OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Dallhouse season 2 premier, flop or good.

POSTED BY: JAMERON4EVA
UPDATED: Sunday, October 4, 2009 08:16
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VIEWED: 3274
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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:19 AM

JAMERON4EVA


Okay if you have seen the premier, which according to Fox itself, only a measly 2.6 million viewers watched,then most are asking, WHAT THE FUCK?!!!

Yes i know you may hate me after this, but listen, especially you KWICKO, I . TOLD . YOU . SO . Yes it was a great idea for FOX, to pull TSCC, not only did they cancel a great show, but they got more viewers for their channel on friday premiers. Oh that 2.6 million was FANTASTIC, for DOLLHOUSE, meanwhile TSCC never got ratings that low for either prmier, or ep. Yes FOX made a good decision, we Whedon and Termi nator fans should applaud Fox for it's great strategic planning, and foresight.

Signing off, yours truly,
Jameron4eva.


If you don't know, that's sarcasim. SCREW FOX!!!!!!!!!!!


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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:44 AM

RALLEM


I tried to watch the show on hulu but was unable to because of scheduling issues. The bits I did watch had me lost.



http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:11 AM

SUASOR


Yeah, it wa a bit dense. You had to pay attention.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:43 AM

KHAMBILO


The Dollhouse premier was not the best episode of Dollhouse. I'll concede that. But keep in mind that the first episode back of Season 2 of Buffy was not stellar as well. It seems to be a crux a television as a whole. Second seasons of most TV shows try to put way too much into the openings of second seasons as an attempt to invite new viewers. This is not an issue for later seasons when the show has found an audience.

As far as the Terminator stuff, I've never watched it. But to be honest, regardless of the quality of the show (acting, story, etc.) the Terminator franchise seems to be a dying franchise. It's been dying since the 3rd installment.

I'm not trying to offend any TSCC fans with this. If i started to watch the show, i would probably like it and feel the similarly about it's cancellation.

But, Dollhouse is still on. It has massive potential, as demonstrated by later episodes in season 1 and the unaired Epitaph One. It just needs to hit it's season 2 stride. Again with a Buffy comparison, Season 2 did not hit it's stride until the whole Angel/Angelus problem, which ultimately fueled the second season and made it one of the best seasons of Buffy ever.

I guess what i'm trying to say is give Dollhouse a chance, let it hit it's stride.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:45 AM

KHAMBILO


Oh and to answer your question, flop or good?

I'd say mostly good.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by jameron4eva:

Yes i know you may hate me after this, but listen, especially you KWICKO, I . TOLD . YOU . SO . Yes it was a great idea for FOX, to pull TSCC, not only did they cancel a great show, but they got more viewers for their channel on friday premiers. Oh that 2.6 million was FANTASTIC, for DOLLHOUSE, meanwhile TSCC never got ratings that low for either prmier, or ep. Yes FOX made a good decision, we Whedon and Termi nator fans should applaud Fox for it's great strategic planning, and foresight.



Oh hell, Jamey - you'll get little to no argument from me on that one. I DVR'd it and watched it a few days later, and I wouldn't say it was either good OR a flop. It was... ihhh. What I said to my wife after it was over was, "We had to wait through all of Season One just to get HERE?"

The show just isn't likely to become one of my favorites. It's populated with characters I really just don't like, and I don't see myself growing to like them much over time. Buffy and Angel, and even moreso Firefly, were populated with good people in really bad situations, trying to do the best thing, or at least the LEAST-BAD thing. Dollhouse is basically a lot of bad people doing bad things - and not being very conflicted about it.

Doesn't make for a whole lot of tension, does it?

As for why Fox decides ANYTHING, that's well beyond me. If I knew how they did it, well, Firefly would likely be premiering its seventh or eigth season about now...

I have no idea WHY they pulled TSCC and kept Dollhouse, because I sure as hell expected it to go the other way, or even for them to kill off both shows. Maybe they've got more ownership in the studio behind Dollhouse; I have no idea.

I don't really blame them for pulling TSCC, because it was never really doing it for me. However, I *am* starting to blame them for NOT pulling Dollhouse. There, I said it. Loose your slings and arrows; I can take it.

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:03 AM

ZEEK


I'm confused. You posted this to rip on the numbers that Dollhouse pulled in. So, do you think Firefly was a good show to cancel because the numbers were bad? Do you think that the viewership is an accurate measure of a show's quality? If so isn't TSCC still a fairly subpar show?

