GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Joss' New Series

POSTED BY: FOLLOWMAL
UPDATED: Monday, November 5, 2007 21:51
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 21744
PAGE 3 of 3

Saturday, November 3, 2007 11:22 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Good to see the master will be flexing his writer/produce/director muscles once again for TV. Nothing wrong with that.

The premise has great scope too. Given the characterization sounds like Joss is setting up a show that can go non-linear.

My only concern is the element of 'Everyones fantasy'.


www.cirqus.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 3, 2007 12:03 PM

EMMAZULE



Quote:

Originally posted by Raycheetah:
I coulda sworn Joss had vowed never to go back to those F*X asshats?



You mean the asshats who USED to work at Fox?

Read the Ausiello Report's note on the show.

Joss openly said that it's COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE from the ones that canned Firefly that are working there now - the network is handled by different people than it was five years ago. The fact that the previous staff made him do a second pilot while giving him only a weekend to write it, while this staff is giving him seven episodes without seeing a script - just seeing the pitch and the fact that Joss is on it - speaks VOLUMES about the changes. I would in fact not be surprised at all if the employees responsible for canning Firefly - which turned out to be a cult cash cow and got huge ratings for ANOTHER network in a different lineup - got quietly, invisibly sacked for incompetence at losing a potential Buffy-esque goldmine and making a valuable, fanbase-beloved creator leave the network entirely.

You all also seem to think that Fox won't relentlessly advertise things it actually WANTS to succeed - and thus far, it sounds like the kind of production deal that a bunch of total Whedon fanboys would make. Sometimes shows are cancelled or renewed based on ratings - and sometimes they aren't. This show already clearly has better support than Firefly did.

My only concern is if it starts doing real well, so well that they stupidly try to move it around and then lose their audience, which is sort of what happened with Tru Calling, as far as I can tell.

But keep in mind one very, very important thing that Tim Minear (and Tim Kring of Heroes, for that matter) learned quite quickly:

If you know exactly how many episodes you WILL have, you can work around it. You can tell a complete arc, but with an open ending that allows continuation, having your cake and sure, being hungry afterwards but you're not starving are you? People lament what happened to Wonderfalls, but let's not forget that part of the show's brilliance cames exactly from Minear knowing he only had so many episodes guaranteed, and WORKING with that. As a writer myself, I guarantee I would in his shoes be jumping for JOY at getting more than one episode right off the bat, and knowing exactly how many I was getting to start with. So...

EVERYONE PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT FOX AS IF THE NETWORK NEVER CHANGES ITS EMPLOYMENT ROSTER, AND AS IF KNOWING THE EXACT NUMBER OF EPISODES HE GETS TO START WITH IS SOME SORT OF BAD THING. THANK YOU.


Quote:


Did his commitment for seven episodes, half the number filmed of Firefly, include a commitment to air them in the right ruttin' order? No time slot shell-game? No pre-emptions? Well, again, seven eps is a smaller target to hit with the usual F*X shenanigans... Mebbe.



That's a valid complaint... but how do you know they WILL do that? They don't always. I'm not saying they never do - they're infamous for it, for a reason - but they don't ALWAYS do it. Look at The Simpsons for instance. That thing's always been treated right. Or the X-Files? It's only time-slot switch turned out to be a good thing!

Quote:


Mebbe that's why he only got seven. Mebbe shoulda only got 2.



I love ya man, but you're an idiot, because you're completely ignoring the fact that they are actually giving him a full mini-season WITHOUT SEEING AN ACTUAL SCRIPT YET.

That is WAY more than they ever did for Firefly. It is, as noted by someone else and intensely ignored anyway by everyone in the gorram thread, COMPLETELY UNPRECEDENTED IN ALL OF TV HISTORY! This is not only more than they did for Firefly, it's more than anyone's EVER done in TV for any creator.

And from Joss' standpoint, even if the series tanks, he'll have gotten a full mini-season to tell a complete arc. Instead of getting really, really excited about this cool new idea and getting it killed when they don't like his pilot (and openings of that nature are very hard to pull off well, to boot).

Keep in mind, he's learned from the past. You all think he's niave to go back. You all are wrong. He knows enough not to be surprised if it does get cancelled, but he also knows he's getting to tell a full arc if he wishes.

I strongly suspect those seven episodes will be an awful lot like the 13 episodes of Wonderfalls - self-contained as a whole, but wonderfully open-ended.

I do hope they air them in order though. THAT is a valid concern.

Quote:


More importantly, since Joss has returned to TV(!), did this include a commit from F*X to resurrect the show we REALLY want to see? The one F*X holds the rights to, and, since they're makin' nice with Joss, again, really oughtta be doin' everything in their power to restore?



How do you know they aren't?

We know they were beta-testing an MMO based on it, and if they're as smart as Universal they'll have an ear to the ground in fandom and be able to see that a return to TV is what we want most for the series.

I would not be surprised either if they struck a deal with SciFi Channel, similar to their previous deals with WB and UPN with Buffy, where they own the DVD and other rights but the channel gets airing privileges. We know it does well on SciFi Channel even in repeats, after all! And cable has much lower expectations for ratings. I would personally LOVE to see that happen, as SFC tends to air their shows in order from what I could tell, and I still get the channel.

Quote:


Sure, the new show will garner fans; I am more than a little annoyed that it is taken for granted that the pre-existing Buffy fanbase (yeah, I know, Eliza Dushku) is going to back this. What about the Browncoats? I guess we don't count? Or, did they kinda mebbe figger that we wouldn't be standin' at the back door, cunnin' hats in our hands, wonderin' about OUR show, OUR BDHs?



Yes, because this thread proves the Browncoats are expecting Fox to do anything but ruin their lives, and that the Flans of the world are really, really eager to see this show and not at all reluctant to even get involved with it.

You want to know why everyone's mentioning Buffy instead of Firefly?

BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE KNOW BUFFY EVEN EXISTS.

Is it his best series? Well, no. Firefly was LOADS better, I love it way more.

But Buffy was way, way more popular.

And let's not forget the folks like myself, who tried Firefly in the first place in part because it was "from the guy that made Buffy! I like Buffy... it had good dialogue and a great sense of humor about itself".

The Buffy fans are a bigger base. Deal with it already, jeez.

Quote:


In fact, I am really annoyed that a ready-made fanbase is bein' taken for granted, at all. F*X is makin' this, only because it's Joss, and, because they know that all of his fans are gonna just fall all over themselves *SQUEEE!* about this. 'Scuse me, aren't we the same fans F*X has repeatedly robbed of not only Joss' shows, but, many, many others?



Shows?

Try "show". They have only cancelled one of Joss' shows. They weren't responsible for Buffy's cancellation (that would be Sarah Michelle Gellar not wanting to do more than seven seasons) or Angel's (that would be the WB).

And last I checked, Joss hasn't done more than those before now.

