GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Dollhouse - Episode 2 Much Better - No spoilers

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Monday, October 5, 2009 20:23
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VIEWED: 3989
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Sunday, October 4, 2009 7:31 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I don't know if you guys caught it on Friday, I just watched it tonite on Hulu, but it was much better and really getting interesting.

So, before I go any further. Let me know what you think. This season it seems to me that we're going on a journey with Echo. BTW an old friend returns.

OK, I'll say no more.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Sunday, October 4, 2009 8:07 PM

CALHOUN


I love Joss

That being said.. I could not remain awake during this episode.. I wasn't even tired!

Dollhouse is losing me, in truth it hasn't really had me yet.

Sorry Joss

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Monday, October 5, 2009 3:24 AM

GWEK


I felt like the second episode was a huge step down from the caliber of the first one. Reminded me of the "gimmick" stand-alones from Season One.

I'm a huge Joss fan--bought Season One just to support the show, even though I didn't like it enough to own--but I am one bad episode away from not watching. If Whedon weren't attached to it, I wouldn't have made it this far.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Monday, October 5, 2009 3:39 AM

EVILDINOSAUR


I enjoyed it, but I seem to be in the minority.

Select to view spoiler:


I thought it was cool how they brought back November to draw the parallel between how people handle emotions. November who gave up her grief and just had it wiped away, and Echo who wants to keep it because it helps define her.



"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Monday, October 5, 2009 4:42 AM

SCOUSERATHEART


I worry for Dollhouse if they continue to produce these type of episodes. I have to agree with the perspective that this ep was quite poor. The sub-plots (Topher/Ballard and Mellie/Adelle) were adequate, but the Echo plot was stilted and awkward. I TVR'd the show and watched it with my wife over the weekend. Our assessment: one of the worst eps yet. The problem, frankly, is that FOX wanted an Eliza vehicle, and Joss wants to tell a story with Eliza as only one of the crucial main characters. Whenever Dollhouse gets too Echo-centric, the quality plummets.

I really want Dollhouse to succeed. I really enjoy the eps that further the major themes Joss wants to explore - these Echo eps just get in the way. Imagine a second season where Echo hadn't escaped from Alpha. Tudyk and Dushku rampaging and a functioning Dollhouse trying to keep up. It gets rid of the Echo engagements and features the ensemble cast....

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Monday, October 5, 2009 6:28 AM

ZEEK


I'm in agreement that the actual engagements are the weakest part of the show. Who cares about the random issue of the week? I think at this point they'd be better served by just showing the Dolls very briefly leaving or returning from engagements and just stick to stories about the characters in the dollhouse.

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Monday, October 5, 2009 7:02 AM

BYTEMITE


I think partially what may be going on is that what Fox is looking for in a sci-fi is the next X-files. They seemed to be focused on trying to find a series to produce with a lot of stand-alone episodes that can be re-run at any time. Because this is the sci-fi format they had a lot of success with, they seem to be mistakenly assuming that it's the only format that works. I suppose, also, that issue of the week can appeal to a broader viewer base.

Anyway, I have to agree here. This episode was extremely blah, not only could I see every twist coming from a mile away, but it had the wrong focus.

Select to view spoiler:


We already KNOW that Echo is a Doll, it was obvious that her husband wasn't going to hurt her or the baby. There was no tension there. What we SHOULD have seen was the husband becoming increasingly worried by Echo's increasing paranoia, and not knowing what Echo was about to do. We got a little of this back when Echo was wiped and went after them anyway, but crazy baby snatcher with a knife? Come on. I think Eliza Dushku CAN act, but give her something interesting and new to work with. She phoned in that performance, and I don't blame her.



And then the scene with the park bench at the end... Just very, very blah.

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Monday, October 5, 2009 7:57 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


I think partially what may be going on is that what Fox is looking for in a sci-fi is the next X-files. They seemed to be focused on trying to find a series to produce with a lot of stand-alone episodes that can be re-run at any time.



Thing is, they don't seem to realize that they already have that, with Fringe. The eps are stand-alones, but they're ALSO part of a larger story arc, but you don't really have to watch them all episodically to get some enjoyment out of 'em. And they seem to have tapped into that X-Files vibe quite effectively.

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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Monday, October 5, 2009 8:12 AM

BYTEMITE


Well, it goes back to that "that seems to be the only format they think works" thing, because otherwise they wouldn't be forcing it on Dollhouse.

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Monday, October 5, 2009 9:36 AM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by scouseratheart:
The problem, frankly, is that FOX wanted an Eliza vehicle, and Joss wants to tell a story with Eliza as only one of the crucial main characters. Whenever Dollhouse gets too Echo-centric, the quality plummets.



I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't think Eliza is strong enough to be a lead actress. She has some solid riffs, but I wouldn't classify her as a flexible actress. Her technique gets old quickly when she is the focus of everything. I noticed it on Buffy too.

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Monday, October 5, 2009 3:55 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


at this point they'd be better served by just showing the Dolls very briefly leaving or returning from engagements and just stick to stories about the characters in the dollhouse.
____________________________________________________

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner........what do we have for him Johnny.

Good point,Thanks Zeek.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Monday, October 5, 2009 7:38 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by EvilDinosaur:
I thought it was cool how they brought back November to draw the parallel between how people handle emotions. November who gave up her grief and just had it wiped away, and Echo who wants to keep it because it helps define her.


I actually thought that part with Mellie really sucked. It was rationalized, in the first season, that Mellie went into the Dollhouse voluntarily because she couldn't cope with having lost her daughter child. Which is to say, to escape the bad emotions while being a Doll (which, while not wise perhaps, is humanly understandable). And not, as Mellie now explains, to emerge miraculously without the pain after her Dollhouse term was up! Now it's suddenly being presented as a 'Serve a five year long Dollhouse term, and you'll come out without the emotions that troubled you before!' thingy. That don't make no sense. I thought that showed rather bad scripting. A real "Ouch!" moment, for me.

The parallel was sweet, yes; and sour too, because I fear they twisted the original Mellie backstory, precisely to make the parallel work.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, October 5, 2009 8:23 PM

WHISPER


Quote:


I actually thought that part with Mellie really sucked. It was rationalized, in the first season, that Mellie went into the Dollhouse voluntarily because she couldn't cope with having lost her daughter child. Which is to say, to escape the bad emotions while being a Doll (which, while not wise perhaps, is humanly understandable). And not, as Mellie now explains, to emerge miraculously without the pain after her Dollhouse term was up! Now it's suddenly being presented as a 'Serve a five year long Dollhouse term, and you'll come out without the emotions that troubled you before!' thingy. That don't make no sense. I thought that showed rather bad scripting. A real "Ouch!" moment, for me.



I always thought there was something more to the motivation to join the Dollhouse, and the emotional easement post-dollhouse seemed appropriate. What would the benefit be of forgetting while serving the dollhouse if everything was restored exactly as it was when you entered? It would be like you woke up the next day. There would be no tangible time for you to have recovered from your traumatic experience. It may be 5 years for your body, but only a day for your mind. So to me it makes sense and it wasn't a bad script moment.

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