OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Thoughts on EPISODE III ***SPOILERS***

POSTED BY: STATIC
UPDATED: Sunday, June 19, 2005 21:52
SHORT URL:
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Friday, May 20, 2005 8:19 AM

STATIC


Well. . .

I wasn't dissapointed.

In fact, because of Eps 1 and 2, I had set my expectations a little lower than I normally would have.

CGI Yoda is a great idea, simply because otherwise, we couldn't see what a true Jedi Master he is. I think if he'd not been meant to be anything more than the aged teacher like in JEDI, Lucas might've sticked to puppets.

THANK GOD Jar-Jar didn't speak.

Christiansen is getting better. He'll do much better in his career I think.

I liked the vaguely "Godfather-esque" feel to the ambush/slaughter of the Jedi. If it were me, I'd have gone ahead with a full tribute to Coppola and had the ambush scenes take place, mixed with Palpatine's speech to the Senate.

I'm sorry. . .the whole "Darth Frankenstein" scene SUCKED. I mean really. Come on. I can't imagine James Earl Jones was able to keep a straight face.

It was nice to see Peter Mayhew working again.




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Friday, May 20, 2005 8:21 AM

THATWEIRDGIRL


yeah, code 66 is gonna take on an interesting meaning in the workplace.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
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Can we not revel in our cyber-love?

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Friday, May 20, 2005 8:49 AM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.


Darth Vader: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

I tried...I desperately tried to keep a straight face, but nothing doing. I laughed out loud, and I wasn't the only one...otherwise, I liked that scene just fine. I was a little disheartened that I didn't get more Vader in the suit.

A buddy I saw the movie with said that he didn't understand why the Emperor was being so caring to Vader towards the end of the movie. I said, were you not paying attention in the opera scene? Palpatine as much as admitted that he was Anakin's father! That means all the Sith apprentices were only leading up to Anakin's eventual fall. That aspect of the film is something I like much better than "He was conceieved by midichlorians."

I actually am waiting for a DVD so I can see the lightsabre duels a little better...The duel in Episode one was very visible...Not so much with the other two movies...Until I saw Episode 2 on DVD.

I was a little disheartened by how Mace went out. If they were going to link this movie so closely to The Clone Wars, then I don't think he should have been so easy to kill...same with Grievious.

For the love of God: "If I'm so beautiful, its because I love you" "No, you're beautiful because I love you" WTF!!! I know that's not the exact quote, but...

I would have liked for Anakin's turning to the Dark Side to have been a little more gradual...for him to have felt a little remorse for the things he was doing...That he embraced so fully, so quickly bothered me. I mean, we all know he's going to turn, but...come on...And, I thought the would have a bigger role in the destruction of the Jedi besides killing a bunch of kids...I mean, yeah, its evil, but somehow I refuse to believe that Clone Troopers took out ALL the jedi save two.

I also would have liked for Obi Wan's victory over Anakin to have been a little more clear cut. One of the guys I saw the movie with said NO WAY! But, I don't think its too much to ask, considering that Obi Wan taught Anakin everything he knows.

I know I've brought up a lot of negatives, but I did like the movie. I'll rank it number three, actually, of all six. Nothing, and I mean nothing beats The Empire Strikes Back.

Except The Clone Wars!

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Friday, May 20, 2005 10:21 AM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.


One other thought, but is Luke the one the Jedi prophecies speak of, or did Anakin actually bring balance to the Force...If it was Anakin, then I'm not sure that the prophecy was correct. What did he do, besides help with a little of the killing...The Clone Troopers did all the real dirty work...

Oh, and I didn't weigh in on how I liked the movie...I will rank it number three of 6...That's pretty high, actually...Over episodes 1 and 2, and Return of the Jedi...

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Friday, May 20, 2005 10:44 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by Static:
I'm sorry. . .the whole "Darth Frankenstein" scene SUCKED. I mean really. Come on. I can't imagine James Earl Jones was able to keep a straight face.

It was nice to see Peter Mayhew working again.

Thank you! God! I couldn't believe that. When he's rising up on the table I wanted to say "It's ALIIIIIIIVE!" but as I was sitting between two voracious "sweeks" I kept mum.

Although, the moment the mask and helmet congealed and we heard Darth Vader's first breath, you canNOT tell me that didn't send a shiver someplace.

The scene where Yoda climbs on to Chewie's back got a lot of applause.

George Lucas really needs to stop writing romantic dialogue. I don't know how he got so lucky with the Han and Leia exchange in "Empire," but that's his sole claim to fame. The more I heard from Anakin and Padame, the more I sank down in my seat and finally covered my eyes and groaned. He just has to stop.

Was it just me, or was Obi-wan's show of anguish over what happened to Anakin just a little, I dunno, reserved? He just practically all but murdered a young man whom he considered a brother, then abandoned him to die on a volcanic embankment.

Frankly, I believe Lucas gave up too much of the true storytelling in favor of the special effects.

The music was AWESOME!

Will I see it again? More than likely, but not for full price.

I draw...therefore I am. http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922
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Friday, May 20, 2005 11:47 AM

SICKDUDE


Quote:

Originally posted by Static:
Christiansen is getting better. He'll do much better in his career I think.



Christiansen did a great job acting in "My Life as a House". He had/has the ability. My wife and I are convinced it is Lucas himself who fosters bad acting out of the actors he gets. Heck, maybe even Jake Lloyd isn't that bad.... Okay, maybe not.

Manwithpez, I feel the prophecy is about Anakin. He certainly has a huge part in killing the Jedi. But he also kills the Sith (and then dies himself). At the end, Luke didn't really kill anyone; he only acted as a catalyst to remind dad.

Agree with most of the comments, but gotta say I liked it!


