GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Kaylee's appeal

POSTED BY: INSIGHT SPINNER
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 13:09
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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:20 PM

INSIGHT SPINNER


I was listening to the special features for a second go-round and heard Kaylee speak about having to gain a little weight (not much, but some people totally obsess over something like 20 pounds. I was reflecting on two things and wondering about Kaylee's appeal.

1. Everybody loves Kaylee. Sure, because she is the essence of positive wonderfulness. She is the heart of Serenity. She is shiny and she makes Firefly shine.

2. But guys -- and I have to think some gals, too -- are totally hot for Kaylee. She was the winner of Elwoodmom's poll, of course.

Is part of Kaylee's appeal the fact that she's got a little curve to her? Please remember in replying that we are a community of all ages here, so don't get crude about this, okay?

Don't make faces.

[yeah, and I know this is probably archived somewhere. --> I'm lazy. I want to hear it from the current active mix on the board. --> I'm also selfish.]

insight spinner
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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:23 PM

PSELUS


I find all the women on Firefly appealing for one reason or another...however I do think Kaylee is the most attractive...and for me it's all about her smile...
the clothing she wears never really shows off her curves so even though I do enjoy a curvy woman I don't think we ever get to see how "curvy" she is.

"Big Damn Heroes sir."

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:23 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by insight spinner:
Is part of Kaylee's appeal the fact that she's got a little curve to her? Please remember in replying that we are a community of all ages here, so don't get crude about this, okay?


For me it's that she's got those curves in the right places Not to mention the fact that her clothing on the show leaves something to the imagination Unlike Aguilera or Britney She's just so cute and cuddly you just have to find her attractive

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:38 PM

BADGERSHAT


Quote:

Originally posted by insight spinner:
I was listening to the special features for a second go-round and heard Kaylee speak about having to gain a little weight (not much, but some people totally obsess over something like 20 pounds. I was reflecting on two things and wondering about Kaylee's appeal.

1. Everybody loves Kaylee. Sure, because she is the essence of positive wonderfulness. She is the heart of Serenity. She is shiny and she makes Firefly shine.

2. But guys -- and I have to think some gals, too -- are totally hot for Kaylee. She was the winner of Elwoodmom's poll, of course.

Is part of Kaylee's appeal the fact that she's got a little curve to her? Please remember in replying that we are a community of all ages here, so don't get crude about this, okay?

Don't make faces.

[yeah, and I know this is probably archived somewhere. --> I'm lazy. I want to hear it from the current active mix on the board. --> I'm also selfish.]

insight spinner
__________

Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....



Here it is plain and simple---

Skinny women are ugly.

Curves on a female body are the greatest thing ever invented, and I take my hat off to whoever or Whoever it was invented 'em.



--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:42 PM

DTT


She's the total package. She's the pure soul, the hot bod, the chaste lover, the not-so-chaste lover and (most importantly) the brilliant mind all in one. Search a space dictionary for "ebullient," and a picture of Kaylee pops up.

Anyway, to answer your question, guys don't really like the Skeletor look -- that's been inflicted by the fashion industry. Fill out those clothes!

"You didn't have to wound that man."
"Yeah, I know. It was just funny."

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:45 PM

JFCAREY2004


Yeah, I don't know what it is about Kaylee, but I do find her the most attractive. I think it's because she seems the most real out of all the characters... and that's an attracitve quality, for me at least.


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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11 PM

BIKISDAD


I agree about Kaylee being the "most real". Inara is obviously more beautiful than Kaylee, but she also falls into the "too good to be true" classification. Kaylee is actually more attractive to most guys (well, me anyway) because she doesn't look like she just stepped off the pages of a fashion magazine.

"That'll put marzipan on your pie plate, bingo!"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:14 PM

GUNHAND


Quote:

Originally posted by BadgersHat:
Quote:

Originally posted by insight spinner:
I was listening to the special features for a second go-round and heard Kaylee speak about having to gain a little weight (not much, but some people totally obsess over something like 20 pounds. I was reflecting on two things and wondering about Kaylee's appeal.

1. Everybody loves Kaylee. Sure, because she is the essence of positive wonderfulness. She is the heart of Serenity. She is shiny and she makes Firefly shine.

2. But guys -- and I have to think some gals, too -- are totally hot for Kaylee. She was the winner of Elwoodmom's poll, of course.

Is part of Kaylee's appeal the fact that she's got a little curve to her? Please remember in replying that we are a community of all ages here, so don't get crude about this, okay?

Don't make faces.

[yeah, and I know this is probably archived somewhere. --> I'm lazy. I want to hear it from the current active mix on the board. --> I'm also selfish.]

insight spinner
__________

Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....



Here it is plain and simple---

Skinny women are ugly.

Curves on a female body are the greatest thing ever invented, and I take my hat off to whoever or Whoever it was invented 'em.



--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne



I'm in full 110% agreement with Jefé here.

Some of the "supermodels" I see getting talked up because they're supposedly so good looking make me wince in pain. Nothing wrong with slim but don't look like a small malnourished child.





~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:14 PM

JFCAREY2004


Yeah! That's exactly what I mean. Although, I think Summer has the greatest facial expressions ever, but Kaylee is just a character that you could actually invision meeting...

