I have no problem with the M/R pairing as you know. As with any other non canon pairing it is the writing and characterisations that draw me in. Expanding the envelope and seeing things from different perspectives is a gift for a writer, just as reading something original and insightful is a joy for the reader. I like and enjoy your writing slumming and do not believe you need to explain yourself. This site has a wealth of pairings, canon and non-cannon. People do not remain static, either emotionally or physically, and it is the journey that makes the drama not the destination. Hope to have many more journeys reading your wonderful fanfic. Keep Flyin' - Ali D :~)
You can't take the sky from me

I just wanted to say that I support this post whole-heartedly. Your stories are well-written and well-reasoned. The fact that the logic that you follow and the pairings that you arrive at using that logic would never occur to me does not invalidate them.

The problem with any fan-fiction site is there are die-hard’s who are unwilling to compromise the vision they have of a verse, or a character. They forget, or refuse to acknowledge that any given character can mean something different to someone else.

We all bring our own belief systems, life experience and prejudices to bear on a given situation and interpret data through that screen. Thus a character can react to a situation in a fashion that seems completely out of character to one person, a true representation to another and only so-so to someone else.

The problem occurs when those die-hards refuse to acknowledge that there are many ways and viewpoints and refuse to live and let live. An important part of reading anything (or watching a movie or TV show) is an ability and a willingness to suspend belief.

I understand your frustration, and would like to commend you on your polite response to decidedly impolite posts.

I have to also add my two cents worth to what BEB said, if you don’t like it, don’t read it, but I would like to add a caveat to that, if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.

I think that any pairing featuring River in a relationship is gonna be an uphill fight at the best of times, slumming. Now, it's easier to have River with an OC you can create and shape to be someone River's age of a personality that's not an immediate clash...but I think that River would look at Mal and Jayne as targets for romantic feelings before any attempts with people her own age. Though really...how many young men would have the je ne said quoi to handle River's quirks?

;D

Still...as much as we are a community of Joss fanatics, we do have differences in opinion and that's all kinds of shiny. In my opinion, the pear-shaped part of the equation comes from people either devoting energy to slam someone for their personal preferences when they could have just as easily just left things as they were and went off to read something more their speed or they remain close-minded to any pairings that are not "canon." Till I see something from Joss himself saying that there's no way River would hook up with Mal (or Jayne...or Kaylee...or any other BDH), I am willing to go with the flow and see where other people want the current to take them. Who knows? The journey could expose oneself to something completely new and wonderful;D

BEB

You have an excellent point that fanfic is all about exploring options. I do hope that anyone writing fic feels free to explore whatever plot bunny takes their fancy. I hope I've never come across as saying M/R shouldn't be written! But I've got no problem explaining why I don't read it. That's feedback, and it's part of the whole posting for public consumption thing...

I tend to come down hard on M/R, because of what I've experienced of it. (I've never read yours!) The thing I hope you understand is that I'm taking about these kinds of plots: immediately after the movie, River seduces Mal with much sexual expertise and skill and Mal is swept away and claims her as his One True Love and off they go on in their new happy life together...

I've got no interest in that. Mal and River certainly have a meeting of minds and a special kind of closeness, but it needs a *lot* of work to develop it into a believeable romance. Can it be done? I'm sure it can. But I've yet to encounter a writer who does it. (I admit, though, I don't go looking. I've been pointed at a few but haven't gotten around to reading them. I'm too busy writing LOL!)

But let me give you this example: I find the whole idea of Mal/Jayne *absolutely* preposterous, and yet I read a fic, taking place five years in the future, in which both characters have gone through a bunch of stuff. Amazingly, I could see them as the characters I know - Mal and Jayne - believably changed by believable circumstances and *gasp* getting involved. Gawd!

If I can be convinced of that, I can be convinced of Mal/River LOL! But the writer has to earn it, like the Mal/Jayne writer earned it.

If you carry M/R off without going Mary Sue or changing Mal's character, if you address River's immaturity, and lack of social and sexual experience, if you take the time to grow her up (and keep in mind that Mal is growing older too...), if you can believably shift Mal's fatherly and protective attitude toward her until you find a place where these two meet - go you! Really! And if you take the time to do this, please know that none of this M/R criticism is aimed at you.

