OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Dune: 'Extended Edition' DVD vs. 'Long' TV version?

POSTED BY: DECLAN
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 14:15
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Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:06 AM

DECLAN


I've seen ads for an "Extended Edition" DVD of the David Lynch version of Dune to be released on 31 January. Does anyone know how this compares with the "Long" version, occasionally shown on SciFi channel? This would be the "Alan Smithee" version with the painted images introduction and history voice-over.

***************
"'Course, there are other schools of thought."


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Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:06 AM

DECLAN


I've seen ads for an "Extended Edition" DVD of the David Lynch version of Dune to be released on 31 January. Does anyone know how this compares with the "Long" version, occasionally shown on SciFi channel? This would be the "Alan Smithee" version with the painted images introduction and history voice-over.

***************
"'Course, there are other schools of thought."


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Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:57 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


amazon.com says it has both versions included with this release.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, January 29, 2006 3:20 PM

CHRISISALL


As I understand it, they were trying to get Lynch to do a long version edit, but he stands by his theatrical cut.
The DVD has both the theatrical, and long 'Smithee' version, first time in anamorphic widescreen for both.
I'm SO there.
(I like the theatrical version better, btw.)

Chrisisall, who's name is a killing word

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Sunday, January 29, 2006 3:59 PM

KANESKI


Hmm... on the one hand, the original movie had a better cast, effects, etc., but the TV miniseries told much more of the story. For a complex world, you need the time. I felt the movie was pretty much the best of quotes with some vehicles and people moving in between and even extending it to 3 hours won't make up the difference.

So, I'd still go the miniseries.

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Monday, January 30, 2006 5:36 AM

DECLAN


My thanks to all for their help.

I had heard about a long version edit so I was wondering if the DVD version was going to be different from the long Smithee version, i.e. a third version. It appears not.

I have a vague recollection that when the long version was first shown on Broadcast TV it was 5 hours with commercials.

I know that the SciFi Channel version is 4 hours with commercials -- and no one does more commercials per hour than SciFi...

As to relative worth, to me the recent mini-series is very true to the book but it lacks something. Some spirit or spark.

I have very mixed feeling about the Lynch movie but it does have more of an epic feel to it.

I saw it in the theater with my then girlfriend. I literally squirmed in my seat. I didn't like the liberties that Lynch had taken with the story. The voiceovers of the characters thoughts didn't work in the movie and came out awkward. And the heartplug scene...! Well, I didn't like the movie, then.

Now, I can watch either movie version, long or short, but tend to prefer the long. The short version seems to take 80% of the movie to tell the story in Book One and then rushes the remainder of the story.

Another vague remembrance, I think Harlan Ellison either wrote in F&SF or said somewhere that he had seen a 5 hour Lynch cut and it was GOOD. It has always made me wonder.



***************
"'Course, there are other schools of thought."

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Monday, January 30, 2006 5:36 AM

DECLAN


My thanks to all for their help.

I had heard about a long version edit so I was wondering if the DVD version was going to be different from the long Smithee version, i.e. a third version. It appears not.

I have a vague recollection that when the long version was first shown on Broadcast TV it was 5 hours with commercials.

I know that the SciFi Channel version is 4 hours with commercials -- and no one does more commercials per hour than SciFi...

As to relative worth, to me the recent mini-series is very true to the book but it lacks something. Some spirit or spark.

I have very mixed feeling about the Lynch movie but it does have more of an epic feel to it.

I saw it in the theater with my then girlfriend. I literally squirmed in my seat. I didn't like the liberties that Lynch had taken with the story. The voiceovers of the characters thoughts didn't work in the movie and came out awkward. And the heartplug scene...! Well, I didn't like the movie, then.

Now, I can watch either movie version, long or short, but tend to prefer the long. The short version seems to take 80% of the movie to tell the story in Book One and then rushes the remainder of the story.

Another vague remembrance, I think Harlan Ellison either wrote in F&SF or said somewhere that he had seen a 5 hour Lynch cut and it was GOOD. It has always made me wonder.



***************
"'Course, there are other schools of thought."

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Thursday, February 2, 2006 12:13 PM

CHRISISALL


Declan, there was never enough filmed to make a 5 hour version. He must have meant WITH commercials.

And I like long, too, but that 15 minute intro with the bad drawings is something I'll always skip when watching the 3 hour version.

