FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Anybody know if Serenity went to Boros?

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Friday, January 11, 2008 17:31
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Wednesday, December 26, 2007 7:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


After the Pilot, anyhow?

When on Persephone, the destination was Boros.
OPnce aboard, Mal said a detour to Whitefall would delay their arrival on Boros about a day or 2.
Book didn't care the destination, the how or way was more interesting, so he doens't need to get to Boros.
Simon was taking River-in-the-Box to Boros, but found a home on Serenity. Plus, the feds were on his tail, likely knew they were headed for Boros, and likely would prefer to avoid Boros.
Dobson is no longer aboard, but he wasn't really going to Boros anyhow.
The cargo is gone on Whitefall, so no obvious cargo to take to Boros.

The Train Job has Simon introducing River to Mal, and Book seems very new to Serenity. Seems only a few days after the Pilot, if that.

So, did they ever bother going to Boros? I've seen no mention they actually did.


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Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:08 PM

STOWEAWAY


Don't know, myself.
But thought I'd bump this up so somebody more knowledgeable could answer.

Anybody?

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Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:23 PM

STRANGEBIRD


First off I want to note that like STOWEAWAY I have absolutely no clue. That said I would say likely not. As you observed from what we can tell they had no reason to continue on to Boros and The Train Job likely takes place a day or two after Serenity. I also doubt anyone knows for certain if there's canonical proof. Only way I'd say we'll know for certain is if Joss himself comes on here and says "Yes they needed to pick up banoonoos in Boros for a delivery.."(I suck at Joss impersonations) ANYWHO... yeah if anyone is a true-blue canon expert come on here and show us the light.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 10:54 AM

FREELANCERTEX


I thought their point in setting Boros as a destination was to carry passengers who needed to GET to Boros, so they'd get some extra coin, kind of doubling up on the Whitefall job and getting paid twice. That said, once River was discovered and Mal invited the Tams to stay, they no longer had much of a reason to go to Boros, did they? I don't think they ever ended up setting down on the planet. Just my logic though.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 11:57 AM

NBZ


I think they did go to Boros.

Mal decided to get passengers to cover some of the costs of the journey, not the other way around.

The plan was to deliver the goods to Persephone, go to Boros. If possible, get passengers to cover the costs of the journey.

It kind of fell apart at the first point, but I do think that once everything got done, they did go to Boros.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 12:21 PM

FREELANCERTEX


How? the only passengers they had were Simon and River, Book, and Dobson. Dobson died, Book, Simon, and River all stayed on board, And they didnt take on any passengers after that. He never said anything about taking on passengers on Boros.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

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Friday, December 28, 2007 1:03 PM

NBZ


They were going to Boros for some unspecified reason.

Taking passengers was a side task. "We're going there, so may as well get some paying passengers heading the same direction."

The events that took place in the episode would not change anything, as their primary reason to go to Boros was NOT to take passengers there. Nor was any business dealing hinted at, but it is possible they could get work from Boros.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 1:09 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC


I had the impression that they were going to Boros, and the passengers were just to help with costs. If that impression is accurate then they had a reason, unrelated to passengers, to go to Boros.

I see no reason to believe that that reason, whatever it was and assuming it exists, would have changed. Since the Alliance did not know they were going to Boros they had no reason to turn around.

So I'd say that they probably did go there.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 2:04 PM

ASARIAN


Clearly they were initially headed for Boros:

KAYLEE: "This is Serenity, and she's the smoothest ride from here to Boros for anyone who can pay."
WASH: "Look, we drop the goods on Persephone, fly away rich and prosperous, then when we get to Boros..."

Then, later, Mal explains their trip to Boros is delayed somewhat:

MAL: "We should have you on Boros no more than a day off schedule. Is that gonna be all right for everyone?"

Naturally, in the Train Job we learn nobody had actually disembarked on Boros, but especially from Kaylee's and Wash's earlier comments, it's my estimation that they were planning to go to Boros regardless of any passengers. In the cockpit scene, with Mal and Simon, at the end of the pilot, their boat is obviously headed somewhere; so I see no reason why that couldn't still be Boros.


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Friday, December 28, 2007 2:58 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by freelancertex:
Dobson died...


Hmmm...nope. Apparently you haven't read the graphic novel "Those Left Behind."