Maybe you're just posting to be bitter and to take it out on another show. That would be classy.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:48 AM

STAPLES


I'm having trouble understanding why everyone thought the episode was bad. I thoroughly enjoyed the premiere. No, I don't think it was the best episode by any means, but compare it to the entire first half of season 1 and it's actually pretty good. The stuff with Topher and Dr.Sonders was unadulterated, pure Joss - and what's bad about that?

Not to tick anyone off, but I couldn't get 15 minutes into the premiere of TSCC. I said, "I tried it for you, Summer Glau, but I just cannot watch any more..." Dollhouse is something that I find to always have intrigue, even if it doesn't hold up in the story-telling or character aspects.

Give it a break folks, it's still better than 90% of the crap coming out of television these days.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:53 AM

DEWRASTLER


Quote:

Originally posted by Staples:
I'm having trouble understanding why everyone thought the episode was bad. I thoroughly enjoyed the premiere. No, I don't think it was the best episode by any means, but compare it to the entire first half of season 1 and it's actually pretty good. The stuff with Topher and Dr.Sonders was unadulterated, pure Joss - and what's bad about that?




Agreed. That was the best part of the episode. I'm glad that the supporting cast got a lot to do and it was all Eliza. A stronger cast=a stronger show

________________________________
People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:55 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Staples:
I'm having trouble understanding why everyone thought the episode was bad. I thoroughly enjoyed the premiere. No, I don't think it was the best episode by any means, but compare it to the entire first half of season 1 and it's actually pretty good. The stuff with Topher and Dr.Sonders was unadulterated, pure Joss - and what's bad about that?


Not everyone does. I thought it was a pretty good episode but that it really made me more interested in where the show is going. Looked like a lot of potential there for the rest of the season.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:10 AM

KHAMBILO


Quote:

Originally posted by Dewrastler:

Agreed. That was the best part of the episode. I'm glad that the supporting cast got a lot to do and it was all Eliza. A stronger cast=a stronger show

________________________________
People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do



Exactly. It's already shaping up to be a season. The problem is the time slot. I'm going to miss this friday's episode....

Why did Joss even go to Fox with Dollhouse? There has to be another network out there that could market the show ten times better and actually give it a fighting chance.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:27 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by khambilo:
Why did Joss even go to Fox with Dollhouse? There has to be another network out there that could market the show ten times better and actually give it a fighting chance.


I know Eliza Dushku has a contract with them. I think Joss might have one as well. I know a while back there was a contract for Mutant Enemy to work with Fox studio, but he shut down Mutant Enemy at one point. So, who knows what deal he has currently. Either way it's all contract type stuff. Even if the contracts weren't there I think it's generally bad business to hold grudges. Luckily we don't have to worry about he business side and can rip on Fox left and right.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:38 AM

KHAMBILO


The contract thing makes sense.... even still putting a sci-fi show on Fox on Friday nights is a formula for failure. You'd think Joss, and moreover the execs would see that. It would be nice to have a Joss show succeed like Buffy did, but thats not gonna happen in that time slot.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I liked it.

No worse or harder to follow than some LOST episode.( Which I stopped watching after season 2 )



The T.Rex they call JANE!


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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:59 AM

OPTIMUS1998


replies to several of the above posts,
Yes Fox[network] does have more control over the studio that shoots dollhouse than the one that shot TSCC

Dollhouse: 20th Century Fox Television
T:SCC: Warner Brothers Television

and all the comparisons to the second series of buffy, is Just....to a point. you have to remember the diffrence in the networks. yes buffy and angel were shot by 20th Television, but they aired on 'the WB' which at the time Buffy Premiered was practically a new fledgling network. ANY of their shows getting 2.6 million viewers was HUGE. Kinda like cable ratings. (if dollhouse were on, say, SciFi, (i refuse to type that other name), 2.6 million would be huge numbers, they'd be throwing money at it. )

where as FOX (network) is one of the "Big Boys"
seen by almost every household in america.they think they need bigger numbers they need to slaughter the competition.
and why go back to them? well If Mutant enemy is contracted to Fox Studios i think the network "attached " to the studio gets first dibs. if they pass, they they can shop it to the other networks.

and just from listening to the following exchange i knew this was a Joss Script without watching the credits, or reading the wiki....( from the Topher/ivy exchange, just before he finds the Rats)

T: How many More today?
I: Well the Jonas Brothers are back in town..
T: Say no More. Voracious Little Nippers..