"Don't say 'ka' until you've tried it." Daniel Jackson

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Friday, May 20, 2005 12:25 PM

MONTANAGIRL


Quote:

Originally posted by Sickdude:
Christiansen did a great job acting in "My Life as a House". He had/has the ability. My wife and I are convinced it is Lucas himself who fosters bad acting out of the actors he gets. Heck, maybe even Jake Lloyd isn't that bad.... Okay, maybe not.


Also, if you get the chance, check out "Shattered Glass." Christiansen plays Stephen Glass, who pulled a Jayson Blair for the New Republic. The guy can act. I blame Lucas for all the woodenness in Eps II and III.

I really was disappointed by Episode III. I had hopes from all the good reviews that it would actually be, oh I don't know, GOOD. It wasn't bad like the first two, but it still wasn't a good movie. (I almost fell asleep three times and kept myself amused by making Monty Python references throughout the movie.) The four friends I went with who are all Star Wars fans felt the same way.

I agree with almost all of Pez's assessments. To flatly contradict stuff that had been said in Empire and Jedi? Did he think people wouldn't notice? And Anakin's descent needed to be slower, more subtle. When I found out the reason he went to the dark side I was incredibly disappointed. That was it? And he switched sides almost at the drop of a hat. It didn't have any substance to it.

When Anankin went to the Jedi temple to kill the "younglings", was I the only one who got a flash from the trailer? "I don't murder children." "I do."

The thought I was left with after the last shot was, "It took them twenty years to build the Death Star?! Hire a different contractor!"

If you can be an idiot, I can be an idiot. - D'Argo

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Friday, May 20, 2005 12:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Frankly, I believe Lucas gave up too much of the true storytelling in favor of the special effects.


I think we should have seen THAT coming way back w/ the remastered versions of the original 3 movies. They were near enough perfect just the way they were.

I'll wait a bit before I catch this S.W.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, May 20, 2005 12:52 PM

AERADIA


VERY LONG – Sorry!

STATIC… I wasn’t disappointed either; was actually pleasantly surprised. After 1 and 2 I loathed Lucas, but then after 3- I get it now.

I agree about the CGI Yoda, but still wish we could’ve seen animatronics for close ups.

I hated the Vader / Frankenstein scene too, but agree with CHANNAIN about the mask and the breath thing. Shivers!!! It would’ve seemed so much more powerful to have Anakin’s anguish seen only through the destruction of the room with a slightly altered Imperial March creating the crescendo of sound.

MANWITHPEZ – Love the Palpatine is father idea, and I’d love to see the Obi Wan / Grievous fight a little more slowly too- I still don’t see how someone without an elastic body was dodging four light sabers.

Loved Obi Wan's fight scenes, but honestly, I never really got this feeling that Anakin was a big bad-a*& light saber artiste. I’d bet on Yoda of Revenge over Anakin.

Now for the love scene stuff… I have to say I get it and I see exactly why what Lucas wrote and put on the screen was exactly right. Anakin grew up a slave who owned nothing. Then he was taken from his mother and eventually she was taken away from him. If you look at his relationship with Padme you see that he was still a little boy who desperately wanted someone of his own that no one could take away from him. Look at his continual desire to say screw the Jedi, screw the Senate, let’s tell everyone. And of course he picks Padme, this bright and shiny and beautiful young woman as his own, like a toddler picking the biggest, shiniest toy.

But it’s not even really about Padme. Lucas wrote it himself- the one thing that Lord Whatever the Wise was afraid of was that someone would take his power. Anakin wanted enough power that no one could ever take anything from him again. He wanted, as he told Padme, to make the world as they wanted it. To make the world as he wanted it to be.

In the first two, I had a hard time believing that Anakin (as Hayden /Jake were playing him) could ever turn into the Darth we know and love. But after three, in particular the scene in the lava flow, I totally buy it. Here’s this little boy with this major hole to fill, who has never been truly and unconditionally acknowledged by anyone- except Palpatine. He’s born chattel; his mom lets the Jedi take him; while he’s off missing mom and training hard, she’s off marrying and raising some guy’s kids; his lover won’t publicly acknowledge him; the Jedi tell him he’s THE ONE, but not yet; he takes what he finds out about Palpatine to Mace who tells him he still doesn’t trust him and when he finds Mace standing over Palpatine, he watches Mace try to break the very code that Anakin would be sanctioned for breaking if the Jedi knew; he’s continually trying to prove himself but it’s never good enough for anyone- except Palpatine. Who BTW also happens to know how to save the bright, shiny toy and doesn’t condemn him for ratting him out to Mace. Aha! Here’s total acceptance, love despite my sins, and all he asks for is my loyalty in return. Palpatine probably seemed to go o be true to Anakin. Especially after Obi Wan let him burn, while Palpatine saved his butt.

I think it’s interesting that Lucas has Anakin off the younglings- wasn’t he once the lost little boy asking for help? Didn’t the very people he asked for help, in his mind, betray him? I don’t think Anakin’s killing the younglings as much as he’s killing the little boy in himself. After that, we see him pretty much embrace that numbness and freedom from fear that anger can bring. And when the bright and shiny turns against him too, he can’t blame himself- it would mean he was wrong to do all he had done. Padme says it’s his fault and he starts to hear it, but then he sees the ultimate scapegoat- the man who should have been Dad, his mentor Obi Wan. Now suddenly both Dad and Padme have turned against him- together! It's super paranoid and a bit psychotic, but it has a ring of truth.

As to Obi Wan’s victory over Anakin, I think it was pretty clear. Obi Wan has not one scratch and Anakin has no legs and only one arm. As to Obi Wan’s reaction to Anakin, I though it pretty poignant. Anakin is crawling like a thing possessed spitting bile and hatred and Obi Wan, a master Jedi who is to leave emotion behind and not give in to anger gives into it fully. He almost cries he is so emotive. And then he allows Anakin to lie there and burn in his hatred, finally realizing that that is not the little boy he thought he knew.

I’m sorry for the long recap, but I thought the third installment was brilliantly done.


