GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Serenity Pets

POSTED BY: WHOODAHN
UPDATED: Sunday, December 18, 2005 06:07
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Friday, April 23, 2004 3:24 AM

WHOODAHN


You know how pets will often look like their owners. Can you imagine what pets that the crew of Serenity would have?

The first one I thought of is Inara. She would have a beautiful full size French poodle with long wavy fur.

I think River would have a Chihuahua. Smallish, large eyes, a little neurotic.

I think Kaylee would have a Persian cat or some sort of large long haired cat.

Jayne would have a German Shepherd.

I think Wash would have a monkey. Maybe it's the shirt or the animated way he talks but I can picture him with a monkey.

I'm not sure about Book. When he pokes his head around the corner looking for River with his hair sticking out, it reminds me of something but I can't put my finger on it. Any ideas?

Mal looks like a dog person. Maybe a bulldog or pit bull.

Zoë needs something big, regal and exotic. I think she would have a domesticated panther or jaguar

Simon? I think Simon has a goldfish.


"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, April 23, 2004 5:19 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by WhooDahn:
I think Kaylee would have a Persian cat or some sort of large long haired cat.

Long-haired animal around engines? Very, very bad.

I'm thinking more a short-hair. Something playful and silly, but smart enough to avoid the bad places.

Inara would probably have a long-hair, or maybe a siamese or some other exotic breed. Probably with a suitably enigmatic and elegant personality. Or maybe she'd just keep fish. Tropical fish, with flashy eye-bending colours and frilly fins. Or maybe give her Zoe's panther or jaguar --something elegant, regal, polite, even gentle, but never, ever to be "tamed."

Bulldogs & pitbulls don't really seem Mal's style. Maybe a beagle ( ), or a terrier or somethng. Yeah, a terrier; small, relatively weak, but willing to take on enemies several times its size, and absolutely will not let go if it thinks it has any chance at all. That's Mal right there.

Zoe seems more of the pitbull type; remember her whole thing about not attracting attention. Big cats tend to be attention-getters.

Book would probably have something small and non-violent. Maybe a hamster. Or maybe Book would have one of the wierd cats; the ones that think like guard dogs and are willing to act like they're trained. Something suitably mysterious.

Simon is a hamster, canonically.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Friday, April 23, 2004 6:36 AM

LIZ


so, umm practically speaking, i can't see too many animals on Serenity. But i am putting in my choices anyway

Kaylee-- a cute little gray tiger cat that loves to climb into peoples laps. Or a golden retreiver, they are so happy.

Inara-- yes. a siamese cat. perfect. Exotic fish are more practical because her clients might have allegies.

Mal-- medium sized dog... i'll go with that. a hunting dog maybe. a beagle because they have smallish droppings?

Wash -- Monkey is great! or maybe a parrot... something that'd sit on his shoulder.

Zoe-- a snake. one that wouldn't eat Wash's pet (or had been trained not to). i don't have any justification for it. it just seems fitting.

Book-- a fish. or a small lizard.

I think of both Book and Simon as aquarium people.

Simon-- a turtle.

River-- i think River is a cat person. a black cat that only likes her.

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Friday, April 23, 2004 7:17 AM

WHOODAHN


Maybe a better question is what animal does the crew make you think of?

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, April 23, 2004 7:27 AM

HERO


Mal should get a beagle. He could name it Archer.

Inara and Kaylee are cat people.

River would adopt a pet rock. (Why a rock? Because the one she would pick wouldn't know its a rock.)

Simon is a white mouse man.

No pets for Book, Zoe, or Wash.

Jayne, some kind of annoying talking bird. Something that swears and makes lewd comments at women and Wash.

Also it'd be cool to see some kind of vermin sneak onto Serenity for an episode. Hmmm...

Mal- "You mean you didn't use protection?"
Jayne- "Well, I was in a hurry...besides, I didn't see any when I looked, you know...down there."
Mal- "You always check unsealed cargo."
Wash- "Great! Nobody'll let us land now that we have Space Herpes."
Mal- "Nobody is gonna find out. Zoe, get the Doctor to wip up something to get rid of them."

H

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Friday, April 23, 2004 7:58 AM

WHOODAHN


Quote:


Also it'd be cool to see some kind of vermin sneak onto Serenity for an episode. Hmmm...



I think it would be cool for a fox to sneak on board. They would only see the crap it leaves laying around. Jayne could spend the whole episode hunting it down and they could all take turns cussing that "Damn Fox"

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, April 23, 2004 8:15 AM

BADGERSHAT


Quote:

Originally posted by WhooDahn:
Quote:


Also it'd be cool to see some kind of vermin sneak onto Serenity for an episode. Hmmm...



I think it would be cool for a fox to sneak on board. They would only see the crap it leaves laying around. Jayne could spend the whole episode hunting it down and they could all take turns cussing that "Damn Fox"

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"




... this is, quite possibly, the single most brilliant idea I've ever read on a Firefly thread!!!!!

I tip my shiny hat to you, in courteous acknowledgement of your superior skill.

Also, I think Kaylee would have a floppy puppy that keeps tripping over its own feet. Cats are great--but cats are just a little bit lacking in lavishing affection that Kaylee would want in a pet.

Inara is, without question, a cat person. Something very regal and elegant, like a Persian.

Wash strikes me as a fish guy, only because of the absurd antics he would pretend they were up to in their little bowl.

River would most definitely adopt something everyone else hates, something evil, like a ferret. She could name is Rupert, or Murdoch.

Jayne... I kinda see him throwing everyone off, and falling helplessly in love with a Yorkshire terrier (complete with red bow tied to forehead). Then again, he might also have a collection of tarantulas or Black Widows, because they're scary, and scary can be fun if it's the other guy.

