FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Kaylee's Reaction in 'The Message'...

POSTED BY: SHROUDED
UPDATED: Monday, August 21, 2006 13:41
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Saturday, August 19, 2006 1:37 PM

SHROUDED


Is it just me, or have other people noticed it too?

After the coffin is opened and they're heading back to the ship, Simon asks Kaylee, "Did we get something fun?" Kaylee brushes him off. At first, I believed it was because she was still angry at him, but as the episode progressed to the recording, to her reaction, it almost seemed as if... she *knew* him. You know, beforehand. I mean, it might just be because Kaylee's a good soul and she felt for him, but she's obviously seen dead bodies before (being aboard Serenity, it's hard not to).

Maybe it's just me, but I want to know if anyone else got this notion when they first saw it. I've seen it several times since, enough to believe it's just me, but it's still there... nagging at the back of my brain.

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When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't do that you sit still and watch episodes of Firefly.

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Sunday, August 20, 2006 11:37 AM

AGENTROUKA


But.. later when they interact, there's no hint of it. I don't see why she wouldn't have mentioned it to anyone, too.

Kaylee's fairly judgmental throughout the episode, except toward Tracey who flatters her. I don't think it's more than anger at Simon and the relief of meeting someone who professes a strong sense of family, like Kaylee herself.

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Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:15 PM

EMBERS


I just took it that she was mad at Simon,
and for some reason Tracy's story resonated with her and she was kind of romanticizing him.
She is kind of a romantic soul and I think the tragedy of his young death touched her,
and of course putting so much attention on his last message had left her particularly vulnerable to him when it turns out he is alive....

I think the writers wanted to drive a wedge between Simon & Kaylee so it would be believable that she kind of 'fell' for Tracy so quickly)

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Sunday, August 20, 2006 3:06 PM

SHROUDED


Alright, guys, thanks. That really helped push it out of my mind.

I believed pretty much the same things, but I wanted to see if others did too. Now that I've got solid ground against the entire Kaylee-knowing-Tracey thing, I think I can finally push it out of my mind.

Though, it would make for an interesting parrallel of the episode... -cackle- Fanfiction idea!

---------------------------------------

When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't do that you sit still and watch episodes of Firefly.

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Sunday, August 20, 2006 4:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Shrouded:
Alright, guys, thanks. That really helped push it out of my mind.

I believed pretty much the same things, but I wanted to see if others did too. Now that I've got solid ground against the entire Kaylee-knowing-Tracey thing, I think I can finally push it out of my mind.

Though, it would make for an interesting parrallel of the episode... -cackle- Fanfiction idea!

---------------------------------------

When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't do that you sit still and watch episodes of Firefly.



I think both Zoe and River said it best.

Simon is a boob.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 20, 2006 5:01 PM

TERRI


Do you know what I think? I belive that if given more time (which is quickly becoming the Browncoat motto) Joss would have been able to expound upon Kaylee story a bit. Maybe the reason (well, another reason, because I agree with most of what my fellow Browncoats have mentioned before) that Kaylee reacts so deeply to Tracey's problem is because of her own parental history. What do we really know about Kaylee? What do we know about her parents, or even her history? Maybe she was seperated from her parents, and is afraid of dying out in the black, without telling them goodbye. I've always wondered about Kaylee. She's such a smart young woman, with this tremendous mechanical aptitude, and is extremely feel good, I can't imagine that she wouldn't be wanted on the best boats in the 'verse. And let's just say its that people underestimate her, cause she's a chick, well, as she'd have to do is what she did for Mal, show him that she knows what she's talking about, and her reputation would grow. Anyway, I was just trying to put different points of view out there.


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Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:48 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


She has parents, if you recall in OOG when Mal asks how she knew how to fix the ship and she says just do it, she says my daddy says I got a gift, and when he says wanna be our mechanic she squeels and says I just gotta ask my folks. If we had gotten more epi's I have a feeling Joss would have shown them back on Kaylees planet meeting their folks and Simon feeling awkward around them (which to some would look snobby).

As for Kaylee brushing off Simon, any guy saying your really the only woman I can have because everyone else is either taken or my sister, well any girl would be pretty pissed at that. That's like some guy saying to a girl well since I can't have the cheerleader I might as well be with you. Maybe a bit out here but it's the same reaction.

