FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Which one is your least favourite Firefly episode?

POSTED BY: KHYRON
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 14:07
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VIEWED: 20864
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Sunday, October 16, 2005 4:22 PM

KHYRON


I'd have to say that Shindig is below par, compared to the very high standard that the series set.

Also, unfortunately, so is The Message, even though I thought there was some great drama (and a great musical score accompanying the funeral scene), but there were just too many loopholes in that one to make it enjoyable. Had the story been written in a way that avoids those loopholes but arrives at the same conclusion, then this might have been one of my favourites.

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 4:38 PM

REGINAROADIE


I'd have to go with "Heart of Gold" as the weakest ep. Mainly because it was the requisite SEVEN SAMURAI homage every western seems to make. They riffed on it to great comedic effect in the prologue to OUR MRS. REYNOLDS, but by HEART OF GOLD they fell into that trap.

It just wasn't that intriguing compared to the other eps, and Inara's "I'm leaving" statement at the end seems sort of taked on at the end, as opposed to something that came naturally.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
XANDER: (baby-talk) Who's a little fear demon?
C'mon, who's a lit-tle fear demon?
GILES: Don't taunt the fear demon.
XANDER: Why? Can he hurt me?
GILES: No, it's just… tacky.

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 4:43 PM

TINFOIL


The Message.

Ugh. I won't skip it, but I always consider skipping it. Of course, the worst Firefly is almost always better to anything else on television...

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Monday, October 17, 2005 7:27 AM

SICKDUDE


I'll take "Train Job" for two reasons. First, I partially blame it for losing viewership. Second, I hate the way it starts with a cliche: a saloon brawl. The worst, most contrived way to start out a great series!

In defense of Heart of Gold, I really liked it. The part where Inara breaks down in her room gets to me.

"Don't say 'ka' until you've tried it." Daniel Jackson

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Monday, October 17, 2005 5:21 PM

MADMAN007


I say "Out of Gas"........heee just kidding.
Yes, you are paying attention.

No, I say "Train Job" too, because it was the first show I saw when it first aired and like many others, I saw a weak episode and didn't watch another. I agree too many Western movie cliches....the train robbery....the saloon fight. If only FOX played the pilot first like normal networks.....coulda...woulda....shoulda.

I also say "Bushwacked" because it played like a poor man's version of Alien with the sole survivor becomming the alien. The fact that he slaughtered Alliance purple bellies was nice, but it was presented like cheap horror. And now, with what we know now from the movie (Spoiler disclaimer) it is hard to believe anyone can "become" a Reaver since their creation had to do with a failed attempt to control people.

Quote:

No.....this is what going mad feels like.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 5:31 PM

DIETCOKE


Heart of Gold. It just wasn't as funny or fun.

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Monday, October 17, 2005 5:49 PM

WHISPER


I really liked HoG, Shindig, and TM. The only ep that i ever skip over is Bushwacked. I'm not really sure why I don't like it as much. It just doesn't do it for me.

Want Firefly/ Serenity/ BtVS/ Angel desktop wallpapers? Take a look at the ones I've created at:
http://www.whispergraphics.org
Now hosting the Firefly Extended Gagreel

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Monday, October 17, 2005 6:41 PM

SHADESIREN


that's an easy question: Heart of Gold"

1) Weakest story - as mentioned, the Seven Samurai "rip off" type story that as said - is always done at SOME point in a western type setting.

2) Mal's move to sleep with Nandie - while I'm first to say that I understand the whys and hows and where fors, I got to see my Husband's point - If you REALLY REALLY love someone, you just DON'T sleep with someone else. This undermined my belief in Mal's love for Inara, and nearly broke my heart as much as it did hers. AGAIN - I KNOW WHY HE DID IT - hell, Inara practically TOLD HIM TO. STILL... got to go with my gut, and it says that was WRONG.

and um, beyond that, while it had some LOVELY funny moments and such, it just came across as the weakest to me.

and um, my husband seconds my vote lol

You know you want it - http://www.shadesiren.com (TEMPORARILY HOSTED at http://home.comcast.net/~shadesiren )

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Monday, October 17, 2005 9:42 PM

EPALMER


I am not a great film critic. However, I can tell you which ones I skip over.

If I only have time to watch a few episodes, I'll will typically skip, Bushwacked, Ariel, and the Message.

True, HoG may be a remake done many times, but I still enjoy it and the relationship issues still make me sad.

And I enjoy the Train Job. Who cares how "typical" something is if it is done well. How often in a typical bar fight does the hero basically and knowling start the fight.

Anyway, that is my two cents, not that it is worth even that.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 11:03 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Shadesiren:
2) Mal's move to sleep with Nandie - while I'm first to say that I understand the whys and hows and where fors, I got to see my Husband's point - If you REALLY REALLY love someone, you just DON'T sleep with someone else. This undermined my belief in Mal's love for Inara, and nearly broke my heart as much as it did hers. AGAIN - I KNOW WHY HE DID IT - hell, Inara practically TOLD HIM TO. STILL... got to go with my gut, and it says that was WRONG.



