GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Serenity on Slashdot

POSTED BY: CLJOHNSTON108
UPDATED: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:24
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7796
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Sunday, November 20, 2005 5:21 AM

CLJOHNSTON108


Slashdot users discussing Space.com's Top 10 Space Movies of All Time have a lot to say about Serenity...

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/20/060224&from=rss

---------------

Deep Thoughts...
...by Jack Handey...

"Whether they ever find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be considered an enemy planet."

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:45 AM

EMBERS


It is interesting that the discussion ended up being all about 'Serenity'
of course no one can argue that most of those other films don't belong in the top ten,
and 'Serenity' is so new that passions are running high
IMO when Serenity has been out for 10-20 years
it will be recognized as one of the greatest Sci-fi films ever....
If all Lucas had ever done was the prequels then I don't think Star Wars would be on anyone's top ten
(he had those earlier great films that came out in the 1970s and that was the peak)
If all Star Trek had going for it was Enterprise and that last film (the lame Picard clone one) then IT wouldn't be in anyone's top ten of anything...
'Serenity' is still all new and growing,
it can't be compared to the already dead Sci-fi shows of the past....


**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse,
and have you joined the Browncoats yet?
http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/?fuseaction=tools.invlink
&u=embers&linkID=36

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 8:45 AM

JUBELLATE


Low and behold, they start arguing about the inconsistancies in space travel. Yet another reason I don't read slashdot. They can't see the story through the physics.

The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:59 AM

ENTRAYL


I just had to quote:

"Serenity is a cr***y B-movie that has nothing to do with space or sciene. It is ret***ed beyond belief, with it's fake physically impossible ion-clouds..."

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:12 AM

CAUSAL


Why did you asterisk-out "crappy" and "retarded"? I've seen worse just out in the open...

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 11:07 AM

ENTRAYL


Quote:

Originally posted by Causal:
Why did you asterisk-out "crappy" and "retarded"? I've seen worse just out in the open...

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.



Stars are my favourite shape.

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 11:25 AM

QUICKSAND


I prefer the purple horseshoes.

The "Serenity" quote once again pertained to the science and not the story, as the person who wrote it should also be informed that (1) faster-than-light travel is impossible, (2) matter transportation is equally as impossible, and (3) there is not, despite what Kubrick might have us believe, anything buried under the surface of the moon.

Personally, I don't pay much attention to people who can only look at the science, and even then, they only look at the science when it's convenient for them. Since the top ten list was posted, I see "Serenity" isn't on it anymore, but give it time. A certain amount of the list is affected by what's trendy, hence the presence of "First Contact."

In ten years, every TNG movie will be forgotten (and with good reason), but by that time Joss will have directed 2 or 3 more movies, and with the success of "Wonder Woman," little fan boys like the one above will come out of the woodwork.... in favor of "Firefly."

I'm a nice guy, I swear. I just play an asshole on TV.

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:56 PM

ATILLA


I think that I could argue that the only Star Wars films that approach real greatness are the first and last ones. The rest we watched out of respect for the first one. The last one was pretty good.

The question is weather you want to measure by box office or quality.

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 5:00 PM

THEGREYJEDI


wait wait wait. Are you deigning to say that ANY Star Wars movie is better than Empire Strike Back?! Now, unlike many of the Old Guard Star Wars Fans, I enjoyed the prequels. This is not to say that I could not see their flaws. I do concede that as a whole, the Original Trilogy is a far greater work. But I liked the prequels. And Episode III was indeed the greatest among them. Possibly greater than Return of the Jedi. But Empire is the best, and that's all there is to it.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Chief Engineer - USS SereniTREE
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com
http://www.cafepress.com/thegreyjedi

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:11 PM

ERINBC


Seriously, rating a SciFi film based entirely on the physics?? Come on...anybody care to discuss the physics of light sabers or "force lightening"? Geez...some people just can't have fun.

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:39 PM

ELITUSPRIME


Quote:

Seriously, rating a SciFi film based entirely on the physics?? Come on...anybody care to discuss the physics of light sabers or "force lightening"? Geez...some people just can't have fun.


That's slashdot for ya. Every other comment starts with something like "I hate to bring reality into this, but..." Then the poster tries to show how smart they are.

