GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Aliens and technobabble-

POSTED BY: SEVENPERCENT
UPDATED: Thursday, May 13, 2004 17:48
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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:44 PM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Actually, I don't worry about it too much. It's science fiction, and I'm way more interested in the characters and the stories than all the techical details.


Delia posted this on another thread, the one about FTL vs. no FTL, and it got me to thinking -Has the development of technology that can actually do the things we once dreamed of taken away from what originally made Sci-fi great? - Here's my thoughts, forgive me if I ramble, I didnt intend to post today so I didnt get my thoughts organized ahead of time -

Originally, in some of the earliest and greatest Sci-fi, the science of the thing isnt what really mattered, it was the stories that counted- Think back to the stories that the authors you read today were influenced by- War of the Worlds, The Time Machine, 1984- HG Wells didnt write The Time Machine with an eye toward what was possible, he wrote it to comment on the nature of human relations - And it shouldnt be read with the goal of figuring out whether or not time travel is possible- Same with Orwell and Big Brother, the focus is on what it means to be a person in a totalitarian society- I've read the book that inspired Blade Runner, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, and the heart of the book wasnt whether AI was possible, it was about the nature of the soul -

What I'm getting at is that while I think the original Star Trek got it right, the later versions and the modern Sci-fi novel have gotten it all wrong- Aliens, tech, and digital animation have taken the place of human interaction and turned Sci-fi- true Sci-fi - into a freak show- Have a problem in space? Wait for the next gizmo to fix it or alien to swoop in and save the day- Remember what made the first Star Wars trilogy great? It was a human story, about finding who you were, and whether goodness existed in everyone- The latest ones? Slap some Jamaican-sounding aliens in there, who needs to develop characters?
Look at ST:TNG vs. Firefly - In OOGas, the ship breaks down, and there's nothing the crew can do about it- Does someone come to the rescue? Yep, a very bad, bad guy; which causes our beloved captain to get gutshot - True, the ending works out well for FF's crew, but how would ST have dealt with it? In the nick of time, someone on the crew would have figured out how to covert a gizmo (probably something with neutrinos), or called in aliens to help- Now, I grew up watching STTNG, so I'm not saying this to mock the show, I've seen every episode a ton of times-But not once did they ever really build the suspense like FF- With FF, you really feel for the people and what the episodes are trying to say about human interaction (how does Simon put it, out in space how you treat others is where it matters most)-

I guess what this rambling post is getting at is that you dont need aliens and you dont need technobabble to have good Sci-fi- What you need are good stories- It shouldnt matter how a 'gravity drive' works, or whether or not Serenity can go FTL- That stuff is there for the setting, it's not the story[/]- I loved B5, but I didnt give a damn how hyperspace worked, because that wasnt a character, it was just a setting with a neat special effect- I worry that if the BDM hits and Joss doesnt go with the conventions of modern, alien-oriented or realistic techno sci-fi, that the BDM is gonna bomb, because people have forgotten what matters- Let's all make sure we remember what counts-


------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:52 PM

RELFEXIVE


Yup

Mal: "We're not gonna die. We can't die, Bendis. You know why? Because we are so... very... pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die."

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:00 PM

CORWYN


While I agree with much of what you say, I do think that how things work matters. In only as much as it needs to be internally consistent. Serenity's space drive is much more consistent than Star Treks or even Babylon 5's. Joss hasn't explain it, and I hope he never does, as it will likely fail either scientific consistency or show consistency.

The stories are what interest me too, and I don't want to be distracted by either ill-conceived science, or new particle of the week club.

Thank You Kindly.

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:02 PM

RELFEXIVE


Again with the 'Yup'

Mal: "We're not gonna die. We can't die, Bendis. You know why? Because we are so... very... pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die."

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:48 PM

BADGERSHAT


I agree, the point is the story behind it..

... but it's fun as hell to try to qualify the tech stuff, too!!!

Tech-heads (as I sometimes count myself amongst) LOVE crap like this, tearing it apart and putting it back together...

But there's a point where the tech stuff can overwhelm the story, and create something like Tom Clancy novels gone SF... messy, bogged down...