Rae

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Friday, May 20, 2005 1:05 PM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by Channain:

George Lucas really needs to stop writing romantic dialogue. I don't know how he got so lucky with the Han and Leia exchange in "Empire," but that's his sole claim to fame. The more I heard from Anakin and Padame, the more I sank down in my seat and finally covered my eyes and groaned. He just has to stop.


George Lucas didn't write that good dialogue
it was written by Lawrence Kasden
(and it really annoys me that people don't know that! LOL)
No, if Lucas had written the first three movies all by himself then they never would have been a hit in the first place.
JMPO of course... you can stone me if you like.

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Friday, May 20, 2005 2:04 PM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.


Ahhh...but, while Darth Vader did kill Palpatine, did Luke not, in fact, bring balance to the force by reawakening the good in his father?

When Darth Vader takes his first breath in the suit...straight goose bumps on the skin it raised!!!

And, I thought the "I know' line was an ad lib from Ford!?!

There were other goose bump moments in Episode 3, and I'll give it credit for that alone...

The very end of the exchange between Paplpatine and Anakin right after Anakin pledges his allegiance to the Dark Side...I thought it was brilliant.

When Senator Organa is protected from the clone troopers by the one youngling...I thought it was great...

Yoda lays the smack down! The two troopers that came after him never had a chance!!! My friends (and I use that term very loosely...it'll be covered in a flylog)were pissed that Yoda seemed to give up so easily...All I could say is that they didn't seem to be watching the same movie I was. Yoda did what he had to do. He went to stop Palpatine, and couldn't do it. I think I was the only one in the theater who actually felt the line "Failed, I have."

Oh MY GOD!!! The opening camera...CGI work I guess...with the swooping POV in the space battle was fantastic...it took the very awesomely done stuff in the space battle scene from Return (one of its best aspects, I think), and then improved head and shoulders above it! Those long graceful swoops were just so...Shiny!

I saw a lot of criticism about The Emperor...I didn't think it was overacted in the least...It was very much in keeping with how he is presented to us later. And the scene where's he's talking to Anakin before he has reveal who he is...Ian McDiarmid goes into the voice for just a few words...and then back out again...That's F___n' METAL!!!

The scene between Yoda, Oragana, and Kenobi near the end was brilliant, I thought. The whole feel of let us go our seperate ways was beautifully done, I thought. But also the presentation of the twins. My God the scenes with the babies on Alderaan and Tatooine were so great...Which leads me to my final point.

Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru on Tattooine. Holding little baby Luke...I didn't tear up at it...But it was so pretty. I mean, I can't think of another way to describe it. Music Swells and all!!!

One more negative, though...Who thought that Padme's delivery scene...and her whole cause of death was total bullshit!!!...Because, I had given the character credit for being stronger than "My husband choked me, and now I'll just DIE"...It was crap!!!

Man, I'm drunk!

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Friday, May 20, 2005 2:47 PM

WHOISRIVER


Just got back from this. One thing is clear to me. Serenity is far, far, far better in terms of script, humour, story, acting, direction, photography, message and pacing. Far better.

I'm sorry... This may be better than the first two, but you know - is this a film you'll look back and remember all the funny lines in, in five years time? Or the character relationships? Or the lighting, photography or direction?

TheInside.org - Firefly Producers NEW TV series

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Friday, May 20, 2005 2:58 PM

HANDMAIDENANDE


Was Episode III perfect? Nope. I know they'll be parts of the film that my friends and I will mock for years to come. But hey, we do that with all five of the other films.

However, I will say that I loved this film. Saw the midnight showing and was so emotionally drained and tired, that I knew I had to see it again to get the full impact. I fell in love with the film my second viewing.

Aeradia, I adored your analysis of Anakin. It was spot on. During the final duel, I remember thinking of him as a spoiled child because of the things he was yelling at Obi-Wan. Of course, I always felt that the dysfuction was on both sides. Look at Padmé. Got into politics at the age of twelve. Queen of an entire planet at fourteen. Never a chance for a normal life. Her sister has got these amazing kids. She meets up with Anakin, who as a boy saw her not as a Queen, but a loyal servant handmaiden. He's someone who's after her not because of her position or her power, but because of her.

ManWithPez, agree with your entire post. The ending was perfect. I was so afraid the final scene would be of Vader, so I was so excited with the Lars and Luke looking out over the horizon. The music during those final minutes were perfect. The minute they did the Leia's theme and Force theme when talking about the twins' future, I started crying.

Also agree with your negative. "She's lost the will to live"? Huh? Hello! You've got two babies who need you. Live for them, dummy! Would have much preferred to have a "We can't figure out what's wrong, but she appears to be dying." Mysterious and doesn't make Padmé look weak.

So happy I've seen both Episode III and Serenity. Both amazing films yet very different. Both with things I didn't care for and both with some weak points. Both films I adore!

Andé


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Friday, May 20, 2005 5:12 PM

RETRO


I liked it. Well, I liked the second half. I was falling asleep during the first half, but it was also one in the morning.
I prefer to think that Padme died from complications in childbirth that arose from being choked nearly to death and then thrown around. I choose to ignore the line about her being perfectly healthy.
And for Franken-Vader, I really didn't like the scene, until a friend told me that supposedly when they were putting him in the costume, Christiansen (or whoever it is behind the mask,) pointed out that it didn't fit right. Lucas supposedly said, "I want it to look like it's something you're not used to wearing. I want it to look akward." Now the looking up to the heavens and screaming, "NOOOOO!" was lame. It would have been more well done if he'd let that out while he was stil strapped to the table. Then perhaps he could have been released, staggered a few steps, then fallen to his knees in grief.
But hey, I'm no George Lucas.

"Just because I choose to wander, it doesn't mean that I am lost..."

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Friday, May 20, 2005 5:12 PM

RETRO


Gorramit. Double posted.

