GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Visiting/Colonizing Mars

POSTED BY: KRELLEK
UPDATED: Monday, November 8, 2010 18:21
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1216
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Sunday, August 29, 2010 10:24 AM

KRELLEK


has anyone, heard or have there own thoughts and/or ideas regarding this subject?:-)

like how to Terraform it.

and a somewhat important question i think, that i know is somewhat farther out in the future, how do earth and mars avoid a possible reenactment of the colonial war that england and its colonies in the land areas that was to become USA ended up fighting against each other


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Sunday, August 29, 2010 11:17 AM

CYBERSNARK




Wikipedia comes through again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars

It generally would need added water (not a problem), a thicker atmosphere (difficult, but doable), raising the temperature (again, difficult, but not impossible), and increasing the planet's magnetic field (that's the tough part).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, August 29, 2010 11:45 AM

KIRKULES


I think we have the technology to terraform Mars, the problem is that even using artificial means it will take hundreds of years. If we use a natural approach using bacteria and plant life from earth it will take thousands of years. The first step is to find out if any life already exists on Mars and preserve it for future generations. If there is no native life we could begin by introducing plant life that would grow on the polar ice and absorb sunlight to produce liquid water. If we can't find a Earth organism that will grow on the ice cap, some have suggested covering them with a black dust of some type. Liquid water and water vapor are the first things necessary for the introduction of more advanced life forms. Any way you look at it the first human inhabitants of Mars will need to live underground for protection from harmful radiation from the Sun until a dense atmosphere can be engineered.

ETA: Even with a dense atmosphere the lack of a strong magnetic field on Mars will make dealing with cosmic rays a big problem to overcome.

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Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:55 PM

ALPS2007


Have any of you ever played the greatest game ever.....Mass Effect. This is there explanation of Mars.

"Once considered a prospect for terraforming and colonization, the discovery of faster than light travel turned Mars into a quiet backwater. Its southern pole is a historical preserve centered on the Prothean ruins found there. Immigration and development are restricted as the search for Prothean artifacts continues."
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mars

Im kind of going with that i hope we find the technology just to even travel at the speed of light to avoid wasting time on mars. The universe never ends so im thinking there should be planets out there that we might be able just to live on. According to me there just has to be different life forms as well.

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Monday, August 30, 2010 6:49 AM

KRELLEK


Very nice indeed :-) thanks :-)

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Monday, August 30, 2010 2:57 PM

ZZETTA13


Well…….since you’re askin, I do have some thoughts on this subject.

First, I don’t think we’ll see visitation or colonization of the Red Planet in our lifetime. Why? Because humankind has become too cautions. Not to say that, that is a bad thing, it’s just to say that the inhabitants of earth have place the bar of not losing a human life out in the blackness of space down to 0 (zero). Which as we all know is impossible!

The old seafarers of yesteryear knew there was always a chance their bodies would never be recovered had they become lost in the vastness of the earth‘s oceans, yet their essence would remain a part of this world. Not so with a victim of space travel. If you’re lost in the void you’re just out there in the nothingness. Sorry about being so morbid but it’s just how I see it and it’s a primal fear that resides in everyone’s soul. Theory of Relativity, you are born of the earth- you are a living soul of the earth- and when you die you will become a part of the earth……unless you exhaust out in the blankness of the universe, where does you essence end up then?

Now, a good way to visit and explore the Red Planet is by robot, and I DO mean Terminator style machines. This is the way I see us exploring the landscape of Mars in the near future, by robot. Robots will become the true Martians until that time when the first human baby is born on that world.

I do think it will happen, but it is a hell of a long way off.

Z

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Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:12 AM

KRELLEK


Quote:

Originally posted by zzetta13:
Well…….since you’re askin, I do have some thoughts on this subject.

First, I don’t think we’ll see visitation or colonization of the Red Planet in our lifetime. Why? Because humankind has become too cautions. Not to say that, that is a bad thing, it’s just to say that the inhabitants of earth have place the bar of not losing a human life out in the blackness of space down to 0 (zero). Which as we all know is impossible!

The old seafarers of yesteryear knew there was always a chance their bodies would never be recovered had they become lost in the vastness of the earth‘s oceans, yet their essence would remain a part of this world. Not so with a victim of space travel. If you’re lost in the void you’re just out there in the nothingness. Sorry about being so morbid but it’s just how I see it and it’s a primal fear that resides in everyone’s soul. Theory of Relativity, you are born of the earth- you are a living soul of the earth- and when you die you will become a part of the earth……unless you exhaust out in the blankness of the universe, where does you essence end up then?

