CINEMA

Atlas Shrugged

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Thursday, May 19, 2011 13:22
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Sunday, March 20, 2011 12:35 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




Reason.tv presents exclusive, behind-the-scenes footage of the movie adaption of part I of Ayn Rand's epic and hugely influential novel, Atlas Shrugged, which tells the story of a United States crumbling under the weight of government intervention and the "men of the mind" who fight against their collectivist exploiters.

This sneak peek offers a glimpse into the post-production process as well as portions of a never-before-viewed scene from the movie.

***SPOILER ALERT*** This video contains portions of a scene and actors discussing the actions of their characters.



This pivotal scene features James Taggart (played by Matthew Marsden, Black Hawk Down, Transformers), the weak-willed, conniving brother of the film's heroine, Dagny Taggart, as he conspires with the likes of corrupt lobbyist Wesley Mouch (Michael Lerner, A Serious Man, Barton Fink), shady businessmen Orren Boyle (Jon Polito, Miller's Crossing), and Paul Larkin (Patrick Fishler, Lost, Southland), to bring down the successful steel magnate Hank Rearden. They view Rearden's supposed threat of monopoly over the steel and railroad industries as on obstacle in the path to success for wealthy playboy Francisco D'Aconia, with whom they're investing their money, though James Taggart is suspicious (perhaps rightly so) of D'Aconia's trustworthiness and business acumen.

Atlas Shrugged Part 1 hits theaters April 15 (April Fools Day).

Produced by Hawk Jensen and Ted Balaker. Camera by Alex Manning and Jensen, who also edited.

Special thanks to Harmon Kaslow, Mike Marvin, and John Orland.

Approximately 2.5 minutes.

To see our exclusive behind interview with the producer and screenwriter of Atlas Shrugged Part 1 go to:



To see all our Ayn Rand videos go to:
youtube.com/user/ReasonTV#grid/user/5DD8AB31C88BE88D.

To see the original Atlas Shrugged Trailer go to:
http://www.atlasshruggedpart1.com/

Go to http://reason.tv for HD, iPod, and audio download versions of this and all our videos and subscribe to Reason.tv's YouTube channel to receive automatic notification when new material goes live.

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Sunday, March 20, 2011 1:15 PM

WHOZIT


Rand is a hero to the right and "Atlas Shrugged" besides being pure right-wing porn is her greatest work. This book was writen in 1957, hard to belive it took 54 years to make it to the big screen. My guess is it'll be trashed by every left-wing critic and pundit, I bet Rodger Ebert and Ed Shultz have already written their negative reviews, even though I'll bet they haven't seen it yet.

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Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:06 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:

Rand is a hero to the right and "Atlas Shrugged" besides being pure right-wing porn is her greatest work. This book was writen in 1957, hard to belive it took 54 years to make it to the big screen. My guess is it'll be trashed by every left-wing critic and pundit, I bet Rodger Ebert and Ed Shultz have already written their negative reviews, even though I'll bet they haven't seen it yet.



My understanding is Rand is a fascist psycho selling anarchy for the New World Order. Many would-be fascists fell into the trap of backing the shadow world govt of the Kosher Nostra banksters that now own the planet and all govts via their private "govt" bank countefeiting and income tax scams. Some knew about the Ponzi scheme, but I don't know if Rand was one of theme, or just another Useful Idiot.

So is Atlas propaganda placement, or a useful warning to awaken the idiots? Didn't her psychotic hero end up promoting false-flag terrorism and eugenics to wipe out the human race, like that's a good thing?

Or has this script been tweaked to eliminate that idea from the minds of the sheeple?

The NWO loves to tell the sheeple exactly how they are going to be sheared next, like X-Files Lone Gunmen simulated the Real World Operation Northwoods, of CIA hijacking an airliner by remote control to crash it into the World Trade Center in a false flag attack to start a war...6 months before 9/11/2001.

This technique is like "constructive notice" of litigation like bankruptcies and foreclosures you see every day in the newspaper. An adhesion contract with the masses -- if you don't object, the contract becomes accepted for enforcement...even when it kills you.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 11:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Well, I finally saw it. It was decent. Not great, by any stretch, but watchable.

The +'s are, it was absolutely on message. Even if those totally unfamiliar w/ what that message was, I think it did a good job in at least that part.

Possibly too good ? And by that, I mean there was little in the way of entertainment. It came off as sort of 'dry'. And I know this isn't your typical sort of movie, that it's SUPPOSE to be all real worldly and such... but a little clever script tinkering, here or there, wouldn't have hurt, imo.

