new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 5, 2026 22:21
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1KIKI

Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:15 AM (P)

new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/20/world/asia/coronavirus-china-sympto
ms.html
China Confirms New Coronavirus Spreads From Humans to Humans

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/21/china-coronavirus-human-to-human-trans
mission-confirmed.html
China confirms coronavirus can pass person-to-person as fourth death reported
The Geneva-based U.N. agency convened an emergency committee for Wednesday to assess whether the outbreak constitutes an international health emergency and what measures should be taken to manage it.
So far, the WHO has not recommended trade or travel restrictions, but a panel of independent experts could do so or make other recommendations to limit spread.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/20/british-tourist-feared-to-be-victim-of-d
eadly-new-chinese-coronavirus/
British tourist feared to be victim of deadly new Chinese coronavirus

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/01/wuhan-outbreak-triples-as-new-
coronavirus-found-to-spread-human-to-human/
Outbreak of new virus explodes in China; human-to-human spread confirmed
Researchers raced to identify the virus behind the outbreak, confirming quickly that the culprit is a never-before-seen coronavirus—a relative of the virus that caused the SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) outbreak in 2003. Like SARS, experts suspect that the new coronavirus leapt from animals at the market to humans, sparking the outbreak.
But until this weekend, there were reasons to be optimistic that the new outbreak could be easily managed. ... That has all changed. As the case tally shot up over the last few days, officials say that there is clear evidence that the virus is spreading from person to person, and at least 14 medical staff members contracted the virus.
“We expect the number of infected cases will increase over the Lunar New Year travel period, and we need to prevent the emergence of a super-spreader of the virus,” Zhong said. Millions are expected to travel during the holiday period.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-coronavirus-kills-third-person-spre
ads-to-more-cities-11579494221
Coronavirus Is Spreading Quickly Across China as Confirmed Cases Triple
One reason for the rapid increase in reported cases is that a diagnostic test for the virus is now available.
Health authorities in Wuhan, a densely populated city of 19 million people, said Monday that the number of patients infected with the new coronavirus jumped to 198, from 62 on Sunday. The statement said 35 of those cases were severe, while nine were critical.
The newly discovered coronavirus so far is significantly less deadly than SARS. However, it is in the same class of pathogens, and this outbreak is clearly larger than scientists and officials initially believed.

1KIKI

Wednesday, January 22, 2020 4:12 AM (P)

CDC: Chinese coronavirus outbreak has reached the U.S.
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-01-21/china-coronavirus-out
break-us

SIGNYM

Wednesday, January 22, 2020 5:07 AM (P)

Sometimes I feel like I'm patient zero in the USA. I can't believe what I have is just influenza B Victoria.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, January 22, 2020 7:21 AM (P)

I wouldn't worry about the corona virus.

But, what do I know. We're probably due for a mass extinction event or two.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Wednesday, January 22, 2020 10:19 AM (P)

I just kinda am interested in this stuff. It's been an interest since I was a small child, sitting on the floor with my mother's HUGE physiology book covering my entire lap, looking at the pictures.

1KIKI

Thursday, January 23, 2020 2:58 AM (P)

CNN today:

China shuts down public transit and flights in Wuhan as virus outbreak grows
• Life inside ground zero of deadly virus outbreak
The city government announced a series of new measures Tuesday to contain the outbreak -- efforts some critics say came too late -- the virus has already spread to a dozen provinces across the country. (I'd say it's far too late to stop the spread out of Wuhan.)
• Deadly virus sparks fears of possible pandemic
However, the World Health Organization (WHO) has not yet declared the virus a "public health emergency of international concern" ... The organization's emergency committee met Wednesday in Geneva, but decided more information was needed... It is expected to take up the matter again on Thursday. (If this is an actual emergency, the WHO is acting far too cautiously. There's kind of a decision process one can use, which is to decide a default response ahead of time in the absence of additional information. Their default response is 'do nothing', though I don't think it was actively decided - it's just inertia.)
• What to know about the mysterious virus
The Wuhan coronavirus fatality rate is (currently) lower than for SARS and MERS, but still comparable to the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, explains Neil Ferguson ... he highlights that novel viruses spread much faster through a population.

NYTimes today:

- China Closing Off City of 11 Million, Center of Deadly Outbreak
- As the virus spreads, Beijing is silencing and punishing those who veer from the official line.
- At least 17 people have died, and the World Health Organization is considering declaring a global emergency.

WaPo today:

Chinese city at the center of coronavirus outbreak to suspend outbound travel
• As families tell of pneumonia-like deaths in Wuhan, some wonder if China virus count is too low
• Graphic: Mapping the virus’s spread
What you need to know about the deadly coronavirus found in the U.S.

Business Insider

The Wuhan coronavirus has killed 17 people and infected more than 540. Here's everything we know about the outbreak.

1KIKI

Thursday, January 23, 2020 4:08 AM (P)

I thought that this article had the most technical and up-to-date information, with an abundance of links.

https://gizmodo.com/deadly-wuhan-virus-in-china-may-have-come-from-sna
kes-1841161392

Deadly Wuhan Virus in China May Have Come from Snakes, Scientists Say

As an outbreak of a newly discovered SARS-like virus threatens to spiral out of control in China, some scientists think they’ve uncovered its animal origins. Their new research suggests the virus is native to snakes.

The germ in question, dubbed 2019-nCoV for now, is a type of coronavirus. While most coronaviruses that sicken people cause little more than a common cold, they’re potentially very dangerous. These viruses also infect a wide variety of animals, and if an animal-borne coronavirus successfully jumps over to people, our immune systems may be less able to beat them effectively. That unfamiliarity can make them especially virulent, though not necessarily contagious. It’s a pattern that already happened with the related coronaviruses that cause SARS and MERS, which killed anywhere from 10 to 30 percent of their human victims during their initial outbreaks.

When the first cases of 2019 n-CoV began showing up last December in the Wuhan region of China, doctors immediately suspected that it was spread through animals. Many of the first victims had visited a local food market—since shut down—that frequently hosted all sorts of live animals. Since then, the number of new documented victims has erupted, with more than 400 cases overall as of January 21, according to the Chinese government, while at least 17 people have died. Even more worrying is that 2019-nCoV is infecting people who had never visited the market, confirming it’s capable of spreading from person to person like a typical flu.

The new study, published Wednesday in the Journal of Medical Virology, looks at the genetic code of 2019-nCoV, which was identified by scientists working for the Chinese government and shared with the global research community earlier this month.

The researchers, all in China, compared the genetic sequence of 2019-nCoV to other known species of coronavirus. Their initial analysis found that the virus is a mix between a coronavirus that originates in bats and another coronavirus whose host origin is unknown—a process called recombination. This recombination seems most apparent in the part of the virus’ RNA that lets it recognize a cell’s surface receptors. They then concluded that the virus’s most likely natural host is a snake, based on patterns of RNA that the virus shares with other snake-borne coronaviruses. Snakes, perhaps not incidentally, are commonly farmed and sold in China as food and alternative medicine remedies.

Viruses evolve to recognize and hijack their specific host’s cells and make more of themselves. That’s why a dog virus typically can’t make people sick and vice-versa. But sometimes, a virus’s existing genetic machinery can help it infect other animals. Other times, mutations or recombination can give a strain of virus a newfound ability to cross the species barrier.

The genetic shuffling seen in 2019-nCoV, the researchers wrote, “may contribute to cross-species transmission from snake to humans.”

According to Brandon Brown, a public health researcher and epidemiologist at the University of California Riverside, there are still many unsolved questions about 2019-nCoV and its potential for disaster.

SARS and MERS were hard-hitting, for instance, but neither mutated into a strain that was both virulent and incredibly contagious—a scenario that could have very well turned into a globe-spanning pandemic. Initially, 2019-nCoV appeared to be far milder than SARS or MERS, but the reported death toll has risen quickly in recent days. And although we know that 2019-nCoV can spread between people, we don’t know how contagious it is, nor its risk of mutating further.

Regardless, Brown told Gizmodo via email that he sees no reason to delay

1KIKI

Thursday, January 23, 2020 5:19 AM (P)

Just in general -

With the number of infected people in China exploding rapidly, it's obvious (to me) that they haven't all visited the live-animal market in Wuhan where the virus is thought to have been centered. Considering the market in question has been closed since January 1 2020 'for decontamination' ... yet cases continue to spike ... either the virus has a really, REALLY ridiculously long latent period (3 weeks), OR it's being spread outside of the market. Obviously (to me) the virus is fairly easily (explosively) spreading person-to-person, despite all the cautious statements about unknown contagiousness. CIDRAP reports Wuhan probably has 4000 symptomatic cases. http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/01/who-decision-ncov-e
mergency-delayed-cases-spike

It's also fairly obvious (to me) that both the number of cases and number of deaths are significantly under-reported. Information-gathering can't help but be behind the curve in a rapidly developing situation, even assuming authorities are being upfront with information.

More worrisome is that Chinese scientists are reporting that the virus is undergoing significant mutation as it spreads.

Looking backwards - there are still no anti-viral drugs to combat the previous corona-virus outbreaks SARS (first reported 2002) and MERS (first reported 2012). And as best I can tell, there are no vaccines to date after all this time, either.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/mers/about/prevention.html
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/7/pdfs/05-0219.pdf
So, if I use past experience with previous corona-virus outbreaks to predict the forward path of this corona-virus "2019-nCoV" outbreak, we have neither drugs nor vaccines to combat it, nor are we likely to have any in the future.

If I had to guess, I'd say this thing has been noodling around at a low level until the Chinese Lunar New Year brought people out in force doing their pre-holiday shopping. "And then it exploded."

But this kind of thing is predictable in the generic sense. Round about the time in 1995 when people found out there was a monkey-to-human air-transmissible Ebola virus outbreak in Reston Virginia (The Hot Zone), Garrett came out with a book showing how 1) increased intrusion of humans into animal-disease-space along with 2) increased international travel made pandemic disease a matter of when, not if (The Coming Plague).

