GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Watched the pilot again a couple nights ago... what...how...?

POSTED BY: CAPTAINCRUNCH
UPDATED: Thursday, June 6, 2019 17:37
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Sunday, June 2, 2019 10:27 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


It's been ages since watching... felt like a good time to see again... actually made some notes, thought I'd post a few here to see if anyone can answer some of the questions that popped up. I feel like I knew the answers at one time but memory rarely improves.

1. Biggest one - and one I'm pretty certain I had to know - we cut from Mal seeing the bad guys landing in Serenity Valley and Bendis getting shot, to the gang doing a salvage with the text "6 years later" over the top. So, what happened in those 6 years?!? Jail? That doesn't seem long enough a spell for being the enemy. Was their some kind of general declaration of suspension of war crimes because ... ? They needed a larger work force? Season 3 flashback?

2. Wash and his dinos - was there ever a backstory for his dino obsession? It seemed less humorous and more of just a strange idea seeing it this time.

3. The Cry Baby. It occurs to me now that they must send that out before each salvage, and far enough away to make it a decent misdirection.

4. I think it's before Mal notices the imprint on the goods... just when they get back to the ship he gets all dark after Jayne says, "anyone you walk away from, I call that a win!" Where was his mind? Why the dark face?

5. Refuge metaphors galore. Was Whedon tapping humanities' common sense of suffering and doom? "Serenity" and "The Sky" as peaceful, safe refuge? You know he's a bit of a mad scientist and psychology is a bit of a mad science.

6. I thought Eavesdown Docks might have an interesting or telling source name. Didn't find anything, but I did find a nice overhead graphic of the docks from here:

https://firefly.fandom.com/wiki/Eavesdown_Docks



7. I will never warm to Simon. But... and one of the things I liked about the show and the crew is that THAT'S so like life. Your work place, your family, your forum there will always be someone that you don't care for but have to get along with.

8. Mal's "she's a whore" comment never sounds right, always sounds forced - out of character.

9. Why did Inara say she was slipping? Was that a set-up for... eventually leaving the profession at the end/beginning of season ?

10. Ok, this should be easy - where was Simon taking River? Just don't recall.

11. Book enters Inara's room and she's semi-nude and she says, "I was expecting you." Huh? Why would she want to make him so uncomfortable or even possibly offend a Shepard? Maybe it's a misread, but that also seems a bit out of character.

12. I am starting to think the center of the ep is Kaylee. She doesn't get the most or the biggest scenes, but when she is shot the whole story arc changes - everyone is strongly self-motivated from that action.

13. Love Jayne's quick response to Dobson's threat, "Gee, never been in trouble with the law before."

There's some others but those mainly - cheers for any suggestions/answers/input.

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Sunday, June 2, 2019 11:53 AM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:


11. Book enters Inara's room and she's semi-nude and she says, "I was expecting you." Huh? Why would she want to make him so uncomfortable or even possibly offend a Shepard? Maybe it's a misread, but that also seems a bit out of character.



One way or the other, she knew he'd show up... for the thumpin'... or the bangin'...or both. I imagine religious leaders wouldn't have changed much.

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Sunday, June 2, 2019 3:58 PM

MOOSE


WTF?!?! Is this an actual Firefly discussion thread? Here? Whoa.

After the war, I’d say the bulk of the Independent forces were released to go back home. Why expend your own resources housing and feeding a defeated army when you can send them home and let the use up their own. I’m no Civil War historian, but I’m pretty sure that’s how the Union handled the defeated Confederates.

I took Mal’s “dark” mood was a way to show he was still haunted by the war. He sure didn’t feel like a winner.

Mal’s “whore” line seemed to be an easy way to simply explain what a Companion is for the audience.

I don’t think Simon ever said if he actually had a full plan of what to do, I think he was focused on getting River away from the Academy.


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Sunday, June 2, 2019 11:01 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

11. Book enters Inara's room and she's semi-nude and she says, "I was expecting you." Huh? Why would she want to make him so uncomfortable or even possibly offend a Shepard? Maybe it's a misread, but that also seems a bit out of character.



One way or the other, she knew he'd show up... for the thumpin'... or the bangin'...or both. I imagine religious leaders wouldn't have changed much.



Bad Inara!

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Sunday, June 2, 2019 11:17 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
WTF?!?! Is this an actual Firefly discussion thread? Here? Whoa.



Ha! I know!

Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
After the war, I’d say the bulk of the Independent forces were released to go back home. Why expend your own resources housing and feeding a defeated army when you can send them home and let the use up their own. I’m no Civil War historian, but I’m pretty sure that’s how the Union handled the defeated Confederates.



