FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Continuity between Ariel and the BDM

POSTED BY: ANNA
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 8, 2006 09:56
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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 7:13 AM

ANNA


My apologies (again) if this has already been posted somewhere. I'll get the hang of this eventually

So, I was just having a quick listen to the start of the "Ariel" file on bigdamncommentaries.com. It mentioned how nowadays, FFF have to just assume that when Simon first boarded Serenity in the pilot, he knew more than he was letting on. It's said that originally, this wasn't the case, but it was how Joss had to make it for the BDM, so we'll believe what's said in the BDM and assume he was hiding it from the crew in the pilot.

One problem with this. If he knew it all already, why did he even go to Ariel? He already knew they cut up her brain. "Neural stripping". (Granted, he didn't know what they cut up, but he knew, and for a doctor of Simon's caliber, I'm sure he would have at least suspected her amygdala). In Ariel, he's utterly shocked that they did it at all. Why would he have gone to Ariel (a high-risk core planet, no less), to find out what he already knew?

Now, I know we're already grasping at straws trying to put the series and movie together, but how do we make this fit?


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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 7:29 AM

SINGATE


In the BDM I don't think the doctor went into much detail regarding what was done to River. So while Simon may have had some ideas he needed as much information as possible before he could come up with any treatments for River. Hence, the diagnostic room in the hospital on Ariel. Using that sophisticated piece of equipment he was able to get a detailed picture of everything that was done to her brain. He was also able to save a record of it for detailed analysis and for further reference.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 7:37 AM

GRIZWALD


Maybe this is a good time for me to whine about scalpel scars on a brain 500 years into the future! Stereotactic radiofrequency brain surgery is already becoming commonplace now. Why would they be doing anything so barbaric and risky as hacking around with knives in a valuable subject's brain 500 years from now? That always bothers me.

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They couldn't take the sky from them.
Our Big Damn Heroes made a film!

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 7:56 AM

SINGATE


Simon says something along the lines of "They cut into her brain, they did it over and over."
Does he mention something about scalpel scars? He also goes on to say that they removed parts of her brain. This would necessitate some sort if invasive procedure. That doesn't mean a scalpel was used. It's likely they were using lasers or some other high tech method to cut into her brain. The diagnostic tool strikes me as being so detailed that he was able to see these procedures had been done repeatedly.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 8:08 AM

ALGUS


Actually, if anything, it makes more sense. Since he was there himself, he knew they were doing strange things to River. So he knew exactly where to look.

If he hadnt known anything more then just that when she got out of the cryo-tube, she was a nutjob he might not have initially known to look at her brain, he might have just thought the stress of whatever had caused her to snap.

---
Where's the KABOOM?! There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom! *sigh* Delays...delays...

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 8:50 AM

GRIZWALD


I stand corrected. I thought gamma knife surgery did NOT leave scarring that would be visible on imaging, at least not the imaging we have now. But I just checked and it DOES create scarring. So the cuts could certainly have been made with some sort of tight-beam radio knife technique.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

They couldn't take the sky from them.
Our Big Damn Heroes made a film!

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 9:00 AM

ANNA


Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
In the BDM I don't think the doctor went into much detail regarding what was done to River. So while Simon may have had some ideas he needed as much information as possible before he could come up with any treatments for River. Hence, the diagnostic room in the hospital on Ariel. Using that sophisticated piece of equipment he was able to get a detailed picture of everything that was done to her brain. He was also able to save a record of it for detailed analysis and for further reference.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.




That is very true, although he definitely knew they had cut into her brain, and in Ariel he seems to be making the discovery for the first time...I'm probably just nitpicking though :P

It's possible we could stretch it so that he was just exclaiming in shock though, that they really did meddle with her. Or that they did it multiple times, which I don't think Simon knew.

We could also say that he needed to be certain before he could prescribe any medicine that might otherwise harm River, and having records he can examine any time must have been mighty useful too.

Still, in Ariel, he says that they cut into her brain, and that the only reason to cut into a brain is to remove unhealthy tissue, to labotimize. So couldn't he safely assume that "neural stripping" refers to a labotomy of some sort?

I'm all over the place, sorry.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 9:11 AM

SINGATE


Quote:

Originally posted by Anna:
Still, in Ariel, he says that they cut into her brain, and that the only reason to cut into a brain is to remove unhealthy tissue, to labotimize. So couldn't he safely assume that "neural stripping" refers to a labotomy of some sort?

I'm all over the place, sorry.



I'll make this quick since I'm about to head out to work. While a lobotomy is actually taking out chunks of brain I have to believe that the neural stripping procedure was great deal more sophisticated. It they were indeed manipulating River's neurons it would require a great deal more information on Simon's part before he could try to counteract what had been done to her.

Sorry I couldn't get into greater detail, I'm bit pressed for time.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 9:26 AM

NOSADSEVEN


The fanwank I like to utilize to help smooth over the residual inconsistancies with Simon is that he wasn't just lying to the crew, he was lying to himself. He didn't want to believe that the Alliance had turned his precious little sister into a weapon. She was still his sister, and although they hurt her (broke her, even), he could still protect her, even fix her. He sought the neural-imager because he needed specifics as to how.

But, once on Ariel he was shocked at the extent of what they did, and how undeniable the damage was. He was dealing with that which he had refused to truly accept. And even after Ariel, he still didn't accept it all (like the likelyhood of needing to use the safe-word). /fanwank



~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 9:56 AM

SCHOONER


The term "neural stripping" did not necessarily have to refer to surgery. Dr. Matthias could have meant stripping the myelin sheath from the neurons in her cortex, similar to stripping the insulation from an electrical wire (the movie 'Lorenzo's Oil' touches on the consequences of that). That could have been done through other means; chemical or nanobots, maybe. When Simon says 'They stripped her amygdala', he could be shocked by just what neural stripping entailed, and how they went about doing it.

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