Simon would think pets are too dangerous--wild animals can bite and cause infections... then again, he might throw us all off, and bring home a 17 foot Reticulate Python...

Mal is not a dog lover, because dogs need way too much attention, all the time. I could see Mal with a cat, and his and Inara's cats would constantly be getting it on in the hallways (sort of metaphoric). Then again, a gigantic, powerful, and scary-strong part-timberwolf following him everywhere would be a good thing, too.

Book is somewhere between a beautiful pair of parakeets, and a trained bird-of-prey of some sort (maybe a falcon).

I think Zoe's pet would be born in a Smith & Wesson or Heckler & Kock factory, living on a strictly metallic diet.

--The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Friday, April 23, 2004 8:41 AM

HOWDYROCKERBABY1


A poodle is definately too spazztic and goofy to belong to inara, she definately needs a cat, a cool cat.

Wash with the monkey i totally agree

Book's would be one of those goofy dogs with the long white hair.

Simon wouldn't have a Goldfish, too stupid. But then again i can't really see Simon with a dog or a cat either.



*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Here's to Jayne, the box dropping man-ape-gone-wrong-thing"
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

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Friday, April 23, 2004 10:14 AM

WHOODAHN


Quote:


Inara is, without question, a cat person. Something very regal and elegant, like a Persian.




You are right, maybe a Himalayan. Speaking of Him-a-layin....I bet Inara would have a nice...uh...cat.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, April 23, 2004 2:49 PM

CYBERSNARK


I see Mal and the dog more as the Serenity gets caught by the Alliance (nothing major, just a "routine safety/contraband check" as makework for the soldiers). Same cruiser has a bunch of animals en route to wherever, including one little terrier that sneaks out and manages to get aboard Serenity. They don't find the dog 'til they're underway, and Mal's all about tossin' it off his boat (much to Kaylee's chagrin).

The show progresses as normal; crime happens, crew gets away. The dog is nothing more than a sub-plot.

They arrive on Persephone and are greeted by Badger, who promptly tries to sell Serenity out from under Mal! He has a wealthy and arrogantly ignorant buyer who's willing to pay several times Serenity's worth for "a taste of the frontier" (he'll crew it with a squad of his finest spit-and-polish butlers, of course ).

The dog ends up chasing off the fastidious client by peeing on his shoes (Mal & co snickering). After he storms off, Badger rounds on the "flea bitten li'le mut," and turns to stalk out. The pup then takes a chunk out of whatever part of him's in reach (possibly getting into a tug-of-war for The Hat, which Badger'll have removed for the obscenely rich fellow), then trots back to Mal, tail wagging (preferably still carrying a piece of ripped-off Badger).

If Mal's not ready to adopt it by then as an honorary Browncoat, he'll never be.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Simon is a white mouse man.

Hee; a liberated lab rat!

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Saturday, April 24, 2004 6:37 AM

DELIA


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
River would adopt a pet rock. (Why a rock? Because the one she would pick wouldn't know its a rock.)



I love it. And I can just hear her saying that. Great choice.

I wonder if a rock is a rock when it's on a spaceship, or if it forgets how to be. Or maybe it thinks its a cow . . .

Delia

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Saturday, April 24, 2004 5:33 PM

HARDWARE


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:

Bulldogs & pitbulls don't really seem Mal's style. Maybe a beagle ( ), or a terrier or somethng. Yeah, a terrier; small, relatively weak, but willing to take on enemies several times its size, and absolutely will not let go if it thinks it has any chance at all. That's Mal right there.
B]



Gotta disagree with you friend. Mal reminds me more a pit bull that any other character on the show. It fits in so perfectly with Mal's background. Before they were used to fight other dogs any dog with "Bull" in it's name is from a catch dog line that was used to catch cattle by gripping on the cow, steer or bull's nose or neck and never letting go lest they be trampled. People made them fight bulls and bears in a ring for entertainment. When bull and bear baiting was outlawed the bulldogs were crossbred with terriers to make a smaller, more agile and more animal aggressive dog to fight other dogs.

I can just imagine the scene now;

INTERIOR DAY: A large crowd is gathered in an ampitheater around a smallish circle cheering and applauding. Money is passing hands and people are pointing into the center of the circle. Quick shots of two dogs locked together in a fight. The walls and floor of the dog pit are splashed with blood. MAL, ZOE and JAYNE enter a door at the top of the ampitheatre.

JAYNE: (sitting down in the stands) Alright! A little entertainment.

MAL has a look of thinly disguised disgust on his face.

ZOE: (glancing at the dog fight, then at MAL) You're not thinking of making a scene here, are you sir?

MAL: (tearing his eyes away from the fight to look at ZOE) No. Not at all. Just waiting until our man arrives and the cargo's loaded. (he looks back at the dog pit) Nothing here to concern us.

KAYLEE: (enters through the door) Hey! There you are Cap'n. (smiling) Badger's man says everything is good with the cargo and Inara will be back shortly. (she looks down into the dog pit and her smile falls) Oh my. What... what are they doing?

MAL: (terse) Entertainment.

ZOE: Kaylee, people got different ways. Different things they like to see. This bunch thinks its fun to watch two dogs tear each other up.

KAYLEE: (beseeching look at MAL) Cap'n, you're gonna stop 'em, right?

MAL: (still looking into the pit) Nothin' more to stop.

MAL's POV, ZOOM INTO PIT The buckskin dog has the brown brindle dog by the neck down on the ground. The brown brindle is struggling weakly as the referee calls the fight. Handlers jump into the pit and separate the dogs. The buckskin dog's handlers take him out of the ring, the handlers for the brown brindle dog leave him laying on the floor of the pit, nudging him with the toe of their boot.

