OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Dumbest Actor Will Join Stupidest Actress on Same TV Show.

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 21:33
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Wednesday, May 13, 2015 8:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


After driving CSI into the ground with his attempts to play a person who is not stupid, let alone smart, Ted Danson will jump from the sunken ship of CSI to the spinoff with Crazy Old White Wommyn Patricia Arquette.

https://ca.celebrity.yahoo.com/news/cbs-cancels-csi-crime-scene-invest
igation-star-ted-135458529.html

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Wednesday, May 13, 2015 9:27 PM

WISHIMAY


I've heard some of the dialogue on that show (Cyber) is horrid. Anyone watch it?

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Thursday, May 14, 2015 6:07 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I have been able to successfully avoid the Crazy Old White Wommyn.

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Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:26 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
I've heard some of the dialogue on that show (Cyber) is horrid. Anyone watch it?



I can't. The promos for it were horrific. David Caruso bad. At least her lines were. Spoken w/ all the conviction and believability of first reading in the morning following and all night bender from the after-after party of a Hollywood awards show.

And I can't watch James Van der beek. Not in this wreck of a show, at least. He was likable in The B in Apt 23 , playing himself, so it's almost like I know him now. I'm kinda rooting for him. He's working, so that's good, but man, this is such an awful show, I hope he's able to find work after its demise.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 14, 2015 9:24 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


I can't.



So we're in a consensus then. This show will be on to the end of frickin' time and awards out the wazoo

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Friday, May 15, 2015 3:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


I can't.



So we're in a consensus then. This show will be on to the end of frickin' time and awards out the wazoo


Yes. A good gauge of which award shows to ignore.

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Tuesday, May 26, 2015 11:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Yep. If I love it, it's doomed. That's why I stopped watching Orphan Black. 2 seasons in, and I can't watch anymore. I want it to survive.

I'm in a bit of a pickle, with Dr Who. It's on, and I still want to watch.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, July 27, 2015 9:02 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I watched CSI off and on when William Petersen was there, he is such an awesome actor. I followed him from the movie Manhunter, which is a great psychological thriller a la Silence of the Lambs. I watched mainly because of him and Marg Helgenberger, and once he left the show, after 10 years, CSI went due south.

There are rumors he's returning for the show's finale, both he and Helgenberger.
So maybe there will be some smart writing for a change, there will definitely be some intelligent and talent-laden acting.

So there's a bit of good news - the show ending it's run and Petersen making an appearence. Now all we need is for our girl Melinda Clarke to show up and the circle will be complete.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
I've heard some of the dialogue on that show (Cyber) is horrid. Anyone watch it?


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Tuesday, July 28, 2015 5:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I watched CSI off and on when William Petersen was there, he is such an awesome actor. I followed him from the movie Manhunter, which is a great psychological thriller a la Silence of the Lambs. I watched mainly because of him and Marg Helgenberger, and once he left the show, after 10 years, CSI went due south.

There are rumors he's returning for the show's finale, both he and Helgenberger.
So maybe there will be some smart writing for a change, there will definitely be some intelligent and talent-laden acting.

So there's a bit of good news - the show ending it's run and Petersen making an appearence. Now all we need is for our girl Melinda Clarke to show up and the circle will be complete.


SGG


I followed William L Petersen since To Live and Die in L.A.
Did you mean to say that Silence of the Lambs is the sequel to Manhunter? Or are you confused about that fact?
One of many reasons I loved Mulholland Falls: William L Petersen and Rob Lowe (very scarce and unpopular at that time) in their scenes to start the film and set the tone, and Melinda Clarke as well.

To be clear, none of the actors in this post are referred to in the title of thread, and I'm almost ashamed to include them under such heading - imagine the search results with such conflicting data.

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Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:50 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


No confusion here Jake, just comparing notes on great films that resonate tonally. Being that Silence was released in 1991, I would say that Manhunter (1986) was the precursor for the genre (and underappreciated for it's time). It set the tone, literally, for Silence. It is, beyond question, one of the top thrillers of our time.

Here is the movie's description as depicted on Rotten Tomatoes:

"Manhunter, a rough precursor to Silence of the Lambs (which was also based on a novel by Thomas Harris), follows an FBI agent (William Petersen) who brings maniacal killers to justice by duplicating their mindset. The agent's last case, Dr. Hannibal Lektor (played here by Brian Cox), caused his early retirement, but he reactivates himself to solve a mystery involving a killer who murders entire families. The movie, like the Thomas Harris novel, is also known as Red Dragon."

