GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

POSSIBLE SPOILERS!: Browncoats let themselves down

POSTED BY: WHOISRIVER
UPDATED: Saturday, May 7, 2005 07:30
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3566
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Friday, May 6, 2005 7:48 AM

WHOISRIVER


Yes, it's a minority again.

For those who don't know, the US had a screening day of Serenity.

Lots of people went yesterday.

Any today... A small number of people are flooding forums across the 'net telling people how bad the movie is. Why? They didn't like 1 or 2 things in the movie. That's it.

One person has even set up a site asking people to NOT see the movie as they didn't like it. Apparently a 'growing number' of people are joining their cause.

The upset is the plot. I'm not going into spoilers (**AND EVERYBODY NEEDS TO RESPECT THAT**). Long story short: it's a Joss Whedon script. Lots happens. Change is in the air.

And a few people (a small amount) can't handle that.

I get they didn't like the movie for these reasons (really, I do), but the fact some of them are plastering things across the Internet is pretty pathetic. Some of them are accusing Joss of all sorts online, and one has been threatening Joss (I'm not kidding). Because they didn't like change.

Sigh.

Overall, the browncoat feedback has been exceptionally positive. Really, really good. Incredibly good. But a small number of people are determined to undermime the entire thing now, and that really saddens me.

On the plus side, I'm off to get very drunk now.


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Friday, May 6, 2005 8:03 AM

CHRISISALL


As Spock once said, "Change is the essential nature of all existence", and people wanting Serenity to be Firefly should just keep watching Firefly, and not see Serenity.
Did changes take place in Buffy or Angel? Uhh huh. So what makes them think we wouldn't be seeing things change somehow or another for our beloved crew of Serenity?
I, for one, am ready for anything Joss sees fit to deliver upon us (gee...that did sound sorta biblical and such).
DON'T be sad, WhoIsRiver, there's always a few bees on the way to the honey.

A few stings won't stop us Chrisisall

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Friday, May 6, 2005 8:08 AM

SIMONWHO


Is it too much to hope that after this "sting", they'll collapse on the ground and die?

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Friday, May 6, 2005 8:16 AM

WHOISRIVER


The problem (well, one of) is that Firefly wasn't on the air long enough to get lots of Joss Whedon's trademark writing.

That is, major plot twists, and things ALWAYS change in Joss's writing. Always. Season 5 of Angel is completely different to Season 1 of Angel.

Joss wrote Serenity in his usual style, delivering the story he had in his mind for Firefly. Lots of the decisions he had in Serenity he had planned for the TV series. Oh yeah.

I'm not mad people can't cope with that. What I am mad about is the website and people going across the 'net trying to get people to boycott the movie because they didn't like the plot.


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Friday, May 6, 2005 8:26 AM

FRSCPE1


I'm liking the fact that people are getting mad at stuff in the film. To me it shows how deeply these characters and their story have ingrained themselves into our minds, while we might not like certain aspects of the story, we get an emotional response from it, something you won't get with lets say...according to jim (I know, cheap shot).

"Well, other than being shot at by the Electric Mayhem, I'm fantastic."

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Friday, May 6, 2005 8:29 AM

BIKISDAD


WIR is right. I'll bet (and I posted similarly on another thread) that the Browncoats who are upset are people who've never watched Buffy and Angel - and therefore aren't really familiar with Joss' long-term storylines. I'm sure that whatever Joss put in the movie is what he already had planned for the tv show. I'm sure that when people settle down and THINK about it, instead of just reacting, they'll realize that what Joss did was right for THE STORY. For Joss, the STORY is more important than anything, including our feelings.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Friday, May 6, 2005 8:30 AM

BECSTHEBEAST


ok
well i haven't spent anytime surfing round other sites since i landed back here again a couple of weeks back - this site has been soooo much more interesting then the others and you know what already i feel really confident that none of this rubbish will happen here - yeah its sad - i haven't seen the film but am really, really excited - i am just pleased that i'm gonna be able to take my friends along and see what is BOUND to be 20 times better than most of the films that come out of the USA (no disrespect to americans intended)


'forgive my rudeness. i cannot abide useless people'

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Friday, May 6, 2005 8:34 AM

WHOISRIVER


Quote:

Originally posted by frscpe1:
I'm liking the fact that people are getting mad at stuff in the film. To me it shows how deeply these characters and their story have ingrained themselves into our minds, while we might not like certain aspects of the story, we get an emotional response from it, something you won't get with lets say...according to jim (I know, cheap shot).