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Friday, May 20, 2005 5:19 PM

ZOID


Greetings, ma famille:

Just got back from seeing "SW Ep III: The Sudden But Inevitable Betrayal" with the kids (aged 15 and 12). We saw it in an amphitheater, middle row, middle of the aisle.

I had heard great things about it and was hoping against hope that the franchise would be redeemed, even if I knew Anakin wouldn't. I have seen every episode starting with IV in the theatre and consider myself a (long-suffering) fan.

A couple of days before the movie premiered, I predicted that it would "look fantastic" with lots of light saber battles, but that it would prove ultimately devoid of characters, have dubious plot points and just enough story to move the special effects along.

Unfortunately, I was proved right on all points. The fact that so many Browncoats seem satisfied by this atrocity in storytelling makes me very concerned about the validity of glowing reports of the Serenity sneak preview. I mean, I know there are lots of folks in the world who really just want to see things get blown up and heads get chopped off, and who would really prefer it if the story would stay out of the way.

...But I truly thought Browncoats were more discerning than that. My only hope is that this is one of those "my movie, right or wrong" type of things that will blow over. Or at the very least, that this effect is not the sole reason for glowing Serenity reviews.

Would any of those who "got it" about Anakin suddenly and without nearly enough justification turning to the Dark Side (except that the first three movies kinda forced him to) care to explain the totally screwed up time lines we're left with? The Death Star could not possibly be at least 18 years from completion, and we know that the first use of its planet-buster weapon was on Alderaan. How did Darth and Obi-Wan get to be so old in Ep IV when Luke was not more than 20?

There's entirely too much wrong with the writing in these last three episodes. This story would never get accepted at a publishing house. It's swiss cheese.

The whole thing reeks of "Okay, we have half of a beautiful bridge on the other side of this yawning chasm (i.e., Eps 4 - 6). Now we just need to build this other half to meet it." Sadly -- for the greatest movie franchise ever -- Lucas is a disastrous engineer. The ends meet, but the construct won't bear its own weight, let alone the weight of its fandom.

Hate me if you will; but I am deeply disappointed by the ending of this once magical story. Now, somebody please tell me that Serenity actually has a story, not just action sequences with convenient plot and characterizations glommed on haphazardly...


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I am really depressed. I just need somebody to hold me and tell me everything will be alright...

P.P.S.
I got a guilty 'kick' out of the Peter Cushing impersonator (Grand Moff Tarkin, alongside Vader and Palpatine overseeing the Death Star's construction). A little heavy on his prosthetics though, don't y'all think? I wonder how the late Mr. Cushing's family feel about the caricaturization?
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Friday, May 20, 2005 5:38 PM

STATIC


Just wanted to say that as a Sociology/Psychology student who works with at-risk juveniles, your analasys of Anakin's character is right out of the textbooks and DSM IV.

That's a compliment, by the way.

I wonder if Lucas just got stupidly lucky, or if he bothered to look into it?

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Friday, May 20, 2005 6:30 PM

COZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
Now, somebody please tell me that Serenity actually has a story, not just action sequences with convenient plot and characterizations glommed on haphazardly...



Fear not, brother zoid. I will tell you.

Damn, but if you don't have such a poignant manner of expression. Nearly breaks my resolve not to spoilerise. Nearly, but not quite. And I won't.

Having seen the flick, IMHO: Serenity actually has a story, and is not strictly made up of action sequences with glommed on characterisations and plot sequences. It has plenty of action and lotsa characterisation... and is one damn fine story.

Granted, I'm not big on faith, and my credentials are, at best, spotty, but I'm just saying, if you have any faith in the storytelling qualities of Serenity, your faith will be rewarded.

Well, okay, potentially condescending of me to speak for anyone else. Such is not my intent. How else can I put this? Amongst other attributes, I'm a mass entertainment cynic. My job involves watching lots, lots of movies. Including SWep3, natch. Almost all of them rapidly fade into memory's oblivion, such that I pay attention only to the technical details relevant to my job (timer). Serenity drew my attention... completely. It still rings true: I'm drawn to remember each detail that my wee brain can hold. Can't think of many other flicks made me wanna do that.

Just this one other (subjective) observation: there's a certain honesty to Serenity. The kind that makes me want to abuse italics.

Right. End o' rant.



http://www3.sympatico.ca/ldnemeth/images/blackjacksilver.GIF

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Friday, May 20, 2005 6:37 PM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.


I know that he looked into it, because Lucas couldn't realy understand why people had a problem with Anakin in Episode 2. He thought people would understand that that is the way a "misunderstood" youth would act.

But that's no excuse for bad acting.

And, let's be honest...Did you ever go to a Star Wars movie to see good acting...Of course you didn't. At least, I didn't. Star Wars represents the ultimate escapism. Or at least it did. I remember going to the drive in as a very small child to see Episode 4. I remember my father taking us multiple times to see Empire. I remember waiting with glee for Return of the Jedi. Even going so far as to know that whatever bullshit they're feeding us now, Revenge of the Jedi was the original title, and not something else. I mean, Lucasfilm even admits the Blue Harvest was the fake name for the movie, so why try to start some horse shit now?

So, being the film buff that I am now, do I look back at my youth and consider it misspent because I wanted to see Star Wars...Hell NO!

I mean there truly is no original story in Star Wars...anywhere. It is a series of film written by an editor(at best), directed by a bunch of second unit people (except Kasdan...I'm convinced that Lucas is a fantastic second unit director), and acted by professional actors that found out it was okay for them to no longer try to even look like they were acting.

Does this make me not want to see a Star Wars movie any less...Of course not. If they said there was going to be another one in three years..I'd go see it. In a heartbeat.

How does this affect Serenity? Not in the slightest. I think that Browncoats are discerning enough to know shit from Shinola. We see what we want to in Episode 3. And we don't argue the worst points like continuity, bad editing(and there's loads of it, truly). We keep true to heart, because, let's face it, if you like Sci-Fi, then you have to accept that there is a stigma that goes with, courtesy of fans probably a lot older than whoever is reading this now.