Once again, you're blowing things out of proportion.

And you know what?

I'm gonna watch it now. I probably would have watched it anyway but now I will watch EVERY GORRAM EPISODE they air and buy it when it comes out on DVD to boot. Why?

Because I need to counteract picklepusses like you that will apparently WANT this show to die, just because they're too busy whining about Firefly's tragic demise to even consider giving another Joss Fox show a chance.

To reiterate what another said earlier: it seems like someone would rather Joss be unemployed!

Quote:


A smell a whole lotta "Let's get ourselves an interim fan draw to soften the blow of the impending writers' strike" comin' offa this plan.



Well yes. But at the same time, they announced Heroes a year in advance, and that both took off marvelously, and had nothing to do with a writers' strike.

Quote:


Sorry, I cannot get excited about this, another series which will either:

A. Tank and drown after seven eps, to become another cult fave which makes F*X money hand over fist on DVD sales, or,

B. Do so very well that F*X actually supports it (for a while), though they scarcely have the right to share in any of Joss' success, and, a busy Joss' priorities have to shift away from older, already fading projects.

Like Firefly.



You know, I'm going to commit what's apparently a cardinal sin here and say the following:

Firefly doesn't need it. Firefly HAD a conclusion. It's a movie, called "Serenity". And if he WANTED to give up on it - which I doubt he does - I would not argue. It will have been tragically short, but have had a fine finish and a wonderful fanbase (well, normally they are...).

Also, again as a writer - why do you assume that starting a new show means another old show gets completely ignored? For folks like Joss that are bubbling over with ideas ALWAYS, this isn't really as big an issue as you're making it out to be. And you also have no basis on which to complain, because Firefly itself was done at the same time as one season of Buffy AND Angel!

Quote:


Bitter? You bet. Disillusioned with F*X? Check. Happy for Joss? Well... Let's see how this pans out, before I start smilin' about this new show. Not a huge Buffyverse fan, myself (that'd be the missus), the premise doesn't guarantee that I'll be interested in this, either. And, interest in a show, not who makes it, is why I watch TV.



More than bitter. You're outright acidic! You could cook raw fish at room temperature in the kind of talk you just gave. All because WAAAAAh my favorite got canceled five years ago, by a completely different staff than is running that network now. It's actually kind of ridiculous, you know, how much you're stretching or ignoring the facts here just to spit vitriol at people who weren't even the same ones that DID cancel Firefly.

Am I bitter that it got canceled too? Well, yes. But that doesn't mean I'm going to lop off these new folks' heads so long as Joss is happy and gets a guaranteed number of episodes of his new show. You realize he DOES make a living from doing that, right? And that he has a child to support? Just checking.

~Emma

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 3, 2007 12:09 PM

EMMAZULE


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownBug:

it sounds dreadful, simply dreadful

and im a little tired of Joss "empowering" women, its becoming a one trick pony.



Strong female characters is BAD now?

Bzuh? Since when?? And you haven't seen the damn thing yet.

Plenty of writers reuse themes, without the new stuff being a complete copy of their old stuff. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just being silly.

And the River comparisons! Oh lord.

Are there thematic simularities? Bet yer bottom dollar there are. Is it the same?

Uh, no. This is more like if the Academy had actually FINISHED the project, and it only went wrong AFTER. It's a different take on the concept. And she's apparently not a telepath, either.

So, let's stop crying copycat, too, OK?

~Emma

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 3, 2007 12:28 PM

WYTCHCROFT


Emma - u RULE!:)

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 3, 2007 12:52 PM

WEREDOOMED


Before I get all excited about F*X committing to 7 eps...I still remember a little show called "Drive" that had 6 eps made and cancelled after 4.




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 3, 2007 1:55 PM

RAYCHEETAH


Quote:

Originally posted by EmmaZule:

Quote:

Originally posted by Raycheetah:
I coulda sworn Joss had vowed never to go back to those F*X asshats?



You mean the asshats who USED to work at Fox?

Read the Ausiello Report's note on the show.

Joss openly said that it's COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE from the ones that canned Firefly that are working there now - the network is handled by different people than it was five years ago. The fact that the previous staff made him do a second pilot while giving him only a weekend to write it, while this staff is giving him seven episodes without seeing a script - just seeing the pitch and the fact that Joss is on it - speaks VOLUMES about the changes. I would in fact not be surprised at all if the employees responsible for canning Firefly - which turned out to be a cult cash cow and got huge ratings for ANOTHER network in a different lineup - got quietly, invisibly sacked for incompetence at losing a potential Buffy-esque goldmine and making a valuable, fanbase-beloved creator leave the network entirely.

You all also seem to think that Fox won't relentlessly advertise things it actually WANTS to succeed - and thus far, it sounds like the kind of production deal that a bunch of total Whedon fanboys would make. Sometimes shows are cancelled or renewed based on ratings - and sometimes they aren't. This show already clearly has better support than Firefly did.

My only concern is if it starts doing real well, so well that they stupidly try to move it around and then lose their audience, which is sort of what happened with Tru Calling, as far as I can tell.

But keep in mind one very, very important thing that Tim Minear (and Tim Kring of Heroes, for that matter) learned quite quickly:

If you know exactly how many episodes you WILL have, you can work around it. You can tell a complete arc, but with an open ending that allows continuation, having your cake and sure, being hungry afterwards but you're not starving are you? People lament what happened to Wonderfalls, but let's not forget that part of the show's brilliance cames exactly from Minear knowing he only had so many episodes guaranteed, and WORKING with that. As a writer myself, I guarantee I would in his shoes be jumping for JOY at getting more than one episode right off the bat, and knowing exactly how many I was getting to start with. So...

EVERYONE PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT FOX AS IF THE NETWORK NEVER CHANGES ITS EMPLOYMENT ROSTER, AND AS IF KNOWING THE EXACT NUMBER OF EPISODES HE GETS TO START WITH IS SOME SORT OF BAD THING. THANK YOU.


Quote:


Did his commitment for seven episodes, half the number filmed of Firefly, include a commitment to air them in the right ruttin' order? No time slot shell-game? No pre-emptions? Well, again, seven eps is a smaller target to hit with the usual F*X shenanigans... Mebbe.



That's a valid complaint... but how do you know they WILL do that? They don't always. I'm not saying they never do - they're infamous for it, for a reason - but they don't ALWAYS do it. Look at The Simpsons for instance. That thing's always been treated right. Or the X-Files? It's only time-slot switch turned out to be a good thing!

Quote:


Mebbe that's why he only got seven. Mebbe shoulda only got 2.



I love ya man, but you're an idiot, because you're completely ignoring the fact that they are actually giving him a full mini-season WITHOUT SEEING AN ACTUAL SCRIPT YET.

That is WAY more than they ever did for Firefly. It is, as noted by someone else and intensely ignored anyway by everyone in the gorram thread, COMPLETELY UNPRECEDENTED IN ALL OF TV HISTORY! This is not only more than they did for Firefly, it's more than anyone's EVER done in TV for any creator.

