GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Article Names BDM As 'Most Anti-Feminist'

POSTED BY: SWEETALKER
UPDATED: Monday, September 8, 2008 18:19
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3231
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Saturday, September 6, 2008 3:55 PM

SWEETALKER


Hollywood's Five Saddest Attempts At Feminism:


http://www.cracked.com/article_16587_hollywoods-5-saddest-attempts-at-
feminism.html



Serenity is included. This needs to be corrected. If you are a member of Cracked.com, log in and let the author know how misguided this article is.

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Saturday, September 6, 2008 7:08 PM

SIGMANUNKI


From the first sentence you know that this person is one of the pseudo-feminists that are so very prevalent in North America. Why waste the time and energy on such a person? They don't listen.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Saturday, September 6, 2008 7:14 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


crazy lady lost me with "Eowyn is introduced in the second film as some sort of princess"

cause actually she was introduced IN THE BOOK!


get your facts straight crazy lady!



I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

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Saturday, September 6, 2008 11:06 PM

DARKFLY


lol it references that livejournal article which was posted on here a few months ago & in no way was that woman ever a fan of the show let alone the movie & she was 10x worse than this article.

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Sunday, September 7, 2008 12:09 AM

PEULSAR5

We sniff the air, we don't kiss the dirt.


Gee, comparing a female character that had 14 episodes and a two hour movie that never got the chance to develop to a character that had seven seasons, a character from the most celebrated literary trilogy of all time, and the mother of Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker. Seems fair.

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Sunday, September 7, 2008 12:17 AM

WENDYPOPS


Some people shouldn't be allowed on the internet.

--------------------

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Sunday, September 7, 2008 3:10 AM

CITIZEN


You do get that the whole point of cracked.com is to take the piss I take it?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, September 7, 2008 3:48 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
You do get that the whole point of cracked.com is to take the piss I take it?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
]

shhhhhhh!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

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Sunday, September 7, 2008 4:27 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
shhhhhhh!


Right.

Ok.

The author of this article is obviously a feminazi with galloping halitosis. May there be a plague on half their houses, involving some sort of creeping vine and dry rot and the disappearance of potted plants that were put down just half an hour early, about six o'clock.

May their Roast Beef by dry and burnt, and their potatoes by diseased and rotten.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, September 7, 2008 4:38 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


May fleas infest her tea cozy and her bangers and mash be soggy!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

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Sunday, September 7, 2008 4:53 AM

EVILDINOSAUR


Yea...I can only guess that instead of watching these movies, the writer of this article had had someone give them a 2 minute synopsis, some of the flaws in the information they offer as proof of their point is ridiculous.

Then the part where they quote from crazy feminist lady's little firefly rant just destroys any credibility the article may have had. That's bias if I've ever seen it.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Sunday, September 7, 2008 6:06 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Y'all also might notice that in her critique of Eowyn, she ripped off Wash's Dino line:" Mine is an evil laugh...", which, OK, probably wasn't original with Wash, but I betcha she didn't even realize he had used.

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Sunday, September 7, 2008 12:30 PM

REGINAROADIE


Not tot tick you guys off, but I do feel that she does have a point.

I think the point that she's trying to make is that for a character that everyone makes a big deal of and is fighting to capture or protect her, that the character herself is so passive and has no say in her own fate and decisions that she becomes more of an ideal than an actual fleshed out character. When she guns down the men in Niska's skyplex or goes one on one with Jubal Early or fights the Reavers, it's a powerful moment because we ACTUALLY SEE HER DO THINGS OF HER OWN VOLITION.

So while I don't think it's "anti-feminist" I believe that it's just weak storytelling and character development.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Sunday, September 7, 2008 3:56 PM

HUGHFF


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Y'all also might notice that in her critique of Eowyn, she ripped off Wash's Dino line:" Mine is an evil laugh...", which, OK, probably wasn't original with Wash, but I betcha she didn't even realize he had used.



Actually, I think that the writer new damn well who she (he) was quoting. I think that this article is crafted with a fair degree of affection for the sources. From the tone, I think the writer feels a little let down by this aspect of the works in question but not so much as to rant vitriolic.

And I agree with her. I don't think someone is a hero because he shoots villains, or carves them up with an axe. I don't believe that a character is a feminist icon because she can kick a man's butt. Buffy is a feminist icon because she stands strong in a genre where women are usually wussy but her real strength as a feminist comes when she recruits potential slayers. It's proactive and affirming.

River is just another action chick and I don't admire her for that. I find her the weakest character in the canon from a feminist PoV; she's damaged goods and a victim of the circumstances that swirl around her.

Now Zoe and Inara, they both have control of their lives (in as much as anyone does.) Sure, the people around them sometimes don't make life easy for them (can you say, "MAL?") but they make decisions independently and live life on their terms. Unfortunately, neither is as fully realised in the bdm as they are in the series, becuae the bdm is resolving River's story.

www.cpfc.org - my life

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Monday, September 8, 2008 2:46 AM

SHINYSAHARA


To second hughff, I REALLY appreciate Zoe. She's strong, capable and still feminine.
I'm REALLY not familiar with any Joss Whedon canon - I know what he's done, but I haven't seen anything by Firefly/Serenity. So all that I know of him is based on these characters. Pretty good reference.

