BUFFYVERSE

"Chosen" (Buffy Finale) **SPOILERS**

POSTED BY: MELEE
UPDATED: Sunday, June 1, 2003 11:21
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VIEWED: 10591
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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 3:33 PM

MELEE


*sigh* I can't believe it's over!

Thoughts:

-Dungeons and Dragons, HEE!

-Spike's death might have been a teensy bit more effective if I didn't know his name is on the credits for Angel next season.

-AUG! *screams in horror* NOO! ANYA! *insert long string of obscure colorful profanity in several languages* I knew it was coming, but I wouldn't believe it! NONONONONO! Not my Anya! Poor Xander... and they were making up! They were gonna be Anya and Xander again!(maybe anyways... just let me suffer my happy dilusions for a minute, kay?) I need to cry or kill something now.

Methinks perhaps I should not have eaten so much pie.


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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 3:51 PM

SERENITYVALLEY


My thoughts:

I kinda knew Anya was gonna get it. Poor Anya. The bunny thing was funny though. As for Spike, hearing about him on Angel, his death was a total shock. *confused*

Here's something I found really deep compared to the ending. Remember when they all go into the school and go their separate ways and only four people are left in the hallway. Who are they? The only four characters left from EPISODE ONE! I found it very symbolic expecially when they started talking. They said all the same sort of stuff they said in the first season. Then when they started walking together, and one by one they left until only Buffy was left. That was symbolic too. Whew!

Okay, what was up with Spike's dream? I didn't hear it very well. It kinda sounded like something about drowning in footwear? That can't be right.

I guess I was kinda expecting the ending to have more inpact as far as who people become. You know, going back to life and all. I think the last episode of season two was more heart wrenching.

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" -Wash
"I told him to sit down," -Simon

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 4:17 PM

MAGUINAN


I was really confused about the whole spike dying/moving to L.A. thing. Great graphic, confusing consequences. I have some speculation, but I'm witholding it at present.

----------------
Is it a really evil doorstop?

P.S. That drawing of Angel was absolutely hysterical!

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 4:39 PM

SLOWSMURF


I think we got spoiled by all his previous good season enders. Normal series don't really "conclude" it EVERY season like he did on buffy. That makes it hard to be really suprised when its the true end.

Still, I really liked it. After seeing the white haired willow in the preview I "knew" she was the one who was going to get the ammulet thing, so having spike get it was a nice suprise(as was him dying)

Why did anya have to die now? Of all the characters who could have died...why her...?

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 4:57 PM

CAPTBAGGYTROUSERS


Quote:

SERENITYVALLEY
Here's something I found really deep compared to the ending. Remember when they all go into the school and go their separate ways and only four people are left in the hallway. Who are they? The only four characters left from EPISODE ONE! I found it very symbolic expecially when they started talking.



It was not only that, but a play on the end of the first episode! Ah, closure!

I was very, very satisfied. The montage of new potentials waking up to their power... Oh, yeah. I got chills.

Thanks Joss, Mutant Enemy, et al. As Willow said "That was nifty!"

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 5:17 PM

JONSP


Quote:

Okay, what was up with Spike's dream? I didn't hear it very well. It kinda sounded like something about drowning in footwear? That can't be right.



Cool Whip. He was drowning in Cool Whip.

I'm tempted to look for some clever meaning. But I think he was just dreaming about ... well, drowning in Cool Whip. After all, who doesn't sometimes?

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:04 PM

TOLMEK


Nice ending. Buffy got something she's always wanted. She's no longer alone. Though, I suspect it will only be that way until the last one of those awakened by Willow's magicking dies. Then, the next will awaken and the pattern begins anew with only one Slayer.

And, what a way to end a series. Just eradicate the place where it happened. "There's another one in Cleveland. Smaller, though."

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:04 PM

TOLMEK


*sigh* Double posted...

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:10 PM

JONSP


Quote:

Originally posted by Tolmek:
Nice ending. Buffy got something she's always wanted. She's no longer alone. Though, I suspect it will only be that way until the last one of those awakened by Willow's magicking dies. Then, the next will awaken and the pattern begins anew with only one Slayer.



I have to rewatch it to be sure, but from the way they were talking at the end, it sounds as if Willow permanently changed the Slayer legacy. From now on, there are no potential Slayers. All future Chosen will be full Slayers from the moment they're ... well, chosen, whenever that occurs. Birth, puberty, whatever.