It was a low budget film, I get that. There are no significant FX. No giant title waves swallowing NYC, no F5 tornadoes taking down sky scrapers... so 'The Day After Tomorrow' wins that category, at least.

Low budget, but a lot of recognizable faces. Is 'character actor' demeaning ? I don't know, but lots of folks I'd seen pop up, here or there, as supporting cast, what ever. So there was decent talent, at least.

Armin Shimerman is an Whedon alum ( Principal Snyder from Buffy ) as is Patrick Fischler ( Angel ). I enjoyed seeing both again. There may have been others...


Anyway, apart from the so-so movie experience , it was amazing at how well the story depicted the Statist mindset, and how mis / disinformation gets spread via a compliant media. Absolutely mirroring what goes on in the real world today.

If the movie is a C, then the message is a solid A.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:09 PM

DREAMTROVE


Thanks for the reviews. Maybe I'll take a look. I have a limited tolerance for Rand who I think is a destructive force overall, but had a few good ideas. An on message story will perhaps give me a quick straightforward delivery of those ideas.

I agree with her on the rejection of collectivism, but I think her followers tend to reject cooperation to such an extent that no collaboration towards anything, even the formation of a functional corporation, is possible.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:12 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Don't hold your breath waiting for Parts II & III - the producer says he's "on strike" and not doing anymore movies - also known as taking his ball and going home.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Don't hold your breath waiting for Parts II & III - the producer says he's "on strike" and not doing anymore movies - also known as taking his ball and going home.



“Atlas Shrugged” producer: Okay, we’ll make parts two and three

The man who says he spent $10 million of his own money to bring Atlas Shrugged: Part 1 to the big screen vowed Wednesday to go through with his plans to make the next two installments, even though critics hate the movie and business at movie theaters has fallen off a cliff…

“It was a nihilistic craze,” Aglialoro said. “Not in the history of Hollywood has 16 reviewers said the same low things about a movie.
“They’re lemmings,” he said. “What’s their fear of Ayn Rand? They hate this woman. They hate individualism.

“I’m going to get a picture of Ebert and Travers and the rest of them so I can wake up in the morning and they’ll be right there. They’re revitalizing me with their outrageousness.”
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/atlas-shrugged-producer-promises
-two-182714



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 2:43 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Thanks for the reviews. Maybe I'll take a look. I have a limited tolerance for Rand who I think is a destructive force overall, but had a few good ideas. An on message story will perhaps give me a quick straightforward delivery of those ideas.

I agree with her on the rejection of collectivism, but I think her followers tend to reject cooperation to such an extent that no collaboration towards anything, even the formation of a functional corporation, is possible.




There's a part in the movie which is particularly prophetic, as it mirrors damn near EXACTLY what's going on in the real world, right now.

If you've followed the latest news on Boeing opening up another production plant in South Carolina, and the National Labor Relations Board taking steps to block Boeing, AFTER the plant has already been built ... you'll say " how the fuck did they know this would happen when they made this movie ??? "

Or better still, how did Rand know this would happen, over 50 YEARS ago ??

That'll bake your noodle.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/04/atlas_shrugged_producer_s
hrugs.html


Quote:

"Critics, you won," John Aglialoro told the L.A. Times. "I'm having deep second thoughts on why I should do Part 2." The businessman invested $20 million of his own fortune to make the critically derided feature, but, "Why should I put up all of that money if the critics are coming in like lemmings?" Aglialoro asked. "I'll make my money back and I'll make a profit, but do I wanna go and do two? Maybe I just wanna see my grandkids and go on strike."




http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/movies/2011/04/atlas-shrugged-producer
-critics-you-won-hes-going-on-strike.html


Quote:

Aglialoro attributed the box office drop-off to "Atlas Shrugged's" poor reviews. Only one major critic -- Kyle Smith of the New York Post -- gave "Atlas" a mixed-to-positive review, calling the film "more compelling than the average mass-produced studio item." The movie has a dismal 7% fresh rating on review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes thanks to critics like the Chicago Tribune's Michael Phillips, who said "Atlas" is "crushingly ordinary in every way." Roger Ebert called the film "the most anticlimactic non-event since Geraldo Rivera broke into Al Capone’s vault," while Rolling Stone's Peter Travers said the movie "sits there flapping on screen like a bludgeoned seal."

"The New York Times gave us the most hateful review of all," said Aglialoro, who also has a writing credit on the movie. "They didn’t cover it."





http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/05/02/atlas-shrugged-pr
oducer-comes-crawling-back-to-hollywood


Quote:

It was just a terrible weekend to be a conservative: The Atlas Shrugged movie pulled in a meager $468,573 at the box office. This means the film has made $3,947,827 in its three weeks in wide release. Again, it cost an estimated 20 million dollars to make and market. Quick, somebody figure out how many DVDs they'd have to sell in order to turn a profit!

