OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Star Wars for the next generation

POSTED BY: KHAMBILO
UPDATED: Friday, May 7, 2010 05:28
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VIEWED: 2344
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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 3:25 PM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Yeah - it's a pretty unfair expectation. Very few people ever change the world. Even fewer do it more than once. Especially once they're (sorry older guys) past their prime as opposed to at their peak, and the head of a massively profitable company living a life of luxury as opposed to a hungry (literally and metaphorically) young artist trying to establish himself.

You are also comparing a man who approached the medium in a way no one had really done before, to one who was faced with revisting a style that (because of him) had become the standard in many ways.

The differences in context are huge. So, yeah, it probably was unreasonable to expect him to capture lightning in a bottle again.

Don't get me wrong - there are big problems with the prequels, and I don't think they equal the originals for the most part (I consider Sith and Jedi to be pretty close). I flat out hate most of TPM. I could go on and on about what could have/should have been changed - because, like everyone else, I imagined my own perfect prequels. But the prequels are still better and more imaginative than 90% of the big F/X driven blockbusters out there, but many people let their own, impossible to fulfill expectations, ruin their enjoyment of the things the movies did do well.

George Lucas should have handed over directing and writing Episodes I, II, and III to anybody but George Lucas. My criteria for quality in movies is always... Money Made.

For Domestic Grosses Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation at www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm
# 2 Star Wars - Director/Writer: Lucas
#13 The Empire Strikes Back - Director: Irvin Kershner, Writers: Lawrence Kasdan & Lucas
#15 Return of the Jedi - Director: Richard Marquand, Writers: Lawrence Kasdan & Lucas
#17 Raiders of the Lost Ark Director: Steven Spielberg, Writer: Lawrence Kasdan & (story by) Lucas, Philip Kaufman
#20 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace - Director/Writer: Lucas
#58 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith - Director/Writer: Lucas
#85 Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones - Director/Writer: Lucas

Since 1977, Lucas's ego and vanity have cost 20th Century Fox millions in reduced ticket sales. I think the figures conclusively indicate that the less George Lucas in a Lucas movie, the more lucre.

I just realized that Lucas hates FOX because of Firefly's cancellation; that's why he keeps directing movies for them -- to cut down their ticket sales. George Lucas is on our side in the war against Sith Lord Rupert Darth Murdoch.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 3:46 PM

NAVYSEILS


Back in my original post I never really went into what I thought of the prequels. Personally... I don't hate them as much as all fans of the original apparently should. Episode I I will rarely watch, I really dislike much of that film. Jar Jar is annoying, the film can be pretty boring, I hate that kid... Only a the moments with qui gon and obi wan really did much for me. Attack of the clones wasn't so bad, I can watch that and be reasonably entertained. Episode 3 though? I loved that movie. I don't know what it was, but I thought it was great.

I think a lot of what I enjoy about star wars is the expanded universe stuff. There's just so much there. I played a lot of Star Wars galaxies before it got ruined, the KOTOR games were pretty good, and the books. I think for our kids and our kids kids, getting into star wars is perhaps going to be less influenced by what order they see the movies in, but more by what new game or book happens to be around in their time.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 1:31 AM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
My criteria for quality in movies is always... Money Made.



So your saying that the more money a movie makes the greater the quality of that movie?
Sorry if I misunderstood but that's the way it reads.
If that's right then Transformers 2, Independance Day, Home Alone, Top Gun and several others are amogst the greatest quality movies ever made. And movies like Godfather 2, Shawshank Redemption, Magnificent Seven, Great Escape and lots of others are of a lesser quality to those listed because they didn't make as much money. Where does that put Serenity by following your criteria?

There are a lot of other factors to consider besides money.

I do agree with you though that someone else should have co-written and directed the prequels. If we remember that Lucas only directed the original Star Wars, the sequels were directed by others.



"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 2:26 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:
Quote:

Originally posted by two:
My criteria for quality in movies is always... Money Made.

So your saying that the more money a movie makes the greater the quality of that movie?
... There are a lot of other factors to consider besides money. ...

I prefer a crassly materialistic description of "success" in Hollywood. Any other criteria stinks of philosophy, which is bad for business. I'm warning you about Hollywood's products: If you're looking for the meaning of your life, you best not find it in a TV show or while watching movies (even StarWars & Serenity). Go elsewhere, unless you're a critic like Roger Ebert. Maybe the meaning of life can be found in comic books? Excuse me, Graphic Novels.