--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:53 PM

HOWDYROCKERBABY1


Quote:

Originally posted by SevenPercent:
Quote:

Actually, I don't worry about it too much. It's science fiction, and I'm way more interested in the characters and the stories than all the techical details.


Delia posted this on another thread, the one about FTL vs. no FTL, and it got me to thinking -Has the development of technology that can actually do the things we once dreamed of taken away from what originally made Sci-fi great? - Here's my thoughts, forgive me if I ramble, I didnt intend to post today so I didnt get my thoughts organized ahead of time -

Originally, in some of the earliest and greatest Sci-fi, the science of the thing isnt what really mattered, it was the stories that counted- Think back to the stories that the authors you read today were influenced by- War of the Worlds, The Time Machine, 1984- HG Wells didnt write The Time Machine with an eye toward what was possible, he wrote it to comment on the nature of human relations - And it shouldnt be read with the goal of figuring out whether or not time travel is possible- Same with Orwell and Big Brother, the focus is on what it means to be a person in a totalitarian society- I've read the book that inspired Blade Runner, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, and the heart of the book wasnt whether AI was possible, it was about the nature of the soul -

What I'm getting at is that while I think the original Star Trek got it right, the later versions and the modern Sci-fi novel have gotten it all wrong- Aliens, tech, and digital animation have taken the place of human interaction and turned Sci-fi- true Sci-fi - into a freak show- Have a problem in space? Wait for the next gizmo to fix it or alien to swoop in and save the day- Remember what made the first Star Wars trilogy great? It was a human story, about finding who you were, and whether goodness existed in everyone- The latest ones? Slap some Jamaican-sounding aliens in there, who needs to develop characters?
Look at ST:TNG vs. Firefly - In OOGas, the ship breaks down, and there's nothing the crew can do about it- Does someone come to the rescue? Yep, a very bad, bad guy; which causes our beloved captain to get gutshot - True, the ending works out well for FF's crew, but how would ST have dealt with it? In the nick of time, someone on the crew would have figured out how to covert a gizmo (probably something with neutrinos), or called in aliens to help- Now, I grew up watching STTNG, so I'm not saying this to mock the show, I've seen every episode a ton of times-But not once did they ever really build the suspense like FF- With FF, you really feel for the people and what the episodes are trying to say about human interaction (how does Simon put it, out in space how you treat others is where it matters most)-

I guess what this rambling post is getting at is that you dont need aliens and you dont need technobabble to have good Sci-fi- What you need are good stories- It shouldnt matter how a 'gravity drive' works, or whether or not Serenity can go FTL- That stuff is there for the setting, it's not the story[/]- I loved B5, but I didnt give a damn how hyperspace worked, because that wasnt a character, it was just a setting with a neat special effect- I worry that if the BDM hits and Joss doesnt go with the conventions of modern, alien-oriented or realistic techno sci-fi, that the BDM is gonna bomb, because people have forgotten what matters- Let's all make sure we remember what counts-


------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.



Wow...for being "babbling" that sure was well said. bravo!

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Here's to Jayne, the box dropping man-ape-gone-wrong-thing"
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:03 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


I could not agree more SevenPercent. The show should be about the people and the story, not trying to determine whether or not the technology & technobabble are accurate and wash w/ current theories. I don't need to know how something works, that is pretty much just backdrop for the real story. It's broke, can't be fixed, drama insues. That's all we need.

I liked Star Trek Next Gen for the most part, but all the technobabble would get monotonous. I also got tired of the same thing all the time. Something is broken/damaged/sabotaged and it can't be fixed. Without that one part or system, the ship & crew are in danger & the fate of the Federation or some planet or another hangs in the balance. By some miracle the crew figure out how to fix it, in the nick of time of course, and all is saved.

