GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Theories/Ramblings On Zoe?

POSTED BY: DELIA
UPDATED: Saturday, June 19, 2004 02:32
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Friday, June 18, 2004 6:15 AM

DELIA


I'm curious to know what other people think about Zoe. She's the character I have probably given the least thought to, but this is Joss, so I'm sure there are depths to be explored.

Thoughts? Opinions? Rambling diatribes written to avoid some form or actual work? Take it away.

___________________________________________
Angel: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
Hamilton: Yeah, but we won't care.

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Friday, June 18, 2004 7:24 AM

PURPLEBELLY


I think Zoe doesn't chuckle often enough, but that's probably my Gina Torres obsession talking

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Friday, June 18, 2004 7:37 AM

CANDALL


I have a really difficult time figuring Zoe out because she's so unflappable. She NEVER shows any revealing emotions. She's definitely the stoic of the group. Interesting that it's not Mal, being the more obvious choice.

I'd be tempted to call her one of those female characters who are given "male" dialogue so that they look like badass power-girls, but that's not the case. Zoe is terse, yes, but when she DOES have something to say, you almost always see the woman peeking out from behind the soldier.

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Friday, June 18, 2004 7:51 AM

HOAGIE


i want to see more of her back story, not just origins, but what brought her to fight for the Browncoats and what was she like in the war?

In The Message, Tracey is amazed that Zoe got married and that she probably "shows emotion and maybe even smiles" now. that's really intriguing to wonder first how she got to be that cold and calculating during the war, and was that just a game face she puts on when times call for it (ie. when rescuing Wash in Safe) or is that really her and is this laughing, smiling, joking Zoe the mask?

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Friday, June 18, 2004 8:15 AM

SHIKSA


I've also wondered about Zoe, just because she seems to have the least backstory. Even with Book, some (very vague) hints are dropped. Zoe seems to have sprung into existence during the war when she became friends with Mal (assuming they didn't know each other before then--but I got the impression that they met while in the army).

I would like to know how Mal and Zoe became friends--what caused them to bond so close that they continue to work together six years after the Browncoat defeat. I'm sure a certain amount of it came simply from serving together, but it seems that there would be one specific moment when they became more or less inseperable.

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Friday, June 18, 2004 8:17 AM

PURPLEBELLY


I think you have to love someone who despises Jayne that much.

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Friday, June 18, 2004 3:50 PM

MER


I don't really give much thought on Zoe other than how she ended up with Wash. I would like to think that Wash invaded how she preceived herself. She was at first a no-emotion type or gal. After those two crazy kids feel in love she was all smily again.
I like to think of it that way...I can't wait for Joss's explanation. ^_^;;

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Friday, June 18, 2004 4:32 PM

THEREALME


I think that Zoe represents the Strength and Determination of Serenity, just as Kaylee represents its Soul.

When something MUST be done, Zoe will do it. Quickly, efficiently, and even ruthlessly if that is called for. And she will give no excuses or complaint.

"Ready?"

"Always!"

I assume that simply surviving Serenity Valley with Mal was enough to bond them for life.

However, she is not a brainless robot for Mal to order around. She regularly tells him when he is wrong or stupid (though almost always in private). And she has no illusions that Mal is perfect. "You are not remembering some of his previous plans." "You have a problem with your brain being missing,"

She is not an emotionless killing machine. She laughed her ass off at Mal's cruel "Kaylee is dead" joke. When she is "off duty" she often smiles, teases others, or gets friendly with her husband.

But when she is "on duty" nothing can shake her, not even being handed Mal's ear.



The Real Me

Got Mudder's Milk?