"Well, other than being shot at by the Electric Mayhem, I'm fantastic."



Oh, it's provoked an extreme emotional response in a small number of people who are trying to directly get Universal to reshoot bits of the movie and change things. I'm not kidding.

'We don't like Joss's vision, so we'll stamp our feet and try to get it changed'.

Needless to say, Universal isn't changing anything. This is Joss's film, Joss's universe, Joss's characters and Joss's story.

Amusingly nobody has complained about the lack of horses, the action etc (the trailer complaints) -- now it's all focused about stupid crap (quite frankly).

It's incredibly funny, it's well written, it's true to the 'verse... All these things, a small number of people are overlooking as they go on a holy crusade to try to get the movie rewritten to their ideal story.

Life can be really shit to you at times, and that was the entire point of Firefly most of the time.

I do wonder if some of the people on their holy mission actually watched the rest of the movie, or Firefly itself.

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Friday, May 6, 2005 8:39 AM

CHRISISALL


Here's an example: When I read sumpin' on the net about a technical flaw in something, I pay attention, it might be relevant to a purchase or whatnot, if I read opinions, I take it with a grain of salt. There's tons of flicks I saw even though there was minor squabblin' about how 'bad' something 'bout it was. In the end I make up my own mind what to shell out bucks at the theatre for. Most smart folks will be like that, too.
The boycott bums? Frack 'em. They don't matter.



They die after the sting, Firefly goes on Chrisisall

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Friday, May 6, 2005 8:50 AM

TALLGRRL


silly rabbits.
I love Firefly, but this is NOT "Firefly". That TV show had the restraints and fingerprints of Network TV all over it.
This is SERENITY. And is even BETTER than Firefly.
It's darker, it's sharper, it has an edge...and a bite. Kind of a nasty bite, actually.
And I love it.
There's a space in my DVD cabinet just waitin'


"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

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Friday, May 6, 2005 12:16 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I viewed Serenity as what might have happened at the end of Firefly season 2 or 3. As we should all know by now, with a Whedon show the situation is fluid.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Friday, May 6, 2005 12:56 PM

TRASK43


The one thing I really hope doesn't come from all this is that anyone starts to change the film. I want to see joss vision and not something that came as a result of a negative reaction. Im sure its to late for movie execs to start changing the film but I cant believe someone has set up a website against the film ( and is it wrong that Im still intrigued enough to want to see the site).

www.summer-glau.com

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Friday, May 6, 2005 1:11 PM

WHOISRIVER


DON'T find the site. For a start, the name of the site (in the address) is itself one of the biggest spoilers of the film.

They have since compared watching Serenity to violent abuse in relationships -- apparently they think it's the same thing. They didn't actually think the movie was crap (I haven't seen anybody say this), they just don't like some of the plot points.

They're campaigning with Universal to get Joss to reshoot the movie, anyway, which would push it back significantly in terms of release date. They think Joss's writing style is what caused Angel and Firefly to be cancelled, too.

It's very amusing.

There's only about 4 people on the official forums who have problems with the film, but they are trying to kick up a storm online to get the story changed -- and they're starting to have an impact with people who haven't seen the movie. It's quite depressing.

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Friday, May 6, 2005 1:17 PM

TRASK43


Thanks for the heads up regarding the spoiler in the name of the site as I may have been tempted to search for it.

I hate it when people get so obssesed with a product that they feel like they own it. At the end the day this is joss' film nobody elses if a group of fans were to get the film changed Id be just as unhappy as if some movie execs decided to change it.

I'll watch the film and if I enjoy it (as Im sure I will) great. If dont I'll still love the series just the same.

www.summer-glau.com

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Friday, May 6, 2005 1:20 PM

SIMONWHO


I'm actually very proud of us Brits because when we had two preview screenings of Browncoats, we kept our mouths shut except for a few threads, carefully marked, where some (but not all) spoilers were leaked.

Flash forward to it being shown in America and look what's happened. Selfish, selfish, selfish behaviour. Absolute toys being thrown out of prams. I grant you, it's a minority but even so, there's no excuse for it. At all.

Do yourselves a favour. Stay here. Avoid spoilers. Look after your knees.

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Friday, May 6, 2005 1:25 PM

REEQUEEN


[this is addressed generally, really]

I've been over the UB today, and in comparison to this board and the OB, it's the one site that has people whining at such a high volume. Probably because it is the "official" Universal board and the bitching cotillion figures they'll get some sort of feedback, and also probably because they realize that a majority of us wouldn't put up with it.

