GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Jayne and Kaylee

POSTED BY: MENCC1701
UPDATED: Monday, June 28, 2004 22:39
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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 3:38 PM

MENCC1701


This is probably about my second post ever here, but whatever....

Anyways, I'm one of the ones in the camp that believes that Jayne has a crush on Kaylee, and I've been reading\particpating in a debate on this very subject, and I was struck by the absolute lack of evidence of this... I mean, there's lots of subtle things, but nothing really concrete. Can anyone come up with anything?


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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 4:38 PM

FLYINFREE


I don't think it's a crush I think he thinks of her as a little sister. He is very protective of her, he makes fun of her but in the kindest way he knows how. He has never made a pass at her and is not unconfortable with sleeping with other women around her. Kaylee is the only person introduced on the show that Jayne seems to feel that way about, everyone else he couldn't care less if they are killed (as evidenced by his more than willingness to leave Mal and Zoe behind and his turning Simon and River in). He and Book buddy around but I'm sure he wouldn't risk anything for Book either, he just finds Book interesting.

"...we're still flyin'."
"That's not much."
"It's enough." Malcolm Reynolds and Simon Tam - Serenity

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 5:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I think Jayne is a bit mixed on Kaylee. On the one hand, he's into making crude remarks at the dinner table to embarrass her in front of Simon. Jayne figures ( and rightly so) that a girl like Kaylee is likely to fall for a well to do, young doctor type. Both Jayne and Kaylee are likely from similar types of rural up brining, it's easy to see how a smart, rich, pretty boy like Simon can piss of Jayne to no end.

On the other hand, after Kaylee gets shot by Lawrence, and she's in the sick bay getting operated on...Jayne can be seen, in the shadows above, looking down and anxiously awaiting to see if Lil Kaylee makes it. I think that shot shows alot of how Jayne feels about Kaylee.

Not sure that helped in the least, but there it is.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 5:23 PM

MENCC1701


Yeah, that's what I mainly go on for the core of my evidence. And you know, now that I think about it, couldn't that whole scene with Jayne being crude kind of show it as well? I know it seems weird, but it could almost be Jayne doing the best he can to show an alternative to someone like Simon, and remind Kaylee that they both come from the same upbringing.

"I'd like a vegetarian sub, please. And can I get bacon on that?"

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Tuesday, June 22, 2004 6:12 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


There's quite a few fans on the board that think Jayne and Kaylee have potential as a couple. There's some that see a relationship between Jayne and River. I don't really see either. Especially Jayne and River, just too many differnces.

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Friday, June 25, 2004 11:05 PM

THEREALME


Most of the time, Jayne treats Kaylee rather well, doesn't he?

The only time that I can recall Jayne being nasty to Kaylee is when Kaylee is showing romantic interest in some guy (Simon).

The crude dinner comment. The "Kaylee is always a man short" comment.

I think that Jayne is jealous.



The Real Me

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Friday, June 25, 2004 11:09 PM

ANIMABELLA8


I think Joss might have mentioned in commentary on the DVD somewhere that Jayne takes a liking towards Kaylee. Though, I don't think it's something he'd really persue...but I agree with the others...I think he has a bit of a crush on her.

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Friday, June 25, 2004 11:52 PM

KOHAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AnimaBella8:
I think Joss might have mentioned in commentary on the DVD somewhere that Jayne takes a liking towards Kaylee. Though, I don't think it's something he'd really persue...but I agree with the others...I think he has a bit of a crush on her.



right after kaylee gets shot by the fed, Joss commented on how Jayne was just making fun of Kaylee in the dinning room a second ago... and goes on to explain that part of the Simon/Jayne tension is because of Kaylee.

you know who'd make a funny couple with Jayne? Safron. The smart girl who tries to play everyone and the "large one", possibly the most un-intellengent one in the verse...

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"You know, they say mercy is the mark of a great man.

Guess I'm just a good man.