Quote:

Where does that put Serenity by following your criteria?
I already said something about Serenity and Joss Whedon - www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=42958#774121

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 3:52 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:

Why is that? I don't think it's out of line to say he changed the world with Star Wars. I bet there are plenty of people who's entire lives were changed by the originals. I don't even know if I would have become an enginerd if it weren't for star wars.


When you're a child sure you're more impressionable - but as an adult?

Quote:

Is it that far fetched to think that he could change the world again?


For us who grew up since having watched the originals yes I think it is far fetched. For kids of the generation of I, II & III there's a chance he'll inspire those kids.

Quote:

Obviously after the fact it's plain to see he didn't, but going in there was no way to know what he had in store for us.


I don't believe it was ever possible to make that kind of impression with the same generation that saw the originals. Just my opinion of course - and it's all congecture so I could very well be wrong. But in all earnest as much as I loved the originals I didn't go to watch the prequels thinking I would feel the same way I did the first time around....

But that's just my take on it. Perhaps I'm more cynical than I realise and fair play to you for holding onto that ideal Zeek. I don't mean to contradict by the way.


I'm not talking just impressions on people individually. He pretty much changed film making. He created techniques and technologies. He was an innovator.

We were handed the flaming pile of Episode I when the potential was there for something great. I haven't heard any over the top criticism IMO.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 4:07 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:
If that's right then Transformers 2, Independance Day, Home Alone, Top Gun and several others are amogst the greatest quality movies ever made.


Are you suggesting Top Gun isn't among the greatest movies ever made?

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 4:22 AM

BYTEMITE


Revvin' up your engine
Listen to her howlin' roar...
Metal under tension
Beggin' you to touch and go...

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 5:00 AM

KHAMBILO


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:

We were handed the flaming pile of Episode I when the potential was there for something great. I haven't heard any over the top criticism IMO.



Not here we haven't, but there have been comments like "George Lucas raped our childhood" (in song mind you) with the prequels. A little extreme in my opinion.

http://www.getalyric.com/mp3/lyrics/songs/hot_waffles-20993/from_ready
_to_laugh_we_don_39_t_care-46435/george_lucas_raped_our_childhood-218077
/

I echo the sentiments that Som said here. The fact remains that kids watching the new trilogy react to it much the way that we reacted to the original trilogy. My six year old cousin as only seen the prequels and absolutely loves them, and personally I'd much rather have him love I, II, and III than not like Star Wars at all, or love some nonsense drivel that Hollywood puts out with the intent of captivating child audiences.

However, I can see why loyal fans would also be upset by the prequel films, but thats only because we were spoiled with the greatness that was the original trilogy. I don't think any new star wars film could measure up. That said, they aren't that bad, with the exception of a couple of spots which I am willing to look over, but again, I can see why many can not.

And I can also see the argument for George Lucas being responsible, even though I don't think its the case. At any rate:




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Thursday, May 6, 2010 5:09 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:
Quote:

Originally posted by two:
My criteria for quality in movies is always... Money Made.

So your saying that the more money a movie makes the greater the quality of that movie?
... There are a lot of other factors to consider besides money. ...

I prefer a crassly materialistic description of "success" in Hollywood. Any other criteria stinks of philosophy, which is bad for business. I'm warning you about Hollywood's products: If you're looking for the meaning of your life, you best not find it in a TV show or while watching movies (even StarWars & Serenity). Go elsewhere, unless you're a critic like Roger Ebert. Maybe the meaning of life can be found in comic books? Excuse me, Graphic Novels.

Quote:

Where does that put Serenity by following your criteria?
I already said something about Serenity and Joss Whedon - www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=42958#774121

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two




What a very sad outlook. It's attitudes like this that ensure we get a steady stream of crap.

Films can be good AND make money. But as long as suckers keep shelling out for crap, there's no incentive for studios to try and make better product.

I feel bad for you.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 5:12 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:

I'm not talking just impressions on people individually. He pretty much changed film making. He created techniques and technologies. He was an innovator.

We were handed the flaming pile of Episode I when the potential was there for something great. I haven't heard any over the top criticism IMO.



If you don't think the "Lucas raped my childhood" critiques popular amongst the more pathetic fanboys isn't over the top - you need perspective, lad.

