GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Silly Subplots

POSTED BY: ZICSOFT
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 07:14
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Monday, September 23, 2002 6:45 AM

ZICSOFT


Shows like Firefly need lots of silly subplots. Here's my submission.

One day while Serenity is parked at a busy spaceport, a cat sneaks aboard and makes itself at home. This little stowaway is discovered once the ship is back in deep space, and is wildly popular. Kaylee goes all googoo with it. Book saves it choice scraps from the kitchen. Even Jayne is known to talk to it when he thinks nobody's listening.

The one holdout is Mal, who hates cats, and would like nothing better than to stuff this one out an airlock. Only fear of a mutiny prevents him from doing so. So of course the cat, with the famous perversity of its species, attaches itself to the captain, following him around, cuddling up to him whenever he sits down. At first he shoos it away loudly, but unpleased looks from the crew force him to grit his teeth and try to ignore this little shadow.

At the end of the ep, Mal's had a particularly bad day, has had fights with everybody else on board, Lonely, depressed, and exhausted, he goes to his cabin, and flops down on his bunk. Immediately, the cat joins him. He starts to chase it away, but then grudgingly makes room for it. As we blackout, he's seen scratching the cat between the ears -- and talking to it.

JOSH, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Monday, September 23, 2002 8:14 AM

MORGAN


Yes, Joss.

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Monday, September 23, 2002 10:27 AM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND


Dammit, Z! That was my idea. Except in my version it was a futuristic space kitty with two heads. And Jayne was allergic to it so he had to take off all his clothes so Kaylee could rub him down with Calamine and then...

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Monday, September 23, 2002 12:10 PM

RINGWRAITH


Actually I can see this happening, especially in (hopefully) future seasons. With Joss I wouldn't be surprised.

************************************************
"How will this end?"
"In fire."
--Babylon 5, 'The Coming of Shadows'
************************************************

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Monday, September 23, 2002 12:12 PM

ZICSOFT


No two-headed space kitties allowed in this universe, sorry. I guess psychic kitties are OK, as long as their eyes don't glow.

JOSH, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:35 AM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND


Okay, the kittie will have one head only. Hey, maybe they could get the invisible Miss Kitty Fantastico to guest star. As long as Jayne still gets naked.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Tuesday, September 24, 2002 12:05 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


Quote:

Originally posted by JaynesGirlfriend:
Hey, maybe they could get the invisible Miss Kitty Fantastico to guest star.



Whatever happened to MKF anyway? She was one of the most awesomeest characters ever.

________________

"I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life’s a bitch. You’ve got to go out and kick ass." —Maya Angelou

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Tuesday, September 24, 2002 12:10 PM

JASONZZZ


Here's what I will add (cat lover's
please pardon)...

Simon, the ship's doctor - who has part of his lineage of southern Asian descent, gathers up some medicinal herbs from the ship's stores; and, to the rest of the crew's delight, creates a wonderful cantonese dish of Tiger, Phoenix, and Dragon. Only one crew member objects, claiming a bias against the diffusion of Asian influence for the last 400 years; but was subsequently made to walk the plank.

subplot of subplot...

quite apparently, a mutant strain of spacefaring "mad cat disease" was introduced aboard after the consumption of the aforementioned delicacy. Mad Cats, as you might well know, affects not the brain, but the reproductive systems - it also shortens the gestation period of the host. As you would imagine, the effect is quite pronounced on species with much shorter gestation periods. Within the matter of weeks, everyone onboard finds that they are pregnant and the entire ship is filled with fur balls.

Oh wait, I guess that one has already been done in about 18 different episodes of ST.


Quote:

Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Shows like Firefly need lots of silly subplots. Here's my submission.

One day while Serenity is parked at a busy spaceport, a cat sneaks aboard and makes itself at home. This little stowaway is discovered once the ship is back in deep space, and is wildly popular. Kaylee goes all googoo with it. Book saves it choice scraps from the kitchen. Even Jayne is known to talk to it when he thinks nobody's listening.

The one holdout is Mal, who hates cats, and would like nothing better than to stuff this one out an airlock. Only fear of a mutiny prevents him from doing so. So of course the cat, with the famous perversity of its species, attaches itself to the captain, following him around, cuddling up to him whenever he sits down. At first he shoos it away loudly, but unpleased looks from the crew force him to grit his teeth and try to ignore this little shadow.

