Nitpicker's Guide to Firefly #101: The Train Job by Prototype

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Nitpicker's Guide to Firefly #101: The Train Job

POSTED BY: PROTOTYPE
UPDATED: Saturday, October 26, 2002 01:32
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VIEWED: 5697
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Monday, October 21, 2002 4:23 AM

Hello there, fellow Firefly fans! At my website, I've started putting up Nitpicker's guides to Firefly episodes, starting at the start. I'd appreciate feedback. :)

[url] http://handbook.sevspace.com

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Monday, October 21, 2002 4:31 AM

PEAK

Hi!

Fun to see you here... :)

Loved the Nitpick guide to the X-Files, so I'll definitely check this one out.. ;)

//Peak

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Monday, October 21, 2002 6:31 AM

QUILL

Nifty! Glad to see that the show is getting exposure.

But as for Westerns and sci-fi going together...Gene Roddenberry originally referred to Star Trek as a "Wagon Train to the stars." Worked for him...

Inside every cynic there's an idealist desperately yearning to be let out, and when they are let out they're usually a real pain and cause all sorts of trouble. --Chris Boucher

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Monday, October 21, 2002 9:21 AM

LOONYTOON

Seems to me, everything you point out has been explained quite well here on this forum. I think you kinda missed the whole point of the show, saying how they will behave in the frontier of space, just like they behaved on the western frontier. They have the same needs, lack of law enforcement, and a need to make a living. You also need to read the script for "serenity", its on the BB somewhere.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 1:43 PM

PROTOTYPE

Of course I'd nitpick Firefly. Buffy and Angel have given me great content in the past, there's no reason why this show won't.

As for Star Trek being a wagon train to the stars, yes, I have heard that many times. But it wasn't a western. It was nowhere near this extreme.

As for everything being explained in the forums, I have to doubt that comment. Everything I said is valid: the show is entertaining, but by no means realistic (I'm not saying that Star Trek is either, by saying this). Are you saying that there's an explanation as to why there was no splatter when the guy was kicked into the engine? I understand they have the same needs, the same lack of law enforcement, but even among villains, there are generally rules, otherwise everyone would just be trying to kill each other and no work would be done.

Ultimately, what you're reading is my opinions: Firefly is nice to look at, as long as you don't think about what you're seeing too much.

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Tuesday, October 22, 2002 11:25 AM

LOONYTOON

As for no splatter from the dude in the engine, they didn`t show you the exhaust side of the engine. If it has a powerful enough suction to suck a man in, no blood droplets are going to escape!
As for no rules among villains, there are rules, and the crew broke them, so they were going to be punished. You do what you are paid to do, you get paid, and you leave. Those are the rules. And I don`t count the Serenity crew as being villians with no rules, cuz exept for Jayne, they all seem to be a big family that would look out for each other. Look at Mals almost big-brotherly attitude towards Kaylee. He was going to kill Simon if he didn`t help kaylee in the original pilot!

If you list all your objections, I will point out why they aren`t really valid, or to a thread where it was explained. I am not meaning to be rude, its just that some people HAVE to find something wrong with every new show. This is the most realistic sci-fi I have ever seen.

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Tuesday, October 22, 2002 1:30 PM

PROTOTYPE

Then you probably like the show way too much. Either that or you worship Joss Whedon in some insanely wrong manner (and I know some pretty sad people in that respect!)

I don't know how you can say this is the most realistic sci-fi you've seen. That's just the most weirdest claim ever. So what, everyone's going to wear long coats and go completely western in the future? Because I can see that happening, yeah.

If you want to watch a science fiction show for realism, watch Jeremiah. It's about how the human race descends into chaos after a big plague. That's realism. Not the best show out there, but still realistic.

And of course I have to find faults. I'm a nitpicker.

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Tuesday, October 22, 2002 7:07 PM

LOONYTOON

No, I do not worship Joss Whedon, didn`t even know who he was tell I watched firefly. And I have never seen Jeriamiah, I don`t have cable.

As for the dress, I don`t know where you live, but out in the woods, and at goldmines, and people who live in the bush here in Alaska, they dress quite a bit like on firefly. When I`m moose hunting, I could pass for someone from the 19th century. Back then, settlers dressed the way they did for conveniance, not fashion. Canvas pants, suspenders or belt and a button up shirt like Mal wears has alot of utility working outdoors. Settlers on a new world would have about the same resources as 19th century settlers. It would be much cheaper to create your own clothing than to import it from off-world, just as it would be easier to import breeding stock and breed horses than it would to bring in vehicles like cars.

And was my no splatter explanation good enough for you?;-)

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Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:22 AM

PROTOTYPE

No, it wasn't really. Have you seen the amount of mess a body would make? I don't care the power of the engines, there'd be some sign of it.

And I don't have cable either. Hell, I'm in Australia. I still watch Jeremiah. The net is a beautiful thing sometimes.

And you keep believing like a good little brainwashed viewer.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:03 PM

LOONYTOON

I don`t think there would be any sign of the guy in the turbine. And one thing about Firefly that I like is that it ain`t got that annoying faith in humanity of star trek. That alone makes it much more realistic. Can you tell I`m a pessimist?

And I don`t think I`m a brainwashed fan(that means they musta done a good job on me!) I just think that we need to be positive about firefly, as it is the best show I have seen in a while, though I`m pretty ticked they cancelled Dark Angel.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2002 4:56 PM

DELSIE

When watching the episode under debate here, I noticed that after we see the man flying into the engine, the cut to Mal is fairly quick. We can't say with any certainity that there was or wasn't a splatter if said splatter was delayed for a few seconds. I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to the science behind the engines, but isn't it possible that, with that amount of suction and that size of engine, there just might've been a slight delay?

