FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

War Stories

POSTED BY: HOTFORKAYLEE
UPDATED: Sunday, February 15, 2004 17:37
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VIEWED: 7507
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Friday, December 6, 2002 4:06 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE



Excellent episode. Great for Firefly fans and those who even haven't seen the show yet.

To many great scenes and great lines to post in a short amount of time. How about Jayne and his going to his bunk? or how my Kaylee freezes up and how River responds?

Just like Joss said, Great episode!

Quote:

"What kind of head of security would I be if I let people like me know things that I am not supposed to know. I know what I know, because I have to know it and if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me and don't let anyone else tell me either."



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Friday, December 6, 2002 4:17 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


I really love River kicking some ass. I am never getting over that. I mean, that's on par with the jet engine thing. "No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

I also love Mal and Wash's "conversation" over electricity. And Wash's about-face on his opinion of Mal. Personally, this is yet another reason they should have shown the original pilot. There is alot more foreshadowing about the Mal/Wash confrontation there.

And the whole thing with, "Hold on. I think this is something the captain has to deal with himself." "No it's not!" "All right, then."


Oohhh! Ohhh! Annd the whole part with "Him. Oh, you were going to make me choose right? Do you want to finish?"

Oh, and by the way, this is me gushing. Roswell may be dead, but it is not gone. :)
________________

I love that flick. When Trinity's all, "Dodge this" and the agent just crumples to the and I'm not really instilling any awe anymore, am I?

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Friday, December 6, 2002 4:18 PM

KOBAYASHI


Holy Cow! This series is so great! What an excellent episode... not just for Firefly, but for TV in general. I was laughing so load I was scaring my cat. Jayne and 'I'll be in my bunk'... too funny. And how often does a sci-fi series get a 'parental guidance' warning attatched to it! Violent, yes. Man, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. I was sure that someone was going to die. And someone did. Not who I expected, but thats just some great writing...

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Friday, December 6, 2002 4:23 PM

XERIAR


"No power in the Universe can stop me."

I'm not as sure that that was intended to be funny.
Kaylee was obviously a little spooked.

(I remember one time, I joked about taking over the
world. There were people who thought I was serious.
That kinda scared me...)

I loved how Zoe just said 'him'.


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Friday, December 6, 2002 4:23 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


yeah, I saw that warning, and I was like, Yeah! Those warnings always make me really happy. Yes, Joss pissing off the religious right, one episode at a time.

________________

Note to self. Religion: Freaky.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 4:36 PM

RADEGUND


I am even more intrigued by Book's history now! He knows a hell of a lot about evil dictators and weaponry. I think shepherding is a second career for him.

Also I'd just like to voice appreciation for the quick shots of a shirtless Simon for next week. Yummmmm...

Radegund

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Friday, December 6, 2002 4:39 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE


Boy, not to scare anyone but I was just checking out the FOX Firefly board and they have this awful discussion going on about Inara's scene with a woman. Theres bible verses and all sorts of derogatory terms beeing thrown around for gay and bisexual people. The world can be a scary place sometimes.

Thats why this board is so great. Everyone here has a love for this show and gets along kinda like on Firefly except for that whole "why Firefly deserves to die" thing.

Can't wait for next week. I'm gonna rewatch Inara's scene a couple of times and then I'll be in my bunk.

Quote:

"You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."


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Friday, December 6, 2002 4:43 PM

SOLETA


Quote:

Originally posted by Xeriar:
"No power in the Universe can stop me."

I'm not as sure that that was intended to be funny.
Kaylee was obviously a little spooked.




My thought when I saw that scene: "They made her into a killing machine!" I think we just solved THAT mystery...

- soleta

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Friday, December 6, 2002 4:51 PM

RADEGUND


Quote:

Originally posted by soleta:
My thought when I saw that scene: "They made her into a killing machine!" I think we just solved THAT mystery...

- soleta



Possibly an assassin who looks cute and harmless so her victim won't suspect?

Or if you had a whole army of psychics, then your HQ would always know exactly where its soldiers were and what was going on at all times. Powerful stuff.

Radegund

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Friday, December 6, 2002 4:56 PM

RIV


Yes, I agree Xeriar and Soleta! The way Kaylee looked at River after she did she what did and then again when she looked up and saw River on the stairs, she was spooked.

I think they did make River to be some kind of weapon. She knows what will happen before it does, she seems to be able to read minds, why not also make her a killing machine? Plus, there were like three guys coming at them, and River didn't even have to look to kill them. That says killing machine to me.


Something's going down tonight! Something with the man!

Two by two. Hand of blue.


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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:18 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


Oh, yeah, WEEKS ago, after Ariel, I was all Like, "I think River is like a agent out to get Blue Sun, and someday, she's gonna snap and take out some Blue Sun stuff that isn't on a label or a shirt." And there were others that were all, "You are strange and off-putting and I think you're wrong." Yeah, well this latest ep lends alot to my whole Spike-Ain't-The-Only-Brainwashed-Time-Bomb Theory, don't it?

And I really think this show is having a negitave effect on my grammar.

