GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

The Operative (at the end of the movie...)

POSTED BY: SCHISM
UPDATED: Monday, February 16, 2009 22:01
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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:55 AM

SCHISM


I read this on Wiki;

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He then manages to give the Operative doubts about his mission by forcing him to watch a report by another Alliance officer, revealing that the Alliance itself was responsible for accidentally creating the Reavers in the course of mass mind control experiments on the planet Miranda. When Mal broadcasts this secret to the universe, the Operative admits defeat and decides to leave the Alliance, helping the crew piece Serenity back together after the damage sustained in the crash. In a deleted scene, he asks Mal how he went on after the Battle of Serenity Valley, where he lost everything, but Mal simply tells him that the Operative would need to learn that for himself, muttering to himself loudly, "What a whiner".
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I really wish that 'what a whiner' part wasn't deleted....but i guess they didn't want to lessen the impact of the ending.

However, I have a question....did the Operative REALLY help them rebuild the ship?

I just assumed he wandered over just as they were ready to leave.

Based on their last conversation (if I see you again, I will kill you) I doubted that they worked together on any projects. ;p

what do you guys think?


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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:28 AM

FREEBROWNCOAT


Watch the last five minutes again.



"... for patchin; up our hurts."

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:42 AM

ZEEK


I believe Mal thanks the operative for getting them the parts they need to repair Serenity. So, yeah I think he helped them.

Doesn't really erase all the people who died because of the operative's mission.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:03 AM

RIPWASH


I haven't seen the deleted scenes yet, but I took that dialog as meaning that the Operative basically left them alone and allowed them to fix up Serenity, letting them have parts as needed.

In terms of making up for all the people that died? I'm not sure that he really cared about that. He killed innocent men, women and children when he attached Shepherd's town without any remorse. I think he only said the line about "many innocent people are dying up there" as an attempt to play to Mal's softer side, to get Mal to lower his guard.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:06 AM

ZEEK


Well at the time the operative didn't care, but I bet he's reflecting now and a little more upset over it. I'm saying Mal cares though. Fixing Serenity is not going to make them even in Mal's mind. That's why he'd probably kill the operative if they cross paths again. Remember it wasn't just Book that got hit by the operative. It was everyone that ever helped the crew after a heist. That's a lot of dead friends.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:49 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
I haven't seen the deleted scenes yet, but I took that dialog as meaning that the Operative basically left them alone and allowed them to fix up Serenity, letting them have parts as needed.

In terms of making up for all the people that died? I'm not sure that he really cared about that. He killed innocent men, women and children when he attached Shepherd's town without any remorse. I think he only said the line about "many innocent people are dying up there" as an attempt to play to Mal's softer side, to get Mal to lower his guard.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas



I interpretted that as Mal had actually succeeded in getting the Operative angry, and that the Operative has a double standard about Alliance loyal innocents versus unaffiliated innocents. I thought it was just another bit of faulty logic Mal exposed when the two of them were facing off.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:44 PM

IMNOTHERE


Quote:

Originally posted by Schism:
Based on their last conversation (if I see you again, I will kill you) I doubted that they worked together on any projects. ;p

what do you guys think?



Remember - the operative still had a bunch of Alliance goons under his command. He could have ordered them to help and then stayed out of Mal's way.

Mal has his standards - I don't think he'd ever go out of his way just to kill someone, so unless the operative threatens Mal or his crew... or looks as if he might threaten Mal or his crew... or stands temptingly close to a running engine, he's probably safe.

Anyway, Mal has proved him wrong, and symbolically destroyed him, so that's worth something.

Also, it seems pretty obvious that Shepherd Book's backstory is not entirely dissimilar to that of the Operative. If Mal realized this, he might have been inclined to give the Operative a second chance.

(If Firefly was a time travelin' and unfeasible plastic surgery-type show, the Operative would probably have turned out to be Book).

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:02 PM

SCHISM


Upon my first watch of the movie, I wondered if, had the Op not killed Book (and their allies), if he would have given him a place onboard the ship, much like he did for Book initially (though not as aware of Book's fuzzy past at the time).

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:07 PM

WHOZIT


He got them medical attention since Simon was shot and could'nt do it.

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:36 AM

CAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
[Bthe Operative has a double standard about Alliance loyal innocents versus unaffiliated innocents.



I wouldn't say that. The Operative described himself as a monster. He believed that his acts were, in and of themselves, evil, but also that they would lead to less evil in the future.