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:16 PM

JMUDUKE


I have to agree that her appeal lies in the fact that she is a real person. Not only that but shes also got all of the qualities at least I look for in a girl. Sense of humor, not afraid to be herself, outgoing and shes always looking for the best thing of every situation. I don't know about anyone else, but I hate it when people are negative and try to bring everyone down with them. There's just something about Kaylee that when she's in the room, everything around her is positive. Plus shes got an extremely cute face, and when she was dressed up in Shindig, you got to see the feminine beautiful side of her. She's my favorite

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:20 PM

GUNHAND


Having said that, I have to say that Saffron is my favorite.

Yeah I know, I'm not right in the head.



~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:43 PM

INSIGHT SPINNER


Quote:

Originally posted by Gunhand:
Having said that, I have to say that Saffron is my favorite.

Yeah I know, I'm not right in the head.



~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html



Um, yeah, but...um...it's just that...all of her curves are lethal.

She hasn't married you yet, has she?


insight spinner
__________

Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:08 PM

INSIGHT SPINNER


Quote:

Originally posted by dtt:
She's the total package. She's the pure soul, the hot bod, the chaste lover, the not-so-chaste lover and (most importantly) the brilliant mind all in one. Search a space dictionary for "ebullient," and a picture of Kaylee pops up.

Anyway, to answer your question, guys don't really like the Skeletor look -- that's been inflicted by the fashion industry. Fill out those clothes!

"You didn't have to wound that man."
"Yeah, I know. It was just funny."



Well, I'm one of the old folk here, and I've been skinny, medium and fat, so I know something about what men like. I was just thinking that Kaylee's comfort appeal is made all the more accessible by the casting choice. I mean, this is entertainment, so it's difficult to buy a hardbody selling snuggly.

You are also right about the total package for Kaylee. Jewel is definitely a beautiful girl, but what makes Kaylee most attractive is that outlook on life. As a womnan -- no, as a person, I think it is a master stroke that Joss cast Kaylee with such a deeply shiny soul, and a bit bigger -- it really accomplishes his goal of making these people real and accessible. And it's good for all women to see her character's successful appeal.

insight spinner
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Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:14 PM

INSIGHT SPINNER


Quote:

Originally posted by Jmuduke:
I have to agree that her appeal lies in the fact that she is a real person. Not only that but shes also got all of the qualities at least I look for in a girl. Sense of humor, not afraid to be herself, outgoing and shes always looking for the best thing of every situation. I don't know about anyone else, but I hate it when people are negative and try to bring everyone down with them. There's just something about Kaylee that when she's in the room, everything around her is positive. Plus shes got an extremely cute face, and when she was dressed up in Shindig, you got to see the feminine beautiful side of her. She's my favorite



Shindig is a great example, because you see Kaylee's innocence as she longs for that fluffy, goofy dress and her joy in wearing it. And you see her crushed by the glamour-princes, only to be brought into her own, totally confident, surrounded by potential suitors (if she was a persephone resident), talking ships and engines.

insight spinner
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Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:06 PM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by insight spinner:

Is part of Kaylee's appeal the fact that she's got a little curve to her? Please remember in replying that we are a community of all ages here, so don't get crude about this, okay?



'K, so this is from a middle-aged guy

IMHO Jewel Staite, a twenty-something actress, needed to gain weight as costume to play Kaylee, a teenager; we really need to see those unaired episodes of Wonderfalls to compare/contrast Heidi.

For those of you would don't understand middle-aged guys - girls in their late-teens are magical creatures who restore your faith in human-kind

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 AM

IDEFIX


Quote:

Originally posted by BadgersHat:

Here it is plain and simple---

Skinny women are ugly.

Curves on a female body are the greatest thing ever invented, and I take my hat off to whoever or Whoever it was invented 'em.



just look at Buffy. I'm female so maybe I'm not the right person to ask but I thought she looked pretty good in S1. just on the verge of becoming a woman with curves and all. very nice. and then someone might have told her she should stop eating or somthing. and from season to season the bones came sticking out more and more. by season 5 she was real skinny and I think it didn't look good at all.

Idefix


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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:11 AM

KARENKAY99


sure kaylee is pretty pretty.
but it's what most women have been saying for years, it's her personality that makes her beautiful.

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:08 AM

DTT


Quote:

Originally posted by karenkay99:
sure kaylee is pretty pretty.
but it's what most women have been saying for years, it's her personality that makes her beautiful.



Well, yah. I'm a guy & I said it, too. Inara makes you think, "I'll be in my bunk." Kaylee makes you think, "How can I get in her bunk?"

"You didn't have to wound that man."
"Yeah, I know. It was just funny."

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:10 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


I think Kaylee's appeal is that not only is she pretty, but she seems more down to earth and approachable. She is friendly, funny, and upbeat. Her positive attitude and her seeming innocence draw you to her.

Inara is in my opinion the most beautiful, but her demeanor makes her seem unattainable.

River is just a little to screwy to consider.

Zoe is beautiful, and I must admit I find that strong, independent woman type very hot, but her being married means she is off limits.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:35 AM

MANTICHORUS


Don't ask me! I just know what I feel... (Actually, that's pretty deep for me...)

