GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Imponderable Watercooler: Laundry Turn-ons

POSTED BY: FLYVOTE
UPDATED: Monday, April 16, 2007 06:36
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5505
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Friday, April 13, 2007 10:17 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by LittleAlbatross29:
to you JQ !

I found my dress...'cause I can't be seeing all the pretties and not have one too..



It's called Pink Chocolate..

Bryce
********


tommorow is our permanent address
and there they'll scarcely find us(if they do,
we'll move away still further:into now



You can have money to buy a slinky dress.


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Friday, April 13, 2007 10:22 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


*sigh* You can add me to that harem , Flyvote !


Bryce
*********


tommorow is our permanent address
and there they'll scarcely find us(if they do,
we'll move away still further:into now

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Friday, April 13, 2007 10:22 AM

RUGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:


You can have money to buy a slinky dress.




You just keep trying to add more and more of us to the harem, dontchya?

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, April 13, 2007 10:30 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by LittleAlbatross29:
*sigh* You can add me to that harem , Flyvote !

Bryce
*********



Quote:

Originally posted by RugBug:
You just keep trying to add more and more of us to the harem, dontchya?
/



I'll have American Express add your names to the card...





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Friday, April 13, 2007 10:37 AM

RUGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:


I'll have American Express add you name to the card...






That's a dangerous game you're playing.





But, sadly, I'm not one to be bought. You'll have better luck with the attentiveness than the money.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, April 13, 2007 10:39 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by RugBug:
Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:


I'll have American Express add you name to the card...






That's a dangerous game you're playing.





But, sadly, I'm not one to be bought. You'll have better luck with the attentiveness than the money.




All part of the harem package.


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Friday, April 13, 2007 10:44 AM

RUGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
Quote:

Originally posted by RugBug:
Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:


I'll have American Express add you name to the card...






That's a dangerous game you're playing.





But, sadly, I'm not one to be bought. You'll have better luck with the attentiveness than the money.




All part of the harem package.




As long as it's a package deal. But, I've got a date in Texas, with my purdy tan dress.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, April 13, 2007 11:00 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by RugBug:
But, I've got a date in Texas, with my purdy tan dress.


Sweet I got one of them purdy ladies all to myself. We don't needs no harem.

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Friday, April 13, 2007 11:32 AM

MSG


Great red dresses Rugbug..I have one that's similar ( goes with my mile high red strappy sandals)

OK HK this is for you
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_so_2/104-7958463-3678354?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3
A1036592%2Cn%3A1040660%2Cn%3A1045024%2Cp%5F4%3AR%20%26%20M%20Richards&page=1


If I can't have it, you definitely should ( plus you'd look better in it anyway...asymmetrical looks a bit off on me being so short)


HUGS to all and sundry and I will be heading out now
though before I go I must show you my Inara dress for D*C ( though I'm doing it with a black, red and gold chinese patterned pashmina instead of the neck scarf)



"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs



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Friday, April 13, 2007 12:12 PM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


OOhh Msg that's just lovely..I bet it will look stunning on you !


Bryce
*********


tommorow is our permanent address
and there they'll scarcely find us(if they do,
we'll move away still further:into now

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Friday, April 13, 2007 12:30 PM

RHYIANAN


OOOOO lots of very pretty dresses......

*does whatever the mental equivelent to drooling is*

I want dresses.....and places to wear them.

*does the cute pouty thing children excel at*

Edit: While looking at the dresses again, I realized that half of the ones I didn't like I would wear if they were black...


I'm a leaf on the wind

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Friday, April 13, 2007 12:58 PM

RUGBUG


Well, I'm off for a weekend of horse show fun (hopefully it will be fun).

Hope you all have great weekends.

I'll try to check in on Monday.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Friday, April 13, 2007 1:34 PM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by RugBug:
As long as it's a package deal. But, I've got a date in Texas, with my purdy tan dress.



My beautiful virtual harem women are certainly allowed to date (even Texans). In fact, since I'm not providing anything intimate, they are encouraged.

Just as long as you eventually return home for a fine meal, when you need to talk, or want pretty things. I'll even walk you down the isle to your groom and part with a dowry if/when that time comes.




Edit: Off to cook. Missus coming home soon.

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Friday, April 13, 2007 1:42 PM

PENGUIN


I look good in pink!




King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Friday, April 13, 2007 3:42 PM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by Penguin:
I look good in pink!




What's black and white and looks good in pink?

Correct!

I'll take cross dressers for $400, Alex.