Besides - the question was whether the expectation for him to re-invent the wheel a second time was unreasonable. I provided many examples why..... The answer is yes.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 5:18 AM

ZEEK


Those were too flawed to bother with. James Cameron has achieved massive success and took the exact same genre to new film making levels. Showing that it is entirely possible in this day and age. Also showing success doesn't lobotomize creativity.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 5:29 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
What a very sad outlook. It's attitudes like this that ensure we get a steady stream of crap.

Films can be good AND make money. But as long as suckers keep shelling out for crap, there's no incentive for studios to try and make better product.

I feel bad for you.

I need to find a Sarcasm typeface so that people will not think of me as horrible moneygrubbing philistine. But I don't care enough to defend my artificial character called “two”.

Sarcasm ON:
Top Gun is #100 All Time Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=topgun.htm And it was produced by Jerry Bruckheimer, who knows high quality equals super loud sound track. So, hell yes! It's a truly great movie -- and grating on the ears -- wear earplugs because of the sonic booms.

I have often been moved to tears by movies. I've also been moved to tears when pulling nose hairs. Hollywood wants you to confuse commerce with art. And to believe that at least some of their products are significant. Please don't fall for that consumerist myth. Nothing Hollywood makes is significant. I'm thinking of Episodes I and II of StarWars, in particular. What a crappy pair of over-hyped movies. But, none the less, great movies because they made a great deal of money. The same can be truthfully said about Avatar.
Sarcasm OFF.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 5:42 AM

BYTEMITE


Oddly, I didn't think Avatar was that creative, story-telling wise, setting wise, theme-wise, or even creature wise.

But then I suppose if I want to argue that, I'd have to argue the same about Star Wars (obvious eastern life force themes, samurai, the farm boy hero, princess, villain, and scoundrel archetypes are all present and used in abundance).

And Firefly is historical fiction set in a dystopian sci-fi setting, and also draws upon many of the same archetypes.

So I don't think I want to argue that.

Mostly I'm just pissed off that James Cameron's Na'vi are the exact same concept culturally, functionally, and even appearance-wise for a race that *I* came up with two years ago, which is probably why I want to bust it down so much for unoriginality.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 5:46 AM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:
If that's right then Transformers 2, Independance Day, Home Alone, Top Gun and several others are amogst the greatest quality movies ever made.


Are you suggesting Top Gun isn't among the greatest movies ever made?



Actually yes I am.
It's a great movie that achieves what it sets out to do. But one of the greatest?
It's a Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am film that is full of cliches. The rebel with a haunted past, the goofball best mate, the unobtainable woman that he manages to get, the rivalry with those around him, the tragedy of losing someone and getting over it just in time to become the hero. It plays these well and the fact that Maverick doesn't get the trophy as well is a nice touch, but they are well trodden cliches and it doesn't try to do anything new or different with them.
It's a summer blockbuster movie that is entertaining in a 'put your brain in neutral' way but IMO opinion it could never get close to the greatest movies that make you think, move you emotionally in some way or whatever it may be.



"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 6:02 AM

BYTEMITE


It's also fairly well researched, even if it's fictional (the Navy stopped giving out Top Gun awards for intraservice competition a decade or so before). A number of the fighter pilots in the story are based on real people.

Quote:

t's a Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am film that is full of cliches. The rebel with a haunted past, the goofball best mate, the unobtainable woman that he manages to get, the rivalry with those around him, the tragedy of losing someone and getting over it just in time to become the hero. It plays these well and the fact that Maverick doesn't get the trophy as well is a nice touch, but they are well trodden cliches and it doesn't try to do anything new or different with them.


In that case, Star Wars, Avatar, and Serenity are also cliche. Though I grant you some of the great dramas like The Godfather and Schindler's List are in another class entirely.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 6:07 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Oddly, I didn't think Avatar was that creative, story-telling wise, setting wise, theme-wise, or even creature wise.

But then I suppose if I want to argue that, I'd have to argue the same about Star Wars (obvious eastern life force themes, samurai, the farm boy hero, princess, villain, and scoundrel archetypes are all present and used in abundance).

And Firefly is historical fiction set in a dystopian sci-fi setting, and also draws upon many of the same archetypes.

So I don't think I want to argue that.

Mostly I'm just pissed off that James Cameron's Na'vi are the exact same concept culturally, functionally, and even appearance-wise for a race that *I* came up with two years ago, which is probably why I want to bust it down so much for unoriginality.