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:14 PM

SLOWSMURF


I agree. The way they were talking, Willow used her insane power to change the magic forever, not awaken the current potentials. That one girl was pretty young, so prehaps they're chosen at birth?

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:30 PM

MERLINDREA


I have to say, I really really liked it - it was a very satisfying ending for a great show. Buffy was always about a strong female leader, about empowering women and now they have done it - every potential has the full slayer powers! That really matched the whole theme. Just because some old men decided that only one at the same time can have the powers does not mean the girls will accept that! I really liked that line

Guess there will be nothing left to do for Angel :-)

I'm glad they didn't kill off Buffy. Not because she wouldn't be able to do guest appearances (well, Spike got dusted and he will appear on Angel, or was that all fake to get us confused????), but because she already died twice, so whats the point?

But I was really shocked and saddened about Anya. Xander didn't even find her! She just died alone... very very sad. I will miss her.

Merl

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:31 PM

KOBAYASHI


Anybody think that was a Kaylee line coming from Willow after she empowered all the potentials... "That was Spiffy" (or whatever it was she said)... sounded just like my Kaylee.

Made me smile is all.

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:39 PM

TOLMEK


Quote:

Originally posted by JonSP:
Quote:

Originally posted by Tolmek:
Nice ending. Buffy got something she's always wanted. She's no longer alone. Though, I suspect it will only be that way until the last one of those awakened by Willow's magicking dies. Then, the next will awaken and the pattern begins anew with only one Slayer.



I have to rewatch it to be sure, but from the way they were talking at the end, it sounds as if Willow permanently changed the Slayer legacy. From now on, there are no potential Slayers. All future Chosen will be full Slayers from the moment they're ... well, chosen, whenever that occurs. Birth, puberty, whatever.



So, where does that put "Fray"? It was my understanding there was only the one Slayer in that series. I could be wrong. I haven't read much of it.

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:53 PM

JONSP


Quote:

Originally posted by Tolmek:
Quote:

Originally posted by JonSP:
Quote:

Originally posted by Tolmek:
Nice ending. Buffy got something she's always wanted. She's no longer alone. Though, I suspect it will only be that way until the last one of those awakened by Willow's magicking dies. Then, the next will awaken and the pattern begins anew with only one Slayer.



I have to rewatch it to be sure, but from the way they were talking at the end, it sounds as if Willow permanently changed the Slayer legacy. From now on, there are no potential Slayers. All future Chosen will be full Slayers from the moment they're ... well, chosen, whenever that occurs. Birth, puberty, whatever.



So, where does that put "Fray"? It was my understanding there was only the one Slayer in that series. I could be wrong. I haven't read much of it.



That puts "Fray" as being written before this season.

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 7:53 PM

CAPTBAGGYTROUSERS


(MINOR "FRAY" SPOILERS TO FOLLOW:)

I wondered about the Fray thing too... Here's my guess: I now think Fray takes place in an alternate future time where Buffy was never resurrected after the end of season 5. Joss ALWAYS has a plan! He's like Batman or something.

If I remember correctly, Fray was told the last slayer (prior to her) was in the 21st century and died closing the door on a hell dimension. Now, I always assumed this was a fakeout and that this refered to a slayer later in this century whose circumstance was similar- but not identical- to Buffy at the end of season 5. Now I'm not so sure. It's a long century yet to go, however, and a lot could still happen.

I shrieked like a little girl when I saw Fray's scythe show up on Buffy, however (and I'm a largish grown-up fellow).

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Tuesday, May 20, 2003 11:53 PM

SCAPEBABE


Quote:


And, what a way to end a series. Just eradicate the place where it happened. "There's another one in Cleveland. Smaller, though."



That's actually a shout-out to an earlier episode, 'The Wish', where in the Bizarro-Land dimension, Giles calls looking for Buffy on the phone and snaps, "Yes, I'm aware that there's a quite a bit of demonic presence in Cleveland."

Methinks Joss has something against that city! *grin*

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 12:19 AM

DRAKON


As for Spikes death and moving to LA.

Death is not the handicap it once was.

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 2:53 AM

LOSTANGEL


Funny, the only part I cried at was when Xander said,"That's my girl, always doing the stupid thing."

And to end the series as not ending the storyline has me somehow hoping that there will be more, even though I know there's nothing in the works. Then again there was a 5 year gap between the movie and the series.