Now, a good way to visit and explore the Red Planet is by robot, and I DO mean Terminator style machines. This is the way I see us exploring the landscape of Mars in the near future, by robot. Robots will become the true Martians until that time when the first human baby is born on that world.

I do think it will happen, but it is a hell of a long way off.

Z



I see your point, and well not that i am not that spiritual a person, but if there is such a thing as a spirit or soul, I would believe it could find it´s way back to earth, or where it might want to go.
budhism might see in another way. but i am not sure.

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Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Since the mood by our politicians is to placate the masses and eschew from endeavors which may ultimately help humanity, governments probably won't be doing much to get this done.

It's going to take a Richard Branson, Bill Gates sort of individual, one who has achieved on so many levels, that they are now driven into other areas, to that ultimate undiscovered country, simply because others say it can't be done.

We've wasted far too long on this rock. I believe we've stumbled and set ourselves back, technologically, for too long. Humanity could have made this step centuries ago, imo, were it not for petty infighting and backwards thinking.

Those sad qualities won't be going away. We're at the point now, technologically speaking, where it's with in our grasp. I say we jump...and make that bold move. If we fritter around for too long, humanity will slide back , and it may very be another 1000 years before we come around and wake up.






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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 6:06 AM

ZZETTA13


Krellek, AURaptor

I would really enjoy spending a week or two vacation on Mars. Just think, stepping out on the terrace of the “Giant Face of Mars” hotel, and seeing the wonders of the great canals and Mars pyramids. Totally awesome!!

Anyway, like I said, vacation only. After a couple weeks I’d want to go to the Martian space port so that I could come back to earth. Which ain’t gonna happen in my lifetime.

Still, I think robots are the way to go. They could be constructed to do almost everything, from building a livable human shelter above ground, to digging underground quarters for humans to get away from those harsh Mars wind storms. Even this( robots) seems like a long time from happening.

I agree, it will take the right group on people, with the right attitude and determination to get it done. The private sector will be the ones who succeed in doing this I feel.

Just some thoughts, Z

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Friday, September 3, 2010 5:06 AM

CYBERSNARK


Just came across this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11137903

Quote:

A lonely island in the middle of the South Atlantic conceals Charles Darwin's best-kept secret.

Two hundred years ago, Ascension Island was a barren volcanic edifice.

Today, its peaks are covered by lush tropical "cloud forest".

What happened in the interim is the amazing story of how the architect of evolution, Kew Gardens and the Royal Navy conspired to build a fully functioning, but totally artificial ecosystem.

By a bizarre twist, this great imperial experiment may hold the key to the future colonisation of Mars.

[. . .]

"What it tells us is that we can build a fully functioning ecosystem through a series of chance accidents or trial and error."

In effect, what Darwin, Hooker and the Royal Navy achieved was the world's first experiment in "terra-forming". They created a self-sustaining and self-reproducing ecosystem in order to make Ascension Island more habitable.

Wilkinson thinks that the principles that emerge from that experiment could be used to transform future colonies on Mars. In other words, rather than trying to improve an environment by force, the best approach might be to work with life to help it "find its own way".



-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Friday, September 3, 2010 5:21 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


You should check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy

"Green Mars—Terraforming
Green Mars takes its title from the stage of terraforming that has allowed plants to grow. It picks up the story from Red Mars, following the lives of the remaining First Hundred and their children and grandchildren. Hiroko Ai's base under the south pole is attacked by UN forces, and the survivors are forced to escape into a (less literal) underground organization known as the Demimonde. Among the expanded group are the First Hundred's children, the Nisei, a number of whom live in Ai's second secret base, Zygote.
As unrest in the multinational control over Mars' affairs grow, various groups start to form with different aims and methods. Watching these groups evolve from Earth, the CEO of the Praxis Corporation sends a representative, Arthur Randolph, to organize the resistance movements. This culminates into the Dorsa Brevia agreement, in which nearly all the underground factions take part. Preparations are made for a second revolution beginning in the 2120s.
The book follows the characters across the martian landscape, which is explained in detail. As Sax Russell's character infiltrates the transnat terraforming project, the newly evolving martian biosphere is described at great length. A mainstay of the novel is a detailed analysis of philosophical, political, personal, economical, and geological experiences of the characters. The story weaves back and forth from character to character, providing a picture of Mars as seen by them.
One major event is a sudden, catastrophic rise in Earth's global sea levels, which is caused not primarily by any greenhouse effect but by the eruption of a chain of volcanoes underneath the ice of west Antarctica, disintegrating the ice sheet and displacing the fragments into the ocean."