None of that stuff is revolutionary. It was the film making techniques that set a new standard IMO. The facial expressions of the actors being so well transferred to the CGI characters is pretty cool. I didn't watch it in 3D because I don't see that as all that cool, but a lot of people seem to love it. Apparently it set a new standard there too.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 6:23 AM

BYTEMITE


I was annoyed that it's assumed an extraterrestrial species would have the exact same gestures and expressions as humans...

But yes, that is revolutionary, even if I think it was misused in the context of the story.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 6:39 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Those were too flawed to bother with.



Really? That's the best you can do? Flawed how then?

Sounds like you just don't have an answer, and rather than address the ideas, you bail.

Try harder, because that response makes you look afraid to actually debate the issue.


Quote:

James Cameron has achieved massive success and took the exact same genre to new film making levels. Showing that it is entirely possible in this day and age. Also showing success doesn't lobotomize creativity.


Well, if you're going to take it to that minute level, the technological advances Lucas utilized in the making of particularly Ep 1 & 2 are equivalent to what Cameron did with Avatar. So, by that criteria, he did raise the craft again with the prequels.

And I didn't say success ALWAYS lobotomizes creativity - but if you look, that is usually the case. Innovation in most art forms comes from the new guys, not the old guard.


"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 6:42 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
Nothing Hollywood makes is significant.



In the grand scheme of human existance, no they aren't.

But that's a ridiculously myopic view. By that measure, no song, or book, or painting has ever been significant. And again - in the greater view, this would be true as well. But it's a sad and depressing way to view the world.

But in the context of discussing the art form itself, yes, there are many significant works.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 6:49 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by two:
Nothing Hollywood makes is significant.



In the grand scheme of human existance, no they aren't.

But that's a ridiculously myopic view. By that measure, no song, or book, or painting has ever been significant. And again - in the greater view, this would be true as well. But it's a sad and depressing way to view the world.

But in the context of discussing the art form itself, yes, there are many significant works.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

I wear contacts -- I am ridiculously myopic. Now I'm taking your criticism dead serious. Movies can have significance. Parents ought to go with their children to How To Train Your Dragon, which has teenager Hiccup thinking, inventing, and being original. Those characteristics need encouragement from movies. Dragon is much better for children than any StarWars-Avatar-Top Gun, which are only fine if your children are joining the U.S. Marines.
The world needs millions of creative adults like Hiccup or else the starships of the Firefly Verse won't happen in this century or the next.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 6:59 AM

BYTEMITE


...? Did you miss the part in this very thread where some people said they were inspired to become engineers by Star Wars?

A movie doesn't have to hammer home "be creative children!" aesops to inspire people to create. Aesops are really a very ineffective way to inspire people to change their ways or encourage a behaviour. "Oh that's cool!" actually works much better.

Unfortunately, this is not how the school system works. Sit at your desks and memorize these lines and these dates, class. If you want to blame something for a lack of creativity in current generations of adults, there's your culprit.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 7:33 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
Parents ought to go with their children to How To Train Your Dragon, which has teenager Hiccup thinking, inventing, and being original. Those characteristics need encouragement from movies.



See, there we can agree. While I havn't seen that film yet, I do hear good things, and those are traits I'd like to see promoted.


Quote:

Dragon is much better for children than any StarWars-Avatar-Top Gun, which are only fine if your children are joining the U.S. Marines.


But here you seem to be getting small minded again. A huge percentage of working filmmakers today cite Star Wars as the reason they got into it in the first place. I'd bet money that if we asked the people behind Dragon, that at the very least some of them would say the same. Inspiration comes in many forms - it's foolish to say that only one pre-packaged piece of corporate entertianment (which Dragon most certainly is, quality of said product aside) can ispire kids.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 7:35 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Sit at your desks and memorize these lines and these dates, class. If you want to blame something for a lack of creativity in current generations of adults, there's your culprit.



As a teacher, I consider that a rather big distortion of the reality I see everyday.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 7:56 AM

BYTEMITE


It's not a reflection on you, but rather certain teaching styles.

And sometimes a school administration enforces a certain teaching style that's proven to not work, a la No Child Left Behind. Of course children won't care about a subject if you're drilling them for tests. If you want to improve performance in schools you have to stir up interest in the topic.

