GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Poor Fox isn't doing so well. Boo Hoo

POSTED BY: BEATLE
UPDATED: Saturday, July 3, 2004 10:32
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3749
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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 6:19 AM

BEATLE


http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/30/nielsens.ap/index.html

Fox's year-round season struggling
Network finishes fourth in Nielsens
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 Posted: 9:40 AM EDT (1340 GMT)




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FACT BOX
Prime-time viewership numbers compiled by Nielsen Media Research for the week of June 21-27.
1. "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation," CBS, 15.3 million viewers.
2. "Without a Trace," CBS, 12.6 million viewers.
3. "American Film Institute's 100 Years and 100 Songs," CBS, 12.3 million viewers.
4. "Law & Order," NBC, 11.9 million viewers.
5. "CSI: Miami," CBS, 11.8 million viewers.
6. "Two and a Half Men," CBS, 11.3 million viewers.
7. "Everybody Loves Raymond," CBS, 11.3 million viewers.
8. "60 Minutes," CBS, 10.9 million viewers.
9. "Cold Case," CBS, 10.2 million viewers.
10. "Law & Order," NBC, 10.1 million viewers.

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NEW YORK (AP) -- Fox is preaching patience as its attempt to run more original summer programming has yet to be embraced by viewers.

The network finished fourth in the ratings last week, behind even ABC, which Fox routinely beat during the winter months. Fox came in third among viewers aged 18 to 49, the demographic it most cares about.

Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie's "The Simple Life 2," which finished just out of Nielsen Media Research's top 10 last week with 9.3 million viewers, is Fox's summer highlight.

None of Fox's five other new shows are doing well, including the one by usually reliable reality producer Mark Burnett. His look at Las Vegas in "Casino" was seen by fewer than 5 million people last week.

Perhaps most disappointing is "North Shore," a soap about young workers at a luxury hotel in Hawaii. Fox hoped it would catch on as "The O.C." did last summer, but it drew 4.4 million viewers last week.

Fox was hoping to catch attention in the summer, saying it was no longer a time it would subject viewers to a steady diet of reruns.

"While we're seeing the shows come out of the gate slowly, we are seeing growth in virtually every show each week and we're optimistic," said Fox spokesman Scott Grogin. "You can't start an entirely new way of programming a network and expect it to come out of the gate like gangbusters, especially in the summer."

While the shows' numbers are small, Fox is taking some solace in the fact that they're not dropping much week to week, so they may have potential to build.

Fox has no plans to change its schedule, Grogin said.

Otherwise, viewers enjoyed the American Film Institute's salute to Hollywood music. The CBS special was the week's No. 3 show, with 12.3 million viewers.

CBS won the week, averaging 8.8 million viewers (6.1 rating, 11 share). NBC was second with 7.2 million viewers (4.9, 9) and won among the 18-to-49-year-old demographic. ABC averaged 5 million viewers (3.4, 6), Fox had 4.8 million (3.1, 6), UPN 2.4 million (1.7, 3), the WB 2.3 million (1.6, 3) and Pax TV 920,000 (0.6, 1)

NBC's "Nightly News" won the evening news ratings race, averaging 8.6 million viewers (6.1 rating, 13 share). ABC's "World News Tonight" had 8.1 million (5.7, 12) and the "CBS Evening News" 6.7 million (4.8, 10).

A ratings point represents 1,084,000 households, or 1 percent of the nation's estimated 108.4 million TV homes. The share is the percentage of in-use televisions tuned to a given show.



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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:01 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Beatle:
Fox is preaching patience

Well, isn't that. . . special.



-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:12 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


Being from Hawaii, I can tell you right now that 'North Shore' suck and choke like you would not believe. It insults the viewer's intelligence. Nothing new there.

Although it's set in Hawaii, you would never know it by watching it. Anyone who has been to Hawaii can tell you in a second that what's on screen doesn't represent Hawaii or its people. God forbid, even 'Baywatch Hawaii' did a better job.

A show about Hawaii? My bet is on NBC's Hawaii. It looks like Hawaii.

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:27 AM

FIREFLEW


You know, mayhaps someone high up should suggest the idea of repeating Firefly?

Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:41 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Quote:

Originally posted by Fireflew:
You know, mayhaps someone high up should suggest the idea of repeating Firefly?


But who could grow a brain that quickly?