Even if the subject at hand is space travel, time travel, or how to make a ham sandwhich... :)

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Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:29 PM

ACESANDEIGHTS


Now they are discussing how many points there are between a planet and a bunch of stuff no one with a real life cares about. Go Slashdot! Oh wait, I'm kidding, Slashdot sucks.

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Monday, November 21, 2005 4:02 AM

ATILLA


Maybe it all has to do with familiarity with the issues. I don't have any problem with space travel as it is depicted. I simply assume that they have some sources of power that don't have the characteristics of rockets and can overcome the distances. Someone who is intamtely familiar with all of the real physics might have trouble making the leap. Like say a poker player having to listen to a description of a game where the winner beats a pair of freens with an dilly-poo-frenblat. The poker player would conclude that this represented nothing real and that the story would be of no-interest.

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Monday, November 21, 2005 5:37 AM

CLJOHNSTON108


Quote:

Originally posted by AcesAndEights:
Go Slashdot! Oh wait, I'm kidding, Slashdot sucks.

That seems to be the popular theory.

Only reason I posted it was because there were quite a few of the increasingly-typical, "I'd never heard of Firefly until I saw Serenity. I bought the Firefly DVD and watched all 14 episodes in two sittings."
I pay attention to that kinda stuff, cuz I'm a "glass half full" sorta guy.

Quote:

Re:Serenity! (Score:5, Interesting)
by BrynM (217883) * on Sunday November 20, @02:35AM (#14074181) ( http://www.networkoftheapes.net/ | Last Journal: Monday November 21, @04:16AM)

I think Serenity hasn't been around long enough to sink in to the culture properly, but god, such a good movie. Firefly was a good series too.

I have a pair of friends (BF/GF unit) that aren't into sci-fi at all. She is arguably the least sci-fi person I have known in a long time. She admits to seeing "that trek thing" but didn't like it. He's just not interested usually.

First the boyfriend saw a couple of episodes of Firefly with me (I have the DVDs) and got really exited to see Serenity. I took them both. The very next day they borrowed my DVD set and watched all of Firefly for the next week.

I'm sure there of hundreds of stories like mine. Give that movie/series to pretty much anyone and I'll bet they like it. It's got a broad appeal and no weird looking costumes. Everyone can identify with working hard (even if what you do is nefarious) and having to defend it in some way. That's it's essence. Within 2-5 years it will be a landmark film, IMHO.


Quote:

Serenity (Score:5, Insightful)
by ngunton (460215) on Sunday November 20, @02:08AM (#14074111) ( http://www.neilgunton.com/)

I never watched the series, and just happened to catch the movie two days before it disappeared from my local theatre. It was the matinee, and there were three other people in there with me. I have to say, I've been avoiding going out to see movies in recent years, because there always seems to be some asshat sitting behind me who feels that it's perfectly ok to discuss plot points in a normal voice, or be in a constant state of candy rustling, or other noise that just ruins the whole thing.

Anyway, back to the real point: Serenity has restored my faith in movies. Star Wars (the recent run of prequals) almost killed off my hope totally. I just felt so ... empty ... walking out of those movies. All special effect, no humanity, no heart. Is anyone else yawning these days at the latest, greatest special effects? I mean, it's been a while since I was really wowed by this stuff - I think Terminator II was the last movie that really made me go "hey, neat!". The Matrix was ok (the first one only, please, not the travesty that the other two became), but it was mostly the style (and bullet time) that make that movie.

Serenity was a return to something that George Lucas almost had in his grasp with his very first Star Wars movie: A sense of real people, experiencing real life, only in a very, very different environment to ours. This is true escapism - not Grand Councils and "sheratons in space" (thanks Joss), but real, gritty, imperfect, cowardly, funny, wisecracking people. The sort of characters you would probably like if you met them in real life. Who can imagine interacting with any of the recent Star Wars characters in real life? Sheesh.

Joss Whedon is one of those people who has a talent for mixing the real with the fantastic in a funny, witty way. I think Serenity is right up there at the top of my list of all-time favorite movies. It rocks because it has heart, which so many movies these days lack. The big mistake action movies make is that if you don't care about the characters, then who cares what happens to them? In Serenity, I cared. I took my wife to see it for a second time (had to travel a bit, since it was gone from most places by then). She is not a Sci-Fi fan, but I had a hunch, and I was right - she loved it. That says something.

I also went right out and bought the Firefly DVD set, and we both watched it all the way through over the next few nights. I have to say I am totally amazed that this show was canceled. They canned this in favor of what? More reality sludge? Yikes.