I really liked the fresh concept that in OoG the ship was crippled and could not be repaired. If not for those pirates coming along trying to steal Serenity, the part Mal needed would never have been obtained.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 6:47 PM

ROCKETJOCK


If you want to see how to do this sort of thing right, check out Star Trek the Original Series; no long winded explanations of how Warp Drive works, no flashy SFX hyperspace/slipstream/stargate jumps; Warp Drive was a convenient piece of furniture used to move the characters "out there" where the plot could take place. Hell, in the earliest episodes it's fairly obvious that the structures later designated as "Warp Nacelles" were intended to be the sublight/impulse propulsion system (I.E., visible rocket tubes at the ends, a bit of model design later modified/ignored.)

The exact nature of Serenity's propulsion systems was, I think, left sketchy on purpose, to avoid strait-jacketing writers; but Joss is too good a storyteller/overseer to have let it be inconsistent; eventually, after enough episodes turned on the ship's capabilities, a consistent picture of how "Gravity Drive" and "Hard Burn" worked would have emerged. As it is, as fun as these threads can be as intellectual exercises, we're all making a lot of soup out of a single mouse.



"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 6:56 PM

BEATLE


And a lot of the Sci-Fi techno-babble has become a reality.
Sometimes the writers are ahead of the times, and sometimes the times follow the writers.

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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:25 PM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Originally posted by RocketJock:
If you want to see how to do this sort of thing right, check out Star Trek the Original Series; no long winded explanations of how Warp Drive works, no flashy SFX hyperspace/slipstream/stargate jumps; Warp Drive was a convenient piece of furniture used to move the characters "out there" where the plot could take place. Hell, in the earliest episodes it's fairly obvious that the structures later designated as "Warp Nacelles" were intended to be the sublight/impulse propulsion system (I.E., visible rocket tubes at the ends, a bit of model design later modified/ignored.)

The exact nature of Serenity's propulsion systems was, I think, left sketchy on purpose, to avoid strait-jacketing writers; but Joss is too good a storyteller/overseer to have let it be inconsistent; eventually, after enough episodes turned on the ship's capabilities, a consistent picture of how "Gravity Drive" and "Hard Burn" worked would have emerged. As it is, as fun as these threads can be as intellectual exercises, we're all making a lot of soup out of a single mouse.



"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein



See, that's what I was getting at- Sci-fi was just the tool to look at societal problems from an angle that was socially acceptable without pointing fingers- The absolute best episode ever of the original ST (as far as this thread is concerned, in my opinion) was the one with the black/white face guys (dont remember the ep. title)- It made two aliens mimic Earth's race problems, built great characters, and got the point across about what racism and hate do- I have trouble thinking of any STTNG thaqt even comes close to this (but there is a beautiful DS9 in which the file clerk at an extermination camp undergoes surgery to look like the overlord at that camp in order to die to pay for his whole race's crimes- awesome story)-
The sci-fi was secondary- Look at the original novel Frankenstein- Victor learns the secrets of life and death in just two years, after being bored by what he was learning and striking out on his own- Does anyone ever question this when they interpret the work? No, because it's a plot device, and not central to the issues of the work-

Now, I dont want anyone to get me wrong- I'm not bashing anyone who wants to talk real science and how it relates to FF- Sometimes it's fun to discuss whether or not FTL is really possible, I'm guilty of that myself- But I'd hate for anyone to show up at the movie and be unable to suspend their disbelief, as the saying goes- Watch the series. Watch the BDM. Enjoy them for the story first, which I think is what Joss would say they are all about-

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:07 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by SevenPercent:
I have trouble thinking of any STTNG thaqt even comes close to this (but there is a beautiful DS9 in which the file clerk at an extermination camp undergoes surgery to look like the overlord at that camp in order to die to pay for his whole race's crimes- awesome story)-

And in which the only person who shed a tear at his death was a Bajoran --one of the people "he'd" been accused of abusing. Beautifully crafted.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 6:49 AM

GHOULMAN


SevenPercent you are really seeing the Matrix. Nicely done.

Yet, you still call yourself a rambler. Hey, you have hit upon the truth of the literature you're talking about with sagasity and intellegence. You are completely right regarding Wells social leanings as well as the nature of P.K. Dicks "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep". Well done brother!

