REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

MH17 information war heats up

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 14:49
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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


US Government Releases Alleged Evidence Of MH17 Missile Trajectory
Tyler Durden

Quote:

The 'information war' is hotting up. On the heels of yesterday's 30-minute detailed presentation of Russia's 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and the US), CNN reports that the US government has released a satellite trajectory map of what it says was the flight's path and the site from which the missile was shot. Of course, the epicenter of the MH17 launch is Snizhne, in pro-Russian separatist-held territory. Rebel leader Alexander Borodai responded, "we don't have the technical ability to destroy this plane. Ukrainians are not interested in the truth."


Which is right in the heart of separatist-held territory...


We await the detailed presentation of exactly what this means (or what The White House believes it to mean) ... or if it is simply a well drawn Powerpoint slide?





http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-22/us-government-releases-allege
d-evidence-mh17-missile-trajectory

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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 2:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Meanwhile, Kerry is backing away from claims they have 'evidence' the missile came from separatist-controlled territory. When asked directly if the US had 'evidence' of Russian involvement, one of the key items to ascertain is where the missile came from. That's an item for which the US claims it has proof. Not just social media sources, but direct, verifiable US intelligence proof.

Kerry's answer was evasive about the direct proof they say they have. He failed to mention it when it should have been front-and-center. It looks like he's shifting the goalposts. It may be an oversight, but when people look like they're changing the message - especially by omission - it alerts me and I tend to keep an eye on it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/john-kerry-evidence-links-russia-to-rebe
ls-who-shot-down-malaysia-airlines-flight-17
/




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 4:05 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Kerry is a moron.

If we do have evidence, why in the HELL would you want the world to know what we have, what we can track, and the like ? Frelling MORONS.

If we DON'T have that ability, there's still value in letting everyone else wonder what capabilities we currently have.

Keep 'em guessing. That's a good plan to go by when dealing w/ such intelligence.

Sounds to me like Kerry, jack wagon that he is, blurted out some top secret info, and then had to crawfish back away from letting the cat out of the bag.

Such incompetence. Stunning.

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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 4:19 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Kerry is a moron.

If we do have evidence, why in the HELL would you want the world to know what we have, what we can track, and the like ? Frelling MORONS.

If we DON'T have that ability, there's still value in letting everyone else wonder what capabilities we currently have.

Keep 'em guessing. That's a good plan to go by when dealing w/ such intelligence.

Sounds to me like Kerry, jack wagon that he is, blurted out some top secret info, and then had to crawfish back away from letting the cat out of the bag.

Such incompetence. Stunning.



Most of the evidence we have can be talked about because everyone knows we have these capabilities. Look for a cohesive case to be put forth in the UN with affected member states. It's the best way to do it. Probably United States Ambassador Samantha Power will lead the delegation of complainants.


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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 4:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Obama said it first.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-17/malaysia-jet-shot-down-in-ukr
aine-near-russia-ifx-says.html


starting @~ 10:15




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 4:43 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
It may be an oversight, but when people look like they're changing the message - especially by omission - it alerts me and I tend to keep an eye on it.




You mean like when Russian media said the Ukrainian government was trying to assassinate Putin, and then said they were trying to shoot down a Russian passenger plane, and the said it was shot down, not by a missile, but by a Ukrainian jet with U.S. help?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russians-fed-conspiracy-
theories-ukraine-crash-24658371


Yep. you'd be wise to keep an eye on the Russian media.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 4:52 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I am shocked that anyone could be stunned by Secretary Ketchup's display of incompetence.

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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:27 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
It may be an oversight, but when people look like they're changing the message - especially by omission - it alerts me and I tend to keep an eye on it.




You mean like when Russian media said the Ukrainian government was trying to assassinate Putin, and then said they were trying to shoot down a Russian passenger plane, and the said it was shot down, not by a missile, but by a Ukrainian jet with U.S. help?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russians-fed-conspiracy-
theories-ukraine-crash-24658371


Yep. you'd be wise to keep an eye on the Russian media.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."



The stupid bastards didn't even realize the Ukraine jet they suggested shot down the airliner has a ceiling of 23 thousand feet and the airliner was over 32 thousand. Assholes......


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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


G ... eezer

RT didn't seem to have any of that. Do you have sources for all the supposed propaganda that was spread?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


No, of course he doesn't.

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:30 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
G ... eezer

RT didn't seem to have any of that.



And who said it did?

Of the specific sources mentioned:

- Yekaterina Andreyeva is on Vremya TV. It doesn't have an English net presence that I can find. If you can read Russian you can check it out here. Google will translate it, but searching for a particular story isn't gonna work. I expect ABC News probably can access a Russian-speaker to do this for them. http://www.vremya.tv/

- Rossiya TV (also known as Rossiya 1 and Russia 1) is a popular government-owned network, but is not RT, and is internal to Russia. Again, no English net face and no good way to search unless you speak Russian. http://russia.tv/


- Komsomolskaya Pravda is a tabloid. Same problem as the others. No English face. http://www.vremya.tv/

What RT produces for the international market, and what Russian domestic media provides to Russians, are probably pretty different.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:05 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
G ... eezer

RT didn't seem to have any of that. Do you have sources for all the supposed propaganda that was spread?


Try to keep up. (That's my new favorite phrase, thanks Sig!)

It took you a few days to hear about the good job dealing with the bodies story. I saw it a while ago, but you just post about it today and claim the stories being downplayed. No, you just didn't see it.

And now you claim to find no sources re the propaganda? Do you even look?




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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


GEEZER: I've always wondered if you were a military-intelligence person. Didn't you say you were a psyops in Vietnam/Operation Phoenix? So, are you one of those Russian-speaking intelligence guys?

I can read a little Spanish (thanks, HS French teacher!) so I know how different the English-language version and the Spanish versions are. I assume the same with Xinhua/ CCTV English-language version, and RT versus internal press as well.

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 1:41 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
GEEZER: I've always wondered if you were a military-intelligence person. Didn't you say you were a psyops in Vietnam/Operation Phoenix? So, are you one of those Russian-speaking intelligence guys?



Never in Military Intelligence or involved in psyops, nor claimed to be, although I was in Vietnam. I spent a year sitting in a bunker running a teletype.

Nor do I speak Russian.

As noted, I'd bet that ABC News does have someone on hand to check out what's on those Russian news sites before they publish an article about what news the Russians are getting.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 4:35 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Also, here's a link to the Russia 1 story about the shoot-down being the Ukrainian government's attempt to shoot down Putin's plane.

http://www.1tv.ru/news/world/263379

And here's the "Ukrainian air traffic controllers forced the airliner to fly into the missile range" story from Russia 24.

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1810146

You can see other theories produced by Russian media, with links, here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russians-have-many-theories-about-
the-mh17-crash-one-involves-fake-dead-people/2014/07/22/9a1c5ec9-11b6-4384-b585-53fff62e5779_story.html?hpid=z2


These you can actually read with Bing or Google translate.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 5:10 PM

THGRRI


Sig is not interested in the links posted. All she is about is deflecting blame from those who did it to those who didn't. We have all witnessed it for a week now.


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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:49 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Re: Languages.

Be careful who you trust with translations, for example MEMRI is rather notorious for translations so distorted they border on outright lies.

Mechanical/Software translation is useful, albeit still kind of awful.

I struggle with this, as my own language skills are terribly lacking - Yuriko loves to mock me for speaking only one language, and very badly, but I do know that depending on others for translation opens you up to their biases, intentional or not.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranslationWithAnAgenda

-F

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Wednesday, January 8, 2020 2:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Interesting if true



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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