---------------

Deep Thoughts...
...by Jack Handey...

"Whether they ever find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be considered an enemy planet."

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Monday, November 21, 2005 9:00 AM

RONSWHARLEY



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Monday, November 21, 2005 2:45 PM

STARLET


Quote:

Originally posted by RonswHarley:
In your opinion this maybe so !!!
But tell me what move are believable?
You tell me what movies you like and I'll show you thing in your movies.
By the way. movie are a entertainment not a traning film.



Google language translator... everyone's an expert.

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Monday, November 21, 2005 3:27 PM

RONSWHARLEY


Quote:

Originally posted by starlet:
Quote:

Originally posted by RonswHarley:
In your opinion this maybe so !!!
But tell me what move are believable?
You tell me what movies you like and I'll show you thing in your movies.
By the way. movie are a entertainment not a traning film.



Google language translator... everyone's an expert.



I don't think I did it right the firist time the remark was for ENTRAYL remark.

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Monday, November 21, 2005 3:28 PM

RONSWHARLEY


Quote:

Originally posted by Entrayl:
I just had to quote:

"Serenity is a cr***y B-movie that has nothing to do with space or sciene. It is ret***ed beyond belief, with it's fake physically impossible ion-clouds..."




In your opinion this maybe so !!!
But tell me what move are believable?
You tell me what movies you like and I'll show you thing in your movies.
By the way. movie are a entertainment not a traning film.

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Monday, November 21, 2005 5:21 PM

ACESANDEIGHTS


Quote:

Originally posted by Atilla:
Maybe it all has to do with familiarity with the issues. I don't have any problem with space travel as it is depicted. I simply assume that they have some sources of power that don't have the characteristics of rockets and can overcome the distances. Someone who is intamtely familiar with all of the real physics might have trouble making the leap. Like say a poker player having to listen to a description of a game where the winner beats a pair of freens with an dilly-poo-frenblat. The poker player would conclude that this represented nothing real and that the story would be of no-interest.



I didn't think of it like that..

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Monday, November 21, 2005 5:47 PM

ERINBC


I get the whole thing about if you're an expert in physics you'd find it unbelievable, but I'm a grad student in history and I still watch movies like Braveheart and Kingdom of Heaven and enjoy them, despite the glaring historical fact screw ups. Same with my husband who's a firefighter, he still loves Backdraft, but he can tell you everything that's unrealistic or impossible. I think movies are more about creating characters that you care about and want to see their stories. IMHO, If you want facts, go watch a PBS documentary...for God's sake stay away from the History Channel, though! (LOL j/k historians poke fun at the HC all the time but they do a pretty good job)

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Monday, November 21, 2005 8:22 PM

ENTRAYL


Uh, guys, can I just clarify that I was quoteing the guy coz I thought he was a moron for thinking that a movie is retarded just based of its ion clouds?

kthxbye.

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Monday, November 21, 2005 8:36 PM

AINTNOSHEPHERD


This is the first I've heard of the slashdot thing, but I have to put a word in defense for the physics nerds. Sci-Fi/Space movies, w/ the exception of 2001, Apollo 13 (obviously) & few others, all bug me on a subliminal level, in their disregard of gravity & inertia. You flip a switch and everyone sticks to the deck, so strongly that you can accelerate at nine g's -while standing unsupported in the middle of the bridge- and not become a pancake on the aft bulkhead!

Trivia question: who said, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic?" No seriously, I wish I knew, but it's apropos to what was posted earlier. What it really boils down to in filmed entertainment is budget, and no one wants to do that much wire work. As Joss himself said, "I didn't want to make a floaty movie."

All that said, we accept artificial gravity because that's our cultural fantasy space opera paradigm; it's transparently believable to us because we've been raised with it. If we non-astronauts are watching the novelty of life in zero-g, we're not watching the interaction between characters that makes the whole thing worth watching, and watching, and watching again. Neither Firefly nor Serenity have any need of hard science, particularly if it might detract from the Stories. So like I said, it bugs me on a subliminal level, but it doesn't detract from my love of the 'verse and the people in it.

"Is it bad that what she just said makes perfect sense to me?"

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Tuesday, November 22, 2005 1:19 AM

CLJOHNSTON108


Quote:

Originally posted by aintnoshepherd:
Trivia question: who said, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic?" No seriously, I wish I knew, but it's apropos to what was posted earlier.