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:06 PM

BYTEMITE


Oh, I agree with that. But he seemed to consider killing "innocent" alliance-loyal military personel who could live in his better world different from killing innocent rim-dwelling not-so loyal women and children on Haven who apparently couldn't.

And it also seemed to depend on whether HE was the one who made the choice to kill. By his account, neither he nor Mal can live in his perfect world, he is a monster, yet when he kills it is righteous. When Mal kills he becomes an avenging angel and makes it just another crime to punish Mal for.

It's an example of the hypocrisy the Operative represents, and his logic is a double standard.

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:32 PM

RALLEM


This is only my opinion but what the Operative said after the repairs were done about there being nothing left to see along with the deleted scenes makes me think he will find another way to find faith. Perhaps he'll become a Shepard.



http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 2:53 PM

FREEBROWNCOAT


He was looking for, and working toward, a world of perfection. Being an agent for the Parliament afforded him a means of accomplishing this. Upon their obvious betrayal of his personal values he left with his dream shattered. "Nothing left to see."

Fairly straight forward writing, actually.

The dleted scene with Mal muttering, "What a whiner," though HIlarious, didn't fit the scene and was rightfully left out.

Just straight characters trying to live in a crokked world. That's why I love Joss' writing. Seemingly simple words but uncovering a depth we all have in our lives. Gotta love it.



"There is nothing left to see."

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Schism:
Upon my first watch of the movie, I wondered if, had the Op not killed Book (and their allies), if he would have given him a place onboard the ship, much like he did for Book initially (though not as aware of Book's fuzzy past at the time).



I don't see much similar with Book and Operative, in Mal's view.
In the Pilot, Book gives Dobson the TKO at a critical moment, and Book never directly obstructs Mal from performing his "trade" or business. Book also ends up sharing a major secret - killing a Fed, so Mal & Zoe likely don't mind him not wandering about the Verse. Not to mention that reward secret thing about River.
Operative can claikm none of these traits, and in almost every instance has done the opposite. I'm not seeing Mal sympathy toward the Op.

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:50 PM

RALLEM


I don't see any chance of the Operative ever being a crewmate aboard Serenity, but there is potential for his character becoming some sort of a recurring character sort of like Badger and Yosaffbridge. I could see him maybe become a customer of Serenity's in the future, but I don't know how or why he would hire them or they would take the job unless there were some really hard times had by both sides.



http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by rallem:
I don't see any chance of the Operative ever being a crewmate aboard Serenity, but there is potential for his character becoming some sort of a recurring character sort of like Badger and Yosaffbridge. I could see him maybe become a customer of Serenity's in the future, but I don't know how or why he would hire them or they would take the job unless there were some really hard times had by both sides.



Badger's dead.
Operative will be if Mal sees him again.

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Friday, February 13, 2009 1:52 AM

RIPWASH


Is Badger really dead? I wondered about that. Wasn't it said that the Operative was only killing those who harbored the Serenity crew after a job? I don't think Badger would have done that. He was no friend by any means.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Friday, February 13, 2009 4:47 AM

GWEK


While we don't have any special info, we've explored a lot of this in our virtual Season Two over at www.stillflying.net. (Season Two is an attempt to look at what the story of the movie might have been over the course of 22 episodes rather than just 2 hours via 22 episode-length scripts).

We posited that Badger may have broken with Mal before the activities in the movie, so might well still be alive.

The Operative is conflicted and does, based on the movie, appear to help rebuilt the ship. Why? Who knows his motivations, exactly (besides Joss), but he ends the movie where Mal begins the series: in a dark place empty of faith in his system.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Friday, February 13, 2009 6:00 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I notice Mal flinch, and reach for his gun, briefly, at the sound of The Operative coming up behind him. It seems to me that Mal's not use to him being around, and I think the Operative took a passive role in the 'fixing' of Serenity.

He still has some ability to pull some strings, and get things done. Though not " their man ", the Alliance isn't ( in a position ? ) ready to completely throw The Operative under the bus. For the most part, I get the impression that much of the rebuilding of Serenity was done under the direction of The Operative, though he wasn't " on site " much, if at all, until he came to say his goodbye to Mal.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, February 13, 2009 6:50 AM

GWEK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I notice Mal flinch, and reach for his gun, briefly, at the sound of The Operative coming up behind him. It seems to me that Mal's not use to him being around, and I think the Operative took a passive role in the 'fixing' of Serenity.