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:00 AM

HOWDYROCKERBABY1


Fox is sooo full of crap, just yesterday i saw a commercial for stupid North Shore calling it the seaons number 1 drama! what a load of go-se. somebody needs to pull that stick out of their butt and beat them over the head with it!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
MAL: This is my scrap of nowhere. You go on and find your own.
SAFFRON: You can't just leave me here, on this
lifeless piece of crap moon...
MAL: Sure I can.
SAFFRON: I'll die.
MAL: Well, as a courtesy, you might start
getting busy on that, cause all this chatter ain't doin' me any kindness.

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 12:22 PM

BEATLE


Another article I just read...

Summer a bummer for network TV programming
By Gary Levin, USA TODAY

Network TV's year-round programming push has turned a hoped-for summer sizzle into more of a fizzle. (Related story: TV's long, hot summer)

Fans aren't exactly kicking down doors to watch NBC's Next Action Star.
NBC

Five weeks after the traditional TV season ended, only two summer series are unqualified hits: Fox's reality-comedy The Simple Life 2 and NBC's stand-up contest Last Comic Standing.

But a rash of new shows, in the most aggressive summer rollout yet, are mostly clunkers, including Fox's The Casino, NBC's Next Action Star and ABC's Ultimate Love Test.

"It's interesting that NBC and Fox have declined the most from last year, and they're the ones putting on most of the (new) stuff," says analyst Steve Sternberg of ad firm Magna Global USA.

The summer programming rollout continues Tuesday, when CBS unveils fifth seasons of Big Brother and The Amazing Race. But early returns suggest there won't be new breakout hits to mirror past hot-weather phenomena Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, Survivor, Fear Factor and American Idol. And NBC's For Love or Money and Crime and Punishment are down sharply from last year.

"This may be the summer we see the reality bubble burst a little bit," Sternberg says.

Uniquely, Fox has sought to retrain its audience to a year-round schedule of sitcoms and dramas: It added four this summer, part of a plan to blunt delays caused by postseason baseball. But The Jury and North Shore are flops, and Quintuplets and Method and Red have won only decent ratings astride Simple Life.

"I'd say it's a mixed bag right now," Fox entertainment president Gail Berman says. "But if we come out of summer with three shows (that can return), it will be a pretty extraordinary strategy." She notes that last November's delayed rollout produced mostly failures. (Remember Skin, Luis or A Minute With Stan Hooper?)

All told, broadcasters are down 8% from last summer, while basic-cable networks are up 8%, helped by MTV's Newlyweds, FX's Nip/Tuck and USA's Monk, along with TBS' Sex and the City reruns.

WB's Summerland has gained traction. But "no new shows have broken out this summer," says CBS' David Poltrack, who says the bold push for new series — even modestly rated ones — is "a better alternative than running repeats of failed shows." But "you're still better off, if you have successful shows, repeating them."

Case in point: CBS had eight of last week's top 10 series. All but one was a repeat.

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 3:43 PM

THEREALME


Huh.

So, do you think that there is any chance that some Fox executive will lose his or her job over this?

Someone who DESERVES to, that is...


The Real Me

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:05 PM

LAILING


By the way, I never DID hear: just why, exactly, did Fox say they cancelled Firefly - and was that the real reason? Also, I've heard many rumors and hearsay, but nothing specific (no actual quotes by anybody - Fox or Firefly) as to what Fox did or said, to piss Firefly people off - or vise-versa.
I try not to listen to rumors. And it's too easy - IF ONE IS TRYING TO BE OBJECTIVE - to put down the insults to Fox as sour grapes. And any Fox insults of Firefly people, too, for that matter, because it's happened before, and the real truth usually turns out to be somewhere in between. (He said/she said - and sometimes neither did - and sometimes both did!) I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest here - but I really don't understand.

"They've gone to *plaid*!"

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:22 PM

THEREALME


My personal guess is (yes, my guess, nothing official):

Firefly by its tenth episode was not doing as well as the X-Files at its height of popularity.

And it was much harder to produce than yet another reality show.

I'll leave out the parts about all the thinking that was needed to get by that PLOT thingie, whatever THAT was, and...

Oooops.

I know, this doesn't help your objective view and I apologize, but I couldn't help myself...

I will consider your tagline carefully, and try to do better next time.


The Real Me

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 5:02 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


It is not just Firefly, I could list a dozen show which I enjoyed.... and then were cancelled

It is not really sour grapes for me, I fiqure they have to fail badly before they might change. Thusly I am enjoying their failures.

