining, or anything else about me. You don't know it but you are the one running blind here.

As for Sig. I'll stick with my impressions and forgo yours thanks. Mine have worked well for me so far. Now I would prefer to end the hostilities here. The balls in your court.

that suggestion was mine. It's not a hard rule, just a physicist's logic of how action a leads to reaction a and action b leads to result b. joining a new community you have options: 1. act like a dick. Result: be judged to be a dick. You can figure out the other options, right?

So now you say you have this monumental deep knowledge of RWED (or the other way you spell it because you are an ignorant noob) and yet you tell no one of your experience and wisdom and play to be a stupid noob. (You played it well. ) You expect that big fucking game to be acceptable because... ?

Dude, if you ever wonder why no one here likes you, even those like me who take your side on some issues, you need not look far for an explanation. You, by your own admission quoted above, joined this site under false pretenses.

You never once said - hey poster X, you don't know me but I've followed you for the past Y months/years... (how long did you lurk THG, or are you really just a sock?) you didn't do that THG. You were not forthright.

You, sir, are a liar.

Hence all the hate pointed at you. You really did earn it. Enjoy.

Youch! All this lib on lib disharmony and hatred is so upsetting.

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:15 AM

Quote:
....MAL4PREZ
that suggestion was mine. It's not a hard rule, just a physicist's logic of how action a leads to reaction a and action b leads to result b. joining a new community you have options: 1. act like a dick. Result: be judged to be a dick. You can figure out the other options, right?
So now you say you have this monumental deep knowledge of RWED (or the other way you spell it because you are an ignorant noob) and yet you tell no one of your experience and wisdom and play to be a stupid noob. (You played it well. ) You expect that big fucking game to be acceptable because... ?
Dude, if you ever wonder why no one here likes you, even those like me who take your side on some issues, you need not look far for an explanation. You, by your own admission quoted above, joined this site under false pretenses.
You never once said - hey poster X, you don't know me but I've followed you for the past Y months/years... (how long did you lurk THG, or are you really just a sock?) you didn't do that THG. You were not forthright.
You, sir, are a liar.
Hence all the hate pointed at you. You really did earn it. Enjoy.

No, that suggestion was not yours. It was wishimay. She said she noticed I jumped right in and most don’t. It doesn’t surprise me that you would take credit for it though. You do think a lot of yourself.

Ass for suggesting I said I have a monumental understanding of the RWDT, I said no such thing. Your anger clouds your judgment. It fogs things up. That’s very unhealthy. I see anger comes to you fast and I find that amusing. Wow such name calling in this post. It didn’t take much at all to pull you off your game. Better learn to keep your chin up.

I have been noticing cracks about me by you showing up a little too often to suit me. You claim I could not possible know the personalities here so quickly yet you have been implying you had figured me out for quite a while now. I saw this about you referenced by the other guy when I followed the link you have as your signature. I sent a few warning shots to get you to desist but to no avail. So here we are. Let’s see I’m a dick, and a noob. Whatever that is it can’t be good? You suggest I joined the club under false pretense. I’m not sure how you come to that conclusion but hey I’m a noob and a liar so Ok. As for lurking, I don’t think so. I just visited this and other sites as a guest and even spoke on chat occasionally. There is a lot of nice art and stories to go through.

Damn I looked back at my post to gauge your response and I have to ask, is everything all right? You seem a bit disheveled. To be truthful my biggest concern is that I didn’t know everybody hated me. I’m crushed. And not just time to get the cookies crushed but apple pie and ice cream crushed. Everybody, are you sure? Shit, what do I do now?

Help me MAL4PREZ only your wisdom can save me now!

1KIKI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:22 AM

Mal4? It works for you too. And I have to say, Signy has been FAR better about linking her information than you.

"I have not had a chance to research both sides of this matter. I respect the views of those of you who have weighed in, but at this point I cannot agree or disagree. I need a chance to look into this on my own because I am a grown woman capable of searching the news on my own. Which I will do, rather than kvetching at you guys until you do it for my grumpy self-centered old ass."

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Mal4? It works for you too. And I have to say, Signy has been FAR better about linking her information than you.