I have to say that I really respect SMG's talent on the show. She really has the ability, though why she chose the Scooby Doo movie was beyond me, even though there is the link of the Scoobys on BtVS, blah, blah. Any show that can make me cry has chops, no matter how teeny bopper it might look to the unenlightened. Yes, this is Joss' world, but SMG had something to do with it too. Yes, and the rest of the cast.

I was just so sad that it's finally over, still am.

As for my thoughts on Spike, I'm thinking that he won't be Spike on Angel. He could be I-Used-To-Be-Spike-Before-The-Whole-Hellmouth-Thingy, but obviously he can't be the same guy as we've come to expect too much from JW pull a lame stunt like, "Well, I was incinerated after the destruction of Sunnydale, but I'm better now."

At least get him away from the whole 60's British Punk look.

______________________
Lost Angel

WASH: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
ZOE: We live in a space ship, dear.
WASH: So?


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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 3:02 AM

ETERNALS


I don't know, they resurrected both Darla and Buffy, and Darla was dust. Might be a "Poof, look who's back."

I loved the fact that the scoobies acted like the old scoobies. The "The world is doomed" quote is right exactly out of the first episode, and to me was a perfect quote.


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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 4:55 AM

SERENITYVALLEY


Whoa hey now, where did you hear about this Fray person? This slips my memory. Um, explain?

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" -Wash
"I told him to sit down," -Simon

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 5:00 AM

HJERMSTED


So now we have a world teaming with super strong Slayer girls/women of all ages (but no Watchers Council to train them)

AND

Angel in charge of a major corporation specializing in making the world safe from demons and monsters of ill will.

I see one direction the Buffyverse can go in the new look Angel...

mattro

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 5:08 AM

HOTFORKAYLEE


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityValley:
Whoa hey now, where did you hear about this Fray person? This slips my memory. Um, explain?



Fray is a comic book series set in the future. Issue 7 just came out. I just heard about it myself and have since gotten them all but haven't yet read them so I can't tell you too much more yet.

As for Spike, Angel's team is in charge of the L.A. branch only. I was thinking maybe the corporation will bring back Spike to screw with Angel, you know they won't let Angel just live out a happy existence. They already did him a favor with Conner so maybe they will bring Spike back.

I also liked what you said on the other thread ""the vampire with a soul will become human"? It didn't say it was the same vampire as the one with a son." So I guess we just have to wait and see.


Quote:

"You know, Vir, you have what the Earthers call a 'negative personality'."
"No I don't."
"There, you see?"



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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 5:13 AM

SERENITYVALLEY


Yeah, there's another Wolfram and Hart in New York and I believe one in Paris, London, and Cario? Is that right? That's what I remember. They're still evil, aren't they?

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" -Wash
"I told him to sit down," -Simon

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 6:36 AM

CAPTBAGGYTROUSERS


Hate to derail the thread again...

"Fray" is a comic book about a slayer several hundred years in the future in a time when there have been no vampires (and no slayers) in ages.

Ordinarily comic tie-ins interest me not a jot, but Joss wrote this one, making it more, well, good. As mentioned above, seven of the proposed eight issues have been published so far. Supposedly the eigth comes out in June.

I'd also recommend a comic called "Tales of the Slayers" which is several short stories by Buffy writers, bookended by two Joss stories about the first slayer and Fray, respectively. Good stuff.

Sorry. Back to the final Buffy.

My choke-back-a-tear moment came when in the Potentials Awakened montage and in particular the girl who caught the hand that was about to hit her. Just beautiful

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 8:27 AM

NONOLUNA


Thought I heard Nifty...?

I loved it...all of it...it was great...wish there were more but then again, I'm glad it ended on a high note...:-)

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 8:59 AM

HJERMSTED


Quote:

"Fray" is a comic book about a slayer several hundred years in the future in a time when there have been no vampires (and no slayers) in ages.


I love Fray. Typical Whedon brilliance albeit in a different creative medium.

For awhile after last night's BTVS finale, I thought the dots connecting the BTVS world we know to the Slayer world of Fray had somehow been tampered with. However, I now believe the reason why there are no vampires (for a time) hundreds of years in the future is thanks to there being hundreds (if not thousands) of Slayers in the 'here and now' of the Buffyverse.

Of course, the 'last Slayer' aspect of all this (once hinted to be Buffy) will have to be dealt with at some point, but the more Slayers = fewer vampires equation seems sound to me.

Can't wait for Joss to bring us more tales from the Buffyverse after his long deserved vacation!