My b-day's coming soon, I'll be visiting the Fremen again in no time *crosses fingers*

Chrisisall on Arakis

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Friday, February 3, 2006 10:09 PM

SINGATE


Bought the DVD this week and watched the extended version because I hadn't seen it in a while. There are a couple of things that bugged me:

1. There were scenes missing from the extended version that I vividly remember from the theatrical version. Not that these scenes are particulary important, in fact the ones I'm thinking of are rather disgusting, but shouldn't they be in the extended version?

2. The deep blue eyes the Fremen, and later some of the main characters, have disappear from one scene to the next. Is this just bad editing on this version or has it always been this way?

I suppose I should watch the regular version to check on my own but I wanted to see if anyone else noticed these things.



_________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Saturday, February 4, 2006 6:39 AM

CHRISISALL


The blue eyes thing is effects not done yet, but the scenes were used anyway to extend the movie.
The heart plug and other stuff was edited out to make it acceptable for the general audience. The extended verson is nothing new, just on DVD, and widescreen for the first time.

The theatrical version is still superior, but it's nice to have both to compare...

Chrisisall, blue eyes not hands

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Sunday, February 5, 2006 3:37 PM

CHRISISALL


singate, have you watched the theatrical version yet? I'm hanging on the edge waiting to hear your comparison review...

Worm riding Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 5, 2006 5:46 PM

SINGATE


I probably get to it tonight after watching the charming programming run on adult swim.

It wasn't my intention to give the impression that I didn't like the extended version. I was just a little confused about some things being left out. It always been my experience that extended means same as the theatrical but with some added scenes.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Sunday, February 5, 2006 10:00 PM

SINGATE


Okay I just got done watching the theatrical version and I have to agree with you Chrisisall it is better. At 2 hours and 15 minutes it is much tighter than the extended version. Having Irulan introduce the film is more concise than the voiceover accompanied by artist's renderings. Also any excuse to give Virginia Madsen more screen time is fine by me. Too bad she wasn't used more in the film.

There were some things from the EV I wish had been kept in the TV:

1. The conversation between Mapes and Jessica.

2. Paul's duel with the Fremen warrior and his accepting of the man's water.

3. The harvesting of the water of life.

There are also some bits of dialogue I wish had been kept but I don't want to nitpick.

Just a few things on the film overall while I'm rambling. I still can't figure out why more people don't like this movie. It has a strong cast, great story, and with a few exceptions special effects that still hold up today.

Does Patrick Stewart age? He looks the same as he did in 1984. Once again Brad Dourif completely nails a creepy character. Paul's sister Alia is one of the freakiest characters I've ever seen. The Baron may be the most disgusting bad guy in film history.

One last thing, I also liked the sci-fi mini series even though it was completely different. Never read any of the books so I don't know which was more faithful. Not that it really matters to me. I saw the movie version first and will always regard it as the definitive version of Dune.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Monday, February 6, 2006 1:12 AM

EMPRESSPIRK


I just started reading the book so thanks, guys, for all the information and your opinions about this new Dune DVD release. I might end up getting it when I'm done reading.

I suppose the miniseries is not available on DVD?

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Monday, February 6, 2006 2:55 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Does Patrick Stewart age? He looks the same as he did in 1984.

That's because he's a sophisticated Acting robot sent back through time, to change the future for one lucky show...

Also his new series is very good.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.

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Monday, February 6, 2006 4:01 AM

TALLGRRL


Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
Just a few things on the film overall while I'm rambling. I still can't figure out why more people don't like this movie. It has a strong cast, great story, and with a few exceptions special effects that still hold up today.

Does Patrick Stewart age? He looks the same as he did in 1984. Once again Brad Dourif completely nails a creepy character. Paul's sister Alia is one of the freakiest characters I've ever seen. The Baron may be the most disgusting bad guy in film history.

One last thing, I also liked the sci-fi mini series even though it was completely different. Never read any of the books so I don't know which was more faithful. Not that it really matters to me. I saw the movie version first and will always regard it as the definitive version of Dune.