Pretty good read, especially for what you are interested in.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Sunday, September 5, 2010 10:27 AM

KRELLEK


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
You should check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy

"Green Mars—Terraforming
Green Mars takes its title from the stage of terraforming that has allowed plants to grow. It picks up the story from Red Mars, following the lives of the remaining First Hundred and their children and grandchildren. Hiroko Ai's base under the south pole is attacked by UN forces, and the survivors are forced to escape into a (less literal) underground organization known as the Demimonde. Among the expanded group are the First Hundred's children, the Nisei, a number of whom live in Ai's second secret base, Zygote.
As unrest in the multinational control over Mars' affairs grow, various groups start to form with different aims and methods. Watching these groups evolve from Earth, the CEO of the Praxis Corporation sends a representative, Arthur Randolph, to organize the resistance movements. This culminates into the Dorsa Brevia agreement, in which nearly all the underground factions take part. Preparations are made for a second revolution beginning in the 2120s.
The book follows the characters across the martian landscape, which is explained in detail. As Sax Russell's character infiltrates the transnat terraforming project, the newly evolving martian biosphere is described at great length. A mainstay of the novel is a detailed analysis of philosophical, political, personal, economical, and geological experiences of the characters. The story weaves back and forth from character to character, providing a picture of Mars as seen by them.
One major event is a sudden, catastrophic rise in Earth's global sea levels, which is caused not primarily by any greenhouse effect but by the eruption of a chain of volcanoes underneath the ice of west Antarctica, disintegrating the ice sheet and displacing the fragments into the ocean."

Pretty good read, especially for what you are interested in.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com



I have heard of that book series, but never had the chance to read it

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Sunday, September 5, 2010 10:27 AM

KRELLEK


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
You should check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy

"Green Mars—Terraforming
Green Mars takes its title from the stage of terraforming that has allowed plants to grow. It picks up the story from Red Mars, following the lives of the remaining First Hundred and their children and grandchildren. Hiroko Ai's base under the south pole is attacked by UN forces, and the survivors are forced to escape into a (less literal) underground organization known as the Demimonde. Among the expanded group are the First Hundred's children, the Nisei, a number of whom live in Ai's second secret base, Zygote.
As unrest in the multinational control over Mars' affairs grow, various groups start to form with different aims and methods. Watching these groups evolve from Earth, the CEO of the Praxis Corporation sends a representative, Arthur Randolph, to organize the resistance movements. This culminates into the Dorsa Brevia agreement, in which nearly all the underground factions take part. Preparations are made for a second revolution beginning in the 2120s.
The book follows the characters across the martian landscape, which is explained in detail. As Sax Russell's character infiltrates the transnat terraforming project, the newly evolving martian biosphere is described at great length. A mainstay of the novel is a detailed analysis of philosophical, political, personal, economical, and geological experiences of the characters. The story weaves back and forth from character to character, providing a picture of Mars as seen by them.
One major event is a sudden, catastrophic rise in Earth's global sea levels, which is caused not primarily by any greenhouse effect but by the eruption of a chain of volcanoes underneath the ice of west Antarctica, disintegrating the ice sheet and displacing the fragments into the ocean."

Pretty good read, especially for what you are interested in.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com



I have heard of that book series, but never had the chance to read it

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Sunday, September 5, 2010 10:27 AM

KRELLEK


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
You should check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy

"Green Mars—Terraforming
Green Mars takes its title from the stage of terraforming that has allowed plants to grow. It picks up the story from Red Mars, following the lives of the remaining First Hundred and their children and grandchildren. Hiroko Ai's base under the south pole is attacked by UN forces, and the survivors are forced to escape into a (less literal) underground organization known as the Demimonde. Among the expanded group are the First Hundred's children, the Nisei, a number of whom live in Ai's second secret base, Zygote.
As unrest in the multinational control over Mars' affairs grow, various groups start to form with different aims and methods. Watching these groups evolve from Earth, the CEO of the Praxis Corporation sends a representative, Arthur Randolph, to organize the resistance movements. This culminates into the Dorsa Brevia agreement, in which nearly all the underground factions take part. Preparations are made for a second revolution beginning in the 2120s.
The book follows the characters across the martian landscape, which is explained in detail. As Sax Russell's character infiltrates the transnat terraforming project, the newly evolving martian biosphere is described at great length. A mainstay of the novel is a detailed analysis of philosophical, political, personal, economical, and geological experiences of the characters. The story weaves back and forth from character to character, providing a picture of Mars as seen by them.
One major event is a sudden, catastrophic rise in Earth's global sea levels, which is caused not primarily by any greenhouse effect but by the eruption of a chain of volcanoes underneath the ice of west Antarctica, disintegrating the ice sheet and displacing the fragments into the ocean."