He still has some ability to pull some strings, and get things done. Though not " their man ", the Alliance isn't ( in a position ? ) ready to completely throw The Operative under the bus. For the most part, I get the impression that much of the rebuilding of Serenity was done under the direction of The Operative, though he wasn't " on site " much, if at all, until he came to say his goodbye to Mal.



Why, it's almost like you read our Season Two finale. :)

I agree with this assessment completely.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Friday, February 13, 2009 3:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


What can I say ? Great minds think a like ?



Sorry if I stated the obvious, but I leave and come back to Serenity and the 'verse. Even if I'm rehashing old stuff, it's just nice to talk about our BDHs.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 4:55 AM

IMNOTHERE


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Oh, I agree with that. But he seemed to consider killing "innocent" alliance-loyal military personel who could live in his better world different from killing innocent rim-dwelling not-so loyal women and children on Haven who apparently couldn't.



I don't think the Op was expressing personal regret at the deaths - it was a stab at Mal. From the Op's point of view, Mal is the hypocrite for not accepting his own sins.

Of course, the real difference is that the Op uses his "I am a monster doing evil for the greater good" rationale to absolve himself of any real responsibility for his actions and kills without thinking twice, whereas Mal is wracked with guilt over all the people he has killed or sent to their deaths.

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:21 AM

BYTEMITE


My impression is that the Operative was genuinely angry that Alliance ships were being attacked by Reavers, and knew Mal was to blame.

It's the way he opens up the fight and his tone, when he tells Mal that "innocents are dying up there." Then Mal brings up Haven and reminds the Operative that innocents died there, too.

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Monday, February 16, 2009 12:24 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Ummm.
I thought Badger was killed in Those Left Behind. Now I gotta go check.

Edit: I skimmed through again, Badger apparently was not killed in TLB, just kinda stranded. My Mal... err bad.

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Monday, February 16, 2009 12:28 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
My impression is that the Operative was genuinely angry that Alliance ships were being attacked by Reavers, and knew Mal was to blame.

It's the way he opens up the fight and his tone, when he tells Mal that "innocents are dying up there." Then Mal brings up Haven and reminds the Operative that innocents died there, too.


Ummm.
I thought Mal replied "you have no idea" or similar. Referring to the fact that reavers were the innocents victimized by Alliance behavior control drugs (Pax) and the reavers were again being victimized by the Alliance, instead of the Alliance scum dying an honorable death at the hands of those they created and abused.

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Monday, February 16, 2009 12:44 AM

BYTEMITE


...Hmm, Yeah, Miranda. I suppose that does fit better than Haven, since the Operative DOESN'T know about that, having not ordered it.

But the general idea is still the same. The Operative thinks his murders are justified, and they're not. And I'd like to think Mal was still pissed enough about Haven that he'd be including that in that jab at the Operative's skewed morality.

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Monday, February 16, 2009 4:12 AM

SCHISM


It's an interesting way to look at the movie.

One assumes that the Operative, doing the Alliance's dirty work, knows about Miranda, the truth about the Reavers, and all the dirty secrets.

Even though he says "I don't care about secrets, only keeping them" (or something to that effect), you still have to remind yourself that, through the whole movie, his only concern is catching a fugitive. That's all it is to him.

So when he says "innocents are dying up here", aside from being rather two-faced, you have to remember that in HIS mind, Serenity helped lead a metric shit-load of Reavers into an Alliance fleet for a slaughter, simply to protect ONE fugitive girl.

He definetely never saw that coming.
He never would have expected Mal to do that for one girl.
Because he thinks this is all about one girl, and NOT the biggest secret ever.
He was taken aback, cos he thought he had Mal all sussed out.

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Monday, February 16, 2009 10:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Don't know why the Operative would know about Miranda, reavers, all the dirty secrets - they are not his job, that doesn't interest him.



Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
...Hmm, Yeah, Miranda. I suppose that does fit better than Haven, since the Operative DOESN'T know about that, having not ordered it.

But the general idea is still the same. The Operative thinks his murders are justified, and they're not. And I'd like to think Mal was still pissed enough about Haven that he'd be including that in that jab at the Operative's skewed morality.


I conjure Mal is pissed about all his friends being killed, including Book on Haven.
But I really think Mal was far more pissed at 30 million people killed, and more continuing from reavers, and the Alliance covering up their killings and Restricting an enitre world - not to mention that the War for Alliance Domination may have been staged as a result of, or as part of the cover up of this action.
The Miranda broadwave was about early 2506. The War started about mid-2506, maybe July/August. Coincidence?

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