The Wall Street Journal interviewed the film's producer, John Aglialoro about his hopes that Hollywood will now want to partner in making the second part of a projected trilogy whose first film is a remarkable failure:

As for making second and third installments of “Atlas Shrugged,” Aglialoro said he wouldn’t proceed until he had a more extensive marketing plan in place.

Ideally, he would also like to partner with Hollywood for the next go-around. “It’s my hope that some of the major studios will believe that this is not just a movie and it’s over. I’m open to making a deal with a major studio. I don’t want to fight them. I want to join them,” he said.

He said he’d be open to doing another $10 million independent production. “But wouldn’t it be nice to do a $50 million movie? And now the studios have a laboratory in part 1.”

This is the same guy who said he was considering going on strike and not make any more Atlas Shrugged movies because the critics hurt his feelings. Good lord, this is so much fun to watch. I mean, I knew the movie would flop, but who knew the action of flopping would take so long or be so enjoyable?





What was it Ayn Rand said about throwing your own money away trying to get people to like you?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, May 16, 2011 12:16 AM

DREAMTROVE


Oh now this is just funny. I'm sorry, you both should be able to see just the ironic humor of the situation: An Ayn Rand'er refusing to cooperate with others in a collaborative manner to make Ayn Rand films.

ETA:
Quote:

And he defended his film Wednesday by accusing professional film reviewers of political bias. How else, he asks, to explain their distaste for a film that is liked by the audience? At Rottentomatoes.com, 7,400 people gave it an average 85% score.


http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/atlas_shrugged_part_i/
13%:81%? He has a point.

Applying that idea, about schmidt, bridge to terabithia, Analyze This. Okay, he's hitting 100% here. I'm going to guess critics liked Sideways more than the audience did as well... WTF? 97%. This film was unwatchably bad.

Now apply that in the other direction "Films that lean right" and see if the audience likes it more than the critics. The island, serenity, Priest I haven't seen, but I can guess, yep. Okay. He definitely has a point. I'll have to see the movie.

I'm curious as to people's thoughts on Good Will Hunting.

I'm sad to see the concept of "critics" return, the old media is invading the new media. I suggest we kill it swiftly and painfully.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, May 16, 2011 2:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Despite the wishes of the doubters & " experts " ( the Left ) movie looks to be moving ahead. Wish our BDM would do the same...

After 50+ years, if not now, then when?

Haters gonna hate.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, May 16, 2011 2:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


The discrepancy between critics and viewers isn't that hard to understand if you think about it.

1) How many "right-leaning" critics do you know? The job description "movie critic" kind of *IS* the embodiment of the whole "liberal arts" thing...

2) A vast majority of critics hated the movie. Some of them may even have been objective about it, and simply found it to be a poorly-made movie and a bad example of moviemaking, or full of plot holes and terrible acting. HOWEVER, a vast majority of VIEWERS actually quite liked the movie. How can this be?

Well, given the way the movie was marketed - internet, word-of-mouth, etc., not a wide release with a media blitz - it's entirely possible that it was marketed to its primary market, and ONLY its primary market. I was hearing about it for months from right-wingers everywhere. And lo and behold, all of them went to see the movie, and most of them loved it.

The people who went to see the movie were those who already liked it. Those who knew about it and didn't like the message weren't likely to pay theater prices to see something they were predisposed to not like already. There will likely be some success in DVD sales, because it's right-wing porn, and even those 'wingers who didn't much care for it will still buy it to support the cause.

I doubt the movie will break even, and it certainly isn't on track to be a blockbuster of any sort. It's highly doubtful any studio is lining up to put money into a sequel to a money-losing prospect. Hell, "Serenity" broke even, and probably is profitable now, given DVD/Blu-Ray sales - yet where are the studios? Where are the sequels?

The problem "Atlas Shrugged" ran into was that pretty much its entire target audience went and saw it on opening day, and that was about it. And it turns out that it's just not a very big audience.

Most of the tea-partiers also seem to love Ted Nugent's music; critics don't. Does that mean he's a great musician? 85% of his fans say he is! (His fans comprise about 0.00000000001% of the American population, though.)* [/snark]




* [These figures have no basis in fact, which makes them every bit as valid as Rand's "philosophy".]