That was my guess in this case as well. But still! So what was he doing for 6 years?? Has to be a tale to tell. He was up to something. Maybe he tried legit ways to earn a living and they kept failing? Maybe Independents were tagged some how and it made it impossible to earn an honest wage so he felt forced to pirate? Maybe "war reparations" hit him hard? "That's what Governments are for. Get in a man's way."

Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
I took Mal’s “dark” mood was a way to show he was still haunted by the war. He sure didn’t feel like a winner.



Yup = he's scraping by feeling like a scavenger. Having your feelings line-up with Jayne's can be a sign they aren't in the right place.

Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
Mal’s “whore” line seemed to be an easy way to simply explain what a Companion is for the audience.



Hate to say it, but it might be to show that Mal's a bit of a hayseed.

Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
I don’t think Simon ever said if he actually had a full plan of what to do, I think he was focused on getting River away from the Academy.



Well, at least I didn't forget something important. I do feel like Mr. "I'm very Smart," had to have a plan of some kind. I smell season 2.

Thanks for your thoughts, Moose!

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Monday, June 3, 2019 7:51 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
I don’t think Simon ever said if he actually had a full plan of what to do, I think he was focused on getting River away from the Academy.



Well, at least I didn't forget something important. I do feel like Mr. "I'm very Smart," had to have a plan of some kind. I smell season 2.

Simon's plan was to travel to Beaumonde and join Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF). That is one of many reasons why he quit the ship when it arrived at Beaumonde in the movie.

Since the places that Serenity visits and MSF serve are very similar, MSF paid to rebuild Serenity after the crash and then chartered the ship for its medical mission. That is why Simon was still on the crew at the end of the movie. He is now working for MSF as a doctor.

Neither Simon nor Mal have control over where MSF might politely ask them to go next. They don’t know that it is River, the new pilot, who makes the choice and secretly asks MSF to relay the request to Mal.

River has important connections in Beaumonde and MSF that she is not talking about with the crew. She has a mission just like Simon, but it is definitely not to heal the sick. I wonder what she is doing and why? Maybe the comic books will eventually get there, but for now the stories are all prior to the movie.

https://getcomics.info/?s=firefly
www.msf.org/work-msf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Firefly_planets_and_moons#Beaumo
nde


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 3, 2019 8:17 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
I don’t think Simon ever said if he actually had a full plan of what to do, I think he was focused on getting River away from the Academy.



Well, at least I didn't forget something important. I do feel like Mr. "I'm very Smart," had to have a plan of some kind. I smell season 2.

Simon's plan was to travel to Beaumonde and join Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF). That is one of many reasons why he quit the ship when it arrived at Beaumonde in the movie.

Since the places that Serenity visits and MSF serve are very similar, MSF paid to rebuild Serenity after the crash and then chartered the ship for its medical mission. That is why Simon was still on the crew at the end of the movie. He is now working for MSF as a doctor.

Neither Simon nor Mal have control over where MSF might politely ask them to go next. They don’t know that it is River, the new pilot, who makes the choice and secretly asks MSF to relay the request to Mal.

River has important connections in Beaumonde and MSF that she is not talking about with the crew. She has a mission just like Simon, but it is definitely not to heal the sick. I wonder what she is doing and why? Maybe the comic books will eventually get there, but for now the stories are all prior to the movie.

https://getcomics.info/?s=firefly
www.msf.org/work-msf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Firefly_planets_and_moons#Beaumo
nde


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Thanks second. "Unificators" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, does it?
I've been trying to stay on top of any comics but missed most of these - naturally. 2019??? Looking forward to reading.
I happen to have a working relationship with MSF in a charitable capacity. Me and Simon - never would have guessed. MSF and Simon, makes sense, but not River. She's definitely not in these stories to help the injured. More like do the injuring. Bad people of course. Wonder if her training included de-sensitizing to violence to any human...? Ends justify the means? Can't have compassion get in the way of a job.

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Monday, June 3, 2019 8:41 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
I don’t think Simon ever said if he actually had a full plan of what to do, I think he was focused on getting River away from the Academy.



Well, at least I didn't forget something important. I do feel like Mr. "I'm very Smart," had to have a plan of some kind. I smell season 2.

Simon's plan was to travel to Beaumonde and join Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF). That is one of many reasons why he quit the ship when it arrived at Beaumonde in the movie.

Since the places that Serenity visits and MSF serve are very similar, MSF paid to rebuild Serenity after the crash and then chartered the ship for its medical mission. That is why Simon was still on the crew at the end of the movie. He is now working for MSF as a doctor.

