Fox Screws Actors and Us by Succatash

NEWS HEADLINE DISCUSSIONS

Fox Screws Actors and Us

POSTED BY: SUCCATASH
UPDATED: Friday, March 7, 2003 20:21
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VIEWED: 4915
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:13 PM

Tue Feb 25, 3:01 PM ET
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030225/ap_on_en_mo
/actors_merger_2

"In a deal negotiated last year among the unions and the Fox network... but not before agreeing to let producers pay some actors the lower AFTRA rates — a compromise that pleased neither union.... "

"....The unions already have joined independent TV producers in lobbying the Federal Communications Commission (news - web sites) to prevent networks from airing only shows that the networks produce, something critics say has squelched diversity in programming and led to a glut of inexpensive "reality" shows.

The reduction in scripted shows has meant fewer jobs for actors."

Has YOUR mom seen Firefly, lately?

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Tuesday, February 25, 2003 7:21 PM

SLOWSMURF

For those of us who don't get what you just said, huh?

I understood the reality shows bad for actors part, but not the rest.

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Tuesday, February 25, 2003 8:45 PM

SUCCATASH

Sorry for being confusing.

The TV/Radio actors union and Movie actors union are joining, because life sucks for them.

TV/Radio actors make less than movie actors.

A FOX movie was recently filmed digitally, and Fox decided that they only needed to pay TV standard salaries, instead of movie standard salaries, since they didn't use film. The actors got "screwed" in that deal. By Fox.

Thought it was worth mentioning, especially the part where the two unions are joining in a fight against Reality TV.

The actors are suffering, and we, the viewers are too, because Reality TV sucks, and there's nothing to watch anymore.

Has YOUR mom seen Firefly, lately?

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Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:34 AM

TJANUS11

While I am appalled by reality television myself, since I'm not really interested in watching preening, talentless wannabes backstab, lie and "compete" for their fifteen minutes, I gotta say: the ratings are there, the numbers are big and it looks like reality TV is here to stay.

Does this mean scripted dramas and comedies are going the way of the dodo? I doubt it. And there may not even be fewer of them because, with the proliferation of cable channels wanting to produce their own stuff, it will just be spread out around the dial more. I now watch The Shield on FX and Dead Zone on USA, channels which didn't even rate a glance a couple of years back because they were full of re-runs and old movies.

We're in a classic period of glut right now. Game shows were all the rage a couple of years back and now they are again missing from prime time. Reality shows will burn themselves down to a few glowing embers--Survivor and Real World seem like institutions these days -- as the more outrageous concepts get used up and begin to bore even the lowbrows who flock to such things. There are, after all, limits. At least, I hope so. Eventually the next logical step will be to make death an element of the game and I hope to God we as a society don't ever go there.

*Sigh*. Where is Paddy Chayevsky when you need him? He was satirizing this trend thirty years before it crested in the movie Network.

Tj

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Saturday, March 1, 2003 8:02 AM

TALLGRRL

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Tue Feb 25, 3:01 PM ET
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030225/ap_on_en_mo
/actors_merger_2
"In a deal negotiated last year among the unions and the Fox network..."

"....something critics say has squelched diversity in programming and led to a glut of inexpensive "reality" shows.

HBO, Showtime, Bravo, A&E et al...here I come!!!

ADDENDUM:
Actually, it's not just the actors and the audience that are being screwed.
Don't forget the writers. Of course this slide into the abyss all began with the threat of a writer's strike.
*sigh*

TLLGRRL
"Take me, Sir. Take me hard."

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Wednesday, March 5, 2003 3:29 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Mind boggling.

Pretty soon I suppose FOX will have nothing but CGI shows w/ voiceovers so they don't have to pay actors/actresses. Even better, they could go back and take all of the audio from all their past shows and splice it together for audio for their new programs, that way they don't have to pay for the voiceovers either. Then, they could train chimps to do the work of their staff so they don't have to pay them either.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 7:06 AM

FEENIX

Well i have to admit, i was intrigued to see some reality TV, fear factory is histerical at points, because its amazing to see what people will do/eat/etc for 50k, and i was interested to see the end of joe millionare, cause the premise was interesting and i wanted to know if the woman would smack him silly for lieing, but despite the occasionally interesting premise, most of these shows a) run on too long, or b) are completely moronic (married by america, another survivor). The only one good reality show i saw, well 2, one was bootcamp, but it got waaay old to fast, and the other was combat missions...which was good the whole way through. i think firefly in some respects WAS sorta like a reality show, In a way that is why it was so good, It was ordinary people, in extradorinary situations, they werent all powerful slayers, or rich people who could throw money at a problem to make it go away. They were like normal people, working their respective butts off, to feed themselves, and keep alive, and they have fun along the way, im rambling now, ill attempt to form more coherent thoughts next time i post....i just get really passionate on this issue: FOX you blew it big time,

F U FOX, FU, FU ALL, I AM TIRED OF THIS CRAP!

