GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

THE TAMS

POSTED BY: HUMBLE
UPDATED: Thursday, December 18, 2003 17:14
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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:11 PM

HUMBLE


tell me what y'all think of this. the tams' father works for the blue sun company. the mother is loyal to the father. blue sun has an ongoing special research project going on based on the human brain's ability to "rewire" itself after traumatic damage. (it creates new neural pathways to bypass damaged areas naturally, as a survival mechanism) the father is given a choice by blue sun of giving up the son or the daughter. he chooses the daughter, based on chinese culture of preference to male children carrying on the family bloodline. when simon confronts both parents with river's letters, they know full well that something is going on, but resign themselves to protecting their son. the daughter is expendable. my trouble with this line of reasoning is: what is the point of this research being done on river as well as others? to make her into one of the blue gloves? possibly to then get simon and do this to him as well? another speculation is that the procedures are an extrapolation of human evolutionary development based on computer probability models. the blue gloves are trying to make the next evolutionary step of mankind in a laboratory. someone with a higher state of consciousness. i like this line of thought(no pun intended), because it brings into play river's natural high synaptic activity, her youth (ability to regenerate from trauma), and her intellectual versatility (savant at everything). one thought occurs to me is why don't the blue gloves just "make" more rivers in a laboratory, or ma and pa tam just have more kids? whaday'all think?

to river:shine on crazy diamond!

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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:31 PM

SERGEANTX


Been thinking about that one too. I wonder if there isn't something more behind the line "River was more than gifted, she was a gift". Someone has suggested that the Tams made a deal with the devil(Blue Sun) to give them a gifted son in exchange for the daughter.

Maybe Simon was recognized as especially powerful mentally and Blue Sun approached the Tams with an offer. "Let us genetically engineer a baby from your naturally superior genetic material, then you raise her for us. In exchange you'll receive wealth and comfort and a successful life for your son."

Was it ever clear how the Tams maintained their wealth?

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:46 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE


I hate to say that my mind wandered down the same road. But isn't that the story to Ender's game? I suppose it isn't improbable that we could see an alternative version of that storyline played out.

I was hoping (not in an evil way) that River's unfortunate experience at the academy was somehow due to ---- how can I explain this? the same sort of thing that Niska was intersted in... and that Book was talking to Simon about.... who was it dr shan yu or some such name?

I thought that perhaps River might have gotten caught up in an experiment to see how much her mind could take in a certain area... and not just that. Most definitely, she was not the first in a series of brain-altering experiments to see how much "they" could change very intelligent people into what they wanted them to be. I wish I could formulate exactly what it is that I think "they" wanted. I have idea's, but they just won't come out yet.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:47 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE


double

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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:47 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE


and triple post

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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:58 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND


Ooh, I can present my theories now! Yay! Whatever it is the blue guys were trying to achieve with River I don't think its something they can do with just anyone. It was something specific and I believe, natural to River that made her the perfect subject for their experiments. Which explains why they want her back so badly. I think they've tried before with lesser subjects and failed. And in failing created the Reavers. Okay, so its not entirely original, but it does make sense with the scant evidence we have.

I also don't believe the Tam parents knowingly participated in hurting their daughter. They chose to turn a blind eye to Simon's beliefs precisely for the reason Simon seemed to believe they did. They were just that preoccupied with their own standing in society and didn't want anything to jeopardize it.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 9:21 PM

SHINY


Quote:

Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
But isn't that the story to Ender's game?



That was my reaction as well. Not that it's a bad thing; Ender's game is one of my favorite books (it was all the sequels that sucked)

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:27 PM

HUMBLE


in addendum to the blue gloved men. thought it interesting that they had weapons technology that was able to (i'm guessing) disrupt blood vessels in human beings (as on ariel) without said devices affecting them. possibly these devices affect victim's autonomic neural systems? if this is true, why doesn't it affect blue glovers as well? some kind of immunity? are they androids, cybernetically enhanced beings? they don't seem to display emotions (this might imply a type of psychological conditioning/lobotimizing procedures). where do they get those neat toys? in relation to ender (andrew) wiggins, yes this does bear some similarity to those novels. (with the loving sister and the evil older brother) however, ender didn't have surgical procedures also had a nervous breakdown if i remember right. wonder how much of a sci-fi reader joss is? never the less, my reasoning leads to the question of why do they NEED to develop enhanced human beings? have they discovered the presence of other, possibly hostile, alien life forms or are unknown "others" developing supermen as well (competing company/country)? maybe blue sun needs these to fight off reavers? possibly. on the mother and father, i think they dost protest too much. they're liars and bad ones at that. body language gave them away, and total "inability" to even entertain idea that one of their children might be in danger seals the deal. they know.

hope the movie isn't too cliched from other sci-fi contamination (example:it's all up to "us" to save the world as we know it) i'm sure joss will have twists in it that no one sees yet!

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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:28 PM

HUMBLE


sorry about the blank postings to follow! something odd going on with updating posts.

