Land-locked? by Steve580

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Land-locked?

POSTED BY: STEVE580
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 3, 2004 14:09
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Monday, February 2, 2004 3:58 AM

Not sure if this has been brought up before or not: one thing I always had a problem with on Firefly is Jaynestown, where Serenity is 'land-locked' by the governor. What, exactly, is landlocking? Any guesses? Because it would suck if someone could just throw a ship, and somehow prevent your ship from taking off. If they can do this, why didn't the cops pursuing Serenity ever do this (Ariel, Trash, or The Message)?

Just always wondered about that.
-Steve

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Monday, February 2, 2004 5:24 AM

FLOATER68

I always thought it was like a futuristic Denver boot. You know, like when you get too many parking tickets.

F68

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Monday, February 2, 2004 5:29 AM

SEVENPERCENT

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:
Not sure if this has been brought up before or not: one thing I always had a problem with on Firefly is Jaynestown, where Serenity is 'land-locked' by the governor. What, exactly, is landlocking? Any guesses? Because it would suck if someone could just throw a ship, and somehow prevent your ship from taking off. If they can do this, why didn't the cops pursuing Serenity ever do this (Ariel, Trash, or The Message)?

Just always wondered about that.
-Steve

My take on it is it is either a device or a signal from a device that prevents your engine from working, thereby not letting you take off- It reminded me of the clamps I hear about police using to fine parking violators, which some cities have, some dont, depending (I've heard people in other places complaining about those, the cops here just write parking tickets) - So having had one person (Jayne) fly away with his money (almost), the Magistrate probably invested in technology to put a stop to that- As well as the fact that we dont learn what ways there might be around a land-lock (tech that Serenity might not have) that make them obsolete on other worlds (like with parking clamps, i suppose, if you carry a big honkin' cutting torch or saw)-
And in Ariel and Trash, the cops never really knew who they were pursuing, as far as the Message, you cant land-lock it till it lands, and that would have required the cops to contact someone, which as we all saw, they didnt want to do-

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Monday, February 2, 2004 5:55 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I found the land lock interesting too.

I need to rewatch the episode so I can refresh myself on what the instrument panel reads when Wash sees that they are land locked.

It obviously is something done remotely since the magistrate's son gets the land lock disabled without his father's knowledge.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Monday, February 2, 2004 6:05 AM

CAPNRAHN

Since the writers mention "planetary gravity generators... this came to mind:

Maybe the Land-Lock is built into the landing pad.

Sorta a 'hot-spot' intense gravity generator.With that theory in mind...

I would personally design the LL to generate a small but intense field under the landing pads of any given ship. The intensity would be variable in proportion to the size/mass of the vessel.

I agree, there was something on the Serenity's read-out in the episode that sorta led me in that direction...

Now I gotta watch it again too!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Monday, February 2, 2004 6:05 AM

CAPNRAHN

Bloody gorram double post!

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Monday, February 2, 2004 8:21 AM

HOTPOINT

Quote:
Originally posted by CapnRahn:
Since the writers mention "planetary gravity generators... this came to mind:

Maybe the Land-Lock is built into the landing pad.

Sorta a 'hot-spot' intense gravity generator.With that theory in mind...

If the Firefly 'Verse has true gravity manipulation then you might not even need a device under the landing pad

Why not a Graser Beam?

Gravity directed in a coherent beam at a target to hold it in place or at lower energy output just disrupt its drive?

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

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Monday, February 2, 2004 8:35 AM

RAVENWHYTEWING

My only issue with a gravity beam is that if any human body walks into that, I imagine the physical damage would be extensive

Everyone Dies. Someone's carrying a bullet for you, doesn't even know it. The trick is, to die of old age before he finds you.

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Monday, February 2, 2004 8:42 AM

HOTPOINT

I'll give you that for a "tractor beam" but if you're trying to disrupt a gravity drive then why would you need high output?

You could screw it up royally with a really tiny gee force and just run the power up and down to stop the engine countering the change

In FF there was an effect when entering a strong gravity field. Disruption of the drive by the local gravity well?

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

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Monday, February 2, 2004 8:53 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by CapnRahn:
Since the writers mention "planetary gravity generators... this came to mind:

Maybe the Land-Lock is built into the landing pad.

Sorta a 'hot-spot' intense gravity generator.With that theory in mind...

I would personally design the LL to generate a small but intense field under the landing pads of any given ship. The intensity would be variable in proportion to the size/mass of the vessel.

I agree, there was something on the Serenity's read-out in the episode that sorta led me in that direction...

Now I gotta watch it again too!

That makes quite a bit of sense. Makes more sense than anything I can come up with right now.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Monday, February 2, 2004 12:08 PM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
My take on it is it is either a device or a signal from a device that prevents your engine from working, thereby not letting you take off-

I'm quite sure Mal wouldn't stand to have such a device/feature attached/part of his ship's engine. I assumed from the flashing screen graphic that Wash is looking at that they were some kind of mechanical clamp on the landing gears.

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Monday, February 2, 2004 12:29 PM

WERESPAZ

If I'm remembering correctly, the Mayor (or whatver, funny how I can remember the quote but not his name) said something about having "Port Control", which makes me think that somewhere there's a tower directing all landings and take-offs (sos peoples don't be runnin into eachother and all). So, my thought was that you have to "surrender" control during landing and take off or something like that, sorta like when they were being pulled into the Dortmunder in "Bushwacked". Either that, or maybe your ship just needs "clearance" from the "tower" before taking off, which is something that's so routine that you don't think about it until you don't get it (sorta like a catalyzer, oxygen, or sex).