JAYNE: (walking back over, clapping his hands and smiling) Been a long time since we had any decent entertainment. Sure sorry we missed most of that. Feller over there says it went on most of an hour. (looking into the pit with renewed interest) Oh, show's not over yet.

The brindle dog's handler is drawing a revolver and checking to make certain it is loaded.

KAYLEE: (in distress) Cap'n! Do something!

MAL: (with a "I'm going to regret this" grimace on his face as he pushes past KAYLEE, JAYNE and ZOE and trots down the stairs into the ring) Hey there! Ho, hold on just a minute.

The dog handler looks at MAL, gun still pointed at the down dog.

MAL: Look, ah, how much'll you take for that dog?

HANDLER: He's all busted up. Puttin' him down's merciful.

MAL: Yeah, well, the big feller up there, (indicating Jayne) he'd be all broke up to see you shoot this dog. I'll give you two silver.

HANDLER: Five.

MAL: (looking like he's being swindled) He's all busted up!

HANLDER: Four then. Dog concession'll give me that.

MAL: (reaching into his pocket and giving the handler coins) See, we both made out. (reaching down to pick up the dog)

HANDLER: How so?

MAL: (standing back up as the dog whines at being moved) Easy there. I got me a busted up dog. You saved a bullet.







The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Saturday, April 24, 2004 7:09 PM

DROKKA


Haven't really thought about everyone else's but since Wash seems a bit of a dinosaur fan, perhaps an iguana or gecko.

d~

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 4:15 AM

WHOODAHN


Quote:


MAL: (reaching into his pocket and giving the handler coins) See, we both made out. (reaching down to pick up the dog)

HANDLER: How so?

MAL: (standing back up as the dog whines at being moved) Easy there. I got me a busted up dog. You saved a bullet.



Nice.

He could name the dog Tracy.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 2:42 PM

LEMAT


Hardware,

That was very well thought out--almost too well thought out, although, I myself have been creepifying on many occasions.

At first read, I thought that I would have let the dog be put down because it might be a danger to people. River, however, would probably be able to nurse to back to proper mental health; kinda proping each other up psychically.

Jon

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 2:43 PM

LEMAT


Wait, that would make it River's dog, not the Captain's. Hmm.

Jon

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 3:40 PM

ZOID



All:

Quote:

MAL: (reaching into his pocket and giving the handler coins) See, we both made out. (reaching down to pick up the dog)

Kids, don't try this at home. Picking up a badly wounded animal, that's a trained killer and is unfamiliar with you is a great way to get yourself some really neat scars to show your grandkids.

And, of course -- since a pit bull's jaw locks -- once he's got hold of your arm and is applying roughly 1000lbs of pressure per square inch of jawline (think ViseGrips), you'll have plenty of time to rethink your humanitarian stance while seeking medical assistance.

Replace the pit bull with a shepherd or a nice black lab -- both loyal and excellent in a fight -- found not in a dog fight, but in a similarly abusive situation, and your story still works and everybody on the crew would feel good about it. Zoe, who wants a child, would be within her rights to put a bullet in the pit bull's brain pan at the first opportunity. Or maybe -- since pit bulls are notorious for mauling children and people who react fearfully toward them -- the dog would attack River, who would then make the beast explode in mid-leap.

She could kill it with her brain.


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"River and me was best friends, back then. I named my first-born daughter after her. 'Course, you can't swing a dead cat 'round here on I-Day without hittin' a River..."

- Kaywinnit Tam, wife and mother of 6, A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 3:44 PM

GUNHAND


Nice little dogfighting imagery there, that is something I can really see happening with Mal if he's ever in that situation. Right down to the spot on dialog.

But the thing is...Jayne's really Mal's dog. In the old folksy wisdom way.

Q: "What do you do when someone sics a meanass junkyard dog on ya?"

A: "Sic your meaner, bigger dog on him."

Jayne's the bigger, meaner dog. Which makes me think that if Jayne had a pet it'd be something completely different than what someone would think of him given a first glance at his character, but would make sense after you see some more of him. I'm thinking something cute, small and completely doted on. Either a bunny or a small bird of some sort.

And God help anyone who makes fun of his fuzzy bunny...


"Pain is scary..."

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 3:48 PM

GUNHAND


And another good point from Zoid.

One of the things about dogfighting is it still does go on. I saw the actual numbers not too long ago for Tucson but fight arrangers actually kidnap houshold pets to 'blood' the fighting dogs on. The numbers for last year were in the couple thousand of missing and then found dead in the desert pet dogs.

The big ones they keep to bring up as fighters, the normal type dogs they use for practice for the big mean ones.

So in addition to not trying that at home kids, if ya see someone kidnapping a dog to use in the pits, put your foot up their pei goo.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.


"Pain is scary..."

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 5:52 PM

HARDWARE


Quote:


Kids, don't try this at home. Picking up a badly wounded animal, that's a trained killer and is unfamiliar with you is a great way to get yourself some really neat scars to show your grandkids.

And, of course -- since a pit bull's jaw locks -- once he's got hold of your arm and is applying roughly 1000lbs of pressure per square inch of jawline (think ViseGrips), you'll have plenty of time to rethink your humanitarian stance while seeking medical assistance...



Sorry Zoid, locking jaws and meaningful measurements of jaw strength are both urban legends about pit bulls. There has been no scientific study done about relative dog breed bit pressure. In fact, studies of pit bull musculo-skeletal structure shows no significant difference with any other breed's jaw.

Let's take a moment to discuss the real facts.