I, for one, find M/R much easier to stomach than J/R. At the first drop of Rayne, click goes the back button. M/R, though - that makes a teensy bit more sense, if only because there aren't such abysmal gaps in intelligence and age there, and Mal doesn't hate River's guts.

I'll strongly agree with you on the point that River still has a very long and full life ahead of her, that she's got a longer time than any of them to grow and change - and here's how I see it: She may still not be all there since the BDM, but who's to say the damage can't be mostly repaired? I've always thought that she still has an oddness to her, but if somebody special comes into her life, her healing process will hit full burn. Having said that, even though I find M/R easier to stomach, one of the many ways in which I identify with Mal is that he and I both have more important things than attachments on our minds. At the very least, I think he would struggle with it if not deny himself.

Write what you like - God knows there's a good-sized M/R fanbase that's likely to get growing. ;) I don't read much fanfic because I'm always afraid of getting caught in a Rayne-storm, but permaybehaps I'll drop by some of yours some time. Keep flyin'.

As fic authors, one can write what they want, pairing they want and so forth. Some won't read it, some will.

I, personally, have no interest in reading stories other than with cannon pairings, but that doesn't mean others won't read.

One thing in reading non-cannon pairings, which I used to do but don't bother with anymore because its too frustrating, is that I found the characterization to be so terrible (to make the author's preferred pairing work) that I couldn't get past it. But - some people just like to read their preferred pairing and don't care about how the characters are characterized to get them there. Nothing wrong with that. But not everyone feels the same.

In response to Platonist, I will say only this. What is wrong with being a traumatized 17-year-old is simply that people grow past being 17-year-olds of any sort, traumatized or otherwise. As for Mal's feelings on crew entanglements, I honestly believe such feelings could change in the course of his continued life on Serenity, as I don't imagine him living a solitary existence forever (Note his willingness to be open with Inara in "Heart of Gold). As for a fairy tale ending, I believe I am correct in saying that I have not crafted nor even mentioned a fairy tale ending for any one but Mal and Inara in my blog or my fiction. I simply called Mal/River a love story, which in my personal experience does not necessarily translate into a fairy tale. River has great validity as a human, with or without anyone we choose to pair her with in our fics. I don't remember any quote where Joss said Mal and Inara were perfect for each other, but then again, I certainly have not read everything ever written or said by the man. I would be elated to see his vision for all of them brought to life, but barring that, I'll have to make due with what my imagination says with regard to the characters, as will we all. I intend to continue to write, as I enjoy the intellectual exercise, and love these characters very much.

We are all open to and allowed different interpretations of the M/R relationship on Firefly, slumming. Some may not see it as romantic as you do though, but that doesn't mean you should stop writing.


But I do have some questions you may want to ask yourself. What is wrong with being a traumatized 17-year-old girl? Why does River need to grow into something that she may never be capable of living up to? Aren't we allowed to accept her as she is, as Mal does when he makes her crew at the end of the BDM.
And, she is crew, make no mistake on that. Mal DOES have a strict code on crew entanglements, especially for himself.

And why do you need a fairy tale ending for her? Does that somehow validate her credibility as a human? Is she only worthy when she has harbored the love of the Captain?

Joss created obstacles for all the characters. Nothing is ever going to be easy for any of them. Creating a fairytale cocoon for M/R just doesn't work for me in this verse. If it works for you, go ahead and write it.

By the way, don't give up on Mal and Inara. It was Joss, the man himself that said they were perfect for each other. Their ending my surprise all of us.

A most excellent rebuttal. You are always polite, even when you're disagreeing with folk. You couldn't have stated your position better.

Keep up the excellent work.


Rob O.

I was introduced to Mal/River by the beautiful work of Anna Sedai. I hadn't really considered it before, but her writing is so beautiful, she convinced me. Rayne, on the other hand, turns my stomach. We all have prejudicial flaws we must fight, but we're all human. And if we can ever learn to all play nicely in the same sandbox, the world will be a kinder, more tolerant place. Till then, blog away! And keep writing!