GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Ironic Deaths for Firefly Crew

POSTED BY: ZOID
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 12:28
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3859
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Monday, October 25, 2004 5:37 PM

ZOID


Greetings, fellow Browncoats:

Over on the 'How do you see yourself on Serenity' thread, I joined previous commentators from this site in comparing Joss Whedon to William Shakespeare. Specifically, I pointed out that Shakespeare had a decided tendency to kill off his main characters at the precise moment when their lives appeared to be satisfactorily resolving themselves. Id est, just about the time Romeo and Juliet appear to be on the verge of getting a richly deserved life together, a capricious error in timing -- what? 5 minutes or so? Less in some productions? -- makes their story a double-suicide tragedy. Othello, King Lear, Macbeth, Titus Andronicus... My understanding is that JW has pulled similar shenanigans on his series in the past.

So, since JW seems bent on Shakespearean tragedy, here's my complete list of ironic, yet inescapable endings for our BDH's. Some of mine are purely whimsical. The problem with whimsy is that it so closely resembles irony; you, my fellow fans, must decide which of the two I'm being.

Please feel free to add or amend to your liking...

Malcolm Reynolds:
As I said in my 'Future Quotes' series, posted right here on FFFn some time back, Mal lays down his life on a suicide mission at the decisive battle of the Second War of Independence. The ironical bit: He rediscovers his faith in God and his joie de vivre in the face of impossible odds, as he exhibited at the first Battle of Serenity Valley. In the penultimate episode of the 7-year series, he dies in battle, as he should have in the first War.

Zoe:
Dies in childbirth, leaving Wash a single parent of a child he resisted having in the first place. If he'd won that battle with Zoe, she'd never have died in childbirth.

Inara:
Post mortem reveals cause of death is Toxic Shock Syndrome (of type S. aureus).

Wash:
Using the same 'dead-stick' maneuver he exhibited in "War Stories", Wash flies a shuttle into the bridge section of an Alliance cruiser, allowing Serenity and her crew to escape.

Kaylee:
Develops sudden allergic reaction to strawberries and dies of asphyxiation due to swelling in her throat, face and fingers. Recollecting her introduction in OoG, I was going to have her choke to death on something else, but it's a family show...

Jayne:
How else? Playing with his gun. Dies of apparent heart attack while in his bunk. ("This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun." Animal Mother, "Full Metal Jacket")

Book:
Stricken by a sudden grand mal seizure, he is unable to speak, except with his eyes, by which means he attempts to convey to Mal his secret past of remorse and personal redemption, as he lays dying. As a result, JW keeps his fans from ever knowing the full extent of the Shepherd's mysterious past.

Simon:
While treating seriously wounded patients in battlefield triage, shuns the use of surgical gloves (because the only ones available are blue). A slip of the scalpel slices his skin as he is working on a patient who is afflicted with 'Rapid Onset Latent Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome', a bioweapon unleashed on Browncoat positions by the Alliance/BlueSun. He closes his eyes for a much-deserved rest in the makeshift doctors' lounge after his 20-hour shift in the MASH OR, and never reawakens.

River:
Voluntarily plugs her mind into the cybernetic interface of the strategic supercomputer that the Alliance/BlueSun had designed to defeat all opposition to their hegemony. She uses this system to defeat the Alliance/BlueSun's superior forces; but, her human body is forfeit.

Serenity:
Decommissioned after the Second War of Independence (WoI 2), her engines removed, she is on permanent display in a latter-day version of the Smithsonian.

Okay, that was deeply depressing...


Morbidly,

zoid

P.S.
I'm surprised no one ever asked me what became of River at the end of 'Future Quotes'; why she was so important that Book would make her the central figure of his historical account of WoI 2; or why I only referred to her as 'River' -- never 'Ms. Tam', 'President Tam' or such -- throughout the series, even when she herself was cited for the last quote. This was it. Maybe I'm too 'convoluted' for my own good; but, I thought I was being too obvious about her profound transformation. Apparently not.
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 178 days, 1 hours, 53 minutes, and 42 seconds left until The BDM!