And from Joss' standpoint, even if the series tanks, he'll have gotten a full mini-season to tell a complete arc. Instead of getting really, really excited about this cool new idea and getting it killed when they don't like his pilot (and openings of that nature are very hard to pull off well, to boot).

Keep in mind, he's learned from the past. You all think he's niave to go back. You all are wrong. He knows enough not to be surprised if it does get cancelled, but he also knows he's getting to tell a full arc if he wishes.

I strongly suspect those seven episodes will be an awful lot like the 13 episodes of Wonderfalls - self-contained as a whole, but wonderfully open-ended.

I do hope they air them in order though. THAT is a valid concern.

Quote:


More importantly, since Joss has returned to TV(!), did this include a commit from F*X to resurrect the show we REALLY want to see? The one F*X holds the rights to, and, since they're makin' nice with Joss, again, really oughtta be doin' everything in their power to restore?



How do you know they aren't?

We know they were beta-testing an MMO based on it, and if they're as smart as Universal they'll have an ear to the ground in fandom and be able to see that a return to TV is what we want most for the series.

I would not be surprised either if they struck a deal with SciFi Channel, similar to their previous deals with WB and UPN with Buffy, where they own the DVD and other rights but the channel gets airing privileges. We know it does well on SciFi Channel even in repeats, after all! And cable has much lower expectations for ratings. I would personally LOVE to see that happen, as SFC tends to air their shows in order from what I could tell, and I still get the channel.

Quote:


Sure, the new show will garner fans; I am more than a little annoyed that it is taken for granted that the pre-existing Buffy fanbase (yeah, I know, Eliza Dushku) is going to back this. What about the Browncoats? I guess we don't count? Or, did they kinda mebbe figger that we wouldn't be standin' at the back door, cunnin' hats in our hands, wonderin' about OUR show, OUR BDHs?



Yes, because this thread proves the Browncoats are expecting Fox to do anything but ruin their lives, and that the Flans of the world are really, really eager to see this show and not at all reluctant to even get involved with it.

You want to know why everyone's mentioning Buffy instead of Firefly?

BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE KNOW BUFFY EVEN EXISTS.

Is it his best series? Well, no. Firefly was LOADS better, I love it way more.

But Buffy was way, way more popular.

And let's not forget the folks like myself, who tried Firefly in the first place in part because it was "from the guy that made Buffy! I like Buffy... it had good dialogue and a great sense of humor about itself".

The Buffy fans are a bigger base. Deal with it already, jeez.

Quote:


In fact, I am really annoyed that a ready-made fanbase is bein' taken for granted, at all. F*X is makin' this, only because it's Joss, and, because they know that all of his fans are gonna just fall all over themselves *SQUEEE!* about this. 'Scuse me, aren't we the same fans F*X has repeatedly robbed of not only Joss' shows, but, many, many others?



Shows?

Try "show". They have only cancelled one of Joss' shows. They weren't responsible for Buffy's cancellation (that would be Sarah Michelle Gellar not wanting to do more than seven seasons) or Angel's (that would be the WB).

And last I checked, Joss hasn't done more than those before now.

Once again, you're blowing things out of proportion.

And you know what?

I'm gonna watch it now. I probably would have watched it anyway but now I will watch EVERY GORRAM EPISODE they air and buy it when it comes out on DVD to boot. Why?

Because I need to counteract picklepusses like you that will apparently WANT this show to die, just because they're too busy whining about Firefly's tragic demise to even consider giving another Joss Fox show a chance.

To reiterate what another said earlier: it seems like someone would rather Joss be unemployed!

Quote:


A smell a whole lotta "Let's get ourselves an interim fan draw to soften the blow of the impending writers' strike" comin' offa this plan.



Well yes. But at the same time, they announced Heroes a year in advance, and that both took off marvelously, and had nothing to do with a writers' strike.

Quote:


Sorry, I cannot get excited about this, another series which will either:

A. Tank and drown after seven eps, to become another cult fave which makes F*X money hand over fist on DVD sales, or,

B. Do so very well that F*X actually supports it (for a while), though they scarcely have the right to share in any of Joss' success, and, a busy Joss' priorities have to shift away from older, already fading projects.

Like Firefly.



You know, I'm going to commit what's apparently a cardinal sin here and say the following:

Firefly doesn't need it. Firefly HAD a conclusion. It's a movie, called "Serenity". And if he WANTED to give up on it - which I doubt he does - I would not argue. It will have been tragically short, but have had a fine finish and a wonderful fanbase (well, normally they are...).

Also, again as a writer - why do you assume that starting a new show means another old show gets completely ignored? For folks like Joss that are bubbling over with ideas ALWAYS, this isn't really as big an issue as you're making it out to be. And you also have no basis on which to complain, because Firefly itself was done at the same time as one season of Buffy AND Angel!

Quote:


Bitter? You bet. Disillusioned with F*X? Check. Happy for Joss? Well... Let's see how this pans out, before I start smilin' about this new show. Not a huge Buffyverse fan, myself (that'd be the missus), the premise doesn't guarantee that I'll be interested in this, either. And, interest in a show, not who makes it, is why I watch TV.



More than bitter. You're outright acidic! You could cook raw fish at room temperature in the kind of talk you just gave. All because WAAAAAh my favorite got canceled five years ago, by a completely different staff than is running that network now. It's actually kind of ridiculous, you know, how much you're stretching or ignoring the facts here just to spit vitriol at people who weren't even the same ones that DID cancel Firefly.

Am I bitter that it got canceled too? Well, yes. But that doesn't mean I'm going to lop off these new folks' heads so long as Joss is happy and gets a guaranteed number of episodes of his new show. You realize he DOES make a living from doing that, right? And that he has a child to support? Just checking.

~Emma


Wow.

Y'know, after I last posted, I backed offa this thread, 'cause I realized some folks might see me as a downer... Something I've seen in others on another board (which shall remain nameless), and, which I never wish to become. I don't want to dampen the enthusiam others might have, even if I don't necessarily share that enthusiasm.

Turned out to be a gorram lightnin' rod, my post.

I think I had every right to state my opinions, and, to express my perhaps "acidly" cynical attitude toward F*X. I apologize for obviously getting under your skin, Emma. My opinions were not personal attacks on you, or, on anyone else. Perhaps I did belabor the long-standing and acrimonious stance adopted by the fans of MANY shows (not merely Joss' FF) which, for one reason or another, did not succeed on F*X.

Anyone here remember a show called Babylon 5? That was my first active fandom, back in the early '90s (ST didn't really count). I expect the "asshats" who screwed over Firefly weren't even interns at that company yet. However, the same mishandling and ultimate cancellation of a great genre show (picked up by TNT, after F*X ditched it), is the origin of my deeply-ingrained distrust of that network.