Shadesiren I agree with you about the episode but I gotta say an episode that has you feeling all this emotion I'd say is pretty much a successful episode. You may not like what you saw the characters do but the fact that you felt so much is testament to how 'real'(within the context of the show) that episode was... I say this because 'to err is human' and as you stated , you feel what Mal did was wrong. And that's right, what Mal did was wrong that's why the writers had him do this. Because real people, make bad and wrong decisions - that's kinda the point of that action....

Without these failing the characters become 'cartoons' who, can fall of buildings, get hit over the head with a frying pan and even swallow dynamite and never feel any kind of pain.

Although I don't particularly like the episode myself I always watch it for Inara's breakdown and crying which gets me everytime, more than any single scene in the entire season!!! It's simply so genuine and Morena does it so well, it feels so bloody real!!! I feel for her everytime. Now without Mals indescretion (and lets not forget he's not married to her) we wouldn't be witness to Inara's overwhelming pain, which for the first time allows us to realise just how in love with Mal she is. A sentiment which really had only been hinted at previously.

So y'know... For me it kinda works.

Cheers
The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Monday, October 17, 2005 11:38 PM

N0SKILLZ


I must say... it was the one were Fox canceled the show.. wait was that a real episode.. or jsut one in my head?

No seriously i think I gotta go with HoG even though it was the first one that really made me sad (with Inara crying and all)

-----------------
"It's not that there HAS to be a sequel. It's just that I've got so many IDEAS..."-Joss Whedon
*Andersen AFB, Guam*

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:33 AM

RIVERGIRL




I usually save bushwacked-our mrs reynolds, trash,objects in space till last

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 2:51 AM

ARAWAEN


Safe is my least favorite. It has its moments (as do all the eps) but the whole fundamentalist kidnappers thing annoys me.

I am not fond of Train Job either because as a substitute pilot it turned me off to the series and I didn't watch Firefly anymore until it came out on DVD (if only FOX had shown the pilot first).

As for Mal sleeping with Nandi in HoG, I am sorry just cause you love someone doesn't mean you don't move on with your life. Inara is married to her work, Mal and her will never be together and happy as long as she remains a companion. I think Inara's hypocrisy is telling. If its 'just sex,' she wouldn't have gotten upset.

Knowledge is sorrow; they who know the most
Must mourn the deepest o'er the fatal truth,
The Tree of Knowledge is not that of Life.
-- Byron

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Monday, October 24, 2005 7:06 AM

DANTHEMAN


Train Job is the worst...followed with Serenity (the movie). It's still way better than what's currently on TV..or in the theatres.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 10:34 AM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS


Heart of Gold was the only one that deeply disappointed me. When I show Firefly to new converts, to save time I usually skip that one and tell them "All you need to know about this episode is that Inara decides to leave because of her feelings for Mal."

I've seen HoG before, same plot and everything, in half a dozen bad westerns (not a big fan of westerns here), the only difference being the whorehouse is covered in tinfoil (explain to me again how that makes good solar sheeting??). There's nothing about the basic make-up of the episode that makes it uniquely Firefly, the crew's just been stuck in there because the cowboy was held up in traffic and couldn't make it.

Granted, there are still plenty of Firefly moments in there:
-Zoe and Wash arguing about having children
-River: "me too" and "I wonder who's in there"
-Inara breaking down. (Is it sadistic of me to enjoy that?)
-Mal feeling neither dirty nor girlish
That's because Firefly is a great show, and even its weakest episode has bits you have to adore.

The Message also had its weaknesses, but its basic concept was Firefly, not dinky western with Firefly superimposed, so it comes in a distant second place to HoG in the mediocrimeter.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:48 AM

JOYFULGIRL


You know, I'd have to go with Shindig. I just didn't really buy the art direction in that episode, the dancing and costumes all seemed really phony, as compared to other episodes where I feel like they really achieve an authentic, lived in aesthetic feel.

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:00 AM

JOSSISAGOD


"Bushwacked" was not as good as the rest, the plot seemed too small for a series so great!

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:51 AM

KHYRON



I always thought of Bushwacked as an episode of two halves. I really enjoyed the first half, while the second half, in spite of some amusing moments during the interrogation scene, is quite dull and boring in comparison.

I'm surprised at the bashing Heart Of Gold is getting on here. I don't think it's that great, but I wouldn't have thought that so many people would be unhappy with it. Huh.