We may not be there yet. But how many abortive starts do we need to get a clue? We need to be better prepared, and we need to be doing things differently than we are now. Because as far as I can tell, what we're doing is to just continue on like always, with fingers crossed.

1KIKI

Thursday, January 23, 2020 11:15 PM (P)

CNN today:
Coronavirus spreads more easily from person to person than previously thought, says WHO official
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-intl-hnk/h_274
8e6c7898fd744e47b47a135c75203

Ya' think, Sherlock?

1KIKI

Saturday, January 25, 2020 12:45 AM (P)

CNN today

Tens of millions under lockdown
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-hnk-intl-0
1-24-20/index.html

SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA - JANUARY 24: Disinfection workers wearing protective gears spray anti-septic solution in an train terminal amid rising public concerns over the spread of China's Wuhan Coronavirus at SRT train station on January 24, 2020 in Seoul, South Korea. The number of cases of a deadly new coronavirus rose to over 800 in mainland China as health officials stepped up efforts to contain the spread of the pneumonia-like disease which medicals experts confirmed can be passed from human to human. The number of those who have died from the virus in China climbed to twenty five on Wednesday and cases have been reported in other countries including the United States,Thailand, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. (Photo by Chung Sung-Jun/Getty Images)

Dozens of people are dead in China and more than 800 infected as the Wuhan virus continues to spread
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-hnk-intl-0
1-24-20/index.html

Video appears to show desperation of patients in Wuhan
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/01/24/china-wuhan-coronaviru
s-hospital-overcrowd-culver-nr-vpx.cnn

Wuhan to build hospital dedicated to virus outbreak in six days
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/24/china/wuhan-coronavirus-update-intl
-hnk/index.html

What is the coronavirus and is it worse than SARS?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/22/world/wuhan-coronavirus-visual-guid
e-intl/index.html

https://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/Wuhan-quarantine-expands-as
-Chinese-fear-14997682.php
A bigger outbreak is certain," said Guan Yi, a virologist who helped identify severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2003. He estimated - "conservatively," he said - that this outbreak could be 10 times bigger than the SARS epidemic because that virus was transmitted by only a few "super spreaders" in a more defined part of the country.

"We have passed through the 'golden period' for prevention and control," he told Caixin magazine from self-imposed quarantine after visiting Wuhan. "What's more, we've got the holiday traffic rush and a dereliction of duty from certain officials."

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced Thursday that health officials in Texas notified it about a potential case of coronavirus. CDC said in a statement that it is in communication with state health officials and will share more information as it becomes available.

Health officials in Brazos County, Texas - which is where Texas A&M University is located and is about 100 miles northwest of Houston - said they are investigating a patient who meets the definition of a potential case of the new virus. The patient contracted a respiratory illness within two weeks of traveling in Wuhan and is being isolated at home in accordance with recommendations from the CDC.

In Geneva, the World Health Organization cited Chinese efforts to prevent transmission and the limited number of cases recorded abroad as its reasons for not declaring Thursday that the outbreak was a public health emergency of international concern.

But WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said at a news conference that the decision "should not be taken as a sign that WHO does not think the outbreak is serious or that we're not taking it seriously. Nothing could be further from the truth."

He said the emergency committee was divided on whether the outbreak deserved the special designation, but said regardless, the outbreak amounts to "an emergency in China.""It has not yet become a global health emergency, but it may become one."

https://news.yahoo.com/virologist-helped-identify-sars-coronavirus-225
800266.html

Experts are seeing shocking similarities between the coronavirus that has now spread beyond China and the SARS outbreak of 2003.

Like the infectious pneum

1KIKI

Saturday, January 25, 2020 1:05 AM (P)

The virus has a lot of potential to be a pandemic, but what eventually will happen is pretty much up to its genetics and mutations. My opinion is that given the information so far - especially the virus's explosive spread far past its origin in mere weeks - officials shouldn't be waiting for proof of pandemic, they should be acting on the potential for one. Otherwise, we're just hoping for luck. I dunno. How lucky do we feel today, punk?

1KIKI

Saturday, January 25, 2020 11:33 PM (P)

CNN today

Hong Kong upgrades Wuhan virus outbreak to 'emergency' | Three cases confirmed in France | Four in Australia | Over 230 are in critical condition in China
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-hnk-intl-0
1-25-20/index.html
• WSJ: US to evacuate Americans out of China
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/25/politics/coronavirus-us-evacuate-am
ericans-china/index.html
• Wuhan medical workers tell of coronavirus challenges
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/25/china/wuhan-coronavirus-update-intl
-hnk/index.html
• Video appears to show desperation of patients in Wuhan
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/01/24/china-wuhan-coronavirus-ho
spital-overcrowd-culver-nr-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/around-the-world/
• A visual guide to the Wuhan coronavirus
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/22/world/wuhan-coronavirus-visual-guid
e-intl/index.html

A lot has changed since China's SARS outbreak 17 years ago. But some things haven't
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/24/asia/china-sars-coronavirus-intl-hn
k/index.html

1KIKI

Sunday, January 26, 2020 8:08 AM (P)

Comment: How bad? It all depends on the ease of infection.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/01/harvard-expert-calls-coro
navirus-outbreak-thermonuclear-pandemic-level-bad.html

Harvard expert calls coronavirus outbreak 'thermonuclear pandemic level bad'

An expert advisor to the World Health Organization (WHO) has described the coronavirus outbreak as potentially "thermonuclear pandemic level bad".

But research into the disease - which at present has no vaccine, and might not for months - has doctors worried. Some have estimated for every person that gets infected, they will infect up to four more.

https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://www.medrxiv.org/co
ntent/10.1101/2020.01.23.20018549v1.full.pdf
Novel coronavirus 2019-nCoV: early estimation of epidemiological parameters and
epidemic predictions
Jonathan M. Read1, Jessica R.E. Bridgen1, Derek A.T. Cummings2, Antonia Ho3, Chris P. Jewell1

Affiliations:
1. Centre for Health Informatics, Computing and Statistics, Lancaster Medical School,
Lancaster University, Lancaster, United Kingdom.
2. Department of Biology and Emerging Pathogens Institute, University of Florida,
Gainesville, United States of America.
3. Medical Research Council-University of Glasgow Centre for Virus Research, Glasgow,
United Kingdom.
Correspondence: jonathan.read@lancaster.ac.uk
Key findings
• We estimate the basic reproduction number of the infection (RR0) to be significantly greater than one. We estimate it to be between 3.6 and 4.0, indicating that 72-75% of transmissions must be prevented by control measures for infections to stop increasing.
• We estimate that only 5.1% (95%CI, 4.8–5.5) of infections in Wuhan are identified, indicating a large number of infections in the community, and also reflecting the difficulty in detecting cases of this new disease. Surveillance for this novel pathogen has been launched very quickly by public health authorities in China, allowing for rapid assessment of the speed of increase of cases in Wuhan and other areas.
• If no change in control or transmission happens, then we expect further outbreaks to occur in other Chinese cities, and that infections will continue to be exported to international destinations at an increasing rate. In 14 days’ time (4 February 2020), our model predicts the number of infected people in Wuhan to be greater than 190 thousand (prediction interval, 132,751 to 273,649). We predict the cities with the largest outbreaks elsewhere in China to be Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, Chongqing and Chengdu. We also predict that by 4 Feb 2020, the countries or special administrative regions at greatest risk of importing infections through air travel are Thailand, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and South Korea.
• Our model suggests that travel restrictions from and to Wuhan city are unlikely to be effective in halting transmission across China; with a 99% effective reduction in travel, the size of the epidemic outside of Wuhan may only be reduced by 24.9% on
4 February.
• There are important caveats to the reliability of our model predictions, based on the assumptions underpinning the model as well as the data used to fit the model. These should be considered when interpreting our findings.

Others have come to figures of 3.8, 3.3, and 2.6, all above the WHO's estimate of between 1.4 and 2.5.

It's also been discovered people can carry the virus without showing symptoms, doctors calling them "cryptic cases of walking pneumonia".

Only 5.1 percent of all cases in Wuhan have been identified, researchers in the UK estimate, with perhaps more than 11,000 infected by January 21.

The UK scientists said it's still "early days"

SIGNYM

Sunday, January 26, 2020 11:04 PM (P)

I'm knocked out by what is probably a well-known Influenza B Victoria bug. I can't imagine what would happen with something much more contagious. Even if it isn't more deadly, it has the capacity to infect a whole lot more people... by a factor of several thousand ... so even an "inconsequnetial" flu can cause a lot of death if it infects a lot of people.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

1KIKI

Sunday, January 26, 2020 11:39 PM (P)

A former co-worker now retiree just texted me the first case of 2019nCoV is here in SoCal in Santa Ana. Though it would have been funnier if it showed up in Corona.

I think 'm going to look like an idiot and start wearing a mask. And using hand sanitizer where I can find it, and asking the stores I frequent to set some out for general use.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, January 26, 2020 11:41 PM (P)

Meh... it will be fine.

If this were 20 years ago, you'd barely hear about it. But with the internet and cable news today I'm sure people are hearing about it 10 times a day at least.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Sunday, January 26, 2020 11:57 PM (P)

Out there you're probably well-isolated Jack, but here in SoCal there's A LOT of travel between China and this area! Here's a figure I pulled from wiki - keep in mind this is one route out of many:

Busiest international routes to and from LAX (2019)
Taipei–Taoyuan 857,257 passengers China Airlines, EVA Air
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_International_Airport

Back when, when I lived in NYS, I never ever got sick. It was such a backwater. Nothing new ever showed up. But when I moved here to SoCal, I got slammed at least once a year. And it's because there are so many international vectors in and out of here.

The other thing I know for a fact is that for every one case you see, there are many you don't. So, given my long history of asthma and poor lung function, I'd rather look weird - and be safe!