"I have not had a chance to research both sides of this matter. I respect the views of those of you who have weighed in, but at this point I cannot agree or disagree. I need a chance to look into this on my own because I am a grown woman capable of searching the news on my own. Which I will do, rather than kvetching at you guys until you do it for my grumpy self-centered old ass."

"(Reuters) - A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had an anti-aircraft missile of the type Washington says was used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and it could have originated in Russia.

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.

Khodakovsky blamed the Kiev authorities for provoking what may have been the missile strike that destroyed the doomed airliner, saying Kiev had deliberately launched air strikes in the area, knowing the missiles were in place".

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKBN0FS1V920140723

1KIKI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:41 AM

I've read several versions of the story. Other people said he was misquoted. HE said he was misquoted. He says a unit had BUKs, then (in your version, p3) he says he doesn't know for sure. It's a case of he said - he said. This is really just more blah blah blah - and very confused blah blah.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Mal4? It works for you too. And I have to say, Signy has been FAR better about linking her information than you.

lets play by sig's rules. You have to provide the info to back your claim. Go through this thread and count how many statements she made that we're actually linked to anything. Do the same for my posts. Go on, I'll wait.

Sig, criticize liberal causes all you want. Just use FACTS. Still, though I've asked several times you have not provided any thing but your gut feelings. I think back on page one you quoted an article, since then it's been nothing but you on your high horse, demanding that everyone prove you wrong - your words. Oh, but when we do you claim that you never really took a side. Except that you just admitted that you definitely took a side, one you decided on some time ago.

THG is right - you have just admitted your bias. You decided to argue against liberal causes. You have entered every thread lately with that bias, and that makes you blind. Like rappy, you don't get that I am not liberal. I don't choose a side in advance like you love birds do. I go with what I see coming out of the many various news sources. You obviously do not.

1. You pre-decided to argue against what you see as a liberal cause
2. You admit that you haven't had time to read the news
3. In this thread you placed yourself as an expert, dismissing statements right and left, though you operating from a place of prejudice and ignorance. By your own admission!

Notice that you still haven't processed the data I give you. You follow up with the personal fight but not the topic. Maybe because you have been proved so completely wrong and all you really want here is a win. Not to find truth, but to out argue all us inferior posters, especially your latest target - the liberals.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've read several versions of the story. Other people said he was misquoted. HE said he was misquoted. He says a unit had BUKs, then (in your version, p3) he says he doesn't know for sure. It's a case of he said - he said. This is really just more blah blah blah - and very confused blah blah.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

and this is a example of you refuting a piece of evidence with... What? Facts? Links?

Really am looking forward to the total you come up with as far as links provided by you and sig - that's right, you can combine yours - versus me.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:31 PM

THG - you are such a tangled mess I don't even know how to deal with you. Get your story straight. You've been here a month and a half, but you know all the posters because you've been around a lot longer. Right? That's what you said. So what were you? Lurking? Had a different account? Come clean man.

As for who gave you advice, it prob came from several posters. I know I wrote such a post to you, clearly mine wasn't the one you read. No matter - it's still good advice.

Yet again I will point out the irony that sig decides to take anti-liberal side of things at the same time that a belligerent liberal shows up with pre- existing knowledge of all our ways, and sig and the new guy proceed to dance the way sig and rap used to. And rap fades away. And sig becomes very rap like in her bias and attitude. I see her doing nothing to seek the truth in this thread, just a successful attempt to start and continue multiple fights.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've read several versions of the story. Other people said he was misquoted. HE said he was misquoted. He says a unit had BUKs, then (in your version, p3) he says he doesn't know for sure. It's a case of he said - he said. This is really just more blah blah blah - and very confused blah blah.

Who 1kiki, who says he was misquoted and it doesn't seem confused to me. I guess everything confuses you though.

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What brain?

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You stepped into that one!

Yeah, yeah I did.

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:57 PM

Quote:
….MAL4PREZ
THG - you are such a tangled mess I don't even know how to deal with you. Get your story straight. You've been here a month and a half, but you know all the posters because you've been around a lot longer. Right? That's what you said. So what were you? Lurking? Had a different account? Come clean man.