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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:24 PM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


I don't know if I have a least fave . . . but if I had to pick one I'd say Train Job. It definitely had its moments, but it just wasn't as compelling as the other episodes. Not to me, anyway.

~~~~~~
No power in the 'verse can stop me.

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Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:43 PM

SHINYRT


The Message was my least favourite episode but I'd watch again and again for Jayne and his hat!


She understands. She doesn't comprehend.

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Saturday, October 29, 2005 9:14 PM

SNEAKER98


Wha...?

Am I missing something? Why are so many people hating The Message???

That's one of my favourites. I hear the explanations for Hog and Shindig (and understand them), but... why The Message? Can I get a good reason, please?

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

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Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:29 PM

KAYLEESWEETIE


I wasn't a fan of the show when it first came out. My wife had to make me watch it. She knew it was something special.

That said, I don't think there are any bad episodes. The characters are all heads and tails above anything else sci-fi related since the original Star Trek. The writing is right up there with MASH, All in the Family, Mary Tyler Moore, etc.

I am in love with Kaylee, too. I can't believe Jewel hasn't been in any other movies since "Firefly" left TV.

Firefly: Best sci-fi in a long time.

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 2:50 PM

MINRA



I had to tack this on to this "worst episode" thread as well.

Gold was easily the dumbest espisode of the bunch. It just does not mesh with the character Mal and what the whole crew is. They are scrounging for jobs all the time and they are *forced* to look out for number-one 90% of the time just to survive.

Who is Mal? "He's not an evil man... He hasn't lost his moral compass completely. He has just given up on the idea of the decency of human nature. Or that anything is worth fighting for, except the next meal and the people around him." ~Joss Whedon

Yet in Heart of Gold, Mal and the entire crew of firefly, risk DEATH in a deadly firefight - a western-style shootout because one hooker doesn't want to give up her baby. (cue Madonna song). The core of the conflict is this, and there's no exposition whatsoever to the interesting and real issues surrounding parental rights in a situation like this.

Instead, we get an entire firefly crew who is willing to kill, and be killed, as a favor.

We see the townsman whose barren wife won't give him a kid, which is reasonable motivation to seek a mother via a third party, yet the story is written to portray him with a shallowness that requires laser interferometry to measure. Why? They could have written him as the hardass town boss who has a valid motivation, but who botched negotiations with the whore. Or she could have been a surrogate who breached contract. All potentially interesting stories leading up to the conflict are ignored. There's not a fair protrayal of two legitimate interests in a conflict (something that Firefly does quite well in the alliance vs browncoat conflict).

To top it off, *it is assumed* that a woman has a higher claim to parenthood of an infant than a man. The attitude of this episode, the whole mental frame of reference is drenched in unjustified feminazi self-righteousness.

It's a mindless hackneyed cliche. It's just a dumbed-down good gals versus bad guys western bang-bang shootemup.

In defense of the producers, i see this as a protest against Fox, who had just cancelled the series during ep 12. To me this episode is a frustrated Firefly ranting at the lameness of the TV world "You want dreck? We can give you dreck! Here! See?"

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 3:58 PM

NIKI


I would say Heart of Gold is the weakest of the episodes. That's not to say that it didn't have its moments, because it did.

The Wash and Kaylee scenes were adorable and made me love their friendship. The Wash/Zoe scene was just sweet. Jayne,with the hooker had some great lines. River during the birth scenes was great. Inara crying over Mal was heartbreaking. And the final Mal/Inara scene was just...well, heartbreaking. They were all great moments.

However, I think Heart of Gold is the weakest episode because of the overall plot. As someone said, it felt like a huge western gun it up cliche of an episode. I watch it from time to time, but I usually skip it or just go to the scenes I like.

_________________________________________________
Bad Guy: And I think maybe you gonna give me a little one-on-one time with the missus.
Jayne: Oh, I think you might want to reconsider that last part. See, I married me a powerful ugly creature.
Mal: How can you say that? How can you shame me in front of new people?
Jayne: If I could make you prettier, I would.
Mal: You are not the man I met a year ago.

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 6:09 PM

SHINYGEEKET


I'm not exactly sure if I have least favorite. Like everyone else above me as pointed out, each ep has its moments, but if I had to pick, I'd say The Message. That ep bugs me for reasons unknown to myself, but I always watch it for Jayne and his hat, as well as for Wash's reaction when he see's Tracy on the bridge. This episode, in my opinion, is much better with the commentary. Since it was the last ep they filmed, you get to hear about the cast's end of the line antics from Alan and Jewel.

Also kind of hate the beginning of HoG, it's just too cliche.

Love the Train Job, don't care what anyone else thinks. It may be cheesy, but it's my kind of cheese

"We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... 'This Land'."

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Monday, October 31, 2005 4:32 PM

KAYLEESWEETIE


Minra: I think you are reading far too much into the episode instead of just enjoying the cast and their usual banter.