....not that I'd be rude or anything....

And just so everyone knows, I'm speaking as a completely spoiled non-pre-screen viewer. I haven't seen the movie (oh, but I will!), but I've made sure I've managed to pick up every spoilery piece of information available. Because that's the way I am.

Anyway. Useless bunch of semi-sentient cavillers. If it wasn't one thing, they'd be complaining about something else. It's not the message, it's the behaviour.

I'm sorry. Didn't mean to rant quite this much.

If someone is swayed by the moaning to not watch Serenity, that will be that person's loss. It won't be a high number of people, because from what I've seen, the disproportionate majority love, love, love the film, and are much more....sensible (even in fanaticism) in their language.

That's what I've observed, and I still await the movie breathlessly.

"He has a gorm horizon. All gorm that falls past it is lost forever." UserFriendly http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050114

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Friday, May 6, 2005 1:29 PM

AMYEL


I've seen all of this stuff before. You just take out some of the names in Serenity and replace them with "Spike" or "Tara" or "OMG BUFFY/ANGEL 4EVA OR I KEEEEEEL YOU" then it's the same thing. Hell, Joss could probably loan them all a few dozen petitions just so they wouldn't have to write their own.

Joss will not be swayed. And not sure Universal could be either. Since a lot of these people are coming across as completely stalkery and childish, there aren't many who are making any vaild SANE arguments for change.

Everyone has to remember that Joss loves the story more than you do. As in "you" I mean "everybody that exists". His goal is not to fuck over the fans, and he doesn't hate the characters. These characters came from his brain and his heart, and he writes about whatever is personally important to him. People can join in or not, but if a bunch of psycho Browncoats plot together to leave a horse head in his bed.... well, that's ain't gonna win him over either.

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Friday, May 6, 2005 1:44 PM

WHOISRIVER


Universal is not going to reshoot the movie. I can personally vouch for that. Aside from anything else, it's way too far down the line anyway.

The US screenings were designed to be a marketing effort - get browncoats to help talk up the movie.

A vast, vast majority of people loved the film. A small group are throwing their toys out of the pram.

I'm less depressed about it now, but still - I really do wonder what insane troll logic some people have. Serenity is a fantastic film. Yes, it's a real journey, but that's the journey Mr Joss Whedon wanted to take us on.

If you don't like it in the end, you've got the Firefly DVDs. But I'm sure nearly everybody from this site will be blown away.

I should learn not to let the few upset me.

One note of interest: nearly every single person moaning on the Universal Board have only just joined it. And are now battering it with negative posts.

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Friday, May 6, 2005 2:53 PM

MSCKAREN


Quote:

Originally posted by ReeQueen:

And just so everyone knows, I'm speaking as a completely spoiled non-pre-screen viewer. I haven't seen the movie (oh, but I will!), but I've made sure I've managed to pick up every spoilery piece of information available. Because that's the way I am.

(snip)

That's what I've observed, and I still await the movie breathlessly.



Sister! I'm with you! :-)

Did you see the "Open Letter to Shakespeare" in response to the negatives? I thought it was hilarious. That guy took a page right out of Joss' book to put them in their place with wit and humor. If you've seen the movie or are already happily spoiled, check it out!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

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Friday, May 6, 2005 3:48 PM

CAPNRAHN


Is the spoiler the one that has already been revealed?

Which is below - WARNING!!! DO NOT HILITE IF YOU WANT TO BE SPOILER-FREE!!!!

Select to view spoiler:


Wash dies heroically

I hate it when fans think they know better than the author or director of a book/film - if they want to see a 'certin' outcome - they should WRITE/PRODUCE/DIRECT something THEMSELVES!

They shouldn't pee on anothers work because it didn't fit their narrow viewpoint.

Ignorant sods!

Excuse me please - I have issues with 'demanding fans'. Especailly after the furor of the "ignorant fans" when Joss "killed" Tara in Buffy ... morons.

And don't get me talking on how the "fans" hurt the potential of X-Men. Don't get me wrong, Bryan Singer did a good job and it is a good movie - but not up the the par of "The usual Suspects" and "Apt Pupil" that was EXCELLENT work by Singer...

Sigh - diatribe over, thanks for listening!

"I've heard more intelligent sounds coming out of a pair of corduroys" - Herbert Phillip Lovecraft from *Cast A Deadly Spell*

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Friday, May 6, 2005 4:01 PM

MSCKAREN


You guessed it, Capn. But if that's all you know about you still probably don't want to venture over there cause there are several other spoilers in thread titles.