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Friday, June 18, 2004 4:55 PM

SOUPCATCHER


I have to say that Zoe is my favorite character of the show. I've posted some ramblings on her previously under the favorite character thread, but that was a while back, so here goes
Zoe and Mal share a unique relationship from their shared experiences in the war. There is definitely love between them, but more in the way of a band of brothers type of love than an amorous, erotic kind of love. With these two characters, Joss is showing us different reactions to losing the war for independance. Mal's reaction was to just keep functioning, throw himself into his work and keep flying. It is only with the introduction of River that we see Mal beginning to care more about living and fighting back, rather than just surviving. Zoe, on the other hand, came out of the war looking to live. Her marriage to Wash is one example of this, as is her desire to have children.
It's indicative to me that Zoe chooses Wash as a husband, he's about as far removed from a warrior as you can be. He's the jokester, the fun loving party dude. He may have been interested in Zoe first, but you can rest assured that they wouldn't be married if she hadn't made the choice. And so for Zoe to choose a person like that it makes me think that this is her way of putting the war behind her. One of the saddest scenes for me (and I'm probably reading too much into this ) is in War Stories when Wash goes all Rambo, 'Bastard's not going to get days'. I think that Zoe has a very sad look on her face, as if seeing Wash transition over into her world of violence kills his innocence. She married Wash to learn to be more like him, rather than for him to be more like her.

I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!

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Friday, June 18, 2004 7:25 PM

DBELL46


Soupcatcher:

While I agree with most of your views on Zoe, I think there is a point about her relationship with
Wash people overlook. As Joss originally conceved the character, Wash has "The Right Stuff". When the
flying gets tough, Wash displays a cool "test piolt" competence that I believe Zoe found/finds very attractive.

At some point between his entrance on OoG and Serenity, there was an incident that tested his
flying skill and his display of calm self-control was the spark that ignited her interest in him.

If I'm right, it's a real mistake for Alan to move away from this view of Wash, since this provided
the rationale behind their relationship.



****************************************************
If history is remarkably clear on one point,
it's that people don't learn from history.
****************************************************

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Friday, June 18, 2004 7:42 PM

SOUPCATCHER


That's a great point, dbell. As we see in the pilot episode, Zoe finds Wash's skill sexy as hell.


I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!

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Friday, June 18, 2004 8:03 PM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by dbell46:
If I'm right, it's a real mistake for Alan to move away from this view of Wash,


Even if your thesis is wrong, you're dead right about Tudyk's need for strong direction away from the vaudevillean.

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Friday, June 18, 2004 8:08 PM

PURPLEBELLY


For me the key to Zoe is Whedon's comment that Firefly is as much Grapes of Wrath as it is Stagecoach. To get into Zoe, think Ma Joad.

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Friday, June 18, 2004 9:31 PM

OBSESSED


OK, a couple thoughts on Zoe.
First, I don't think either side of her personality has to be a mask. People are naturally different in different situations. When she can relax, she's cool and funny and all that and when she's in danger she's a hardass. It doesn't mean that one of these isn't her; they are both her.
Second, I think that the reason she and Mal bonded so much was that she was the last of his original platoon, (from the deleted scene 75 with Zoe explaining the war to Simon) so she was the person who he had known and fought with the longest, and therefore probably trusted the most. They also share a hatred of the alliance.
I also think that she wasn't just sad about Wash losing his innocence, although that was part of it. I think she also felt guilty about pulling him into that life.
Last, I have to say that I don't mind Wash being a little less cool under pressure, for two reasons. First, Mal, Zoe, Book, and sometimes Jayne all have the hardass, grace under fire thing going, so I don't feel like he needs it as much. Second, he's still an excellent pilot, even if he is more nervous. He's still damn good at what he does, and I think his skill is what Zoe is attracted to more than his attitude. OK, that's enough ranting for now.............

Book: I'd forgotten - you're moonlighting as a criminal mastermind now.
Simon: No, but I'm thinking about growing a big black mustache. I'm a traditionalist.

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Saturday, June 19, 2004 2:32 AM

DAVEY


Originally posted by dbell46:

At some point between his entrance on OoG and Serenity, there was an incident that tested his
flying skill and his display of calm self-control was the spark that ignited her interest in him.

Either that or he shaved off his dodgy mustache!

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