"BADGER: You think you're better than other people.
MAL: Just the ones I'm better than."
"I'm not an adult! I don't want to create responsible shows with lawyers in them. I want to invade people's dreams." - Joss Whedon

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:15 AM

CYBERSNARK


For me, it's the curves and cuddliness, as well as the mechanical genius. She's like a younger, cuter version of Jan from the Jedi Knight game series. There's just something about a girl in tech gear and engine grease.

Also, there's just something about that sunny disposition. That ability to get past all the pain and cruelty and meanness of existence --especially in one of Joss' universes, which are known for being hell.

Even compared to most "real" people I meet, who are so small and humourless that they make Badger look like Mal. People like Kaylee are rare, not even one in a million, but like one in a generation. They're the one person that makes this Hell worth putting up with, worth fighting for. Kaylee is Hope.

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
River is just a little to screwy to consider.

Now see, I think it's River's youth that takes her out of the running. I like screwy.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:30 AM

DTT


I definitely agree on River being too young. Screwy can be fine, but I'd think of getting involved with a person with a severe mental disorder as inappropriate, too -- taking advantage.

"You didn't have to wound that man."
"Yeah, I know. It was just funny."

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:30 AM

THALOS


This just occured to me. There is a very Gilligan's Island feel to Serenity's women.

Kaylee the cute down to earth attainable "girl next door" very much like Mary-Ann.

Inara the very beautiful, unattainable, "movie-star" = companion woman just like Ginger.

Zoe, the devoted wife who has issues with her husband, similar to Mrs. Howell.

Of course the wrench in this theory is River who is completly different from any member of Gilligan's island, or could we consider her Gilligan's crazy sister

"Whoa, good Bible."

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:49 AM

DTT


Quote:

Originally posted by Thalos:
This just occured to me. There is a very Gilligan's Island feel to Serenity's women.

Kaylee the cute down to earth attainable "girl next door" very much like Mary-Ann.

Inara the very beautiful, unattainable, "movie-star" = companion woman just like Ginger.

Zoe, the devoted wife who has issues with her husband, similar to Mrs. Howell.

Of course the wrench in this theory is River who is completly different from any member of Gilligan's island, or could we consider her Gilligan's crazy sister

"Whoa, good Bible."




There's also the fact that Mrs. Howell was not a drop-dead hottie like Zoe.

"You didn't have to wound that man."
"Yeah, I know. It was just funny."

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:41 AM

PSELUS


Quote:

Originally posted by Gunhand:
Having said that, I have to say that Saffron is my favorite.

Yeah I know, I'm not right in the head.





oooooooh yeah...
Saffron is by FAR the most attractive female to be on the show...I can't really figure out why...but I honestly think it's because she's got the curves AND she shows them off...but she's not the typical "supermodel" type girl either...
then Kaylee would be second...I gotta say...I like the redheads

"Big Damn Heroes sir."

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:34 AM

ALTA


I have to agree that Kaylee's appeal is a package deal, looks, personality, shiny attitude.
I would also like to say how happy I am that Joss chose women who look like real women for Firefly. As a female myself, I am sooo tired of seeing 5'10", 105 pound genetic misfits(or maybe they're aliens) plastered all over the place.

*****************************
There's no place I can be
Since I found Serenity

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:34 AM

DARKHOOD


Kaylee is just too cute not to love. Plus the fact that she is pretty hoy too.

________________________________________________________________________

Mal's on the ground, about to get speared by Crow. A shot rings out. Crow is kneecapped.

Mal: Nice shot.

Jayne: I was aiming for his head.

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:40 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Pselus:

Saffron is by FAR the most attractive female to be on the show...I can't really figure out why...



But don't forget Patience is the one with half a dozen guys hanging 'round - never underestimate the attractive qualities of a full wallet

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:53 AM

SKYDANCE


I've never been hot for Kaylee.

That being said, I love her for her smile ... not just her smile, but the way her entire face lights up. I want to pull her into my arms and keep her safe forever.

"girls in their late-teens are magical creatures who restore your faith in human-kind"

Yep. Although I always thought of Kaylee as a 20-something woman who came-of-age and found the secret to keeping her innocence. Or maybe just her Faith.

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:09 PM

NRKANGEL


I'm sure most of you agree that every one of the women of Firefly is not only beautiful, but also exceptional in her own way. However, I'm most fond of Kaylee for reasons that have nothing to do with her curves. (Look, I'm a guy with a healthy appreciation for curves, but when everyone is gorgeous, looks become a little like background noise.)

I like the way Kaylee's so optimistically unreserved in her convictions that she just shines! When bad things happen or setbacks occur, she's still positive and energizing. Her smile is so open and beautiful it's like sunlight on a pink rose.

Then there's the innocence thing. In "Shindig" she's talking about the buffet to a group of debs and says "Some kind of melted cheese." Then she makes this little vague pointy gesture that I fell madly in love with. Sometimes she's like a kitten batting at a string...

To top it all off, I really have this thing for women who are brilliant. (I still have the most amazing crush on the Scully character in X-files because smart is damned appealing...) any woman who can tear apart a motor and keep a relic like Serenity flying is not your run-of-the-mill TV beauty.

ok...that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Stay shiny...the Alliance is watching us...