Arthur C. Clarke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws

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Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:25 AM

ERINBC


Quote:

Originally posted by Entrayl:
Uh, guys, can I just clarify that I was quoteing the guy coz I thought he was a moron for thinking that a movie is retarded just based of its ion clouds?

kthxbye.



Totally agree with you there. How can you enjoy a movie if you're busy picking it apart? Especially for dumb things that have no impact on the plot or character development.

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Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:31 AM

NIKNAK


There's a reason that Serenity isn't in the space.com top ten list - it wasn't in contention. Voting is done by presenting you with sci-fi movies in random order and asking you to rate them out of 5. I ranked/skipped enough films that I started seeing the same ones again. Serenity wasn't there. They probably created the poll before Serenity was released and didn't know about it.

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Tuesday, November 22, 2005 1:17 PM

SIRSQUISHY


Look, this is how i rate a series/movie

1. after each episode, does it keep you comming back for more?

2. Do you feel like you are getting involved in the show?

3. Do the charaters have a good background/are certian aspects explained enough? ( and NO i dont mean the science part )

4. Do you wish there was more to watch?

For the most part, Firefly had all of these, Startrek..only TNG for me, starwars..bleh., Harry potter...yea.

i really dont care what others say, Firefly is going to be on my top 5 list for a good long while, i just hope they produce more to the series, and release more movies. If they did, this epic would be greater then all the startreks and starwars combined together.

thats my 2CP.

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Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:04 PM

PRETTYPRETTY


I couldn't even figure out that that meant retarded.

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Tuesday, November 22, 2005 3:20 PM

CLJOHNSTON108


Quote:

Originally posted by sirsquishy:
If they did, this epic would be greater then all the startreks and starwars combined together.

Hope that doesn't include Babylon 5!

As genius as Joss is, and however much I love Firefly, I don't think he could've pulled off what JMS did.

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Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:24 AM

RPLACKETT


Ok I agree in part about the annoying nature or physics in most SF (yes i am a physicist, nerd or otherwise), but imo the thing thats REALLY annoying is when they use technobabble as a major plot device. Then i feel thoroughly justified in taking it to bits. Not only did Firefly almost never use ANY technobabble, cos Kaylee translated it all into captainspeak for us, but in most cases the technology and the 'physics' of the situation wasn't actually mentiond at all. It was all about the story. Firefly is probaly the least tech dependent SF out there, so to dismiss Serentiy on the basis of the ion clouds (whihc could have been any sort of cloud or a charged atmosphere or whtever) not being real/believable (like the gravity was!?!?! *smack* hello!!) seems ridiculous to the point of lunacy.

To me Serenity and Firefly are the MOST scientifically believable SF around simply because they don't try and explain everything, its just there and it works, (or not as the case may be) and the characters accept it. It reduces the elements of disbelief to a minimum and means that the writers can write without having a bank of experts to consult about the canonical manner in which tachyon beams should operate ... ffs (although when they do the sequal, if they should happen to need a physicist...)

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Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:56 PM

RASMA


im glad i never went to slash dot for sugestions on scifi shows firefly is one of my favorites because i find it the most belivable look at the futuer the rich get richer and the poor get poorer also the charicture development is great and the people at slash dot need to get a dictonary sifi=science fiction fiction: A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.

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Thursday, November 24, 2005 3:21 PM

GIXXER


Babylon 5 nailed the physics thing really well.

If I recall rightly, Delenn is showing Sheridan around the White Star, and just casually chucks in "We've had artificial gravity for some time" and that's the last you hear of it.

Thank God no CSI scriptwriters were involved.

Not making a big deal of something makes it everyday, and therefore realistic. And you don't stress out over it ever again.

Or if you do, you take a step back and remember that it's fictional and you have a life. Unlike me.

G




I'll run an NMR scan...(edited)...this works by...(edited)...over 83% of all...(edited)...
Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot you are an SCI same as me, work in this lab and use this machine every damn day.

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Thursday, November 24, 2005 3:27 PM

FOLLOWMAL



I agree, "The Empire Strikes Back" was far and away the best of the Star Wars movies.

I believe like so many of us do that when the DVD comes out, there will be people who watch "Serenity" who didn't for whatever reason, and then they will see, then they will come around to seeing that this is one of those awesome films, like "The Empire Strikes Back" that stays with you ,that you want to see over and over again.