Well, I'm all right.
"
╮╯▽╰╭

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Saturday, June 26, 2004 1:29 AM

LOSTEARTHMOTHER


Quote:

Originally posted by mencc1701:
This is probably about my second post ever here, but whatever....

Anyways, I'm one of the ones in the camp that believes that Jayne has a crush on Kaylee, and I've been reading\particpating in a debate on this very subject, and I was struck by the absolute lack of evidence of this... I mean, there's lots of subtle things, but nothing really concrete. Can anyone come up with anything?



It would be one of the better character developments, if only for the chaos that a Jayne/Kaylee/Simon triangle would cause.

Not much evidence for it in the few TV episodes. Others have mentioned Jayne hovering outside the operating room, and his jealousy when Kaylee starts her crush on Simon. But Kaylee loves having her hair brushed, and who is going to do that with Inara gone if not Jayne?

Also Jayne and Kaylee are *such* Yin and Yang personalities; maybe they are only whole together?



LostEarth Mother

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Saturday, June 26, 2004 9:35 AM

SHINY4004


You know, the first time I watched the episodes on TV, I didn't notice the Jayne/Kaylee possibility, but when I bought the DVD set, I started seeing that as a HUGE possibility for future episodes (if Joss had ever been able to do them) and as someone else posted, as more tension between Simon and Jayne and just the wackiness that ensues when a love triangle is around!! I would've really LOVED to have seen that explored!! (BTW I am still a big Simon/Kaylee shipper!! )
Maybe that will be more apparent in the BDM???

"Oh I'm going to the special hell."-Mal

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 7:32 AM

FEMALEJAYNE


It's talked about in the commentary. Jayne does have a crush on Kaylee but I don't think he knows how to show it... He is crass and rude, his comments maybe a way of showing her how he feels with out being mushy. This could also explain his behavior towards Simon. Jayne would view Simon as competition and Jayne has been around rich people (without ever having an abundence of money) enough to know that when people get everything they want all the time they begin to expect it without actually enjoying it. Jayne may feel because Simon wouldn't have to work to get Kaylee's affections he wouldn't be worthy of them.
That is my theroy. They really do talk about it on the com though.

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 9:21 AM

SARDONICA


Perhaps part of Jayne's reason for "seelling out" River and Simon to the alliance was more than just the reward--maybe he wanted Simon out of the picture, as he was a threat to his chance for a relationship with Kaylee.

Come to think of it, Jayne does seem to give the doc an extra hard time throughout the series...

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 9:23 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Sardonica:
Come to think of it, Jayne does seem to give the doc an extra hard time throughout the series...


That's because he's in denial about his true feelings for Simon - He bothers me.

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 9:29 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
On the other hand, after Kaylee gets shot by Lawrence, and she's in the sick bay getting operated on...Jayne can be seen, in the shadows above, looking down and anxiously awaiting to see if Lil Kaylee makes it. I think that shot shows alot of how Jayne feels about Kaylee.


My reading of Jayne's fetal position during Simon's life saving work on Kaylee is that he is worried that people will recall that his reaction to Kaylee getting shot was to duck back into the hatch when he had a clear field of fire at Dobson and only made his move when Book had resolved the problem.

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 9:46 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM


While the show gives us nothing more significant than the scene of Jayne watching through the infirmary window while Kaylee is operated on, I highly recommend delving into fanfic with Belasera's "Survival Guide" series. http://firefly.populli.org/archive/5/survivalguide.shtml In fact, I think I'll give it a third re-read right now.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 9:30 PM

WHEDONESQUE


Where exactly in the commentary is that? I've listened to them all but I don't recall Jayne having romantic feelings toward Kaylee being discussed. I'd like to re-listen to that part.

We have done the impossible and that makes us mighty. Mal - Serenity.

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Monday, June 28, 2004 5:41 AM

LIZ


if memory serves, it's mentioned in the Serenity commentary -- right at the point where Jayne is sitting outside the infirmary.