Pit bulls consistently place higher than German Shepherds in temperment testing.
http://www.atts.org/statistics.html

As far as Zoe needing to put down a pit to keep her child safe, Pete the pup of Little Rascals fame was a pit bull. I don't recall Alfalfa, Darla or Spanky getting mauled.

Pit bulls used to the THE American dog. They were used to represent the US in World War 1 posters. Some famous pit bulls from advertising include Nipper the RCA Victor dog and Tige, Buster Brown's dog. Back in the 60's the demon dog was the German Shepherd, in the 70's it was the Doberman Pinscher. Lately it has been the pit bull and it is about to become the Rottweiler's turn. Are any of these dog breeds inherrently bad? No.

Bad dogs come in any breed. A well bred, trained and socialized pit bull is as bomb-proof a dog as you could hope to have. But bad breeding and bad owners have done far more damage to this breed's public image than good stories and truth can easily undo.

Go here for more information. http://www.geocities.com/k9rescueltd/

Go here to see what a real pit bull is capable of. http://www.outofthepits.org/stories.html



The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 6:51 PM

ZOID



Hardware:

Glad to know you love your dogs, regardless of breed.
Quote:

Using the finest granite from his own Vermont quarry, Caterson created a majestic ten-foot-high monument, which is topped with a bronze statue of a handsome shepherd dog, wearing a Red Cross blanket. At the shepherd's feet are a bronze helmet and a canteen. A huge American flag waves proudly above. A simple inscription graces the memorial:

Dedicated to the memory of the war dog. Erected by public contributions by dog lovers to man's faithful friend for the valiant services rendered in world war, 1914 - 1918.


The highest-decorated US Army war dog was Chips, a part-shepherd, part-collie father and a northern sled-dog mother. The types of dogs accepted into the US Army K-9 Corps, instituted during WWII, was restrticted to German Shepherds, Belgian Sheep Dogs, Doberman Pinschers, Farm Collies and Giant Schnauzers. If you like war dog stories, try http://tinyurl.com/2j4vd . I like my GSDs, mostly for their thunderous bark (best security alarm you could ever buy) and their uncanny sense of who needs biting, rather than just being a senseless brawler; you can have whatever 'house wolf' you prefer.

Pit bull's jaws do lock. My kids brought home a mixed breed puppy from one of the neighboring farms that turned out to have a lot of pit in it. I first got worried when playing with it as a puppy. It would latch onto a rag and hang suspended from it without even trying, for as long as you could hold the dog in the air.

It eventually ripped one of our kittens to shreds, and I had it destroyed. It's the only time I've ever had an otherwise healthy dog put down. We have other small pets and grandbabies underfoot, and I'm not taking that risk, regardless that others might consider it 'urban legend'. Once a dog kills, except at my command, that dog is not long for the heavenly choir.

On the one hand, there's the urban legend aspect of the issue; on the other, there's my first-hand experience with it.

And I'll restate: never approach an unfamiliar animal, especially if it's injured. Cautiously approach a wounded animal, even if it's one of your own. As a child, I remember my father removing a wounded and dying dog from the road by holding a section of wooden planking near its muzzle. The dog immediately bit the plank and held fast while my dad dragged its broken body to the roadside and delivered the coup de grace.


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"River and me was best friends, back then. I named my first-born daughter after her. 'Course, you can't swing a dead cat 'round here on I-Day without hittin' a River..."

- Kaywinnit Tam, wife and mother of 6, A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 7:52 PM

HARDWARE


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:

Hardware:

Glad to know you love your dogs, regardless of breed.



And it is pretty obvious to me you love dogs too.

Quote:


The highest-decorated US Army war dog was Chips, a part-shepherd, part-collie father and a northern sled-dog mother. The types of dogs accepted into the US Army K-9 Corps, instituted during WWII, was restrticted to German Shepherds, Belgian Sheep Dogs, Doberman Pinschers, Farm Collies and Giant Schnauzers. If you like war dog stories, try http://tinyurl.com/2j4vd . I like my GSDs, mostly for their thunderous bark (best security alarm you could ever buy) and their uncanny sense of who needs biting, rather than just being a senseless brawler; you can have whatever 'house wolf' you prefer.


I'd never think to dismiss the sacrifice of military dogs. When I said the pit bull was the American dog I meant in popularity. The northern European shepherd breeds have always been popular with the US military. A dog used for propaganda posters is a whole different thing than one trained for sentry guard work.

Pit bulls aren't used for serious guard work. The simple fact is they aren't human aggressive. In order for a (well bred) pit to be human aggressive it has to be trained or unsocialized. A poorly bred dog of any breed can be a vicious manbiter.

Around my house my pit bulls mostly jump up on people. If our house got broken into they would probably help load the truck. The only time I could imagine them doing anything is if my girlfriend or I were being attacked. Then I would not place bets on what would happen.

Of course the thieves that see them laying in my bay window don't need to know that they're friendly, do they?
Quote:


Pit bull's jaws do lock. My kids brought home a mixed breed puppy from one of the neighboring farms that turned out to have a lot of pit in it. I first got worried when playing with it as a puppy. It would latch onto a rag and hang suspended from it without even trying, for as long as you could hold the dog in the air.


As I mentioned earlier pit bulls are descended from catch dogs. The ones that let go got trampled by the cattle. Consider this a good example of Darwin's theory. Adult pit bulls do this too hanging from a springpole, which is a rope on a frame suspended from a spring. The important thing to remember about this is they want to hang on.

Pit bulls are well documented tree climbers. The usual method of climbing is to jump, take a bite of a tree limb and put their forelegs over the branch and pull themselves up. Then repeat if they're not high enough. I've got a series of pictures of a dog climbing a tree, winding up a good 15 feet off the ground.