I, personally, never really liked the Lynch version because I have a love/hate relationship with him.
I loved "Twin Peaks" and "Wild at Heart", but absolutely loathe "Eraserhead" and "Blue Velvet". I almost loved "Mulholland Drive", then the last, oh, 10 minutes or so of the movie made me want to throw something at the screen. Wait, no. It was the last maybe 20 minutes.
He just doesn't know when to stop.
(I have the same problem with Spike Lee: he doesn't know when to cut something out.
Both of these directors needs someone to work with them and tell them what they don't want to hear:
"Take that part out.")
As far as "Dune" is concerned, I like both the TV mini-series better. More of the story is told. And I like that I don't recognize all of the actors.
As much as I love me some Sting, it got in the way for me.
And no. Patrick Stewart does not age. He still looks the same now as he did back then.
Dead sexy, that one.
Hey! I'm just sayin'.


"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

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Monday, February 6, 2006 6:27 AM

CHRISISALL


Excellent review, thanks.
The day of my birth approaches, I feel I will have it soon

Thumper Chrisisall

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Monday, February 6, 2006 9:11 AM

SINGATE


Empresspirk,

Both the Dune mini series and the follow up Children of Dune are available at amazon for a paltry $10 each. For that price I'm gonna pick them up myself. Happy hunting.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 11:13 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Wormriding Chrisisall, thought I'd drop into this thread since I'm a long time fan of ALL things Dune...

I just got this DVD yesterday and plan on watching it tonight ( if I can tear myself away from FFF.net long enough!). I saw the theatrical version in the theatre when it came out and didn't like it. I had read as many Dune books as were out at that time and the baron in the movie....well,not so much.

I loved the long version when I saw it later.. thought it was well done, minus the first drawing/voiceover thingy. I've seen both mini-series on SciFi and liked them both, the second one, Children of Dune, better.

I'm looking forward to seeing the theatrical version again and giving it a fresh chance.



" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 3:59 PM

CHRISISALL


The theatrical version is tighter, I think, but there are scenes in the long version that are really good. Let me know what ya think.

I plan on more or less watching the intro from the theatrical, then slipping over to the long.

Ughhh! Worm's out of gas Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 4:28 PM

MIRAMEL


i gotta say, the min-series version is SO much better; the other version is pretty good up untill around when paul kills jamis, but after that, imo, it just went to sh!t. the miniseries is MUCH longer, and more or less accurate

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Monday, February 13, 2006 3:37 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:
I'm looking forward to seeing the theatrical version again and giving it a fresh chance.



Mal

Just got it for my b'day, and the long version certainly is edited in a clunky fashion. I expect this will be my last viewing of it just to see it on dvd, as I will default to the tighter theatrical version in the future.
Let me know what you think after ya see it, FollowMal.

Maud Chrisisall

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Monday, February 13, 2006 4:34 PM

FOLLOWMAL


I will, Chris... been busy with taxes, and gave up viewing it over the weekend as I had to sort, since I had my husbands attention to help.

I hope tomorrow to dive in and I'll let you know.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CHRIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






Bene Gesserit Diane

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:51 AM

CHRISISALL


Thanks for the HBDay.
Finished the long version late last night (I spread it ocver two nights), and then watched further deleted scenes, and I'm truly puzzled; why ARE there deleted scenes at all? I mean, as long as the editing was, shall we say, questionable, why not just throw in everything that they could? Some of the 'deleted' scenes were at least as interesting as the extra scenes they did include....?

Oh well, you'll see.

Change wakes up something deep Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:49 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Thanks for the HBDay.
Finished the long version late last night (I spread it ocver two nights), and then watched further deleted scenes, and I'm truly puzzled; why ARE there deleted scenes at all? I mean, as long as the editing was, shall we say, questionable, why not just throw in everything that they could? Some of the 'deleted' scenes were at least as interesting as the extra scenes they did include....?

Oh well, you'll see.

Change wakes up something deep Chrisisall



Simply a matter of running time. The extended edition was not assembled for the DVD, but was created in the mid-80's for TV airing. For that purpose, it was spread out to fill out 4 hours of TV time (allowing for commercials), originally spread out over 2 nights (though the Scifi channel shows it strait through from time to time). Adding the other deleted scenes would have pushed that version past the allotted timeframe, so they were left out.

Universal invited Lynch to do an entirely new cut of the film for this DVD, presumably useing the other deleted scenes, to make a version Lynch was happy with (as he had his name removed from the existing extended version), but he declined.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:55 AM

EMPRESSPIRK


Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
Empresspirk,

Both the Dune mini series and the follow up Children of Dune are available at amazon for a paltry $10 each. For that price I'm gonna pick them up myself. Happy hunting.



Thanks, Singate, for the info. I'm definitely gonna get them both. I'm still debating whether to get just the theatrical version of the movie or this new extended edition.