I don't enjoy " reality tv " so I no longer watch any Fox shows, what can I say,

If they commit themselves to quality, scripted drama, and give decent promotion to these show, I might give them another shot,

but I doubt it

" If I going to get killed for a word....
Then my word is Poon-Tang "

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:32 PM

SCOTTISHBROWNCOAT


In the spirit of the Poet Philosopher Snoop Doggy Dogg.....Scrizew Fizox!

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:24 PM

SNEAKER98


Hmm.. me thinks that america might finally be growing bored of the damned reality shows?

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 12:18 AM

JK


Hmm. I never heard Fox's offical reason(s) for cancelling Firefly either. Were there any? Or did they simply and silently pull the plug and then fade back into the night?

JK

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 3:40 AM

CYBERSNARK


Pretty sure the official reason was that the show was a flop, ratings-wise. Some weeks, the show actually received zero ratings.

(Yes, due to the musical timeslots, the repeated pre-emptions [can't get ratings if it's not on], and the lack of advertising, but those figures probably aren't recorded anywhere.)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 3:54 AM

ASTRIANA


Actually, I don't think they ever did officially cancel Firefly. I think they put the show on hiatus, and never started it running again. Joss et al were told about the cancellation of the series while they were still in production for "The Message," and said goodbye at the Christmas party, but I recall one of the cast having said something specific about never having had a wrap party for the series.

~Astriana~
~Long-Winded Goddess of Inter-Board Communication and Diplomacy~

and

El Jefe Magnifico's Mistress... of Communications and Harems...

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 5:56 AM

LIZ


You are right Astriana -- i believe it was Jewel that said they didn't have a wrap party (and someone here on FFFn offered to throw one fore them!)
Lailing here's a link if you are looking for an unbiased story:
http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|79147|1|,00.html

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 6:02 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Fireflew:
You know, mayhaps someone high up should suggest the idea of repeating Firefly?





Sure. Instead of playing them out of order, just play one episode over and over. FOX would love that idea. Or maybe mix and match starting with one epsiode then having another after the commercial break, and so on, kinda a highlite reel. Could do theme nights. Like Whore Night, Senseless brawl night, Villian Night, Preacher Night, Crazy Sister Night, Hero of Canton Night, Night of the Living Dead (featuring various wounds and death scenes) and so on.

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 6:17 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Astriana:
Actually, I don't think they ever did officially cancel Firefly. I think they put the show on hiatus, and never started it running again. Joss et al were told about the cancellation of the series while they were still in production for "The Message," and said goodbye at the Christmas party, but I recall one of the cast having said something specific about never having had a wrap party for the series.

~Astriana~
~Long-Winded Goddess of Inter-Board Communication and Diplomacy~

and

El Jefe Magnifico's Mistress... of Communications and Harems...

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.



I believe you are right Astri. According to Joss & Nathan, the cast's Christmas party had to be the wrap party since Fox never "officially" cancelled the show.

As to Fox & her current woes......it could not happen to a worse network as far as I am concerned. They deserve whatever bad times they come upon. They would not know a good show if it bit them on the backside.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Thursday, July 1, 2004 6:23 AM

SOUTHERNMERC


I can't think of anything to say that isn't full of hate.

Jayne: "See, Vera? You get dressed up, you get taken someplace fun!"

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 6:41 AM

LAILING


Quote:

Originally posted by liz:
You are right Astriana -- i believe it was Jewel that said they didn't have a wrap party (and someone here on FFFn offered to throw one fore them!)
Lailing here's a link if you are looking for an unbiased story:
http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|79147|1|,00.html



Apparently, Zap2It has "undergone a redesign", and the link doesn't work - and neither do the ones on the site. I'll have to try to search for it later, I guess.

"They've gone to *plaid*!"

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 7:15 AM

LIZ


i tried the link and it didn't work, then i tried again and it did... go figure.
anyways here's the article:
Quote:

TV News
'Firefly' to Go on Hiatus As FOX Shuffles Midseason
(Tuesday, November 26 10:00 PM)
FOX is introducing a whole series of changes to its schedule com January, heralded by Joss Whedon's "Firefly" going on hiatus.
FOX President of Entertainment Gail Berman admitted Tuesday (Nov. 26) that the ambitious sci-fi western "did not find an audience right away."

"What we know is happening with the show is the great creative growth that it's experiencing. That's why we ordered additional episodes," says Berman. "We think that Joss is finding his creative voice with this show and we need to see how that's going to work for us in December."