Written and directed by Michael Mann, it remains, for me, one of the scariest and suspenseful movies of all time. It was ahead of it's time, and just 5 years later Jonathan Demme directs perhaps the most well-known crime/horror movie of the modern film era - Silence. I believe it owes much to the first of it's kind, Manhunter, both from novels written by Thomas Harris. Of course, years ago, I was unaware of Manhunter's background and story development. I am much more aware now, but ultimately, I know what I like.

So yes, Silence of the Lambs is a sequel of sorts to Manhunter, they are fraternal twins in Hollywood circles. So no, I'm not confused. A couple of things come to mind:

1- It's been years since I've seen To Live and Die in LA and Mulholland Falls; I have to re-watch those for perspective and to refresh my memory

And, more importantly;

2- My mentioning of the actors, for whom I have the utmost respect, in this thread, is by no way meant to be shame-producing. I bring them into the conversation to contrast and report that some good may come shortly to TV.
Of course it depends on the writing, as has been mentioned.

As an aside, it seems to me that ever since the writer's strike that the talent level in TV writing has suffered somewhat. It seems that if a show is well written and well received that it gets cancelled, but shows, in more recent times, have been so poorly written and produced they get rewarded. To quote a favorite character of ours; "Does that seem right to you?" Rest in peace Jubal Early, I await your return with great anticipation.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I watched CSI off and on when William Petersen was there, he is such an awesome actor. I followed him from the movie Manhunter, which is a great psychological thriller a la Silence of the Lambs. I watched mainly because of him and Marg Helgenberger, and once he left the show, after 10 years, CSI went due south.

There are rumors he's returning for the show's finale, both he and Helgenberger.
So maybe there will be some smart writing for a change, there will definitely be some intelligent and talent-laden acting.

So there's a bit of good news - the show ending it's run and Petersen making an appearence. Now all we need is for our girl Melinda Clarke to show up and the circle will be complete.


SGG


I followed William L Petersen since To Live and Die in L.A.
Did you mean to say that Silence of the Lambs is the sequel to Manhunter? Or are you confused about that fact?
One of many reasons I loved Mulholland Falls: William L Petersen and Rob Lowe (very scarce and unpopular at that time) in their scenes to start the film and set the tone, and Melinda Clarke as well.

To be clear, none of the actors in this post are referred to in the title of thread, and I'm almost ashamed to include them under such heading - imagine the search results with such conflicting data.


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Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I watched CSI off and on when William Petersen was there, he is such an awesome actor. I followed him from the movie Manhunter, which is a great psychological thriller a la Silence of the Lambs. I watched mainly because of him and Marg Helgenberger, and once he left the show, after 10 years, CSI went due south.

There are rumors he's returning for the show's finale, both he and Helgenberger.
So maybe there will be some smart writing for a change, there will definitely be some intelligent and talent-laden acting.

So there's a bit of good news - the show ending it's run and Petersen making an appearence. Now all we need is for our girl Melinda Clarke to show up and the circle will be complete.


SGG


I followed William L Petersen since To Live and Die in L.A.
Did you mean to say that Silence of the Lambs is the sequel to Manhunter? Or are you confused about that fact?
One of many reasons I loved Mulholland Falls: William L Petersen and Rob Lowe (very scarce and unpopular at that time) in their scenes to start the film and set the tone, and Melinda Clarke as well.

To be clear, none of the actors in this post are referred to in the title of thread, and I'm almost ashamed to include them under such heading - imagine the search results with such conflicting data.



No confusion here Jake, just comparing notes on great films that resonate tonally. Being that Silence was released in 1991, I would say that Manhunter (1986) was the precursor for the genre (and underappreciated for it's time). It set the tone, literally, for Silence. It is, beyond question, one of the top thrillers of our time.

Here is the movie's description as depicted on Rotten Tomatoes:

"Manhunter, a rough precursor to Silence of the Lambs (which was also based on a novel by Thomas Harris), follows an FBI agent (William Petersen) who brings maniacal killers to justice by duplicating their mindset. The agent's last case, Dr. Hannibal Lektor (played here by Brian Cox), caused his early retirement, but he reactivates himself to solve a mystery involving a killer who murders entire families. The movie, like the Thomas Harris novel, is also known as Red Dragon."

