Buffy; Seasons 4-7 by DaveB

BUFFYVERSE

Buffy; Seasons 4-7

POSTED BY: DAVEB
UPDATED: Friday, January 30, 2004 07:38
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VIEWED: 4664
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Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:48 AM

Why do most Buffy fans have a problem with Buffy: The College Years (if you want to call it that)? Season 2 will always be my favourite but I love season 6 and 7 and season 4 was great fun (number 5 is my least favourite).

Season 4. Ok so Angel and Cordelia left so some fans might have been unhappy about that, which I can understand but it was right for the show. Would you have wanted the Buffy/Angel relationship to go stale (which it was getting by the end of season 3)? Also it gave us another great Joss Whedon show so I have no complaints. I know the show felt completely different as the whole gang went to college and grew further apart, meeting new people but this is exactly what happens when you go to college (believe me I know). The gang becoming further apart but stronger for it in the end was superb and very well written. However the best element of season 4 was the Willow/Tara relationship, which was moving and perfectly written and acting. It never felt forced and or done to be contraversal. IMO its the most convincing relationship Joss Whedon and the other writers have come up with. Involving the military was a stroke of genius, with the idea that this huge government funded organisation ultimatly failing but a 5-foot 7-stone girl keeping on going was superb. It made sense as well, as surly the goverenment would have found out about demons and tried to harness the power. Wisely Whedon doesn't turn it into a satire with multiply themes of how the govenment suck (its all about hw it effects the characters).

Season 5. Now this is my least favourite year of Buffy. It felt to linear and has the least interesting villian in Buffy's seven years. However there's plenty to enjoy, Spike's love for Buffy being a particular highlight and 'Fool For Love' being one of the best episodes ever. Other stand out episode were 'Family', 'The Body' and 'The Gift'. The Dawn element was interesting as well (just a shame they couldn't find much for her to do latter on) and I felt Michelle Tranctenberg was great.

Season 6. The best year since season 2. Brilliant in every respect (although its gets a bit crap in the middle). I found a ridicious review saying it lacked the irony featured in the previous years. Buffy finding comfort in the thing she hates the most, Willow the cutest and kindest person in the 'verse nearly destorying the world and Xander (the one without any 'super powers') saving the world. Irony in buckets IMO. The character arcs were superb as well, Buffy's being the most interesting and eventainly finding she has a purpose and wanting to help her sister. Amber Benson proved she has a great acting range and frequently outshining everyone else. The range of brilliant episodes is better than any other season, 'Once More, With Feeling', 'Tabula Rasa', 'Normal Again', 'Smashed', 'Bargaining', 'After Life' and the final four episodes. 'Smashed' features one of the best and sexiest scenes ever in Buffy (you know the one), very powerful as well. I know people complained it was too dark as well. Good. Buffy died the previous year and it needed to be dark, the characters going though hell and back but finding light at the end of the tunnel (Joss Whedon's shows have always been optimistic). Giles did leave a huge gap but that came across in the characters lives. As soon as he left everthing feel apart in their lives and when he came back things turned out ok.

Season 7. Great story and a fantastic story arc but a lack of charactisation for some characters made this season great fun but lacking at times. Still it has way more characterisation than most shows so its not all bad. Nathon Fillion makes a great villian and James Masters shows what a great range he has.

Can't be bothered to write anymore but I will be happy to discuss any disagreements anyone has.

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Friday, January 23, 2004 2:29 AM

IDEFIX

I would have to agree with you.

I so often read that S6 and S7 where bad or that anything after S3 was bad or whatever. I am no long time fan I just happen to love Firefly and I had nothing else to do so I loaned me S1-5 on DVD from someone and downloaded S6 and 7. and I watched it all in one go. took me two months or so and I really liked every season, not every EP but that wasn't to be expected.

there are some characters that one likes more and others that one likes less and that's also to be expected. I believe some people have let themselves be too close to it and cling to what they thought was best for Buffy. so when Angel went away all the B/A fans thought it had to go down from there on and Riley was never a replacement and everything changed in the show and they decided it was for the worst and so all was bad from then on.

when Giles left it was the same again for other people I think. I likes B/A and believe they are soulmates of a kind but it wouldn't work so going was the right choice for Angel and it was ultimately good for Buffy. I also believe that Buffy and Giles would make a good couple because of his obvious devotion for her and her dependence on him. but it was too much dependence and too little love so he had to go or at least it made some sense. and when you look at what Buffy became in the end it was ultimately good for her too. she's stronger on her own even if she makes mistakes.