Just my uneducated observation.

~Delsie.

"A friend of mine once sent me a postcard with a picture of the entire planet Earth taken from space. On the back it said 'Wish you were here.'" - Steven Wright

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Wednesday, October 23, 2002 5:02 PM

PROTOTYPE

Yeah, I'll agree with you there: I have no overriding faith in humanity either. Believe me, you want to see realism and the collapse of civilization, watch Jeremiah. Not Firefly. Not for realism, definitely not for realism!

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Thursday, October 24, 2002 2:58 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND

I heart Prototype. I mean I disagree with you on a lot of things but I gotta have some love for anybody who can get our favorite Alaskan riled up.

Quote:
7. Did anyone else find it rather strange that we didn't get a scene with the train heist being planned? I mean honestly, this is meant to be a western. Sort of. They should spread a set of plans over the mess hall table, talk about the details, go through a checklist, stack their hands up before yelling 'go team' (or something like that)... but instead it's just... wanna rob a train? Sure. Sounds good to me.

Now that's just snarky! Cause really, if you've seen it once you've seen it a billion times. That's what's so great about Joss, that he can take familiar situations (like a train heist) and do it in a way that you haven't quite seen before. So I for one am quite glad there was no "planning scene". Unless you were just being facetious, and then shame on you!

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Thursday, October 24, 2002 3:58 PM

DELSIE

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynesGirlfriend:

Quote:
7. Did anyone else find it rather strange that we didn't get a scene with the train heist being planned? I mean honestly, this is meant to be a western. Sort of. They should spread a set of plans over the mess hall table, talk about the details, go through a checklist, stack their hands up before yelling 'go team' (or something like that)... but instead it's just... wanna rob a train? Sure. Sounds good to me.

Now that's just snarky! Cause really, if you've seen it once you've seen it a billion times. That's what's so great about Joss, that he can take familiar situations (like a train heist) and do it in a way that you haven't quite seen before. So I for one am quite glad there was no "planning scene". Unless you were just being facetious, and then shame on you!

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

I was wondering about that nitpick too.

After all, Niska (or however you spell his name) laid out what he had planned and basicly left the details up to the crew of Serenity. Then, when Simon is talking to Kaylee in the cargo bay (is that the correct terminology?), Kaylee explains their side of the plan to him. This means that there must've been a planning session somewhere.

With all this, why did we really need a scene of the crew planning the heist? It wasn't needed and probably would get a little tedious. Besides, then we'd miss out on most of the scene in the cargo bay!

~Delsie.

"A friend of mine once sent me a postcard with a picture of the entire planet Earth taken from space. On the back it said 'Wish you were here.'" - Steven Wright

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Thursday, October 24, 2002 4:19 PM

SOULE

Quote:
To get maximum use out of a gun, you need to have it tight around your waist, so that you can still reach it with the opposite hand, should the need arise.

Most law enforcement personnel do wear their holsters high, but there are strict uniform standards in place and there is little personal choice in how to wear the gun. Off-hand access is one reason for holsters high on the hip, but so is keeping it out of the way while going about daily activities like sitting behind a desk, getting in and out of a car all day, etc. In fact, members of the special branches of the military and some SWAT teams, (in other words, those who are nearly certain to USE their sidearms) often wear low-slung holsters because it allows a faster draw and is more comfortable.

Quote:
I really have to raise an eyebrow at the way that this ship, the Serenity, is run. It just doesn't seem to make sense - sure, it's not military, but orders still need to be followed.

You're right, it's not military. So why do orders need to be followed like it is? The crew follow Mal because he (presumably) owns the ship and is obviously the most capable to lead it. I wouldn't expect to find the spit-and-polish and blind obedience on Serenity anymore than I would on a modern oil tanker or 747. Besides, they're all outlaws and criminals. A bit of rugged individualism and unconvential behavior is good characterization.

Quote:
Now in an age with spaceships that travel from planet to planet, assumably at reasonably fast speeds, why the hell do they still have trains?

In an age with air vehicles that can travel between continents in hours, why the hell do we still have trains? The answer for both questions is the same - cost, complexity, and related infrastructure. Why don't you fly a plane the 30 miles to work even though it would be much faster? Because planes cost more than cars, it's more difficult to keep a plane in proper running order than your car, and I doubt there's a runway in front of your office building. How many people fly thousands of miles across the Earth, only to disembark and ride for hours more in a car, bus, or TRAIN?

Quote:
Did anyone else find it rather strange that we didn't get a scene with the train heist being planned?

I didn't. Since it wouldn't have added to the story, what would have been the purpose?

Quote:
...next time Malcom pushes a guy into the ship's engine, I expect to see much more debris flying around as a result. This guy goes out without so much as a splatter.

We couldn't see the back of the engines. Why would you expect to see splatter? Those turbines sucked a very large man completely off his feet and shredded him without so much as coughing - like spilled beer up a shop vac. The little bits and pieces of said big man would splatter all over behind the ship (or wherever the turbine exhaust exits).

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Saturday, October 26, 2002 1:32 AM

PROTOTYPE

Quote:
Originally posted by delsie:
Quote:
Originally posted by JaynesGirlfriend:

With all this, why did we really need a scene of the crew planning the heist? It wasn't needed and probably would get a little tedious. Besides, then we'd miss out on most of the scene in the cargo bay!

~Delsie.

Sure we still need it. It could have been really good. Go and have a look at the Great Muppet Caper. It had a really funny scene in it with a crime being planned. They lost the chance.

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