Written and directed by Michael Mann, it remains, for me, one of the scariest and suspenseful movies of all time. It was ahead of it's time, and just 5 years later Jonathan Demme directs perhaps the most well-known crime/horror movie of the modern film era - Silence. I believe it owes much to the first of it's kind, Manhunter, both from novels written by Thomas Harris. Of course, years ago, I was unaware of Manhunter's background and story development. I am much more aware now, but ultimately, I know what I like.

So yes, Silence of the Lambs is a sequel of sorts to Manhunter, they are fraternal twins in Hollywood circles. So no, I'm not confused.


That is one of the worse reviews I've read (edit: the one from Rotten Tomatoes), as if they have no clue that the books are sequels, and the film based on the books are also from the same series.
They are not sequels "of sorts" unless you consider Aliens to not be a sequel of Alien. Almost all different cast, switched from horror to action genre, different form of Alien (pod to queen). Hannibal Lector is the common character threading through the books - and he didn't change much, just his circumstances, and the actor who played him.
The book for Red Dragon/Manhunter set the tone for the film. The sequel, silence, followed the tone of the first. But many others jumped in during that span.

All of these types of characters, Profilers, CSIs, NCISs, L&Os are derived from John Edward Douglas who did this groundwork alone and almost at the cost of his sanity. Read his book Mind Hunter, where the FBI so devalued this critical work that they shut down the Behavioral Sciences Unit and left it that way until they did a survey of Law Enforcement to find out what the FBI did best - they arrogantly expected to hear how their computer skills and access was best, their lawyers were best, their paperwork was best, their thuggery was best. But the only solid and consistent response they got was "that one guy that you sent us that sounded crazy but explained the crime scene to us and the profile of the perp - that guy solved our case for us."

He is also notable for a historic reason. His college work was in UW-Milwaukee. Ed Gein was held at Mendota Mental Health facility at the outskirts of Madison, bordering Westport. Douglas is the only interviewer granted access to Gein by a judge - all other requests were considered trivial or sensational, mostly from authors or reporters. Douglas' request was judged to have merit, and this is where most of all this Behavioral Science world is originated and derived from.
Quote:


A couple of things come to mind:

1- It's been years since I've seen To Live and Die in LA and Mulholland Falls; I have to re-watch those for perspective and to refresh my memory


I think Live & Die was my first Willem Dafoe notice. And don't forget to notice Dwier Brown. You may want to rewatch "To Love and Die in LA" episode of Castle as well.
If you are familiar with Ed Lauter, watch for him in Mulholland Falls. This type of appearance for an established actor was uncommon at the time, but has become more of a fad since then. And Bruce Dern was cast against type, at the time - many find that hilarious.
Quote:


And, more importantly;


As an aside, it seems to me that ever since the writer's strike that the talent level in TV writing has suffered somewhat. It seems that if a show is well written and well received that it gets cancelled, but shows, in more recent times, have been so poorly written and produced they get rewarded. To quote a favorite character of ours; "Does that seem right to you?"


SGG


Are you asking if karma is valid? If the writers got their comeuppance for their strike? If when the rest of Hollywood was trying to point out to them that they were not as critical to the profits, the writers decided to strike and prove to all that they really were not integral to the profits of Hollywood? The writers did a great job of proving how unimportant to the profit margin they were, and how Hollywood should take care to separate and compartmentalize the factors of quality vs. profit. Yes, that seems about right. It was a nice illusion to have - particularly for us, the audience to revel in - while Hollywood confused the concepts of "quality" and "profits from lowest common denominator", but the writer's strike put an end to that.

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Thursday, July 30, 2015 5:46 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Since you thought my "review" was so bad, and since your main complaint was in regard to my comment about the "sort of" sequel SOTL, well, below is a quote from IMDB. It's in answer to the question "Is SOTL a sequel to Manhunter?