I try not to dissect a movie/TV program any more than is necessary.

Vic.

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Monday, October 31, 2005 4:53 PM

DAKCOBB


I say Heart of Gold as well. And for one reason above all... that cheesy POS hovercraft.

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Monday, October 31, 2005 5:12 PM

SERAFIMO


ACK!

Shindig is my favorite so far! (I haven't finished the DVDs yet)

Romance! Swordfights! Guys slapping each other in the face!

Poofy dresses!

*sniff*

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Friday, November 4, 2005 3:30 PM

DISKA


i actually really like heart of gold but i think thats just because of the stuff between mal and inara is really well done. it took me ages to actually like inaras character and it was when she broke down and cried int hat episode that made me like her- wow im so cold!

train job is my least favourite episode, its such a weak episode in comparison to the pilot serenity.

"Dear diary: Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. Today we were kidnapped by hill folk, never to be seen again. It was the best day ever."

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Friday, November 4, 2005 4:09 PM

PHAEDRA


Quote:

Originally posted by Arawaen:
As for Mal sleeping with Nandi in HoG, I am sorry just cause you love someone doesn't mean you don't move on with your life. Inara is married to her work, Mal and her will never be together and happy as long as she remains a companion. I think Inara's hypocrisy is telling. If its 'just sex,' she wouldn't have gotten upset.



I don't know if I agree. Sex means different things to different people. For Inara it's an intrical part of her chosen profession. For Mal, it seems to mean something more, at least to the extent that he does seem to display "puritanical leanings." So for Inara sleeping with someone is just business. For Mal, it should be highly personal. Inara's not crying because Mal porked some chick (one of her best friend by the way); but because emotions that should acompany that action for him.

Phaedra (a bad luck name)

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Saturday, November 5, 2005 5:53 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS


Quote:

Originally posted by minra:

I had to tack this on to this "worst episode" thread as well.

Gold was easily the dumbest espisode of the bunch. It just does not mesh with the character Mal and what the whole crew is. They are scrounging for jobs all the time and they are *forced* to look out for number-one 90% of the time just to survive.

Who is Mal? "He's not an evil man... He hasn't lost his moral compass completely. He has just given up on the idea of the decency of human nature. Or that anything is worth fighting for, except the next meal and the people around him." ~Joss Whedon

Yet in Heart of Gold, Mal and the entire crew of firefly, risk DEATH in a deadly firefight - a western-style shootout because one hooker doesn't want to give up her baby. (cue Madonna song). The core of the conflict is this, and there's no exposition whatsoever to the interesting and real issues surrounding parental rights in a situation like this.

Instead, we get an entire firefly crew who is willing to kill, and be killed, as a favor.

We see the townsman whose barren wife won't give him a kid, which is reasonable motivation to seek a mother via a third party, yet the story is written to portray him with a shallowness that requires laser interferometry to measure. Why? They could have written him as the hardass town boss who has a valid motivation, but who botched negotiations with the whore. Or she could have been a surrogate who breached contract. All potentially interesting stories leading up to the conflict are ignored. There's not a fair protrayal of two legitimate interests in a conflict (something that Firefly does quite well in the alliance vs browncoat conflict).

To top it off, *it is assumed* that a woman has a higher claim to parenthood of an infant than a man. The attitude of this episode, the whole mental frame of reference is drenched in unjustified feminazi self-righteousness.

It's a mindless hackneyed cliche. It's just a dumbed-down good gals versus bad guys western bang-bang shootemup.

In defense of the producers, i see this as a protest against Fox, who had just cancelled the series during ep 12. To me this episode is a frustrated Firefly ranting at the lameness of the TV world "You want dreck? We can give you dreck! Here! See?"



I'd agree with your assessment of the episode, except on one point. They don't go into why Burgess has no right to the infant (didn't he contract one, or is he an idiot?), but I would point out that if they didn't contract one, then sleeping once or twice with a whore is no reason you should get to run off with the baby she carried for nine months. Also, the word "feminazi" is guaranteed to score you points with the ladies. But they frankly did have both the "good guys" and the "bad guys" have no real explanation for the incident. It's like an episode of Xena, complete with the same actors and all...

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:12 AM

REDREAVER


Quote:

Originally posted by Madman007:


I also say "Bushwacked" because it played like a poor man's version of Alien with the sole survivor becomming the alien. The fact that he slaughtered Alliance purple bellies was nice, but it was presented like cheap horror. And now, with what we know now from the movie (Spoiler disclaimer) it is hard to believe anyone can "become" a Reaver since their creation had to do with a failed attempt to control people.

Quote:

No.....this is what going mad feels like.



while i enjoyed Bushwhacked, i must agree about "made" Reavers. of course having seen the movie first, i never really counted him as a Reaver. still, in the thick of it what good does it do you to make distinctions between for-real Reavers and copycats?


the hell was the name of that episode with Saffron? the first one. well, both of them... those would be my least favorite.


now all i need is a big gun and a "very fine hat"...

Reavers ate my homework