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:34 PM

HAPLO721


I agree with just about everything that's been said here, but I just wanted to say that the strawberry scene sealed the deal for me.

Mmmm... Strawberry Kaylee... *drooling*

Early: You ever been raped, Kaylee?
Kaylee: You know, it's funny you should mention that... ever heard of the Fox network?

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


No doubt that Jewel is one fine looking woman. That helps. But what brings Kaylee so much appeal is her positive outlook on people. Naive, perhaps, but she seems to just radiate good vibes. That smile could melt ...well, it could melt stuff that's really cold.

As was mentioned before somewhere else, the comparison of Kaylee to Willow.... made me think. In OiS, Kaylee was confronted by the not so nice Jubal and his intentions to hurt and then kill her.( booo! ) But would anyone expect Joss to put Kaylee through such a trial as Willow where her entire outlook on life changes ? And if so, would anyone approve ?

I for one, would not, and hope Joss leaves Kaylee as the sweet, shiny, prarie harpy she is.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:33 PM

MENELUIN


Wow... you know, after a bad day (which was much inclusive of some bad luck with men ), this was a pretty nice post to read.

The old expression "nice guys finish last" also applies to women. I'm not just saying this cause I'm a Kaylee wannabe, but it's the truth. She's so darn sweet, and you feel the most for her when things aren't going well with Simon, or when she is put in danger.

Which leads me to one aspect that hasn't been mentioned yet. I've discovered this one because I'm always the "cute" girl... the one that has many male friends. The one that is always like a sister. Kaylee has little sister syndrome written all over her. Most men would think of her as a little sister and get very protective of her. Heck, they'll even admit she's absolutely one hundred percent adorable, but not one of 'em will think of considering her as a date, or a mate. Furthermore, a woman that wears her heart on her sleeve (or in her eyes when she looks at a man) has very little mystery. Inara does her best to shroud many things about her life and lifestyle, along with her affections for Mal. With Kaylee, you can tell she's crazy about Simon just by watching her watch him. A lot of men don't like that.

It doesn't really make sense to me. A lot of men don't seem to like a woman that says whatever comes to her mind, even if none of it's crude, and most of it's cute. It's like there has to be some mystery there. In the real world, if you go about saying what you think and feel the way Kaylee does, you're going to get a lot of guys for sure... and they'll all want to be like a big brother. They'll all act the way Mal acts toward Kaylee. Ever notice how there's no chemistry there, of course, but instead of losing patience with her like you think he might, he gets very defensive and protective of her. Even if she seems to say something about herself and it's negative, he'll speak up--remember when she was describing how River had perfect aim? She'd just started the story and said how scared she was and she couldn't use the gun, and Mal interrupted right away to comfort her and to tell her it was ok. He really wouldn't do that for anyone else.

Oh well, I suppose this has turned into a half-rant. But yeah, those of us that are Kayleesque quickly learn that there are down sides to being "the cute one" with just a few extra pounds. Suddenly you're everyone's little sister, you like at least one unattainable guy for a long amount of time, and everyone's hoping for your success with him whether they say it or not.

Oh, and one more thing about Kaylee that is very realistic--she has a positive outlook on things. When she gets upset, everyone pays attention. Mal rarely misunderstands or misinterprets the importance Kaylee places on things. When she gets mad at hime (the whole "sheep on hind legs" comment), he is genuinely displeased with himself. And of course, she likes Simon... because in that way, he's the one that needs the most help. He's intuitive enough and intelligent enough to fix people's bodies, but completely misses what's in front of him. And to the Kaylee type, that is so_completely_sexy, not to mention dangerous.

One other advantage to Kaylee's archetype as the cute one is that she's actually allowed to go around having crushes on unattainably sexy doctors. I mean, it's Kaylee, so she's cute. She's allowed to do that. Most others would look a fool in her position, but she is adorably persistent.

