GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

No aliens need apply

POSTED BY: SITTINGDUCK
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:43
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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:00 AM

SITTINGDUCK


FIrefly is unconventional in that it's a show set in space that has no aliens. Can anyone else think of other space based SF without aliens?

The only other TV SF I can think of with no aliens is Red Dwarf. With the possible exception of the Inquisitor, everyone and everything they've met has a clear link to Earth.

Written SF has a bit more on this. Frank Herbert's Dune Chronicles is one. While there's a mention in Chapterhouse Dune of a menace Out There, a passage from Dune: The Butlerian Jihad has me more inclined to think that it's a remnant of the thinking machines. Then there's Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan Saga. And while I haven't read it myself, I'm given to understand that Isacc Asimov's Foundation trilogy has no aliens. Any others?

You have the right to the remains of a silent attorney. If you cannot afford one, tough noogies.

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 5:34 AM

WEERWOLF


Ehmmm... Spacetruckers? Would have to rewatch to be sure though.

Miles (and Mark) rules!

"Boldly going forward cuz we can't find reverse."

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 5:41 AM

GUNHAND


The Heritage Trilogy for the most part by...name eludes me.

There were aliens but they're appearently all dead by the time the books take place so all of the combat on Mars and the Moon is between the militaries of Earth.

But...I could be a little mistaken about them all being really dead and gone (aliens that is) because before I finished the last book it inexplicibly disappeared. :(

Simon Green's Deathstalker series is close to being an alien-free zone as well, there are aliens but they were all genetically created by humans. Which is kinda creepifying when you think about it...Reavers anyone?



~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 5:48 AM

DUKE


Did Space:1999 have aliens? I don't think so.

Anyone remember the Andy Griffith show in which he built his own rocket... Salvage One?





"I'll be in my bunk..."

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:35 AM

DAVEY


I seem to remember there being aliens in Space 1999 at least in one episode, wasnt Alpha attacked by a fleet of alien fighters at one point?
From the same era did Blakes Seven have aliens?

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:17 AM

GUNRUNNER


Does Space Island One count as Sci Fi?

The Firefly CCG Web Site:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Bllm119/firefly_ccg_web_site.htm

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:01 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


In my opinion, the alien thing has been done enough. I like Firefly because it focuses on the human experience and human issues in the 'verse.

Aliens are fine, don't get me wrong. I liked the original Star Trek, Star Trek Next Gen, & Babylon 5. The aliens in those shows were interesting, but at times the plot seemed to lose sight of the human condition and where humans fit in the grand scheme of the universe.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:39 AM

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL


Blakes 7 had very limited use of aliens. Virtually all the creatures/species encountered on the show were explained as genetic experiments or somesuch, with the exception of the Andromedans in Star One/Aftermath. Those aliens were treated as a pretty big deal by everyone, and it was pretty clear that our galaxy was colonized exclusively by beings from Earth.

"I like smackin' 'em!" - Jayne Cobb

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:19 AM

DAVEY


I cant think of any other series but as for films I think that The Black Hole and Silent Running were alien free, and wasnt there a Tv film called Starcommand which was human vs human.

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:26 AM

BADGERSHAT


Well, that bloody awful "Seaquest" or somesuch title, with the guy from Jaws, didn't have aliens at first... they showed up later.

But the show sucked wind from the word go, so I am ashamed I brought it up... sorry...

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:36 AM

WREN


Didn't Red Dwarf have the Psirens and Kinitawowi?

EDIT - sorry ignore this. That will teach me to read things properly before I respond to a post.

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:05 AM

WEERWOLF


Darwin the dolphin was cool... But it's not a space show. It's a seashow. Question was for spaceshows/movies without aliens.

Not even Total Recall counts, does it? no aliens themselves, just this huge hunk of atmosphere reactor build by them.

"Wash, take us out of the world."

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:16 AM

KIZZY


Wasn't Maya on Space 1999 an alien?

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:30 AM

MSCKAREN


Going Back... "The Prisoner" unless you think aliens were behind the whole thing or you viewed this more as a mystery than SF.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:02 PM

DAVCO92


Space 1999 had LOTS of aliens, pretty much a new one (almost) every week. Yes, Maya was also an alien.

Burn the land, boil the sea...

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:22 PM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by SittingDuck:
FIrefly is unconventional in that it's a show set in space that has no aliens. Can anyone else think of other space based SF without aliens?



what about Kubrick's
2001 A Space Odyssey in 1968?
wasn't that all humans/human mind...?

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:46 PM

ZOID


SittingDuck, et al:

Mind if I weigh in? I've been avoiding the FTL and single-system v. galaxy threads, 'cause frankly, I'm not sure where I stand, or even if I care enough to take a side. I don't think those technical details matter that much; I'm down with the majority of fems on this one: the characters are all that matters.

Having said that, those issues are pretty important factors when discussing the possibility of encountering alien intelligences in Firefly.

If Firefly takes place in either a single system or a small cluster of stars, then if there are no aliens native to that neighborhood, the chances of running into aliens is almost astronomically small. That's why we haven't had alien encounters here on Earth (with all apologies to drunken fisherman in the Ozarks). Why would an alien race beat the bushes, way out in the sticks where we live? Chances are, we're on our own, unless we figure out how to go visit 'galactic central points' ourselves, where chances of running into sentient non-humans are greater based strictly on the number of stars available.