I think that, had Dollhouse been picked up by any other network, the level of unvarnished enthusiasm would be much higher. Please, Emma, don't mistake the distrust many of us have for F*X as not wanting Joss, or, his show, to succeed, nor, as considering Joss to be an "idiot," which is a terrible pejorative to use, especially toward someone whom you don't know.

I respect Joss for what he has done, for Firefly and Serenity, on a personal level; for the Buffyverse, on behalf of those who love it (such as my wife) as much as I love FF/S; and for what he has done as a creative force, in many fields, not to mention his humanitarian efforts.

At the same time, Dollhouse doesn't sound like my kinda thing. I'll give it a chance, but, I think it is fair to say that, as with Buffy, I may see it, and, be able to take it or leave it. More troubling with it being on F*X, is the fact that, if it turns out to be something we end up loving as passionately as whichever of his other productions we do, it is still in the hands of a studio which has mishandled Joss' and other series.

I apologize for my ignorance about the circumstances of the ends of Buffy and Angel. Thank you for correcting my misperceptions.

And, it has been observed in the flandom that "From the Creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer" was part of what turned a lot of now-Browncoats away from seeing Serenity in the theaters, in the first place. Whether they didn't like Buffy, or, thought it was okay, it was not an association that motivated them to see Serenity. While there is a lot of overlap between the fandoms, they are not the same. Some folks like apples, some, oranges. Some like a nice, mixed fruit salad.

Me, I cut my fruit open with a knife, before I decide.

And, I acknowledge your point, that Joss has won a commitment to 7 eps, and, that he can, therefore, plan his arc to have an open-ended completion. In effect, he has a mini-series. It still runs counter to my instincts to credit the 21st Century monolith with the good sense to handle this one right. Instincts aside, reason might dictate that the execs in charge this time would know better than to mess with the opportunity they've handed Joss.

Time will tell.

At any rate, I am very disappointed that this thread has turned out to be so full of unnecessary animosity and naked hostility between /fans/; we should, all of us, be above such rancor.

As for my being a "picklepuss," well, I affirm that those who know me are far better entitled to call me names than you are, Emma. As well, please, don't presume to attribute motives me. Of COURSE I want this show to succeed; it is a common-sense observation that Joss' success contributes toward the possibility of more of the 'Verse, in some form.

On the other hand, if you will grant me the favor of not judging me solely by my contributions to this, one thread, you might come to know me better, if we have occasion to cross paths, again, on some other thread or forum.

Make it a shiny day!


-Raycheetah =^[.]^=
The enjoyment of any good thing is only enhanced by sharing it with others.



http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=30176

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 3, 2007 2:15 PM

JWHEDONADDICT


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
jeez I get the feeling that some of you would rather see Joss unemployed forever rather than gamble on Fox...
and let's face it: Fox are the only ones signing our people, and gambling their money.



Thank you Embers for being the voice of reason!



***********************************************

"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse

"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass

for Joss

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 3, 2007 2:55 PM

JWHEDONADDICT


Quote:


More importantly, since Joss has returned to TV(!), did this include a commit from F*X to resurrect the show we REALLY want to see?



More importantly, the show I REALLY want to see is anything Joss creates.


Quote:


Sure, the new show will garner fans; I am more than a little annoyed that it is taken for granted that the pre-existing Buffy fanbase (yeah, I know, Eliza Dushku) is going to back this. What about the Browncoats? I guess we don't count? Or, did they kinda mebbe figger that we wouldn't be standin' at the back door, cunnin' hats in our hands, wonderin' about OUR show, OUR BDHs?



'annoyed that it's taken for granted that pre-existing Buffy fanbase is going to back this?' Of course we are!!! It's pretty obvious how little you actually know about us 'pre-existing Buffy fans'...we support our people just as much as Browncoats do. In fact, we've been doing it longer than you, so PLEASE get over yourself.


Quote:

And let's not forget the folks like myself, who tried Firefly in the first place in part because it was "from the guy that made Buffy! I like Buffy... it had good dialogue and a great sense of humor about itself".


My sentiments exactly.

***********************************************

"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse

"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass

for Joss

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 3, 2007 3:48 PM

RAYCHEETAH


Quote:

Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
Quote:


More importantly, since Joss has returned to TV(!), did this include a commit from F*X to resurrect the show we REALLY want to see?



More importantly, the show I REALLY want to see is anything Joss creates.


Quote:


Sure, the new show will garner fans; I am more than a little annoyed that it is taken for granted that the pre-existing Buffy fanbase (yeah, I know, Eliza Dushku) is going to back this. What about the Browncoats? I guess we don't count? Or, did they kinda mebbe figger that we wouldn't be standin' at the back door, cunnin' hats in our hands, wonderin' about OUR show, OUR BDHs?



'annoyed that it's taken for granted that pre-existing Buffy fanbase is going to back this?' Of course we are!!! It's pretty obvious how little you actually know about us 'pre-existing Buffy fans'...we support our people just as much as Browncoats do. In fact, we've been doing it longer than you, so PLEASE get over yourself.


Quote:

And let's not forget the folks like myself, who tried Firefly in the first place in part because it was "from the guy that made Buffy! I like Buffy... it had good dialogue and a great sense of humor about itself".


My sentiments exactly.

***********************************************

"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse

"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass


for Joss


Again, my apologies for not having apologized effectively enough in my last post.

All my comments were in reference to F*X. I meant no slight to the members of ANY fanbase; I merely found the idea troubling that F*X might take the Buffy fans for granted as a viewer base, as if they might not remember the (now revealed as incorrectly interpreted by me) cancellation of their show (not) by F*X.

I have learned that the basis of my statements was flawed, and, I acknowledge that the Buffy fandom doesn't necessarily share the same cause for distrust (as a discrete fan group) of F*X as the FF flans. I was, perhaps, guilty, in my vent against F*X, of irrationally attributing to that network an exploitative attitude toward the Buffy fans whom I (again, erroneously) believed had been wronged, as the FF flans were.

As for the Browncoats, I cannot escape the bitter feeling that F*X holds our younger, and, less-established flandom in less (or, no) regard, since they have not taken us seriously enough to do more than rake in the cashy money from all the DVD sales of a show they decided wasn't good enough to continue broadcasting. If we were of any significance to F*X, I would like to think that they might act upon Joss' stated desire to do more with FF.

Yes, I understand that FF was expensive to make, though, there are far more guaranteed viewers, now. Yes, our BD Cast is scattered and working elsewhere... The list of obstacles goes on and on. I acknowledge, too, that I am not omniscient, and, can only speculate on what might be going on behind closed doors at F*X. I do, however, sincerely doubt it has anything to do with our BDHs. That's much likelier to happen at Universal.

I dun think it's really necessary to apologize for, or, to explain my statements, any further.

At any rate... mebbe I'll just bow outta this thread.