I don't think River being written the way she was is necessarily poor feminist story-telling. I think it's person-oriented than that, you know, not statement-on-society-oriented.




"Your mouth is talking. You might want to look into that."

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Monday, September 8, 2008 4:29 AM

PHYRELIGHT


Quote:

Originally posted by reginaroadie:
Not tot tick you guys off, but I do feel that she does have a point.

I think the point that she's trying to make is that for a character that everyone makes a big deal of and is fighting to capture or protect her, that the character herself is so passive and has no say in her own fate and decisions that she becomes more of an ideal than an actual fleshed out character. When she guns down the men in Niska's skyplex or goes one on one with Jubal Early or fights the Reavers, it's a powerful moment because we ACTUALLY SEE HER DO THINGS OF HER OWN VOLITION.

So while I don't think it's "anti-feminist" I believe that it's just weak storytelling and character development.

Is it weak storytelling and character development, or is it just a misfortune that we have yet to really see who River has really turned into post-Miranda?

The story of this 'verse has yet to end. We've only seen a few chapters of it. River, Mal, and the others are not done yet! Besides the comic books, there is no current venue to continue telling the story. Despite that, I think Joss still wants to tell the really juicy-good parts in more of a 3-D fashion.




Experience the Horribleness!

http://www.drhorrible.com

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Monday, September 8, 2008 7:14 AM

RUGBUG


IMO, it's pretty hard to be critical of a character that had 14 episodes (11 aired) and a movie to develop. Where would Buffy have been with just 14 episodes and a movie? Just back from L.A., cruelly using Xander to make Angel jealous, completely disregarding Willow, putting all her closest friends in serious danger, basically getting over being totally self-destructive. Yep, she's the feminist icon we all know and love. Not.

If River had been fully fleshed out there would be no story to tell. There has to be a journey for each character. We only saw a very small portion of River's journey.

I personally appreciate the different types of feminist role models presented by Joss. Every woman on Serenity has something to offer, is (or will be) strong in their own right. They aren't carbon copies of some ideal decided upon by some feminist in the sky. They are strong...but also flawed. They are real people.


***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Monday, September 8, 2008 8:00 AM

PHYRELIGHT


THANK YOU!!!

Also, there was that Buffy movie, remember? Thank goodness Joss left that project early on and had a chance to remake her into what she should have been in the series.




Experience the Horribleness:


Or, learn more at the lair:
http://www.drhorrible.com/images/banners/banner.gif' style='max-width:600px; width: expression(this.width > 600 ? 600: true);'>
http://www.drhorrible.com>

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Monday, September 8, 2008 2:08 PM

TRAVELER


I should never read those articles. They just make me see red. I have seen most of the films mentioned in the article and the critic wrote the article with blinders on. If you want to make a case all you have to do is point out the portions that support it and make them all so important while ignoring or belittling the facts that don't.

The first printing of the "Lord of the Rings" was in 1965. I don't think Tolkien was thinking of feminism when he wrote it. That he had strong female characters in this grand piece of work shows forward thinking. So the film stayed true to Tolkien and how can you argue with that.

Now what is this all about River Tam. She was about fourteen or fifteen was she was tormented severly by a psychotics. I believe there was enough shown to convince anybody how horrific her treatment was. So what is she supposed to behave like? She shows a great deal of inner strength that outweighs any of her powers. That she is able to pull herself together and act rationally is proof of her courage. At the end of the film she shows herself rational, capable, and compassionate. When Mal turns to her and says she already knows what he is going to say, River, asks Mal to speak anyway. She understood that Mal needed to talk and she was willing to listen even though she already knew what was in his mind. This shows compassion. This is not the first time River and Mal have had shared. In the "Objects in Space" River and Mal shared some humour at Simon's expense as River returns to Serenity after Mal helps River remove Jubal Early. For the plan to get rid of Jubal is River's and she sets up Jubal so well.

I'm sorry for my rant, but I see the females in this series as positive. None of the characters in the series were perfect. Joss writes about people, not superheros. People have flaws. This includes the men. If you use the same technique, you can point out flaws in the male characters. If I say Jayne I think I make my point. So some people have to learn to take the blinders off. But I suspect this is written with an agenda. So blinders are not the problem.


http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Monday, September 8, 2008 2:44 PM

PHYRELIGHT


Um... if you go back to that page and look at the subtitle of the website in the upper-left hand corner, you'll understand what kind of site it is.




Experience the Horribleness:


Or, learn more at the lair:

http://www.drhorrible.com

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Monday, September 8, 2008 3:41 PM

TRAVELER


Ya. Some sites are ment to cause reactions. You just have to respect freedom of speech and hope people are wise enough to know who is Cracked and who is legit.


http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Monday, September 8, 2008 6:19 PM

OPTIMUS1998


i used to read cracked..
it was a MAD Magazine clone
looks like it was discontinued, and now exists only as a website.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracked

Make Cartoons, Not War
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Well played, Clerks...
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