What I said was “we have known's and we have unknowns. You know nothing about me or how long I have monitored the site before joining, or anything else about me”. In my other post I answered with,” I just visited this and other sites as a guest and even spoke on chat occasionally. There is a lot of nice art and stories to go through”. I said this because you had before, and continued to make claims about me. Off handed remarks about my personality.

Also you are indicating guests to this site are little more than spies. It that a fair interpretation of what you are inferring? It is the complaint you submit about me.

Quote:
……MAL4PREZ
As for who gave you advice, it prob came from several posters. I know I wrote such a post to you, clearly mine wasn't the one you read. No matter - it's still good advice.

You admit to giving me advice when I joined. I don’t recall that but let’s say you did. In your case I see it is to establish your hierarchy here? I can sense in you a need to do that. Here is a quote from you pointed out by Miker at the other side of your signature link.

Quote:
….MAL4PREZ
"Again I can do nothing but point and laugh. I have not argued with "Miker" before tonight. On purpose. To flush you out".

Miker back at you.

“Yeah, you have to show all how you are so brilliant and can stalk your victim coming in for the kill with your super wit to expose our psychosis. After the setup of pretending to offer some new truth, you character assonate the one you have picked for that particular performance”.

Thanks for the link. So, I see you have been here before. I guess I am supposed to be your new victim. I first noticed you starting with me in this thread when you made a prediction that the separatists sent the black boxes back to Russia, and no one would be seeing them any time soon. I suggested the black boxes would not be of much help because they would just show things like altitude and such.

Your next post was to take a swipe at me using Sig in a way first suggested by Miker a while ago. Check it out.

Quote:
….Miker quoting you…
"Sig undergoes an extreme change in personality after I poke her/it about her years-old symbiosis with Rap".

You to Sig in this thread.
Wow. You've really undergone a personality shift since THGRRL showed up. Anyone else noticed that?

Look familiar, once again Sig go’s through a dramatic change. Hey Sig if you are reading this does this sound failure to you?

Quote:
….Miker speaking to you.
I see with you, it is self-praise your into. I love reading how you have my personality figured out. How you are so hip to me. So, you’re the group’s psychoanalyst.

I love this guy where did he go? Let’s check you out diagnosing some of us here shall we.

Quote:
….MAL4PREZ

Yet again I will point out the irony that sig decides to take anti-liberal side of things at the same time that a belligerent liberal shows up with pre- existing knowledge of all our ways, and sig and the new guy proceed to dance the way sig and rap used to. And rap fades away. And sig becomes very rap like in her bias and attitude. I see her doing nothing to seek the truth in this thread, just a successful attempt to start and continue multiple fights.

It’s you who claim to have everyone figured out. I have a feeling it is all old news too our fellow posters, but I don’t mind reminding them. Oh yeah, talk about all over the place, these next quotes come from the same post by you.

Quote:
....MAL4PREZ
THGRRI has been arguing the same ideas as me on this thread, but the way he tumbles is just like you and rap. Dickish, name-call

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:
….MAL4PREZ
THG - you are such a tangled mess I don't even know how to deal with you. Get your story straight. You've been here a month and a half, but you know all the posters because you've been around a lot longer. Right? That's what you said. So what were you? Lurking? Had a different account? Come clean man.
What I said was “we have known's and we have unknowns. You know nothing about me or how long I have monitored the site before joining, or anything else about me”. In my other post I answered with,” I just visited this and other sites as a guest and even spoke on chat occasionally.

So you were lurking? Dude, I didn't say that lurking is a bad thing. I have no problem with it. I'm just trying to figure out how you came blasting onto this board the way you did. Your entry to this site was different than almost any other noob I've met. Except a few who turned out to be socks...

If you were on chat, you must have had an account. So that was since June. I'm asking because I'm truly curious - how long before that did you lurk and get to know us? A month? A year?

Quote:
Also you are indicating guests to this site are little more than spies. It that a fair interpretation of what you are inferring? It is the complaint you submit about me.