Of course, the worst thing about Sci-Fi is juuuuust out of your understanding. That is; I'm of the opinion that Hollywoodland has commited itself to creating 'schlock' Sci-Fi (SQ-1, B5, Star Trek rehashes). You know, if this is the main reason Hollywoodland makes Sci-Fi then actual genre fans will only get that. No Firefly!

No real Sci-Fi.

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 7:36 AM

ORANGERFUL


I agree with what you've said SevenPercent, now my turn to babble!

*steps on babble-box*

The thing that really drew me into Firefly was Joss' approach that "hey, maybe we ARE alone in the 'verse". I had grown up in a Star Trek/Star Wars family, so I always just taken it for granted that there were aliens out there. When I saw Firefly, being a bit older and I guess a bit more cynical than when I was a kid watchin Star Trek, the idea that this was it, and that humans were just going to have to deal with each other forever, and that they probably would continue to deal with each other the same way they always have felt right. That's why the whole western side worked for me. If we started exploring and living in the "final frontier", we'd do it like cowboys, and not like ambassadors.

The best episodes of any sci-fi series are the ones that do address real issues. And nowadays it takes a lot of guts to do that, maybe more so because of the networks vetoing your show (I heard there was an AIDS episode of ST:TNG in the works and the network said no way, they didn't get to produce an AIDS themed show until Enterprise, and by then, no one was watching save for the die-hards in denial).

The only thing I disagree with is your final statement, saying that people have forgotten what good storytelling is when it comes to sci-fi. I refuse to believe that. I think that Hollywood has forgotten that stories make the movies. People will see movies if the story touches them, sci-fi or not. Lord of the Rings has drawn in a whole new crowd, because people watched the movie and felt the weight of the story. It's Hollywood who needs to learn that splashy effects mean nothing, if you don't have a story and characters that connect with the audience, because the audience is waiting patiently, seeing the crappy movies in the hopes that one will turn out okay.

*steps down from babble-box, trips, and falls flat on her face*

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:43 AM

GUNRUNNER


Quote:

Originally posted by SevenPercent:
The absolute best episode ever of the original ST (as far as this thread is concerned, in my opinion) was the one with the black/white face guys (dont remember the ep. title)- It made two aliens mimic Earth's race problems, built great characters, and got the point across about what racism and hate do- I have trouble thinking of any STTNG thaqt even comes close to this (but there is a beautiful DS9 in which the file clerk at an extermination camp undergoes surgery to look like the overlord at that camp in order to die to pay for his whole race's crimes- awesome story



The TOS episode was Let This Be Your Last Battlefield and the DS9 one was Duet. I love that powerful moment at the end of Duet when Maj. Kira tell the Bajoran that kill the filing clerk that he wasn't Gul Darhe'el and the man responds "He was a Cardassian". Powerful stuff.

The Firefly CCG Web Site:
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Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:33 AM

TRACER


heh, well said sevenpercent

but alas, i have to say the majority of star trek kind of stank. has to be my pet hate :( its just with every iteration with the star trek looniverse you have something even more whacked out than the last. i'm sorry if i'm breaking a load of spock plates with this but i just find it so urgh, star trek just grows exponentially with the tech ideas they adopt, from the first series it was just a warp drive which did some fancy lights. OK so maybe The original and The Next generation won't be going in room 101.

Well maybe most of the eps on TNG where Q made his annoying appearance.. one thing i missed from TNG was the fact Pichard didn't try and flaunt himself with 97% of the female population of the ship...that was Worf's job


but on the flip side, the technobabble makes the Fiction more belivable to the fans, i guess people don't want to hear "that flashy thingy on the spinny thingy has gone" even i would raise an eyebrow, not like i'd get all hot over a compression coil, maybe Kaylee tho.

OK the Aliens, in some sci-fi shows Aliens can add flavour with others it kind of beats it to death with a messy stick the differences between the two?

A well presented alien race is good, excessive alien races gets almost comical,poorly thought out alien races

but on most shows you can see which shows will adopt the we are not alone factor, Firefly strayed away from the alien 'element' (for a time being) as you can figure Joss probably wanted to show 'the people' of the time and dwell like that, else he wouldn't have bothered with people speaking chinese, could've been "flingon" and i dunno people would be wearing Pasties on their foreheads....could anyone see a "verse" like that?