Another website speculates that all the new Slayers may face futures akin to the X-Men comics. Can you imagine the Slayer Registration Act?

Have fun!

mattro

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 9:16 AM

ILIKESTRAWBERRIES


Also in the aforementioned 'Tales of the Slayers' is a short story by Amber Benson(Tara).

And while we're talking X-men, can't you just see Giles tapping into the Watcher Council's bank account and setting up a Slayer School for the Gifted. Dawn, Xander, & Andrew can teach demon-y stuff, Wood can teach self-defense with Faith, & Giles can have the mother-of-all libraries. Buffy can finally relax. (ok that was a glimse into what ran through my head post-show).

To sum up,if I learned anything last night, it was that all girls have the power to make a difference, oh . . . and I'll never doubt Joss again!

Now all I need is some Firefly action on DVD!

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:58 AM

RIVERSIDE


I loved the finale. It was sad that Anya died, but I think all our Scoobies did real good. ;)
The end had a beautiful The End is only the Dawning of a New Age feel to me. Really one of the best show finales I've seen in a long time. I love Joss. Joss is The Man.

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 12:20 PM

ZELDA


The Fray mythology specifies that at some point in the 21st century a Slayer (never specifies that it's Buffy) removes all demons from the world. In fact, the way it's set up is that a demon army is actually raised and loose upon the earth, and a Slayer sends it back to hell and seals the portal between the worlds. (From the picture it looks like she seals it behind her.) And after she does that all magick and all demons are gone from the earth, for centuries following. The Fray storyline is about the reemergence of demons and whatnot in earth's future.

So my take on it is that it has nothing to do with the hellmouth in Sunnydale, otherwise there'd be nothing left for anyone to do on Angel. :)

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Wednesday, May 21, 2003 2:02 PM

SHAZZAI


"Drowning in footwear" is what Spike said when he woke up from the dream...

"I've got a wicked shoe craving" is what Buffy said when the original 4 were standing in the hall talking.

Coincidence?

"That was nifty" is what Willow said before falling over.

"There's another one in Cleveland..." followed by an under his breath, "Not to spoil the mood" is what Giles said standing next to the back of the bus.

Seriously, I've watched it 4 times now.

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Saturday, May 24, 2003 4:58 PM

BEOZOR


me thinks it was permanent too. but what really took me was the sudden burst of strength each slayer had. i mean, when buffy first met an uber-vamp, it kicked her ass until she sliced off his neck. Then, all of a sudden, POOF each slayer can handle 4 at a time.
and what was with Giles, Anya, and Xander? Anya went all crazy and killed TWO! She doesn't even have slayer strength! Giles saved Wood from several, and one-eyed Xander survived from one too.
I wonder if Buffy's still the strongest slayer, though... hmmm...
But on the whole, that was a good ending. Except when anya died... then Spike got all crispy, then he died too... wow... that's really sad.


I'm so scared

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Saturday, May 24, 2003 5:01 PM

BEOZOR


Tale of the Slayers? ooo..ooo. I have number one "Broken bottle of Djinn" or what not.... just thought i'd bring it up...

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Saturday, May 24, 2003 5:12 PM

BEOZOR


huh? the super scythe that buffy has belongs to Fray?!

I'm not familiar with this whole Fray person, and i had no idea she was a slayer, i thought she was just some girl who fought vamps in the future.

sorry, i havent been on this site for a long long time, and i guess i keep typing away (i think i wrote 3 messages in a row)...

would someone be kind enough to explain this whole scythe thingy, cuz it caught my interest.

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Sunday, May 25, 2003 5:31 AM

KOBAYASHI


In the Fray series the Scythe is explained as belonging to the Slayer. Not Buffy, not Faith or Melaka... but the Slayer (whoever it might be). It has been lost for hundreds of years. (I assume this means that it will have something to do with banishing all demons from this dimension.)

The final issue of Fray should be out in the next few months, then Dark Horse says there should be a graphic novel out by the end of the year.

Intersting to notice how Fray, set in the future ties in with Firefly. You can see lots of Chinese influences in the cities and backgound,etc... must be a Joss thing.

As for the Buffy Finale -

Anyone else wish Spike would stay dead? It was such a perfect ending to his story. A perfect redemtion. I'm afraid anything done in the future will taint it.

How many Slayers do you think are out there now? I've seen other forums speculating that there are now thousands. I don't think so... I think maybe 50, tops.