At the end of the ep, Mal's had a particularly bad day, has had fights with everybody else on board, Lonely, depressed, and exhausted, he goes to his cabin, and flops down on his bunk. Immediately, the cat joins him. He starts to chase it away, but then grudgingly makes room for it. As we blackout, he's seen scratching the cat between the ears -- and talking to it.

JOSH, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!


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Tuesday, September 24, 2002 12:41 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND


Okay, I just read Shack's recap over at TWOP and as well as being evidence that I'm not the only one who thinks Adam Baldwin's a honey it reminded me of the most obvious and inevitable of silly subplots. We all know Kaylee's a pretty girl. Girly's a hottie, but apparently the show doesn't want us to know that yet. Eventually however Kaylee's going to have to be made over so the viewers can be shocked at how darn pretty that girl is.

And what better way to do that than to have Kaylee masquerade as a Companion? Kaylee all done up like Inara plus she's gotta fend off unwanted sexual advances? That's what I call funny, folks! Or sexual harrassment, take your pick.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Wednesday, September 25, 2002 6:55 AM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by JaynesGirlfriend:


And what better way to do that than to have Kaylee masquerade as a Companion? Kaylee all done up like Inara plus she's gotta fend off unwanted sexual advances? That's what I call funny, folks! Or sexual harrassment, take your pick.

Actually, Jewel Staite could have just as easily been cast as Inara -- before she put on the extra weight she needed to play Kaylee. But if Kaylee were to pose as a companion, it'd be a bit too campy.

This business of Kaylee's chubbiness makes me think Whedon wants to do some stories where a woman's self-image is an issue. This is the sort of thing he would have been into when he minored in Women's Studies, and obviously what he hand in mind with his first choice for the actress to play Willow -- a stocky, conspicuously Jewish-American actress. The network wanted somebody more glamorous and less ethnic. Allyson Hannigan was the resulting comprimise.

JOSH, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:13 AM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND


Quote:

Originally posted by Zicsoft:



Actually, Jewel Staite could have just as easily been cast as Inara -- before she put on the extra weight she needed to play Kaylee.

This business of Kaylee's chubbiness makes me think Whedon wants to do some stories where a woman's self-image is an issue.




Oh, hee! Oh, that's a good one, Z. Because if she'd put on just five more pounds that girl would be downright grotesque!

Please tell me you don't seriously think she's really chubby. "Hollywood chubby" perhaps. Of course the standards of Hollywood still seem to be defined by stars like Calista(I've never seen a picture of her where she wasn't really skinny so I'm pretty much convinced this is her natural state) and Jennifer Aniston(who we know has lost quite a bit of weight over the years) so really, who are they to judge? And even if Hollywood does consider her chubby no right minded viewer is going to think she is, especially any women of average American size who are sitting at home thinking, "Damn, I'd kill for her body!"

So Joss can explore body issues with "chubby" Kaylee all he wants, but until she's wearing at least a size 12 I ain't buying it.

We now return to your regularly scheduled and rant free version of JaynesGirlfriend.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Wednesday, September 25, 2002 8:50 AM

MOJOECA


The casting sides did describe Kaylee as "chubby and sexy as hell," however Jewel Staite is *not* chubby.

--- Joe

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Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:43 AM

ZICSOFT


You're right, an extra 15 pounds makes JS "Hollywood chubby", not truely overweight. And you're probably also right about the self-image thing. More likely we're gonna see this ongoing thing where Kaylee can't quite comprehend that Simon is as attracted to her as she is to him. Which wouldn't play very well if Kaylee were as svelte as some of the photos on Jewel-Staite.com

JOSH, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 11:00 AM

ALTERNITY


Maybe it's my TV, but Kaylee doesn't look chubby to me, though it's hard to tell with those overalls. If you want an example of Joss casting someone chubby, look at Amber Benson in Buffy. She's chubby, but not unpleasantly so. And kudos to Whedon (or whoever did) for casting her; she makes the Buffy cast as a whole seem more normal or realistic.

roj

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 11:13 AM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by Alternity:
Maybe it's my TV, but Kaylee doesn't look chubby to me, though it's hard to tell with those overalls. If you want an example of Joss casting someone chubby, look at Amber Benson in Buffy. She's chubby, but not unpleasantly so. And kudos to Whedon (or whoever did) for casting her; she makes the Buffy cast as a whole seem more normal or realistic.

roj

Amber Benson chubby? Don't be absurd. She does lack the little boy body type that a Hollywood starlet has to have. But if she's carrying any extra weight, I don't see it.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 1:52 PM

KALIMAC


Frankly, when I look at that scene in The Body when Buffy and Tara are sitting next to each other in the hospital, I just can't see why anyone finds Sarah Michelle Gellar attractive.