I'm saying nothing of the kind about guests, or lurkers, or about new people in general. Most are very nice and interesting. You're a bull in a china shop.

Quote:
You admit to giving me advice when I joined. I don’t recall that but let’s say you did. In your case I see it is to establish your hierarchy here? I can sense in you a need to do that. Here is a quote from you pointed out by Miker at the other side of your signature link.

No hierarchy. I was in fact trying to be helpful, just in case you really are a nice guy who didn't understand why so many posters got so quickly annoyed with you.

Thanks for the summation with Miker. Your glee and misunderstanding provides further insight into your personality.

As for my take on sig, again you ignore the fact that I have been reading (and largely enjoying) her posts for NINE years. I have gotten to know her as much as that's possible on an anonymous web site. So what's up between her and I is beyond your fathoming.

Quote:
It’s you who claim to have everyone figured out. I have a feeling it is all old news too our fellow posters, but I don’t mind reminding them. Oh yeah, talk about all over the place, these next quotes come from the same post by you.

Nothing's figured out. The figuring is on-going. Posting my observations and seeing how you react is part of the process. ;)

Quote:
Gee wiz, such contradiction in the same post. How would you diagnose this one doc?

I have no interest in your diagnosis of me, you china shop breaking bull who's managed to annoy just about every one on this site in a brief little month and a half. I have no reason to think your judgement of anyone's personality is insightful.

And hey, at least it took me and sig nine years to come to blows! You work fast LOL!

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:08 PM

Definition of lurk (vi)

Bing Dictionary
lurk
[ lurk ]

1.move or wait furtively: to move about furtively, or wait in a concealed position or a shadowy corner, especially with the intention of doing something wrong

As for how long I had an account before posting, long enough. So the assumption that I just started posting has always been a bit off. I just let it fly.

As for Miker, he nailed you good. I just followed his lead and in what you posted in just a few of the posts in this thread showed him to be correct.

I am a nice guy. Just not a pussy.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
1.move or wait furtively: to move about furtively, or wait in a concealed position or a shadowy corner, especially with the intention of doing something wrong

Welcome to the internet age grasshopper! Words have new definitions and uses, which you might know if you took the time to learn the culture before you "let fly." Lurking is a common term, and common thing to do. It's not uncommon for a poster to say: "Oh yeah I lurked that thread. Didn't have much to add." No big.

Quote:
As for Miker, he nailed you good. I just followed his lead and in what you posted in just a few of the posts in this thread showed him to be correct.

OK, see it that way if it makes you feel good. It's clearly something you need. ;)

Quote:
I am a nice guy.

Yeah, you're charming and have a real talent for making friends LOL! And boy are you gleeful over seeing someone taken down, as you think. 100% sugar, no spice in you!

And enough with this tangent. I'm done with your tangled freaky mess.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

THGRRI

Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:58 PM

You are entitled to type any word you wish but not to change it's meaning, and with your superior wit surly you should be able to handle a grasshopper with a little more finesse.

My first post here I was greeted like a leper by two who post here, and like a person by wishimay. I posted this response.

If you see me as father time
Then I shall respond in kind
If you see me as the Reaper
Into your soul I shall go deeper

I got no problem in giving to you what you started giving to me many threads ago.

MAL4PREZ

Friday, July 25, 2014 7:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
You are entitled to type any word you wish but not to change it's meaning,

Fart dust enshrouded grandpa is clearly not aware of the way things change.

Dictionary.com:
twit·ter
[twit-er] Show IPA
verb (used without object)
1.to utter a succession of small, tremulous sounds, as a bird.
2.to talk lightly and rapidly, especially of trivial matters; chatter.
3.to titter; giggle.
4.to tremble with excitement or the like; be in a flutter.
5.Digital Technology , tweet ( def 4 ) .

Quote:
and with your superior wit surly you should be able to handle a grasshopper with a little more finesse.
Finesse is useless as applied to a bull in a china shop, an old man who's "nice" but he ain't no "pussy" LOL! Because pussies are horrible bad things and "nice" guys need to be clear about how they are not so low in the world as to be comparable to female genitalia. Cause that shit is just *RANCID*.

Right, THG?

