GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Is Serenity a phallic symbol?

POSTED BY: SUCCATASH
UPDATED: Friday, June 18, 2004 12:05
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Monday, June 14, 2004 7:26 PM

SUCCATASH


I've never thought that Serenity looked like a penis. But people seem to think so over at the AICN message boards.
http://www.aintitcool.com/tb_display.cgi?id=17769#774141
That ship is the most phallic spacship I've seen since Flesh Gordon

A while back I posted a joke thread about a phallic hand-held massager. Is there a resemblance?( http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=11&t=4306)

Is there any merit to these pointed accusations?








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Monday, June 14, 2004 8:19 PM

RKLENSETH


I think people like those posting over at AICN Boards just go and prove Freud's theories correct. Why should we give merit to people who think more with the wrong head rather than the right one?

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Monday, June 14, 2004 10:16 PM

PURPLEBELLY


Exhibiting surprising performance and loved by thousands? One can but hope.

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 1:48 AM

WHEDONESQUE


Duh.

BTW, who really cares?




We've done the impossible and that makes us mighty. Mal - Serenity

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:17 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I can see their point, considering that the "neck" portion of the ship has been stretched out a bit and it is a little more in a straight line from the body of the ship than the original. Let's just hope Serenity herself has not been changed significantly for the film.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:54 AM

HKCAVALIER


I think it has everything to do with the angle from which you view her. I think this angle from the poster is prolly the most penisesque view of the ship. from the side it looks more like a funny bird or a bug than anyone's anatomy and from above, the neck is too skinny.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:24 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


I think the comparison is the result of a sexually repressed individual w/ an overactive imagination.



"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:53 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I think the comparison is the result of a sexually repressed individual w/ an overactive imagination.

I concur.

Tash, how did I *know* you'd be the instigator of this discussion? Always gotta keep us thinkin' don'cha?

And I keep following you into discussions like this, so what does that say about me?

TashChannain

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:59 AM

PIERSNICA


I've always thought it looked phallic, but some amount of that shape is present in all air craft that fly in atmosphere.

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:02 AM

HOAGIE


I think this discussion came up last week when the poster first surfaced. even then i was scratchin my head as to why people would think that Serenity was even remotely phallic in appearance, but, s Wash so aptly put it, 'Some people juggle geese.'

*shrug* i dunno. i just thought the poster was pretty weak tea, but didn't really dwell on it. maybe if i don't sleep for three days, living on Hot Pockets and Jolt then maybe i'll see the resemblance, but i think some people are either trying to start flame threads or they're just veeeeerrry lonely

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:31 AM

MANTICHORUS


Only to Freudian psychologists, and they're a weird bunch...

-------------------------------------------
"BADGER: You think you're better than other people.
MAL: Just the ones I'm better than." -Shindig.
-------------------------------------
"MAL: Gotta say, doctor, your talent for alienatin' folk is near miraculous.
SIMON: Yes, I'm very proud." -Safe.

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:43 AM

HERO


There seems to be a sexual dimension to how Serenity docks with other ships.

Then again, sometimes a ship is just a ship.

H

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 6:04 AM

STARHAND


... preacher, you got
a smutty mind!


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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 6:11 AM

GHOULMAN


Of course it's a phallic symbol. Most things are, but context is important.

You know, a souped up Mustang is a phallic symbol too, but then it looks nothing like a phallus. A baseball game could be said to have lots of erotic symbolism in it (the field is the woman, the bat is the man, the ball is the sperm, etc.) and in case no one really knew this but everything has a sexual symbolism (at least if you are a Freud person).

Serenity does indeed look A LOT like a big "getting harder" penis (at certain angles especially).

But the context of Serenity is not power, speed, or any of the phallic symbolism. Sure, it looks like a big penis (and a horses neck and head... also very sexual) at first glance, but; what it looks like isn't as important as the context when it comes to symbolism. Take that Mustang I mentioned earlier... if it wasn't souped up it looses it's phallic status.

Symbolism is so important in Joss Whedons ' work I felt the need to clarify. It would be nice if someone who actually understands these things comes and makes sure I'm explaining these things well.

Now, about what Serenity truely symbolizes... oh wait, I have a job! *runs*

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:02 AM

HOAGIE


Joss enjoys playing with sexual symbolism, evidenced by Buffy dialogues in particular. when Spike gets the chip in his head in season 4, he goes to bite Willow and finds he can't. what follows is a beautiful dialogue about impotence. something like this:

Willow: Maybe you were just nervous
Spike: I felt fine when we started
Willow: is this your first time?
Spike: NO! i've done this hundreds of times!
Willow: it's me isn't it?

etc. he plays with sex in metaphore but it's so obvious that it makes it funny. Xander's famous misunderstandings in Hush are great examples as well. he goes even farther by having mal straight out say it in Firefly.