SIGNYM

Monday, January 27, 2020 12:31 AM (P)

Indeed. Have never been so sick as in LA. At my doctors office they have stations set up with hand sanitizer, masks, and antiviral laced tissues. Soon as I arrived I put on a mask and used the hand sanitizer. Dr asked me if I was trying not to get sick, I told her I was just trying not to get OTHER people sick! She smiled.

One good thing about masks is that they also keep you from touching your nose or mouth.

Hey, maybe it will be cured by a Corona beer! In Corona!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, January 27, 2020 12:36 AM (P)

I usually get pretty sick every year or two. Got hit pretty hard the last two years actually, but that's probably because I was working retail. Not only can't the people afford to stay home when they're sick and lose that pay, but you're talking thousands of potentially sick customers too. Plenty of flu going around every year. I've just probably missed it this year because I'm not working. *fingers crossed*

I'm not telling you not to protect yourself. Absolutely do whatever you feel is necessary, especially given your history. I just feel like maybe you're thinking too much about it is all. Don't let the Legacy Media do to you with this virus what it's done to everybody who's got TDS.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, January 27, 2020 12:58 AM (P)

I've heard some news reports, usually daily, about this.

Seems I recall a report of one dead. Something like 20 cases.
Then I heard, maybe next day, 9 dead.
Next figure I heard was 26 dead.
Next figure I heard was 50-some dead. And 800-some cases.

SIGNYM

Monday, January 27, 2020 1:11 AM (P)

I recall the swine flu that wasn't. SARS, tho deadly, apparently mutated to a less virulent form. But apparently the R-naught of this virus is extraordinarily high, which means that even if it's not a "killer" virus an awful lot of ppl will get sick and some of them will die.

I intend to wear a mask as well

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

1KIKI

Monday, January 27, 2020 2:31 AM (P)

I've been asking the stores where I go to please put out hand sanitizers where customers can use them, but I intend to keep one in the car as well. If I can find one that's 60% or more alcohol (either ethanol or IPA), even better!

A second case of coronavirus has just been confirmed in SoCal since this morning.

But for now, all we're going to hear about is Kobe Bryant.

1KIKI

Monday, January 27, 2020 7:55 AM (P)

Quote:
The New England Journal of Medicine
Another Decade, Another Coronavirus
The viral genome has been sequenced, and these results in conjunction with other reports show that it is 75 to 80% identical to the SARS-CoV and even more closely related to several bat coronaviruses.3 It can be propagated in the same cells that are useful for growing SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, but notably, 2019-nCoV grows better in primary human airway epithelial cells than in standard tissue-culture cells, unlike SARS-CoV or MERS-CoV.
Transmission of 2019-nCoV probably occurs by means of large droplets and contact (comment: making surgical masks and hand sanitizers appropriate) and less so by means of aerosols and fomites, on the basis of our experience with SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2001126

Quote:
South China Morning Post
5 million left Wuhan before lockdown, 1,000 new coronavirus cases expected in city
“From observations, the virus is capable of transmission even during incubation period,” Ma said, adding that the incubation period lasted from one to 14 days. “Some patients have normal temperatures and there are many milder cases. There are hidden carriers,” he said.
Ma said also that the virus had adapted to humans and appeared to have become more transmissible. “There are signs showing the virus is becoming more transmissible. These walking ‘contagious agents’ [hidden carriers] make controlling the outbreak a lot more difficult.”
Ma said that the epidemic was accelerating and “may last for some time”.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3047720/chinese-premie
r-li-keqiang-head-coronavirus-crisis-team-outbreak

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, January 27, 2020 8:38 AM (P)

Man... people online are going all Y2K about this. I've had to finally tell YouTube that I wasn't interested in any videos based off of that topic because they keep popping up in my recommended feed.

Meanwhile, nobody I know IRL has even brought it up.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, January 28, 2020 3:22 AM (P)

First Canadian Case also infects his wife. Bummer.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/more-coronavirus-cases-likely-canada-0900041
64.html

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, January 28, 2020 3:24 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I've been asking the stores where I go to please put out hand sanitizers where customers can use them, but I intend to keep one in the car as well. If I can find one that's 60% or more alcohol (either ethanol or IPA), even better!

A second case of coronavirus has just been confirmed in SoCal since this morning.

But for now, all we're going to hear about is Kobe Bryant.

Is rubbing alcohol just as good?

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, January 28, 2020 4:35 AM (P)

Cleaned my pliers with it before pulling out teeth and I'm still alive.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Tuesday, January 28, 2020 6:25 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I've been asking the stores where I go to please put out hand sanitizers where customers can use them, but I intend to keep one in the car as well. If I can find one that's 60% or more alcohol (either ethanol or IPA), even better!

A second case of coronavirus has just been confirmed in SoCal since this morning.

But for now, all we're going to hear about is Kobe Bryant.

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is rubbing alcohol just as good?

Yep, but don't try drinking it! BTW, rubbing alcohol is AKA isopropyl alcohol AKA IPA (not India pale ale!) aka isopropanol.

1KIKI

Tuesday, January 28, 2020 6:31 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Man... people online are going all Y2K about this. I've had to finally tell YouTube that I wasn't interested in any videos based off of that topic because they keep popping up in my recommended feed.

Meanwhile, nobody I know IRL has even brought it up.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Yanno, I've been trying to find disposable surgical masks here at pharmacies (even pharmacies associated with large stores like Walmart), medical supply places, and surgical supply places - and they've been out for over a week with restock dates mostly weeks away! Even Amazon is almost out of all brands. Nobody might be talking about it there, within your hearing - but here, they're buying a hell of a lot of masks! And hand sanitizers, which are also almost all out. (I found a few at Walgreens and stocked up, but none at Target where I went first.)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, January 28, 2020 6:32 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I've been asking the stores where I go to please put out hand sanitizers where customers can use them, but I intend to keep one in the car as well. If I can find one that's 60% or more alcohol (either ethanol or IPA), even better!

A second case of coronavirus has just been confirmed in SoCal since this morning.

But for now, all we're going to hear about is Kobe Bryant.
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is rubbing alcohol just as good?
Yep, but don't try drinking it! BTW, rubbing alcohol is AKA isopropyl alcohol AKA IPA (not India pale ale!) aka isopropanol.

Yes. This is VERY true.

I don't recall at this time if I know that because I had a moment of weakness right after I quit drinking and knew I had a bottle of it in the house, or if I was doing research to find out if it was safe to have it in my house because it WAS poison.

It was one of those two things. My brain was still a bit foggy there in the early days of sobriety.

(lol @ "not India pale ale!")

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Tuesday, January 28, 2020 6:34 AM (P)

Well - whichever it was, I'm glad you checked it out first and didn't have a 'what the hell' moment!

(lol @ "not India pale ale!") Yanno - there are so many shared acronyms that mean different things, depending on where you come from. Because I came from a medically-related background, to me GC was gonococcus, the bacteria that causes gonorrhea. And then I moved over to the chemistry side where GC was gas chromatography. And people said GC A LOT, because it was one of the instruments most commonly in use at the time. Needless to say, it was a couple of years before I stopped giggling inside every time I heard GC.

1KIKI

Wednesday, January 29, 2020 1:36 AM (P)

The actual news is more of the same - soaring infection numbers, more deaths, increased isolation measures in China (except for the wealthy who are freely flying out at the rates of hundreds of commercial flights a day), more countries affected, and then there's this from CNN: • There's been a run on surgical masks in US.

Yep - been there, done that. But here in SoCal stores ran out BEFORE this corona virus got any traction. And that's because LACounty declared a flu emergency over a week ago (11 days ago, specifically), with many cases and many deaths - due to influenza B/ Victoria strain. (Their concern was that the really high death rate is in people under 40.) Also been there, done that with influenza B/ Victoria, except for the dying part, of course. SOOOooooo over getting the flu or any contagion again this year!

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, January 29, 2020 6:14 AM (P)

Heard yesterday the Chinese added 1700 cases in one day, for a total of 4,500 cases.

In WI, they claim they have tested 100 folk, nobody positive yet. Group from UW-Platteville just got back from China, they are in quarantine as precaution.

Does anybody think it is contained within America? The cases which are here, we know which/where they are, and each is contained?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, January 29, 2020 6:15 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Cleaned my pliers with it before pulling out teeth and I'm still alive.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

You cleaned your pliers with coronavirus before pulling your teeth?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, January 29, 2020 6:18 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I've been asking the stores where I go to please put out hand sanitizers where customers can use them, but I intend to keep one in the car as well. If I can find one that's 60% or more alcohol (either ethanol or IPA), even better!

A second case of coronavirus has just been confirmed in SoCal since this morning.

But for now, all we're going to hear about is Kobe Bryant.
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is rubbing alcohol just as good?
Yep, but don't try drinking it! BTW, rubbing alcohol is AKA isopropyl alcohol AKA IPA (not India pale ale!) aka isopropanol.

I recall different concentrations of IPA were named different things, one being rubbing alcohol. From your response, seems like any one of the IPA concentrations should be good enough.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, January 29, 2020 6:45 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Cleaned my pliers with it before pulling out teeth and I'm still alive.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
You cleaned your pliers with coronavirus before pulling your teeth?

Yup.

Or you can go back and read it again if you want to know what I really did.

You may want to try your post right before the one you just quoted of mine.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Wednesday, January 29, 2020 6:54 AM (P)

Well - WAY back when, pretty far back in the previous century, they used to denature (poison) ethanol (drinking alcohol) with benzene in order to make rubbing alcohol for general use. Then they found out that benzene was a carcinogen. So they switched entirely to a different kind of alcohol - IPA/ isopropyl alcohol/ isopropanol - as rubbing alcohol instead of using 'denatured' ethanol. You may be thinking of the ethanol/ benzene mix when you think that different concentrations are called different things. A ethanol mixed with benzene would be a different 'concentration' of ethanol.