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, May 16, 2011 8:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:


The problem "Atlas Shrugged" ran into was that pretty much its entire target audience went and saw it on opening day, and that was about it. And it turns out that it's just not a very big audience.

Most of the tea-partiers also seem to love Ted Nugent's music; critics don't. Does that mean he's a great musician? 85% of his fans say he is! (His fans comprise about 0.00000000001% of the American population, though.)* [/snark]




I didn't see it opening day, as I stated. There were quite a few folks in the theatre too. ( thought I'd have the whole place to myself...dammit )

Ted Nugent ? He's a aging rock star, who sings about cat scratch fever and doin' the Wango Tango. What that has to do w/ Atlas Shrugged, is irrelevant.

I'm sure there's an age group of TEA party folks who use to party to the Motor City Madman. And he is a very talented guitarist. Or, use to be. Not real sure what his skills are these days.

He certainly can play guitar better than most pop artist can sing, for what that's worth.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, May 16, 2011 4:06 PM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Despite the wishes of the doubters & " experts " ( the Left ) movie looks to be moving ahead. Wish our BDM would do the same...

Haters gonna hate.

You've probably never seen it unless you bought a bootleg at Comic-Con, but Roger Corman once churned out an awful, mega-low-budget big-screen version of The Fantastic Four that was produced quickly and cheaply only because Corman's rights to the material were about to expire. That's what happened with Atlas Shrugged as well -- producer John Aglialoro apparently spent 17 years trying to get this film made, and he finally rushed into shooting with two days left before he'd lose his rights to the book. The result is a film that has the flat, airless look of a Tori Spelling made-for-cable movie filmed in Vancouver. - www.movies.com/movie-reviews/atlas-shrugged-part-i-review/grae-drake/m
67952


Dear Objectivists, don't get mad because, no joke, if this were a weekly series on Showtime, I would watch it every week. And you know it could be –- Showtime airs Gigolos, after all. - www.movies.com/movie-reviews/atlas-shrugged-part-i-review/dave-white/m
67952?pn=1


Nagging Question I Want Ayn Rand To Answer From Beyond The Grave: I'm curious about the scene where a corporate titan's house burns to the ground and it's reported that fire trucks from other counties have to be called in to fight the blaze. Who does this person think he is, suckling at the public teat of fire department service? Shouldn't he go out and earn his own fire department to put out his possibly arson-related incident?

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, May 16, 2011 4:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



That one individual has likely been the generator for more tax $ going into that county, state to fund a hell of a lot more than a few fire trucks.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, May 16, 2011 4:34 PM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

That one individual has likely been the generator for more tax $ going into that county, state to fund a hell of a lot more than a few fire trucks.

Ayn Rand collected social security and medicare, so don't get your panties in a wad over a economic theory. "Who is John Galt?" My ass...

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

That one individual has likely been the generator for more tax $ going into that county, state to fund a hell of a lot more than a few fire trucks.

Ayn Rand collected social security and medicare, so don't get your panties in a wad over a economic theory. John Galt my ass...




You claim that, but I see no proof...

Either way, nice shift from the topic of her fictional character to her private life. Clever.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:25 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


It's worth noting that Ayn Rand was once considered so beyond the pale on the political spectrum that William Buckley called her an idiot to her face. William Buckley. Told someone to fuck off. For being too conservative. Let that seep in. Would that today's conservatives had as much sense. - http://antagonie.blogspot.com/2011/04/pinch-of-galt.html?showComment=1
303536741954#c9092139759889467976




The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Again , pointless personal attacks, to take shots at her political views.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:16 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Again , pointless personal attacks, to take shots at her political views.

I will clue you in: Politics is Personal. So, what is your personal problem, Auraptor, that philosopher John Galt in Atlas Shrugged: The Phantom Menace could solve? I'm guessing that your taxes are too high or you hate your job and you're angry at how unfair people are to you. They are stealing your liberty! You want moral justification from a movie for tax avoidance or quitting work? Ayn Rand might have the answers you seek!

But did Ayn Rand truly create a morality, Objectivism, which can be proved by logic? No. She failed. Sorry about that. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/03/16/moral-real
ism
/

I'm late to give my personal objection to Objectivism: Alan Greenspan. Some say Greenspan is not an Objectivist, to which I say, "Baloney." http://the-undercurrent.com/blog/alan-greenspan-is-not-an-objectivist

And let's keep it personal. I forgot Charles and David Koch http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/d/a/david_seaton/2010/
08/the-koch-brothers.php


The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 5:15 AM

DREAMTROVE


I don't think this is personal, but Greenspan is an excellent argument against Ayn Rand.