Quote:


It eventually ripped one of our kittens to shreds, and I had it destroyed. It's the only time I've ever had an otherwise healthy dog put down. We have other small pets and grandbabies underfoot, and I'm not taking that risk, regardless that others might consider it 'urban legend'. Once a dog kills, except at my command, that dog is not long for the heavenly choir.


Animal aggression is a known behavioral component in pit bulls. Some have it, some don't. A puppy that displays it might not have the best temperment. But animal and human aggression are two wildly different behaviors. Not questioning your judgement in the situation, just saying.

Quote:


And I'll restate: never approach an unfamiliar animal, especially if it's injured. Cautiously approach a wounded animal, even if it's one of your own. As a child, I remember my father removing a wounded and dying dog from the road by holding a section of wooden planking near its muzzle. The dog immediately bit the plank and held fast while my dad dragged its broken body to the roadside and delivered the coup de grace.


This is good advice. An injured dog that would otherwise never think of biting can lash out in pain. I've had to pick up a number of injured dogs doing rescue and unless we have a chance to assess the dog we use a fabric muzzle.

In the brief story I wrote Mal wasn't going to get bit. The writer was on his side.

Quote:


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"River and me was best friends, back then. I named my first-born daughter after her. 'Course, you can't swing a dead cat 'round here on I-Day without hittin' a River..."

- Kaywinnit Tam, wife and mother of 6, A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard



By the way, I like your sig file. Can't wait to see what the others have to say.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 8:01 PM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:



Pit bull's jaws do lock. My kids brought home a mixed breed puppy from one of the neighboring farms that turned out to have a lot of pit in it. I first got worried when playing with it as a puppy. It would latch onto a rag and hang suspended from it without even trying, for as long as you could hold the dog in the air.

It eventually ripped one of our kittens to shreds, and I had it destroyed. It's the only time I've ever had an otherwise healthy dog put down. We have other small pets and grandbabies underfoot, and I'm not taking that risk, regardless that others might consider it 'urban legend'. Once a dog kills, except at my command, that dog is not long for the heavenly choir.

On the one hand, there's the urban legend aspect of the issue; on the other, there's my first-hand experience with it.




My chocolate lab can do the same thing, he does it all the time when we play tug (which, with him weighing in at nearly 100 lbs, I tend to tire far more easily than he does)- My cousin has an English bulldog that will do the same thing with a baseball bat- I've never known a pit bull to become aggressive unless trained to be so, but I have known several shepherds to suddenly become territorial and defensive (including my wife's parents' dog, which they had to give up because the dog wouldnt let them near their own baby, who I suppose it saw as its own)-
We had our dog professionally trained, and the trainer told us himself that there is no inherently bad breed, just bad training and a bad environment (and this is a guy who trained police dogs)- People train their dogs to bark and growl at strangers, then act surprised when their dog takes a bite out of someone's ass- The same with dogs attacking cats- The trainer was telling the story about how he knew someone that brought a very aggressive police dog home, and it attacked one of the guy's kittens- That guy called the trainer, and a couple sessions with a shock collar later, you couldnt get that dog anywhere near a cat-
It's all in how you train them- But the lesson about touching a wounded animal is a good one-

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 9:16 PM

ZOID


SevenPercent and Hardware:

I've got kind of old fashioned ideas about dogs. By 'old fashioned', I mean as in why did cave men first invite wolves to live by their hearths? For protection against predators.

Dogs and men have been in a symbiotic relationship ever since. I'd venture that the 'house wolf' was the first such human-animal partnership. Since then, Mankind has been playing an active role in Darwin's game, as it applies to the characteristics of the 'dog'.

Dogs -- like individual men -- have different temperaments. The trick is in finding the breed that supplements your unique, personal needs. Again, I think dogs are for keeping predators (mostly two-legged, these days) out of the 'cave'. I don't own firearms, because I don't trust them. I don't trust my own resolve to use them, and if I did take another life, I don't trust my ability to overcome the emotional grief it would cause me, even if I was totally justified. My GSD -- not Jayne just yet because he's only 8 months old -- Thor would lay waste to an intruder without hesitation and eat a hearty steak afterward. (God rest him, where ever good dogs go) When I had him put down, I stayed with him through the procedure, got out of the vet's as quick as I could and drove to deserted park and cried for the better part of an hour...

I train my own dogs. I do this by not training them. I tell them what's right and what's wrong. I recognize Mal's handling of Jayne as identical to my own, which is why I think Jayne is Serenity's 'ship wolf'. I am the alpha dog in my cave (like Mal is alpha to Jayne), and my dogs know that.

Having said that, it's another reason I prefer GSDs. If you get one with a good pedigree, that doesn't run and hide and looks you in the eye as a puppy, you can't go far wrong. Take a firm hand with the dog, praise it when it does well, feed/water/bathe/curry them and keep it indoors with you (no 'yard dog' abandonment), and the dog trains itself. A GSD will attach itself to your family and your home, and you will never find a more steadfast friend and defender in a human (similar to Hardware's tagline).

The criminal mentality works something like this: I'm a criminal and I'm a coward. I want to break into your house and steal your belongings, preferably while you're out. I also don't want there to be a big ruckus, which might rouse the suspicions of the neighbors/police.

Criminal sneaks up to front/side/back door of my house and opens the outer glass door. Suddenly, criminal hears 90lb Jayne's deep, rich, loud basso roar (he's only a pup, but he sounds impressive). Criminal shakes feces from inside of trouser leg, then goes next door, where they only have a Pomeranian.