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Monday, October 25, 2004 5:44 PM

DARKJESTER


Quote:

'Rapid Onset Latent Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome'

OK, let me see if I have this right... Simon dies from ROLAIdS?

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Monday, October 25, 2004 5:58 PM

ZOID



DarkJester wrote:
Quote:

... Simon dies from ROLAIdS?

I'm a sick bastard.


v/r,
zed

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Monday, October 25, 2004 6:29 PM

EBONEZER


At least Wash dies valiently. But their poor kid, now everyone's dead but him/her.

Anyhoo, I see Inara's death more akin to aging 50 years in 30 seconds when she see's the painting of herself in the attic...

And even if Book dies without telling the crew what he's big secret really is...they can still go through his stuff and look at the ID card.

-----------------------------------

Four out of five dentists reccomend calling Ebo a girl.

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Monday, October 25, 2004 6:36 PM

ZOID



ebonezer wrote:
Quote:

At least Wash dies valiently. But their poor kid, now everyone's dead but him/her.

How did you know the kid was a him/her?! (Actually, a her/him, but everything's relative according to frame of reference)

You must be some kind of psychic (assassin)...


v/r,
zed

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Monday, October 25, 2004 6:48 PM

EBONEZER


Yes. I'm a telepathic assasin. I've had congress with the devil, and work for a secret, undergroud diivsion of Blue Sun. Waste Management is the polite term.


-----------------------------------

Four out of five dentists reccomend calling Ebo a girl.

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Monday, October 25, 2004 9:51 PM

THEREALME


Heh, heh, heh.

That Ebo! Always joking.


< EBO! That was all supposed to be secret! >


The Real Me

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:28 AM

MAUGWAI


At the risk of sounding like a complete jackass, I have to protest that none of those deaths is truly ironic. They're all very creative and interesting, but not quite in line with the definition of irony.

Every year middle school teachers around the country play the Alanis Morrisette song "Ironic" as a lesson in irony, but none of the things that happen in that song are actually ironic, which is in intself kind of ironic. That tells me that our society does not truly understand the cocept. I can see that, since it a very complicated idea.

The definition I always give my students is this: "When something happens that is the opposite of what is expected." But even that doesn't entirely cover it.

In order to be fully ironic, for instance, Jayne would give his live to save Simon and River from the Blue Hands. Mal would die destroying his ship in a mission to protect the Alliance from rebels.

This lesson brought to you by a bored English teacher during her planning period.



"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:49 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


You know this thread is mrobid and downright unsettlin'.

Oh, Zoid started it. That explains everything.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Meet Up:
http://firefly.meetup.com/9/boards/


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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:51 AM

ZOID


maugwai:

For me, the oft-abused term 'irony' may be defined as the best-laid plans gang aft agley, and in such a way as to point out the foolishness of the planner. For instance, back in 2000 anno Domini, when the gasoline prices in my area rose to $2.00 per gallon, I got my motorcycle out of mothballs and drove the 112 miles roundtrip to my place of work, in order to save money. This worked for five weeks, until one predawn morning I was t-boned by a driver who was running a little late for work and never saw me. $90,000 later ($30K of which was unpaid by insurance), I will walk with a limp for the rest of my life (left knee shattered with no surviving ligaments), and my dominant right hand sits on my wrist at an odd and painful angle. You see, it was a Friday, and by the time they got around to operating on me that afternoon, there was no hand specialist available; instead, a foot surgeon repaired my wrist. By the time the cast came off and they reckoned their mistake, the soft tissue regrowth made a complete and correct repair impossible.

So, not only did I not save any money, I went bankrupt and was left physically the worse for wear. I'd call that ironic, at least by my definition.