Mike,

you're right: Critiquing is a pretty liberal thing to do with your life, it's probably natural selection, the way interior decorators are gay.

Also, math problems aside, about fans. That's why Fast Five ranks so high: Only people who liked the first 4 saw it. I feel almost certain that it is not more of a cinematic work of art than that elephant merchant ivory looking thing I haven't seen.

This factor of course gives a nice boost to Serenity


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 6:41 AM

MENDUR


Quote:

Atlas Shrugged: The Phantom Menace


That's funny. I hadn't seen that one before.

* * *

On "Atlas Shrugged" and why I'm not going to go see the movie in a theater:

I've read the book ... twice. Leaving aside the bulk of the philosophy for a moment, it really comes down to one thing: Randian superheroes are idealized people who don't act like you and me (examples provided upon request).

If I want to see improbable superheroes doing improbable things in a movie, there are a number of comic book films coming out. At least most of those don't take themselves so darned seriously.



The Codex Menduri: http://mendur.blogspot.com

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 9:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Is Ayn Rand running for office ?

No ?

What gets me is that, most of those who attack her, are basically saying they are entitled to control the lives of others, via the Federal Govt. The more you squeal like stuck pigs over Objectivism, over Rand, and this movie, the more I'm inclined to take interest in them. There must be something really really right if Lefties get so pissed off over this stuff.



I don't give a damn about her personal life, so your childish attempts to demonize the message of her books is falling upon deaf ears.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 10:22 AM

STORYMARK


Ya hear that everybody? Saying anything personal about someone is totally out of line..... if Rappy likes them. Even when their personal lives have direct bearing on the philosophy they espouse.

If he doesn't like them.... well, all's fair.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:19 AM

DREAMTROVE


Rap,

Hostility towards Ayn Rand comes from life experience with her proponents. I don't think this is partisan or political.

It's a little bit like the way a lot of people react when you say "Jehovah's Witness." Not saying it's the same, at all, but that's another life-experience based stigma.

Look at it this way: Each of us has known Ayn Randers, including some avid ones. Probably everyone on the board knows half a dozen of them. Everyone here has watched someone they know, possibly more than one, convert to Ayn Randism while they've known them.

Examine the social interactions that people have with the Ayn Rand crowd:

1) They love Ayn Rand. They can't shut up about her. This immediately attaches everything they now do to her. Scientologists are kinda like this with L Ron Hubbard. Whatever it is they do, he can't shake.

2) Ayn Rand followers are very self directed self motivated people, which is fine, but they tend to be useless to everyone else. They are always engaged in their projects, which they want you to help with, but they never want to help you with your project. It's mildly psychopathic, because it's almost as if other people don't exist to them outside of the framework of "what can this person do for me?"

3) The whine and bitch and moan when things don't go their way. Everything is an affront to them, because they are the most important people in the universe. If something went wrong, someone else must have screwed up, and screwed them over. There's a lack of introspection within the followers, as they tend to externalize faults, and internalize goals.

Now, picture that you are someone who wants to get something done. Everyone has goals they want to achieve, and most of us recognize that doing so requires cooperating and compromising with others, whom we recognize as having their own goals, ideas and aspirations, and with some recognition towards the idea that this person is devoting their time to helping us with our project.

Now you, yourself posted that work is not economically deterministic, and since work is by its very nature cooperative, then it stands to reason that anyone helping you with your work is also achieving their personal goals, which means that you have become a team through the alignment of mutual goals.

No such alignment can happen without mutual respect and recognition than other parties are people with goals as important to them as yours are to you, and that together you are more than the sum of your parts, which is the purpose of working together.

Now picture what happens when we are working on something and someone comes in and tells you that Ayn Rand is their favorite author. Based on past experience, we know exactly what to expect:

The will set their own agenda, and expect you to go along with it. Any compromise will be superficial, the only real work they will spend any real time doing is that which serves them. If called on it, they will aver that this is how things are supposed to be, and then berate you for calling them on it, assume you think just like they do, and then complain that they are only here to help you and this is what they get? And then if anything should go wrong, you can be sure that you will get all the blame.

Why would anyone work with such a person?

That's what you're really hearing. It's not to say that Ayn Rand didn't have any useful ideas, but that she created a lot of useless people. And that's what they are. They contribute nothing to the country, their communities, their corporation or govt. for which they work because they are far to busy attempting to serve themselves, and do not realize that any real accomplishment comes from collaboration of people towards a mutual goal, and that people other than themselves are capable of thought, have their own ideas, aspirations etc.