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 7:59 AM

KAYTHRYN

Quote:
Originally posted by FeeNiX:
i think firefly in some respects WAS sorta like a reality show, In a way that is why it was so good, It was ordinary people, in extradorinary situations, they werent all powerful slayers, or rich people who could throw money at a problem to make it go away. They were like normal people, working their respective butts off, to feed themselves, and keep alive, and they have fun along the way, im rambling now,...

Yes you are, but we all do.

Now it’s my turn.
**takes a deep breath and tries to hold back sizzling contempt for reality shows**
As much as I hate to admit it, I’ve watched bits of these reality shows to see if they are any good. FeeNiX, I see what you mean about how Firefly is in some way like real , original reality shows, but today’s reality shows are not even close to reality. Two people marrying each other sight unseen? 20 women competing for the affections , jewelry, and possible marriage proposal of a millionaire who lies to them on national television? A group of people trying to survive on an island, (they are given rice, and canned goods like doggy treats when the accomplish a good mission) while plotting and scheming dramatic alliances and competing in contests to win immunity tokens so they won’t get voted off. Yeah, that sounds real to me. I can totally relate to the stress of immunity tokens, obstacle courses, and the disgusting plethora of lies. Reality shows used to be reality caught on camera, just another day, but now, reality is just unscripted nonsense. And it’s not even that anymore. These shows are directed, coached, and edited to show exactly what they want views to see. Now, with Firefly as an example, the completely scripted and directed shows seem more real than the reality shows. There, that’s my daily allowance of rambling for now.

-------------------------------------
Jayne: Hey, I didn't fight in no war. Best of luck, though.

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 8:28 AM

LJSQUARED

The only reality show I ever really watched was Big Brother (1st series, Australian version). There was an interesting scenario where it looked like a "character" (the gay guy, shock horror) was back-stabbing the rest of the "cast", being their greatest friend here and voting them out there, while enticing the others to do the same. The end result was when he finally got voted into the 3 potential leavers group he was voted out by the public. It soon became obvious towards the end of the show that the entire thing was a result of some very clever editing. This was shown through previously unseen footage and cast interviews.

When they have SOOO much footage its very easy to make a passable soapie. REALITY SHOWS SUCK

Firefly@Trekvideo.com
http://www.trekvideo.com/firefly

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 11:43 AM

FEENIX

dont misunderstand me fellow brown coats, none of these shows can come close to touching something like firefly, Firefly was the ultimate reality show, about beleivably real characters, living a real life, even though it might be in the future, Firefly was incredibly original, and one reason i will love it till they bury me 6 feet under. I guess Joss' problem (in the eyes of the network execs) was that his show was Too real, people you can relate to, and no all powerful super person. again the rambling, im just super pissed off about the cancelation, if it wasnt for the simpsons i would rip the fox channel out of my TV

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 1:09 PM

LORA

Quote:
"Firefly was the ultimate reality show, about beleivably real characters, living a real life, even though it might be in the future, Firefly was incredibly original...people you can relate to, and no all powerful super person."

We keep coming back to this. The crew of Serenity was a family we could know and love. People with faults, with principles, with weaknesses, and with their own mental dragons to slay. No superheroes, no supermodels, and no simple stereotypes. Reality shows tend to be edited to take a human and flatten her out to be a stereotype. Joe Millionaire was set up to work off of stereotypes from the ground up: lying scum seeks favors of pretty, successful, women dreaming of Mr. Right. I didn't watch enough of it to critique it properly, and what I did see didn't tell me anything about any of the players' characters. I keep wondering: who was cheaper, the man or the women?

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?" Zoe, War Stories

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 2:21 PM

KOOROGI

Mebbe FOX would have kept the show if they'd shown more of Inara. And I don't mean more face time. Look at what took Firefly's time slot: Fastlane. The opening sequence features a simple shot around a swimming pool where myriad women are walking around in bikinis. For no reason.

Burn the land, boil the sea
You can't take the sky from me

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 2:33 PM

SUCCATASH

I'd like to disagree with many of the above mentioned statements.