Serenity will succeed or fail based on its own merits, and not what the current picture of Sci-Fi at the time will be, I think. We all want to see it succeed. And we already know that the writing will be better, because it's written by a WRITER. Not a director, and definitely not by an editor!

We have a much more talented cast, and in roles that they know their way around. We have a supporting cast that is almost above top knotch. And, we have a core audience that isn't waiting for a three foot tall special effect to whip out a laser sword and attmepts feats of derring-do that we haven't seen or even known they were capable of. That's is why Serenity will be better than anything I've seen lately. Joss Whedon has already proven that he uses special effects as part of the story , and not as the driving force.

George Lucas can make no such claims.

By the way, I'm drunker than I was before I wrote this!

Word to your mutha!


Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Friday, May 20, 2005 6:46 PM

THATWEIRDGIRL


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
Greetings, ma famille:

There's entirely too much wrong with the writing in these last three episodes. This story would never get accepted at a publishing house. It's swiss cheese.

Sadly -- for the greatest movie franchise ever -- Lucas is a disastrous engineer. The ends meet, but the construct won't bear its own weight, let alone the weight of its fandom.


I feel ya Zoid. I have to walk on eggshells around folks because they loved it and I didn't. I keep trying to find things about it that I liked. The best i can say is that it wrapped up most of the story. The acting, eh. The dialogue, eh. The emotional range, eh. I felt more love between Organa and baby Leia than I did with Annie and Padme. Does that seem right to you? anywho. I did enjoy myself. it was a lovely day, I was Kaylee-ized, and I was surrounded by friends.

Quote:


P.P.S.
I got a guilty 'kick' out of the Peter Cushing impersonator (Grand Moff Tarkin, alongside Vader and Palpatine overseeing the Death Star's construction).


I thought that was great.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
Can we not revel in our cyber-love?

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Friday, May 20, 2005 6:47 PM

COZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by manwithpez:
Joss Whedon has already proven that he uses special effects as part of the story , and not as the driving force.

George Lucas can make no such claims.

By the way, I'm drunker than I was before I wrote this!



Now, don't I wish I could have written it so succinctly! And, I ain't as drunker as you think we is.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/ldnemeth/images/blackjacksilver.GIF

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Saturday, May 21, 2005 5:10 AM

SHINEY


I thought about Padme passing away like that is that does anyone know how use of the Force like that affects the body ? Can the Force in essence sap the body of the will to live without letting outward signs of it show ? because frankly we all know that the Padme we have been presented with for the past few movies wouldn't give up just like that! When Naboo was invaded did she give in ? NO! She fought, but she isn't Jedi and hence she is as susceptible to the Force as any creature.

I also got very angry and cried that the jedi got massacred so easily. The only jedi we see fight back and almost win is the Padawan Boy when Bail gets to the Temple. BTW is the rumour true that the Padawan is actually played by George Lucas' son Jett (sp?) ?

"Oh My God It's Grotesque! Oh And There's Something In A Jar."
"I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you."

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Saturday, May 21, 2005 8:39 AM

NAKEDANDARTICULATE


zoid,for someone who has seen the "bdm" i must stress that it is far better than ep3. i dont even want to compare them because that would be an insult to serenity.all i can say is this serenity draws you in from the very beginning(seriously for those peeps who wak in 5-10 min late will hate the movie because they will be lost) the acting is great(and yet they dont take themselves too seriously--which i loved) a story with a purpose,great f'in comedy,and an ending that will make you feel like you are there with the bdh,(something i didnt get from ep3--too many cuts,i couldnt commit to the scene before it was onto the next-----ohhh and the ending with obi giving luke away,made me laugh because it looked like he was a bad dad you know"hey can you hold onto him for a minute i gotta go to the bathrooooooom!(obi runs off)"---meaning NO DIALOGUE! ? ----GRRRARRRGH! i gotta stop talking about this) the first hour of ep 3 i was falling asleep the next 30 min was good then another slump until the last 30 min felt sooooo rushed! when i was watching serenity there is amoment where i realized the movie was almost over,i looked down at my watch and sure enough an hour and 40 mintes had already passed and it felt like no time had passed at all.also when i left ep3 20 min later most of the film had washed away from me---i hated that! after seeing serenity we talked about it from midnight until 4am! THAT IS WHAT MAKES A GREAT F*CKIN MOVIE! ONE THAT STAYS WITH YOU LOOOONG AFTER ITS OVER! and thats it,whew,sorry for the rant but i wanted to love this movie,i wasnt sucked into the hype as i was with the other ones and the fact that this is trhe LAST ONE makes me sad.but i think im done with star wars as i said on another thread.,..here is my t-shirt design to wear all summer long at other films----------------------

serenity was better.

"Hamsters is nice."

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Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:00 AM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES


Quote:

Originally posted by Static:

I liked the vaguely "Godfather-esque" feel to the ambush/slaughter of the Jedi. If it were me, I'd have gone ahead with a full tribute to Coppola and had the ambush scenes take place, mixed with Palpatine's speech to the Senate.



"Nooooooooooooooooo!" And with that, cinema's greatest villan became a self-parody. Surely someone (Spielberg, I'm looking at you) should have told him that this was not the moment to indulge in film school cleverness.

Yes - totally agree with you on the wasted op with the Order 66 (is that the most sinister number, like 42 is the funniest?) - though it contained the one brave moment in the entire film when Annie's lightsaber sparked up (but younglings? Really - how many times in the film did Ewan cover his mouth as if to hide a smirk?).

Just didn't do it for me - the opening was messy, the middle was clunky - Williams score was fantastic and the lightsaber battles were good, but I though Sam Jackson said he didn't go out like a punk - looked pretty Ashton washisfaced- to me.