It'll be on a future top ten list. I'm sure of it.

"These are stone killers, little man. They ain't cuddly like me." ~Jayne

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Friday, November 25, 2005 6:00 AM

GATORMARC


Perhaps a little late to the party, but I decided to go ahead and add my opinions:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168847&cid=14112560

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168847&cid=14113269

GatorMarc

Eat 'em up, chomp, chomp.

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Friday, November 25, 2005 8:21 AM

CLJOHNSTON108


Quote:

Originally posted by Gixxer:
Babylon 5 nailed the physics thing really well.

If I recall rightly, Delenn is showing Sheridan around the White Star, and just casually chucks in "We've had artificial gravity for some time" and that's the last you hear of it.

I think a better example is how all Earth ships (including Babylon 5 itself) have a rotating section for gravity (windows are in the floor), with near-zero gravity at the core.
Also, the realistic maneuvering of ships like the Starfury, etc.

B5TECH.COM - The Babylon 5 Tech-Manual
http://www.b5tech.com/

But what made Babylon 5 truly great were the story & character growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5

IMDb user comments for "Babylon 5" (1994)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105946/usercomments

The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html

I've spent the last couple of days downloading over 500 of the clearest-sounding WAVs from this site to my iPod...

Down Below Sound Archive for Babylon 5
http://b5.cs.uwyo.edu/bab5/

...and I was frequently wiping tears from my eyes.

The MP3s on this site are amazing! (Just wish there were more of 'em!)

Babylonsounds.com - The Babylon 5 music archive
http://www.babylonsounds.com/en/index.html

High quality videos of all seven opening title sequences (including the final fate of Babylon 5 herself *SPOILERS!*) are here.
http://www.vidiot.com/B5/

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Friday, November 25, 2005 11:46 AM

DELTAFOURTWO


I think that what the folks over at Slashdot might tend to overlook in reguard to "Firefly" and "Serenity" is that it's a show designed more by and around the concepts of storytelling theory, writing structure, character creation & development and acting verve.

Perosnally I feel that Joss and Tim (Minear) wanted a show that would try to be as accurate to the logic and physics of both space travel and space interaction as possible. The greatest example being the Kubrick-ian decision that there would be no sound in the space (ala "2001: A Space Odyssey" and, of course, real life). Yet at the same time, if it really came down to a choice of logic or story, story would always win out in the end. And that's simply Joss. That's part of what makes him the popular storyteller that he is. The story always comes first.

So in reguard to whether or not to nitpick over the big details, I prefer to pass on that kind of stuff. Nothin' against the people that do get hung up on those. But I just prefer the telling of the tale. I mean the abriviated word fiction plays just as big a part in the equation as the word science does.


"Yeah, grenades cost extra."

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Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:25 PM

GIXXER


CLJo

Very nice Babylon 5 collection!

Fondly remember the Star Furies. Original and best. All that turning on a sixpence (or a dime if you prefer). Never really saw much of those radical 3-D moves before B5 or much again until the New Battlestar Galactica.

The old BSG betrayed the reason the Cylons were never going to win. Always having to do Split-S dives? They should really have ditched carburettors long ago.

Fuel injection is far superior for combat, and some sort of non-petrol based powerplant might be a tad more suitable out in the black.

Hang on. I appear to be talking about proper physics and chemistry in connection with a work of fiction. Wow, it's really easy to get seduced into The Slashdot Way...

G



633 Squadron.

Now you've got the theme tune running through your head, you can't get rid of it...

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Monday, November 28, 2005 12:24 PM

MATTIE


It's nice to know that there are people out there that, like me, totally missed this amazing show on television, but were able to find the movie.
I went to see Serenity on a date and I must admit that I was extremely skeptical about going to see it at first. When I walked out of the theatre I was confused, but entertained none the less.
I came home and read all of the Entertainment Weekly articles I could find about it and two days later I bought the Firefly DVD's. I HAD to know what this was all about.
Now I wish that I hadn't indulged in my curiosity because I am addicted to this show! Words like "shiny" and "gorammit"(spelling?), as well as the phrase "wacky fun" have crept into my everyday vernacular and no one around me understands where I'm coming from.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm absolutley NOT complaining. I can't believe that Fox canceled Firefly! Although, if they hadn't I wouldn't be writing this.

AMMattie

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