There's Amber, looking perfectly proportioned, and this reed-thin waif beside her, looking somewhat past dead.

Of course, this look really works for Buffy, as the premise of the series sort of demands it. But why is this supposed to be attractive?

(P.S. I love Amber.)

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 5:25 PM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kalimac:
Frankly, when I look at that scene in The Body when Buffy and Tara are sitting next to each other in the hospital, I just can't see why anyone finds Sarah Michelle Gellar attractive.

There's Amber, looking perfectly proportioned, and this reed-thin waif beside her, looking somewhat past dead.

Of course, this look really works for Buffy, as the premise of the series sort of demands it. But why is this supposed to be attractive?

(P.S. I love Amber.)

Blasphemer! SMG is the epitome of beauty! All those who doubt this are beyond pity!

Admitedly she's often seen in really ugly clothes and industrial-strength makeup. But that's Buffy's fault, not Sarah's!

Amber Benson is very sexy too, but in a non-Hollywood way.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 5:49 PM

MOJOECA


I'm really attracted to the Buffy of the first 3 years. Then she just got too thin!

--- Joe

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 2:24 AM

TINYTIMM


Quote:

Originally posted by Alternity:
Maybe it's my TV, but Kaylee doesn't look chubby to me, though it's hard to tell with those overalls. If you want an example of Joss casting someone chubby, look at Amber Benson in Buffy. She's chubby, but not unpleasantly so.



I suspect you have lost your concept of normal, or this is a strange, new definition of "chubby" that I do not understand.

http://www.wonderquest.com/size-women-us.htm
"Q: What is considered to be the average size woman in America? --Debbie, Grand Prairie, Texas

A: According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the average U.S. woman is 5' 3.7 (162 centimeters) tall and weighs 152 pounds (69 kilograms). This corresponds to a Body Mass Index of 26.3 kilograms/meters², which is slightly less than the average man's.

The average American woman is tall enough for an astronaut (minimum height, 4' 10.5) but falls short of the average Miss America winner (5' 6.5) and is about the same height as the shortest president (James Madison, 5' 4).

By the way, the average U.S. male stands 5' 9.1 tall and weighs 180 pounds, with a Body Mass Index of 26.5 kg/m²."



Jeff
Who needs to lose more than SMG weighs...sigh.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 5:10 AM

ALTERNITY


Well, I didn't use the word normal. Normal includes a wide range of heights and weights. So it is normal to be fat. It must be; I know a lot of fat people.

The average woman of 150 pounds is going to weigh more than the average *young* woman like Amber Benson or Sara Michelle Gellar or Jewel Staite.

But I still think that Amber Benson is chubby by TV standards. I really like Amber's character on Buffy and always looked forward to episodes that included her, but after The Musical she seemed to disappear and it irked me to think that they probably wrote her out of the series just because she wasn't TV skinny. I couldn't explain her disappearance any other way.

I've been misunderstood. I'm a big fan of Amber Benson.

roj

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 6:56 AM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


For me, Tara was the character that really snuck up on me. She was just kind of there, but I never really thought about her. Then, around the begining of season 6, I finally got it. I really looked foward to the next scene with Tara in it. She has a quiet intensity to her emotions that makes her presence all the more powerful--in a different way from Spike, who perpetually cranks the volume on his emotions to "high." (Not to gripe on Spike--that works for his character.)

I think a turning point for me was when Buffy confessed to Tara her relationship (loosely speaking) with Spike. Tara's pure empathy for Buffy, her complete lack of condemation, it made me realize for the first time just how much I loved Tara.

Tara is perhaps one of the most realistic characters on the show, which is saying something. Even now, I often feel like I've lost a good friend.


Amber Benson

________________

"You still don't get it. It's not about right, not about wrong... It's about Power." —Morph-O-Monster, "Lessons"

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 7:18 AM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by mojoeca:
I'm really attracted to the Buffy of the first 3 years. Then she just got too thin!