Mal: this emergency wouldn't be taking place in someone's pants, would it?

so i think if Joss was going to make a giant space penis he would be a little less vague than people are insinuating

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Tuesday, June 15, 2004 12:04 PM

ANNIK


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Of course it's a phallic symbol. Most things are, but context is important.

You know, a souped up Mustang is a phallic symbol too, but then it looks nothing like a phallus. A baseball game could be said to have lots of erotic symbolism in it (the field is the woman, the bat is the man, the ball is the sperm, etc.) and in case no one really knew this but everything has a sexual symbolism (at least if you are a Freud person).

Serenity does indeed look A LOT like a big "getting harder" penis (at certain angles especially).

But the context of Serenity is not power, speed, or any of the phallic symbolism. Sure, it looks like a big penis (and a horses neck and head... also very sexual) at first glance, but; what it looks like isn't as important as the context when it comes to symbolism. Take that Mustang I mentioned earlier... if it wasn't souped up it looses it's phallic status.

Symbolism is so important in Joss Whedons ' work I felt the need to clarify. It would be nice if someone who actually understands these things comes and makes sure I'm explaining these things well.

Now, about what Serenity truely symbolizes... oh wait, I have a job! *runs*



The only work of Whedon's I know is Firefly, so I can't speak to his overall use of sexual imagery or language. But I do sell sex toys (or should I say, marital aids?); have read extensively on sex, sexuality, and human history; and I've done graphic design for years.

So my $0.02 here is that I don't consider Serenity a phallic symbol. As I said on the thread about the teaser poster, anyone with a penis that looks like that seriously needs to get himself to a doctor.

In artwork, sculpture, and architecture, phallic symbols tend towards the monolithic ... long clean lines. A penis might be rendered extremely anatomically correct, but a *symbol* is not necessarily intended to be quite that obvious.

I think what you're talking about here with the Mustang example are symbols of *virility* ... ones that show off the breeding capabilities of the strong male. I agree that Serenity doesn't accomplish this, either. She's generally regarded as not-pretty; a workhorse. She's not linear-sleek like the phallus-and-virility symbols flown in movies such as "Top Gun", and while she's got some good manoeuvreability (sp?), she can be overtaken by other vessels. She's not even souped up ... Kaylee keeps her going with wire and twine.

Now our friend Jayne, OTOH, constantly shows both symbols through his passion for firearms ... big, long, hard, powerful ... you get the picture. The fact that he can't even visualise what Book means by 'following a different path' with regards to sexual expression is wonderful ... Jayne is a completely sexual person who can't imagine any other person as asexual.

I'd love to know the meaning behind the soft shapes of the interior doors, and the herringbone patterning of the interior partitions ... if anyone comes across some info from the set designers, I'd love to hear it.

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Wednesday, June 16, 2004 2:24 AM

GHOULMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by annik:
SNIP!



Ah! I see where I'm off. Shiny Annik! I basically started off with "of course" then proceeded to say "but"... I write these things too fast.

Quote:

I'd love to know the meaning behind the soft shapes of the interior doors, and the herringbone patterning of the interior partitions ... if anyone comes across some info from the set designers, I'd love to hear it.
Me too. You know, I'm a huge fan of Matt Jeffries. He's famous for designing the Enterprise (the REAL one, not Akiraprise) and had a way with set design (on napkins!) that I find very artful. Oh, and the Enteprrise is a big tit. See the nipple?

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Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:02 AM

DRACOS


Well, we did start off by talking about the comments of people on Ain't It Cool News...

Great site for reviews but the boards are like huge breeding grounds for Trolls.

-Dracos

"Dont ask me silly questions.
I wont play silly games."
-Blaine
--------------------------------------------------
"Somebody tries to kill you you go ahead and try to kill them right on back!"
-Mal
--------------------------------------------------
"I'm gonna kill you with my tea-cup."
-Riddick

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Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:46 AM

GHOULMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by annik:

...
The only work of Whedon's I know is Firefly, so I can't speak to his overall use of sexual imagery or language.

Ummm. Double Meat Palace? The old lady and her, um, pet?

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Wednesday, June 16, 2004 6:34 AM

ANNIK


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:

Originally posted by annik:

...
The only work of Whedon's I know is Firefly, so I can't speak to his overall use of sexual imagery or language.