The differences between IPA and ethanol are, IPA is cheaper than ethanol because it's made from petroleum feedstocks in an industrial, high-volume, short-term process, as opposed to ethanol which is (usually) made from grains or other plant matter that are grown, fermented, filtered, and distilled. IPA is more toxic - you can't drink it in any quantity, whereas ethanol is only immediately toxic in large amounts. And IPA is a better degreaser, since it has more carbon-hydrogen bonds like a gasoline-type solvent. Chemically, IPA is three carbons with an alcohol group (-OH) stuck on the middle carbon in the place of hydrogen (-H), whereas ethanol is 2 carbons with an alcohol group (-OH) stuck on the end in the place of hydrogen (-H). Either one can be used as a rubbing alcohol, and they're both alcohols in any concentration, though they are of course different alcohols. I hope that clears up any residual confusion over what is what.

As for concentrations, either ethanol or IPA are good as sanitizers, but they should be >60% alcohol, and one should use enough that your hands stay wet for about a minute. Walgreens has hand sanitizers that are 70% ethanol, and the balance is glycerine (a completely edible non-toxic thickener) which keeps the ethanol from evaporating off in a flash. There's also a small amount of aloe vera (plant) extract and vitamin E.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, January 30, 2020 4:07 AM (P)

Last night heard that the confirmed cases (from China) were over 6,000.

Back when the official count was under 3,000 some whistleblower nurse in China revealed there were actually over 90,000 cases.

I hear this has a 5% fatality rate - which seems fairly low.

Population of China is apparently 1.4 Billion. Practically a petri dish for an epidemic.

Does anybody outside China think they have a grip on it? Will every person in China eventually get exposed to it? Will this take out 1/20th of China's population.

Cool that a flight of 200 Americans got out, refueled in Anchorage, on to Ontario (California, in northern LA County), but then redirected to Marsh AFB, also in CA. But there are many Americans stranded in China who didn't make the flight, and are now quarantined.

I heard 5 confirmed cases in USA. Will there be a breakout? also a suspected case landing at Logan direct from China.

I looked for some countdown page for the number of cases or patients, but didn't find one.

I had found a site which seemed to be close to monitoring the count,but now I can't find it.

1KIKI

Thursday, January 30, 2020 4:47 AM (P)

How many cases, how many deaths ... either past, current or future ... those are very good questions! In this instance, data-gathering is inevitably FAR behind the facts. And there are arguments to project estimates in either direction. Looking at death rates for example: There's a good argument to be made that many, many cases of 2019-nCov are undiagnosed. And that these are people with mild cases of the virus, who go on to an unremarkable recovery, who will never be counted as survivors. But if they had been counted, they would have lowered the actual death rate considerably. Meanwhile, since they are uncounted, the official, apparent death rate would be too high. There's also a case to be made that many people are dying of the virus, through pneumonia, heart attack, asthma etc, or who went back to their villages where they passed away, who will never be counted as victims (either intentionally, or by lack of resources, or both). And of course while the actual death rate would be higher, the official, apparent death rate would be too low.

Ultimately, long after the fact, the number could be estimated by population-wide statistical 'excess deaths', if there are enough to move the overall death rate enough beyond chance probabilities.

And btw, if you had the answers and could convince people of your data and logic, you'd become famous, maybe even rich!

My personal opinion is that I see no reason why this won't eventually spread globally. For every confirmed case, I think they're at least 5 undiagosed. Those people are infectious, and can go around quietly infecting other people, who infect other people, and so on.

The worst-case estimates are that quarantine measures have to be roughly 75% complete to stop the spread (given higher infectivity numbers). I'm not seeing that in China. Globally, I think given what my estimates are for undiagnosed cases wandering around, I don't see really good control anywhere else, either.

So the start may be small-scale in other countries, but unless either the virus changes, or control measures are adequate, I don't see anything other than a spread of the virus.

But, we'll see.

As for myself, since I'm STILL hacking my brains out and wheezing away 3 weeks after getting a mere flu, I'm definitely going to be using hand-sanitizer and wearing a mask in public. It might be overkill, but I really don't want to catch anything else this year.

1KIKI

Thursday, January 30, 2020 5:51 AM (P)

Here's a sampling of the news:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/health/china-coronavirus-outbreak.h
tml
As Coronavirus Explodes in China, Countries Struggle to Control Its Spread

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-symptoms-do-face-masks-really
-protect-against-coronavirus-flu-spread-how-top-prevent/
Do face masks really protect against coronavirus?
(The Mayo Clinic reports that wearing a mask can help prevent getting the flu. While this ISN'T the flu, wearing a mask might also help. My opinion is, you have no idea how MANY times a day you scratch your nose or rub your eyes! If nothing else, wearing a mask will prevent or make you more aware of those behaviors.)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/01/29/coronavirus-wuha
n-china-outbreak-united-states-cdc-prepared-vaccine/4599870002/
US learned from Ebola but is 'nowhere near as prepared' as needed if coronavirus outbreak happened here

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/coronavirus-latest-updates.html
Coronavirus live updates: Outbreak is ‘grave concern’ as infections spread beyond China

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/health-experts-human-to-human-spr
ead-of-new-virus-worrying/ar-BBZq4be
Health experts: Human-to-human spread of new virus worrying

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:59 PM (P)

I'm uncertain of the smartness of getting citizens out of China and back home....? Isn't that how it would spread? How do we know if they are carriers or not? I wouldn't be as concerned if we had a vaccine - and it does not seem to be as fatal (thank all the godz), but still... are they screened first by US Drs before boarding and how effective is the screening? Curiouser and curiouser.

Pandemic series no#1 on Netflix

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, January 30, 2020 8:04 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
I'm uncertain of the smartness of getting citizens out of China and back home....? Isn't that how it would spread? How do we know if they are carriers or not? I wouldn't be as concerned if we had a vaccine - and it does not seem to be as fatal (thank all the godz), but still... are they screened first by US Drs before boarding and how effective is the screening? Curiouser and curiouser.

Pandemic series no#1 on Netflix

I still want to note that I'm not at all worried about this thing and I think that people are taking this way to seriously.

That being said though, I agree with the Captain here. I was talking to my grandma on the phone yesterday and she had the news on mute and told me about them getting Americans out of China and I said "why the fuck are they doing that?"

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Friday, January 31, 2020 3:39 AM (P)

WHO declares coronavirus a global health emergency
Wuhan coronavirus cases top 8,000 as countries step up evacuation efforts
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-01-30-20-i
ntl-hnk/index.html

First US person-to-person transmission confirmed
First case of person-to-person transmission of Wuhan virus in the US confirmed
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/30/health/coronavirus-illinois-person-
to-person-cdc/index.html

Ok - I'm not saying it's time to jam the exit doors just yet. But I've been right so far, calling it 'explosively' human-to-human-transmissible before it was thought to be, saying that this was far bigger than being reported, that there was smouldering transmission going on, and saying that the WHO was doing too little, too late because the time to stop a pandemic is before it starts.

Epidemics/ pandemics are like wildland fires. They both start out small. In epidemics/ pandemics, it starts with only one person, called the index case.

In China, obviously it's out of control. When it comes to the rest of the world, the good thing about the WHO's declaration is that it releases funds and sets programs and people in motion. There may still be time to stamp this out.

Here's an interesting graphic:

Oh, this is some gossip I've been reading. There's supposedly a BSL4 facility (the level of facility that can handle deadly outbreaks for which there is no medicine or vaccine, like Ebola) within 20 miles of Wuhan, and one of the leading Chinese researchers temporarily working at a Canadian BSL4 facility (uncertain if it was the husband, or wife, or both) stole coronavirus (among other pathogens) from there on jawn's way back to China and its newly constructed lab.

Meanwhile, another deadly virus has infected 15 million in the US
A deadly virus is spreading from state to state and has infected 15 million Americans so far. It's influenza
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/30/health/flu-deadly-virus-15-million-
infected-trnd/index.html
Even the low-end estimate of deaths each year is startling, Savoy said: The Centers for Disease Control predicts at least 12,000 people will die from the flu in the US every year. In the 2017-2018 flu season, as many as 61,000 people died, and 45 million were sickened.
In the 2019-2020 season so far, 15 million people in the US have gotten the flu and 8,200 people have died from it, including at least 54 children. Flu activity has been elevated for 11 weeks straight, the CDC reported, and will likely continue for the next several weeks.

As I posted earlier, the LACounty health department declared a flu medical emergency a couple of weeks ago because of excess deaths from the flu in the under-40 population.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, January 31, 2020 5:28 AM (P)

Maybe I'll wait another month or two before I go rushing off to get a shitty part time job where nobody can afford to call in sick with unpaid time off.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, January 31, 2020 5:39 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
I'm uncertain of the smartness of getting citizens out of China and back home....? Isn't that how it would spread? How do we know if they are carriers or not? I wouldn't be as concerned if we had a vaccine - and it does not seem to be as fatal (thank all the godz), but still... are they screened first by US Drs before boarding and how effective is the screening? Curiouser and curiouser.

Pandemic series no#1 on Netflix
I still want to note that I'm not at all worried about this thing and I think that people are taking this way to seriously.

That being said though, I agree with the Captain here. I was talking to my grandma on the phone yesterday and she had the news on mute and told me about them getting Americans out of China and I said "why the fuck are they doing that?"

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Are you not thinking today?

If one is infected on the plane, they are all 200 risking getting it during the flight. Enclosed/confined space.
Once they get here, they are screened several times, and also quarantined for days or weeks if needed - and all would be willing to do so versus the alternative of staying in China.
These are all American citizens, mostly dependants of U.S. Diplomats - so we are lookng out for those who are doing our work for us.

If they are proven to be uninfected now, why would you declare they must be left where they will likely contract the fatal infection?
If one or more are infected at this point, it's not going to get from California to Indiana while they are in quarantine, so what is the problem?