This is the ideal situation. A proper 'house wolf' is a deterrent first. If the criminal insists on coming in (and I've got nothing worth having that badly), he'd better be a pretty good shot in the dark. I reckon it'll take about two years to get Jayne fully up to speed; but, I know his predecessor, Thor, would've done truly horrifying things to a prowler entering our house. The criminal would have to shoot him dead on the first shot, or he'd be needing some medical attention; and multiple shots would alert our neighborhood. Most criminals are pretty stupid, but not that stupid. Usually, criminals are just looking for the soft target. Big dog = go someplace else where the pickings are easy.

I have one dog (Jayne) and one mouser (Little Cat, not very imaginative I know). My wife on the other hand has got a number of 'baby substitute' miniature this-and-thats. My dog plays with them: he holds his mouth open and they climb inside. "Now, does that seem right to you?"


Respectfully,

zoid
P.S.
Tomorrow's posts (if I do any) will be the new Jayne quote. Gotta have principles: Monday's the day. Hope y'all like it; pressure to do well causes zoid to smoke. ;)
_________________________________________________

"River and me was best friends, back then. I named my first-born daughter after her. 'Course, you can't swing a dead cat 'round here on I-Day without hittin' a River..."

- Kaywinnit Tam, wife and mother of 6, A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 9:48 PM

SEVENPERCENT


I wish I had one that was a threat to criminals everywhere- Oh, Victor Hugo is a huge dog, but if the crook gets past the loud bark and the size, at worst he might possibly be licked to death- I can see the look on Hugo's face now:
-What are you stealing? Can I help? I'll help if you pet me. Have you seen my treat ball? Lets play tug-

Also, I never answered the initial post- Serentiy Pes-

-Inara: Kitty - Persian, or Siamese- I'm not thinking big cat (leopard or such), but it's definitely a cat-
-Wash: Someone earlier said monkey- I can see that.
-Kaylee: As a lab owner, I can see Kaylee with a big ol' lazy labrador- Friendly, dopey, etc.
-Jayne: I could see Jayne with a 'football dog' - I have a friend of mine, big guy, who wanted to me to meet his dog, Bruiser- I'm expecting Doberman, I got Dachsund - It's nine pounds, I think it could concievably bruise my ankles.
-Simon: Hamsters is nice- Or fish-
-Zoe: Dog- Now, Zoe owns a Shepherd- Which wants to eat Wash's monkey- I could see this.
-Mal: I have no idea- I would initially say dog, and then think to myself, no, it just doesnt fit for some reason I cant put my finger on- I almost say cat with Mal- Independent, self-reliant- But that isnt right either- Hopefully I'll think of it (gives me an excuse to watch the episodes again- Not that I need one, but, ya know)


------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Sunday, April 25, 2004 10:55 PM

HARDWARE


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
SevenPercent and Hardware:

I've got kind of old fashioned ideas about dogs. By 'old fashioned', I mean as in why did cave men first invite wolves to live by their hearths? For protection against predators.

Dogs and men have been in a symbiotic relationship ever since. I'd venture that the 'house wolf' was the first such human-animal partnership. Since then, Mankind has been playing an active role in Darwin's game, as it applies to the characteristics of the 'dog'.


I train my own dogs. I do this by not training them. I tell them what's right and what's wrong.

Take a firm hand with the dog, praise it when it does well, feed/water/bathe/curry them and keep it indoors with you (no 'yard dog' abandonment), and the dog trains itself.


AMEN to that! Keep that dog inside, let it know it is family and spell out your expectations and any dog with half a brain will get the idea.
Quote:


(similar to Hardware's tagline).


Can't take credit. It is a quote by Madame DeStael
Quote:


I have one dog (Jayne) and one mouser (Little Cat, not very imaginative I know). My wife on the other hand has got a number of 'baby substitute' miniature this-and-thats. My dog plays with them: he holds his mouth open and they climb inside. "Now, does that seem right to you?"


I've got an American Staffordshire Terrier, an American Pit Bull Terrier, Two cats and a Boston Terrier that pushes everyone around. I've seen that Boston take full, open mouth bites out of both bigger dogs and they tolerate her. Go figure.

And since I never answered the original question...
Wash, monkey, definitely a small monkey, like a spider monkey.

Zoe, a songbird. Something that could be easily kept in their quarters and bring enjoyment to her and Wash.

Kaylee, a ferret. for those of you who read Sluggy Freelance, think Kiki.

Jayne, a rat. I know what you're thinking but lab rats make good pets.

Inara, At most fish. She has to think of her clients and they might be allergic or phobic.

Simon, an iguana. Something he doesn't have to think about a lot.

River, a parrot. I can imagine it flying in the cargo hold and pooping on Jayne's weight set. Then again I can imagine it speaking eerily appropriate dialogue out of nowhere too.

Book, a dog. Definitely a dog.

Mal, if nothing else Mal would own a horse.

Serenity, since everyone can't have pets or Serenity would become a menagerie in space, then Serenity gets a pet and everyone can share it. I'd say a dog. It would probably live with Book. It would listen to River. Simon would probably loathe it, which of course would make it love him. Inara would have to constantly try to keep it out of her shuttle, but she would sneak it little treats from the dinner table. It would keep Wash company on the bridge and visit with Kaylee in the engine room. Jayne would tell it to get off the couch and it would ignore him. Zoe would scratch it behind the ears when she was doing something else. And mostly it would lean on Mal's leg and heave a big contented sigh.


The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Monday, April 26, 2004 5:08 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
By 'old fashioned', I mean as in why did cave men first invite wolves to live by their hearths? For protection against predators.

Someone around Usenet once had a tagline that went:

Quote:

Dogs may have accompanied early man on the hunt, but it was cats who insisted that he discover fire and build temples.