I think what ultimately made the show a geat show was exactly the thing so many people seem to hate about this or that season. it changed. every season there was a new step to be taken. new roads opened - others closed. it wasn't the same as last year all over again it was something new.

I think I liked S4 the least becasue Riley got on my nerves. I really didn't need to see another Buffy/Riles sex scene ever again and they did it over and over and over. but I know that that's just because he was not my type and even if I'm not fixed on any one partner for Buffy there are limits. Riley is the limit but I know from my own life and experience in general that Riley was the right boy at the right time for Buffy I just didn't want to see so much of the pseudo passion. it's sad to watch even if it's healing for a person in love with the wrong partner.

and to close the circle of Buffy's men: Spike is ok with me too, he can be quite adorable in his bad boy ways, and he sure is hot. I always love the bad boy if there is something lovable in him. and there's lot's of it in Spike even if he has his own ways of showing it.

and then there's always been Willow and Xander, and whatever they were up to. I really loved Willow going bad in S6. she was going in that direction for so long it had to hit bottom sometime and it did with a big bang. and I even loved Xander realising that he wasn't ready to be married. it fit. he was just a big boy trying to grow up fast because the situation called for it. and it didn't really work like that.

I even loved seeing Buffy slam that door in Giles' face at the end of S7. he had been her ancor forever and then he decided to cut her loose and she learned to stand on her own two feet just as he had asked her to. when he came back she had to believe in herself and her decisions first and above all else or it would all have been in vain. she knew Spike and believed in him being an asset and not a threat. who was Giles to decide otherwise? he had just come back and was just seeing another vampire in love with Buffy.

I think flexibility and open-mindedness are the keys to loving all seasons of Buffy. it is a journey with very differnet roads and directions but she arrived where she needed to be: a strong woman ready to face the world.

Idefix

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Friday, January 23, 2004 11:18 AM

SHAMBLEAU

Just adding my two cents on the last four seasons. I liked 'em, tho S7 not so much. The fans on the boards can be pretty vocal, but I'm not sure "most fans didn't think much of the last seasons.

shambleau

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 7:08 AM

LOKI

IMO buffy only got better and better
all the seasons are great, and all for different reasons
in terms of overall quality i think season 7 has the biggest 'everybody being at the top of their game-iness' factor

"you can't hope to grasp the source of our power"

Loki

perpetually becoming

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Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:49 AM

KURUKAMI

Personally, I liked the first two-thirds or so of S7... right up until the point where Buffy tried to get all serious and general-y. Right around there, despite Caleb being a fantastic villain and the presence of Faith, and Wood, and all the supporting cast, I wasn't drawn in as strongly. Primarily, that's because the character of Buffy really stopped being very sympathetic and turned into a humorless, arrogant "my way or the highway" twit. Say what you like about her supposed turnaround in "End of Days", but to my eyes she remained an unsympathetic character through the end, and I wasn't sorry to bid her goodbye.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Tuesday, January 27, 2004 7:27 AM

KALATHENA

Season 4: Didn't care much for it the first time I saw it, but the tapes I borrowed had some critical episodes missing. When I re-watched after the dvd's came out, I loved it. I remember my own early college years and could truly relate to a lot of the Scoob's issues. I snickered at the portrayal of casual sex being such a sad and personally damaging thing, but that's just one minor bit out of a lot of good stuff. I was happy that Angel was gone, and I loved the way Riley was written. No more angst-ridden, love-makes-you-hurt bs that everyone else seemed to love about the Buffy/Angel relationship. I was so ready to move on from the teenage crush to a real relationship with real issues. And they brought back Spike!

Season 5: One of their absolute best years. More serious than 3, but overall, an exceptional plot. I did not like that early on they chose to say that angst-ridden teen love is superior to an adult relationship (the whole reason that Riley left; yes, Buffy loved him, but in a grown-up way so that just won't do for prime time television) but once that was over, I enjoyed it. I had a hard time buying into the whole Byzantine knights thing, but the ending was very satisfying, the last of the "team efforts" to resolve the major conflicts. I know everyone else hates it, too, but "Buffy vs. Dracula" was my favorite season opener. It was just so corny and fun.