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, January 31, 2020 5:43 AM (P)

lol

Ok. We'll see if none of them are infected.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Friday, January 31, 2020 5:44 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Maybe I'll wait another month or two before I go rushing off to get a shitty part time job where nobody can afford to call in sick with unpaid time off.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Oh, I'm just quoting you to be clear who I'm responding to.

I dunno - how much do you trust the government to keep us informed if things get iffy? Because in a month or two we should know how things are going ... but that's assuming of course we're being told the truth.

1KIKI

Friday, January 31, 2020 5:47 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If one is infected on the plane, they are all 200 risking getting it during the flight. Enclosed/confined space.
Once they get here, they are screened several times, and also quarantined for days or weeks if needed - and all would be willing to do so versus the alternative of staying in China.
These are all American citizens, mostly dependants of U.S. Diplomats - so we are lookng out for those who are doing our work for us.

If they are proven to be uninfected now, why would you declare they must be left where they will likely contract the fatal infection?
If one or more are infected at this point, it's not going to get from California to Indiana while they are in quarantine, so what is the problem?

I don't know about anywhere else or anyone else, but the plane scheduled for Ontario California was diverted to March AFB (Air Force base) where people will be housed and monitored for ... I think it's 2 weeks. One person is reported to have been caught after trying to sneak off the base.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, January 31, 2020 5:52 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Maybe I'll wait another month or two before I go rushing off to get a shitty part time job where nobody can afford to call in sick with unpaid time off.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Oh, I'm just quoting you to be clear who I'm responding to.

Nobody in particular I guess.

Quote:
I dunno - how much do you trust the government to keep us informed if things get iffy?

Zero.

Quote:
Because in a month or two we should know how things are going ... but that's assuming of course we're being told the truth.

It's going to be a lot harder to hide it if it does spread here. They might be able to pull that shit in China, but if they wanted to silence people here they'd have to lock down Social Media, and there's no way they're getting away with that without sending out a big 'ole red flag.

Like I said before... I'm not at all worried about this and I think it's being blown way out of proportion like everything else always does.

In the mean time, no sense in rushing to get a job working at a place where you're most likely to contract something since people will go to work sick. I'm not hurting for money, and my tax return is about 7 weeks of unemployment more than I had planned on it being, so maybe I'll just sit this one out and keep working on my house for now. I've got enough materials now to keep me busy until April.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Friday, January 31, 2020 6:18 AM (P)

Sounds like a reasonable plan to me! If nothing else, maybe you'll avoid the actual nasty flu going around this year. Having a year off from getting the flu. Wouldn't THAT be nice!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, January 31, 2020 8:39 AM (P)

Yup.

But the most ridiculous thing about this winter is that it's the first in three that I haven't worked and it would have been the nicest for driving. The last two winters were terrible for driving to work and now that I've only filled my gas tank 3 times in the last 6 months there's no snow at all.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Saturday, February 1, 2020 1:00 AM (P)

Yanno ... more cases around the globe, more human-to-human transmission not in the China, more deaths ... yadda yadda yadda ...

SIGNYM

Saturday, February 1, 2020 1:14 AM (P)

I watched most of a 26-minute video of a "citizen journalist" who made his way into Wuhan. It was a nonstop bitchfest, and like SECONDRATE, some of his gripes contradicted some of his other gripes.

So, for example, he says that many hospitals in Wuhan are not full. This, he says, is the result of public transportation being shut down, with only four taxis per district (10,000 people) being available. People don't have the transportation to get to the hospital.

Halfway thru the video, he describes a scene where people are lined up in corridors getting oxygen, that people are on IV drips in their cars in the hospital parking lot or in the hospital courtyard outdoors. How does that square with people not having transportation to hospital, and hospitals being relatively empty?

He mentions that the government is building hospital(s?) as fast as it can, with negative pressure zones and air exhaust and sewage disinfection. Of course, he uses that as a bitchfest too, wondering how many workers will be killed on the job. But IF TRUE, then China sees this flu as a true emergency.

One thing he did mention many times is that there are only a limited number of test kits... in his estimation, each hospital is getting only 100 kits per day, and that the hospitals are EXTREMELY reluctant to test people if they don't believe that the patient is seriously sick with flu.

IF TRUE, that does a couple of things ... it reduces the total number of diagnosed patients. At the same time, it drastically increases the measured death rate, since asymptomatic/ mildly symptomatic people would never be tested positive. The only way to get a true death rate is near-universal testing of at least one sub-population.

I'll see if I can find that video link, but the two things I would really like to follow up on would be the availability of test kits and whether or not the Chinese government is really building hospitals in response to this outbreak.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

1KIKI

Saturday, February 1, 2020 1:25 AM (P)

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/they-all-knew-chinese-furious-v
irus-fighting-officials-who-lied-about-human

This article is based on a NEJM paper as a starting point, that said that person-to-person transmission was occurring as early as mid-December 2019, in Wuhan.

I'm going to go out on a limb with an opinion that will never, ever, be able to be tested out with facts. This has the makings of an OOPS at the Chinese BSL4 lab near Wuhan. It looks like the Chinese had a viral escape, and tried to cover up the problem by being really quiet, and hoping it might go away. That would be like how the US treated the air-transmissible Ebola at Reston Virginia, except the US probably got lucky because, afaik, there was no human-to-human Ebola spread.

Reading all the articles I have read, I would 1) not trust ANY data out of China officialdom; and 2) only put qualified trust in data from other countries' officialdom.

1KIKI

Saturday, February 1, 2020 1:30 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
...but the two things I would really like to follow up on would be the availability of test kits and whether or not the Chinese government is really building hospitals in response to this outbreak.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

AFAIK they really are building an instant hospital. "I've seen pictures." I am snickering just a bit with that, but it's all I have to go on. I don't know how we can get reliable information out of China right now.

It sure would be nice to have an intrepid and independent press right now, instead of stenographers who meekly mouth officialdom's pronouncements!

SIGNYM

Saturday, February 1, 2020 1:52 AM (P)

China has in the past built "instant" structures ... hospitals, apartment complexes, skyscrapers, bridges etc. They're fully capable of that. If they're really doing it, then they either perceive a real epidemic problem, or a real political one (in which the local government ... which everyone knows are more corrupt than the national one ... sat on a secret and hoped it would go away, leaving the national government to contain the political fallout.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

1KIKI

Saturday, February 1, 2020 1:58 AM (P)

Hmmm ... well, idt China would build an instant hospital to politically rescue a local government. And if the virus was no real threat, there would be no need to build an instant hospital to rescue the national government. This would all fizzle out on its own. I think it means this is an actual, serious threat.

What occurred to me btw is to compare the coronavirus stocks at the Canadian BSL4 facility with 2019-nCoV. It would be interesting, at least.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, February 1, 2020 1:59 AM (P)

At least an "instant" hospital wouldn't have staph. At least not instantly.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Saturday, February 1, 2020 2:01 AM (P)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooohh!

Nice!

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, February 1, 2020 3:08 AM (P)

This thread wa started on the evening of 20 Jan 2020.

I recall the news had already been out and updated a few times by that time.

From the stories in the OP, it seems the Sunday before was also referenced.

What is the date that they are considering Day One for their charts and graphs, and how do they define Day One? The first Fatality? The first known case in Human?

1KIKI

Saturday, February 1, 2020 5:11 AM (P)

Well, the 'day 0' keeps getting pushed back further and further as more information comes out. So I don't know what date they picked for the graph at the time they created it. I also don't think the number of deaths is reliable, no matter what the start date. I believe they're underestimated. The OTHER thing they don't include is number of infections! (and those numbers wouldn't be reliable, anyway, either).

I think the more troubling information on the chart is the trajectory.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, February 1, 2020 7:00 AM (P)

I wouldn't believe Day 0 if it started here and we were told what it was.

Just forget about getting a real Day 0 out of China. It ain't going to happen.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Saturday, February 1, 2020 7:21 AM (P)

In addition, other recent studies have linked the 2019-nCoV to SARS CoV. We therefore compared the spike glycoprotein sequences of the 2019-nCoV to that of the SARS CoV (NCBI Accession number: AY390556.1). On careful examination of the sequence alignment we found that the 2019- nCoV spike glycoprotein contains 4 insertions [Fig.2]. To further investigate if these inserts are present in any other corona virus, we performed a multiple sequence alignment of the spike glycoprotein amino acid sequences of all available coronaviruses (n=55) [refer Table S.File1] in NCBI refseq (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov) this includes one sequence of 2019-nCoV[Fig.S1]. We found that these 4 insertions [inserts 1, 2, 3 and 4] are unique to 2019-nCoV and are not present in other coronaviruses analyzed. Another group from China had documented three insertions comparing fewer spike glycoprotein sequences of coronaviruses . Another group from China had documented three insertions comparing fewer spike glycoprotein sequences of coronaviruses (Zhou et al., 2020).

We then translated the aligned genome and found that these inserts are present in all Wuhan 2019-nCoV viruses except the 2019-nCoV virus of Bat as a host [Fig.S4]. Intrigued by the 4 highly conserved inserts unique to 2019-nCoV we wanted to understand their origin. For this purpose, we used the 2019-nCoV local alignment with each insert as query against all virus genomes and considered hits with 100% sequence coverage. Surprisingly, each of the four inserts aligned with short segments of the Human immunodeficiency Virus-1 (HIV-1) proteins. The amino acid positions of the inserts in 2019-nCoV and the corresponding residues in HIV-1 gp120 and HIV-1 Gag are shown in Table 1.