Pretty good read, especially for what you are interested in.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com



I have heard of that book series, but never had the chance to read it

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Sunday, September 5, 2010 10:42 AM

KRELLEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Just came across this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11137903

Quote:

A lonely island in the middle of the South Atlantic conceals Charles Darwin's best-kept secret.

Two hundred years ago, Ascension Island was a barren volcanic edifice.

Today, its peaks are covered by lush tropical "cloud forest".

What happened in the interim is the amazing story of how the architect of evolution, Kew Gardens and the Royal Navy conspired to build a fully functioning, but totally artificial ecosystem.

By a bizarre twist, this great imperial experiment may hold the key to the future colonisation of Mars.

[. . .]

"What it tells us is that we can build a fully functioning ecosystem through a series of chance accidents or trial and error."

In effect, what Darwin, Hooker and the Royal Navy achieved was the world's first experiment in "terra-forming". They created a self-sustaining and self-reproducing ecosystem in order to make Ascension Island more habitable.

Wilkinson thinks that the principles that emerge from that experiment could be used to transform future colonies on Mars. In other words, rather than trying to improve an environment by force, the best approach might be to work with life to help it "find its own way".



-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.



Very interesting indeed, I wonder if there could happen something similar could be done on mars, well there is of cause the small problems of CO2based atmosphere, that is still quite thin, and it is very cold, but with little help, perhaps by some kind of nanomachines, perhaps some great mirrors in orbit too would help, and if so could just find a way to magnetossphere to ward of the atmossphere thining higly energized particles from the sun

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Sunday, September 5, 2010 12:16 PM

CYBERSNARK


CO2 is only a problem for animals; plants would like it (and plants seem to have a greater tolerance for radiation as well, so they could get started oxigenating while we figure out how to spin up the magnetosphere).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, September 6, 2010 6:38 AM

KRELLEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
CO2 is only a problem for animals; plants would like it (and plants seem to have a greater tolerance for radiation as well, so they could get started oxigenating while we figure out how to spin up the magnetosphere).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.



well i once read somewhere that yes plants like CO2 but for some reason it would still need a little O2, but if that was somehow faulty, sorry

do you think there are any kinds of moss on the very high moutains that could survive on mars, without just a little tweaking somehow to make them more resistant to the low temps on mars?

and sorry about the tripple post, it seemed to have trouble accepting post yesterday, and then suddenly there was 3 post saying the same

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Saturday, October 23, 2010 1:42 AM

KRELLEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
CO2 is only a problem for animals; plants would like it (and plants seem to have a greater tolerance for radiation as well, so they could get started oxigenating while we figure out how to spin up the magnetosphere).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.



I saw a program on Discovery some days ago, about the reversal of the magnetic pole(mag-N pole going south, and S-pole going north geoghaphical speaking, and the problems following the waning strenght of the magnetosphere that would follow, well they made an experiment to look at the magnetic fields from the molten outer core, and the solid inner core, by makeing a sphere, one solid metal(iron or steel)sphere incased in a hollow one filled with liquid metal(cannot remember what it was, but it was something that easilly melted) and began to spin them both(solid and and liquid, not sure how with the liquid metal) and then began to reach a number of rotations a minut or so of both of them, the began to get readings similar to the mag field, sure it might not be as strong, but what if many(perhaps thousands) of these where set up around the world, and ultimately also on mars would that not give a similar effect, maybe some other metals would be better to use too.

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:55 AM

KRELLEK


bump

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 7:46 PM

CATPIRATE


First we need to build ships that don't require alot of maintenance like aircraft. Not to mention powerplants that work without fuel or upkeep. Start with the toilets first. I do think it was a crime to bring the shuttle back into the atmo with a heat shield missing. A good wrench with a field kit could have evaluated the repair, fixed it, or called for a rescue rocket with parts on board to help. Make sense.

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Monday, November 8, 2010 6:21 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Any traveler to Mars is required to bring a bag of golf. A really, really, REALLY big bag...


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBo
x&&sa=X&ei=gcrYTI6fDIP6lwf219mXCQ&ved=0CBIQBSgA&q=golf+ball+crater+mars&spell=1


And bring Slim Whitman's Indian Love Call.




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