It's a real shame how folks take things so personally, that they have to get up-in-arms about things others say. Me, I dun take it personally; I'm not that thin-skinned. But, I really don't have anything more to say, 'cept, again, I'm sorry to have riled anyone.

Y'all be nice to each other.

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=
The enjoyment of any good thing is only enhanced by sharing it with others.



http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=30176

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 3, 2007 5:15 PM

SAMEERTIA


*reads*

*re-reads*

*goes and reads all articles ideas, etc*

*Re-opens file on desktop entitled "ChinaDoll"*
MFTHRMFFGLKJSDFODJEEEEEEEEEEE

JOSS! How the ruttin' hell does he DO That?
First- Serenity- nearly a carbon copy of my half-finished sci-fi novel. Now this? A Dollhouse?

*sighs*
The problem is, no matter where I was taking the idea of a group of women brainwashed into being 'shells', Joss and Eliza's idea sounds three-gazillion times sharper and more... well.. strange...than anything I could have come up with. So I cannot be wounded- I actually feel TRIUMPHANT! YAYA!!!!!!!!! A NEW JOSS Show! With Eliza!

GO JoSS!


*relables file, and makes note to add massive erotica segments and strange gothic flashback twists so that people don't think I stole it.*




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 3, 2007 6:55 PM

LEXAN


Hmmm. It seems as though Joss has stayed true to creating shows that have titles which sound like they could be for kids, though, of course, aren't. Good for him.

It's great that Joss is doing a new series- that's a given. I probably would have preferred a new series to include an entirely new cast of people... To be entirely honest, Eliza Dushku has never been my favourite Whedon actress. There are a lot of other actresses Joss has worked with I would prefer him to be doing a new series with. Not to say that I don't like Eliza, I watched the first few episodes of 'Tru Calling' just because she was in it but couldn't stand to watch anymore. I've been told it got better though.

The actual premise of the series does sound quite interesting. I won't lie; it doesn't particularly excite me. Then again, neither did Firefly when I first heard about that. I wonder if it's a coincidence that the main character's name is 'Echo', which relates to the main theme of the series of how the 'dolls', or whatever they are, are supposed to become another person to fulfill a fantasy (thus they become 'Echoes'). I also wonder if the others have names like that.

And, also, the people who are bitching about Fox really need to get over it, because I think Joss has.

Quote:

it sounds dreadful, simply dreadful

and im a little tired of Joss "empowering" women, its becoming a one trick pony. Honestly his best female character was Zoe, no special powers, no abilities just a strong soulful woman who had seen a lot in life. I have no interest in this charmed/river/total recall teenfest. And on Fox ? Are words becoming meaningless.

Im gonna take my epsodes of firefly and treasure them but for me this dance is over.[


Worst post ever.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 4, 2007 1:00 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


Quote:

it sounds dreadful, simply dreadful

and im a little tired of Joss "empowering" women, its becoming a one trick pony. Honestly his best female character was Zoe, no special powers, no abilities just a strong soulful woman who had seen a lot in life. I have no interest in this charmed/river/total recall teenfest. And on Fox ? Are words becoming meaningless.

Im gonna take my epsodes of firefly and treasure them but for me this dance is over.[


Worst post ever.



I originally started to post something bitchy about it when I first saw it the other day, then I decided ultimately to just let the stupidity speak for itself.


***********************************************

"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse

"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass

for Joss

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 4, 2007 1:25 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


Quote:

Originally posted by Raycheetah:
I have learned that the basis of my statements was flawed, and, I acknowledge that the Buffy fandom doesn't necessarily share the same cause for distrust (as a discrete fan group) of F*X as the FF flans. I was, perhaps, guilty, in my vent against F*X, of irrationally attributing to that network an exploitative attitude toward the Buffy fans whom I (again, erroneously) believed had been wronged, as the FF flans were.



Buffy had seven years and while it was very sad to see it go, most of us agree with Joss, that the story had come to an end. That's not to say I'm not loving the comics, because I am, but the series ended, IMHO, as it should have.

But we were wronged by the WB when Angel was cancelled at least one year too soon (when the ratings were higher than ever, if I remember correctly) because the head of the WB didn't want two vamp shows on the network (another Dark Shadows was supposedly being created for the following season, but it didn't pan out and we still lost our show). The show was 5 years old, but Joss was NOT finished telling the story like he thought he was with Buffy at the time, so I am still very bitter about that, I admit.

Some of us are Veronica Mars fans too and we were wronged not by the CW (who's head was actually a fan of VM) but by the head of CBS, who only cared about the ratings, not the fans or the fact that it was a quality show. Apparently the gorram Pussycat Dolls were more important than VM.

So I know something about bitterness and being passionate about a show that gets abruptly cancelled. I started watching FF when it first aired because I already had big love and respect for Joss (although I wasn't into westerns or sci-fi---and Nathan was still Joey Buchanan from OLTL to me) and I enjoyed it but I didn't fall in love with it until I saw the eps. in order on DVD. I think starting with "The Train Job" kind of made it hard to immediately like. Not that I didn't enjoy the ep. eventually, but not as a start to the series.

Anyway, as much as I came to love FF, and Buffy and Angel, I love Joss Whedon more. He gave me (us) this amazing gift, by sharing these three wonderful worlds, and I will follow him anywhere...ABSOLUTELY!!!

Well, that about sums it up for me.

***********************************************

"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse

"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass

for Joss

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 4, 2007 3:34 AM

WOLFCRY


The premise for the show seems interesting, at least it's not yet another cop/investigation drama, or a spy flick, or any of the other ideas that have been repeated 1000 times over. I'll give this show a fair chance because I like the premise, Joss also gives it some extra credit. As for his decision to return to the fools at FOX, he knows exactly what he's getting himself into I'd wager, which is why he got this kind of deal from the outset. He's being very cautious, only touching them with a 92 foot pole. It's likely that this agreement also includes an excellent locked time slot and the episodes being viewed in their proper order,fixing everything that went wrong with Firefly's brief run.

As for the argument that Doll House's main character will be similar to River, that seems like missing a lot of what that character is about, it's only in Serenity that River becomes the "once broken but now empowered woman who kicks ass", in the series I found that you could relate to her (and Simon by extension) if A: You have or know someone who has metal health issues/disorders. B: You've dealt with chronic illness or health issues that are difficult to treat. It's been my experience that a character with those kinds of issues (on that level) doesn't have a major role in a show or movie often. The closest you usually get is "teen ANGST"(tm). So if this new show deals with some of those things again I won't mind at all. Joss will stop writing fantastical empowered women when people stop asking him why he does that. (or rather why he writes strong female characters in general.)

But perhaps I'm just a sucker for wanting to protect the quirky helpless outsider girl.