If only guys in real life would find that attractive.

~~~~~~~~
http://www.thepaperbackwriter.com
AIM: KingArthursPiano

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:02 PM

INSIGHT SPINNER



Quote:

Originally posted by Alta:
I have to agree that Kaylee's appeal is a package deal, looks, personality, shiny attitude.
I would also like to say how happy I am that Joss chose women who look like real women for Firefly. As a female myself, I am sooo tired of seeing 5'10", 105 pound genetic misfits(or maybe they're aliens) plastered all over the place.

*****************************
There's no place I can be
Since I found Serenity


editing -- wow, that wasn't even english!!
I hear you, ALTA. Why do you think I started this thread? All of us Browncoat women are different degrees OF smart and optomistic -- i mean, we believe in a future for FF -- so what everyone likes about Kaylee applies to us all to some degree.

I love all the guys saying about curves: "That ain't it at all." Love that!

insight spinner
__________

Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....

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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:49 PM

ANNIK


Quote:

Originally posted by insight spinner:
Quote:

Originally posted by Alta:
I have to agree that Kaylee's appeal is a package deal, looks, personality, shiny attitude.
I would also like to say how happy I am that Joss chose women who look like real women for Firefly. As a female myself, I am sooo tired of seeing 5'10", 105 pound genetic misfits(or maybe they're aliens) plastered all over the place.

*****************************
There's no place I can be
Since I found Serenity



I hear you, ALTA. Why do you think I started this thread? All of us Browncoat women are different degrees smart and optomistic -- i mean, we believe in a future for FF -- so what everyone likes about Kaylee applies to some degree to us.

I love all the guys saying about the curves "That ain't it at all." Love that!

insight spinner
__________

Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....



I think all the women on FF are excellent role-models for my six-year old daughter ... even River, LOL!

But Kaylee is her favourite. Why? Quote: "She's a genius. And she's really nice." Kaylee is the kind of girl my daughter would love to follow around all day, the kind of girl she'd draw pictures for to hang in her berth.

And on guys and curviness: Yay! Thank you all for speakin up! I won't say where (because of the young'uns on this site), but the first online erotica I ever wrote was a story about a curvy woman ... I was gobsmacked at the number of men who dropped me an email thanking me for writing a story that had a real woman ... as in, 'real women have curves'.

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:07 AM

INSIGHT SPINNER


Quote:

Originally posted by annik:
Quote:

Originally posted by insight spinner:

insight spinner
__________

Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....



I think all the women on FF are excellent role-models for my six-year old daughter ... even River, LOL!

But Kaylee is her favourite. Why? Quote: "She's a genius. And she's really nice." Kaylee is the kind of girl my daughter would love to follow around all day, the kind of girl she'd draw pictures for to hang in her berth.


Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.


Annik, I'm surprised you could even read my post -- I have edited it, 'twas sleepy.

My girls are 7 (twins) and while they haven't seen a FF ep yet they have seen some snips of the special features and I am very much looking forward to them seeing the show a few years from now for the same reasons. I know they are going to love it AND learn a lot about relationships from it. Loyalty, honor, sacrifice, devotion, dedication, trust...and all that.

FYI, because they haven't seen much TV/movies since they were around 2.5, they are more affected by images than other kids, so I know they won't be ready for FF until a bit older. It's also a hoot that my kids -- named after DS9 and B5 characters -- don't really watch TV.

insight spinner
__________

Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:06 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Meneluin:
In the real world, if you go about saying what you think and feel the way Kaylee does, you're going to get a lot of guys for sure... and they'll all want to be like a big brother. They'll all act the way Mal acts toward Kaylee.



Has it ever been established that Kaylee doesn't have non-possessive sex with Mal and Jayne on a regular basis? They're all good rural folk who know what Nature is about.

I realise that won't be the received opinion of this thread, but this is the Internet, home of the urban sophisticate

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:55 AM

DECIDENDI


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Quote:

Originally posted by Meneluin:
In the real world, if you go about saying what you think and feel the way Kaylee does, you're going to get a lot of guys for sure... and they'll all want to be like a big brother. They'll all act the way Mal acts toward Kaylee.



Has it ever been established that Kaylee doesn't have non-possessive sex with Mal and Jayne on a regular basis? They're all good rural folk who know what Nature is about.

I realise that won't be the received opinion of this thread, but this is the Internet, home of the urban sophisticate



I haven't posted before but thought that I would reply to this.

Mal did say in Our Mrs Reynolds that it had been a long time since anyone but him had taken a hold of his plough. Anyway I don't think Mal sees Kaylee in that way.

As for Jayne I think he might had a little crush on Kaylee but he knows that Mal would kill him if he ever did anything about it!

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:46 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Meneluin:
She'd just started the story and said how scared she was and she couldn't use the gun, and Mal interrupted right away to comfort her and to tell her it was ok. He really wouldn't do that for anyone else.

Actually, he'd probably be accepting of the same from the doctor ("do no harm") or the Shepherd ("Thou shalt not kill"). Though, Jayne not wanting to kill someone would be kinda counter-productive.

Scene'd probably be funny as hell, though.

Quote:

Mal rarely misunderstands or misinterprets the importance Kaylee places on things.


[Jayne voice]
Catalyzer?
[/Jayne voice]



Quote:

If only guys in real life would find that attractive.
Some of us do. Apparently enough of us that every "cute girl" I've met is already taken by some suitably clueless 6-7 foot tall male-model type.

It's like I'm living on a FOX show or something.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:22 AM

ANNIK


Quote:

Originally posted by annik:
I think all the women on FF are excellent role-models for my six-year old daughter ... even River, LOL!

But Kaylee is her favourite. Why? Quote: "She's a genius. And she's really nice." Kaylee is the kind of girl my daughter would love to follow around all day, the kind of girl she'd draw pictures for to hang in her berth.


Annik, I'm surprised you could even read my post -- I have edited it, 'twas sleepy.

My girls are 7 (twins) and while they haven't seen a FF ep yet they have seen some snips of the special features and I am very much looking forward to them seeing the show a few years from now for the same reasons. I know they are going to love it AND learn a lot about relationships from it. Loyalty, honor, sacrifice, devotion, dedication, trust...and all that.

FYI, because they haven't seen much TV/movies since they were around 2.5, they are more affected by images than other kids, so I know they won't be ready for FF until a bit older. It's also a hoot that my kids -- named after DS9 and B5 characters -- don't really watch TV.

insight spinner



LOL! I know what you mean. We live in the north in Canada (Edmonton), and while we get about five channels without cable, they're generally far from clear. We'd much rather have high-speed internet than cable, anyhow ... so most of what we watch is on DVD.

The kids have been watching SF since they were wee ones out of the chute ... but I know that this sometimes surprises other parent's in the area because their kids are still watching cartoon stuff. Our kids love cartoons, too, but they also love other kinds of shows.

Austin Powers is quite popular. Also, Paint Your Wagon is great for the songs. Then there is Fred Astaire in "Royal Wedding" ... the dance scene on the walls and ceiling have the kids laughing so hard their tummies hurt.

We're one of those 'active viewing' types of families ... even if I'd rather not watch something, I'm still in the same room (reading, on my computer) while the kids are watching a movie. I'm often surprised at how thoughtful and deep their questions are, and I try to give them answers of similar depth. Our kids have no lack of reasoning ability, even now, LOL!

... and I love that you named your kids after TV shows they haven't even watched. Cool!

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:30 AM

MENELUIN


Not enough of you... perhaps it's just my age (23), but most of the guys go for the Inara types... hot and mysterious. They seem to be pretty darn intimidated by an honest and emotional person and would prefer someone less cheery and more subdued.

I'm hoping that when they get to the settle down age (hopefully soon?) they'll be more inclined to go for the Kaylee type.

The other option is to go for the Tracey type... the adorable guy that might not normally look at you, but will end up hurting you BIG TIME if you let anything happen, because he's just not ...... ready, or all there... or able to be.

Sometimes... one can only hope.


//Apparently enough of us that every "cute girl" I've met is already taken by some suitably clueless 6-7 foot tall male-model type.

It's like I'm living on a FOX show or something.