I hope they get over it soon...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

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Saturday, May 7, 2005 1:50 AM

REEQUEEN


msckaren:

Quote:

Did you see the "Open Letter to Shakespeare" in response to the negatives? I thought it was hilarious. That guy took a page right out of Joss' book to put them in their place with wit and humor. If you've seen the movie or are already happily spoiled, check it out!


I surely did read that. Right on point!

I'm sure a lot of authors/creators are rolling in their graves or at least rolling their eyes (except, possibly, Anne Rice)....

"He has a gorm horizon. All gorm that falls past it is lost forever." UserFriendly http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050114

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Saturday, May 7, 2005 4:29 AM

TALLGRRL


Quote:

Originally posted by trask43:
The one thing I really hope doesn't come from all this is that anyone starts to change the film. I want to see joss vision and not something that came as a result of a negative reaction. Im sure its to late for movie execs to start changing the film but I cant believe someone has set up a website against the film ( and is it wrong that Im still intrigued enough to want to see the site).

www.summer-glau.com



Amen. We should want to see Joss's film.
If something doeesn't make you happy, well gee whizz. Poor thing. How nice that every TV show or movie you see or book that you read ends exactly the way you want.
You're not happy with THE WRITER/DIRECTOR'S choice? Go ahead, throw up your little website and winj about it. Apparently you have no change in your life. "Change" is what life is about. When ya get older you'll understand. So go put up your little whiny website.
As someone here wrote: With Joss, the situation is always fluid.
Me? I like it when I can't expect what a writer/director is gonna do. (Anyone here watch "24"? That show is all manner of "don't get too comfy".)
I was lucky to have been able to go to a screening and I'm thinking that REAL fans of Joss's work won't want him to change the film.
When I got in my car to drive home, I sat there and after a minute all I could say was: "Son of a bitch! Wow."
I'm going to see it in September, and in the meanwhile I have a couple of people to "initiate" with my DVD set.



"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

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Saturday, May 7, 2005 4:42 AM

SERGEANTX


Before Firefly, I'd never heard of Joss Whedon, but I remember after Train Job aired, looking for Firefly sites and finding a lot of stuff from people making similar complaints about Buffy. Apparently they didn't like the fact that Joss included REAL change in his story arcs.

That actually got me MORE interested in what he was doing. Tweaking expectations is one of the things he does best, so I'm guessing the vocal minority will be quickly overwhelmed by the fans. I do wish they'd avoided all this by skipping all the test screenings, but it's a little late for druthers.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Saturday, May 7, 2005 5:26 AM

ZOID


Will:

Please tell me Mercutio does not die, as I've heard. That character is the heart and soul of the piece. As to the titular couple:

Select to view spoiler:


Romeo and Juliet die, I know. Couldn't care less. One day, some enterprising Englishman will find that this sort of extinction is the natural way of things, I'd wager...


...But based on our discussions with Bacon regarding the character of Merc, I feel that this would be a very bad twist of the ankle for the theatre-goer, indeed. Trust me on this. I know what sells in the theatre. If you and Bacon are killing off Mercutio, then I say a plague on both your houses!


Faithfully Yours,

Kit

...Ummm, oops! Wrong fansite, sorry. Er, insert something insightful about Serenity, Joss Whedon and fickle fans, here...


Ill-Literately,

zoid

P.S.
I read the 'Open Letter...' take over on the NOB, and it was very good. When I read the first few posts of this thread, I unknowingly came to the same conclusion, regarding how many people -- who prefer their movie entertainments to be filled with puppies and blue skies -- would likewise be in an ill-temper with Shakespeare over his liberal slaying of primary characters. I immediately thought of "Romeo and Juliet" and the 'Christopher Marlowe letter' angle (including providing a new line for the play while not changing Shakespeare's intent to kill off Mercutio). Then I read the excellent "Open Letter to Mr. Shakespeare" ( http://tinyurl.com/7hdya). Think me a plagiarist, if you will.
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Saturday, May 7, 2005 5:43 AM

REEQUEEN


I call it spontaneous simultaneity. A good idea will have its way with the world, so it makes sure more than one person will propagate it.

At least, that's the theory....

"He has a gorm horizon. All gorm that falls past it is lost forever." UserFriendly http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050114

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Saturday, May 7, 2005 7:30 AM

MSCKAREN


I've read and heard about Joss having Shakespeare readings at his house for fun. I wonder if they have barbecue...?

Anyway, I think the influence is obvious and am very happy for it!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

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