I may not be an English teacher, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I'm fine now; but, I do miss the lost opportunity to play ball with my boy. ...And of course my fantasy career as a violin-playing action hero.

P.P.S.
B's 'neez: You were in Congress?
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 177 days, 14 hours, 21 minutes, and 25 seconds left until The BDM!

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:09 AM

STIZO


Quote:

Yes. I'm a telepathic assassin. I've had congress with the devil, and work for a secret, underground division of Blue Sun. Waste Management is the polite term.

She's in congress?!

Sorry Ebo, couldn't resist.
Anyway, Maugwai is right that none of these qualify as ironic, but then again, neither do the two examples she gives either (irony is a wholly different idea than "When something happens that is the opposite of what is expected."). So I say: "Who cares?" This isn't English class; it's an internet message board. *sheesh*

Back to Zoid’s original idea, this brings up an interesting point. My guess is that in the BDM we might see the death of one of our beloved nine. This makes me wonder how Joss might go about it…
Oh, and Zoid, the Jayne one made me bust out laughing right in the middle of class...thanks,lol

I can hear R. Lee Ermey's voice...
This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun.

----------------------------------------------
Conquering the galaxy with terrifying space monkeys, one ship at a time...

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:08 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM


For any of them, choking to death on something.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 7:07 AM

BOOKSWORD


This is sick !

Here let me have a go...

Captain Mal
Is mouthing off at Shepard at his belief of a God, accidently steps on prayer beads goes up and comes down on his neck.

Ow.

God - 2 Mal - 0

Jayne
Gets into an argument with Vera about him looking at other guns, Vera wins.

Zoe
For some strange reason a skinny white kid calling himself Conner sneaks up behind her and hits her **very** hard

Wash
One terrible day his toy dinosaurs decide to fight for their freedom and launch themselves at him. Bloody, messy and not very pretty.

Simon
Simon uses a ten letter word on an outer core planet in the hearing range of some heavily armed people. He sounds snotty and condencending and they shoot him just in case he insulted their fathers. Whomever that may be

River
Goes on yet another walkabout and admires what looks like long grass on the Serenity. Turns out to be the ships wiring, end result.

Krispy fried Prodigy.

Inara
Highly paying client with exotic tastes. Ok lets say freaky tastes and an unrealible breathing tube. Nuff said.

Kaylee
No force in the verse can stop her. Unless its another random shooting in her general direction. With more and bigger guns. After dying the fates explain its nothing personal but her cheerfulness was freaking them out a bit.

Shepard Book
' I have something to tell ' he says to the screen and as we hold our breath in anticipation... the final ever episode ends leaving us wondering what his secret is and if he survived the armies of hell storming that really long alley.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 7:59 AM

ZOID


Booksword:

That's the spirit! Well-played!

BTW, is that 'Book's word' or 'Book sword'. Just wonderin'...


v/r,
zed

P.S.
I especially enjoyed Simon's and Kaylee's. Priceless! Simon's put me mind of a marginally off-color joke, which may be altered to fit:

Q: What is a Rim world virgin?
A: A girl who can outrun all of her brothers.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:23 AM

DELIA


Zoid,

What a morbid and creepifying topic. I will of course have to offer suggestions.

How about if I just suggest that the entire crew goes when River does decide to holler till their ears bleed? Or when one of Kaylee's improvised repairs goes awry and ship blows up? Or when Wash makes a massive piloting error?

On the individul manner, how about if Niska regroups, rounds up more interchangable henchmen, tracks down Serenity, and puts Mal through the engines? Or if Simon dies trying to protect Jayne from River's latest psychotic episode? Or if Zoe is killed in battle because her slinky dress makes it hard to move fast enough?

I'm not entirely certain all (any?) of these count as ironic, but they're kinda fun, in a sick, depressing sort of way.


___________________________________________
Angel: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
Hamilton: Yeah, but we won't care.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:41 AM

ZOID



Delia:

Good to hear from you again. I do so miss the old days...