Neither Simon nor Mal have control over where MSF might politely ask them to go next. They don’t know that it is River, the new pilot, who makes the choice and secretly asks MSF to relay the request to Mal.

River has important connections in Beaumonde and MSF that she is not talking about with the crew. She has a mission just like Simon, but it is definitely not to heal the sick. I wonder what she is doing and why? Maybe the comic books will eventually get there, but for now the stories are all prior to the movie.

https://getcomics.info/?s=firefly
www.msf.org/work-msf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Firefly_planets_and_moons#Beaumo
nde


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



You're ok with their read online web site?
https://readcomicsonline.ru/comic/firefly-2018/6

I think I'm going to pass.

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Monday, June 3, 2019 9:05 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

You're ok with their read online web site?
https://readcomicsonline.ru/comic/firefly-2018/6

I think I'm going to pass.

I am okay with the Russians. But you could go to New Zealand, via the Mega Link at https://getcomics.info/other-comics/firefly-6-2019/

It takes you to https://mega.nz in New Zealand.

But then you need a comic book reader: https://fileinfo.com/extension/cbr

I'm using CDisplay Ex

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 3, 2019 9:31 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

MSF and Simon, makes sense, but not River. She's definitely not in these stories to help the injured. More like do the injuring. Bad people of course. Wonder if her training included de-sensitizing to violence to any human...? Ends justify the means? Can't have compassion get in the way of a job.

I've got a fan theory: It is Mal who has been de-sensitizing to violence, not River. When Mal's mad, he can't stop himself from killing. In the final episode, it is Mal (and Inara!) who are pleased to leave Jubal Early drifting in space to die when his air tanks are empty. Jubal Early survives in the comics because, I imagine, that was River's cold plan to convince hot-headed Mal that Early would die. (River programmed Early's spaceship to wait for Serenity to leave and only then go rescue Early. He now owes River a favor.)

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, June 4, 2019 9:38 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Thanks second - downloaded, looking forward to reading!

I don't suppose you know of a link for a timeline for all the comic material? Not when they were released but Titles and where they fit in the 'Verse chronology?

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Tuesday, June 4, 2019 9:43 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

MSF and Simon, makes sense, but not River. She's definitely not in these stories to help the injured. More like do the injuring. Bad people of course. Wonder if her training included de-sensitizing to violence to any human...? Ends justify the means? Can't have compassion get in the way of a job.

I've got a fan theory: It is Mal who has been de-sensitizing to violence, not River. When Mal's mad, he can't stop himself from killing. In the final episode, it is Mal (and Inara!) who are pleased to leave Jubal Early drifting in space to die when his air tanks are empty. Jubal Early survives in the comics because, I imagine, that was River's cold plan to convince hot-headed Mal that Early would die. (River programmed Early's spaceship to wait for Serenity to leave and only then go rescue Early. He now owes River a favor.)




Certainly the war desensitized Mal to killing and violence. As a male human who has murder in their tool kit, once you commit that ultimate crime it's just gets easier to overcome normal moral objections - the thrill addiction is also there tempting you whether you want it or not. We're a mess of tangled up not-very-well-written code in gradually decaying hardware, rarely in total control of ourselves no matter what we may think.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2019 1:02 PM

OLDGUY

What Would Mal do ?


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
WTF?!?! Is this an actual Firefly discussion thread? Here? Whoa.

After the war, I’d say the bulk of the Independent forces were released to go back home. Why expend your own resources housing and feeding a defeated army when you can send them home and let the use up their own. I’m no Civil War historian, but I’m pretty sure that’s how the Union handled the defeated Confederates.

I took Mal’s “dark” mood was a way to show he was still haunted by the war. He sure didn’t feel like a winner.

Mal’s “whore” line seemed to be an easy way to simply explain what a Companion is for the audience.

I don’t think Simon ever said if he actually had a full plan of what to do, I think he was focused on getting River away from the Academy.




thanks Moose...you saved me a lot of typing.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2019 8:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I won't get this in one try, so I'll post at the end when I'm finished.

This looks like a wonderful post to have in Episode Discussion Forum.....oh well.

Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
It's been ages since watching... felt like a good time to see again... actually made some notes, thought I'd post a few here to see if anyone can answer some of the questions that popped up. I feel like I knew the answers at one time but memory rarely improves.

1. Biggest one - and one I'm pretty certain I had to know - we cut from Mal seeing the bad guys landing in Serenity Valley and Bendis getting shot, to the gang doing a salvage with the text "6 years later" over the top. So, what happened in those 6 years?!? Jail? That doesn't seem long enough a spell for being the enemy. Was their some kind of general declaration of suspension of war crimes because ... ? They needed a larger work force? Season 3 flashback?