As for Boros, I'm not sure. Another thing I am not sure about is which planet "The Train Job" took place on, and was it the same planet Niska's skyplex was orbiting in "War Stories." Perhaps it is Boros, but it was never named on screen in either episode.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 3:19 PM

FREELANCERTEX


Wait, was that bar on Boros? or was that just an unspecified planet?

I'd read Those Left Behind if i knew where to find it. I had the impression Dobson + being shot in the head = most decidedly deceased.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

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Friday, December 28, 2007 3:28 PM

NBZ


War Stories was on/around "Ezra".

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Friday, December 28, 2007 3:45 PM

FREELANCERTEX


I know that, i was talking about the beginning of the Train Job :P

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

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Friday, December 28, 2007 4:36 PM

NBZ


I doubt that is Boros.

Boros was described in the Pilot episode as teaming with Alliance. I would expect it to be fairly built up.

I would expect The Train Job to have also taken place on Ezra.

(Deleted bit of War Stories suggests that Niska is someone who has power on that world... and I would suggest he was trying to expand it in TTJ through nefarious means...)

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Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:39 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by nbz:

I doubt that is Boros.

Boros was described in the Pilot episode as teaming with Alliance. I would expect it to be fairly built up.



In the pilot, after being turned down by Badger, they are indeed talking about not selling the merchandise at Boros, as Mal thinks it's not a good idea to be caught peddling Alliance goods. But that just says they weren't planning on flashing the goods at the gorramn law -- which they never planned to begin with.

Truth is, we simply don't know why they were headed for Boros in the first place. In front of Serenity's "parking space", at Eavesdown docks, we can see some sort of electronic placard which lists Boros as their destination. But other than that, why they planned to go there is yet untold. Could be as simple that Boros is simply the next big hop in space, and that it thus makes sense for them to offer transportation to the next big Alliance world.


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Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:44 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by freelancertex:


I'd read Those Left Behind if i knew where to find it. I had the impression Dobson + being shot in the head = most decidedly deceased.



The shooting script says:

"-- and shoots Dobson in the face. He flies back, letting go of River and dead before he lands."

TLB deviates a mite from his demise, but it was after all only a shooting script, and no where in canon has Dobson's death really been confirmed. In fact, this serves as a good example NOT to mistake a shooting script for canon!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, December 29, 2007 6:50 AM

FREELANCERTEX


what. is. canon?

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

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Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:10 AM

RIVERFLAN


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
and no where in canon has Dobson's death really been confirmed.



Yeah but has he suddenly sprung up from somewhere? I haven't read the graphic novel because I don't know where to get it like tex, so it's possible that he did in there, but could someone answer that question?

And as for the topic, I think that the reason why they had Boros as a destination was to pick up more passengers, and I don't think they really were going to go to Boros anyway. They just wanted to get into space so when they figured out where to sell the cargo they'd already have some distance covered. It's been a while since I've seen that episode bacause I haven't had time , but that was my impression.

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Saturday, December 29, 2007 2:53 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverFlan:

And as for the topic, I think that the reason why they had Boros as a destination was to pick up more passengers, and I don't think they really were going to go to Boros anyway. They just wanted to get into space so when they figured out where to sell the cargo they'd already have some distance covered.



It is entirely possible that what you say is true: that they never meant to go there anyway. However, two things leap to mind that make me not so sure:

1): They already had their cargo onboard, and had planned to sell it right there, on Persephone, to Badger. That plan fell through, and Zoe suggested they sell it on Boros instead. To which Mal rightly pointed out -- them being Alliance goods and all, and Boros somewhat crawling with Alliance -- that the risk of doing so was too high, and that it would have to be somewhere else on the rim (which turned out to be, somewhat reluctantly, Whitefall, as we all know). My long-winded point being: I don't think they planned on going to Boros only after the deal with Badger got busted.

2): Simon had definite plans to bring River to Boros. So, if everything were right... well, they'd be in jail. :) But other than that, if everything had gone according to plan, it stands to reason they'd delivered Simon and box on Boros, right?

On the other hand, the Train Job takes place at a small mining moon, called Regina. Now, my planetary knowledge of the 'Verse has always been somewhat limited (on account of my brain missing), but I believe Regina, together with Whitefall and Higgin's Moon, is one of the three moons orbiting Athens (Ezra, the barren moon that Niska has his space station, is near Greenleaf and Lilac, all orbiting a gas giant called Georgia).