I suspect that anyone who has lived with a cat will get that one.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, April 26, 2004 9:46 AM

ZOID



SevenPercent wrote:
Quote:

I wish I had one that was a threat to criminals everywhere- Oh, Victor Hugo is a huge dog, but if the crook gets past the loud bark and the size, at worst he might possibly be licked to death- I can see the look on Hugo's face now:
-What are you stealing? Can I help? I'll help if you pet me. Have you seen my treat ball? Lets play tug-



One story sticks in my mind about Thor (God of Thunder), my previous GSD. He was really too big for a proper Shepherd, weighing in at over 150lbs in his prime; very tall, but otherwise classic lines. One day, this delivery man came strolling up into our driveway. The kids -- one 2 years old, the other 6 -- were playing in the front lawn and Thor was tethered to the house to dry, having just had a bath. I was behind my car finishing up chamoising the deck. As soon as the guy set foot on our driveway, Thor went ballistic: chain pulled taut (almost defaced the iron railing), front paws splayed to the sides in front, rear end high, tail low; rows of long teeth like daggers bared and scissoring, as he barked in staccato reports like gunshots. I swear every hair on that dog's body were standing on end. Like I said, he was an oversized GSD, and he looked twice his normal size. It was kinda like watching David Banner turn into the Hulk right in front of your eyes...

Well, needless to say, I yelled "Freeze!" to the guy. I got in Thor's line of sight between him and the hapless delivery man, and got him calmed down. Thor immediately thought he'd done something wrong and went submissive, but I praised him softly, "Good dog" and petted him to further soothe him.

Then I went back to where the guy still stood frozen and apologized and helped him pick up his packages, which were strewn across the front lawn like he'd exploded. The delivery man was a little shaken, but said, "Wow. That's a big dog."

I said as good-naturedly as I could manage, "Yeah, he sure is."

Thor never usually reacted that strongly toward strangers; but I figure the combination of the kids being in the front yard, me being behind the car, him being chained out, and the guy coming between him and the children set Thor off. It was a pretty intense scene; but, I never had any doubts about my home's security as long as Thor drew breath.

Owning a 'house wolf' is as dangerous as owning a gun, in many ways. You've got to be on your guard and aware of your surroundings. I doubt seriously the guy would've gotten close enough to Thor to get hurt (whereas, 'urban legend' has it that Dobies will let an intruder get into their attack range before they bark), but if the chain had snapped or the guy had had a heart attack... The thought sobers me.


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

(Of River) "Little Sis? I could see big things for her all along. Her and her brother both. I always knew they'd be worth something, y'know?"

- Jayne Cobb, Game Warden and co-proprietor, "Cretaceous Park", Hera; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Monday, April 26, 2004 10:27 AM

SEVENPERCENT


Zoid, that thing you heard about Dobermans reminds me of another one the trainer told me, about a police Shepherd (and I saw the dog, which was about the same size as yours, 150 or so)- The guy was saying how difficult to train the dog was, because it had developed a 'sneakiness' about attacking people- It would let you think you were all buddies, get inside your arm range, then go for the throat- It would wag its tail, sit pretty, and when you got close enough it'd wreck you- We got to see the dog because he was doing a lot of intensive work with it when we trained ours-
Not to offend anyone out there, but I'm a big dog person myself though- If it's going to weigh less than 20 pounds, why dont you just get a kitty? To me, anything you could punt that couldnt take your leg off for doing it isnt worth having- One of my buddies owns a teacup Yorkie- I've seen bigger hamsters- You cant wrestle with them, they cant fetch anything heavy, they cant guard the house- Oh well, that's just me I guess..lol

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Monday, April 26, 2004 10:36 AM

MILORADELL


Just a thought - dogs are put down because they attack/appear to attack/bite. Protecting the family, home, etc. doesn't fly.

For instance - a while ago, the police stormed a home in MPLS because of so-called information that there was someone they were looking for in it. The dog, trying to protect his home/family, got aggressive. Didn't bite anyone. They shot him dead. Turned out their information was wrong, btw.

The same thing happened at another home, either St. Paul or MPLS, don't remember which. This time involving kids in the yard. The police stormed the fence, the dog ran to greet them - they said aggressively, the family disputes that, and the police shot him. Again, the police were at the wrong house.

So....my little shih tzu never has to fear that happening to her, since she is so small.

****
I know your name, Jackass.

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Monday, April 26, 2004 3:27 PM

LYRALYON


My list of Serenity Pets, an all dogs version:
Inara- Saluki
Book- Komondor
Zoe- German Shepherd, Schutzhund trained
Wash-(Parson?)Jack Russell Terrier
Mal- Shepherd/Collie mix
Jayne- Mastiff. Or a Fila. Or a Presa(sp?). Something along those lines.
Kaylee- Yorkie. Or maybe a Cocker Spaniel. Or a Lab.
Simon- Chow Chow
River- Wirehair Fox Terrier

I do dog grooming, and at the place where I work they also do training and confo shows and stuff, so lots of interesting people show up. We had a couple show up once that wanted someone to train their dog to stop sniffing the ground. That's right, they wanted to train their DOG to stop SNIFFING. What the heck?



Facts compel me to conclude that my brain was never formed for much thinking.-Charles Darwin

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Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:14 AM

MILORADELL


Quote:

That's right, they wanted to train their DOG to stop SNIFFING. What the heck?


ROFLMAO!!! Don't you wonder where some of these people come from??

****
I know your name, Jackass.

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Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:46 PM

PIFFLE101


Quote:

Originally posted by WhooDahn:


I think River would have a Chihuahua. Smallish, large eyes, a little neurotic.