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Saturday, November 12, 2005 2:12 PM

20THCENTFOXHATER


I definitley don't hate any of the episodes, which is quite uncommon because all T.V. shows have poor outings. But I do have a least favourite, which would have to be Safe. I still like it alright, but there's just something about backwood hicks obsessed with God that I don't like.
I would have to agree with those who said it doesn't matter if a certain plot element has been done before, all what matters is if it's done properly. And Firefly pulls off western cliches very good.
On a whole, my second least favourite episode would be Train Job. I did like the brawl at the beginning, but when they were in Paradiso, the show didn't retain my attention as well as it could have.
Finally, I would have to say Serenity, Ariel, Our Mrs. Reynolds, Shindig, & The Message are my favourites.

"I aim to misbehave."

FOX executives who visited a pre-screening of Serenity met well deserved fates:

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Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:34 PM

FOREVERMYWASH


Quote:

Originally posted by Captain:

As for "The Train Job", I also felt it was one of the weaker stories in many ways, but it had a lot of external circumstances: it was written literally over a weekend under pressure and had to satisfy those gorram fools at Fox so that they would at least greenlight the series at all. Despite all that, I felt that Joss and Tim banged out a story that took a lot of western cliches and found ways to turn them on their heads a bit, turn them inside out. Mal being thrown through a holographic window for one, the ending of the episode involving the big ugly henchman for another.




Thanks for saying what I was thinking when reading what everyone was saying about The Train Job.

I would have to say that Heart of Gold is probably my least favorite but there are really good Wash/Zoe and Wash/Kaylee moments that make it much better for me.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 10:25 AM

SMAUG


Well.. it's hard to say what my "least" favorite episode is without clarification. As others have said.. even my least favorite episode of FF is probably 10 times better than just about any other show.

With that being said.. I would probably have to say Safe would be the episode I would watch last if I where watching them in order of preference. And I can't quite put my finger on it.. I think I need to watch it again, considering I have only seen it once, and I might have more insight. But I think it's maybe because I feel that episode has the least "story" to it. I think every episode gives us a self-contained story (but that is continous with what has happened previously), character developement/interactions/growth, hints at our character's secrets, and small peeks at the larger story arc Joss is trying to tell. And in each episode.. those elements are played to different levels. The best episodes are the ones where all those elements come together in a wonderful balance while telling a great semi-self-contained story.

But with all of that in just about every episode.. you can't cast off even ones' least favorite episode. Even as I would say Safe is my least favorite.. It is revealied in the episode that Book has a deeper more interesting past than we previously had imagined. We see that Simon is probably always going to stick his foot in his mouth when it comes to Kaylee. WE see that River does really love to dance. We see that River IS pyhsic. We see history repeating itself in the villagers of this boarder world reverting back to a 16th centry witch hunt type of mentality. Which ssems seems to be the bane of humankind in repeating history all over again.. and just seems very real. We see that even though Mal will say to not ever tell him what to do on his boat that he is NOT a dictator.. he does listen and take into account everyone's opinous and thoughts when he takes Inara's recommendation to seek help from the alliance. We see that Simon and River and part of Mal's crew.. but not yet part of the "family".. So we still see all these great character moments..

So we see all this, and this is just what I can remember off the top of my head, so in that.. it's still a great episode. Even if I didn't necissarily love the story of it..

Smaug..




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Monday, November 14, 2005 10:34 AM

BROWNTROUSERS


"Heart of Gold". I love every episode, but this, i feel, is the weakest of the bunch. I did'nt like the storyline as much as others, and the cheesy villain with the even cheesier hovercraft was a little annoying. Dont get me wrong, I really love cheesy television (see sig), but i really think that everything else about Firefly is so Un-cheesy, that even a slight bit of cheesiness dont seem right to me. It probably sounds stupid what im trying to say, but... yeah...

Also, the laser gun seemed out of place in this episode too - anybody else agree?

-------Huge Fan of:---------
Firefly\Serenity
Farscape
Andromeda (Early Seasons)

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:08 AM

JETFLAIR


For me, it's Bushwhacked. I don't enjoy horror, so the horror overtones of this episode ruin it for me. There is still plenty to love, as with all of Firefly; the interrogation scenes, the crew playing in the cargo bay, Mal saving the day even when unarmed and handcuffed, and so forth.


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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:48 AM

SHINYTALENT


Maybe I'm a big softie but I don't have a least favorite ep. I love all of them- they're all so shiny and sugar-coated


The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:54 AM

HERO


My least favorite is Episode 14. I was mostly disappointed with the complete lack of good writing, directing, and acting.

I expected more, especially after 13 great episodes.

H

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:39 AM

HAFTHAND


I have to go with 'Our Mrs. Reynolds' for the single reason that watching Yo-Saf-Brig is so very annoying as the biddable, i am so innocent, please let me be your wife!! I love sooo many things about that episode but unfortunatly if I was forced by gun to skip one it would have to be this because of her annoyingness.