-----------------
The Above is always 100% correct, except when it isn't.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 4, 2007 4:25 AM

ZZETTA13


I happen to agree with a lot of what RayeCheetah has posted. He has his opinion and I respect it and others should too. If someone has a passionate disagreement then post it but I think we can lay off the name calling. If someone wants to enlighten me with things they know or their own opinion I’m ready to listen and share space.

I posted some of my feelings a little further up the thread and got some excellent feedback that made me feel better. I think that we’re really all on the same boat and want Joss to succeed with anything new he starts. We are concerned with what he’s done in the past and anything new in the future. If we weren’t then we wouldn’t care if “Dollhouse” faired well or tanked. Part of that concern deals with the rating numbers new projects generate. Think I’d feel a little safer had it been announced to be on a different network (JUST MY OPINION) and I could be wrong, but then maybe Joss has bargained himself and his people a better deal this time around .In fact I’m 99% sure of it, which is good that he did. Will it lead to other things, other works he has in mind or past projects he wants to look at again, who can tell? I wish him much luck and goodiness. I am a fan of many things but I don’t have to like everything someone does to be a fan. I mean for music lovers do we like every song sung by an artist we are fans of? I remember many, many moons ago a good friend of mine told me I should start watching this show called “Buffy”. I could see he really liked it but then how many of us are bombarded by the passions of others that want us like what they like? I didn’t watch the show at that time and it’s my loss. I will see it in the future guaranteed and may become a big Buffy fan, or Angel fan.

This is a Firefly board and I am a Joss fan due to FF. In my opinion I have never come across a tv series as excellent as this one yet. It hits on all cylinders and that’s why I enjoy it so. I like a lot of shows but most I wouldn’t feel smashed about if they happened to be cancelled. I came after FF was cancelled and I feel terrible about that. I want to ask WHY? Why wasn’t it given more time?

Anyway, just me sounding off a little, Z

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 4, 2007 8:51 AM

EMBERS


Z: I really agree, and I feel just as passionate about Firefly (and all of Joss' work).

I came to Firefly when it was first aired because I already loved BtVS and I knew that Joss would bring the same brilliant writing to the new project...
It was hard to watch Firefly, it was out of order, and it's hard to 'get' things out of sequence. And it was particularly hard because most of the aired episodes were aired at midnight! The sports came first, and then (for some weird reason) reruns of Friends came next, and finally my local Fox affiliate would run Firefly...after I had called them several times to be sure I would get my VCR set in time.

Anyway my experience was that Firefly was even more brilliant than Buffy (and I still love Buffy a lot), so therefore I have confidence that Dollhouse will be something really amazing.

I just don't see Joss peaking any time soon.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 4, 2007 11:28 PM

JWHEDONADDICT


Quote:

Originally posted by zzetta13:
I happen to agree with a lot of what RayeCheetah has posted. He has his opinion and I respect it and others should too. If someone has a passionate disagreement then post it but I think we can lay off the name calling. If someone wants to enlighten me with things they know or their own opinion I’m ready to listen and share space.



The problem some of us had--forget it I'm speaking for myself only--the problem that I had with Raycheetah was not his difference of opinion, but the way he presented it. It came off sounding disrespectful to Buffy fans. Not coming from that angle, I can understand how you might not see it that way though.

But, he apologized, and for me at least, it's over.

***********************************************

"We have the best fans in the business [in the] Buffy and Whedon universe. It's gonna be pandemonium when this [news] hits." --Eliza Dushku on Dollhouse

"Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned."--Ron Glass


for Joss

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 5, 2007 5:14 AM

PACHELBEL


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
Z: I really agree, and I feel just as passionate about Firefly (and all of Joss' work).

I came to Firefly when it was first aired because I already loved BtVS and I knew that Joss would bring the same brilliant writing to the new project...
It was hard to watch Firefly, it was out of order, and it's hard to 'get' things out of sequence. And it was particularly hard because most of the aired episodes were aired at midnight! The sports came first, and then (for some weird reason) reruns of Friends came next, and finally my local Fox affiliate would run Firefly...after I had called them several times to be sure I would get my VCR set in time.

Anyway my experience was that Firefly was even more brilliant than Buffy (and I still love Buffy a lot), so therefore I have confidence that Dollhouse will be something really amazing.

I just don't see Joss peaking any time soon.




I had a similar experience as you. When I heard a Joss Whedon show was going to be on, I knew I would watch it, not because of the show's premise, but because it was his show and my love for BtVS. To me, the premise of Dollhouse sounds stupid, but I'll give it a try because it's a Joss show. I thought Drive sounded stupid too, but I watched it because it was Tim's show and Nathan was in it, and I was broken when it was canceled. And, honestly, I'm worried about Dollhouse not lasting too long. However, the things that work best are when Joss and Tim are working together. They just seem to have some major symbiosis going!

I too recall chasing down air times for new episodes that were shown at midnight! That's one big difference with Fox and other networks. And, heck, hasn't the Bionic Woman pilot been shown at least 3 times now?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 5, 2007 9:51 PM

EMMAZULE


Well, if you're going to apologize RayCheetah, so will I most certainly. >.< I was sooooooooo cranky when I last posted; insomnia + having to work more on the weekend despite ostensibly "getting Saturday and Sunday off" + concerns about making enough money to feed myself every day, let alone get Christmas presents for family this year + seeing a OMG NEW JOSS SHOW is going to be made only to see half the fandom seemingly implode in the bad sense over it = CRANKY CRANKY CRANKY Emma! Sorry you ended up being the main target of the inevitable urge to rant at that point. ^^;;

Now, that said...

Quote:

I think I had every right to state my opinions, and, to express my perhaps "acidly" cynical attitude toward F*X. I apologize for obviously getting under your skin, Emma. My opinions were not personal attacks on you, or, on anyone else. Perhaps I did belabor the long-standing and acrimonious stance adopted by the fans of MANY shows (not merely Joss' FF) which, for one reason or another, did not succeed on F*X.


Love, yours was simply the straw that broke the camel's back - harmless in itself, but the last piece falling into place in a perfect storm of wow, could I BE mixing my metaphors more thoroughly here? But you get the idea.

And love, I definitely understand. For one, the only reason I'm a Firefly fan is because of a combination of Word of Mouth advertising, and Universal making the brilliant move of promoting "Serenity" by airing Firefly, in order, in a consistent timeslot! If it hadn't been cancelled - if the WoM had spread enough while it was still on the air - I would have been a fan in late 2002/early 2003, instead of late 2005! It took like, two episodes to make me totally in love with the show (actually, to be accurate, it took one episode for me to know I'd enjoy it - The Train Job - and another to fall utterly head over heels in LOVE - Our Mrs. Reynolds).

And I won't even get started on Wonderfalls - so fantastic that the measly handful of episodes they aired were SO memorable I bought it years later, simply because I found out they'd released all 13 episodes to DVD; the episodes made THAT much of an impression on me.