Season 6: Individual episodes in this season were phenomenal. I had so much respect for Willow taking it upon herself to bring Buffy back. That's what witches do: Make the tough calls, do what's necessary, and end up being the scape-goats as reward. It was cool to see Buffy's fling with Spike, but I was a bit sad that it ruined the wonderful bro/sis thing he had going on with Dawn in Season 5. I will *never* forgive them for building up Xander over three years and ripping him apart in a 45 minute TV-cliche "Where's the groom?" wedding episode. Badly written, badly thought out. If you say "But they were deconstructing his character..." then you don't know what "deconstruction" is. Deconstruction is what writers do when they run out of good ideas.

Still on Season 6, but we need a para break. Warren as villain was awesome. How do you top a god? You don't. You pick a human. Good choice. Why they had to do good-guy-goes-bad for the third time, however, I don't know. They'd done it to Angel and Faith already and it was just redundant to do it with Willow. It also would have been a much more compelling story to stick with it being a struggle with power than copping out and suddenly turning it into an addiction.

I did NOT like how dramatically they changed Spike in this season. Not the soul-getting thing; that was fine, but the whole not caring how Buffy felt bugged me. This is *not* the kind of lover Spike has been in the past. Remember when he was with Drusilla? If Dru got unahppy about something, people DIED. Period. Throughout this season, though, Spike didn't give a rats ass whether Buffy was happy or not and there was no explanation as to why this dramatic change in his character took place.

It is nice that for the last 2 seasons that Buffy was able to keep her pristine Palladin-like qualities by having Giles and Willow around to do her dirty work, don't you think?

Season 7: My least favorite. Untouchable villains are always rediculous. They are another example of writers running out of ideas. The plague of the comic book writer is falling into the "let's one-up ourselves!" trap. Buffy writers did this by bringing back The First and creating the UberVamps. Just silly ideas.

The ending to this season was the least satisfying. Instead of a team effort we have weapons and medallions falling from the sky so the enemy can be defeated. There was a lot of cheating going on with the writing, too. When your audience is unaware of what your point of view character is doing or saying, it's cheating. You can keep information from your audience, but again, if your POV character knows it, your audience should know it.

There are a few eps here and there in S6 & S7 that I doubt I'll watch again (Hell's Bell's) but I know I'll want the dvd sets. They were still decent television even though the writing got sloppier.

--Kala

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Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:42 AM

LORDJ

To add my two cents on the original question I think most of the arguments (certainly excepting the ones featured above, esp. by Kala) that say 4-7 suck (including SMGs) are essentially based on a different view of TV than Joss et. al. have; major, significant things changed every year so the show could go different places and say different things about them.

Change is the enemy of successful (i.e. ratings) TV; people come back not even because things are good (viz. current season of Friends, last several of Law and Order) but because they continue to get what they expect. Networks have finally figured this out (although it took reality TV to really drive this home), thus the spinoff (3 and counting of Law and Order and 2 and counting of CSI, etc.). Buffy's ratings decline from season 3 on is a case in point also.

I came in with season 4, have watched them all on DVD; I thought season 6 was extraordinarily brave TV that was painful to watch but had some of the deepest, most real emotional scenes of any TV show. Season 7 I though the tension between the standalone eps and the overarching story made the whole not as good as previous seasons.

I disagree with Kala, tho, that the writers were taking shortcuts etc.; I think the way they resolved the Slayer mythos was great, balanced a lot of complex issues, finally ripped open the tension in the Slayer between female empowerment and male control in a compelling way. And the secret weapon ultimately had less to do with the victory (unleashing the power of the Slayers was more important) than what the weapon symbolized (Buffy being right about the nature of the struggle).

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Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:49 AM

KALATHENA

Quote:
I disagree with Kala, tho, that the writers were taking shortcuts etc.; I think the way they resolved the Slayer mythos was great, balanced a lot of complex issues, finally ripped open the tension in the Slayer between female empowerment and male control in a compelling way.