So, where does that leave us? Much of the maps are somewhat speculative/tentative, but if it's true that Regina really is quite opposite on the map to Boros, I dunno, then still going to Boros would make their trip to Whitefall and Ezra (to drop of the goods on Niska's doorstep) quite a detour.


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Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:35 PM

RIVERFLAN


I suppose that we can never know, but it's fun to speculate.

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Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


My set was loaned out, but I just reviewed some. They intended to go to Boros before setting on Persephone. apparently planning to vacation on Boros with the moola they got from Badger.
They had to sell to Patience for a big discount, not the big profit they planned on getting from Badger.
If vacation was the sole purpose of going to Boros, that put an end to it. I did not see any other function for going to Boros. If they did go, it seemed it would be after The Train Job.
Simon had figured River would be in the box at least another week, so Boros must be less than a week from Persephone, not to mention the day or 2 delay via Whitefall.
They did get an agent to track the Tams to Persephone and onto Serenity, no guaranty they didn't get word of the destination Boros. The docking data port on Persephone listed the destination, and when Dobson disappears, merely checking all the departing ship destinations could get them to go to Boros, so why risk going there if not required to?

I mentioned Simon introduced River to Mal in TTJ, but that was in the script. Now I see that line did not get into the aired episode, but they did include "Mal. Bad. In the Latin." Also that they were not home, they were on a ship, which River described in more detail than Mal remembered, and Simon's "I still don't know what she knows" or such was also not included in final cut.

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Monday, December 31, 2007 12:12 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Regarding the maps, these are planetary bodies orbiting around the sun/star. At some point, they would get closer to each other, unless they are in complimentary orbit and always in the opposite orbital position in the solar system.

And I thought the Pilot script had Mal saying Whitefall was the 4th moon on Athens.

Didn't badger also threaten them that if they arrived on Boros witht he goods, the Alliance would be waiting for them, he was fair sure of it.

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Monday, December 31, 2007 8:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:

Originally posted by RiverFlan:

And as for the topic, I think that the reason why they had Boros as a destination was to pick up more passengers, and I don't think they really were going to go to Boros anyway. They just wanted to get into space so when they figured out where to sell the cargo they'd already have some distance covered.



It is entirely possible that what you say is true: that they never meant to go there anyway. However, two things leap to mind that make me not so sure:

1): They already had their cargo onboard, and had planned to sell it right there, on Persephone, to Badger. That plan fell through, and Zoe suggested they sell it on Boros instead. To which Mal rightly pointed out -- them being Alliance goods and all, and Boros somewhat crawling with Alliance -- that the risk of doing so was too high, and that it would have to be somewhere else on the rim (which turned out to be, somewhat reluctantly, Whitefall, as we all know). My long-winded point being: I don't think they planned on going to Boros only after the deal with Badger got busted.

2): Simon had definite plans to bring River to Boros. So, if everything were right... well, they'd be in jail. :) But other than that, if everything had gone according to plan, it stands to reason they'd delivered Simon and box on Boros, right?

On the other hand, the Train Job takes place at a small mining moon, called Regina. Now, my planetary knowledge of the 'Verse has always been somewhat limited (on account of my brain missing), but I believe Regina, together with Whitefall and Higgin's Moon, is one of the three moons orbiting Athens (Ezra, the barren moon that Niska has his space station, is near Greenleaf and Lilac, all orbiting a gas giant called Georgia).

So, where does that leave us? Much of the maps are somewhat speculative/tentative, but if it's true that Regina really is quite opposite on the map to Boros, I dunno, then still going to Boros would make their trip to Whitefall and Ezra (to drop of the goods on Niska's doorstep) quite a detour.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam



Where do you get Regina as the planet with Paradiso and Hancock? What reference is that from? I haven't fond any mention of that.
When they leave atmo from the U-day bar (which has 3 very close moons), they pass by a planet with rings - do you think this is Beylix - I haven't seen another body indicated with rings. Is the U-Day bar supposed to be on a moon of Beylix?
Also, where did you get your verse planetary data?

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Tuesday, January 1, 2008 4:22 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Where do you get Regina as the planet with Paradiso and Hancock? What reference is that from?


I usually look to wikipedia for a quick planetary reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Firefly_planets_and_moons

But firefkywiki has Regina now listed too, I see:

http://www.fireflywiki.org/Firefly/Regina

Quote:


When they leave atmo from the U-day bar (which has 3 very close moons), they pass by a planet with rings - do you think this is Beylix - I haven't seen another body indicated with rings. Is the U-Day bar supposed to be on a moon of Beylix?