Hmmm, apparently, none of us truly knows what the actual definition of 'irony' is, or else we are misapplying the concept. Personally, I find it highly ironic that the general population is thus unfamiliar with irony. Don't you?

Still, I also specified that 'whimsical' was in play, so yours are good examples, regardless.

Don't. Be. A. Stranger! Let us hear from you more often, pretty please. Remember: All books and no play makes Deels a dull girl...


Fondly,

zoid

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:50 AM

ZARK1976


Jayne dies while trying to prove that none of his weapons can penetrate Serenity's hull, because a hole is punched through the bulkhead he is standing near, and the pressure differential pulls him out. since it is such a small hole he hits it with his rump and is pulled inside out through his tailpipe.

Wash accidentally forgets that as a practical joke he disconnected the stick on the shuttle and crashes into a mountain, trying to figure out the whole time where he put the piece he pulled out.





"Could be he's harboring some resentment at us for putting his man through our engine."

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:51 AM

MALICIOUS


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:

Maybe I'm too 'convoluted' for my own good




(sheepish grin) Ummmmm, you remembered that? Sorry!!

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:04 AM

MAUGWAI


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
So, not only did I not save any money, I went bankrupt and was left physically the worse for wear. I'd call that ironic, at least by my definition.



Completely agree. That is ironic, and also crappy. But it's not ironic because it's crappy. It's ironic because the way you were trying to save money is what ended up costing you money. Take Oedipus, the king of all that is ironic. The fact that he was trying to avoid marrying his mother and killing his father is what ended up causing him to do it. For instance, Wash left the widowed father of a child he never wanted is slightly ironic, but Zoe dying in childbirth is not. Usually the very thing you try to avoid leads to your downfall.

I am enjoying this morbid topic quite a bit and am in full support of your post, but I still must point out that a crappy situation is not necessarily ironic - just crappy. And your situation is certainly both.

[ed- Simon dying to protect Jayne from River would definitely be ironic.]

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:24 AM

GUILDSISTER


Morbid and creepifying... yummy!

Mal: Is assassinated (shot in the gut) by rebel insurgents after he was just inaugerated as leader of the Alliance.

Zoe: After her successful revival of old Earth-that-was "Martha Stewart's Living", Zoe chokes to death on toxic fumes from her potpourri put there by her resentful child who wanted to be raised on an outlaw ship.

Wash: On the ground, enjoying watching a ship outmaneuver a Reaver ship when the pursued ship goes to full burn in atmo and the rocketwash (a pun, get it??) incinerates him.

Book: Lightning bolt. Strange, no storms were in the vicinity.

Kaylee: A sheep walking on its hind legs causes her frilly dress to catch in a moving engine part.

Simon: Jayne kills Simon on his own operating table. Really just an 'oops'.

River: Jayne kills her with his brain.

And Jayne...

old age.



Guildsister

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:29 AM

ZOID



Mmmm- alicious:

I actually like being thought of as 'convoluted', so, no apologies necessary.

I trust you are well, and having a good day; and there's not a trace of convolution in that sentiment.


Twisting into the cul-de-sac,

zoid

P.S.
Hee-hee!

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:39 AM

ZOID



Guildsister:

'Plot bunnies', indeed. 'Win' and 'place' for Book and Kaylee (tie) and 'show' for Wash. One presumes Inara tripped out of the gate?


Racily,

zoid

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:47 AM

GUILDSISTER


Quote:

One presumes Inara tripped out of the gate?


Inara?!

Guildsister smacks forehead in dismay. Inara, the One That Got Away...

"Guildsister" forgets about Inara--has its own kind of irony there ;-)

Inara--obviously after committing to vows of chastity, a hormonal overload kills her.

Guildsister

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:12 AM

ZOID



maugwai wrote:
Quote:

...That is ironic, and also crappy. But it's not ironic because it's crappy...