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Sunday, May 25, 2003 9:23 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC


I think that there was a mention that it was at least 100s of slayers now. I think that a big thing in angel could be dealing with the slayers. Not only is there nothing whatsoever that says that a slayer must be good, but there is also evidence that as tie has gone on slayers have degraded.

Look at Spike, first slayer he ate, all business, did her job, did it well. Next one, more like Buffy, more arrogant, more of a superiority trait in the attitude (I’m better than you are [insert childish taunting sounds.]) Buffy, she’s fairly arrogant, acts like it’s all a game, plays with her prey before she kills it (when was the last time she wasn’t sarcastic and insulting when killing an ordinary vampire?) Faith, not far beyond Buffy when she was at her worst, she just treated everyone the way Buffy treated the enemy, like they were less weaker (this is true) and that gave her the right to manipulate and even kill them (debatable, but I say no.)

What we do know about the slayers is that they do have blood lust, and they are quite strong. So now we have somewhere between maybe 50 and a thousand girls who are very strong, have an urge to kill, and as general trend have a quite large view of themselves as being superhuman in ways that include more than just strength (i.e. they don’t see other people as being equals or deserving of equal respect.)

You’ve got abusive relationships, it’s a fact that in most abusive relationships it’s the female that’s abusive. People don’t usually care as mush about these because it is usually emotional and psychological abuse. The accepted reason for this is because the women, or girls (depending on age) only used mental abuse is that they don’t consider themselves strong enough to physically hurt the guy they are with.

I’m not a woman hater, but so many people are being like oh that’s great, and it’s not. Giving any large group of people (regardless of gender) that much power would have horrible results. The world would writhe, and someone would have to fix it. (Angel?)

Do we really want people like Beverley Allitt, Genene Jones, Julius Fazekas, Waltraud Wagner, Lenora Perez, Filipina Narciso, Elizabeth Bathory, Velma Barfield, Nanny Doss, Anna Marie Hahn, Marie Hilley, and Dorothea Puente with super powers? (These are just some of the first few names that come up when you search for serial killers [the female ones of course]) Some of these killed hundreds, without slayer strength.

The good guys will have their hands full, so I think that it’s an interesting turn to make for the last episode.

Think of the damage. Think of the damage that 50 slayers could do.

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Sunday, May 25, 2003 9:25 AM

EMBASSY


I'm sure the bringers thinned the herd of potentials quite a bit.

Is it just me or did that little girl playing softball look just like Young River from "Safe"?

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Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:01 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Ok, I have just thoroughly freaked myself out. Like I said, I did a search to get some names of female serial killers. I did it because I thought people would think I was making it up if I didn’t have a name or two. Then I read some of the stuff, you know you mostly here about the nurse who slaughters babies, or the mother and wife who starts a family waits for the kids to grow up a little, kills them all, and then starts another family to do it again. But it gets so much more scary.

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Sunday, May 25, 2003 7:26 PM

ZELDA


On a neat side note to the scythe, there was an interview with Joss the week that Buffy ended (I think it was the one on salon.com?) where he not only specifically said that the scythe was the same one from the Fray series, but that it's the only prop that he kept after the show ended.

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Sunday, June 1, 2003 9:00 AM

NICOLA


Quote:

Originally posted by christhecynic:
I think that there was a mention that it was at least 100s of slayers now. I think that a big thing in angel could be dealing with the slayers. Not only is there nothing whatsoever that says that a slayer must be good, but there is also evidence that as tie has gone on slayers have degraded.

Look at Spike, first slayer he ate, all business, did her job, did it well. Next one, more like Buffy, more arrogant, more of a superiority trait in the attitude (I’m better than you are [insert childish taunting sounds.]) Buffy, she’s fairly arrogant, acts like it’s all a game, plays with her prey before she kills it (when was the last time she wasn’t sarcastic and insulting when killing an ordinary vampire?) Faith, not far beyond Buffy when she was at her worst, she just treated everyone the way Buffy treated the enemy, like they were less weaker (this is true) and that gave her the right to manipulate and even kill them (debatable, but I say no.)

What we do know about the slayers is that they do have blood lust, and they are quite strong. So now we have somewhere between maybe 50 and a thousand girls who are very strong, have an urge to kill, and as general trend have a quite large view of themselves as being superhuman in ways that include more than just strength (i.e. they don’t see other people as being equals or deserving of equal respect.)