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Friday, April 13, 2007 4:06 PM

RHYIANAN


This is off topic, but don't you think it's unfair that girls can wear guy's clothes (i.e. pants) with no adverse consequences, but guys can't wear girl's clothes without being ostracized?

Similarly, girls can be "tomboys" but there doesn't seem to be a male equivelent to that. Little boys that want to play with dolls and such are usually made fun of.


Having said that, I am very disturbed by the sight of a man in a dress, but I still understand the inequality of it.


I'm a leaf on the wind

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Friday, April 13, 2007 4:13 PM

PENGUIN


Even Nathan???

http://www.kiltmen.com/celeb-nathanfillion.JPG






King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Friday, April 13, 2007 4:38 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Quote:

Originally posted by Penguin:
Even Nathan???

http://www.kiltmen.com/celeb-nathanfillion.JPG



Kilt does not equal dress... quite. I wonder why that is?

Edit: I think this image has a better quality (and now! with Alan Tudyk):



---

"If I were a Nazi, someone would defend my constitutional right to hate Jews. If I were a Klansman, someone would defend my rights to hate blacks. It's a funny place, this world. Hate has rights. Love has none." - Jeff, Murphy's Boy

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 4:07 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by Penguin:
Even Nathan???

http://www.kiltmen.com/celeb-nathanfillion.JPG




(Nathan is the one on the right.)






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Saturday, April 14, 2007 4:11 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by Penguin:
Even Nathan???

http://www.kiltmen.com/celeb-nathanfillion.JPG





Johnny : Where did you get that dress? Its awful... and those shoes, and that coat, geeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz.


(Airplane)


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Saturday, April 14, 2007 1:41 PM

MSG


OK LA pm'd me that there was some sort of technical difficulty with my sig making it not so appropriate. If you see icky things, I'm sorry. It may have something to do with the link I used for the pic...eeep

Penguin you do look lovely in pink

Manskirt....

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs


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Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:23 PM

PENGUIN


Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
OK LA pm'd me that there was some sort of technical difficulty with my sig making it not so appropriate. If you see icky things, I'm sorry. It may have something to do with the link I used for the pic...eeep


If anyone is using Firefox, download the Adblock extension and right-click to block the image...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1865



King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 5:52 PM

DANCINGNEKO


*peeks in* *waves to everyone*
Things for me are busy and "interesting" right now -- How interesting?
Think Wash.
(Times like these, HK might be right about hearts)

Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
OK LA pm'd me that there was some sort of technical difficulty with my sig making it not so appropriate. If you see icky things, I'm sorry. It may have something to do with the link I used for the pic...eeep




Yep, looks like someone decided to crack the website (ewww...). Hopefully the web folks that own the stuff have a backup version...

Quote:

Manskirt....


Like this? (might be a bit big...)
or this? or this one?

(Wonder if it's possible to get Nathan, Sean, Adam, or Alan to wear one the next time they visit the polynesian area?)

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Sunday, April 15, 2007 4:27 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
OK LA pm'd me that there was some sort of technical difficulty with my sig making it not so appropriate. If you see icky things, I'm sorry. It may have something to do with the link I used for the pic...eeep




MSG - I sent you a PM or two. You _can_ go back to the posted messages and remove the photos. Just go back to each of your messages that have the photo, select "edit", and remove the line in the message that has the link to the photo. It was the site that you linked to that had the photo change from the cat to what it is now, not the FFF.net site. Removing all of those links would fix this mess.




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Sunday, April 15, 2007 4:41 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


um. i haven't had any trouble seeing MsG's cat pictures.
and i'm lurking alla time, everywhere.
maybe it's mass hallucination....
*slooooowly backs away....*

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Sunday, April 15, 2007 4:52 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
um. i haven't had any trouble seeing MsG's cat pictures.
and i'm lurking alla time, everywhere.
maybe it's mass hallucination....
*slooooowly backs away....*





Your service provider has probably buffered the cat photo. Count yourself lucky. I only saw the cat photo for a while, but then after a bit I was treated to the disgusting photo. I hope MSG is willing to go back and edit the link out of the dozen-or-so messages - the photo is vile.


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Sunday, April 15, 2007 4:56 AM

FLYVOTE


It does now look like the source site has restored the photo, but it is still buffered in the FFF.net threads.

Best not to hot-link. I've offered to help MSG with that, if she needs/wants my help.


Edit: Kudos to MisterG for the clean up effort. Big Thanks! MisterG!

Yay! The thread is P-13 again!



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Sunday, April 15, 2007 9:01 AM

MSG


I think we got them all..sorry for the ick folks...Yes I agree that photo is seriously disgusting ( and now burned into my retinas as I've removed it from hundreds of posts)
Also, I noticed, I post a lot...