Agreed. Good fortune may likewise be ironic. I'll not bore you with how I met the love of my life, my wife, Kayley (no, seriously).

However, I also don't consider the sequence of events 'crappy'. That's just how it worked out. Ironic, yes. Crappy, no. I have a somewhat perverse sense of humor (ask anyone here), and if this had happened to someone else, I could scarcely find it amusing. Since it happened to me, on the other hand, I find it immensely entertaining and instructive to reflect upon. As I said, I'm ambulatory and productively employed; although I do occasionally miss the 'chasing the ball' boyish things middle-aged men wind up in the ER over.

My life is a Shakespearean comedy, thus far, not a tragedy. Not accurately a comedy 'of errors', but of reasonably competent planning meeting Divinely-guided chaos in the most critical way, at the most crucial split second... As your friend and mine, Mal's dog Jayne would say, "Hi-larious".


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 177 days, 9 hours, 1 minutes, and 32 seconds left until The BDM!

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:30 PM

RADEGUND


Quote:

Originally posted by Guildsister:
And Jayne...

old age.

Guildsister



Now that one's great!

Here's my try. They aren't ironic, just amusing.

Kaylee: Someone finally does duct-tape her mouth and toss her in the hold for a month.

Inara: Her shuttle breaks down mid-flight because the incense she burns interferes with the circuitry.

Zoe: Drowns in a bioluminescent lake because she never learned to swim in one.

Wash: Catches a disease from Zoe after she becomes all corpsified and gross.

Jayne: Returns to the crappy town where he's a hero, only to have the rebuilt statue fall on his head.

Book: Accidentally crushed beneath the weight-lifting bar when Jayne gets distracted.

River: Dies after eating the contents of a can of something from which the label -- including the food's expiration date -- had been removed.

Mal and Simon: They die at the same time, having finally killed one another -- awake, facing each other, and armed.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 3:30 PM

MALICIOUS


Radegund!

Those are excellent! Tres funny.

And now, because that is how I am, I am turning this post into something about me:

I noticed from your profile that you joined this wonderful site in 2002 on November the 19th. The irony there is that that is MY BIRTHDAY, PEOPLE!! 24 more shopping days left! (Note: November 18th is Birthday Eve or Hallowed Birthday Eve in Canada and Guam)

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:03 PM

DIETCOKE


Quote:

Originally posted by Booksword:
This is sick !

Here let me have a go...

Captain Mal
Is mouthing off at Shepard at his belief of a God, accidently steps on prayer beads goes up and comes down on his neck.

Ow.

God - 2 Mal - 0

Jayne
Gets into an argument with Vera about him looking at other guns, Vera wins.

Zoe
For some strange reason a skinny white kid calling himself Conner sneaks up behind her and hits her **very** hard

Wash
One terrible day his toy dinosaurs decide to fight for their freedom and launch themselves at him. Bloody, messy and not very pretty.

Simon
Simon uses a ten letter word on an outer core planet in the hearing range of some heavily armed people. He sounds snotty and condencending and they shoot him just in case he insulted their fathers. Whomever that may be

River
Goes on yet another walkabout and admires what looks like long grass on the Serenity. Turns out to be the ships wiring, end result.

Krispy fried Prodigy.

Inara
Highly paying client with exotic tastes. Ok lets say freaky tastes and an unrealible breathing tube. Nuff said.

Kaylee
No force in the verse can stop her. Unless its another random shooting in her general direction. With more and bigger guns. After dying the fates explain its nothing personal but her cheerfulness was freaking them out a bit.

Shepard Book
' I have something to tell ' he says to the screen and as we hold our breath in anticipation... the final ever episode ends leaving us wondering what his secret is and if he survived the armies of hell storming that really long alley.
[/QUOTE

You and Zoid are way to funny! Should be a crime.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:32 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by maugwai:
For instance, Wash left the widowed father of a child he never wanted is slightly ironic, but Zoe dying in childbirth is not. Usually the very thing you try to avoid leads to your downfall.