"There are two schools of thought on this. One could certainly argue that The Silence of the Lambs is a sequel to Manhunter, since it features three of the same characters from Manhunter, that is, Hannibal Lecter, Jack Crawford, and Dr. Frederick Chilton (played respectively by Brian Cox, Dennis Farina, and Benjamin Hendrickson in Manhunter and Anthony Hopkins, Scott Glenn, and Anthony Heald in The Silence of the Lambs). On the other hand, Manhunter was not a successful film, which is why Dino De Laurentiis chose not to produce this film. When The Silence of the Lambs was released, it was not marketed as a sequel to Manhunter. All references from the book that mention Will "the Red Dragon" Graham have been excised from the film. The two returning cast members, Frankie Faison and Dan Butler, play different roles. It's also worth noting that in early drafts, when the producers were not sure if they could use the characters from Manhunter, Ted Tally changed those characters' names to cut all ties with Manhunter. They were eventually changed back. However, given that Tally also wrote the screenplay for Red Dragon, which featured three out of four actors returning to their roles, including Faison playing his Silence role, it is more likely that Manhunter is meant to be part of a separate continuity, while Red Dragon is meant to be a direct prequel to The Silence of the Lambs."

Here's my take on a movie sequel: Does the main character appear in the second movie? and Does the story continue?

You use the example of Alien and Aliens. Perfect! The character Ripley is both in Alien and Aliens; Aliens is a continuation of Alien. That wasn't so hard, was it now!? Of course, you may have a different take on the subject, which you have every right to have (which I have come to expect from you).

Now, in our first example, SOTL and Manhunter, you picked on a sentence at the end of my "review" that pointed out how I felt SOTL was a "sequel of sorts" (actually, you overreacted) and you proceeded to launch into a hissy fit, of sorts (you see what I did there?). Anyway, allow me to retort:

Does the main character appear in the second movie?

Although similarly themed, Will Graham, our Manhunter, does not appear in the second movie, in our case study SOTL.

Next.

Does the story continue?

Although similarly themed, we do have a new Manhunter, Clarice Starling (the story is from her point of view, quite literally), we have a different story - the hunt and capture of Buffalo Bill.

The precursor to CSI, that's where this all started.

The Connection:

What confuses you is the connection of the characters Dr. Chilton, Agent Crawford and Dr. Hannibal Lector with both films - Manhunter and SOTL.
That's why, for me, the two films have a link to one another, hence my initial thought that this is a hybrid, or "sort of" a sequel.

There are those that would call all of this so much bullshit, but that's their problem - I do not give a shyte! Each man's opinion is his own. After all, we live in a free society - do we not!

Now, you may try to dismantle my opinion, if you so choose. It matters not, for they're my thoughts on the matter and you have yours, for me there is no argument because we each believe as we do. Nothing either of us say will change the mind or heart of the other. By the way, I do see your point, but did you see mine. You picked a sentence, one, out of what I said without having mentioned the paragraphs preceding that particular comment.

No mention of "precursor" or "It set the tone" or "it owes much to the first of it's kind, Manhunter," Like little bread crumbs left behind for Hansel & Gretel, these were clues to my conclusive end statement that "sort of" is as close as it gets; "just a bit outside" "Oooooo, so close" but not quite. Of course, there's no accounting for taste.

Well, have at it there Irving!


SGG

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Thursday, July 30, 2015 6:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Since you thought my "review" was so bad,


It was the RT review, which I have clarified in the post just now. The RT review was in your quote.
Quote:


and since your main complaint was in regard to my comment about the "sort of" sequel SOTL, well, below is a quote from IMDB. It's in answer to the question "Is SOTL a sequel to Manhunter?

"There are two schools of thought on this. One could certainly argue that The Silence of the Lambs is a sequel to Manhunter, since it features three of the same characters from Manhunter, that is, Hannibal Lecter, Jack Crawford, and Dr. Frederick Chilton (played respectively by Brian Cox, Dennis Farina, and Benjamin Hendrickson in Manhunter and Anthony Hopkins, Scott Glenn, and Anthony Heald in The Silence of the Lambs). On the other hand, Manhunter was not a successful film, which is why Dino De Laurentiis chose not to produce this film. When The Silence of the Lambs was released, it was not marketed as a sequel to Manhunter. All references from the book that mention Will "the Red Dragon" Graham have been excised from the film. The two returning cast members, Frankie Faison and Dan Butler, play different roles. It's also worth noting that in early drafts, when the producers were not sure if they could use the characters from Manhunter, Ted Tally changed those characters' names to cut all ties with Manhunter. They were eventually changed back. However, given that Tally also wrote the screenplay for Red Dragon, which featured three out of four actors returning to their roles, including Faison playing his Silence role, it is more likely that Manhunter is meant to be part of a separate continuity, while Red Dragon is meant to be a direct prequel to The Silence of the Lambs."