I'm also apparently one of the few people ever who watched Tru Calling up until the end, where it got totally awesome, and then totally cancelled (not Firefly/Wonderfalls awesome, but a kind of awesome nonetheless, especially if you read what the writers were actually going for - and epic, cosmically huge, overriding moral dilemma built right into the mythology of the series, with no easy answers ever to be given, where the entity that gives people a second chance to live may or may not be the "better" one. And, Jason Priestly actually made for a pretty damn good antagonist...).

I also saw potential in Painkiller Jane that was, admittedly, wasted but could have been reached in a second season. I only grew to love Dead Like Me after it was cancelled and long since on DVD, and on the cheesy "I am so totally a five year old on the inside" front, I was just dismayed to learn that Danny Phantom (which for a kids' cartoon show on Nickelodeon, is not half bad) had gotten canceled when the creator was apparently still full of ideas for another season. Oh, and let's not even get into Birds of Prey, which I fell in love with literally the last night it EVER AIRED, and Invader Zim, another great little cartoon series I only really got into after it was canceled... (here would be a good place to note that Danny Phantom is almost completely absent from DVD releases in English in the U.S. except for like one "greatest hits" type DVD with one episode on it with a bunch of other shows; Invader Zim's DVD set is still incomplete; and Birds of Prey is tangled up in a combination of Executive Apathy Syndrome and music rights issues, to the point where the only place or way to see it in the US is currently on bootleg DVDs ripped from TV broadcasts, or other such illegal methods). Oh, and Raines! On NBC. Anybody remember that one? Midseason replacement, lasted like four brilliant episodes. Silly concept, but great, and somewhat subversive plots and a great cast - probably never will see a DVD release, either. And The Book of Daniel, which was incredibly underrated, and died before all eight episodes could even be aired, also probably not "important" enough for a DVD release...

...I feel it, man. I know the pain well. I've just learned to live with it and look to the hopefully brighter future. ;) You get tons of good shows that die every year, but also, sometimes you get a Stargate:SG1 on occasion, where the cancellation is still sad news, but the show's had a crazy-long, and entertaining run and is going to get to finish the arc it's got going now, too, so it's still a happy ending.

Quote:


Anyone here remember a show called Babylon 5? That was my first active fandom, back in the early '90s (ST didn't really count). I expect the "asshats" who screwed over Firefly weren't even interns at that company yet. However, the same mishandling and ultimate cancellation of a great genre show (picked up by TNT, after F*X ditched it), is the origin of my deeply-ingrained distrust of that network.



I'm always kind of neutral on Fox if they haven't cancelled my newest pet show in recent months :p.

Because, see, very few other channels - let alone non-cable channels - would have ever given Firefly, or Wonderfalls, or The Simpsons, or The X-Files, or (as you just called to my attention) Babylon 5, or now Dollhouse, a chance in the first place. Firefly and Wonderfalls, and this show, they're EXTREMELY experimental in concept - it's kind of like a weird disconnect, between how much they're willing to experiment, and how much they're willing to go all out for a show, but without the dreaded Fox, I wouldn't have Firefly or Wonderfalls, both of which I'm completely in love with. So, I'm willing to forgive them slightly. I just hope they give Dollhouse some good support, and perhaps most importantly, a decent and CONSISTENT timeslot. Like NOT across from Heroes or CSI, for instance. :P

Quote:


I think that, had Dollhouse been picked up by any other network, the level of unvarnished enthusiasm would be much higher.



Oh, without a doubt yes. But save maybe for SciFi Channel, who would give it a much lower budget... or CW, same deal... I can't see very many networks (and especially non-cable networks) picking the thing up. MAYBE NBC lately, because between Heroes and Medium and other shows, they've been on a SF kick and trying it seems to aim at a younger demographic, but even then... I'm not sure they would. They frankly aren't much better for hanging on to some shows than Fox is (again, I cite Book of Daniel and Raines for this; Heroes sticks around because it has an audience of like 20-30 MILLION viewers... otherwise, it woulda gotten canned, you know it would). The only difference is, sadly, Fox did it to Firefly and Wonderfalls (and Drive, apparently). ;)

Quote:


Please, Emma, don't mistake the distrust many of us have for F*X as not wanting Joss, or, his show, to succeed, nor, as considering Joss to be an "idiot," which is a terrible pejorative to use, especially toward someone whom you don't know.



Ironically, that was MEANT (but in hindsight, failed horrible to come across as) to be the less brutal, more affectionate and gentle portion of the post - a sort of buddy-buddy feel that came across... not as buddy-buddy at all. If there had been tone of voice... but there wasn't, and I was silly to forget that. I blame my sleep-addled brain for that. :P My apologies.

Quote:


I respect Joss for what he has done, for Firefly and Serenity, on a personal level; for the Buffyverse, on behalf of those who love it (such as my wife) as much as I love FF/S; and for what he has done as a creative force, in many fields, not to mention his humanitarian efforts.

At the same time, Dollhouse doesn't sound like my kinda thing. I'll give it a chance, but, I think it is fair to say that, as with Buffy, I may see it, and, be able to take it or leave it. More troubling with it being on F*X, is the fact that, if it turns out to be something we end up loving as passionately as whichever of his other productions we do, it is still in the hands of a studio which has mishandled Joss' and other series.



To be honest, if you look at every network's track record...

...NBC, Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, and yes even that bastion of cultyness, SciFi Channel, and that bastion of "lower expectations", the WB/UPN/CW...

...they're not really historically all that much better for retaining great shows than Fox. Witness for instance, the very public dismay folks had for the cancellation of Justice League Unlimited (Cartoon Network), Danny Phantom (Nick), Birds of Prey (WB), Angel (WB), and so on, and of course us weird few who kind of liked Painkiller Jane (SciFi Channel), the only slightly less few I think that liked Raines or The Book of Daniel (both NBC)... oh! And Joan of Arcadia - two seasons, quick death, aired on CBS. And Dead Like Me - two seasons, quick death, aired on Showtime. I'm going to stop now, because I could probably do it from memory all night long, and not only am I too tired to actually do that, but you don't want to read it, because it's mostly a pretty depressing list. :P

So... yeah. I'm not so sure I'd be all THAT much less nervous if this was on NBC, either.

Quote:


I apologize for my ignorance about the circumstances of the ends of Buffy and Angel. Thank you for correcting my misperceptions.