I felt like reviving an old thread! Sue me! LOL

What's wierd..Summer actually owns a long haired Chihuahua named Duga. Odd... Very odd..



-------------------------------------------------
Because Dancers are tough,mean...Chicas!! -Summer Glau

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Sunday, December 18, 2005 12:04 AM

WHOODAHN


Quote:

Originally posted by Piffle101:
Quote:

Originally posted by WhooDahn:


I think River would have a Chihuahua. Smallish, large eyes, a little neurotic.





I felt like reviving an old thread! Sue me! LOL

What's wierd..Summer actually owns a long haired Chihuahua named Duga. Odd... Very odd..



This is an old thread!

Do you think Duga had a middle name?

Hole?

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Sunday, December 18, 2005 1:09 AM

DC4BS



Jaynes Hamster:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/jwz/543178.html

------------------------------------------
dc4bs

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Sunday, December 18, 2005 2:14 AM

WHOODAHN


Quote:

Originally posted by dc4bs:

Jaynes Hamster:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/jwz/543178.html



I think Jayne has a little Maltese dog with pick ribbon. Jayne has a soft spot as big as the 'verse.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Sunday, December 18, 2005 4:05 AM

ENGINEANGEL


In regards to the whole scene that Hardware wrote about Mal and the pit, pure genius! I loved it. the characters were right on (except for Jayne - he is not THAT cruel). I'd recommend to you making a fanfic out of it - Pets On Serenity. I think everyone having a pet would be too much but some would be cool.

Mal: the pit (but only if found in that way)
Zoe: I think she might share Wash's, you know, a family pet. but she would NOT stand for a monkey. maybe they would both like a sheperd (one of the long haired black and white ones?) a goofy one!!!

IN THE MARKET:
Wash: come on zoe!!! look at him!!! he's soooo cute!!
Zoe: he's a monkey...
Wash: yeah...
Zoe: a monkey lamby toes?? (zoe looks at him with a disbelieving expression on her face)
Wash: he could help me in the cockpit! they're very smart you know.
Zoe: wash...
Wash: what???? we could name him fred.
Zoe. wash.... (exasperated)
Wash: (interupts) or bob!
Zoe: wash, we are not getting a monkey.
Wash: but lambytoes...
Zoe: captian wouldn't want it on the ship.
Wash: oh here comes the captian again. always what the captian wants...
Zoe: wash, don't be like that. maybe we can find something else.
Wash: yeah well (kinda moody now)
(NEXT TIME THEY'RE ON LAND THEY FIND THEIR DOG)

ACTUALLY, nobody take this. I want to write a fanfic on it. Do i have permission to use your scene hardware??? i'll include you in the thanks for the scene!!

keep Flyin'
EngineAngel

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Sunday, December 18, 2005 4:32 AM

SERYN


posted all the way up there, by Whoodan

'I'm not sure about Book. When he pokes his head around the corner looking for River with his hair sticking out, it reminds me of something but I can't put my finger on it. Any ideas?'

go to - http://www.pettittsadventurepark.co.uk/animalCorner.asp?animal=tamarin

does that help?


AS for pets for the crew/pets who remind you of the crew/own pets

Between my sisters house and mine we have three dogs, a giant schnauzer (sleek intelligent, with masses of curly black hair)a greatdane/neo mastiff/old english mastiff mix (a little dim, food oriented, but will back you up no probs) and a pure bread old english mastiff (really good looking dog for his breed and fiercly loyal to his family - do they remind you of anyone?)

With them being such large dogs - the biggest, the OEM, stands shoulder height at my hip bone, (I'm 5'8'')- all of their training has been very much focused on 'you do what I say, and you do it sharpish'
They are incredible animals,really gentle kind and sweet, and playful! My 4 year old niece has grown up around them her entire life and there has never been any worry on that score (we once found the dane cross attempting to change her diaper) and my cat is safe with them (though her food bowl ain't) even though they were introduced when both mature and the schnauzer was trained by her first owner to attack cats.

All three, (four, five?) breeds were originally bred for aggressive purposes (the mastiffs to attack and kill the warhorses of mounted knights, and the schnauzer is used as a police dog in germany for it's size and intelligence) but all three animals know when aggression is required and when not, and thats instinctive, not taught - we have never trained them as attack or guard dogs, they simply look out for their pack and monitor intruders intently. When out side one automatically stays in the rear, another in front while another 'ranges', searching hidden areas for threats and checking back regularly, all protecting us and most importantly my niece, its uncanny, but very reassuring. I have no qualms about being out at night in 'dangerous' areas, not because my dog is vicious but simply cause she is so much more aware and capable than me, plus the very sight of her is a deterent.

so thats what I think the crew of serenity would have if they did have animals - not exactly working guard dogs, but more 'members of the pack' - a bunch of dogs capable of acting indepentandly, to be alert and warn of threats and possibly deal with those threats if necessary, while the human crew gets down to the business of robbing banks and dealing with the likes of Badger and Patience, at the same time, the likes of Wash, Book, kaylee and River relating to them as beloved companions.

Lets face it, would Mal let any animal on board if it couldn't earn its keep? they eat dogs in this 'verse, if its not useful, its chow mein.


The only issue is the powerful bad problem with doggy gas, but maybe they could turn it into chemical weapons against the reavers...

-------------------------------------------
'do not fear me, ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony'

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Sunday, December 18, 2005 6:07 AM

HARDWARE


Quote:

Originally posted by engineangel:
Do i have permission to use your scene hardware??? i'll include you in the thanks for the scene!!

keep Flyin'
EngineAngel



Permission granted for use in a fanfic.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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