Now see, to me that just came off as yet another Marti Noxon "all male power is rape" motiff. Yes, there was a lot of tension there and I really did enjoy how that power was ultimately taken away from the Watchers. The "every girl" speech was one of the most moving monologues I've ever seen on television.

But the male power = rape is not new to girl-power stories nor even new to Buffy. It had been done. Over and over again. Yes, it's true that sometimes power does manifest like that, but to have it repeated incessantly left me with a feeling that the writers felt it was the *only* form of male power.

Quote:
And the secret weapon ultimately had less to do with the victory (unleashing the power of the Slayers was more important) than what the weapon symbolized (Buffy being right about the nature of the struggle).

Unleashing the power of the Slayers was very important to character development, critical actually, particularly to Buffy. That I would completely agree with. It was not, however, the least bit essential to the plot resolution. Spike could've walked in there himself and the place still would have imploded. Considering the extent of the implosion he could've stood ten miles away and still got the job done. Sloppy, sloppy plotting.

HOWEVER, if I had to choose one and forgo the other, I would still choose the way they did it. I pick good character development over plot design every time, which is why I never read Piers Anthony and still love Buffy.

--Kala

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Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:03 PM

LENNIER

I think that Buffy didn't even begin to be artistically serious and 'perfectly executed' (on all levels---acting, cinemtography, meaningful use of colour palette, pacing, editing, whatever),
until season 3, and it didn't really start firing on all engines until season 4 (with season 5 and 6 being about equal, though with drastically different styles and themes, which I think is what caused problems with the fans). I think it had great ideas in the first two seasons, but it didn't really perfect itself until season 4,
nor did its characters take on that infinite-dimensional complexity or its visuals take on their stunning richness until season 4
and beyond. Even thematically, it didn't really develop a single coherent idea across a full season until season 4, and it consistently and surprisingly managed to build on this in season 5 and 6, something that has basically never been done in american tv. (well, B5 did manage some of this, though not in as focused a fashion, which is actually kind of cool, but is not what I'm talking about here; season 1 of Millennium managed this, but only for one season). note: here by 'idea', I don't mean a plot idea ...I mean the issues being discussed episode by episode, how they are communicated by the narrative and visuals etc.,
and how consistently they build from episode to episode to form a group of 'thesis statements' that go somewhere across the season.

Also, anyone who uses the term 'sloppy plotting' doesn't really understand what Buffy (OR Firefly) is about or why joss makes it. The impressive aspect of his writing is that he goes for the emotional reality and the thematic reality, and makes it more coherent than we've ever seen in television, which he accomplishes by 'sacrificing' plot realism (or finding ways to modify it through all sorts of devices, such as a musical demon etc. ...but by the later seasons, I think all understanding fans have realized that the surface reality of the show is not the point, and debates about how much sense things make logistically are beside the point. Buffy is poetry, and pure film, and self-expression, NOT science ...and a work of art doesn't need classical ideas of 'good storytelling' to be brilliant and meaningful ...in fact Buffy prooves that classical ideas of storytelling often get in the way of true emotional expression, or even of expressing what reality really feels like, and they certainly get in the way of the natural potentials of film or even theatre, potentials that Buffy has exploited and energized to their fullest.
...and all that stuff is what Buffy didn't begin to really tap into until the end of season 3, and finally took to their extremes in season 4-6).

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Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:15 PM

FIREFLYFANATIC

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Wednesday, January 28, 2004 1:56 AM

KALATHENA

Lennier,

I completely agree with your thoughts about Buffy being the most thematically developed television series. You are right; the over-arcing themes did not truly develop until the later seasons.

There are many works out there in literature that have been extremely successful by sacrificing plot to theme. James Joyce leaps to mind. Some say he was brilliant; others, like me, don't care much for "twenty agonizing minutes inside my head" stories.

My almost decade and a half of being married to an author has trained me to look critically at books, movies, television, etc. I think I may be misunderstood here. Just because one part of a text is weak, does not mean that other areas of it cannot be brilliant. One of my favorite novels is GONE WITH THE WIND. I love it to death, but I am also very aware that it's racism in inexcusable and that it's ending is far too abrupt. But as a die-hard, card carrying liberal, I treasure its themes of the horrors of war and those willing to adapt and change are the ones who will survive and thrive.