~~~~~~~~
http://www.thepaperbackwriter.com
AIM: KingArthursPiano
E-mail/MSN: sgtpprsgrl@hotmail.com

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 6:49 AM

HENDLEFE


According to Freud, you like her because she reminds you of your mom.

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 7:32 AM

FIREFLEW


Well, my name makes my ideas fairly obvious :). I guess the curvy element is a factor, but I guess it's her sunny disposition and personality that I like her most for.

Quote:

I agree about Kaylee being the "most real". Inara is obviously more beautiful than Kaylee, but she also falls into the "too good to be true" classification. Kaylee is actually more attractive to most guys (well, me anyway) because she doesn't look like she just stepped off the pages of a fashion magazine.

"That'll put marzipan on your pie plate, bingo!"



I can certainly agree with this point of view - whilst Inara is incredibly attractive, there is the idea that she is almost too attractive - by no means a bad thing, but not always the best thing.

Quote:

That being said, I love her for her smile ... not just her smile, but the way her entire face lights up. I want to pull her into my arms and keep her safe forever.


Her face is just so expressive - that "sheep on hind legs" comment, she has this hurt face which is very sad.... but when she is happy, she is a beacon of joy, which is again another facet of the jem that is Jewel/Kaylee.

I liked that last sentance :D.

Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:57 AM

DTT


Quote:

Originally posted by Hendlefe:
According to Freud, you like her because she reminds you of your mom.



According to Freud, everything reminds you of a)your mom or b)eating poop.

"You didn't have to wound that man."
"Yeah, I know. It was just funny."

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:27 PM

ZOID


Howdy, Meneluin and gentlefolk!

Now is the time for zoid to talk about women (and probably pis... er, alienate everyone).

When I was a teenager, all my friends were so keen to lose their 'sainthood' -- what we called male virginity at my school, back at the dawn of Time -- that they would sleep with any female who'd lie still for the requisite 30 seconds. It made you a man.

I got my opportunity to shed the tag one night at a party, with a girl who had just helped a couple other guys lose the onus. She wasn't drunk or high, she was really popular and pretty. Of course, since she was the first girl I'd ever seen naked outside the pages of Playboy, I thought she was the most beautiful girl I'd ever seen. Though I really couldn't tell you what her face looked like, reminiscing today, I still have a vivid mental image of her breasts; like I said, she was the first naked female I'd ever seen.

Here's the funny part: Even though she was a 'sure thing', I didn't lay a hand on her. I wanted my first time to be for love. Go ahead, laugh it up. About two remorse-filled years later, at the age of nearly 17, I met, wooed and won my first girlfriend, who was an 18-year old out-of-stater going to U of H on a majorette scholarship. So my first time -- and hers -- did turn out to be for love. We had a five year love affair that thankfully didn't include marriage; I'd have ruined both of our lives.

I joined my first band just shy of my 18th birthday, and over the course of the next decade, slept with an obscene number of women. I 'grappled' (sure wasn't 'making love') with women of every age, race, creed and socionomic background, all across the Southern and Western United States, Great Britain, Hawaii, Guam, New Guinea (just missed Australia), the Philippines and Japan. I didn't even have any pickup lines: the women did, and they always worked. Some might think that I'd be proud -- or ashamed -- of this 'accomplishment'.