Though watching all their reactions when they find out Mal is married would be hard to give up.

Love, Ally
'Comfort me with apples for I am sick of love' -Solomon

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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 12:11 PM

SMAUG


Now HoG seems to be really taking a bashing. I do agree with a lot of things people have said about this episode from a stand-alone story stand point.

WARNING.. Long Mal and Inara ramblings ahead..

First.. yes.. this episode does look sort of "cheap" compared to many of the others. Like the HoG itself. It looks more like they simply didn't have the money or time to complete it (either contruction wise or design wise).. rather than the weak attempt to pass it off as solar shielding (or whatever it was). And the entire bad guys "army" was a small hovercraft with a mounted gun (which Jayne took care of with one shot), a few guys on horses and a laser gun. Mal, Zoe and Jayne alone have taken on that much just by themselves. But Mal wanted to run from it? It didn't seem enough. I do like the fact that Mal will run/backdown from a fight. As a matter-of-fact.. he does it all the time according to Inara in shindig. lol I understand why they needed Mal to want to run, so that Nandi could give her reason of wanting to stay which would in turn show Mal something in her about how she feels about the HoG that he feels himself about Serenity. They needed that emotional connection, at the very least, or him sleeping with her REALLY would have been out of left field. But there didn't seem to be enough of a threat to make Mal want to run. And there are many other weak points of this particular episode that others have mentioned that I will agree with.

But.. when it comes to character development,interactions, relationship growth, etc. this episode has them just like all of them do.. but mainly there is a very pivotal and powerful moment in the relationship between Mal and Inara that make the entire episode worthwhile.

The Somnambulist said that Inara loving Mal has only been hinted at til HoG. I disagree.. no hinting at all.. I believe it has been shown very clearly from our very first introduction to Inara from the piolet episode. Our first introduction to her shows her with a client.. and she appears rather bored and not into what she is doing.. to the point that she may actually have spead her clock upto cut her client's time short. Why would she do this? I believe it is because of her feelings for Mal. The next time we see her in the piolet, just moments later.. she tells Kaylee that she must be "slipping". Is she? I believe that she is.. because of her feelings for Mal. So her feelings for Mal arn't hinted at, at all. And Mal likewise. As a matter of fact.. I believe everyone knows it, no River like physic ability required. LOL.. It's only Mal and Inara that are blind to each other's feeling and need of the other.

As Arawaen said.. Mal and Inara are not going to be together as long as she is a companion. They are both waiting... Mal is waiting for Inara to give up being a companion.. by her own choice. And Inara is waiting for Mal.. to let down his guard, to let go.. and simply express his burning desire to claim her as his. I think it was in Trash, but a couple episodes prior to HoG.. Inara asks Mal if he is purposefully keeping them out in the middle of no where where she is unable to even remotely find work. Mal of course denies it.. even though I believe it is probably at least partially true. I beleive that he might not be doing it on purpose.. but if keeping them so far out in space means Inara doesn't have any clients, then that is worth as much as the crappy jobs that they get being that far out. And I believe that is what Inara really wanted to hear. I beleive what she truely wanted to hear Mal tell her something like: "Yes.. Inara.. I am.. I (some chinese exlipcitive) AM!! I am glad you can't find any work out here, because I am jealous as #)($#)($* all get out. I'm sorry if you think me a (chinese deragative) for it.. and I don't know how that is going to effect your desire to stay on my boat.. But increasingly I can't stand the thought of you with yet another man. I can't )#(*$#)( stand it!! Not even just the sex.. but even touching... or even looking at.. or even being in the same gorram room as another man. It drives me )#($*#)($* nuts to even think of you taking off yet again in your shuttle to go be with another.. *sigh* Because from virtually the moment I met you... I've needed it... to be me. *long pause* And if knowing this effects your willingness to stay aboart my boat..... then.. I.." *pauses again, trying to hold back a universe of emotions* At that point.. Mal would not find the words to continue.. he could only stand there waiting for some response form Inara.. anything... anger.. shock... or.. being what Mal just told her what she has been wanting to hear.. a sudden acceptance and confession of her own feelings for him in a deep passionate kiss...

Now don't get me wrong.. I don't believe that is what SHOULD have happened.. Mal and Inara's story is long from being told.. but I believe that is WHAT she wanted to hear at that point.

But in HoG we see some very pivital events in Mal and Inara's story. We see Mal effectivly doing a favor for Inara with no expectation of payment. Why would Mal do something so out of character? Love. We see Mal choose to sleep with Nandi. I wish something "more" could have been done/shown to push him towards this. It might be possible to look at that Inara didn't want to accept this favor Mal is willing to do for her without payment as rejection. But I wish there would have been just one more inadvertant blunt rejection from Inara before Mal did what he did. But I do believe that like Captan said.. this shows that Mal is human.. he doesn't always do the right thing. He makes mistakes, he isn't ALWAYS one step ahead of everyone else especially when it comes to his heart and his very complicated and deep feelings for Inara. His feelings for her will always muddle up his emotions... at least until she IS his.