Yoda's Bruce Lee and quick eye open, the gollum noises from Grievous, a pointless visit to the wookie planet and a meaningless cameo from Chewie - I thought he had something to do with Luke and Leia's flight according to Mayhew? Or did that get cut - because I'm presuming that Ecclestone filmed more than just a walk on as Tarkin before Vader crossed his arms with his brother from the hood.

Good job Padme had a couple of names in mind for the kids as well, given how little time she was on screen.

And what was that with Qu'Gon.

That said, my initial reaction when the music came on was unprintable so I am mellowing to the film - not a lot, but a little.

Deep breaths.



"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:17 AM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
Would any of those who "got it" about Anakin suddenly and without nearly enough justification turning to the Dark Side (except that the first three movies kinda forced him to) care to explain the totally screwed up time lines we're left with? The Death Star could not possibly be at least 18 years from completion, and we know that the first use of its planet-buster weapon was on Alderaan. How did Darth and Obi-Wan get to be so old in Ep IV when Luke was not more than 20?
P.P.S.
I got a guilty 'kick' out of the Peter Cushing impersonator (Grand Moff Tarkin, alongside Vader and Palpatine overseeing the Death Star's construction). A little heavy on his prosthetics though, don't y'all think? I wonder how the late Mr. Cushing's family feel about the caricaturization?



Palpatine was played by The Doctor - Christopher Ecclestone (someone tell me I'm not dreaming) - so I assume there is something on the cutting room floor.

Second - timelines annoyed the hell out of me as well. Annie (where was Daddy Warbcuks?) was far to young IMO to become Vader - because everything happened so fast. How old was he compared to Padme? Compared to Obi Wan (and the Obi Wan we see in the first film?).

The rushed turn against the Jedi didn't make any kind of sense either. The police force of the galaxy that it appears everyone is brought up to believe is good - just seconds after the Senate are looking for a "poster boy" Jedi (yeeesh) they suddenly believe, with no evidence, the word of the most evil looking man ever - and then apparently hours or days (who knows with the screwed up timeline within the film) later nobody seems to give a flying that an entire temple of children has been slaughtered (sure, say its propaganda taking over, but the Senate itself would have known otherwise, surely).

Cheap, lazy writing.

But maybe Palpatine had the Death Star on lay away, and he totally kept meaning to get it out, but there was just one more bill to pay...



"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:48 AM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.


Tell me I'm not the only one that noticed that General Grievious sounded like Dark Helmet!

Since Grievious is a cyborg...maybe that's Rick Moranis's heart beating in there!!!

I kept waiting for him to say "The Droid Armies will win The Clone Wars because good is dumb."

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:55 AM

ZAPHODB


Quote:

Palpatine was played by The Doctor - Christopher Ecclestone (someone tell me I'm not dreaming) - so I assume there is something on the cutting room floor.

Ian McDiarmid played Palpatine.


Industrial Looniee & Madness - http://www3.telus.net/vchrusch

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Sunday, May 22, 2005 5:31 PM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS


I really enjoyed this movie. I've got to say, the naysayers probably never understood what Star Wars was about in the first place.

My negative goes against the lovely Natalie Portman in her scene with Ewan McGregor. That seemed so forced.

However, this is the film I've been waiting for. Loved the parting shots seeing the droids on the ship as we first see them in A New Hope, and Luke's uncle staring at the horizon, just as we first see Luke do in A New Hope.

Man, I wish he would have shown more of the battle on the Wookies planet. That was so awesome! I hope there's more of that when the DVD is released.

Great movie. Highly recommended by BlackoutNights.

"You're either in or you're out, and I'm playing to the in."—Greg Dulli

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Monday, May 23, 2005 8:33 AM

AERADIA


Quote:

I feel ya Zoid. I have to walk on eggshells around folks because they loved it and I didn't. I keep trying to find things about it that I liked.


I hope you don't feel like you have to walk on eggshells around here / us. I really felt III was redeeming, but I'm not gonna’ go to pieces if others didn't see it that way. Where would argumentative people like myself be if there were no differing opinions?

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Monday, May 23, 2005 11:05 AM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES


Quote:

Originally posted by ZaphodB:
Ian McDiarmid played Palpatine.





Doh! Mof Tarkin. Guy with the pink bunny slippers. Now that would have been a nice touch for the cameo.

I'll go boil my head now and see if I can remember which one is Luke and which one Leia. So hard to tell with all the taping down of breasts going on.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Monday, May 23, 2005 11:31 AM

NAKEDANDARTICULATE


BLACKOUTNIGHTS said-
I really enjoyed this movie. I've got to say, the naysayers probably never understood what Star Wars was about in the first place.


So it was always about a horrible story and cgi effects? Why dont you go watch the original trilogy and let me know what I don't understand. I am so sick of Star Wars "fans" who blindly go along with what Lucas has done.Is this his baby? Yes,but I can still review these films right?


"Hamsters is nice."

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Monday, May 23, 2005 11:40 AM

MAUGWAI


Quote:

Misguided By Voices wrote:
The rushed turn against the Jedi didn't make any kind of sense either. The police force of the galaxy that it appears everyone is brought up to believe is good - just seconds after the Senate are looking for a "poster boy" Jedi (yeeesh) they suddenly believe, with no evidence, the word of the most evil looking man ever - and then apparently hours or days (who knows with the screwed up timeline within the film) later nobody seems to give a flying that an entire temple of children has been slaughtered (sure, say its propaganda taking over, but the Senate itself would have known otherwise, surely).



Except that that's exactly how Hitler came to power. The Emperor's troops are called "storm troopers" after all. I'd say the Emperor is heavily based on Hitler. He completely convinced an entire nation that Jews were bad and had actively taken up arms against the government. The Emperor convinced the Senate that the Jedi had done the same.

That part I actually did believe.

(edited) Although it would have been easier to buy if we'd seen a little of people fearing the Jedi. They do that in Knights of the Old Republic, but not in the movies.(/ed)

I liked the movie all in all, but I gotta agree that that "died of a broken heart" thing was lame lame lame. Bones McKoy wouldn't put up with that kind of medical ignorance.