Strangely, I'm neither proud nor ashamed. Those women wanted something from me, something only I could give them: they wanted to rub themselves against the animal inside me. At that time in my life, I would never refuse a lady anything. And I did treat them like ladies, beautiful and sexy. I did sleep with oh, say, a third of them, that were physically gorgeous by any measure you'd care to use. I also slept with a few that could only be described as 'coyotes'. Ask Gunhand the difference between a 'wolf' and a 'coyote'; I'll bet he knows. But the vast majority were just ordinary, run-of-the-mill, healthy and fit young women (and twice, bone-chillingly, mature-looking girls who snuck into the club with fake IDs).

But I never really got used to waking up with a stranger, no matter how beautiful, or fun, or exotic she was. I always felt empty and alone afterward (poor zoid). So, even though my first wife didn't mind what I did when I was on the road for weeks at a time (it was a necessary part of the job and being successful), it took the heart out of my devotion. I was wrong. It was a mistake. We divorced and breaking my promise -- that it would be forever -- was the worst defeat I have ever suffered. I had failed her, and more importantly, I had failed myself.

I went without sex for a full year. I couldn't make an emotional connection and as when I was a teen, I wanted love or nothing. I got better. I got back in touch with who I really was. There was lots about myself that I wished I could change, that I just didn't like -- and it's still true today -- but that I knew were always going to be a part of my nature until I stop drawing breath. I accepted those things, I acknowledged them; I accentuated the positives and deemphasized the negatives to the extent that I could. I was okay being me, I was okay being alone. In fact, I got to the point where I was really good at being alone; I was terrific. (Okay, let's not get carried away here, zoid. Not having sex for a year, I got into more fist fights than I had since I was sixteen. That might float in the Army, but it doesn't in the Air Force, where the officers do all the fighting while the enlisted just salute smartly as the O-grades takeoff and land.)

So I was terrific. Then I met my wife, Kayley. We have been married 16 years now, and I have never once touched, kissed, chatted up or even harmlessly flirted with another woman. I learned my lesson the first time around: I will not break my word to her, or to myself again. My wife has given the world 3 brilliant and loving children, 2 sired and all parented by me; she has the 'matronly' figure to prove it.

She's dreadfully self-conscious about it, and the media depictions of Dachau refugees and what appear to be preteen boys with vaginae in designer clothing on the runways of Paris and New York aren't helping. She thinks that's what men want.

I think my wife is the most beautiful woman who ever lived, and that God must truly love me, to have made her crazy enough to stay with me for all these years. Y'all only think I'm a pain in the ass; she's got the proof.

I could go on, and on, and on. I usually do, in person, and people genuinely despise me for it. No, really. So if we ever meet, don't ask me about my wife, unless you've got a couple hours to waste listening to me blather on.

Speaking of which, why am I going on at such length about bullsh*t nobody gives a rat's ass about? Because, this is for you, Meneluin. If others read it, fine. If others think it's quaint, beautiful or hogwash, fine. It's not for them. It's for you.

I can feel that you are really hurting and confused, and maybe feeling like you're just not a good fit for the world. But you are. You are sufficient.

Learn who you are; don't define yourself by the world's standards. Be honest with yourself; what are your strengths and what are your weaknesses? Build on your strengths; hone them or grow them, as necessary. Avoid situations where your weaknesses take primacy (I have to stay out of bars and away from beautiful women; I have no defenses). Once you've reached an honest if uneasy truce with your true nature, you'll be ready to be with someone else. Just remember: in the same way that you find it disheartening that all the guys want Inara-types -- not because of who they are, just because of how they look -- it is also disheartening for the average Jose's when all the girls only want Simon-types (iterative reasoning). Stop trying to be bright and sunny to please some guy who doesn't even know you exist. Be who you are and pay attention to all the guys you come into contact with. I promise you'll find someone you resonate with; two plucked strings playing not the same note, but a harmonious chord.

You may now all return to less serious discussions. Here's a start: I have always preferred Saffron. She's the 'heaviest' girl on the show; Kaylee is skinny compared to her. In OMR, after she's "readied herself" and we see her from behind? That girl has got some serious zaftig going on around her waist and hips. Reminds me of my wife: I sincerely hope I never meet Ms. Hendricks in person, and that's the highest sexual compliment a woman will ever get from me.

(knowing he will take a lashing for this, at least in some quarters, zoid hits the "Post My Response" button, anyway, because that's precisely the kind of fool he is)


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"History may say I saved River; but it's not like that. No, that's not it at all. I saved my sister."

- Simon Tam, M.D., husband and father of 4, Jiangyin; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:15 PM

RAW53X


i like all the girls on ff. river is one of my personal faves. she might be crazy buy most people's standerds. but she is the most inteligent on the ship. she just see things diffrentley. to most.

kaylee is a girl who enjoys life. and all it has to offer.

inara is the stuning because of her grace an nature.

zoe has a strent that draws you in.

but the one person you have forgot to mention is Mrs rennolds aka brigit aka saffron. she is hot

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:13 PM

WHOODAHN


Quote:


You may now all return to less serious discussions. Here's a start: I have always preferred Saffron. She's the 'heaviest' girl on the show; Kaylee is skinny compared to her. In OMR, after she's "readied herself" and we see her from behind? That girl has got some serious zaftig going on around her waist and hips. Reminds me of my wife: I sincerely hope I never meet Ms. Hendricks in person, and that's the highest sexual compliment a woman will ever get from me.