--- Joe

SMG was just a little slow losing her baby fat. Which probably helped her get the role, since it made her look 15 when she was actually 18. But she's not thin, she's just a small person. Hence all the "I'm taller than you" jokes.

MT has the opposite problem. When she forgets to wear the teenage pout, she looks like she's in her 20s, even though she's really only 17. So she's closer to her character's true age than any of the other actors, but she's the one that has to work hardest not to look too old!

Anyway, anybody who thinks Sarah Gellar isn't the most gorgeous female on the planet has a screw loose!

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 8:00 AM

MOJOECA


I happen to be more attracted to MT right now, out of all the BtVS female cast. One more year, and I can oogle her guilt-free.

--- Joe

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 12:16 PM

KALIMAC


Oh good, so I'm not the only one who has the same Trachtenberg problem... (For me the problem is even worse, since I see her even more as a child, having been a big fan since she was on Pete & Pete. But though she's very attractive, she's really far too thin also.)

Anyway, I think it was The Body where I fully understood Tara's character. Joss spent so much time focusing on Tara's face when other characters were emoting, that I finally got it. She's this "Spirit of the Earth" kind of Mother Gaia character. She can't help but empathize. She is everyone's mother figure in a way.

"Plus she's hot."

(I must have a screw loose BTW, 'cause I don't see it. I don't find SMG attractive a bit.)

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 12:16 PM

HOOK


this was done in star ship troopers...or was it forever war? anyway it was done...at least in books..

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 12:46 PM

MOJOECA


Speaking of STARSHIP TROOPERS, anybody notice that the Alliance soldiers are wearing recycled MI battle gear?

--- Joe

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 12:52 PM

TINYTIMM


Quote:

Originally posted by Alternity:
I know a lot of fat people.
The average woman of 150 pounds is going to weigh more than the average *young* woman like Amber Benson or Sara Michelle Gellar or Jewel Staite.
But I still think that Amber Benson is chubby by TV standards. I really like Amber's character on Buffy and always looked forward to episodes that included her, but after The Musical she seemed to disappear and it irked me to think that they probably wrote her out of the series just because she wasn't TV skinny. I've been misunderstood. I'm a big fan of Amber Benson.


I have no doubt of your intentions or devotion. I just like to remind people that the body image offered by TV is representative of less than 1% of the population.


Jeff
Who notes the only two characters in BtVS who weren't too skinny were killed off.
Who also thinks Lucy Lawless is attractive.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:02 PM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by TinyTimm:
I have no doubt of your intentions or devotion. I just like to remind people that the body image offered by TV is representative of less than 1% of the population.

Which percentage goes down another couple of decimal points when you discount people who don't have eating disorders! Alas, some of us are permanently brainwashed by having grown up watching TV.
Quote:

Jeff
Who notes the only two characters in BtVS who weren't too skinny were killed off.

Beside Tara, who do you mean?

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:13 PM

TINYTIMM


Quote:

Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Anyway, anybody who thinks Sarah Gellar isn't the most gorgeous female on the planet has a screw loose!



My definition of gorgeous includes well rounded.

Jeff
Who thinks a size four should be fed under a dietary Doctor's care.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:19 PM

TINYTIMM


Quote:

Originally posted by mojoeca:
Speaking of STARSHIP TROOPERS, anybody notice that the Alliance soldiers are wearing recycled MI battle gear?



Please. I have yet to forgive them eliminating the Marauder Suits.

Jeff
Who wants to see good power armor shots.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:22 PM

TINYTIMM


Quote:

Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Quote:

Originally posted by TinyTimm:
Jeff
Who notes the only two characters in BtVS who weren't too skinny were killed off.

Beside Tara, who do you mean?


Joyce Summers of course.

Jeff
Who is of an age where most of the female cast constituted underage females. But, Joyce in Xander's dream, wearing red satin....

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:28 PM

HOOK


Quote:

Originally posted by mojoeca:
Speaking of STARSHIP TROOPERS, anybody notice that the Alliance soldiers are wearing recycled MI battle gear?

--- Joe



They also resemble US rangers. Ever see Black Hawk down? Aside from the uniform color they are almost identical...from helmet right down to the neepads.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:56 PM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Please. I have yet to forgive them eliminating the Marauder Suits.

Jeff
Who wants to see good power armor shots.