________________

No, this is left over from every army movie I've ever seen, but it makes sense.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 5:43 PM

MELEE


I LOVED this episode! Hopefully, this will lay to rest anyone's doubts about Zoe's feelings for Wash... they may be an odd match, but she loves the guy. Adored how she had absolutely no hesitation about who to choose. The end scene was great too... Mal and Zoe are so mean! Pickin' on my poor Wash!

Jayne was a riot this episode too! ("I'll be in my bunk." *snigger*)

Favorite lines:

"Him. You were going to ask me to choose, right? Sorry, do you want to finish?"

"This is somethin' the captain needs to do on his own."
"No! No it ain't!"
"Oh."

Zoe's completely deadpanning "Take me sir, take me hard." This one had me laughing so hard my sides hurt, and Jaynes reaction too. In fact, this whole scene was just hilarious... the fact that Mal and Zoe looked a bit uncomfortable with the whole kissing thing (Zoe looked like she was hoping Wash'd intturupt so she wouldn't have to do it, hehe).

"We'll be in our bunk." Is it just me, or did Zoe smirk on her way out?

Loved the little bit of homage to "Our Mrs Reynolds" with Zoe cooking.

Loved Wash and Zoe trading knicknames in their little fight. ("Lamby toes"? *choke*)

My suspicion has been for a while that they made River into some killing machine. Tonight only fuled thoughs thoughts!

Overall, great episode, loved finally having a lot of Wash/Zoe interaction... now I just wanna know the details of how they went from "He bothers me." to getting married. Hey JOSS! Keep Wash and Zoe together and happy! Pretty please! I'll sell you my soul! Wait... I sold my soul for a dime last year... gorram... well... *thinks* Hey Joss, do you respond to chiken sacrifice?

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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:07 PM

DARKANGELSLAYER


Quote:

Boy, not to scare anyone but I was just checking out the FOX Firefly board and they have this awful discussion going on about Inara's scene with a woman. Theres bible verses and all sorts of derogatory terms beeing thrown around for gay and bisexual people. The world can be a scary place sometimes.


So true.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:43 PM

DARKLADY


Is anyone else thinking that was a "Mulan" reference in "War Stories"?

I've heard rumors that Joss is fond of the movie and then he goes and references an insane warlord named Shan-Yu, who also happened to be the bad guy in "Mulan"?

I'm smelling something beyond a coincidence!

DL

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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:48 PM

KEF


How about-

Simon: I never shot anyone before.

Book: I was there son. I'm fair sure you haven't shot anyone yet.


This show so just SO addictive!

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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:54 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


Am I the only one that found it visually stunning how when River was fireing the gun, her hair was hiding her face. We don't know what her expression was. Both badass and creepy all in one! Love love love this show.

________________

We need to resort to cannibalism.

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Friday, December 6, 2002 6:56 PM

KEF


Quote:

Originally posted by LivingImpaired:
Am I the only one that found it visually stunning how when River was fireing the gun, her hair was hiding her face. We don't know what her expression was. Both badass and creepy all in one! Love love love this show.

When River took the gun from Kaylee, she said to herself, "Can't look. Can't look."

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Tuesday, December 10, 2002 7:52 AM

KURUKAMI


But she did take a quick peek around the corner to check out their locations before taking the shots. For some reason, I find myself flashing back to a little subplot in another show, "Alias", last season. There was a guy who had been programmed to respond to certain code phrases -- say the right words, and he'd do anything you told him to, even kill. Say them again, and he'd completely lose all memory of what he'd done. (Of course, the guy's memories started seeping back, making him think he was nuts, and we finally met him inside an asylum, but...)

Anyways, the scene with River at the airlock makes me think of that. Perhaps she was trained as an assassin, yes -- but one which was completely undetectable, and that moreover couldn't betray her part in any plot because she didn't remember it. That one line -- "Can't look, can't look..." -- implied a lot more than a multiple personality disorder (one persona kills, while the other is terrified and wants to look away) to my eyes.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:00 AM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


Quote:

Originally posted by Kurukami:
But she did take a quick peek around the corner to check out their locations before taking the shots. For some reason, I find myself flashing back to a little subplot in another show, "Alias", last season. There was a guy who had been programmed to respond to certain code phrases -- say the right words, and he'd do anything you told him to, even kill. Say them again, and he'd completely lose all memory of what he'd done. (Of course, the guy's memories started seeping back, making him think he was nuts, and we finally met him inside an asylum, but...)

Anyways, the scene with River at the airlock makes me think of that. Perhaps she was trained as an assassin, yes -- but one which was completely undetectable, and that moreover couldn't betray her part in any plot because she didn't remember it. That one line -- "Can't look, can't look..." -- implied a lot more than a multiple personality disorder (one persona kills, while the other is terrified and wants to look away) to my eyes.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.




I like that theory, but for the fact that isn't that the exact same thing they're doing on Buffy right now? Only for that reason, do I believe its something different.