Its all about measures at the end of the day too much spoils it, too little makes it weak. you know when you've got it right.



Michael Dorn is a Pastie God

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:50 AM

BADGERSHAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Tracer:
heh, well said sevenpercent

but alas, i have to say the majority of star trek kind of stank. has to be my pet hate :( its just with every iteration with the star trek looniverse you have something even more whacked out than the last. i'm sorry if i'm breaking a load of spock plates with this but i just find it so urgh, star trek just grows exponentially with the tech ideas they adopt, from the first series it was just a warp drive which did some fancy lights. OK so maybe The original and The Next generation won't be going in room 101.

Well maybe most of the eps on TNG where Q made his annoying appearance.. one thing i missed from TNG was the fact Pichard didn't try and flaunt himself with 97% of the female population of the ship...that was Worf's job


but on the flip side, the technobabble makes the Fiction more belivable to the fans, i guess people don't want to hear "that flashy thingy on the spinny thingy has gone" even i would raise an eyebrow, not like i'd get all hot over a compression coil, maybe Kaylee tho.

OK the Aliens, in some sci-fi shows Aliens can add flavour with others it kind of beats it to death with a messy stick the differences between the two?

A well presented alien race is good, excessive alien races gets almost comical,poorly thought out alien races

but on most shows you can see which shows will adopt the we are not alone factor, Firefly strayed away from the alien 'element' (for a time being) as you can figure Joss probably wanted to show 'the people' of the time and dwell like that, else he wouldn't have bothered with people speaking chinese, could've been "flingon" and i dunno people would be wearing Pasties on their foreheads....could anyone see a "verse" like that?

Its all about measures at the end of the day too much spoils it, too little makes it weak. you know when you've got it right.



Michael Dorn is a Pastie God



... ummm... I think either, you typed slower than you though, or you think the way my sister flips channels...

Either way, I'm more or less thinking I can sorta follow you here... basically, you're not too huge a Star Trek fan, right?

I can see that. I grew up with it, and love it, but if I can step away from my childhood memories of it, TOS is REALLY cheesey, and the first 2 seasons of TNG are no better. But, they DID tackle some interesting issues at times, just from an alien point of view, which tends to weaken the human element a bit.

Star Trek, for all its flaws, gave us something new at least. Let's just hope that there's never an incident of Simon directly Mal and Kaylee on how to operate on his brain...

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:04 AM

TRACER


Quote:

Originally posted by BadgersHat:
... ummm... I think either, you typed slower than you though, or you think the way my sister flips channels...

Either way, I'm more or less thinking I can sorta follow you here... basically, you're not too huge a Star Trek fan, right?

I can see that. I grew up with it, and love it, but if I can step away from my childhood memories of it, TOS is REALLY cheesey, and the first 2 seasons of TNG are no better. But, they DID tackle some interesting issues at times, just from an alien point of view, which tends to weaken the human element a bit.

Star Trek, for all its flaws, gave us something new at least. Let's just hope that there's never an incident of Simon directly Mal and Kaylee on how to operate on his brain...

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne



well i hate splitting hairs and one arguement for star trek would be that if it wasn't for star trek none of the genuinely great stuff would get made... but in contrast you also create a lot of cheap rip offs.

despite its totally annoying and cheesey-ness star trek was a good show and maybe some of TNG. my dad would me for even thinking it was bad, but i sometimes sit there picking faults and crying at Michael Dorn's Cheese and Onion acting.


There is so much to say it really is just so tangled together. like the ever growing can of worms over the "new" star wars films.

its a love hate thing with me, i just love firefly tho.

Michael Dorn still the pastie master

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:13 AM

BADGERSHAT


See, the problem with Michael Dorn is, he's got the commanding resonant voice of a Shakespearian-trained actor, but plays it too strong.

Also, when he's up against an ACTUAL Shaksepearian actor (as in, Patrick Stewart), it just shows the flaws more profoundly (like watching a crappy old VHS tape on a plasma-screen TV...)