IMHO, Ayn Rand, as a net effect on society, goes right up there with Timothy Leary. Picture a primitive tribal society of these people, either one: Everyone would go off by themselves and try to learn to fish. If someone caught fish, they'd keep it and eat it. Everyone else would starve. This society would never move forward because of it self-disabling nature, too self-absorbed or too stoned to actually coordinate any more advanced activities, and so it would live until it encountered any other society at all on the planet, who would then roundly kick its ass.

That said, I'm willing to listen to her ideas, with the recognition that her followers make the CoS look like Leonardo da Vinci.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:30 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Is Ayn Rand running for office ?

No ?



Pretty sure she's not, her having been dead for nigh on 30 years now and all.

But quite a few of her followers are.

Are you claiming that one's followers can't be influenced by their philosophies?

So tell us all: Is Bill Ayers running for office? Saul Alinsky? Che Guevara? Are any of them running for office?

Quote:


What gets me is that, most of those who attack her, are basically saying they are entitled to control the lives of others, via the Federal Govt. The more you squeal like stuck pigs over Objectivism, over Rand, and this movie, the more I'm inclined to take interest in them. There must be something really really right if Lefties get so pissed off over this stuff.



So you agree that there must be something really really right with the idea of socialism, then? After all, why else would you get so pissed off over it? How about communism? What in it scares you so? Is it because it's so "right"?



Quote:


I don't give a damn about her personal life, so your childish attempts to demonize the message of her books is falling upon deaf ears.



So personal attacks are off-limits for your idols, but not for anyone else, eh?

As has been pointed out already, Rand's personal life informed her philosophy, and vice-versa. She lionized a sociopathic murderer, after all. Seems if she was a Democrat, you'd have enormous problems with that.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:41 PM

STORYMARK


Anyone wanna bet this is the point at which Rappy bitches out of the thread?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:53 PM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Mike,

you're right: Critiquing is a pretty liberal thing to do with your life, it's probably natural selection, the way interior decorators are gay.

Liberal brains are different than Conservative brains:
Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure in Young Adults, Current Biology 21, 677–680, April 26, 2011

PDF: http://bit.ly/lqLQn9 or Summary: www.cell.com/current-biology/retrieve/pii/S0960982211002892

"In a large sample of young adults, we related self-reported political attitudes to gray matter volume using structural MRI. We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased [bullshit] volume of the right amygdala."

"Conservatives respond to threatening situations with more aggression than do liberals [1] and are more sensitive to threatening facial expressions [5]. This heightened sensitivity to emotional faces suggests that individuals with conservative orientation might exhibit differences in brain structures associated with emotional processing such as the amygdala. Indeed, voting behavior is reflected in amygdala responses across cultures [6]."

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:37 PM

DREAMTROVE


Two,

That's just plain silly. I've known a lot of people who have switched sides, myself included, I doubt that a change in brain structure was involved.

Many years ago, I noticed that liberals were educated, and the educated were liberal. Later I figured out that was because the education was loaded with biased content. It could just as easily have been loaded the other way, and in religious institutions, it usually is. If there's a difference, I would say that conservatives are more skeptical of their fellow humans, and in time, I've become more skeptical. When you are skeptical enough, concepts like "social programs" cease to make sense because you no longer trust anyone with the management of anyone else's life. Similarly, "education" ceases to make sense on the same grounds, and "taxes" on a similar one: that you don't trust anyone with that much money. I think this goes hand in hand with the other thing I identify as a conservative trait: Cautious. If you're skeptical and cautious, you tend to be averse to change, and spend less, keep more, and try to hold to the values and structures that you have, and are probably just less impulsive as human beings. For a lot of people, this is probably a matter of personal experience: Has change generally treated you well? Or would you have been better off without most of the changes that have occurred?

My general assumption lately has been that any political or economic change happening now is being enacted by an elite group of thugs to steal as much as possible in money and power by squashing the masses, and so I'm skeptical of all of it.

Republican is no more likely to be conservative than democrat, IMHO. Republicans voice half a dozen conservative positions, but they rarely act on them. Conversely, Democrats voice about half a dozen liberal positions, but they rarely act on them.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 3:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

So tell us all: Is Bill Ayers running for office? Saul Alinsky? Che Guevara? Are any of them running for office?


Great examples. A violent terrorist, one calling for all out personal attacks on anyone who opposes collectivism, and a mass murderer.




And the great crime of Ms Rand ? That the ideas and rights of the individual should not be controlled by the state ?

Or, as Mal puts it...

" So me and mine got to lie down
and die so you can live in your
better world?
"

SHAME !