The first 3 inserts (insert 1,2 and 3) aligned to short segments of amino acid residues in HIV-1 gp120. The insert 4 aligned to HIV-1 Gag. The insert 1 (6 amino acid residues) and insert 2 (6 amino acid residues) in the spike glycoprotein of 2019-nCoV are 100% identical to the residues mapped to HIV-1 gp120. The insert 3 (12 amino acid residues) in 2019- nCoV maps to HIV-1 gp120 with gaps [see Table 1]. The insert 4 (8 amino acid residues) maps to HIV-1 Gag with gaps.
MORE AT https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/coronavirus-contains-hiv-insert
ions-stoking-fears-over-artificially-created-bioweapon

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

1KIKI

Saturday, February 1, 2020 7:38 AM (P)

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/coronavirus-contains-hiv-insert
ions-stoking-fears-over-artificially-created-bioweapon

Now, a respected epidemiologist who recently caught flack for claiming in a twitter threat that the virus appeared to be much more contagious than initially believed is pointing out irregularities in the virus's genome that suggests it might have been genetically engineered for the purposes of a weapon, and not just any weapon but the deadliest one of all.

In "Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag", Indian researchers are baffled by segments of the virus's RNA that have no relation to other coronaviruses like SARS, and instead appear to be closer to HIV. The virus even responds to treatment by HIV medications.

We then translated the aligned genome and found that these inserts are present in all Wuhan 2019-nCoV viruses except the 2019-nCoV virus of Bat as a host. ... Surprisingly, each of the four inserts aligned with short segments of the Human immunodeficiency Virus-1 (HIV-1) proteins.

The insert 1 (6 amino acid residues) and insert 2 (6 amino acid residues) in the spike glycoprotein of 2019-nCoV are 100% identical to the residues mapped to HIV-1 gp120. The insert 3 (12 amino acid residues) in 2019- nCoV maps to HIV-1 gp120 with gaps [see Table 1]. The insert 4 (8 amino acid residues) maps to HIV-1 Gag with gaps.

To our surprise, these sequence insertions were not only absent in S protein of SARS but were also not observed in any other member of the Coronaviridae family (Supplementary figure). This is startling as it is quite unlikely for a virus to have acquired such unique insertions naturally in a short duration of time.

A good recap of the findings was provided by Dr. Feigl-Ding, who started his explanatory thread by pointing out that the transmission rate outside China has surpassed the rate inside China.

A graph is worth a thousand letters. #coronavirus. Source: NYTimes https://t.co/M1K9e6Kgz6 pic.twitter.com/evgM2UHf3U
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020

2) Whoa- the rate of increase ***outside of China*** is steeper than inside of China or Wuhan! Figure 1A. From: @TheLancet “Nowcasting and forecasting the potential domestic and international spread of 2019-nCoV https://t.co/SwhxWGeoTj”) pic.twitter.com/u1s4SLEzMv

3) “An estimated 75815 individuals have been infected in Wuhan” —> this is substantially higher than current reports or ~10k reports by China ???? media. (75k estimate from above Lancet article)
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020

4) ...”On the present trajectory, 2019-nCoV could be about to become a global epidemic in the absence of mitigation...substantial, even draconian measures that limit population mobility should be seriously and immediately considered in affected areas...” ??

...

9. BOTTOMLINE: 1) Seafood market not the source. 2) This RNA #coronavirus mutates really fast. 3) ?? has unusual middle segment never seen before in any coronavirus. 4) Not from recent mixing. 5) That mystery middle segment encodes protein responsible for entry into host cells.

— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020

It may be time to jam the exit doors. Not talking about tooth self-extraction, but hunkering down might be a good idea.

1KIKI

Saturday, February 1, 2020 8:09 AM (P)

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)302
60-9/fulltext

Interpretation
Given that 2019-nCoV is no longer contained within Wuhan, other major Chinese cities are probably sustaining localised outbreaks. Large cities overseas with close transport links to China could also become outbreak epicentres, unless substantial public health interventions at both the population and personal levels are implemented immediately. Independent self-sustaining outbreaks in major cities globally could become inevitable because of substantial exportation of presymptomatic cases and in the absence of large-scale public health interventions. Preparedness plans and mitigation interventions should be readied for quick deployment globally.

SIGNYM

Saturday, February 1, 2020 8:31 AM (P)

As I read the paper, the "function" of those snippets of genome is "host recognition and binding". In other words, they would make the virus much more infectious (is that the correct word?) i.e. able to grab onto the human host cell more efficiently than a regular corona virus.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

SIGNYM

Saturday, February 1, 2020 8:56 AM (P)

If that's the case, then that might explain the unusually high R-naught that some people seem to be estimating.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

1KIKI

Saturday, February 1, 2020 9:13 AM (P)

That's what I got out of it.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, February 1, 2020 10:31 PM (P)

Let's see if I can recap:

Originally from bats, before 4 new sequences were spliced in.

4 new sequences did not naturally develop.

4 new sequences were intentional, artificially, spliced into the genome.

4 new sequences were sourced from 2 types of HIV.

The original reports stated that something like 14 health workers, or medical staff, had become infected. Could these be folk who worked at the lab which did the splicing, created the novel virus?

2 of the source HIV samples seem to be from India. Does this mean India did the splicing, or is it more likely China did it, where the outbreak started?

Recent reports state that novel Coronovirus has responded to anti-HIV chemicals. Does this mean these chemicals can help to curb or control the novel virus?

Did the creators of this not practice safe containment measures and it broke out of the creating facility, or were the Chinese the target instead of the perpetrator? Or was Wuhan just the testing phase?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, February 1, 2020 10:40 PM (P)

I also understand that the plane full of Americans was chartered. I had hoped it was a service of the U.S. Government.

It sounds like the CDC, or other authority, has directed that these passengers from China be detained, effectively quarantined, for some time, perhaps weeks. This seems extremely reasonable. I am sure those now in quarantine can understand, and are grateful that they are no longer stuck in virus-infected China, and are now merely stuck in sunny SoCal. Seems March Reserve AFB is also in Ontario, CA. The civilian Airport they were originally slated for was also in Ontario. I am not sure if they are the same property, merely civilian and military sides. A reserve Air Force Base sounds like a wonderful location for effective quarantine. Large supply of individual rooms, everybody can remain separated from each other and the public, and the government owns/runs it all, so can modify whatever they want to accomodate needs of the situation.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, February 1, 2020 10:45 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
This thread wa started on the evening of 20 Jan 2020.

I recall the news had already been out and updated a few times by that time.

From the stories in the OP, it seems the Sunday before was also referenced.

What is the date that they are considering Day One for their charts and graphs, and how do they define Day One? The first Fatality? The first known case in Human?

What was the best guess for Day 0, and what is the current best guess for Day 0?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, February 2, 2020 2:22 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I heard 5 confirmed cases in USA. Will there be a breakout? also a suspected case landing at Logan direct from China.

I just heard on the news that MA just confirmed it's first case. Some 20-something kid, student of U-Mass, fresh in from Wuhan.

1KIKI

Sunday, February 2, 2020 2:59 AM (P)

Quote:
I am not sure if they are the same property, merely civilian and military sides. (Ontario International Airport / March Air Reserve Base)

Just for clarity, these are not the same property, and not owned by the same entity, and also they're quite some distance from each other, geographically.

1KIKI

Sunday, February 2, 2020 3:08 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
This thread was started on the evening of 20 Jan 2020.

I recall the news had already been out and updated a few times by that time.

From the stories in the OP, it seems the Sunday before was also referenced.

What is the date that they are considering Day One for their charts and graphs, and how do they define Day One? The first Fatality? The first known case in Human?

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What was the best guess for Day 0, and what is the current best guess for Day 0?

Given the source of the graphic, and the fact that they seem to dig pretty deeply, I'd say that at the time, the best guesstimate for day 0 was the middle of December. And if you look at the name, it's officially tagged as being from 2019: 2019-nCoV (2019 novel coronavirus). But new information indicates the index patient fell ill ~ December 1, 2019.

1KIKI

Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:22 AM (P)

Why aren't the insertions into the coronavirus in the news?

First of all the article linked below complains that 'mis'information about coronavirus is being scrubbed from social media. Well, as people here should know by now, I'm not on any social media at all because I see no reason to give my privacy away for the dubious benefit of artificially 'connecting' with artificial entities and government propaganda. So when the author complains that social media is scrubbing information it disagrees with in favor of officialdom, narrative, and orthodoxy I do kind of roll my eyes a bit. Who in hell goes to social media for information?

But when the author states that GOOGLE is also being the Ministry of Truth, it's more concerning. So I went to duckduckgo, which is google without the noxious tracking, and typed in 2019-ncov hiv insertions. I got lots of 'conspiracy site' links and one pretty far down the page from bioRxiv. BioRxiv is the preprint server on which the original paper is found. When I clicked on the 'news' subheading, I got zero results. I mean that literally. Google seems to think that there is literally no news about the topic.

So I went to gibiru which is a modified google-type search engine and did another search. I got lots of credible results, the very first one being the bioRxiv link. (btw gibiru doesn't have sub-heads like 'news'. WYSIWYG.)

Getting back to the actual results, as I mentioned, the original paper was found on bioRxiv. And what is bioRxiv? "bioRxiv is an open access preprint repository for the biological sciences co-founded by John Inglis and Richard Sever in November 2013. It is hosted by the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory. As preprints, papers hosted on bioRxiv are not peer-reviewed, but undergo basic screening and checked against plagiarism." So this isn't some fly-by-night operation. And here's its link https://www.biorxiv.org/

And how did I originally get to the paper on bioRxiv? Well, ZH has a great reputation for posting links to original sources. And in its original story about this, they posted the link. Here is the link it posted https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1.full.pdf . You can read the paper at your leisure.

So google is scrubbing this from its search engine, and literally results(verb) that there is no news about it.

Even more so, this isn't being covered by the media at all. Searching duckduckgo under individual media names, like abc, nbc, fox, new york times, washington post etc results in zero links.