"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Monday, May 23, 2005 11:59 AM

LOBOHAN


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
I got a guilty 'kick' out of the Peter Cushing impersonator (Grand Moff Tarkin, alongside Vader and Palpatine overseeing the Death Star's construction). A little heavy on his prosthetics though, don't y'all think? I wonder how the late Mr. Cushing's family feel about the caricaturization?



Actually he was played by Wayne Pygram, Scorpius from Farscape. He probably didn't need too much in the way of makeup.

"If they take the ship, they’ll rape us to death, eat our flesh and sew our skins into their clothing, and if we’re very, very lucky, they’ll do it in that order."

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Monday, May 23, 2005 2:29 PM

CRANSTON


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
...But I truly thought Browncoats were more discerning than that. My only hope is that this is one of those "my movie, right or wrong" type of things that will blow over. Or at the very least, that this effect is not the sole reason for glowing Serenity reviews.



I'm certainly no Prequel apologist (I find large swaths of Eps 1 and 2 unwatchable, due to faults in both conception and execution), but I did enjoy Episode 3 quite a lot, despite several reservations. Not because of any misplaced "loyalty" to the series, but because I genuinely responded to the story being told, and (more or less) the way it was being presented. I'm sorry that you didn't, although I can certainly understand why you and many others did not. I may agree the next time I see it. Who knows?

Quote:

Would any of those who "got it" about Anakin suddenly and without nearly enough justification turning to the Dark Side (except that the first three movies kinda forced him to) care to explain the totally screwed up time lines we're left with? The Death Star could not possibly be at least 18 years from completion, and we know that the first use of its planet-buster weapon was on Alderaan. How did Darth and Obi-Wan get to be so old in Ep IV when Luke was not more than 20?



While the prequels do have major deficiencies, I don't see the timeline as one of them.

1. The Death Star. It doesn't seem out of line for the DS to have taken 20 years to construct. You're building a spacecraft *the size of a small planet*, with probably at least a marginal degree of secrecy. How long would that take?

2. Obi-Wan and Vader. Let's say Obi-Wan was about 20 in Episode 1; that would make him about 30 in Ep 2, and somewhere in his mid-30s in Ep 3. Add 20 years to that, and he should be in his mid-50s in the original Star Wars. Alec Guinness was 62 when he shot the original film. I guess that doesn't seem all that far off to me. I mean, Nick Brendon was 26 when he played a 16-year-old Xander!


(And how old, exactly, does Darth Vader look in Episode IV? Hard to tell, really....)


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Monday, May 23, 2005 3:01 PM

HKCAVALIER


"Right, so in order to save my wife from dying in childbirth, I'll just have to kill these innocent kids here, yeah, I'm the good guy..."

No. It's crap. Meaningless unjustified filler. The reason why Obi-Wan's grief on the volcano seems perfunctory is because all that leads up to it--Anankin's turn to the darkside to save his wife--is bogus. I really wasn't interested in how a self-centered punk with anger management issues becomes Darth Vader. I was hoping for a little more.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 6:03 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS


How uncivilized. Seems I touched a nerve...which, of course, was the intention. Nothing personal, bub. We're all in this together.

I like Star Wars but am hardly a die-hard fan. I don't own any of the movies in any form and absolutely hated The Phantom Menance and Attack of the Clones.

As for what you don't understand...

"If you have to ask, you'll never know."

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 6:13 AM

EMBERS


one thing is for sure...
R2D2 got all the good lines.

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 6:23 AM

NAKEDANDARTICULATE


touche
"so be it,jedi"

"Hamsters is nice."

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:10 AM

FRAY101


Quote:

Originally posted by Shiney:
I thought about Padme passing away like that is that does anyone know how use of the Force like that affects the body ?



Sorry if someone's already commented on this...

I read - somewhere - that Padme was supposedly sick during the pregnancy because no human had ever had so many midichlorians in their body before. I think this was in one of the Making Of books - obviously no such mention in the film.

OK, so maybe we don't really want to go down the midichlorian route (where did that nonsense come from anyway) but that would have been a better excuse than "She's lost the will to live."



_____________________________________
"Why would I want to leave Serenity?"
"Can't think of a reason."


Over 100 Serenity screencaps now available at www.destinything.com (yep, bought me a proper name!)

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:48 AM

BEOWULF


Quote:

I read - somewhere - that Padme was supposedly sick during the pregnancy because no human had ever had so many midichlorians in their body before . . . that would have been a better excuse than "She's lost the will to live."

I'm seeing this complaint in several places. Is there some reason to think Palpatine is lying when he tells Vader that his anger killed her?

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:53 AM

FRAY101


I assume that the word was put about that Anakin (or "someone") had killed Padme so Anakin would assume the babies had died too and wouldn't look to track them down. Maybe it was Palpatine's way of saying you've no way back now.


_____________________________________
"Why would I want to leave Serenity?"
"Can't think of a reason."


Over 100 Serenity screencaps now available at www.destinything.com (yep, bought me a proper name!)

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Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:04 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES


Quote:

Originally posted by maugwai:
Except that that's exactly how Hitler came to power. The Emperor's troops are called "storm troopers" after all. I'd say the Emperor is heavily based on Hitler. He completely convinced an entire nation that Jews were bad and had actively taken up arms against the government. The Emperor convinced the Senate that the Jedi had done the same.



True - Lucas ripped every turn of his story from either history or other stories, but he forgot that you have to make it scan.

Phantom Menace and Attack of the Crap worked to an extent because they had the feel of slow build up, but the pay off wasn't right. With Hitler he took years to rise up and was able to use economic conditions to his advantage - the Republic appeared all shiny and economically on the up.

Lucas asked the audience to make far too big a leap for him - better writing, less convuluted plotting and a slightly more complex shadowing of Hitler's rise to power might have worked.



