Question about Book by zeke023

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Question about Book

POSTED BY: ZEKE023
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:32
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Monday, December 15, 2003 5:03 AM

In objects in space River is reading people's minds (so it seems). She walks through the room with Book and Jayne and hears what they are both thinking. Jayne makes some comment about "I got stupid; the money was too good." Book says "I don't give two humps if your innocent or not, so where does that put you."

What the hell is Book talking about and is he directing his thought at River or Jayne?

Does this thought seem somehow out of charcter for Book? Could it lead us to some insight of who he really is?

-Z

"There are more than seventy earths in this galaxy and the meek's inherited not a one of 'em."

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Monday, December 15, 2003 5:22 AM

BUCKTHORN

IMHO, it's one of the many things to file under the heading, "If the Series Had Continued, We'd Know More About This".

*sigh*

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Monday, December 15, 2003 10:40 AM

WHOODAHN

Quote:
Originally posted by zeke023:
What the hell is Book talking about and is he directing his thought at River or Jayne?

I don't think Book was directing his thought to either River or Jayne. I think River was just picking up thoughts that happened to be close to the surface.
Jayne was still thinking about what happened between him and Mal. I think Book was thinking about something he had said at one time or may have been said to him. Maybe that's why he left his former life and joined the Abbey. Maybe he was accused of something at the Abbey and decided to leave. It's still on his mind and River picked it up.

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Monday, December 15, 2003 11:11 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

I love Book. I can't think enough about him. After seeing the new scene from this episode in the dvd, I have changed my mind regarding whther River was actually there or not. The new scene with Mal and Inara

Select to view spoiler:

in which Mal says something to Inara regarding when or how to tell the crew the news that she is planning to leave, I think, shows that Mal couldn't see River or he wouldn't have said what he did in front of her.

So this leads me to believe that Book couldn't see her either, and neither could anyone else, very likely. It seemed like all of the moments that River walked in on were private moments between the other crew members. The only time the crew was looking directly at her was when she was having a psychic event; they seemed to ignore her otherwise.

So, that said, I believe Book was referring to Jayne in his thoughts. Since OIS is the last episode, it doesn't seem improbable that River and/or Simon have discussed Jayne's betrayal with Book by then. Book doesn't care whether Jayne maintains his pretenses of being innocent or not, because he knows the truth. He just wants to know how Jayne fits in now and what he will do, because everybody knows he played the part of a traitor.

-------------------------------------------
Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
-------------------------------------------

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Monday, December 15, 2003 12:33 PM

WHOODAHN

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
So, that said, I believe Book was referring to Jayne in his thoughts. Since OIS is the last episode, it doesn't seem improbable that River and/or Simon have discussed Jayne's betrayal with Book by then. Book doesn't care whether Jayne maintains his pretenses of being innocent or not, because he knows the truth. He just wants to know how Jayne fits in now and what he will do, because everybody knows he played the part of a traitor.

IMHO: I don't think so. I don't see Jayne claiming to be innocent. He admitted to Mal that he did it and he was stupid.

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Monday, December 15, 2003 12:52 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE

Quote:
Originally posted by WhooDahn:
Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
So, that said, I believe Book was referring to Jayne in his thoughts. Since OIS is the last episode, it doesn't seem improbable that River and/or Simon have discussed Jayne's betrayal with Book by then. Book doesn't care whether Jayne maintains his pretenses of being innocent or not, because he knows the truth. He just wants to know how Jayne fits in now and what he will do, because everybody knows he played the part of a traitor.

IMHO: I don't think so. I don't see Jayne claiming to be innocent. He admitted to Mal that he did it and he was stupid.

I think that's irrelevant because what we hear River "overhearing" of the Book/Jayne conversation is not discussed openly. Jayne wouldn't have said anything about his betrayal to anybody, he wanted Mal to make up a lie for him when he thought Mal was going to let him get sucked out of the ship.

I think he believes Mal was giving him a chance to change his ways, and I don't think Jayne would mess that up by admitting what he did to everybody. But unfortunately for Jayne, he knows that River and Simon are on to him, and I think that is reason enough for Jayne to speculate that they might have told Book about him.... thus making his statement (which I believe was directed at Book) an insight into Jayne trying to validate his actions to himself and (inaudibly) to Book.

-------------------------------------------
Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
-------------------------------------------

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:08 AM

ZEKE023

Quote:

I think he believes Mal was giving him a chance to change his ways, and I don't think Jayne would mess that up by admitting what he did to everybody.

I think this is right. There's another scene where Jayne makes a reference to the whole incident inadvertantly and Mal says "Is that where you want this conversation to go?" and they just drop it.

It shows that Jayne isn't about to tell anyone about the ordeal and Mal doesn't expect him to.

Jayne is selfish (probably on the road to redemption if we know Joss), but what about Book? Clearly everyone else who River read was saying exactly what they were thinking at that moment. Why was Book thiking that just then?

For that matter, why was Jayne thinking about his betrayal if he couldn't see River? (if that is true)

Anyone remember what Book and Jayne were discussing before River came in?

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:31 PM

ASTRIANA

Quote:
Clearly everyone else who River read was saying exactly what they were thinking at that moment. Why was Book thinking that just then?

For that matter, why was Jayne thinking about his betrayal if he couldn't see River? (if that is true)

Anyone remember what Book and Jayne were discussing before River came in?

There was a theory (posted on another thread) that River wasn't necessarily seeing what people were thinking in the exact moment, but either shortly before or shortly after they thought it. For example, Simon actually says "I would still be there..." toward the end of OIS. And the words River heard from Jayne were nearly (if not exactly) the same ones that Jayne used to explain himself to Mal in the airlock scene of Ariel.

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:32 PM

ASTRIANA

Quote:
Anyone remember what Book and Jayne were discussing before River came in?

Jayne was picking Book's brain about the celibacy aspects of being a Shepherd.

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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