And Captann I believe you are VERY correct when you said that isn't this (Mal sleeping with another) how Mal feels every time Inara leaves onece again on her shuttle to go be with another client? It is... it cuts him just as deeply. There just hasn't been a clear cut scene that has shown it.. but it does. In order for them to ultimatly become closer, Inara needs to feel and understand this pain... and she does... in one all at one in one crushing moment. It shows the amazing strenth of Inara that she didn't break down right in front of Mal there in the hallway when she realizes what Mal just did. The shock of it probably was what helped her to keep her facade. Yet from Mal's standpoint.. she was very cold to him at that moment.. she lashed out.. and everyone else but him knows why. If Mal would have seen her break down just moments later.. the pain he had caused her would have cut him just as deeply.. becasue he already knows what it fees like. He lives with it every moment she remains a companion. His sleeping with Nandi.. even if it was just a temporary replacement for Inara.. is something that he will regret... very deeply. Nandi told Mal that she wasn't Inara because she didn't want him to hold back.. but I believe he deed.. he may have found a moment of release.. but he still held back tremendously.

We don't get to see this because of the show's cancellation. But I believe that after Inara would leave, we would see truly how dark Mal can be. We would see him on the edge of the abyss.. only Serenity and the rest of the crew barely holding him there.. from falling helplessly within. And on that edge.. we would have seen the regret.. and how deeply he would miss Inara every second she would be gone. IF you notice... after she feels this pain of Mal sleeping with another, the pain that Mal feels every time she is with a client, you notice that she goes to a companion house to teach.. and as far as we know.. she doesn't see any more clients. Which is what Mal has been waiting for.

We also see in HoG.. something else interesting that if the series would have continued to fruition, I have to wonder if it would come into play. This is the only time we see what it is like when Mal has sex. If you notice.. it wasn't that much different than how Inara does with her clients. Very kind and tender.. romantic... gentle.. etc. IMHO.. kind of boring.. lol.. Now IF we every would finally get to see Mal and Inara together... that begs the question of how would they be differnt than how we have seen them with other people? Granted.. on TV I don't know what they would be allowed to get away with... But I like to think we would see soemthing totally different... not that it can't or wouldn't be gentel/romantic/tender/etc at times between them, but I believe between it would more likely goign to be the weak-in-the-knees-rock-the-boat-knock-the-mattress-off-the-bed-break-a-lamp-can't-breath-for-a-couple-of-hours-kind-of-sex.. Athertan may have had "stamina" But I think Mal would show Inara that she doesn't yet know the meaning of the word.. yet!

So, yes, the self contained story of HoG could have been better.. but the pivital moments in the story of Mal and Inara.. make HoG more than worthwhile. If only all the issues that everyone has brought up about the story in this episode could have been resolved.. this very well could have been one of the better episodes rather than what most people consider one of their least favorites.

This particular episode comes down to how important is Mal and Inara's relationship to you. If you don't care that much about it.. then this episode will probably be one of your least favorite. If it is important to you.. then the Mal and Inara moments in this episode are probably too important to consider it your least favorite..

Smaug..

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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:19 PM

YORG


I don't like:

Heart of Gold - Had some humour (Jayne mostly), but was pretty boring otherwise.

Our Mrs. Reynolds - Pissed me off because the entire episode seemed to lack common sense. They should have turned around, and dropped her back on the planet. And what was up with Inara being pissed off? I wanted to smack her.

The fight in Shindig - I didn't mind the episode, but the duel was pathetic. With all the care Joss takes to make things seem believable in Firefly, he couldn't have hired a fencing trainer to teach the "expert swordsman" how to actually use a sword. But I'm bias because I fence, and hate it when it's done so incredibly poorly.

The Message - Sucked in the same way Our Mrs. Reynolds did. It was too obvious that something was up and the show should have been over long before it started.


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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:21 PM

SAKROVISHE


Quote:

Originally posted by Smaug:
And Captann I believe you are VERY correct when you said that isn't this (Mal sleeping with another) how Mal feels every time Inara leaves onece again on her shuttle to go be with another client? It is... it cuts him just as deeply. There just hasn't been a clear cut scene that has shown it.. but it does. In order for them to ultimatly become closer, Inara needs to feel and understand this pain... and she does... in one all at one in one crushing moment.




actually there is a huge emotional distinction in the pain Inara feels when Mal makes that choice to sleep with Nandi. Because unlike clients who are Inara's work, Mals decision was personal - not a job or career. And Inara perceived it as exactly that - a personal choice to have shared himself with another woman.
Inara sees clients -but not to seek personal pleasure from this or emotional connections - it is a job. Mal would have cried just as bitterly the day he found Inara in the bed of another man and realized that it was not a 'client' or a job, but a night she had spent with someone else as a personal choice.