Ummm. Double Meat Palace? The old lady and her, um, pet?



Haven't noticed yet ... which ep?

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:42 AM

HERO


I agree, and I'm surprised no one has put it quite this way, but here goes.

I find the whole Sernity as a penis just too hard to swallow.

H

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Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:44 AM

EVILTOBZ


rofl

bloody marvellous :)

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Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:01 PM

BADGERSHAT


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
... I think this angle from the poster is prolly the most penisesque view of the ship...



I've just found my new favorite word: "penisesque"

Thanks, HKCavalier!

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:32 PM

ANNIK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
I agree, and I'm surprised no one has put it quite this way, but here goes.

I find the whole Sernity as a penis just too hard to swallow.

H



ODL ... now I'm hurting, hurtin' bad. ROTFLMAO!

... this whole idea reminds me of the scene in "The Sweetest Thing" when their friend Jane (coincidence?) gets her vocal cords ... errr ... stuck on some 'private' jewelry.

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hero- has anyone ever told you that your puns really... er... suck?

Sorry! I just had to stick that in!

Or, er...

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Wednesday, June 16, 2004 2:36 PM

SUCCATASH



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Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:42 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Hero- has anyone ever told you that your puns really... er... suck?

Sorry! I just had to stick that in!

Or, er...



My puns don't suck. I think your just being too hard on me. I'm just not open to that sort of thing. So take your stick and go poke the fellow who started this whole discussion.

Actually this whole conversation is interesting and appropriate. This week I was assigned to argue in the Court of Appeals whether this is protected speech or not and if it is speech at all in the context of a man violating a no contact/civl protection order by giving to his abused ex-wife and daughter. He's arguing free speech. I'm arguing that this is obscene and thus not protected or if protected then the no contact order is a reasonable restriction.

So as you can see this conversation fits right in to my week. That doesn't even count the guy I'm trying to put in jail for dumping his ex-girlfriend's grandmother's ashes into the cat litter box. Odly, I've found its not a theft since the ashes have no tangible value, nor is it abuse of corpse because it human remains, but not a "body".

H

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Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:06 AM

GHOULMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by annik:
SNIP!...

Haven't noticed yet ... which ep?

Oop! I misread your post... I assumed you had seen Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Sorry, though I do recommend all of the Joss & Company work (even for the sexual symbolism. You know, like Willow and Tara casting "spells" together *heh heh*).

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Thursday, June 17, 2004 12:08 PM

ANNIK


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:

Originally posted by annik:
SNIP!...

Haven't noticed yet ... which ep?

Oop! I misread your post... I assumed you had seen Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Sorry, though I do recommend all of the Joss & Company work (even for the sexual symbolism. You know, like Willow and Tara casting "spells" together *heh heh*).



No, I haven't seen more than maybe 2 Buffy episodes. They were both fun, but as I suspected, containing a lot more really-hard-to-explain-to-a-preschooler bits than SF like Firefly. Someday I expect we'll get some on DVD, but probably not until the kids are both in elementary school.



Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:10 PM

INSIGHT SPINNER


No, the ship Mal didn't buy is the phallic (and ugly) one. The angle in that poster is what does it. Rest assured, Serenity is not a beloved pet name for Richard.

insight spinner
__________

Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....

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Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:18 PM

ANNIK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Hero- has anyone ever told you that your puns really... er... suck?

Sorry! I just had to stick that in!

Or, er...



My puns don't suck. I think your just being too hard on me. I'm just not open to that sort of thing. So take your stick and go poke the fellow who started this whole discussion.

Actually this whole conversation is interesting and appropriate. This week I was assigned to argue in the Court of Appeals whether this is protected speech or not and if it is speech at all in the context of a man violating a no contact/civl protection order by giving to his abused ex-wife and daughter. He's arguing free speech. I'm arguing that this is obscene and thus not protected or if protected then the no contact order is a reasonable restriction.

So as you can see this conversation fits right in to my week. That doesn't even count the guy I'm trying to put in jail for dumping his ex-girlfriend's grandmother's ashes into the cat litter box. Odly, I've found its not a theft since the ashes have no tangible value, nor is it abuse of corpse because it human remains, but not a "body".

H



IANAL (get your smutty minds elsewhere ... this means I Am Not A Lawyer) but I think in Canada you can be charged with "interfering with human remains." Perhaps you can find something similar in your books. Good luck!

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Friday, June 18, 2004 12:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


HERO...


NO!!! NO!!! I give up! I can't take this PUNishment anymore- you win!!!



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