I feel the same way about the latter seasons of Buffy. The technicality of the writing was off, particularly in S7, not so much in S6. But yes, the themes were unmistakable. Not always the message I wanted to hear, such as every evil witch just needs the unconditional love of a simple carpenter to be saved (pretty scary coming from an athiest...), but the themes and messages are to be marveled at.

--Kala

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Wednesday, January 28, 2004 5:42 PM

ARAWAEN

When I first saw season 4, it was followed by Angel season 1. My preference for Angel and Cordy biased my initial viewing. Aftering seeing season 4 again on FX and then on DVD I didn't find it any less powerful than season 2 or 3.

I think that the adjustment period for all the changes was a little abrupt. It was also hard to top the Mayor and Faith as villians.

My only real season 4 complaint now is the total lack of transition of Willow to her homosexuality. I don't have a problem with her 'becoming' or 'realizing' that she was gay (how it works exactly I don't know and could never say) but I feel that inner turmoil and self-doubt would be a part of the process and I never saw that on the screen.

Season five, despite having some really great episodes, has never appealed to me that much. Don't think it was bad just average for the most part with a couple of exceptional episodes.

Season six I loved. Some people hate it because it was dark and depressing, I am a down-beat kind of guy, so it struck a chord.

Season seven started strong in my mind and then fizzled. While it wasn't the first time they have used deus ex machina, it seemed the most obvious. 'The First' in my mind should always have been an intelligent super-villian that gets people to turn on each other or fall to self-doubt. It should have been sneaky, mean and very, very clever. The goal of 'the First' never seemed clear nor did its approach to Buffy make sense in my mind.

Arawaen

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Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:52 AM

LORDJ

Kala--a decade and a half? I'm very, very sorry

I wasn't referring to the power as rape metaphor of the revelations of the making of the initial slayer; to me the notion that the power of the slayer was needlessly limited to one girl in all the world is also about the way that social structures act to restrain individuals in the name of rationality etc., as a mask for maintaining dominance. (And as I recently saw a link to yet another feminist critique of Buffy as a show privileging the male gaze etc. by someone who did not follow the show I am glad of this resolution).

And of course you're right about Spike! Ach! I didn't think of that for some reason.

And the point about Buffy finding a theme at season 4 is a really good and interesting one!

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Friday, January 30, 2004 1:40 AM

KALATHENA

Heh heh, no need to apologize. It does have its advantages. He's *very* imaginative. And he makes cookies.

Yes, the soial structure breakdown was awesome. I had the opportunity to re-watch the finale at WisCon last May, which is a feminist sci-fi con in Madison, Wisconsin. There was barely a dry eye in the room during Buffy's "every girl" speech. To me, that segment said very loudly that "We cannot succeed by your rules; your rules, therefore will not apply to us." This is usually my way of thinking when I confront unnecessary social constraints.

--Kala

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Friday, January 30, 2004 5:29 AM

KALATHENA

One more quick thing...

It's amazing how quick some feminists are to judge Buffy exclusively on what the actors look like. It's the same way they reacted to 7 of 9 on Voyager. While I was never a big Voyager fan, 7 was one of the best developed characters the ST franchise has ever explored.

Fear not, however, Buffy is HUGE among WisCon goers. We generally love the show and this is the con where they present the Tiptree awards. Named after James Tiptree, this award is given annually to the work of science fiction or fantasy that has the most innovative way of presenting gender issues.

If you ever get a chance to go to Wisconsin over Memorial Day weekend, I would highly reccommend this convention.

--Kala

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Friday, January 30, 2004 7:14 AM

LORDJ

Although I am an academic (and a feminist!) I have been in general really disappointed with the MANY academic treatments of Buffy; with rare exceptions they are written by people who do not watch entire seasons etc. and are as a result have little sense of the larger context of the moments they analyze.

WisCon sounds fun! We live in Central Illinois so it wouldn't be that far to go, and both my wife and I are into scifi etc. Hm.

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Friday, January 30, 2004 7:38 AM

KALATHENA

LordJ, you absolutely should. It is an AWESOME con. The first year I went I got to see an incredible presentation on Wonder Woman. The woman presenting pointed out that the very earliest years of the WW comic were extremely pro-feminist, especially for the time(1940s). It went downhill in the 70's and with George Perez coming on the the 80's got much closer to the original concept.

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