They are in love, and in that there is a very fine line between job and personal. Joss establishes from the very beginning that Inara's profession is respectable and acceptable. So we have to see it as that. I don't think Inara would have sobbed quite so hard if Mal was a cosmic stud simply on a job humping space chicks. She might have dissapproved, but it would not have cut as deep.

We don't see such elaborate pain from Mal in the episodes - because he never experienced the extent of such a pain. It would be he who would have to learn what that it feels like.

Purely from a Mal-Inara standpoint HoG was my least fav episode for that unneeded blow to their building relationship.

Bring them closer? I don't think so. Inara did what any other red-blooded woman would do. She left.

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Friday, November 18, 2005 8:36 AM

REDREAVER


Quote:

Originally posted by Smaug:

............

The Somnambulist said that Inara loving Mal has only been hinted at til HoG. I disagree.. no hinting at all.. I believe it has been shown very clearly from our very first introduction to Inara from the piolet episode. Our first introduction to her shows her with a client.. and she appears rather bored and not into what she is doing.. to the point that she may actually have spead her clock upto cut her client's time short. Why would she do this?

................




she wouldn't. Inara may be many things, but she is above all professional. i'm quite sure that line was intended as a shot at Inara from an egocentric client too embarassed to admit the only way he could get some was to contract a Companion.


--------------------------------------------

now all i need is a big gun and a "very fine hat"...

Reavers ate my homework

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Sunday, December 4, 2005 3:24 AM

CBY


Quote:

Originally posted by Hafthand:
I have to go with 'Our Mrs. Reynolds' for the single reason that watching Yo-Saf-Brig is so very annoying as the biddable, i am so innocent, please let me be your wife!! I love sooo many things about that episode but unfortunatly if I was forced by gun to skip one it would have to be this because of her annoyingness.



I second that in its entirety. I like her in "Trash" though.

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Sunday, December 4, 2005 5:34 AM

EMMA


Objects in Space just doesn't do it for me. I accept that isn't fair though because it would be a fantastic episoe if the series had continued. AS the last one though it is a bit 'eh?' It is a shame they weren't able to have some kind of conclusion but hey, what the hell

The one I avoid because I am a cowardy custard is War Stoeis. the torture scene is a bit much for me to handle. I am such a woos.

I must admit I can't see why people don't like Shindig. It is my favourite - along with Out of Gas.

Just goes to show FF fans are a topsy-turvy lot!

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Sunday, December 4, 2005 5:59 AM

CHRISISALL


There is no episode that I don't like, however 'Bushwacked' is probably my least viewed, therefore I guess, my least favourite. I ve seen it like 3 or 4 times compared to at least 6 for each of the others (and many more for the pilot, Out Of Gas, Ariel and Objects In Space).

But then, I've only had the series since late Feb.

Chrisisall wacked

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Sunday, December 4, 2005 6:00 AM

RIVERGODDESS


Yeah, it does seem that everyone marches to their own drum beat, huh? That's what makes this 'verse so unique. In my opinion, the only episode I have no problem skipping is HoG, but I always love the Kaylee/Wash scene, and the River birthing scene. When she says "Me too". Best line. Anyway, I just didn't like the flow of it. I did watch it yesterday to givie it another chance, and was still like "meh".

As for episodes like Objects in Space (one of my absolute favorites!) I can see why people don't like it, but still...I actually liked the way it ended, sort of open, yet bringing some kind of closure between Kaylee and River and the crew's acceptance of River as an actual person. I'd be frustrated, though, had I been a fan before the movie, and having to wait so long after such an open ending to that eppy.

Safe. Love it. It's one of my top favs, as well. The Simon/River scene always chokes me up. The Message is a good one, not my favorite, but I still rewatch it every once in awhile. There are so many good moments to point out. And someone mentioned skipping Ariel, which I usually fast-forward the blue-hands-killing-spree scene....bleh, I still love Ariel and its moments. And Shindig, can we say hilarious? That's one episode I'll never tire of.

You know, I always liked "Our Mrs. Reynolds", but not as much as the others. When I saw the deleted scene from it, though, I kinda liked it more, for some reason. If they had left that scene in, I think it would have been so much better. Time-wise and plot-wise, I can see why they cut it out, but it's just so cute!

*~*~
Summer's response to Nathan getting his very own action figure:
"I tried to pull his head off."

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Sunday, December 4, 2005 3:09 PM

MALSGIRL


I have a problem with picking a least favorite, because ever time I go back and watch an episode I thought I didn't like much, I end up liking it. lol

But if I had to pick I would probably say 'Safe' or 'Heart of Gold.' It's not that I have anything against Safe, it just never really clicked with me. I do like the end though, the whole 'yeah but she's our witch.' Still makes me laugh.

Heart of Gold, in general I don't mind it. But I really do have a problem with Mal bedding Nandie. It just seemed so out of character for Mal. I remember the first time I watched the episode, I was sitting on the couch screaming at the TV/Mal not to do it. Yes, I know it won't change a thing, but I just couldn't help it.

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Monday, December 5, 2005 2:43 AM

CBY


Quote:

Heart of Gold, in general I don't mind it. But I really do have a problem with Mal bedding Nandie. It just seemed so out of character for Mal.


You are absolutely right. I think Joss used this merely as a trigger for the famous "Inara-cries-the-shit-out-of-her" scene.

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