You’ve got abusive relationships, it’s a fact that in most abusive relationships it’s the female that’s abusive. People don’t usually care as mush about these because it is usually emotional and psychological abuse. The accepted reason for this is because the women, or girls (depending on age) only used mental abuse is that they don’t consider themselves strong enough to physically hurt the guy they are with.

I’m not a woman hater, but so many people are being like oh that’s great, and it’s not. Giving any large group of people (regardless of gender) that much power would have horrible results. The world would writhe, and someone would have to fix it. (Angel?)

Do we really want people like Beverley Allitt, Genene Jones, Julius Fazekas, Waltraud Wagner, Lenora Perez, Filipina Narciso, Elizabeth Bathory, Velma Barfield, Nanny Doss, Anna Marie Hahn, Marie Hilley, and Dorothea Puente with super powers? (These are just some of the first few names that come up when you search for serial killers [the female ones of course]) Some of these killed hundreds, without slayer strength.

The good guys will have their hands full, so I think that it’s an interesting turn to make for the last episode.

Think of the damage. Think of the damage that 50 slayers could do.



Wow. You are really assuming something when you suggest that a large amount of the new 'chosen' would be bad. Holy cow.

And that the good 'guys' will have their hands full! Like the only good people left will be guys. Holy cow again.

Also, I would like to know where you get your fact that most abusive relationships are female on male abuse. I never heard that one before, and I have done some study of the issue.

I would like to have a reference for that last item if possible.

I am still gasping.

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Sunday, June 1, 2003 11:01 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Quote:

Originally posted by Nicola:
Wow. You are really assuming something when you suggest that a large amount of the new 'chosen' would be bad. Holy cow.

And that the good 'guys' will have their hands full! Like the only good people left will be guys. Holy cow again.

Also, I would like to know where you get your fact that most abusive relationships are female on male abuse. I never heard that one before, and I have done some study of the issue.

I would like to have a reference for that last item if possible.

I am still gasping.



Ok, wow. Good guys now means only males? When did the world become so sexist that the common gender inspecific term is suddenly gender specific? You want proof it’s gender inspecific, go to a girl’s only team, not just one of course-you need a random sample, and watch as the coach (a female one) calls the team members ‘guys.’ If you only do this with one or two you might not get it, but get yourself a nice spread and you will, no sex connotations at all. In the Bible Mary Magdalene is referred to as ‘he’ because traditionally in the lack of a polite gender inspecific term the male is used.

If you think that’s wrong it’s not my fault, I didn’t make the language, in fact in the creation and evolution of language it is just about a fifty-fifty spread in who makes it when talking male or female.

I stated reasons for the assumption that many, which in no way means most, of the slayers will be bad.

As for the last bit, the abusive relationships part, I see no reason to look up my sources for someone as clearly sexist as yourself. I will tell you that some (there are many sources that say this) are the people who go into middle schools, high schools, colleges and community centers to lecture people on abusive relationships. Although all of them focus primarily on males abusing females they do say that female on male abuse is more prominent, but they think it is important to stop the physical abuse first. As I said female against male abuse is primarily psychological, further most of them believe that at this point in time they are more likely to affect the lives of females than males.

Note that when I say, "all of them", I mean all of the ones that serve as sources.

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Sunday, June 1, 2003 11:21 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC


By the way

guy
n. 1. A grotesque effigy, like that of Guy Fawkes, dressed up in England on the fifth of November, the day of the Gunpowder Plot.
2. guys: Persons of either sex
3. a rope or cable that is used to brace something (especially a tent)
4. A person of odd or grotesque appearance or dress.
5. A person of queer looks or dress

And yes there is also 6. term for a youth or man

(Guy Fawkes was the 'guy' who tried to blow up the British parliament with gunpowder; thus the Gunpowder Plot.)

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Says:

guy (1)
n. A rope, cord, or cable used to steady, guide, or secure something.

tr.v. guyed, guy·ing, guys
To steady, guide, or secure with a rope, cord, or cable.

guy2
n. 1 Informal. A man; a fellow.
2 guys Informal. Persons of either sex.
3 Chiefly British. A person of odd or grotesque appearance or dress.
4 often Guy An effigy of Guy Fawkes paraded through the streets of English towns and burned on Guy Fawkes Day.

tr.v. guyed, guy·ing, guys
To hold up to ridicule; mock.

(this one must make you happy, what with the male one being number 1 of number 2)

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. does not make reference of any gender in it's list of definitions.

I hope that three is enough sources for you to believe me about the word "guy."

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