One question: is the Children of Dune based on any of Herbert's books or is it something different all together?

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 9:05 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by empressPirk:
Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
Empresspirk,

Both the Dune mini series and the follow up Children of Dune are available at amazon for a paltry $10 each. For that price I'm gonna pick them up myself. Happy hunting.



Thanks, Singate, for the info. I'm definitely gonna get them both. I'm still debating whether to get just the theatrical version of the movie or this new extended edition.

One question: is the Children of Dune based on any of Herbert's books or is it something different all together?



The Children of Dune miniseries adapts the 2nd and 3rd Dune books. The mini was in 3 parts. The first covers book 2, Dune Messiah, while parts 2&3 adapt the third book, Children of Dune.

I recently read an interview with John Harrison, who wrote both minis, and directed the first, about how he has approached SciFi about continuing the series either as another mini based on the 4th book, or a regular series based on the Dune prequel novels recently published. Unfortunetly, they weren't interested. Surprising, really, since both Dune minis were big ratings hits for the channel. Oh well....

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:46 AM

EMPRESSPIRK


Thanks, Storymark.

I didn't even realize there was a book 3. I just found book 1 in three separate parts and Dune Messiah book in the library so I got a bit confused.

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Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:02 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


Simply a matter of running time.

Thanks, Storymark. So simple, I should have thought of it.

No-mentat Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:12 PM

THIEFJEHAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

I recently read an interview with John Harrison, who wrote both minis, and directed the first, about how he has approached SciFi about continuing the series either as another mini based on the 4th book, or a regular series based on the Dune prequel novels recently published. Unfortunetly, they weren't interested. Surprising, really, since both Dune minis were big ratings hits for the channel. Oh well....



You just confirmed a long held fear I've had that God Emperor of Dune is not going to be adapted into a mini for the sci-fi channel. It saddens me but doesn't suprise me so much, if you've ever read it you'll see that it is very very heady and would be a titanic endeavor to put into a TV format.

I am a self-professed expert of all things Dune. Of the three adaptations of the series I feel that Children of Dune was by far the best and the closest to the spirit of Frank Herbert. Of the differences between the Sci-Fi Dune and Lynch's extended dune; Sci-fi stayed closer to the tale but put characters in silly costumes. Lynch nailed the acting (Dourif as Piter was astonishing) but he made up silly stuff like "killing people with sound" and heartplugs. Overall, you get the best experience if you watch Lynch's dune and Sci-fi's and cherrypick the best things about them.

But trust me on Children of Dune, it is by far superior to the previous Dune attempts. The costumes are toned down and the story is true to the books.


Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 8:11 PM

AUSSAY


I like both versions, but Dune is such a detailed and complex book, the series does it more justice.

Lynch put some weird shit in the movie too.

Chaaaaaaa AAAAA!

"Shake your head boy, your eyes are stuck"

www.fireflyfans.net
http://www.browncoatsriseagain.com/

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:15 PM

LUPINADDAMS


A lot of the "weird shit" Lynch put into Dune was derived from Arab Sufi sources - which is apt, at least, That speech Paul gives about using sound to destroy... it's a rephrasing of a prayer by Rumi.
(Without the whole 'make peoples eyes bleed and bust their organs" bit of course.)

"You are what you do."
Andrew Vacchs

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:15 PM

ERIC


Interestingly, Frank Herbert himself was very involved in the filming of Lynch's version, and according to the bio written by his son (which I find dubious in the extreme, but that's another matter) he felt that Lynch was actually doing a good job:

"Around September, when Dad was leaving for California, he was telling people he liked what he had seen of the film. When asked about it, he frequently kissed his fingertips and exclaimed, 'They're capturing the essence of my book, doing it just right!'" -"Dreamer of Dune," p. 472 (paperback)

He even hosted the world premiere and lavished praise on it, dedicating it to his wife.

In my opinion, it's just too weird to connect with a general audience. The miniseries was better, but they dumbed it down a lot, and was visually embarrassing. Children of Dune was much better, but still rather simplified (why can't anyone pronounce Tleilaxu?!?!?) I shudder to think what they would do with God Emperor, which is mostly talking and walking, with some violent interludes. Part of me wishes people would stop trying to adapt Dune at all, just cause I don't think it can be done on film in a way that satisfies most readers' interpretations.

In summary, JUST READ THE BLOODY BOOKS!

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