Berman says FOX will promote "Firefly" heavily and wait to see if there is any ratings growth when the network airs the original two-hour pilot in December.
"Because we had already ordered additional episodes, we are going to have several episodes available when it's out of production. So we'll have a running start if we want to put it back in production," adds Berman.

With "Firefly" on hold, FOX will move "Fastlane" from its Wednesdays at 9 p.m. ET slot to Fridays at 8 p.m. in January.

Starting Jan. 29, Wednesday nights will start off with "That '70s Show" followed by the weekly results of the second "American Idol" at 8:30 p.m. "The Bernie Mac Show" and "Cedric the Entertainer Presents" will move to 9 p.m.

FOX will announce shortly what will fill the Mondays at 9 p.m. timeslot following "Boston Public" since David E. Kelley's "girls club" was so short-lived. Many assume that midseason drama "Keen Eddie," starring Mark Valley ("Pasadena") as a New York cop who has to go to London to redeem himself, is the front-runner.

Since losing key anchor shows "Ally McBeal" and "The X-Files" last season, FOX has been struggling to perform. This showed during the November sweeps, when the launch of FOX's new primetime shows were hurt rather than helped by the disruption of the baseball season.

Berman calls it a "transitional year."


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Thursday, July 1, 2004 1:56 PM

LAILING


Thanx!
"Did not find an audience right away"? They must have been looking to hook the whole of the world and within the 1st 3 frames of the show, because if it didn't find an audience right away, then who are all the people buying the DVD's? And why would mega-studio Universal bother buying the rights? You don't see them doing a "Sword of Justice" movie, do you? (Anybody remember that show? It was about a playboy-type guy jailed for a crime he didn't commit. He learned all kinds of cool criminal stuff in jail, though, & when he got out, he used the knowledge to fight crime. On only 1 season & I really liked it. Doubt anybody will revive it in any form...) Ok, I'm officially starting to wonder about Fox. What I'm wondering is if they went to the NBC school of programming. (Referring to NBC's deliberate killing of Star Trek-TOS. Basically it boils down to: they didn't like it, so they killed it.)

"They've gone to *plaid*!"

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 2:33 PM

GUNRUNNER


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Pretty sure the official reason was that the show was a flop, ratings-wise. Some weeks, the show actually received zero ratings.

(Yes, due to the musical timeslots, the repeated pre-emptions [can't get ratings if it's not on], and the lack of advertising, but those figures probably aren't recorded anywhere.)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.



Maybe I hit my head too hard or I was in an alternate dimension at the time but I don't remember the show being Pre-Empted (maybe once) and I seem to remember lots of TV and Radio ads for it. Is my memory fading?

BTW I live in upstate New York so maybe the folk who run the local FuX station liked it.

The Firefly CCG Yahoo Group:
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Thursday, July 1, 2004 4:08 PM

THEZOOMZOOMKID


The show did cost a lot of money and it wasn't getting good enough ratings so they can make a profit off of it. Mostly because FOX thought they knew what was good for the show and not Joss. They doomed it to Friday night and they were wondering why they it wasn't getting good ratings? They didn't even bother showing the pilot and they wondered why it wasn't getting good ratings? They showed the episodes out of order and they wondered why it wasn't getting good ratings? They promoted it mostly as a comedy show and they wondered why it wasn't getting good ratings? I think they spent most of their money on acid or something.

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Friday, July 2, 2004 4:27 AM

SCOTTISHBROWNCOAT


I think the Acid would have just made them smarter, this was pure sober stupidity.

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Friday, July 2, 2004 4:54 AM

SOUTHERNMERC


The pre-empting folks are referring to, GunRunner, was the baseball games playing at the time. Think it was some big tournament, called "The World Series." Not nearly as important as FF to us browncoats, but fox seemed to think it was more important than treating the show properly.

Mind that you don't slip and fall on the bitter tears.

Jayne: "You got yourself lookin' mighty hideous!"

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Friday, July 2, 2004 8:01 AM

CYBERSNARK


Could also be me being unclear; sometimes I describe it as "pre-empting" when a network decides seemingly randomly to air, say Survivor or Fear Factor in another show's timeslot without actually telling anyone beforehand (and not actually rescheduling said show).

It's typically one of those "and now, three episodes of ___" deals. wherein they rplace the two hour-long blocks after or before the show's official timeslot.

Plus: they aired "Serenity" in December? I recall it was January before I saw it.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Friday, July 2, 2004 10:10 AM

TCORTEZ


Quote:

Originally posted by LaiLing:
By the way, I never DID hear: just why, exactly, did Fox say they cancelled Firefly - and was that the real reason? Also, I've heard many rumors and hearsay, but nothing specific (no actual quotes by anybody - Fox or Firefly) as to what Fox did or said, to piss Firefly people off - or vise-versa. ...
...

