GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

POSTED BY: MIKER
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 18:59
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Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:25 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity



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Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:54 AM

MUTT999


Jayne might not like Mal, but he does respect him as a man, and as the Captain.

And don't forget that in Ariel, Jayne has a change of heart and tries to get River and Simon out before the Feds arrive, but he's too late.

Deep down Jayne wants to do the right thing, though sometimes it's hard to tell by what's on the surface.







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Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:04 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity



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Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:27 AM

ZEEK


I think it's still unclear whether he turned on Mal in Serenity or not. I tend to think he took the Fed's offer. I think he gave him a way to cut himself free so that he'd be able to claim he didn't know how he got loose if things didn't work out.

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Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:46 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity



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Thursday, May 29, 2014 3:54 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
I think it's still unclear whether he turned on Mal in Serenity or not. I tend to think he took the Fed's offer. I think he gave him a way to cut himself free so that he'd be able to claim he didn't know how he got loose if things didn't work out.



I'm almost certain this is the case.

Also

Quote:

Jayne might not like Mal, but he does respect him as a man, and as the Captain.


He... kind of doesn't. In the movie Jayne couldn't care less about being threatened with airlocks and at that point he thought Mal was making terrible decisions. Jayne even says that he thinks he'd be a much better captain.

Jayne strikes me as kind of a short-sighted guy who very rarely remembers lessons he's been taught, and is always only in it for the money, but occasionally he gets flashes of a conscience.

And it's that occasional conscience that keeps him just this side of likeable and why he can sometimes be almost loyal but not really.

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Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:06 PM

OONJERAH


Byte: "almost loyal but not really."

Jayne. Yeah, he's a thug & not trustworthy.

He can't stand River; has the hots for Inara; fears & respects Zoe;
is fond of Kaylee.
He felt real bad when the young Mudder took a bullet for him.
"Mal, don't tell the others what I done." He wants/hopes for respect.

Jayne does have some caring feelings, mostly for women. He has low
cunning & isn't real smart. I think he had conflict about betraying Mal,
'cause he wants respect. Leave him alone to make a decision or put
temptation in his way ... he reverts to Crooked thug instantly.
His character is set.




... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Thursday, May 29, 2014 6:34 PM

MUTT999


Quote:

Originally posted by MUTT999:
And don't forget that in Ariel, Jayne has a change of heart and tries to get River and Simon out before the Feds arrive, but he's too late.



Sorry. Made this sound like a fact. It isn't, of course. Just my take on it.





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Thursday, May 29, 2014 8:07 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I don't think Jayne has much respect for the Fed. Weaselly rat, mole, untrustworthy, will say anything, untrained in surviving interrogation. He may have helped the Fed, but he didn't outright free him, because the guy is just untrustworthy, not to mention dumb - on the scale of whom to respect, Mal got the better of the Fed, so that's the one to follow.

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Friday, May 30, 2014 3:29 AM

VERASAMUELS


Jayne is family/crew [according to Mal's definition].

Jayne is more than 'just a thug'.

'Shepherd Book once told me, if you can't do something smart, do something right'.

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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Friday, May 30, 2014 9:53 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity



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Friday, May 30, 2014 2:11 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Jayne is family/crew [according to Mal's definition].

Jayne is more than 'just a thug'.



Family/crew who leaves when the money dries up.

*shrug*

I mean yeah there's a connection, maybe even some affection, stronger than either Jayne or the crew would admit, but Jayne's a mercenary and thug first.

Nothing against him. People do need to make a living. But I've never seen Jayne let warm fuzzies get in the way of any job.

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Friday, May 30, 2014 5:47 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Sometimes I think that Jayne was just throw for a loop when Mal agreed with him right after chatting with Badger. Put him off his game.

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Friday, May 30, 2014 10:15 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity



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Friday, May 30, 2014 11:46 PM

EBFIDDLER


Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:
Why in Serenity when the Alliance mole offered Jayne the reward did Jayne not turn on the captain? He was offered enough to get his own ship; a nice ship. So why did he not take it?



Jayne looks after Jayne's interest. He's not dumb, he has street smarts. He is uneducated and ignorant, but not stupid. I think what it comes down to is that he decided it was not in his best interest to turn on Mal at that point. Dobson said he'd give him money, enough to buy his own ship. But Dobson had done nothing to impress Jayne with his abilities at that stage, had no track record with Jayne of making good on his promises, and Mal, on the other hand, had. After all, when Mal first met Jayne, he turned around a situation in which he was held at gunpoint, and made good on his promises -- bunk to himself, no sad seven, and all that. Jayne already knows that Mal could, and would, turn him away, hurt him, or kill him, if he thought it necessary. (He'd already shut Jayne down and made him leave the table, with little more than a look, earlier in the episode.) My conclusion is that Jayne was unwilling to accept Dobson's vague promises of money and put himself in the hands of a Fed -- why would he want to put himself in the hands of the Feds? It wasn't a better deal than sticking with Mal, doing the job that Mal was doing, and getting paid his share for that job.

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Saturday, May 31, 2014 12:12 AM

BYTEMITE


I think that all of that probably does apply EB, but I think Jayne was also kinda hedging his bets what with sneaking something to Dobson to cut his bindings. That way he had plausible deniability in case it didn't work out.

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Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:17 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity



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Monday, June 2, 2014 7:17 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I think that all of that probably does apply EB, but I think Jayne was also kinda hedging his bets what with sneaking something to Dobson to cut his bindings. That way he had plausible deniability in case it didn't work out.



I seem to remember Jayne's face showing an intense look of interest when asking the Fed agent, "How Much" in the pilot Serenity.


But then the Fed went overboard, promising the universe, and Jayne seemed to scoff and not take him seriously - Jayne seemed to not take him seriously through much of their interchange. Do you think Jayne honestly conjured the Fed was being truthful, trustworthy?

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Monday, June 2, 2014 8:50 PM

DICKKING


Risk Reward. To figure that out you'd have to know what Jayne's values are. And I for one don't want to know what he's thinking...

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Monday, June 2, 2014 8:52 PM

DICKKING


Quote:

Originally posted by ebfiddler:
Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:
Why in Serenity when the Alliance mole offered Jayne the reward did Jayne not turn on the captain? He was offered enough to get his own ship; a nice ship. So why did he not take it?



Jayne looks after Jayne's interest. He's not dumb, he has street smarts. He is uneducated and ignorant, but not stupid. I think what it comes down to is that he decided it was not in his best interest to turn on Mal at that point. Dobson said he'd give him money, enough to buy his own ship. But Dobson had done nothing to impress Jayne with his abilities at that stage, had no track record with Jayne of making good on his promises, and Mal, on the other hand, had. After all, when Mal first met Jayne, he turned around a situation in which he was held at gunpoint, and made good on his promises -- bunk to himself, no sad seven, and all that. Jayne already knows that Mal could, and would, turn him away, hurt him, or kill him, if he thought it necessary. (He'd already shut Jayne down and made him leave the table, with little more than a look, earlier in the episode.) My conclusion is that Jayne was unwilling to accept Dobson's vague promises of money and put himself in the hands of a Fed -- why would he want to put himself in the hands of the Feds? It wasn't a better deal than sticking with Mal, doing the job that Mal was doing, and getting paid his share for that job.



Exactly how I see it.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Also, Jayne may have conjured running a ship was a headache he didn't want to deal with (until later, Train Job, War Stories, etc.) That headache Mal was willing to endure meant Jayne could focus on his tasks, which were his strengths, like shooting, fighting, organizing his bunk.

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