Yeah, really. I would have thought the "mobile" part of the Mobile Infantry would be the first thing that'd catch the imagination of Hollywood. But instead Paul Verhoven wasted all his energy making fun of Heinlen's politics and doing elaborate shots of people getting dismembered. That guy loves dismemberment -- he's almost turned it into a cliche.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 2:13 PM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by TinyTimm:

Joyce Summers of course.

Jeff
Who is of an age where most of the female cast constituted underage females. But, Joyce in Xander's dream, wearing red satin....


OK, Kristine Sutherland isn't exactly anorexic:



But she's still a lot more Hollywood-looking than Amber Benson. At least when she's not wearing her Mom costume:



JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:22 AM

BLACKJOKE


For the record, they couldn't have Kaylee pose as a companion, if only for the reason that it would totally negate having the character of Inara. If it is true that having a companion on board allows Serenity to land in certain ports, all they really needed is someone to dress the part, and a good hacker to put a fake companion profile on the cortex for interested parties to view. If people in the ports wondered why the companion doesn't actively look for customers while in port, a cover story of a recruiting for new companions or something equally plausible could be used. The sole purpose of Inara is to be a love interest for Mal. Morenna may be a sweetheart, but Inara is the weakest character.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:53 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by BlackJoke:
For the record, they couldn't have Kaylee pose as a companion, if only for the reason that it would totally negate having the character of Inara. If it is true that having a companion on board allows Serenity to land in certain ports, all they really needed is someone to dress the part, and a good hacker to put a fake companion profile on the cortex for interested parties to view. If people in the ports wondered why the companion doesn't actively look for customers while in port, a cover story of a recruiting for new companions or something equally plausible could be used. The sole purpose of Inara is to be a love interest for Mal. Morenna may be a sweetheart, but Inara is the weakest character.



She's also a mother figure that no other female character on the ship can be. Lends a warmth and civility to the entire ship. Check out the beginning of the movie and see what's missing.

And has backstory of her own.

And is the only person on board who Mal has to relate to on a level of Person, not Captain.

And gives us a face of an Alliance sympathizer who is not either evil or has been wronged by them.

And adds the actual role of a Companion, a controverse and interesting concept. Just having an alibi pretend-Companion act would completely erase that edge.

And so on.

Yes, the relationship between Mal and Inara is a very prominent feature for both characters, but it isn't the defining one for either Mal OR Inara.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:44 AM

MATTCOZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
...and the entire ship is filled with fur balls.
Oh wait, I guess that one has already been done in about 18 different episodes of ST.

Hey, don't diss the tribbles!
Quote:

Originally posted by Zicsoft:
This business of Kaylee's chubbiness makes me think Whedon wants to do some stories where a woman's self-image is an issue.

Interesting that they never hooked up until she lost the weight, quite a lesson to give to young female audience out there.

For the record, I thought she looked better Firefly-sized than she does Serenity-sized. But this is her normal weight, she actually got defensive about it on her blog, because of all the people calling her too thin.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:54 AM

BLACKJOKE


[
She's also a mother figure that no other female character on the ship can be. Lends a warmth and civility to the entire ship. Check out the beginning of the movie and see what's missing.

I'll give you the mother figure, since Zoe is too war like and Kaylee too innocent.

And has backstory of her own.

I'll give you this, and it is a shame that it wasn't able to be investigated. Exactly why did she live Zenion?

And is the only person on board who Mal has to relate to on a level of Person, not Captain.

Not sure about this, though she is the only one who won't back down from him.

And gives us a face of an Alliance sympathizer who is not either evil or has been wronged by them.

I like this fact. It ties in nicely with the not backing down trait.

And adds the actual role of a Companion, a controverse and interesting concept. Just having an alibi pretend-Companion act would completely erase that edge.

I don't really agree with that. Maybe it is just that Inara is wasted by the position that defines her. Obviously Mal feels the same.

Yes, the relationship between Mal and Inara is a very prominent feature for both characters, but it isn't the defining one for either Mal OR Inara.


But I do think it defines Inara. She is there as a catalyst for him, a sounding board for him to play off of, and the character on her own is weak. He has other relationships with other characters. She has Kaylee, a bit, she had the opportuinty to play off of Book, but that is it. She is there for Mal, all her major dialogue is with him, all her arguements with him, etc.

I guess I feel she is wasted.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:13 AM

MATTCOZ


Quote:

Originally posted by BlackJoke:
Exactly why did she live Zenion?

Sihnon.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:14 AM

BLACKJOKE


My apologies. And I meant to say leave, not live.

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