I think I may be traumatized...
I did send Haken an email to let him know what happened...and I thank you all for helping me with clean-up and such!

BIG HUGS and thanks to MisterG for spending hours of his Sunday helping delete icky porn



"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs


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Sunday, April 15, 2007 9:48 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
I think we got them all..sorry for the ick folks...Yes I agree that photo is seriously disgusting ( and now burned into my retinas as I've removed it from hundreds of posts)
Also, I noticed, I post a lot...

I think I may be traumatized...
I did send Haken an email to let him know what happened...and I thank you all for helping me with clean-up and such!

BIG HUGS and thanks to MisterG for spending hours of his Sunday helping delete icky porn





You found a good man. Nearly as good as the woman he found.

Please don't slow your posting!



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Monday, April 16, 2007 2:49 AM

JONNYQUEST

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"


GOOD MONDAY MORNING, BROWNCOATIE FAMILY!!
Picking up where y'all left off...
Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
Quote:

Originally posted by Penguin:
Even Nathan???
http://www.kiltmen.com/celeb-nathanfillion.JPG



Johnny : Where did you get that dress? Its awful... and those shoes, and that coat, geeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz.
(Airplane)


Uh, Flyvote, "Jonny" is spelled with no "H"...and per Mavs I'm not allowed to where skirts. (Lucky Penguin)
Quote:

Originally posted by Dancingneko:
*peeks in* *waves to everyone*
Things for me are busy and "interesting" right now -- How interesting?
Think Wash.
(Times like these, HK might be right about hearts)


Neko, so glad you chimed in. So sorry for the heart pains.
(And now I hear Don Ho died. I think we need to declare a "let's DancingNeko to dance her troubles away day" or something.)
Quote:

Originally posted by Dancingneko:
*
Quote:

Manskirt....


Like this? (might be a bit big...)


Big is bad??
Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
BIG HUGS and thanks to MisterG for spending hours of his Sunday helping delete icky porn


But it should only have taken a few minutes...

How come I missed all this fun?? Myself, knowing you so well, MsG, I think you did it on purpose. (although not having seen the ick, I reserve the right to withdraw this wisecrack in favor of good taste)

I have found also discovered {b]why Mavs so wants to go to the Maldives.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/architecture/undersea.asp

And I have been enjoying my Chocolate Dipped Ginger Altoids very much thank very much.


"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." George Bernard Shaw

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Monday, April 16, 2007 2:59 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Morning, JQ!

I want to go to the Maldives for this:


And from Friday...

A virtual AmEx card? Yowzer. Come out, come out, wherever you are FlyVote!

LA, I love the dress. Perfect for you!

I miss all the fun, too JQ. Guess I should be grateful I didn't see that pic.

We had a big weekend, so I will be offline for a while. Gorramn RL. Why do people need furniture anyway? Why can't they sit on milk crates? Or the floor?

------------------------------------------------

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Monday, April 16, 2007 3:05 AM

FLYVOTE


Jonny - Not everyjohny is about you, man.

Johnny : Where did you get that dress? Its awful... and those shoes, and that coat, geeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz.
(Airplane)

Note the "Airplane". This was a quote from the character "Johnny" played by Stephen Stucker in the 1980 Abrahams/Zucker film. Shirley you knew that?

Quote:


(And now I hear Don Ho died.



Close friend of MrsFlyVote's family.

Edit: Poorly phrased. A member of her family was his closest friend. I never got to meet Don. Would've been nice.

Quote:


(although not having seen the ick, I reserve the right to withdraw this wisecrack in favor of good taste)



You should withdraw.



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Monday, April 16, 2007 3:09 AM

JONNYQUEST

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"


Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
I must show you my Inara dress for D*C ( though I'm doing it with a black, red and gold chinese patterned pashmina instead of the neck scarf)


*JQ begins quest for Inane-Babbling-Like-an-Idiot-Oh-My-Holy-God-Ima-Gonna-See-MsG-in-That cure*



*Faints*


"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." George Bernard Shaw

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Monday, April 16, 2007 3:12 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by Mavourneen:

A virtual AmEx card? Yowzer. Come out, come out, wherever you are FlyVote!




Also a virtual Visa card. I picked the AmEx card first because it has no spending limit.

Quote:


I miss all the fun, too JQ. Guess I should be grateful I didn't see that pic.



I'm pretty sure that MSG will never say that she misses the photo, it being burned in her retinas and all.