End of Battle of Serenity Valley was Mid-July 2011, Armicist about a week later.
Mal got Serenity about 5 years before OOG (end Nov/begin Dec 2517), so that was end Nov/begin Dec 2012.

Other events since then are laid out in Timeline threads.
Itinerary:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58225

It seems you are mostly interested in the span of that first 18 months.
Did U.S. hold every single Imperial Japanese soldier, sailor in prison for years? Did U.S. hold every single fighter of Iraq in prison for 6 years? You say War Crimes, so are you claiming that every honorable warrior is guilty of War Crimes, and not just those exhibiting blatant criminal conduct?
Quote:


2. Wash and his dinos - was there ever a backstory for his dino obsession? It seemed less humorous and more of just a strange idea seeing it this time.

Wash is required to sit there, keeping an eye on the creens, not moving away, while they do the exciting stuff - it gets boring. Gotta keep from falling asleep.
Know what a Cockpit Voice Recording is full of? There is a duck, no, a goose. That's a bat. Look at the turtle, next to the T-Rex. These are the Flight Crew pointing out clouds. Their responsibility is to keep a visual observation, for planes flying without instrumentation. They must look at the sky, roving, and not get sleepy. For HOURS on end.
Quote:


3. The Cry Baby. It occurs to me now that they must send that out before each salvage, and far enough away to make it a decent misdirection.

Of course. AND in the opposite direction from where they want to go to escape, and not in a vector which would be convenient for the mystery ship to get them and the Cry Baby both.
Quote:


4. I think it's before Mal notices the imprint on the goods... just when they get back to the ship he gets all dark after Jayne says, "anyone you walk away from, I call that a win!" Where was his mind? Why the dark face?

If I recall the scene correctly, I thought he was thinking DON'T JINX IT!! Which, of course, he jinxed it and they find out that the goods are marked.
Quote:


5. Refuge metaphors galore. Was Whedon tapping humanities' common sense of suffering and doom? "Serenity" and "The Sky" as peaceful, safe refuge? You know he's a bit of a mad scientist and psychology is a bit of a mad science.

6. I thought Eavesdown Docks might have an interesting or telling source name. Didn't find anything, but I did find a nice overhead graphic of the docks from here:

https://firefly.fandom.com/wiki/Eavesdown_Docks



7. I will never warm to Simon. But... and one of the things I liked about the show and the crew is that THAT'S so like life. Your work place, your family, your forum there will always be someone that you don't care for but have to get along with.

8. Mal's "she's a whore" comment never sounds right, always sounds forced - out of character.

I now forget which scene that was, in the Pilot.
Quote:


9. Why did Inara say she was slipping? Was that a set-up for... eventually leaving the profession at the end/beginning of season ?

I also now forget which scene and context that quote was in, in the Pilot.
Quote:


10. Ok, this should be easy - where was Simon taking River? Just don't recall.

1. Away from the Institute. As I recall, Simon revealed that he had paid for her to be extracted from the Institute, and gotten as far as Persephone, which ws the jump-off point to get to the Outer Worlds. He either said or implied that he expected to be able to get lost from the Alliance while skittering about the Rim Worlds. I don't recall if this was from Pilot, BDM, OoG, or where.
Quote:


11. Book enters Inara's room and she's semi-nude and she says, "I was expecting you." Huh? Why would she want to make him so uncomfortable or even possibly offend a Shepard? Maybe it's a misread, but that also seems a bit out of character.

Inara was expecting Book to come visit. She is not known to be clairavoiant like River, so she didn't know the exact moment he would choose. They've been on board for over 2 days, did you expect her to remain unbathed for that entire time, even after the sweaty sex on Persephone?
Quote:


12. I am starting to think the center of the ep is Kaylee. She doesn't get the most or the biggest scenes, but when she is shot the whole story arc changes - everyone is strongly self-motivated from that action.

13. Love Jayne's quick response to Dobson's threat, "Gee, never been in trouble with the law before."

There's some others but those mainly - cheers for any suggestions/answers/input.

OK, I think I've completed this reply.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2019 10:34 PM

MOOSE


There you are, JSF! You have a link to your most recently updated timeline?

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Thursday, June 6, 2019 5:37 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
There you are, JSF! You have a link to your most recently updated timeline?


I'll try to work in some links in the above response.
Otherwise, the stuff I try to keep current is listed in Blue Sun Room Forum, see if this linky works:

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=12&tid=32459&mid=58098
1#580981

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