If on the other hand, Firefly travel is FTL, and the stories are set on several star systems throughout the galaxy, then the probability of getting into the vicinity of a spacefaring race increases proportionally to the number of systems humans inhabit.

The Milky Way galaxy contains an estimated 100 billion stars. The chance that the Earth is the only planet within the galaxy to have given rise to life seems very remote indeed, especially given that self-organized complexity appears to arise spontaneously in nature. There should be a lot of alien life in our galaxy (and who knows how much in the millions of billions of galaxies in the universe, each with roughly a hundred billion stars). Does that life reach intelligence? Has ours, by any measuring stick other than our own? Are those alien intelligences driven by curiousity about alien lifeforms like us, or is that a uniquely human drive, spawned by the circumstances of our evolutionary influences?

As I have indicated elsewhere, I'm tinkering with a sci-fi novel. Without giving anything away, my protagonists may communicate with alien intelligences by means of sub-space transmissions, but cannot travel FTL and so will never encounter any aliens without taking a trip of several thousand years. The same is true of all the aliens my humans communicate with; as a result, and since they are 'old hands' at this particular conundrum, the aliens could care less whether or not humans talk to them, or if they annihilate themselves. They've seen it all before. While they are willing to communicate with other sentient species, they are not avid to do so, they are indifferent.

In short, I believe it's supportable that alien intelligences do exist elsewhere in our galaxy. If Firefly is FTL and many-system, it's conceivable that her crew might encounter some of them. If it's single system and no FTL, it's highly unlikely -- the odds are definitely against it -- unless that system is considerably farther in toward the galactic core than Sol is.

The terraforming of planets and smaller satellites raises questions of ethics and potential genocide; but, I'll save that opinion 'til later...


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Even back when, River had that indefinable 'it', y'know? Inquisitive, insightful -- Very focused... Some things never change."

- 'Wash' Warren, Chief Architect and co-proprietor, "Cretaceous Park", Hera; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:04 AM

FARWALL


I may have missed something here but Red Dwarf did have quite aliens didn't it? The first things that spring to mind are the huge hairy ugly things that Lister gets roped into marrying. Don't remember them having any connections to earth.

----------
I have no faith but it's all that I want
to be loved and believe
in my soul.

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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:12 AM

GUNRUNNER


Outland had no Aliens.

Space: Above and Beyond technically had no Aliens since the Chigs (sp?) evolved on Earth. But we find that out in the last new episode shown!!!

The Firefly CCG Web Site:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Bllm119/firefly_ccg_web_site.htm

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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:13 AM

KNIBBLET


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
In my opinion, the alien thing has been done enough. I like Firefly because it focuses on the human experience and human issues in the 'verse.
Aliens are fine, don't get me wrong....the plot seemed to lose sight of the human condition



All genre of fiction is about the same thing - the human condition and human motivation.

In Star Trek, aliens were simply a convenient way of packaging human problems, prejudices and horrors in a "safe non-threatening" package.

The half black - half white guys in classic Trek were a way of presenting color prejudice in a way that would get past network censors and narrow-minded bigots.

The gender neutral people who reproduced assexually in TNG weren't about gender neutral people - they were about homophobia and how people try to label homosexuality a sickness to be cured.

The Gorn wasn't about a lizard. The Gorn was the danger of hating an enemy so much, you destroy yourself in the process.

I could cite hundreds of references, but Haken needs the bandwidth to support all conversations.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:32 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Knibblet:
Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
In my opinion, the alien thing has been done enough. I like Firefly because it focuses on the human experience and human issues in the 'verse.
Aliens are fine, don't get me wrong....the plot seemed to lose sight of the human condition



All genre of fiction is about the same thing - the human condition and human motivation.

In Star Trek, aliens were simply a convenient way of packaging human problems, prejudices and horrors in a "safe non-threatening" package.

The half black - half white guys in classic Trek were a way of presenting color prejudice in a way that would get past network censors and narrow-minded bigots.

The gender neutral people who reproduced assexually in TNG weren't about gender neutral people - they were about homophobia and how people try to label homosexuality a sickness to be cured.

The Gorn wasn't about a lizard. The Gorn was the danger of hating an enemy so much, you destroy yourself in the process.

I could cite hundreds of references, but Haken needs the bandwidth to support all conversations.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."



Agreed Knibs, and I did deduce the double meaning behind the Star Trek episodes and their hidden meaning in relation to current (or at the time of the episodes airing) events.

As I said, aliens are fine and all, but quite honestly I prefer to see humans dealing w/ human problems in a human enviroment. To me it cuts down on the distracting alien appearance and the need to discern their cultural differences in a given situation.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:11 AM

SITTINGDUCK


Quote:

Originally posted by Farwall:
I may have missed something here but Red Dwarf did have quite aliens didn't it? The first things that spring to mind are the huge hairy ugly things that Lister gets roped into marrying. Don't remember them having any connections to earth.



Those were GELFs (Genetically Engineered Life Forms). Their ancestors were created by humans, so therefore they're not aliens.

You have the right to the remains of a silent attorney. If you cannot afford on, tough noogies!

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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:43 PM

FARWALL


Fair enough. Red Dwarf is one more of the many shows that I wasn't really paying attention to that level of detail. Red Dwarf = Funny was all I needed to know.

----------
I have no faith but it's all that I want
to be loved and believe
in my soul.

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