Okay. I'm still trying to get a handle on this irony thing...

So if Wash died while Zoe was giving birth (best guess, she strangled him), would that be ironic?



There are three kinds of people: fighters, lovers, and screamers.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:59 PM

JCPRICE


Okay, I'm getting confused on this whole irony thing too, so I've consulted the highest (publicly available) authority ...

i·ro·ny

NOUN:
pl. i·ro·nies

The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit 1.

Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: "Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated" (Richard Kain).
An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.
Dramatic irony.
Socratic irony.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETYMOLOGY:
French ironie, from Old French, from Latin rna, from Greek eirneia, feigned ignorance, from eirn, dissembler, probably from eirein, to say; see wer- 5 in Indo-European roots
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/irony

So, now we are all experts in irony ...

jason

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:35 PM

BARNEYT


Quote:

Originally posted by jcprice:
Okay, I'm getting confused on this whole irony thing too, so I've consulted the highest (publicly available) authority ...

i·ro·ny

NOUN:
pl. i·ro·nies

The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit 1.

Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: "Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated" (Richard Kain).
An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.
Dramatic irony.
Socratic irony.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETYMOLOGY:
French ironie, from Old French, from Latin rna, from Greek eirneia, feigned ignorance, from eirn, dissembler, probably from eirein, to say; see wer- 5 in Indo-European roots
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/irony

So, now we are all experts in irony ...

jason



That definition looks familiar! Do you have a copy of the American Heritage Dictionary, or did you go to Bartleby.com, like I always do!


---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 2:22 AM

FIREFLEW


The two stock examples of irony include a lifeguard drowning or a cardiovascular surgeon dying of heart disease.


___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 2:23 AM

FIREFLEW


The two stock examples of irony include a lifeguard drowning or a cardiovascular surgeon dying of heart disease.



___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:54 AM

ZOID


Heellloo, Irony fans!

And what a great day for a game of Irony it is, too!

I, for one, am a proponent for a broader definition of irony, rather than a narrower one. My reasoning: Words have no intrinsic meaning, only the meaning we -- the users of such language -- assign to them. At their fundamental level, words are merely a sequence of arbitrary sounds or written symbols, which we agree convey a (more or less) specific meaning.

For example, for the longest time dictionaries omitted entries for the colloquial word 'ain't', because as everybody knows, 'ain't' ain't a word. Eventually, however, dictionaries did include such words, because their use became so common as to make them 'correct', irregardless of the complaints of linguistic purists. (NB: Did you see what I did there? Until very recently, 'irregardless' was an incorrect usage of the word 'regardless', constituting a double negative within the same word; its usage is still a pet peeve of mine. Now, you'll find 'irregardless' in many dictionaries, without even a notation that it's a bastardization (also a 'good word', and precise for my intent in this context) ).

My favorite free online dictionary, Merriam-Webster, gives the following definition for 'irregardless', which not only underscores that the word is 'nonstandard', but also underscores that it must be considered an acceptable word because it is regularly used and conveys meaning between its users:

One entry found for irregardless.
Main Entry: ir·re·gard·less
Pronunciation: "ir-i-'gärd-l&s
Function: adverb
Etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless
nonstandard : REGARDLESS
usage Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

Here is Merriam-Webster's definition of 'irony', which I agree conveys the meaning I intend, when I use the sounds and symbols that constitute the word:

Main Entry: iro·ny
Pronunciation: 'I-r&-nE also 'I(-&)r-nE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -nies
Etymology: Latin ironia, from Greek eirOnia, from eirOn dissembler
1 : a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning -- called also Socratic irony (NB: AB uses this technique to great effect in his political posts over on the OB, to the great consternation of his opposing 'master debaters')
2 a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c : an ironic expression or utterance
3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play -- called also dramatic irony, tragic irony
synonym see WIT

How much of that definition is a bastardization of the original meaning of the term 'irony', I cannot say. Perhaps at some point, 'sardonic' and 'ironic' and any number of other concepts like 'incongruous' got clumped together within common usage. Regardless, I feel that the current broader definition of 'irony' is correct, simply because we may commonly agree on its meaning...