Glad I could help. :)

Additionally with Buffy, at the time, it came to a good stopping point for Joss, and until his brainpan started rattlin' again, it was kind of ready to over. And, in a very nice turn of events, even though he couldn't really revive the TV series proper, with Buffy, the transition to comics was MUCH easier. The Firefly comic miniseries was OK, but too short to do much but explain what happened to the Blue Hands and such. But Buffy Season Eight (yes, that's the literal title) is thus far really great, retaining much of the flavor of the original series and continuing it in a truly fun and exciting way (for one thing? The US government has apparently decided that Buffy's a charismatic terrorist leader amassing an army of fellow Slayers - bizarre and entertaining, suffice it to say! And Faith's got her own arc now, too). Buffy WORKS as a comic, for some reason, and the continuation there feels much more natural. And that all is ignoring the fact that the last two TV seasons are often not as beloved amongst Buffy fans to begin with - though those who stuck with it 'till the finale appreciated the musical episode ("Once More, With Feeling" - an utter classic Buffy episode) and the final episode "Chosen", which was a nice finish to the series anyway. But six and seven were weaker seasons. It's easier to let go when the show seems to be running out of steam a little. Kind of my feelings on the last season of Stargate:SG-1 actually - after that last arc gets finished, not much more epic heights they can GET to, you know?

Quote:


And, it has been observed in the flandom that "From the Creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer" was part of what turned a lot of now-Browncoats away from seeing Serenity in the theaters, in the first place. Whether they didn't like Buffy, or, thought it was okay, it was not an association that motivated them to see Serenity. While there is a lot of overlap between the fandoms, they are not the same. Some folks like apples, some, oranges. Some like a nice, mixed fruit salad.



I think Dollhouse is going to be an odd duck in the bunch. See, it's SF, with concepts similar to some found in Firefly.

But it's not a homey space western, either.

I have a feeling that, like with Tru Calling, you will find people who aren't an obsessive fan of Buffy and may not have gotten into Firefly yet, but like it. Like Buffy and Firefly, you'll find some crossover fandom (people like me that just really enjoy almost everything Joss's done to at least some extent), but you'll also find a lot of them that are unique to that particular show's fandom. Watch me be psychic! ;)

Quote:


Me, I cut my fruit open with a knife, before I decide.



If it weren't for the fact that the last two Tim Minear shows I've tried (Wonderfalls and Dead Like Me) weren't really entertaining, and the last THREE Joss shows I had tried weren't also really entertaining to me, with lots of great dialogue and interesting characters and fun plots, and if both of the major roles (Faith, and Tru Davies) that I saw Eliza Dushku in hadn't been interesting, and if I didn't have enough of a SF obsession to know how much possibility such a seemingly blah idea could really have... I probably would be the same way. For instance, like I said above, I have an affection for the cartoon series Danny Phantom. However, it's the only Butch Hartman-created show I like, and it really isn't something I'm anywhere near as in love with as Firefly or Wonderfalls, so a show merely being created by him just wouldn't have the same draw; the same could be said of Jerry Bruckheimer or JJ Abrams or that Law & Order guy - yeah, they've done some stuff I enjoyed, but they've done stuff I was kind of neutral on or didn't like, too, so their names don't mean much on show to me compared to the cast and concept.

But Tim Minear + Joss Whedon + Eliza Dushku + this concept = such crazy possibilities in my head that I can't help but be eager to see this. They've never steered me wrong before, and I don't think they will this time, either. :)

Quote:


And, I acknowledge your point, that Joss has won a commitment to 7 eps, and, that he can, therefore, plan his arc to have an open-ended completion. In effect, he has a mini-series. It still runs counter to my instincts to credit the 21st Century monolith with the good sense to handle this one right. Instincts aside, reason might dictate that the execs in charge this time would know better than to mess with the opportunity they've handed Joss.

Time will tell.



Hopefully it'll tell us "this is the Fox version of Heroes, only less derivative of other genre series and slightly less cheesy". (Heroes over on NBC started out with only eight episodes, which likewise contained a complete arc with an open ending - which got to be expanded considerably and is now maddeningly addictive to a lot of us for some reason)

Quote:


At any rate, I am very disappointed that this thread has turned out to be so full of unnecessary animosity and naked hostility between /fans/; we should, all of us, be above such rancor.

As for my being a "picklepuss," well, I affirm that those who know me are far better entitled to call me names than you are, Emma.



You do realize that "picklepuss" was meant to be a silly-sounding insult, right? Gorramit, why do I always forget how little tone of voice really carries in these things? Anyway. It's basically an odd version of "sourpuss" - basically, a person who rains on someones parade. I was just trying to stick an umbrella up, is all. Why do I get the feeling calling you a sourpuss wouldn't get quite such an annoyed response, though? Aw man, let me have my funny goofy too-silly-to-be-a-really-insulting semi-insults, they're all I have left when I'm cranky like that, like a last vestige of sanity, the last bit of glue that keeps the pot from shattering. I could butcher another metaphor here if you'd like, but as that would probably be tantamount to Cruel and Unusual treatment of the English language I'll refrain from it.

Quote:


As well, please, don't presume to attribute motives me. Of COURSE I want this show to succeed; it is a common-sense observation that Joss' success contributes toward the possibility of more of the 'Verse, in some form.



Uh... OK, forgive me for blanching at that a little (is that a real word? I'll just assume it is...). But did you not rather extensively complain about how this would "distract" Joss from Firefly, for one? And how Fox should totally be renewing Firefly instead of doing another new show (or something very close to that)?

That sounds like a pretty noticeable expression of a "motive" for feeling "bitter" to me, and frankly it sounds like a perfectly understandable motive to feel like expressing an opinion that that show will fail because of who's funding it.

I understand the distaste for being misunderstood, believe me - but I judged you only by what your words said to me. "She understands, but she doesn't comprehend", I suppose... but I think it's going two ways this time, just a little. :P

Quote:


On the other hand, if you will grant me the favor of not judging me solely by my contributions to this, one thread, you might come to know me better, if we have occasion to cross paths, again, on some other thread or forum.



Well yes. But with only ONE exception in my entire life, and on a forum where everyone was considerably... I'd like to say "feistier" to each other, though most would say "closer to flaming" each other... did I actually actively dislike a person to the point of never wanting to respond in the same thread as them. And, in my defense... she really was kind of a little obnoxious and unnecessarily bitchy, one of those kinds that won't listen to what you actually say in support of your argument/in defense, either, just ignored it to snark at you more in a REALLY immature and not even (here's the real sin, here) funny manner. :P I'm kind of glad I don't post there anymore... but, yeah. These forums, are not that kind of forum. Squabbles, from the number of months I've read posts on here and such, are generally brief (and, like this one, often end with surprising civility!).

I think that's why I still post here, and don't at the other place.

So, er... in short, don't worry. I won't judge you in other topics based on this, especially not negatively, promise. ;)

Quote:


Make it a shiny day!



Do I get Optimist Points removed for thinking it won't be, when I was silly enough to not try to go to bed until almost 3 AM when I had to get up at nine and will probably be woken more like 7, and have having trouble falling asleep in less than an hour or two, lately? And have a big test tommorrow? That I didn't study for yet because I'm a ruttin' genius I am?

But at least something that could have raised my blood pressure didn't, because someone way kinda way more mature than they even needed to be, techncially ;). That's a good sign, right?


~Emma

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

FFF.NET SOCIAL