AND back one more time to the paper, linked above. Is it credible? One person - not a researcher in the field, but a claimed professional with interest - disputes it (for reasons I find unconvincing), writing to what appears to be a prepper blog. But here is the link https://theprepared.com/blog/no-the-2019-ncov-genome-doesnt-actually-s
eem-engineered-from-hiv/

In any case, here is the article that goes into detail about what information is being scrubbed out of social media and google, (and the news), and scrubbed from your view:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/coronavirus-contains-hiv-insert
ions-stoking-fears-over-artificially-created-bioweapon

Quote:
(short quote as an example) Kang-Xing Jin, Facebook’s head of health, wrote:

Our global network of third-party fact-checkers are continuing their work reviewing content and debunking false claims that are spreading related to the coronavirus. When they rate information as false, we limit its spread on Facebook and Instagram and show people accurate information from these partners. We also send notifications to people who already shared or are trying to share this content to alert them that it’s been fact-checked.

We will also start to remove content with false claims or conspiracy theories that have been flagged by leading global health organizations and local health authorities that could cause harm to people who believe them. We are doing this as an exten

SIGNYM

Sunday, February 2, 2020 11:43 AM (P)

I just did a general search (DuvkDuck) for news (last day) on coronavirus and most of the major news networks have not chimed in lately, let alone say anything at all about the insertions.

It's all pretty fluffy stuff about tasteless racist jokes about Coronavirus (I have to admit, one was pretty funny) and such. All of the grim coverage is saved for China.

The lesson that I learned from Fukushima was when they tell you "don't panic" it the time to start worrying. But I think the M$M has learned its lesson since then: "Don't panic" is a signal that some serious shit is happening. Much better to fill the airwaves and websites with happy-news.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, February 2, 2020 12:15 PM (P)

Or maybe they realized that most people are tuning out and it isn't generating any ratings for them anymore.

We're hitting a saturation point with Legacy Media bullshit. One day, there is going to be something serious to report but nobody is going to take it seriously.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Sunday, February 2, 2020 12:49 PM (P)

Not in this case. Even alternative media like social media is being scrubbed of any mention of the insertions into the virus. Facebook, youtube, instagram, twitter and so forth are actively being scrubbed. Google is actively suppressing results.

The whole idea that you can zombify people by simply not reporting the news was tried first, in my opinion, when protests were 'kettled'. Out of sight, out of mind. It was done on a large scale during Katrina. Even as the crisis was still unfolding, it was simply not being reported. Fukushima is another example.

Maybe I need to focus less on this and more on "what has disappeared from the news / what's not being reported". Perhaps a few dozen examples of MAJOR news that gets quietly erased will help you understand how thoroughly tptb have your information controlled.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, February 2, 2020 1:00 PM (P)

I'm aware of the practice. It makes it all the more easy when everybody's daily lives are oversatured with a ton of worthless information that they could never process or fully research.

Personally, I don't really care about that stuff anymore. I lost some good years of my youth being paranoid about it. 20 years later and the sun still rises.

I got a good 20 years left maybe. I doubt things are going to become disagreeable to me in that time. I'm certainly not going to waste what I have left worrying about a bunch of shit I have no control over. I'm as prepared for the unexpected as I'll ever be right now. I'll let the kids who have to deal with the future worry about things.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Sunday, February 2, 2020 1:03 PM (P)

Ok.

I'm just pointing out it's not just legacy media. It's pretty much everything.

ETA: Maybe you think I'm trying to harangue you into CARING. I hope it doesn't come across that way!

I'm pointing out - and not necessarily to you - that this is one very clear example of an EXTREMELY important news item that's being deliberately and nearly completely suppressed across the full spectrum of information sources. Jeeze, there was a whole lot more reporting on far flimsier 'news' items like 'golden showers'!

Do you remember that episodic movie you linked about the kids who found themselves in isolated rooms who had to construct from scratch the rules of their environment ... (that ended up with them probably being the only survivors of global nuclear holocaust)?

I feel that we're being moved into that same information space as that society of total-narrative(bullshit)-realityTV-infotainment 100% of the time, in every direction.

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Sunday, February 2, 2020 7:56 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
One day, there is going to be something serious to report but nobody is going to take it seriously.

Like, for instance, Trump taking it up the @ss from Putin. Check.

SIGNYM

Sunday, February 2, 2020 8:45 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
One day, there is going to be something serious to report but nobody is going to take it seriously.

Like, for instance, Trump taking it up the @ss from Putin. Check.

Didn't Rachel Madcow flog this non-story for a few years already? Why are you trying to resurrect this dead horse?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

SIGNYM

Sunday, February 2, 2020 8:56 PM (P)

Apparently one hospital has been completed and one is still under construction.

The latest figures point to a roughly 2% fatality rate.

One good thing about the virus moving out of China is that we'll get better numbers, because (again, if I believe the Chinese social media) the Wuhan government is so overwhelmed and test kits are so scarce relative to the demand that nobody has any good figures on R-naught and death rate.

But clearly this isn't Ebola, with a 90% death rate.

*****

Yanno, I was wondering ... China just dealt with a "pig Ebola" that caused them to cull 40% of their pigs. Now, they have nocoronavirus which may have HIV-like insertions in it. And most recently, a bird flu. Not the bird-to-human bird flu but a bird flu that is -once again- causing them to cull their flocks. Not that I'm suspicious person or anything but it seems mighty strange that China should be hit with all of these outbreaks all at once.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:39 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
One day, there is going to be something serious to report but nobody is going to take it seriously.

Like, for instance, Trump taking it up the @ss from Putin. Check.

Untrue. Zero legitimate sources. Also deeply homophobic.

Check.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:05 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Ok.

I'm just pointing out it's not just legacy media. It's pretty much everything.

Actually, that guy Styx that I have shown videos of on YouTube is still reporting on this. Every single morning, in fact. But I have not watched any of those videos, other than one yesterday where he did an article about an opinion piece on Wired where they say that we should just let Coronavirus run its course.

You know what I saw there? A LOT of comments from people who were deriding him for giving it so much coverage and wondering if he was cashing in on it. (Which I find to be a hilariously stupid take-away since all of his videos are put on YT without ads by the man himself and he's never made any ad revenue from them).

My take away from that is people just don't want to hear about it. Either because we've heard it all before and we don't care anymore, or people don't want to know how they're going to die. Either way, it's not a popular topic. The shelf life of The Walking Dead TV show was 5 to 7 years before most people lost interest. Coronavirus? 2 weeks, maybe?

None of his videos have been scrubbed from youtube. He's got 15 videos about it in the last two weeks. He's also got over 400k subscribers from all over the world.

Quote:
ETA: Maybe you think I'm trying to harangue you into CARING. I hope it doesn't come across that way!

I'm pointing out - and not necessarily to you - that this is one very clear example of an EXTREMELY important news item that's being deliberately and nearly completely suppressed across the full spectrum of information sources. Jeeze, there was a whole lot more reporting on far flimsier 'news' items like 'golden showers'!

I just don't know if I agree on how important it is. It certainly has the potential to be important, but if this is just another thing that is literally going to die out and some people die but most lives don't get effected from it at all, it's really not that important.

2% actually seems quite high as a mortality rate, I'll grant that, but if every single person in the world were to contract it, that would be only 150,000,000 deaths, and that's not even a drop in the bucket to the over population problem in the world. Also, if it's 2% everywhere else on average, mostly in China, it's probably not going to be anywhere near that high in the States. They can talk all day long about how advanced they've become recently as a society since the Clintons sold us out to China, but at the end of the day they're still very much behind us in many respects, most notably in their political ideologies that put a zero dollar price tag on the value of a citizen's life.

Quote:
Do you remember that episodic movie you linked about the kids who found themselves in isolated rooms who had to construct from scratch the rules of their environment ... (that ended up with them probably being the only survivors of global nuclear holocaust)?

Yeah. The Vault. I have a vague recollection of that night posting the episodes as I was watching them. I'm surprised anybody else watched it.

Quote:
I feel that we're being moved into that same information space as that society of total-narrative(bullshit)-realityTV-infotainment 100% of the time, in every direction.

Yeah. We probably are.

I don't mean to sound all Zen about it, and I certainly don't want to come off as a Pod Person and have you asking "Who are you, and what have you done with Jack!!!???", but there probably are instances where this isn't the worst thing in the world.

Orson Welles put on a radio show on Halloween many ages back and had people literally walking out in the streets, cooking pots on their heads for makeshift helmets, toting shotguns, looking to shoot down the aliens that were invading us.

I'm unaware of the "scrubbin

1KIKI

Monday, February 3, 2020 12:05 AM (P)

Well, obviously I disagree. The insertions into the coronavirus - that appear entirely unnatural, and designed to maximize infectivity (transmission) - are a big story. They tell us something unique and disturbing about the virus itself. They also tell us something important about the world we live in, and the things that are being done in secret. And they tell us about our government and its response to coronavirus, which is to employ just as much secrecy as the Chinese.

And the fact that the Chinese are building a second 'instant' coronavirus hospital should also tell us something disturbing about the virus, btw.

You know, should tshtf there will for sure be panic here in the US, no matter how much secrecy was employed, or how much anodyne was spread around ahead of time.

And there will be far more than inconvenience at the grocery store as the medical system is overwhelmed.

I can't see how less information improves people's lives, though I can see how it makes things easier for the government.

1KIKI

Monday, February 3, 2020 12:28 AM (P)

Quote:
Yanno, I was wondering ... China just dealt with a "pig Ebola" that caused them to cull 40% of their pigs. Now, they have nocoronavirus which may have HIV-like insertions in it. And most recently, a bird flu. Not the bird-to-human bird flu but a bird flu that is -once again- causing them to cull their flocks. Not that I'm suspicious person or anything but it seems mighty strange that China should be hit with all of these outbreaks all at once.

Well, we too have been hit with serious outbreaks. I think it was 3 years ago? where bird flu went through our agricultural areas in time to hit the Thanksgiving-day turkey growers. (Other birds were seriously affected, but the timing of the turkey-raising is sensitive.) The thought at the time was that it had been brought in by wild ducks? geese? I don't remember which at this point.