Here's my take on a movie sequel: Does the main character appear in the second movie? and Does the story continue?

You use the example of Alien and Aliens. Perfect! The character Ripley is both in Alien and Aliens; Aliens is a continuation of Alien.


You are trying both edges of the sword now. 3 Characters are the same in the series of books from Thomas Harris, and the films that follow, so this series is not a series and no sequels are produced - yet only one character remains throughout the Alien franchise (Ripley) so it IS a series, including a sequel?
I didn't care if Zathura was not marketed as a sequel to Jumanji - I liked it far better, with a far greater cast (Josh Hutcherson, Kristen Stewart, Dax Sheppard compared to Bonnie Hunt, Dunst, and that idiot Robin). Marketing does not subvert the truth.
Quote:


Now, in our first example, SOTL and Manhunter, you picked on a sentence at the end of my "review" that pointed out how I felt SOTL was a "sequel of sorts" (actually, you overreacted) and you proceeded to launch into a hissy fit, of sorts (you see what I did there?). Anyway, allow me to retort:

Does the main character appear in the second movie?

Although similarly themed, Will Graham, our Manhunter, does not appear in the second movie, in our case study SOTL.

Next.

Does the story continue?

Although similarly themed, we do have a new Manhunter, Clarice Starling (the story is from her point of view, quite literally), we have a different story - the hunt and capture of Buffalo Bill.

The precursor to CSI, that's where this all started.

The Connection:

What confuses you is the connection of the characters Dr. Chilton, Agent Crawford and Dr. Hannibal Lector with both films - Manhunter and SOTL.
That's why, for me, the two films have a link to one another, hence my initial thought that this is a hybrid, or "sort of" a sequel.

There are those that would call all of this so much bullshit, but that's their problem - I do not give a shyte! Each man's opinion is his own. After all, we live in a free society - do we not!

Now, you may try to dismantle my opinion, if you so choose. It matters not, for they're my thoughts on the matter and you have yours, for me there is no argument because we each believe as we do. Nothing either of us say will change the mind or heart of the other. By the way, I do see your point, but did you see mine. You picked a sentence, one, out of what I said without having mentioned the paragraphs preceding that particular comment.

No mention of "precursor" or "It set the tone" or "it owes much to the first of it's kind, Manhunter," Like little bread crumbs left behind for Hansel & Gretel, these were clues to my conclusive end statement that "sort of" is as close as it gets; "just a bit outside" "Oooooo, so close" but not quite. Of course, there's no accounting for taste.

Well, have at it there Irving!


SGG


Clarice was the replacement manhunter or Mind Hunter, after the last retired. Was that not clear? Hannibal remained the same "Ed Gein" role, the source of information to solve the crimes.

Did Halloween have all the same characters return in each installment? Friday the 13th? Does this lack make them not sequels?

Sorry you took the discussion personal.
Hope you enjoyed every film listed here, thus fulfilling your time with worthwhile entertainment. Except Arquette/Danson.

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Monday, August 3, 2015 4:08 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I stand corrected, as I read back your comment regarding the RT review. So for that I'm sorry, I overreacted. I misread your comment, hence my uncalled-for response. I admit when I am wrong.

Regarding SOTL; the books are written as a series, but the movies were never marketed as a series. As a matter of fact, the movies - Manhunter and SOTL - were purposefully marketed as stand-alone films. When Orion Pictures was thinking of filming Silence, they referred to the abysmal box office of Manhunter and steered clear of marketing Silence with any connection to it's predecessor. You say that marketing does not subvert the truth, well in Hollywood it is everything. Can a film outdistance it's marketing? Of course it can, but it has to be the right film. Star Wars and 2001: A Space Odyssey come to mind.

Still though, as I have stated earlier, we will not change our beliefs by merely writing about it. I still believe that Silence is a sequel "of sorts" that far outdistanced the mother of psychological horror Manhunter.
It is part sequel, part stand alone film; a hybrid. In both films you have the lovely and talented Lector, but he's not the principal character. Will Graham and Clarice Starling are the Manhunters; it is their stories that are being told.

The Alien series is just that with Ripley, the Star Wars series has Luke Skywalker, Sherlock Holmes, Batman, Lord of the Rings - all have one central character in their respective stories.

I agree with you that Danson and Arquette are ill-suited for their roles on CSI.


SGG

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Tuesday, August 4, 2015 9:33 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


bump

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