Zoid,
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I've been married for 26 years and have never strayed from my wife so I can't relate to everything you have shared with us. I do think that as we get older we gain the wisdom to realize that a loving relationship is the goal. The bloom of youth and the fury of first love are wonderful things but they don't last forever. My wife has matured in 26 years and doesn't turn anyones head but mine, but she is still a beautiful woman to me. She looks like Saffron will in 20 years. When I look at my wife I see her as she is now and as the tall, sexy redhead she was 26 years ago.

I once read that a good marriage is like a campfire. A campfire will start out with a blaze and give off a lot of light, heat and is a wonderful, beautiful, mesmerizing thing but then the kindling burns away and the fire starts to go out. You need to add bigger logs and constantly fan the fire to keep it going. It takes a lot of work and attention. Eventually the logs will develop a deep burning fire that will last a long time. It's not as pretty or flashy as the kindling but it's a warm comfortable heat.

There is one thing about Kaylee and River that I don't think has been mentioned. When I see them I think of the daughters I never had.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:35 PM

THECLAPS


I agree with whoever brought up the Saffron point. Weight = Curves = good.

All you people saying she's so pure and embodies goodness, that's all nice and grand but come on! Jewel Staite is HOT. When you browse the net surfing for porn, you don't go: "Wow, she'd make a great wife..." *fap**fap**fap**fap*

So, in the interest of objective obejectification, Jewel Staite and Saffron have the nicest curves = nice eye candy. What was to seperate them on the show from Inara, was that Inara represented a *different* kind of beauty. Her skills at "companionship" means her valuable social skills, which is why she's highly sought after.

But back to being a pig, I think if she put on a few pounds in the right places, she could pull off a Kaylee. Note: certain outfits work with certain body-types. Kaylee would NOT look as stunning as Inara in her outfits.

Anyways, lets continue my equation

Weight = Curves = good
No weight = no curves = bad
Too much weight = one big curve = bad

It's all about moderation folks

To turn it around, I don't think it works the same for us men though. I think ultra-cut is the preferred image when it comes to women idealizing men. Just saying, we got the short end of the satisfaction-stick.

EDIT: For the sake of actually fully answering the thread. Kaylee's appeal: None of the bogus dancing around shit that Inara does. Not the vague idealization of "purity," but she has *Honesty* in action and response, and hell if that doesn't make things simple, and enjoyable.

PS: I read over my post and went: "wow, that's disjointed". You'll have to tough it.

Ain't. We. Just.

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Friday, May 21, 2004 5:28 PM

INSIGHT SPINNER


Quote:

Originally posted by Meneluin:
Not enough of you... perhaps it's just my age (23), but most of the guys go for the Inara types... hot and mysterious. They seem to be pretty darn intimidated by an honest and emotional person and would prefer someone less cheery and more subdued.

I'm hoping that when they get to the settle down age (hopefully soon?) they'll be more inclined to go for the Kaylee type.


Sometimes... one can only hope.

~~~~~~~~
http://www.thepaperbackwriter.com
AIM: KingArthursPiano
E-mail/MSN: sgtpprsgrl@hotmail.com



Meneluin,

Where you are is where you are -- I can't make the folks around you appreciate you for your light and not focus on your physical self, but I can assure you that there are those who focus on the interior beauty as well as or even instead of the exterior.

My husband prefers heavier women. I met him after I had gained a good deal of weight due to a hormonal condition. He said he would never have spoken to me if I had been my "normal" thin self. My brother married a woman who can only be described medically as grossly obese. She is full of love and wonderful. She recently had "the surgery", because she really is quite large and needs to reduce the burden on her body to effectively care for herself and her family, but My brother didn't need her to be thin to love her.

And then there is Zoid's shiny tribute told all for you.

Look, we are just strangers on a board who love a show together, but still you are loved by us. If you embody the cheery wonderfulness of our Kaylee, how can we help but love you? Trust that the beauty of who you are will outshine the limited tastes of those around you.




insight spinner
__________

Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....

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Friday, May 21, 2004 7:18 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Meneluin:
Not enough of you... perhaps it's just my age (23), but most of the guys go for the Inara types... hot and mysterious. They seem to be pretty darn intimidated by an honest and emotional person and would prefer someone less cheery and more subdued.

I'm hoping that when they get to the settle down age (hopefully soon?) they'll be more inclined to go for the Kaylee type.

The other option is to go for the Tracey type... the adorable guy that might not normally look at you, but will end up hurting you BIG TIME if you let anything happen, because he's just not ...... ready, or all there... or able to be.

Sometimes... one can only hope.


//Apparently enough of us that every "cute girl" I've met is already taken by some suitably clueless 6-7 foot tall male-model type.

It's like I'm living on a FOX show or something.



~~~~~~~~
http://www.thepaperbackwriter.com
AIM: KingArthursPiano
E-mail/MSN: sgtpprsgrl@hotmail.com




In my opinion (and experience), it is when you stop looking that you find someone. Just have patience and let life happen, it isn't a race.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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