Definitively,

zoid

P.S.
You can use Merriam-Webster's free online dictionary and thesaurus at: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 176 days, 13 hours, 29 minutes, and 35 seconds left until The BDM!

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:50 AM

ZOID



SoupCatcher wrote:
Quote:

...So if Wash died while Zoe was giving birth (best guess, she strangled him), would that be ironic?

Perhaps, but, only to posters on this particular thread, I think. I originally suggested that -- to me -- Zoe dying in childbirth would be ironic, since she so desperately wants a child, wants "to meet that child" as she told Wash in HoG. If she dies in childbirth, she would never get that 'heart's desire' to behold and nurture their child, while in the very act of fulfilling that stated goal. It would be doubly ironic (tragic irony) because Wash doesn't want a child, only for Zoe and him to be together, alone (he states this on a number of occasions throughout the series). Under the circumstance, he would gain the unwanted child and lose his heart's desire, Zoe, in one fell swoop. By contrast, if Wash were the one desperate to have a child and Zoe died giving him one, that would not be ironic, only tragic.

Since that post, we have been debating the ironic quality of such deaths, and exploring the definition of irony itself. As such, if JW were to kill off Wash by the means you suggested, it would be high irony indeed, but probably lost on everyone except the 10 or so persons who have posted on this thread.

But you are correct -- IMO -- that it would be ironic to us.


Respectfully,

zoid

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:26 PM

DELIA


Zoid,

It ain't books, honey, it's baseball. I'm a Sox fan, and I'm behind in almost everything schoolwise now, 'cause I'm spending my evenings watching games (sometimes, I'm spending my class time watching games go by on espn.com, because the game starts before the class ends). When it's over, I'll probably be about more. (Of course, right now I'm multitasking, because if I try to just watch the game (it's the bottom of the 8th in game 4) I get tied in knots.

I miss the old days, too. Seems odd to be nolstalgic for, well, April.

Delia




___________________________________________
Angel: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
Hamilton: Yeah, but we won't care.

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 7:58 PM

ZOID


Delia:

I presume this message finds you on the morning after the Red Sox historic World Series sweep, properly hung over. Congratulations to all the long-suffering baseball fans of the Sox, and to Bostonians in particular. In a season that saw many scribes and historians of the sport acclaim Barry Bonds the greatest player the sport has ever seen, the Boston franchise has likewise finally put paid to the legend of the Bambino.

Have a great day, in a brave new world!


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
No disrespect to the Babe intended. He will always be remembered as the first player to so totally dominate the sport, like a god among mere mortals. And I ain't talkin' strictly home runs either; take a look at the details sometime... In the meantime, enjoy Barry while he's still playing. A player of his or the Babe's caliber only comes along once every 80 years or so.

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Thursday, October 28, 2004 7:34 AM

DELIA


Zoid,

Celebrating, yes, hung over, not so much (not drinking inhibits the ability to be hung over). But I am estatically happy, and I can stop staying up till midnight watching baseball and start staying up past midnight studying. Which is actually probably not an improvement.

Ah, well.

Delia

___________________________________________
Angel: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
Hamilton: Yeah, but we won't care.

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Wednesday, December 29, 2004 12:28 PM

BOOKSWORD


Quote:

Originally posted by Delia:
Zoid,






Booksword:

That's the spirit! Well-played!

BTW, is that 'Book's word' or 'Book sword'. Just wonderin'...



Its Books Word, I really got to fix that Zoid. By the by loved the joke!!! Laughed so hard considered getting daipers.

___________________________________________
Angel: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
Hamilton: Yeah, but we won't care.


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