Beylix, I believe, is a moon. Not a planet. Wikipedia says:

"Beylix is a small border moon, used for smuggling rendezvous. Mal's war buddy Monty was caught by the Alliance here. Mal refers to it in the episode "Trash". In the role-playing game, Beylix appears to have a permanent cloud cover and dense ice rings."

Interesting. In the small grab I made, we can indeed see Serenity passes a small moon with rings around it. You're very observant. :) And if you look outside the window in the bottom picture, we see... nothing! Like an icy cloud. I checked the atmo of the moon too, when they took the fight outside, and it seems as icy and impenetrable as what we see outside the cockpit windows. 'Cept, from space, the atmo on that moon hardly looks like it could sustain life, and Serenity don't appear to take off from it, but rather seems to pass it. But it's not impossible that it is indeed Beylix.



The first shot in space we see is that of a planet, though. I'm guessing that's Athens, then. Obviously, they did NOT disembark from that planet, as the bar fight takes place on a little moon (that Wash threatens to blow a small crater in). Or it's an entirely different system they're in altogether.


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"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, January 1, 2008 8:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I did not intend to imply that Regina was non-existant - it is one of the Unified (Worlds) as listed on page 12 of the Serenity Visual Companion. I was only asking where can we connect Regina to Paradiso and Hancock? Wikipedia is reknowned for inaccuracies, and does not list it's sources for conclusions or statements.
I do not dispute Paradiso and Hancock cannot be on Regina, I just have not seen a connection specified. Have you seen a specific connection?

I am not certain that Athens is the only system with 4 moons (although the script specifies moons, I could rationalize that one of these could be the planet of their system).

Thanks for your input. Have you any other planetary references besides wiki?

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Saturday, January 5, 2008 4:29 PM

SCHOOLBOYSWINK


God, I missed all you Browncoats! I live for this stuff.

First, my first instinct is to concur with the viewpoint noted above that Boros was intended primarily as a vacation spot. However! I then remembered that by Wash and Zoe's conversation, the notion of anybody having "a few days leave" was not yet agreed upon. I assume, then, that they must have had some other purpose in going there after selling to Badger. We can only speculate what that reason might have been, but we do know that the idea of keeping the ship in repair was a point of serious stress in the Pilot (as at all other times, of course, but particularly mentioned in the Pilot). Does anybody have any reliable stats on Boros? Anything that might lead us to the educated guess that it would be a good (i.e. economical; read: cheap) place to get parts and possibly assistant labor for repairs?

Also, a side note on the statement made by JSF about orbits being basically "in sync." I've had that thought about the 'Verse myself, wondering if navigation was reliable because they were lucky enough that the planets all kept the same relative orientation as they orbited their star. Given the example of real-world systems we can study, that's pretty unlikely, of course. It might, though, point to one of the major reasons why the central planets are more heavily civilized and more generally desirable than the rim worlds. Let's say, for example, that we have a planet in orbit every 1 AU out from the star. (Just to make the math easy; NASA geeks buzz off!) Your two innermost planets would be 1 AU apart when they pass one another, and only 3 AU apart when they are at their furthest point. The two planets 15 and 16 AU from the star, though, might be only 1 AU away at some times, but at others could be up to 31 AU apart, and range everywhere in between. (And yes, I realize that real orbits are eliptical, not circular; why are you NASA geeks still reading?) This makes navigation between these two planets highly variable, and moving goods between them a serious crap-shoot, which is never good for business. A good friend or business associate could be barely more than a shuttle ride away when you meet, but five years down the line could cost more than you own in fuel to get there, all variance, of course, dependent on relative orbital speed. Not hard to see why the Border planets are thought of as a rough frontier. You could have a time when your whole planet is "corner of 'no' and 'where,'" which would never be true of the core planets with their condescendingly small orbital diameters.

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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Sunday, January 6, 2008 8:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Some of that time-distance problem is mollified when a munber of bodies have terraformed moons, so from between moon travel is consistent.

One goofy thing, Badger had the line about what happens on the rim doesn't matter to those in the center, or the hub - implying he (Persephone) is near the "hub". However, Joss has clearly stated the Persephone is one of the outer planets, so that sorta confused me a bit.

In BDM, River states on Miranda that the nearest orbital distance was just a short time ago, so the travel time at maximum burn from Miranda to Mr. Universe was (something like 4 hours). So that does involve the orbital equation.