Make Cartoons, Not War
- Sue Blu
Once, while having sex in a tractor-trailer, part of Chuck Norris' sperm escaped and got into the engine. We now know this truck as Optimus Prime.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:00 AM

KHAMBILO


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


No worse or harder to follow than some LOST episode.( Which I stopped watching after season 2 )





That is a show that has gone on for far too long.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:29 AM

TUJIAOZUO


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:

Originally posted by khambilo:
Why did Joss even go to Fox with Dollhouse? There has to be another network out there that could market the show ten times better and actually give it a fighting chance.


I know Eliza Dushku has a contract with them. I think Joss might have one as well. I know a while back there was a contract for Mutant Enemy to work with Fox studio, but he shut down Mutant Enemy at one point. So, who knows what deal he has currently. Either way it's all contract type stuff. Even if the contracts weren't there I think it's generally bad business to hold grudges. Luckily we don't have to worry about he business side and can rip on Fox left and right.



From what I've heard, Joss had a contract with FOX for several years. Which was why after the year of the Firefly debacle he shut down Mutant Enemy. He wasn't going to do TV until his contract was up so he focused on other venues. Then, the year the contract expired (I think) he met up with Eliza. Her production company was with Fox and Fox wanted to develop a show around her. So the two of them over lunch came up with Dollhouse, and because the higher ups that had f***** over Firefly were gone and replaced by NBC people Joss once again partnered up with FOX.*

I know the ratings are horrific and there's a deathwatch on DH already, but it's hard for me to fight for this show. I can't get into it (Epitaph One is the only episode I genuinely like.), and I really want to. However-

1)It may be because Fox stripped it of its essence the first season, but it might not. I can still get the gist of what Joss was going for. Read his interviews, saw him at Comic Con, I know where he's coming from. However it's still hard for me to buy it. I love everything else he's done and after thinking about it I think I've found my reason.
Joss excels at ordinary characters cut from the stereotype** cloth that are then put in extraordinary situations. The characters are easy to relate to and even though their base might be a common trope they're incredibly multifaceted. The down to earth weight of a lot of his characters and concepts (High School is Hell, Literally) even with sci-fi and supernatural twists is what makes it so engrossing. But with Dollhouse there really wasn't this feeling of humble origins and relatable characters. With their personalities constantly changing, and only those in control with fully formed personalities, it's hard to invest in characters. For instance one I like is Topher because he's a typical quirky guy with Whedon vocab, but it's hard for me to love the though guy because underneath it all he's a cog in the giant evil machine. I understand that the House has been shown to help people. But still, it's also been hammered into my head that the tech is bad, will destroy the world, and people are being taken advantage of. It's not about a ragtag group of underdogs just trying to survive and live life, it's not about the less than popular kids trying to survive highschool and slay the big bads, it's trying to be something else and it's trying too hard for me.

2)Eliza really doesn't sell it for me, and in fact I think her supporting cast often outdoes her as she constantly ends up playing 'Faith 2.0: The Dollhouse Upgrade'.

Holy crap that was longer than I meant for it to be. Sorry folks.

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

*Not 100% on this, there's gotta be someone out there that knows there stuff better than me
** Stereotype is not being used as a bad thing.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by khambilo:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


No worse or harder to follow than some LOST episode.( Which I stopped watching after season 2 )





That is a show that has gone on for far too long.



It's funny, but that is exactly what I said 45 minutes into the pilot episode!

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 2:52 PM

GRIZWALD


I just saw it on Hulu and thought it was wonderful.

I watched with poor Mister Grizwald, who saw none of the first season and was completely lost and kept messing up the dialogue by interrupting with "Is she a Doll?" "What about him, is he a Doll too?" "What, she's a Doll? I thought she was a doctor. There are Doctor Dolls? I don't get this."

*sigh*

I love him anyway. Hey, I did the same thing to him when I once walked in on him watching some TV show with these two amazon women fighting and crashing into statues and falling off things and I said "What are you watching?" and he said "Battlestar Galactica" and I said "You're kidding" and he said "That's Starbuck" and then had to listen to about 5 minutes of my shrieking that that COULDN'T be Starbuck, it's a GIRL, and then when I finally calmed down, he said, "And she's fighting a Cylon," and had to listen to more shrieking.

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 8:16 AM

JAMERON4EVA


Can anyone tell me, what 20% off of a 2.6 rating is? Anyone, anyone,

Well i think we should give a big round of applause to FOX.

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