Many kids, from elementary school going into highschool, they don't care about school. This is because they're forced to go, they have to learn the subjects presented, and test-failure negative feedback. Those are good ways to turn someone off from learning, because it all ceases to be interesting for them. And if it's not interesting, they don't want to know it, and if they don't want to know it they're not going to test well, and if they're not going to test well they wonder why they should even bother.

All children start out curious.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 8:07 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
James Cameron has achieved massive success and took the exact same genre to new film making levels. Showing that it is entirely possible in this day and age. Also showing success doesn't lobotomize creativity.



True, Titanic and Avatar made Cameron the #1 money making machine in Hollywood. Nothing to scoff at.
Although his earlier works(Terminator, Abyss, Aliens) I feel are much more original, and entertaining.

-------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 8:29 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Those were too flawed to bother with.



Really? That's the best you can do? Flawed how then?

Sounds like you just don't have an answer, and rather than address the ideas, you bail.

Try harder, because that response makes you look afraid to actually debate the issue.


Quote:

James Cameron has achieved massive success and took the exact same genre to new film making levels. Showing that it is entirely possible in this day and age. Also showing success doesn't lobotomize creativity.


Well, if you're going to take it to that minute level, the technological advances Lucas utilized in the making of particularly Ep 1 & 2 are equivalent to what Cameron did with Avatar. So, by that criteria, he did raise the craft again with the prequels.

And I didn't say success ALWAYS lobotomizes creativity - but if you look, that is usually the case. Innovation in most art forms comes from the new guys, not the old guard.


You're right I don't want to waste my time debating with you. You've proven that you can't admit you're wrong in the past. I've seen no change in your behavior. So, what would be the point?

For the record I didn't see any technical achievement with the episode I. I don't remember any outpouring of praise in that department either.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 9:02 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
...? Did you miss the part in this very thread where some people said they were inspired to become engineers by Star Wars?

A movie doesn't have to hammer home "be creative children!" aesops to inspire people to create. Aesops are really a very ineffective way to inspire people to change their ways or encourage a behaviour. "Oh that's cool!" actually works much better....

I'm not optimistic about a future built on the dreams of generations of filmmakers, engineers, astronauts, generals, and politicians who are inspired by StarWars, George Lucas, Avatar, Terminator 2, and James Cameron. www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2010/1005.homans.html There is violent death as subject of their movies. And then all that money spent by Lucas & Cameron must be discouraging for filmmakers with small budgets. In fifty years I will know if I was being too pessimistic. I hope I'm wrong because I'll be there. “Droids, Skynet, I surrender. Don't shoot!”

I was inspired by Serenity and Joss Whedon to read Time's Arrow and Archimedes' Point: New Directions for the Physics of Time and From Eternity to Here: The Quest for the Ultimate Theory of Time and The Quantum Challenge, Second Edition: Modern Research on the Foundations of Quantum Mechanics. You wouldn't believe it but I found explanations for River's precognition. “...Earlier hidden variables are affected by later measurements.” The authors of the books won't believe it either. If they heard, they'd think I was a junior crank. I'd leave school in disgrace.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 9:19 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:

You're right I don't want to waste my time debating with you. You've proven that you can't admit you're wrong in the past. I've seen no change in your behavior. So, what would be the point?



Well, hard for me to admit being wrong when you can't even come up with any points to refute me. At least I'm trying to discuss the issue - you seem to just want everyone to think your opinion is fact.

I am open to discussion, and thus open to the idea that I could be wrong - but you have to have something to, you know, back up what you say beyond your opinion.

You think I'm so wrong - yet cannot even form a single argument or salient point which illustrates this.

So, yes, I suppose I will continue to consider myself right as long as you don't even have the nerve to stand up for your POV.

But if you want to bring past discussions in - well, you have shown a tendency to become aggressive and belligerent anytime anyone disagrees with you. I can admit when I'm wrong - others here can attest to that. But you seem to loose your shit anytime someone says you're wrong.... so it seems you're doing a wee bit of projection there, friend.

I made my points - I stand by them. If you disagree - and you have every right to - at least TRY to make your point, rather than stamping your feet like a petulant child getting cranky because they didn't get their way.

But just shouting "you're wrong" without showing the balls to back your arguments, is pretty pathetic. You have a point, MAKE IT. Otherwise, STFU.

Quote:

For the record I didn't see any technical achievement with the episode I. I don't remember any outpouring of praise in that department either.