Sorry folks, NOT GONNA HAPPEN.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 3:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Anyone wanna bet this is the point at which Rappy bitches out of the thread?



How old are you. 12 ?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 5:03 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Or, as Mal puts it... " So me and mine got to lie down and die so you can live in your better world?"

SHAME ! Sorry folks, NOT GONNA HAPPEN.




On War: "the internal affairs of other countries are not the responsibility of the United States"

On WWI+II: “World War I led, not to [Wilson’s] ‘democracy,’ but to the creation of three dictatorships: Soviet Russia, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany. World War II led, not to [Roosevelt’s] ‘Four Freedoms,’ but to the surrender of one-third of the world’s population into communist slavery.”

On Vietnam: "The same intellectuals ... denounce any patriotic opponent of America’s self-immolation – the same groups who screamed that it was our duty to save the world when our enemy was Germany"


So, she's consistent, and I agree with her. WWII didn't end Hitler or stop the holocaust, in fact, it may have caused it.

So, can we revisit this idea about the US in the middle east?

Is it our responsibility that Saddam Hussein had WMDs? (Okay, we sold them to him, so we're responsible) but this isn't our problem, right?

What about Afghanistan? The Taliban pose no threat to the United States and never have. They were hardly supporters of Osama, who complained a fair amount about the Taliban. Guilty or not, he and his ragtag band of cave dwellers that could no more topple America than palestinians with stones could topple Israel.

If it's not our responsibility then can we get our asses out of these and admit it was a mistake?

Not just snarking, just trying to get this clear.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 5:29 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Two,

That's just plain silly. I've known a lot of people who have switched sides, myself included, I doubt that a change in brain structure was involved.

Many years ago, I noticed that liberals were educated, and the educated were liberal. Later I figured out that was because the education was loaded with biased content. It could just as easily have been loaded the other way, and in religious institutions, it usually is. If there's a difference, I would say that conservatives are more skeptical of their fellow humans, and in time, I've become more skeptical. When you are skeptical enough, concepts like "social programs" cease to make sense because you no longer trust anyone with the management of anyone else's life. Similarly, "education" ceases to make sense on the same grounds, and "taxes" on a similar one: that you don't trust anyone with that much money. I think this goes hand in hand with the other thing I identify as a conservative trait: Cautious. If you're skeptical and cautious, you tend to be averse to change, and spend less, keep more, and try to hold to the values and structures that you have, and are probably just less impulsive as human beings. For a lot of people, this is probably a matter of personal experience: Has change generally treated you well? Or would you have been better off without most of the changes that have occurred?

My general assumption lately has been that any political or economic change happening now is being enacted by an elite group of thugs to steal as much as possible in money and power by squashing the masses, and so I'm skeptical of all of it.

Republican is no more likely to be conservative than democrat, IMHO. Republicans voice half a dozen conservative positions, but they rarely act on them. Conversely, Democrats voice about half a dozen liberal positions, but they rarely act on them.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

The study will need to be repeated many places elsewhere before it is a confirmed fact. The results for the group tested in University College London might not hold in the USA.

Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure in Young Adults, Current Biology 21, 677–680, April 26, 2011

PDF: http://bit.ly/lqLQn9 or Summary: www.cell.com/current-biology/retrieve/pii/S0960982211002892

I doubt that political evils in the USA are due to bad men of some sort and curable by the substitution of good men with better brains.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 7:32 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Anyone wanna bet this is the point at which Rappy bitches out of the thread?



How old are you. 12 ?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Just figured you'd repeat your usual behavior.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 7:34 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

So tell us all: Is Bill Ayers running for office? Saul Alinsky? Che Guevara? Are any of them running for office?


Great examples. A violent terrorist, one calling for all out personal attacks on anyone who opposes collectivism, and a mass murderer.




So, once again you prove what a hypocritical doucehbag you are.

It's okay for you to judge people by the company they kept, but as soon as someone does the same to one of your sad little right wing heroes, and it totally different.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 8:08 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

So tell us all: Is Bill Ayers running for office? Saul Alinsky? Che Guevara? Are any of them running for office?


Great examples. A violent terrorist, one calling for all out personal attacks on anyone who opposes collectivism, and a mass murderer.




So, once again you prove what a hypocritical doucehbag you are.

It's okay for you to judge people by the company they kept, but as soon as someone does the same to one of your sad little right wing heroes, and it totally different.



Exactly - In a thread where Rappy will quickly dismiss ANY argument against Randian philosophy as a "personal attack" on her, he'll also quickly attack any other person on a personal basis for their political beliefs and philosophies.