As for Tracy I'm sorry Joss killed him off. Now there was someone I felt really had chemestry with Kaylee and would have made a better match. (I still don't see the relationship between Kaylee and Simon. Something is just off there)

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Sunday, August 20, 2006 9:19 PM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by Misstressahara:
As for Kaylee brushing off Simon, any guy saying your really the only woman I can have because everyone else is either taken or my sister, well any girl would be pretty pissed at that. That's like some guy saying to a girl well since I can't have the cheerleader I might as well be with you. Maybe a bit out here but it's the same reaction.



Simon was trying to make a joke. Not a successful one, of course, but this was really an occasion of Kaylee's insecurity acting up just as much as Simon's lack of humorous judgment.

Kaylee's an odd creature in that she can be verty perceptive about people (say, Book in the pilot) and then she can be fairly dense. Simon is easily flustered, but she never tries to understand that. She expects him to say the right thing, and when he so obviously messes up she just gets mad without trying to place it in context.
Having Mal staring at you like he'll shoot you after waking up with Kaylee in "Jaynestown", yes, that can send a person stumbling over his words. Especially funny since it was obviously just a joke to Mal. Kaylee never even bothers to notice.

Then in the cow scene, she's pushing for compliments. He tries to make a joke and off she goes. She could have seen the humor if she wasn't so insecure, if she didn't hold Simon responsible for convincing her she has a chance with him. She's the one with the crush but she acts as passively as if he's supposed to woo her and gets angry when he fails to. It's weird.

That sort of insecurity makes her vulnerable to Tracey who's quite obviously playing to her admiration because it's another opportunity for him to use, just like Mal and Zoe are.

Quote:


As for Tracy I'm sorry Joss killed him off. Now there was someone I felt really had chemestry with Kaylee and would have made a better match. (I still don't see the relationship between Kaylee and Simon. Something is just off there)



He had no qualms about pulling a gun on her and taking her hostage, after spending a day flattering her and enjoying her flirting. I'm a bit confused about how that is chemistry.

Although I somewhat agree with you about Simon and Kaylee. I think Simon's words actually have an ironic truth to them.

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Sunday, August 20, 2006 9:28 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


I stand by what I say, insecure or not ANY girl would have gotten pissed off, and yes I know what Tracy did, but the chemistry was more real between them then between her and Simon, and it's not on Kaylee's part.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:41 PM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Bear in mind that Kaylee is very young. Younger than her years in many ways I think. Her reactions are always going to be that little bit immature. Hence romanticising about a dead guy who seemed so sweet and wanted to get back to his folks and would never have made such a stupid comment... then when the guy wakes up he seems just as sweet as she'd imagined, so naturally she felt a certain friendliness toward him.

I still think the Simon/Kaylee ship has more chemistry though






More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Sunday, August 20, 2006 11:51 PM

SERYN


Quote:


Simon was trying to make a joke. Not a successful one, of course, but this was really an occasion of Kaylee's insecurity acting up just as much as Simon's lack of humorous judgment.

Kaylee's an odd creature in that she can be verty perceptive about people (say, Book in the pilot) and then she can be fairly dense. Simon is easily flustered, but she never tries to understand that. She expects him to say the right thing, and when he so obviously messes up she just gets mad without trying to place it in context.
Having Mal staring at you like he'll shoot you after waking up with Kaylee in "Jaynestown", yes, that can send a person stumbling over his words. Especially funny since it was obviously just a joke to Mal. Kaylee never even bothers to notice.

Then in the cow scene, she's pushing for compliments. He tries to make a joke and off she goes. She could have seen the humor if she wasn't so insecure, if she didn't hold Simon responsible for convincing her she has a chance with him. She's the one with the crush but she acts as passively as if he's supposed to woo her and gets angry when he fails to. It's weird.

That sort of insecurity makes her vulnerable to Tracey who's quite obviously playing to her admiration because it's another opportunity for him to use, just like Mal and Zoe are.