First, Firefly is not the ultimate reality show. Reality shows are bad. They involve real people, instead of actors.

Reality TV shows thrive on viewers without lives, who need to live vicariously through their neighbor.

A really good fiction story can have well-developed characters, with strengths and weaknesses, and they can seem real. But that does NOT mean it is a Reality show.

Please do not confuse good acting and writing with Reality TV.

Has YOUR mom seen Firefly, lately?

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 3:23 PM

FEENIX

i think part of My personal point is that the crew of firelfy in many ways are portrayed as being more real, then anyone in those reality shows. What i wanna know? how did anna nicole smith get a SECOND season and firefly didnt get a full first one? i cant believe she gets better ratings then firfly did.

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 4:04 PM

SUCCATASH

No shit, it makes me feel sick. I understand what you meant about "real".

How can such garbage be tolerated? I wish I wasn't smart, so I could live a stupid happy sheep Reality TV loving piece of shit life, ready to go to war and kiss G.W.'s ass.

Has YOUR mom seen Firefly, lately?

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 4:15 PM

KAYTHRYN

Since we are on a disagreeing note, I have to just mention this,

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash
Reality shows are bad. They involve real people, instead of actors.

Personally, I think both show have actors. Firefly just has better actors, better plot, and well, better everything. Oh, and Joss, that always helps.

-------------------------------------
Jayne: Hey, I didn't fight in no war. Best of luck, though.

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 6:00 PM

SUCCATASH

You are absolutely right.

They get paid. They get told what to say and HOW TO ACT. It's scary how everyone accepts it as REAL. Half of them are out of work actors, and the rest are wanna be actors.

I wouldn't feed my dog Reality TV.

Has YOUR mom changed the channel on Reality TV, lately?

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Thursday, March 6, 2003 9:04 PM

RUXTON

Concerning "reality" shows, some of you may find some agreement with my analysis of "Firefly," in my letter to Gail Berman of a month ago. (Letter, not email, and I sent copies to four top Fox execs. And got zero response.) So here's my now-open letter to Fox:
-------------
Dear Ms. Berman:

I recently watched the "Firefly" pilot for the third time -- though at my age I seldom watch anything more than once -- and enjoyed it thoroughly once again. That show leaves a taste in the mouth akin to that of the finest wines. "Firefly" gives us undercurrents of many flavors that demand another taste, and then another, each as satisfying as the first, all to be enjoyed with respect over the fullness of time.

This magically crafted drama could easily be the highlight of the decade in excellent TV broadcasting. It has vast potential. Many millions of intelligent viewers would flock to Fox for "Firefly," if only they knew about it. I suspect your advertisers would love to tap into an intelligent audience paying rapt attention to everything that goes on during the broadcast, most of whom have more-than-adequate incomes.

Looking back, I realize Fox advertised "Firefly" poorly. There was little mention of it during the World Series. Fox failed "Firefly," not the reverse.

Mr. Whedon is a master story-teller, and his art should be viewed in correct sequence. What fun is it to jump into the middle of an intricate story, with no idea of the characters, their background, or the factors that brought them together? Would you like that treatment?

What does Fox have to lose by rerunning the existing "Firefly" episodes, plus the three unaired ones, all of them in correct order, preceded by serious and pertinent advertising? Advertising must address the key of this yarn: "Firefly" is about heart-rending passion. It's about honor. It's about life. It's far closer to "reality TV" than any of the garbage that is offered under that dubious banner. Intelligent viewers will respond, and their intelligent friends will respond to excellent television, and they'll do it season after season. Word is already spreading from those who have seen "Firefly" to those who now wish they had, if only they had known about it. "Firefly" is excellence defined. It has a vast potential audience. Cannot Fox understand that?

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
(Rxtn)
----------
Forum members, I get TV in my remote corner of the mountains via satellite. I signed up for Fox knowing "Firefly" was coming. I signed off of Fox completely the day after the final ep showed.

Best wishes to you all, and especially to Joss, and HUGE kudos to Eliza Dushku for her brilliant performance on Angel.

Ruxton

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Friday, March 7, 2003 6:56 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Very well written Ruxton. I applaud your effort to make the blind see, but I fear it is an effort in futility. I do not even hold out hope that FOX will even air the episodes it has already aired, let alone the three unaired ones.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, March 7, 2003 8:21 PM

RUXTON

Thanks, BC1. I didn't really expect a response from Fox, but I found it impossible to not take some sort of action.

All best,

......Ruxton

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