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Monday, January 7, 2008 9:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I would appear this is due for an updated query for the sake of clarity.

Please select one of the following options, which you feel is most likely, or why 2 or more are likely.

1. Serenity did not go to Boros after the end of the Pilot. Originally scheduled to get there within a week, they did not get there within 2 weeks, not before Shindig.

2. Serenity did get to Boros on schedule (day or 2 late), before The Train Job. River was put to sleep for this week, and Book was still not situated well after this week, and did not get off at Boros. Serenity and the Tams successfully evaded the Alliance at Boros.

3. Serenity did get to Boros, just not on schedule. They went after The Train Job, got to Boros within a week of when they planned. Serenity and the Tams evaded the Alliance at Boros.

4. None of the above. Please explain.

Thanks for all your input.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2008 5:36 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I would appear this is due for an updated query for the sake of clarity.

Please select one of the following options, which you feel is most likely, or why 2 or more are likely.

1. Serenity did not go to Boros after the end of the Pilot. Originally scheduled to get there within a week, they did not get there within 2 weeks, not before Shindig.

2. Serenity did get to Boros on schedule (day or 2 late), before The Train Job. River was put to sleep for this week, and Book was still not situated well after this week, and did not get off at Boros. Serenity and the Tams successfully evaded the Alliance at Boros.

3. Serenity did get to Boros, just not on schedule. They went after The Train Job, got to Boros within a week of when they planned. Serenity and the Tams evaded the Alliance at Boros.

4. None of the above. Please explain.

Thanks for all your input.



River was put to sleep?? :) Gee, that's a mite unsettlin'! LOL

Ok, I go for door Nr. 1: they didn't go to Boros as planned. For one, we never hear them about this great shore leave they were supposed to have there (maybe, as you say, cuz the percentage of the stolen goods weren't as large as they figured). And for two, more importantly, I reckon, because their passengers never disembarked at Boros as intended: and with their situation so drastically altered, it seems hard to imagine they went to Boros regardless.


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"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:04 PM

SCHOOLBOYSWINK


Given that Wash's line after they evade the Reavers at the end of the Pilot that references "hitting a refueling station" and not "going to Boros for repairs" does a fair job of smashing my theory that Boros was intended as a repair stop, I will vote for #1. I must add the caveat, however, that #3 is equally plausible as just one more thing our BDHs did that we didn't get to see because it was ultimately irrelevant to the plot. (For example, the comments at the beginning of Shindig seem to indicate that they had spent time on Persephone other than the one time we saw them stop their previously, and since those comments were not made in the Pilot we can guess that said time was spent during that covered by the series, but we never saw those events.)

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:51 PM

NBZ


There has to be enough passage of time between the pilot and TTJ to allow Kaylee to heal from her bullet wound. (she could not even walk at the end of the pilot!)

No idea how much time this would take.

Ofcourse there is the other conundrum that Shepherd Book and Mal do not seem to have spent much time together. Nor has Mal been introduced to River (or he has and she is forgetful).

How to put all this together? Simple. Mal got off at Boros, got back on where ever they were when TTJ started. Opens up a whole can of worms too.

This will allow Kaylee to get better, the crew to be more relaxed (they were on edge in the pilot), and Mal not be better acquainted with Book or River. Or even Simon.

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Friday, January 11, 2008 5:31 PM

SCHOOLBOYSWINK


Quote:

Originally posted by nbz:
There has to be enough passage of time between the pilot and TTJ to allow Kaylee to heal from her bullet wound. (she could not even walk at the end of the pilot!)

No idea how much time this would take.

Ofcourse there is the other conundrum that Shepherd Book and Mal do not seem to have spent much time together. Nor has Mal been introduced to River (or he has and she is forgetful).

How to put all this together? Simple. Mal got off at Boros, got back on where ever they were when TTJ started. Opens up a whole can of worms too.

This will allow Kaylee to get better, the crew to be more relaxed (they were on edge in the pilot), and Mal not be better acquainted with Book or River. Or even Simon.




Hmmm... Maybe... But I'm not sure the Cap'n would leave Serenity unsupervised with new folk on board and Kaylee still on the mend. I shouldn't say "unsupervised," since Zoe would be there, but what I mean is, I think Mal would want to keep an eye on that personally... Can't see him getting off while everybody else stayed... Well, unless he had a fair compelling reason... Wonder what that might be...?

What was that you said about a can of worms?

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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