-The SpAz

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Monday, February 2, 2004 12:49 PM

REDJACK

I think Werespaz got it right.

If you remember, Wash was having trouble getting SERENITY to do anything until the land lock was lifted.

It wasn't that she was trying to take off and being physically restrained but that something in the system was preventing the commands from being accepted.

I think the Land-Lock is some sort of tower control where the visiting ship's systems are slaved to those of the governing body.

No coming and going without permission.

The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.
Audrid Dax

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Monday, February 2, 2004 1:08 PM

CAPNRAHN

But the issue of Mal not wanting someone to have FULL control does still present a thorny poke.

I would be willing to bet, Mal would have Kaylee or Wash bypass the possible towers 'remote ignition lock' (for the lack of a better term).

In the physical-world, the control tower does not really fly the ship remotely ... "Tower, you have control" is just a pilot aknowledgement phrase indicating that the pilot will follow the controllers exact directions. But in Firefly .. we just don't know.

Again, there is something in the readout on Serenity, that made me think there was a lock on the ship, not an engine start-up lock.

Heh, did Wash flip his 3 switches ... my DVDs are being borrowed at the moment, so I cannot check!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Monday, February 2, 2004 6:20 PM

DRAGONFLYDIRECTOR

Here is a screen-cap of the read-out.

The circles led me to believe in a "Landing Pad" mag or grav lock ... but the upper circles seem to be hi-lighting the wing joint... or 'shoulder' of the landing gear... not sure which.

Anyhoo, the cycle repeats with the circles HL'ing the port pad and starboard shoulder...

...then starboard pad and port shoulder and so forth.

I haven't translated the chinese ideograms ... bet that would help! The folks at zoic were pretty great about labeling things accoeding to the 'use'.

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Monday, February 2, 2004 10:23 PM

STEVE580

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:

And in Ariel and Trash, the cops never really knew who they were pursuing, as far as the Message, you cant land-lock it till it lands, and that would have required the cops to contact someone, which as we all saw, they didnt want to do-

Yeah, but with something as important as River, you'd think the gov't would just land-lock all the ships in the city, or all the ones that had arrived recently, or at least, all the Firefly-class ships (they suspected River was on a 'Fly). Again with Trash, they could have prevented all the ships from leaving that little island. Depending on what a land-lock is, it may have been helpful in the message, too, by forcing the ship to land, or something.

I just always hated that concept, where someone could flip a switch, and suddenly Serenity is useless. It has dangerous implications.
-Steve

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 3:19 AM

HANS

Over on the "Where does firely take place" thread there's been a fair bit of discussion about artificial gravity in the firefly universe. While I don't believe in artificial gravity on a planet-wide scale (despite the fact it supports the one-system theory) it would be an interesting explanantion of the land-lock. Someone with control of the planet's central "gravity plant" could locally increase the gravity well around a particular point, making takeoff impossible for a ship parked in that spot. It would explain how you could land-lock a ship that was not parked on any sort of landing pad.

...of course, it doesn't explain why crew on board that ship aren't glued to the floor by the increased gravity. Counteracting effects of their own artificial gravity, maybe? Or maybe the incresed gravity can be focused on very small areas of the ship alone (the points marked on the schematic above?).

Hans

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 3:41 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Thanks for the screen cap DFD. The circles seem to show Wash where the problems are located. One clearly points at one of the landing gear assemblies, the other does seem to be pointing at the wing strut where it attaches to the ship. The landing gear makes sense, but not the wing strut, unless of course it is indicating some sort of power or control relay.

Translating those symbols might give us another clue.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 4:04 AM

CAPNRAHN

Whoops, sorry I used my other ID (For running a FF spin-off Role Game here on FFFn) to post the pic ...

I am not sure it IS pointing to the engine pylon/main body connection.

the upper circles COULD be hi-lighting the 'shoulder' pivot of the landing gear.

As to the grav generator ... I still thing it would be plausable that there is a grid underneath the landing pad and the gravity is 'localized' right under the landing pads.

Thus the circles hi-lighting them.

Maybe the upper circles DO hi-light the shoulder joint of the landing strut - perhapst to indicate a stress tolerance of said strut.

Jus' throwin' ideas out there to play with!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 10:52 AM

THALOS

Something that has not been mentioned that crossed my mind. Perhaps land locking can only take place if you land in a designated landing site. For example, in Jaynestown, they were posing as legitamite buyers and so would have landed in a designated spot. This would allow for the notion brought up in other posts that the "tower controller" has some influence. Meanwhile, in episodes where Serenity is just landing anywhere on planet like The Message there is no structures in place to perform a land lock.

"Whoa, good Bible."

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Tuesday, February 3, 2004 2:09 PM

STEVE580

Quote:
Originally posted by Thalos:
Something that has not been mentioned that crossed my mind. Perhaps land locking can only take place if you land in a designated landing site. For example, in Jaynestown, they were posing as legitamite buyers and so would have landed in a designated spot. This would allow for the notion brought up in other posts that the "tower controller" has some influence. Meanwhile, in episodes where Serenity is just landing anywhere on planet like The Message there is no structures in place to perform a land lock.

Ah, I'd never thought of that. The 'seller' met them just outside the ship; he'd have thought it strange, had they parked their ship anywhere besides the designated landing pad.
-Steve

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