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|84985|1|,00.html

..."Asked what he learned from his "Firefly" experience, Whedon says, "Don't tell your actors you're going to run for seven years when you're not. Make sure that the people buying your show actually want it. That was a big one."...

Sounds like a Fox executive got Joss/Firefly forced down his throat and then sabotaged it.



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Friday, July 2, 2004 10:12 AM

CCT


I have to share one of my most frustrating TV experiences...

One Friday, I was really scrambling to get ready for Firefly. I have satellite, and have to use an antenna hooked up to my VCR to get local stations, which I very seldom watch. My local Fox station is far away, so the only way I can get a halfway decent picture is to put a long cord on the antenna and put it out on my deck, oriented *just right*. Even then it's only so-so....

I fight with the antenna issue, then rush to and from the pizza place to pick up my order. I get everything together and sit down with seconds to spare, feeling elation and anticipation.

And I got "Happy Gilmore".

The torrent of profanities and sheer anger I vented frightened the neighbors, the neighbors dog, and scared away most of the local wildlife.

Damn I was pissed off!


It's sad, really- the ONLY thing that would motivate me to the effort of watching FOX- actually ANY network TV for that matter- was this one specific show. And they dump it.

Grrr.

CCT

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Friday, July 2, 2004 11:49 AM

GUNRUNNER


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Could also be me being unclear; sometimes I describe it as "pre-empting" when a network decides seemingly randomly to air, say Survivor or Fear Factor in another show's timeslot without actually telling anyone beforehand (and not actually rescheduling said show).



I know what you were saying its just I don't remember it hapening except for maybe once. The show was just so good and I rewatched it almost constantly after it aired that I must have forgot the messed up air time.

I better go dig out my old VHS tapes and see if that little FOX Time and Temp thing is in any of the episodes.

The Firefly CCG Yahoo Group:
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The Firefly CCG Forum:
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Friday, July 2, 2004 12:36 PM

GEORDIESTEVE2003


I read about new shows on Fox, and all recent big network channels, I dont think there was one show that sounded interesting apart from JJ Abrams Lost, and even that wasnt particularly thrilling. There was no new ideas, just retarted trash. Example, a blind cop seeking justice, anyone heard of Daredevil, a comic by Marvel for the last say, 30 years maybe? Oh, or lets try, the woman without fear, a girl without a fear gene, um, hello, Daredevil!!!!

If all the future of TV has to offer us is the world of cop shows and reality TV, then I'm off to find something better to do, like watch my Firefly DVD's and buy old TV stuff from years ago when it was inventive, and new and interesting, not low brow, low maintenance, piles of crap.



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Friday, July 2, 2004 1:27 PM

JELLO


Television has lost every appealing trait it once had. The flair it once emitted has been completely eradicated. There is not one single, decent show left on the aire. This new Reality-based trend that is overrunning almost every network or cable channel is really dampening my mood. My only escape seems to be all the great shows of the past suddenly appearing more and more on DVD, which I greatly appreciate 'cause I need something to watch and occupy my time. A hole is literally burned in my wallet because of how much I spent on the box sets of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Firefly, Smallville, Dead Like Me, Dark Angel (sucked, but Jessica Alba is hot), Roswell, and soon another good show canceled by those incompetents over at FOX, Wonderfalls. And those 'tards still haven't learned their lesson and are continuing on canceling shows, i.e. The Jury, yet they still keep that horrific Tru Calling on the aire. Don't get me wrong, Eliza Dushku is all manners of hot and seeing her run around is fairly enjoyable, but the story lines are unbearable (not even the great Doug Petrie can save this). All I have left to say is Nee ta ma duh. Tyen-shia suo-yo duh run doh gai si. -Farewell

I'll be in my bunk.

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Saturday, July 3, 2004 10:32 AM

FIREFLEW


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:




Sure. Instead of playing them out of order, just play one episode over and over. FOX would love that idea. Or maybe mix and match starting with one epsiode then having another after the commercial break, and so on, kinda a highlite reel. Could do theme nights. Like Whore Night, Senseless brawl night, Villian Night, Preacher Night, Crazy Sister Night, Hero of Canton Night, Night of the Living Dead (featuring various wounds and death scenes) and so on.



*Unsure* Uh, what?


Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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