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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:28 PM

HUMBLE




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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:28 PM

HUMBLE




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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:29 PM

HUMBLE



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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:29 PM

HUMBLE



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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:29 PM

HUMBLE



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Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:30 PM

HUMBLE



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Thursday, December 18, 2003 1:45 AM

HARLOCK


What I think is that they knew that the goverment was holding her and their is nothing that they could do, I think that they more or less killed her in thier own minds and then focused on the son. I took it that they were more worried that they would be the target of the goverment if they spoke up, they did not what to make any waves is that wrong, I don't know.

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Thursday, December 18, 2003 3:49 AM

DRAKON


Quote:

Originally posted by Harlock:
What I think is that they knew that the goverment was holding her and their is nothing that they could do, I think that they more or less killed her in thier own minds and then focused on the son. I took it that they were more worried that they would be the target of the goverment if they spoke up, they did not what to make any waves is that wrong, I don't know.



It is unclear just what Mr. Tam's deal was. Either way, River was not Tam's property, to be bought, sold or bartered. She is a person. (Although Firefly seems kinda dodgy on whether slavery is present)

Not sticking up for your kids, allowing them to become medical experiments or whatever else they did to River, that's wrong. Period. It is deriliction of duty as a parent. It may be that there was nothing they could do, that the government would have killed them all, and that makes the issue a bit more tricky. But still as a parent, you take care of your kids.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Thursday, December 18, 2003 9:19 AM

AMNON


Quote:

Originally posted by Drakon:
Firefly seems kinda dodgy on whether slavery is present ....



Slavery exists - not necesarily under the Aliance, but in the border planets definitly. In Serenity (the pilot) as Mal & co. step into Badger's lair, Badger's inspecting some woman's teeth. That's a slave for you.

As for the "ender's game" theory - I posted something to that effect some months ago, but in a more direct form: Simon is a genius, Blue Gloves offer $ to Tams for another child, which they genetically enhance. I'm not thinking "Ender's game" as much as "Ender's Shadow". That series of books (about Bean) is *much* better that the Ender series anyway.

--
Too much of you is less of a balm.

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Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:16 AM

ASTRIANA


Quote:

Originally posted by Amnon:
Quote:

Originally posted by Drakon:
Firefly seems kinda dodgy on whether slavery is present ....



Slavery exists - not necesarily under the Aliance, but in the border planets definitly. In Serenity (the pilot) as Mal & co. step into Badger's lair, Badger's inspecting some woman's teeth. That's a slave for you.



Also, consider the beginning of Shindig, when Mal lifts his pool opponent's wallet because he's talking about being a slave trader.

Sorry about multiples, weirdness occurs.

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:16 AM

ASTRIANA


Quote:

Originally posted by Amnon:
Quote:

Originally posted by Drakon:
Firefly seems kinda dodgy on whether slavery is present ....



Slavery exists - not necesarily under the Aliance, but in the border planets definitly. In Serenity (the pilot) as Mal & co. step into Badger's lair, Badger's inspecting some woman's teeth. That's a slave for you.



Also, consider the beginning of Shindig, when Mal lifts his pool opponent's wallet because he's talking about being a slave trader.

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:16 AM

ASTRIANA


Quote:

Originally posted by Amnon:
Quote:

Originally posted by Drakon:
Firefly seems kinda dodgy on whether slavery is present ....



Slavery exists - not necesarily under the Aliance, but in the border planets definitly. In Serenity (the pilot) as Mal & co. step into Badger's lair, Badger's inspecting some woman's teeth. That's a slave for you.



Also, consider the beginning of Shindig, when Mal lifts his pool opponent's wallet because he's talking about being a slave trader.

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Thursday, December 18, 2003 5:13 PM

TEELABROWN


Haven't thought of that. Well, not a lot, really. I like it, thought. Very well done, though! *claps* (Not really, but my mind does)

Shiny work! Keep flyin' and Happy Holidays!

............................................................................................
"Freedom is the Freedom to say that 2+2 makes 4. If that is granted, all else follws"-Winston, 1984
Keep flyin', and remember, THEY can't take the sky from US!

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Thursday, December 18, 2003 5:13 PM

TEELABROWN


Haven't thought of that. Well, not a lot, really. I like it, thought. Very well done, though! *claps* (Not really, but my mind does)

Shiny work! Keep flyin' and Happy Holidays!

............................................................................................
"Freedom is the Freedom to say that 2+2 makes 4. If that is granted, all else follws"-Winston, 1984
Keep flyin', and remember, THEY can't take the sky from US!

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Thursday, December 18, 2003 5:13 PM

TEELABROWN


Also (Sorry if said before)- If the company was Blue Sun, and Blue Hands work for them, I think there's a tie between them. What if Joss was planning that? Or am I just being paranoid?

............................................................................................
"Freedom is the Freedom to say that 2+2 makes 4. If that is granted, all else follws"-Winston, 1984
Keep flyin', and remember, THEY can't take the sky from US!

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Thursday, December 18, 2003 5:14 PM

TEELABROWN


Gorram computer.

............................................................................................
"Freedom is the Freedom to say that 2+2 makes 4. If that is granted, all else follws"-Winston, 1984
Keep flyin', and remember, THEY can't take the sky from US!

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Thursday, December 18, 2003 5:14 PM

TEELABROWN


Computer acting up. Sorry about so many posts that say the same thing.

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