I think the fact that our pork supplies haven't been affected is because they're housed indoors, in mega-facilities eta: without a lot of contact with other populations of pigs.. (And as I've read, the fact that they have such low trichinosis rates is because they're now being fed a vegetarian diet, instead of scavenging outdoors or being fed meat.)

And the current coronavirus I personally would trace to the BSL4 lab outside of Wuhan.

Anyway - it's an interesting idea, but given their agricultural practices, it could be entirely coincidental. Goes into my Signy-named bin interesting if true.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, February 3, 2020 12:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Well, obviously I disagree. The insertions into the coronavirus - that appear entirely unnatural, and designed to maximize infectivity (transmission) - are a big story. They tell us something unique and disturbing about the virus itself. They also tell us something important about the world we live in, and the things that are being done in secret. And they tell us about our government and its response to coronavirus, which is to employ just as much secrecy as the Chinese.

And the fact that the Chinese are building a second 'instant' coronavirus hospital should also tell us something disturbing about the virus, btw.

You know, should tshtf there will for sure be panic here in the US, no matter how much secrecy was employed, or how much anodyne was spread around ahead of time.

And there will be far more than inconvenience at the grocery store as the medical system is overwhelmed.

I can't see how less information improves people's lives, though I can see how it makes things easier for the government.

Well... It's because news isn't news anymore. It's entertainment. It's a business. That's been suspect for quite a while now, but they've made it abundantly clear in the last three years and they're not even trying to hide it anymore.

This virus is a joke. Nothing is going to happen. You're going to be alright.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, February 3, 2020 1:23 AM (P)

Folk are not even allowed to take appropriate precautions.
Unless you believe your government has a clue what proper precautions are for this outbreak.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/american-airlines-gas-mask-passenger-coronav
irus-200024805.html

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, February 3, 2020 1:29 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Well, obviously I disagree. The insertions into the coronavirus - that appear entirely unnatural, and designed to maximize infectivity (transmission) - are a big story. They tell us something unique and disturbing about the virus itself. They also tell us something important about the world we live in, and the things that are being done in secret. And they tell us about our government and its response to coronavirus, which is to employ just as much secrecy as the Chinese.

And the fact that the Chinese are building a second 'instant' coronavirus hospital should also tell us something disturbing about the virus, btw.

You know, should tshtf there will for sure be panic here in the US, no matter how much secrecy was employed, or how much anodyne was spread around ahead of time.

And there will be far more than inconvenience at the grocery store as the medical system is overwhelmed.

I can't see how less information improves people's lives, though I can see how it makes things easier for the government.

I think that several times here I have posted about censorship in our media, libraries - the background censorship, the liberals deleting the reasonable and sensible information.

Each time it seemed a dud. Nobody seemed to care. Or maybe I didn't frame it right.

You were probably busy, at work and all.

1KIKI

Monday, February 3, 2020 1:39 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Well, obviously I disagree. The insertions into the coronavirus - that appear entirely unnatural, and designed to maximize infectivity (transmission) - are a big story. They tell us something unique and disturbing about the virus itself. They also tell us something important about the world we live in, and the things that are being done in secret. And they tell us about our government and its response to coronavirus, which is to employ just as much secrecy as the Chinese.

And the fact that the Chinese are building a second 'instant' coronavirus hospital should also tell us something disturbing about the virus, btw.

You know, should tshtf there will for sure be panic here in the US, no matter how much secrecy was employed, or how much anodyne was spread around ahead of time.

And there will be far more than inconvenience at the grocery store as the medical system is overwhelmed.

I can't see how less information improves people's lives, though I can see how it makes things easier for the government.

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I think that several times here I have posted about censorship in our media, libraries - the background censorship, the liberals deleting the reasonable and sensible information.

Each time it seemed a dud. Nobody seemed to care. Or maybe I didn't frame it right.

You were probably busy, at work and all.

Probably, because the censorship has been something I've been harping on for quite some time as well. That and the gullibility of a lot of people, who seem to have their minds erased so they develop no mental history of what has come before.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, February 3, 2020 1:41 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Well, obviously I disagree. The insertions into the coronavirus - that appear entirely unnatural, and designed to maximize infectivity (transmission) - are a big story. They tell us something unique and disturbing about the virus itself. They also tell us something important about the world we live in, and the things that are being done in secret. And they tell us about our government and its response to coronavirus, which is to employ just as much secrecy as the Chinese.

And the fact that the Chinese are building a second 'instant' coronavirus hospital should also tell us something disturbing about the virus, btw.

You know, should tshtf there will for sure be panic here in the US, no matter how much secrecy was employed, or how much anodyne was spread around ahead of time.

And there will be far more than inconvenience at the grocery store as the medical system is overwhelmed.

I can't see how less information improves people's lives, though I can see how it makes things easier for the government.

Do you think it is mostly American based sourced which are being scrubbed? Are there some countries which do not rely upon google to think which are not scrubbing? Are other languages being left un-scrubbed? Some nations/languages might only have a dozen internet accesses, so what would be the purpose of scrubbing those?

1KIKI

Monday, February 3, 2020 2:37 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Do you think it is mostly American based sourced which are being scrubbed? Are there some countries which do not rely upon google to think which are not scrubbing? Are other languages being left un-scrubbed? Some nations/languages might only have a dozen internet accesses, so what would be the purpose of scrubbing those?

I used several different search engines but didn't find any major news sources listed.

I went to the German online version of Der Spiegle, and the French online versions of Paris Match and AFP and didn't find anything. Didn't find anything in the English online version of Xinhua. The English online version of Al Jazeera has a lot of news about coronavirus, but they only mention that ZH was banned from twitter, that's as close as anyone gets to the topic of insertions.

So - not finding it in those places, either.

1KIKI

Monday, February 3, 2020 2:44 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well... It's because news isn't news anymore. It's entertainment. It's a business. That's been suspect for quite a while now, but they've made it abundantly clear in the last three years and they're not even trying to hide it anymore.

This virus is a joke. Nothing is going to happen. You're going to be alright.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Yanno, I've been posting for quite some time that 'it all depends'. What are the virus characteristics? How does it mutate? What precautionary measures are, or aren't, being taken?

But in no case do I see censorship as helpful to anyone but tptb.

As for * me * being all right, or anyone in the family - you can't guarantee that, can you? So why are you spouting bs? And if it does get going here in the US (notice I've been saying IF the whole time), medical facilities are going to be overwhelmed. Commerce will be crippled. Supply chains will break down. Even if you don't catch the virus, or catch it but remain relatively unscathed, you will be affected.

1KIKI

Monday, February 3, 2020 3:00 AM (P)

So, this is a topic of interest to me, and I tried to find any reasonable contemporaneous numbers over time for coronavirus infections in Wuhan city the capital of the province of Hubei, the numbers of coronavirus infections in Hubei province, and the numbers of coronavirus infections in the rest of China, to get an idea of the gradient, so to speak. After a slow start, China has taken extreme measures to prevent its spread, including having people self-quarantine, and quarantining cities, and quarantining entire areas. I'd be interested in tracking this, just to see what slows it down, and what doesn't. Every new index patient in an previously uninvolved area is an opportunity to see what happens. But damn, those numbers are impossible to come by on the internet, though I guarantee they exist in facilities all over the world.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, February 3, 2020 3:13 AM (P)

I dunno Kiki. Youtube LOVES censoring stuff. Maybe you need to broaden your news sources to find what you're looking for.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Monday, February 3, 2020 3:19 AM (P)

Bullshit, Jack. Just stop. Stop being an ass, just because you can't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

Or better yet - LOOK AT ALL THE SEARCHES AND ALL THE SOURCES I'VE GONE TO THAT HAVE MILLIONS OF VIEWS EVERY DAY AND FOUND NOTHING. LITERALLY NOTHING.

Or are facts too much for you? Again.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, February 3, 2020 3:28 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Bullshit, Jack. Just stop. Stop being an ass, just because you can't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

Or better yet - LOOK AT ALL THE SEARCHES AND ALL THE SOURCES I'VE GONE TO THAT HAVE MILLIONS OF VIEWS EVERY DAY AND FOUND NOTHING. LITERALLY NOTHING.

Or are facts too much for you? Again.

Styx has over 400,000 subscribers, and by many metrics he has more views than a lot of talking heads on Cable Fake News Networks. He also has a large audience in the EU as well as other places such as Brazil and Venesuela and is on many other platforms outside of YouTube in the eventuality that YouTube removes him and censors him.

Tim Pool is afraid of YouTube and has suspiciously stopped reporting on the Coronavirus. He is beholden to them for the ad revenue. Styx isn't either, and he puts out at least one video about it with updates every single day.

He's not pulling this information out of his ass. He never does that. So he's getting it from somewhere. You're looking in the wrong places.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, February 3, 2020 3:37 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Bullshit, Jack. Just stop. Stop being an ass, just because you can't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

Or better yet - LOOK AT ALL THE SEARCHES AND ALL THE SOURCES I'VE GONE TO THAT HAVE MILLIONS OF VIEWS EVERY DAY AND FOUND NOTHING. LITERALLY NOTHING.

Or are facts too much for you? Again.

Just did a Google search for nothing more than "Coronavirus" without quotes.

Tons of stuff shown.

Top three results:

2 hours ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/02/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html

8 minutes ago: https://www.kcra.com/article/second-case-coronavirus-confirmed-in-sant
a-clara-county-cdc-says/30743112

14 minutes ago: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/south-bay/second-case-of-coronav
irus-in-bay-area-confirmed/2225499/

Maybe you've got some CIA spooks messing with your IP address or something. I honestly don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about when you say it's being scrubbed from the internet. A simple one word search on google showed me three results from the last two hours. Two of them in the last 15 minutes.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Monday, February 3, 2020 4:52 AM (P)

Jack - THAT WASN'T WHAT I POSTED ABOUT. So just stop being an asshole.

I POSTED ABOUT THE CORONAVIRUS INSERTIONS.

Jeeze. Get a grip. Or at least a clue.

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