Quote:
My first post here I was greeted like a leper by two who post here, and like a person by wishimay. I posted this response.
Every single poster here has had a first post. But only yours drew such a response. Why might that be?

A conspiracy? Did we all know you were coming? Did an alert go out, letting us know that we had to say mean things to this one particular anonymous noob?

Or might it have been something about the particulars of how you "let it fly" without a second's respect for the culture here?

Dude, I think you really did need that advice that me and other more politic posters offered you. Because you still don't get it. You reap what you sow grasshopper.

Continue to sow the same, or actually do the hard thing and learn.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

MAL4PREZ

Friday, July 25, 2014 7:23 AM

Jesus. Why are we still talking about this crap with THG? What's happening in Ukraine is of FAR more importance than THG's thuggishness or my "unreasonable" hostility. Has the Sig/Kiki combo actually tried to process the evidence posted yesterday and not yet followed up on, (because it proved them wrong), or are they busy finding a new prejudiced approach to blaming the west?

For 9 years I thought sig was well informed, expert even. I found her dry and cold but worth listening to, because she saw a new angle on things. Now she takes stances on issues she is ignorant about based on nothing but her prejudiced decision to go after the left rather than the right.

My image of sig is totally blown. I thought she'd fallen in my esteem already. Nothing compared to where she is after the admissions of today.

Chris went silent. What's up with that?

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

THGRRI

Friday, July 25, 2014 7:35 AM

What a rant, none of which makes any sense. Get a grip on yourself. Finesse means what the dictionary says it means and was used in it's proper context within my sentence. lurk means what the dictionary says it means which I pointed out to you.

I know you think this means I am old and out of touch but I believe it means you are illiterate and unbalanced due to that and the way you have responded to my attempt to enlighten you. Why don't you diagnose yourself? Try and find out what has you so on edge.

As for everybody hating me I know, I know but I am all out of pie and ice cream!

MAL4PREZ

Friday, July 25, 2014 8:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
What a rant, none of which makes any sense. Get a grip on yourself. Finesse means what the dictionary says it means

How old are you lil green one? I'm no spring chicken, but still I'm aware of the ever changing times, something that obviously escapes you.

But I'm also aware of my limitations as one of the older generation and I adjust my approach accordingly.

You? Not so much. At all. The noob THG that you are clings desperately to Oxfords' dictionary for square, classic definitions, just as he clings to every little non-supported belief that must not ever change even though times are changing fast...

Or not? Don't let me tell your full narrative for you, grasshopper. If you have anything real and honest to say about your goals and methods in life, share it now. Set me straight about me. Or have you not the courage to be honest?

FYI: If I sense that you are being honest, nothing you say will draw criticism. If you continue to manipulate, then it's fair game and I will not hesitate to be brutally crystal clear with my thoughts.

Other posters have not enjoyed this process, certainly they have not seen it so clearly stated.

Tangent: When and where did sig and her clone go? Hiding somewhere private? ;)

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

1KIKI

Friday, July 25, 2014 8:44 AM

Tangent: When and where did sig and her clone go? Hiding somewhere private? ;)

Has new information for discussion been posted? I didn't see any.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Friday, July 25, 2014 8:51 AM

Quote:
….MAL4PREZ
How old are you lil green one? I'm no spring chicken, but still I'm aware of the ever changing times, something that obviously escapes you.

I am as old as my gums and a little older than my teeth.

Quote:
MAL4PREZ
But I'm also aware of my limitations as one of the older generation and I adjust my approach accordingly.

Keep tweaking it doc, you haven’t quite got it right yet.

Quote:
…MALRPREZ
You? Not so much. At all. The noob THG that you are clings desperately to Oxfords' dictionary for square, classic definitions, just as he clings to every little non-supported belief that must not ever change even though times are changing fast...

Better to be accurate in what one posts than to offend unintentionally. That is something you learn as you mature. Not to worry, you may get there yet.

Quote:
….MAL4PREZ
Or not? Don't let me tell your full narrative for you, grasshopper. If you have anything real and honest to say about your goals and methods in life, share it now. Set me straight about me. Or have you not the courage to be honest?