And of course he never bothered to address the question. How very typical of him.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 9:15 AM

STORYMARK


That's because he's a right wing zealot.... and rather unintelligent.

For a long time I thought it was an act, but now, I really do think he is that tiny minded.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 9:27 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
That's because he's a right wing zealot.... and rather unintelligent.

For a long time I thought it was an act, but now, I really do think he is that tiny minded.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



Thanks for trying turn the cinema forum into RWED, complete w/ petty name calling and needless insults.

Bravo.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 10:19 AM

STORYMARK


Yeeeeah.... Because that wasn't happening before I posted.

And you NEVER do that kinda thing.

Right, I forgot - it's always okay when you do it. Tool.

Go ahead and whine. I know you think playing the victim means you won't have to answer questions, or back your bullshit, or deal with your own hypocrisy.

We don't expect any better from you. We just sit back and watch the idiot implode, over and over.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 10:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Anyway, as I said...

Not the greatest flick, quite average, if even that.

Liked seeing some familiar faces, and if part 2 is made, I'll certainly go see that as well.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Anyway, as I said...

Not the greatest flick, quite average, if even that.

Liked seeing some familiar faces, and if part 2 is made, I'll certainly go see that as well.




Sounds like snobjectivists are really into supporting blandness.

Your "review" boils down to "not great, average at best, I'll certainly go see Pt. 2"

Kinda like, "Yeah, Scream 3 really sucked - can't wait for 4, though!"

I'll let you in on a little clue: Two of shit, is still shit. If they really wanted to fuck you, I guess they'd make Parts 3, 4, and 5, since you're such a fanboy that you'd line up for those as well!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:31 PM

STORYMARK


Im sure there are some scientologists waiting for Battlefield Earth 2.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 18, 2011 3:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Im sure there are some scientologists waiting for Battlefield Earth 2.




Now that was darn near funny.





" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, May 19, 2011 3:49 AM

KIRKULES


I enjoyed the movie, so did my apolitical wife and left leaning libertarian friend. I do think reading the book first is a good idea, but the movie is worth watching even if you haven't.

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Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:47 AM

DREAMTROVE


Two,

Curious to see where the data got corrupted. I feel I can reject the conclusion out of hand on two very obvious grounds: 1) politics are inherited, but not genetic, and 2) people change.

But that said, it's possible that what they're looking at is religious brains vs. academic ones, and then is the difference the cause, or are they both brainwashed in different ways?

My offhand guess is that a lot of left-thinking is fairly left-brained, and comes from academia. If you learn your politics this way, you probably have a different structure to that information than if you learn it at the dinner table, church, or figure it out for yourself.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:52 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Two,

I feel I can reject the conclusion out of hand on two very obvious grounds: 1) politics are inherited, but not genetic, and 2) people change.

But that said, it's possible that what they're looking at is religious brains vs. academic ones, and then is the difference the cause, or are they both brainwashed in different ways?


The students self-reported their political attitudes confidentially on a five-point scale from "very liberal" to "very conservative" and then their brains were scanned in an MRI. I don't want to spoil the story by giving away the surprise ending, but I will give you a paragraph so you will want to read the rest online:

Quote:

To test the hypothesis that political liberalism (versus conservatism) is associated with differences in gray matter volume in anterior cingulate cortex, we recorded structural magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans from 90 healthy young adults (61% female) who self-reported their political attitudes confidentially on a five-point scale from "very liberal" to "very conservative" [3, 7]. We then used voxel-based morphometry (VBM) analyses [8] to investigate the relationship between these attitudes, expressed as a numeric score between one and five, and gray matter volume. We found that increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex was significantly associated with liberalism (Figure 1A) (R = 22.71, T(88) = 2.633, p = 0.010 corrected; see Experimental Procedures for full details of analyses). We regressed out potential confounding variables of age and gender in our analysis (see Experimental Procedures). Therefore, our findings are not attributable to these factors.
Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure in Young Adults, Current Biology 21, 677–680, April 26, 2011

PDF: http://bit.ly/lqLQn9 or Summary: www.cell.com/current-biology/retrieve/pii/S0960982211002892


The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, May 19, 2011 10:32 AM

DREAMTROVE


I don't think you've removed age when your subjects are students. As someone who studies the brain a lot, I haven't seen any actual brain talk here, might just be technobabble.

Color me highly skeptical.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, May 19, 2011 1:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Im sure there are some scientologists waiting for Battlefield Earth 2.



LOL.



And given the reactions and the attendance levels (they fell off a cliff after opening weekend), I think the post-mortem on the movie would read, "Atlas Shrugged - And So Did Moviegoers".

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