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Monday, June 28, 2004 7:14 AM

FEMALEJAYNE


it's in "Serenity" right after Kaylee has been shot and is in the infrimary I think. You remember when Jayne is kind of like spying to see how she is on the platform looking thrrough the window? It's around there some where.

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Monday, June 28, 2004 10:26 AM

MCNALLY


If memory serves Joss also mentions that Jayne's hovering outside the infirmary window was a last minute addition. It wasn't in the script but he saw the potential for adding that shot and so Adam Baldwin was called to set early.

Looks like it was a pretty good idea he had, if the causing of discussion is an indicator of quality.

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Monday, June 28, 2004 5:29 PM

WHEDONESQUE


Thanks, Liz and FemaleJayne for pointing me in the right direction!



We've done the impossible and that makes us mighty. Mal - Serenity.

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Monday, June 28, 2004 6:16 PM

SPIRITMAN


hopefully it'll all be explained in the movie! along with books's sercets and everythng else

Sam

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Monday, June 28, 2004 7:12 PM

EMBERS


I thought Joss said something in the commentary about Jayne being a little in love w/Kayley,
and altho the watching over her when she is injuried may not be much evidence, I actually took his nastiness at dinner (making fun of her crush on Simon in the crudest possible way) as a sign of jealousy.

Of course I also took Mal calling Inara a whore an indication of his jealousy and frustration, that he could never have a chance at establising any kind of a relationship with her....

So pretty much I thought Joss was going with the whole 'real men can't express themselves to women they care about'.... LOL

Personally I ship Jayne w/River...but I know THAT will never happen!

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Monday, June 28, 2004 7:16 PM

MELEAUX


okay, let me explain it to ya'll.
Jayne likes Kaylee like a little sister. He doesn't like Simon 'cause he's a fancy pants not because hee sees him as a threat.Jayne cares for the crew but doesn't know his own level of loyalty. He's good in a pinch but don't let him try and take over. Book is very important to him because he is a friend AND a holy man. No way ever would Jayne have an interest in River.




She understands, she doesn't comprehend

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Monday, June 28, 2004 10:39 PM

DRE


Although Jayne might have warm feelings to Kaylee, I don't really see evidence that something romantic would elvolve from it. I agree more with the little sister view he'd have to her. I think it's also a way of Joss subtly showing that he does care about people. He may not show it, but he has a heart. He probably feels this way cause Kaylee isn't in a position to "compromise" Jayne in any real way (Mal and Zoe are higher up and he won't break the ruttin' chain of command in front of them), Wash is a weenie to him, it seems, Inara's way beyond his grasp, he may seem to think, and all the passengers are devious and heaps of trouble (in Jayne's PoV).
I think he seems Simon more has an outlet for his dislike of aristocrats and rich flauntees more so than a more animalistic "threat". And the further he can distance himself from Simon, the easier it is to claim the cash for the doctor and his sister -if- it comes down to them being found out. I think he may be more protective of Kaylee against the bad trouble the doctor (and what he represents - Alliance up-right higher-than-thou citizenship) and that he'll end up hurting Kaylee (more of a big brother complex than a romantic one, IMHO). From the flashbacks in Out of Gas, we can assume Jayne comes from an outer world or border world where the Alliance 'isn't there for anyone', or 'screwed up the planet and moved on', and thus he has a distaste for it - and Simon is his outlet, and he wants to protect Kaylee from that. Maybe it's a sentimental hindsight of Jayne that he could always have been more in life than a mercenary dog (I use the term in light of 'loyalty and ferocity'), but he can't change it, and may as well go on fighting the hard universe. Maybe he's just tryin to keep Kaylee alive from the dark creatures of space - people who'd pray on her innocence and naivite' - people like Jayne himself.

On a side note, I agree Jayne buddies up with Book cause he seems as a mystery. And what better place to keep an eye on a potential danger. Book knows more than he says. Jayne doen't like it. Better keep a subtle eye on him.


IKIYO.
DRE

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