Gee …

Quote:
….MAL4PREZ
FYI: If I sense that you are being honest, nothing you say will draw criticism. If you continue to manipulate, then it's fair game and I will not hesitate to be brutally crystal clear with my thoughts.

Double Gee….

Quote:
….MAL4PREZ
Other posters have not enjoyed this process, certainly they have not seen it so clearly stated.

Yes I can tell they are all very upset by the way they are posting those I hate you THGRRI posts. And may I say, I think it is wonderful how you have taken it upon yourself to speak for all here, bravo. I offer more perceptions about you from Miker.

Quote:
….Miker
“Offering some new insight into the discussion is not what you are about. I see with you, it is self-praise your into. Trying to be everyone's champion is. Coming to the rescue is. Nope, not impressed at all”.

You have to love this guy. Well, maybe not you.

THGRRI

Friday, July 25, 2014 9:08 AM

SIGNYM

Friday, July 25, 2014 10:12 AM

Quote:
You go and make a declaration and sit back and demand that people prove you wrong.

Well, first of all, what "declaration" did I post?
That the USA ordered the plane shot down?
Uh... no.
That Kiev did it?
Uh... no, not that, either.
That the USA is lying in this case?
NOPE, not that either!
That Russia didn't do it?
Well, EVERYONE knows that you can't prove a negative! That's like showing that Saddam didn't have WMD! So for sure, I didn't say that, either.

You can't "prove" my "declarations" wrong because I didn't make any. I asked questions, that's what I've done.

OMG!!! I ASKED QUESTIONS!!!
Not to be tolerated!!!

But, even if I HAD made declaratations and demanded that others "prove me wrong" ...well, isn't that the scientific method? Put forth a hyppothesis for everyone to pillory, if they can?

Quote:
You do no figuring out on your own, no proving of anything on your own, but still are incredibly superior and judgmental, especially if anyone DARES to do what you do - voicing an opinion without publishing a fully annotated supporting thesis. It's a fucking chat site sig!

Is it not anyone's *job* to prove you wrong. Yet in thread after thread you create that exact situation. And you know what, you're almost always a dick about it. Yes, I am being a dick back at this point, because you have been so thoroughly annoying I have no reason to try for a convivial relationship with you.

And I have none for you. Plus, I think I've already responded to this.

Yanno, MAL4, there is a way out, and that is to ASK QUESTIONS OF YOUR OWN.

Quote:
Here it is in a nutshell… SIGNYM… You just admitted to all you only look for ways to disprove what others are saying because you have an agenda and do not care about the truth.

I answered that later...

Quote:
THUGR, if you had read my first post asking for the information that MAL4 said was "all over" the news, you would have heard the the backstory: I overheard about it at work, I was away from a PC for some time (in a meeting), by the time I GOT to the internet a few hours later, the info that was "all over" the news was already gone. I checked a day or two later in BBC, Reuters, and a couple other major sites, scanned the headlines, scanned the subheadlines, and didn't find anything anywhere. I DID look for it, in places where I would expect to find it, and I didn't.
So, I should start googling MAL4's posts for her?
Really?
And MAL4, you should have remembered that yourself. But like a lot of things you say, you're kinda biased, so I'm not surprised.

And also...

Quote:
Just use FACTS. Still, though I've asked several times you have not provided any thing but your gut feelings. I think back on page one you quoted an article, since then it's been nothing but you on your high horse, demanding that everyone prove you wrong - your words.

Really? Quote me, please. Use facts.

MAL4, yes I'm cold. No, I have no warm fuzzies about me. Yes, I am a scientist. No, I'm not a liberal. I think the best ideas should survive. That's why I ask questions, and I think you should too.

So, here are some more questions. If you got any of them wrong, you really should ask yourself why.
-----------------------------

How many of you thought that Saddam had WMD?
Who among you thought that Assad used chemical weapons in Syria?
How many of you were surprised by 9-11?
Did any of you predict the meltdown of 2008?
Who thought that Russia invaded Georgia unprovoked?