"I threw up on your bed"

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Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:21 PM

EARLY


Quote:

Originally posted by manwithpez:
One other thought, but is Luke the one the Jedi prophecies speak of, or did Anakin actually bring balance to the Force...If it was Anakin, then I'm not sure that the prophecy was correct. What did he do, besides help with a little of the killing...The Clone Troopers did all the real dirty work...




If someone has already made this point forgive me but I didn't read everyone's post. The chosen one was to destroy the Sith according to Obi-Wan and Mace Windu. Anakin did destroy the Sith...remember...it never said he couldn't join them 1st.

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Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:57 PM

SIMONWHO


I wanted to like this movie. I had my expectations lowered. I was going to give it every chance possible.

But it was just terrible. The occasional bright spot (Anakin being dismembered, Yoda's fight scene, the four lightsabres against one battle) but everything else was a car wreck. Just appalling.

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Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:34 PM

MONTANAGIRL


I hear you, Simon. Did you try making Monty Python references? It helped me and a couple of my friends make it through the movie with some enjoyment.

"One day, lad, all this will be yours ..."
"What - the curtains?"

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Thursday, May 26, 2005 6:23 PM

LTNOWIS


Well, I haven't been posting here much lately, but I gotta say I liked it, especially the Obi-wan - Anakin verbal confrontation at the end. Lot's of very powerful moments. But it wasn't perfect. The Death Star timeline issue bugged me some, since Death Star 2 was 2/3 built 4 years after Episode 4, but the die-hard fans are saying it might just be a prototype. Also, I didn't like the way the battle droids spoke to each other in the first half; it really didn't make sense. But overall, a good movie.

Parallels besides Hitler:

Roman Republic to Roman Empire:
Augustus Caesar was able to become a dictator because the Romans were worn down from a ruinous civil war, like the Clone Wars in here.

Oedipus:
Like Oedipus, when Anakin tried to avoid his what was predestined (Padme's death) he made it come true.

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 9:48 AM

LITWOLF689


Does it make me a bad person that I laughed when Anikin was just a stump of burning flesh with no arms and legs? Cuz I did laugh.

I thought it was really sad how Padime died though. That she had lost the will to live. Very sad and sweet.

But the rest of the movie was really bad. The effects were okay, like usual. I thought the robot general was pretty cool. But the story line was terrible! The worst of the Star Wars movies

"Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FREAKIN' SHOW! I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damnit." ~Joss

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 9:57 AM

THEGERG


Agree with the whole, "good to see Mayhew working again" thread! it's a pity they wipe his..... Oooh! Not spoiling it for anyone am I?

I met the real Darth Vader as a child, I was 11, it was 1978, he was dressed as Darth and opened our town fete! His name was Prowse! Later to become Green Cross Code Man! Now that's a duty you wouldn't expect many Sith Lords to undertake! Safety whilst crossing the road does not a Sith Lord make!

But I was shocked to find that 'ole Darth had a westcountry accent! It threw me for many months until I realised the horrible truth - that voice and person were not the same! Prowses voice as Vader was not his own.

However! The one thing I do know is that the fete opening with a westcountry Darth Vader was far better than Star Wars 3! Enough said!


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Sunday, May 29, 2005 3:21 PM

FIREFLYWILDCARD1


Well, I saw SW III tonight. I have a mixed reaction to it. I liked some parts, the majority I didn't much care for. The movie as a whole was too long, my rear was much too sore for a mediocre movie.

The parts I liked:

R2D2 was hilarious through most of it. Loved his parts.

The light-saber fights were awesome.

More Ewan hotness...lol

Fantastic Four trailer, Batman Begins trailer, Mr. & Mrs. Smith trailer.

The parts I didn't like:

No Serenity trailer, though I watched SW III at the same theater that showed it before HGTTG.

The dialogue was just horrible. I expected horrible dialogue but it was even worse than I expected. I know SW isn't about the dialogue and it was somewhat the acting as well in this part. Ewan could have delivered some of his lines better, as could many of the actors. But mainly it was how the dialogue was written. The movie might have done better with no dialogue at all (not really but it made me somewhat wish for that at times).

The timeline screwups. What was the significance of the little girl at Padme's funeral? They made a point of showing her, but who was she? No explaination and we're left wondering. How could Leia remember her mother's laughter and other such things if Padme died in childbirth? Was Leia mixing up Bail's wife and Padme when talking to Luke in ROTJ?

I do not understand how Anakin caught on fire in the lava pit. I didn't see if a spark landed on him (that's the only thing I can think of that would set him ablaze). I mean that whole time Obi and him were riding (presumably) hot metal things down the lava flow, neither caught on fire. And if it was just by proximatey (sp?) that Ani caught on fire, then both of them should have been burnt to crisps long before that scene.

Alright now on to a possible solution to other comments made in this thread about the Death Star. Consider this:

The Death Star is a new concept even for that era. It will undoubedly take a long time to build. Look at the International Space Station for a real life example. It has taken the countries building it a long time to finish it and it still is not complete and there are numerous problems with those parts that are completed. Granted it hasn't been 20 years since they actually started construction on it, but it has been close to 10 years and they aren't done yet. So I can see how building the first Death Star could take 20 years and the building the second was much quicker because they already had the know how from building the first.

Just some random thought on the movie:

The wookies. That part was ok. Though I would have liked to see Han in there as well. Since there is only a 20 year difference, then Han could have been as old as 20 in Ep III. We aren't really told how old he is in the Original Trilogy. He looked old enough to be 40. Chewie without Han just isn't right.

Think my ramblings have gone on long enough.

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Friday, June 17, 2005 8:00 PM

DARTHMOWZY


I was wondering the same thing about the little girl at padme's funeral. Who could that be?

I did a google search: "Padme's funeral" "little girl"

This web site is the only result that came up without the words "cried like a little girl" in it.

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