Kaylee is young, and she's romantisizing Simon - he's her prince charming - she probably sees him as perfect - handsom, (once) rich, clever, sucessfull, clean! (i know, in the movie, she chides him for it, but when he's so different to everything else she's been used to, its hard not to find the uniquness attractive) so she's putting him on a pedestal, and expecting him to be so much better than other men, so his constant footinmouth moments are, to her mind, unforgivable, cause he shouldn't have them - in her head he's so much suaver than that. Plus she likes him, so theres extra importance invested in everything he says. And as for her being passive, i think part of this romantic image she has of Simon is that this time ( as her prince charming)he'll be the one to woo her. I get the impression she's made it obvious that she's interested, now he has to respond and let here know that he wants the same thing. She can sense that he does, but she now need the declaration, and something tells me she's never been made to wait before, which must be frustrating!

Also, its easy to be perceptive when you have no emotional investment in the object, as a dispassionate observer, as with Book, as with exchanges between Mal and Inara that she see's, she's on the outside looking in and can objectively judge the situation.
With Simon, there no ability to stand back and be objective - she's in the middle of whats happening, and other emotions are crowding in giving her less of a chance to be reasonable.

I think its less insecurity (we all know haow Mal met her, she's not a shy lass when it comes to relationships) and more emotional immaturity - she's yet to learn to be objective - beleive it or not, the one thing that helps a girl learn that is talking things over with friends (girly gossip!) and who exactly, can she do that with?

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Monday, August 21, 2006 2:36 AM

SHROUDED


I don't think Kaylee and Tracey had any chemistry at all. I think, like at the beginning of the series when Kaylee met Simon, that she got a mite lusty. Also, from what Kaylee saw, he was in his own way a bit like Simon - cute, sweet, cared about his family... But, at the same time, he was different - more like her (more rural, not much money). Also, he was a tad bit better at telling girls what they like to hear than Simon was, because I doubt Simon has had much experience with any girls besides his sister. I mean, it's pretty clear, combining when he tells zoe in the same episode, "I'm not really good at talking to girls" from the episode Safe when his parents (I foget whether the father or mother) says that some girl has always showed an interest in him. he just brushes it off (of course, it may be because River was in danger and he knew it, but...).

What I'm trying to say..... Kaylee and Simon all the way!

---------------------------------------

When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't do that you sit still and watch episodes of Firefly.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 4:40 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by seryn:

I think its less insecurity (we all know haow Mal met her, she's not a shy lass when it comes to relationships) and more emotional immaturity - she's yet to learn to be objective - beleive it or not, the one thing that helps a girl learn that is talking things over with friends (girly gossip!) and who exactly, can she do that with?



I guess it's a little of both. Her insecurity stems from her tendency to idealize, which is an aspect of her emotional immaturity.

(Interestingly, it's of course nothing but the negative side of the faith she has in people. Kaylee projects her good expectations and most of the time, people want to live up to them. Mal, for one. But it just doesn't work that way in romance, which works against Kaylee.)

I did specifically emphasize insecurity, because Kaylee has low self-esteem. Bester is an idiot and even she can tell. There is nothing to be shy about, not to mention, it's sex. Kaylee's fine with sex. What cuts her down easily is physical appearance and class. She slinks away meekly hurt when Mal implies she doesn't belong in a pretty dress in "Shindig", conversations with Inara in "The Train Job" and "Safe" touch on Simon being "rich" or "much too (insert anything, as it implies superiority either way)" and sh specifically pushes for compliments about her looks in "The Message". Again in "Safe", Simon's disdain of her "class" cuts her very deeply.

She doesn't have much of a backbone in the series, which is not to say she can't be brave, but it generally takes coaxing, and her spirit is easily cut down in certain ways.


I especially like "The Message" because it ends with Kaylee having learned something about that idealized picture. While tracey says all the right things, he's a fake coward who played her like a fiddle. Simon is awkward and takes guts and determination to conquer, but he's honest and real, and she ends up approaching him and offering her unconditional support, just in that gesture of taking his hand. That was a lovely arch of character growth in the episode.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 1:41 PM

TRAVELER


Not much to add here. I'm in agreement with Desktophippie, Seryn, and Agentrouka. Kaylee is young and so still has some immaturity in her.
And when someone becomes important to you, like Simon is to Kaylee, you put them on a pedestal.
And Simon is immature when it comes to women. And his feelings for Kaylee probably make it worse.
http://flashgordon.ws/images/217.JPG
Ah the trials of true love

Traveler

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