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:37 PM

MAL4, as promised

U.S. discloses intelligence on downing of Malaysian jet

Quote:
The Obama administration, detailing what it called evidence of Russian complicity in the downing of a Malaysian airliner, on Tuesday released satellite images and other sensitive intelligence that officials say show Moscow had trained and equipped rebels in Ukraine responsible for the attack.

This is an incomplete statement, which I've already discussed with Geezer. Maybe if I heard the full statement in context, it would be more robust, but they failed to make clear (in this article, anyway) whether they meant that Russia is supplying and training the Ukrainian separatists with the BUK anti-aircraft missiles in question, or whether they're referring to other equipment. I know it seems a quibble, but considering how our various administrations... Democratic as well as Republican... have flat-out lied in the past, I would like to hear that point made clear.

Quote:
Senior U.S. intelligence officials cited sensors that traced the path of the missile

I'm sure this is sensitive information, but- how accurate are they? Other reports, some from Russia and some from internal whistleblowers, say that Ukraine had positioned BUK missiles right in that area as well. ONE source who claims inside CIA knowledge says that US satellite pictures show that it was Ukrainian forces who fired the missile.

Quote:
shrapnel markings on the downed aircraft

Which indicates that the plane was fired on, and didn't break apart because of mechanical failure, but we already knew that.

Quote:
voiceprint analysis of separatists claiming credit for the strike

As I asked Geezer already, in order to do a voiceprint, you need an exemplar for comparison. Do that have valid IDs on the exemplar voiceprints?

Quote:
and a flood of photos and other data from social-media sites.

Which indicate what, exactly? There was ONE video purporting to show BUK missiles being moved by rebel forces, on examination of the background billboards etc it showed KIEV moving BUK missiles into position.

Quote:
The officials also for the first time identified a sprawling Russian military installation near the city of Rostov as the main conduit of Russian support to separatists in Ukraine, describing it as a hub of training and weapons that has expanded dramatically over the past month. The officials said that tanks, rocket launchers and other arms have continued to flow into Ukraine even after the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which killed 298 civilians.

This is a conclusion without evidence. Perhaps there was more at the briefing.

Quote:
Analysts at the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies are continuing to examine information about the crash, but the officials said the intelligence assembled in the five days since the attack points overwhelmingly to Russian-backed separatists in territory they control in eastern Ukraine.

This wouldn't be the first time "overwhelming" data evaporated on close examination. We need to look back no further than Syria.

Quote:
The senior intelligence officials said they have ruled out the possibility that Ukrainian forces were responsible for the attack.“That is not a plausible scenario,” said one senior U.S. official, who noted that American intelligence agencies have confirmed that Ukraine had no antiaircraft missile system within range of the Malaysian flight at the time it was struck.

Which is contradicted by other statements from other parties, including one anonymous person who the reporter claims is a CIA whistleblower.

Quote:
It includes pictures of three sightings of the missile show it's direction of movement on July 17.

These are more convincing. Photos and videos, especially those that contain identifiable background, can be probative. However, a number of photos (or stills, perhaps) seem to be very anonymous. A billboard in one of the videos i

SIGNYM

Sunday, July 27, 2014 8:10 PM

VIDEO EVIDENCE AGAINST SEPARATISTS FABRICATED?

Quote:
12. A few hours after the crash, Kiev authorities presented a video in which the opposition admitted shooting down the plane. Experts who studied the video concluded that it was a fabrication:

“The tape’s second fragment consists of three pieces but was presented as a single audio recording. However, a spectral and time analysis has showed that the dialog was cut into pieces and then assembled. Short pauses in the tape are very indicative: the audio file has preserved time marks which show that the dialog was assembled from various episodes.” (Ibid.)

The encoding of the video file shows it was created on July 16, the day before the plane was shot down. This information remains to be confirmed, but if it is accurate, it would mean that the Ukrainian authorities shot the plane down and fabricated evidence to frame the opposition (Did Ukraine Fabricate Evidence to Frame Russia for MH17 Shoot Down?, How American Propaganda Works: “Guilt By Insinuation”)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-malaysian-airline-mh17-crash-sixteen-
central-issues-which-cannot-be-ignored/5393296

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