--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:19 AM

TRACER


Quote:

Originally posted by BadgersHat:
See, the problem with Michael Dorn is, he's got the commanding resonant voice of a Shakespearian-trained actor, but plays it too strong.

Also, when he's up against an ACTUAL Shaksepearian actor (as in, Patrick Stewart), it just shows the flaws more profoundly (like watching a crappy old VHS tape on a plasma-screen TV...)



--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne



Ditch the vhs :p
i just think pichard could have some more balls so to speak, if i was upstaged by data i'd just try a good old fashioned slap.
and well worf just seems so damn frustrated why doesn't he just ask for a chicken and leak pastie. might want to give him a better set of lines or at least tone it down a little.

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:33 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


While I'm a fan of the storyline-having sci-fi, I think it is a mistake to assume that sci-fi was never about the technobabble. The original Star Trek was as technobabble as anything today. The times have changed though, and much of what was once technobabble in OST has either because absurd or mainstream. For instance, at the time, the word 'computer' was somewhat technobabble. I remember when Kirk ordered a "portable Computer" to be beamed down from the Enterprise. This "portable" computer looked like it probably weighed (or would have weighed had it been more then cardboard) about 80 pounds and was as big as half my desk. To a 1960's audience that would have been techobabble, they would never have dreamed that one day 1000 times the computing power that once took up a whole room of machinery could fit in your hand, with a screen and pin interface, instead of binary punch cards. The world has really changed a lot, and with it, so has our technobabble.

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:46 PM

ANNIK


An ongoing beef I'm having lately with more recent authors is the apparent trend for people with a large string of numbers after their names to write detailed scientific dissertations under the guise of fiction.

I'm all for making scholarly topics interesting and captivating, but as a reader I don't want to have to be at least a graduate level science student just to follow the concepts presented.

I think the old saying that 'story is king!' is the really important part here. None of us are impressed by flashy graphics that have no story 'glue' to hold those flashy scenes together.

That's why 1970s disaster films are so great ... the FX were great for the time, but not good enough for some suit to decide that the movie only needs some bangs and booms, forget the writing. The writing is key. Remember 'The Poseidon Adventure'? Compelling, gripping drama about a group of very different people trying to survive.

Hey ... sounds like this great TV show I watched religously ... Firefly!

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:48 PM

ANNIK


Quote:

Originally posted by annik:
An ongoing beef I'm having lately with more recent authors is the apparent trend for people with a large string of numbers after their names to write detailed scientific dissertations under the guise of fiction.



EEk!

Sorry ... I'm horribly tired tonight and really should just log off to go saw some logs.

I *meant* to say "people with a large string of *letters* after their names (ie: PhD, etc.) ...
... sorry for the misprint!

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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76th Independent Battalion Part 48
Mon, September 24, 2018 08:44 - 1473 posts
Philadelphia CSTS event. Sunday, September 23th, 2018. Serenity Charity Screening.
Sun, September 23, 2018 00:21 - 1 posts
Richardson, Texas CSTS event. Sunday, September 23th, 2018. Serenity and Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog Charity Screening.
Sun, September 23, 2018 00:07 - 1 posts
New Firefly books to be published
Fri, September 21, 2018 12:52 - 23 posts
Ozark - finished season 2 - anyone watching?
Thu, September 20, 2018 20:48 - 4 posts
Burt Reynolds Dies at 82
Wed, September 12, 2018 02:45 - 3 posts
366 Weird Movies - Other film Sites
Tue, September 11, 2018 10:37 - 1 posts
2 Personal Alert Safety Systems (PASS) donated to arielambulance.org
Mon, September 10, 2018 15:14 - 4 posts
Firefly Serenity Ornament With Light
Sat, September 8, 2018 11:52 - 1 posts
Jayne statue! FanX Salt Lake City CSTS event. Saturday, September 8th, 2018. Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog Charity Screening.
Sat, September 8, 2018 11:16 - 3 posts
Milwaukee CSTS event. Saturday, September 8th, 2018. Serenity Charity Screening.
Sat, September 8, 2018 09:15 - 1 posts
American Hero Lost
Thu, September 6, 2018 04:56 - 17 posts

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