Then you weren't paying much attention. It was the first film to not only have an all-CG main character, but also upped the stakes on digital characters in terms of number on screen, and facial animation. It was the first live action film to have several sequences which were virtually all animated. Plus, it was one of the first films to extensively use CG set extensions. Episode II was the first large scale production to shoot on digital, and the first to extensively use CG doubles rather than stunt actors.

Your ignorance (or more likely refusal to acknowledge) of the advances made on those films doesn't mean they didn't happen.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 9:30 AM

CHRISISALL


Actually, my single biggest problem with Phantom Menace was the crappy puppet that was Yoda. They fixed that in Attack & Revenge though.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, May 6, 2010 9:59 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Actually, my single biggest problem with Phantom Menace was the crappy puppet that was Yoda. They fixed that in Attack & Revenge though.


The laughing Chrisisall




Yeah.... pretty sad when a 1999 puppet looks worse than the one they used 20 years prior.

That's one thing about the eventual re-release/Blu ray version, is the CGed Ep 1 Yoda.


Though that'd hardly be my biggest issue with the movie, it was certainly one that stood out.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 10:11 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Though that'd hardly be my biggest issue with the movie, it was certainly one that stood out.


I found the movies entertaining, after my initial laundry list of "Whoah, that's not right!"s.
But, they are what they are, and certainly heaps better than Matrix: Revulsions or Highlander 2, to name examples of TRUE losers!


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, May 6, 2010 10:20 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Though that'd hardly be my biggest issue with the movie, it was certainly one that stood out.


I found the movies entertaining, after my initial laundry list of "Whoah, that's not right!"s.
But, they are what they are, and certainly heaps better than Matrix: Revulsions or Highlander 2, to name examples of TRUE losers!


The laughing Chrisisall




I still enjoy them, though I do consider them to be a pretty mixed bag. My biggest issue with TPM is the coices Lucas made in terms of where to start the story, and what/who to focus on. I think, had he done more or less the same story with a 14-15 year old Anakin, things would have worked much better overall. Well, and the pacing needed work. An epic space opera should not have (I believe it is) 9 different sit-down meetings.

But then, I kinda like the Matrix sequels, though I get why others don't. They, much like the prequels, are a great example of telling a story your audience isn't interested in, and not giving them the story they want. But I do admire those films for trying to take the "summer blockbuster" in a direction no one had tried before. It didn't really work - but I appreciate the effort. I usually prefer a failed attempt at greatness over a successful attempt at mediocrity.


"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 3:28 PM

CHRISISALL


OMG, a must-see that was sent to me:



I can't believe it...


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, May 6, 2010 4:30 PM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
My biggest issue with The Phantom Menace is the choices Lucas made in terms of where to start the story, and what/who to focus on. ... Well, and the pacing needed work. An epic space opera should not have (I believe it is) 9 different sit-down meetings.

And should not have four endings.



The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 4:53 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by two:




Ummm..... okay. Too true, I'll admit.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, May 6, 2010 7:07 PM

OPPYH


"it is odd that out of the thousands of directors that have come and gone, none have tried to revise their history, to the extent of trying to wipe out evidence of their original work, like Lucas has. We all know that there have been productions that went through considerably more trauma than Star Wars, but none have flat out tried to rewrite history and deny facts as they existed. The guy who minored in psychology in me sees a potential disorder in this behavior."
Carlo Medina.
Hometheaterforum.

"The AFI, BFI, and Library of Congress all hold prints of the original trilogy. But Lucas won't allow them to be screened. Film history and film preservation be damned. I can't think of any other classic films that are being treated this way.

Is it any wonder why some fans spend their own time and money on grotty old 16mm prints, or trying to squeeze every last detail out of ancient Laserdisc masters?"




-------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 7:39 PM

TRAVELER


Wow! What a lot is all this. I saw the first prequel and was not that thrilled. Saw the second one and again it just was not there. Never saw the third. I think it is the love for those originals and the great scenes. They were not just great effects, but the set of the scene that made the effect more awesome. You see the first ship and go, "That is great", and you know another ship chasing it by the weapons fire. And then the second ship rolls in and slowly fills the entire screen. It is epic. How can the prequels, even with improved effects, compete with a scene like that? If you grew up with the first three, you are spoiled and the next haven't a chance. It is rather sad.


http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Friday, May 7, 2010 5:28 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
OMG, a must-see that was sent to me:



I can't believe it...


The laughing Chrisisall




Even in Legoland, Chewie gets screwed out of his medal....

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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