________________

"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." -- Joss Whedon

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Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:39 AM

IDEFIX


can't it be, that she's just a nice little girl that doesn't want to kill people but has the ability to and sees the necessity too?
Kaylee wanted to kill those men but she simply couln't. and River said she can't look but shot them without looking. I think she just wanted to help and she has the ability to read peoples minds and sometimes see the future, so why not a terrible good aim without even looking?
makes her a nice backup weapon for the crew. as long as no one has a blue sun t-shirt on.

and I think Zoe didn't choose Wash because he is her husband and she can't live without him or something. Zoe isn't the overly romantik type. she's a soldier. she's seen war. she doesn't think that way. she chose him because she knew Mal would live if she left him there but Wash would break without Mal and be dead or insane before they could come up with a second plan. it was a pragmatic choice. and Wash knew he'd be dead or insane if it wasn't for Mal. Zoe knows them both very well, so I suspect she knew too.

think about the situation reversed. what if Niska had captured Zoe and Wash, and Mal would have to chose whom to get free. I'm sure he'd choose Wash too. not because he loves him or something but for the same reason Zoe did. he'd know he has the chance to come for Zoe later because she could stand some torture. she's seen it all before.

just my two euro-cent
Idefix

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Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:39 PM

GAHERIS


Quote:

Originally posted by DarkLady:
Is anyone else thinking that was a "Mulan" reference in "War Stories"?

I've heard rumors that Joss is fond of the movie and then he goes and references an insane warlord named Shan-Yu, who also happened to be the bad guy in "Mulan"?

I'm smelling something beyond a coincidence!

DL


Alright, Now it's my job to destroy some myth, Disney's "Mulan" is based about a legend from China. Like many of its Disney movies. However, Shan-yu is not the weird baddie you see in Mulan. I havn't unearthed much on him since unfortunately the disney character has now swamped the web but he probably was a real man with similar beliefs to what Book quoted. That does not mean that it's not a reference to the bad guy in Mulan, but rather a reference to someone from Chinese legend. Contrary to popular belief, Disney does not rule the world though that is where Shan yu would have been heard of by the most people. (By saying that I've probably called down a SWAT Disney strike on my house but sure whatever )

Now onto River. Yes, that was an incredible scene. I like the contrast between the Tam siblings as Simon couldn't aim worth anything, and River, no doubt boosted by subconscious training or innate abilities managed to blast 3 people with a no-look. Now I think River isn't a trained killer. She could be but I don't think so. Standard issue is you don't make your genius' trained killers because they are well... genius'. So then, I believe River has recieved some sort of training or awakening of powers previously latent and she still is (partially) the little girl who went to the academy. Thus explaining the "can't look" because she believes it would take too long or hinder her abilities and the matchless way she fires. If any of that made sense, let me know.

-Gaheris

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Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:34 AM

KURUKAMI


Quote:

Originally posted by LivingImpaired:
I like that theory, but for the fact that isn't that the exact same thing they're doing on Buffy right now? Only for that reason, do I believe its something different.



Beats me. I must be one of the few who never really got snared by Buffy's net.

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Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:52 AM

SERENITYNOW



Disney's "Mulan" is based about a legend from China. Like many of its Disney movies. However, Shan-yu is not the weird baddie you see in Mulan. I havn't unearthed much on him since unfortunately the disney character has now swamped the web but he probably was a real man with similar beliefs to what Book quoted.


I don't know about that. As far as I can tell (which isn't much--there isn't much available through googling on him unless you like bad fan fic), Disney pretty much made him up. And that indicates, unfortunately, a weird Disney reference in "Firefly". I'm trying now to research him over in Taiwan to prove my theory wrong, but I have to admit it's a real possibility.

Only one guy seems to believe he was real: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5082/names.html
but even he says that it's a title, not a guy. Which leads me back to square one.

Anyway, email me (f3k64@yahoo.com) if you know of any other leads.

http://dryope.typepad.com/superfly/

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Sunday, February 15, 2004 12:32 PM

FIREFLYWILDCARD1


On the Mulan thing:

Disney's Mulan was based on a Chinese legend. However, as is usual for Disney, the writers butchered the legend and changed things to be politically correct and get a happy ending. In the Chinese legend, the bad guys (the Mongols), win and butcher the Emperor. Also Mulan did not survive til the end of the legend. And if she had, the Emperor would have had her executed.

That's as much as I know of the legend. I don't know anything about Shan-yu.

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Sunday, February 15, 2004 5:37 PM

SERENITYNOW


Well, but this is the Han Dynasty, potentially the beginning of 3 Kingdoms era (see the URLs above for historical placing, which is hard). The emperor wasn't slaughtered to a Hun takeover--in fact, the Huns were beginning to be slowly pushed West during this time towards, well, Hungary and the rest of it. They ended up losing. And the Han Dynasty only fell when everybody in China dogpiled on top of everyone else after the later empereors lost the "mandate of heaven".

My point is--Disney just went wild with history. As for the legend, there isn't one--there's many. I mean, people are divided on Mulan's /name/ (Fa, Hua, something else?). So I think history is irrelevant, and all my (preliminary) research points to this Shan Yu guy being completely made up. (see my website for the full spiel)

Anyway--my husband knows much more about the Han D. than I do. Maybe if we get a MD/PA shindig we can talk about it. ;)

http://dryope.typepad.com/superfly/

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