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Monday, April 16, 2007 3:12 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
(And now I hear Don Ho died.



Close friend of MrsFlyVote's family.

Edit: Poorly phrased. A member of her family was his closest friend. I never got to meet Don. Would've been nice.



There you are!

Well, MrsFlyvote's family member has my sympathies.
I hadn't thought about him in years, until last week when I say a NY Daily News tabloidy headline about the Don Imus crapola that screamed "Don Ho." I thought it was clever at the time; now it feels just yucky since he died.

------------------------------------------------

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Monday, April 16, 2007 3:25 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
...and per Mavs I'm not allowed to where skirts. (Lucky Penguin)




(paraphrased) Igor: Where skirts? There skirts.


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Monday, April 16, 2007 3:27 AM

JONNYQUEST

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"


Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
Jonny - Not everyjohny is about you, man.


Not...every...It's not? Oh, jeez, is my face red
Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
Johnny : Where did you get that dress? Its awful... and those shoes, and that coat, geeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz.
(Airplane)

Note the "Airplane". This was a quote from the character "Johnny" played by Stephen Stucker in the 1980 Abrahams/Zucker film. Shirley you knew that?


Yes, I did. And don't call me Shirley.
Quote:

Quote:


(although not having seen the ick, I reserve the right to withdraw this wisecrack in favor of good taste)


You should withdraw.


Withdrawn.
Quote:

Originally posted by Mavourneen:
I hadn't thought about him in years, until last week when I say a NY Daily News tabloidy headline about the Don Imus crapola that screamed "Don Ho." I thought it was clever at the time; now it feels just yucky since he died.


Don Imus died, too?

Seriously though, I am sorry for your friend's loss. Don Ho occupies some of my earliest childhood memories and was a great connection between the Islands and the Mainland in the early days of Hawaii's statehood. Though the term is way overused these days, Cultural Icon does seem fitting in this case.
Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
(paraphrased) Igor: Where skirts? There skirts.


@$*%& Now he's catching my misspellings! MOM!


"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." George Bernard Shaw

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Monday, April 16, 2007 3:39 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
Seriously though, I am sorry for your friend's loss. Don Ho occupies some of my earliest childhood memories and was a great connection between the Islands and the Mainland in the early days of Hawaii's statehood. Though the term is way overused these days, Cultural Icon does seem fitting in this case.



I mentioned the Don Ho connection, but was remiss in my intent. I don't wish to solicit sympathy, although it is appreciated. I should have expanded the thought to convey just how much of a gentleman Don was. There are personal stories that won't be repeated here, but they all convey his character in a very positive light. He'll be missed.


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Monday, April 16, 2007 3:42 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
(paraphrased) Igor: Where skirts? There skirts.


@$*%& Now he's catching my misspellings! MOM!



Quite the contrary: You spelled "where" correctly. It was your context.

Do you fell picked on? 'Cause you should...


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Monday, April 16, 2007 4:02 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


*snicker*

Bryce
********


tommorow is our permanent address
and there they'll scarcely find us(if they do,
we'll move away still further:into now

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Monday, April 16, 2007 4:13 AM

MSG


Jonny- 'member when we had that discussion of good vs bad porn...this went past bad porn into seriously disgusting and only done to shock and sicken...still recovering ( and not sure I shall ever post another pic)However, things seem ok now:)

Anyway- glad you like the dress...though I am bigger of boob and hip than the mannequin and not so tall...but it still looks pretty good I think:)

Mav-yeah that's my main worry is the bursting out thing so I bought gaffer's tape to go with the dress and I may get the spray adhesive just so I don't give the D*C people way more of a view than they want:) LOL HUGS



"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs


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Monday, April 16, 2007 4:30 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
Mav-yeah that's my main worry is the bursting out thing so I bought gaffer's tape to go with the dress



Now to me the fact that you can talk about gaffer's tape - well that's a "sexually charged phrase". That brings us back to topic.


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Monday, April 16, 2007 4:39 AM

MSG


Oh come on gaffers tape is the universal fix all:)


"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs


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Monday, April 16, 2007 4:42 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
just so I don't give the D*C people way more of a view than they want



*opens mouth to make sexually-charged comment*

...

*decides against it*


BTW, I or someone else can teach you how to use photobucket so that hotlinking and the issue that happened to your sig pic are never a problem for you again, and you don't have to be afraid of posting pics.

EDIT: There's no way I am going to be able to catch up on the 3 or 4 Imponderables threads from last week, so I am just jumping into this one.


~jimi
SFC Alexander, Chief Medic for the 76th Indepentent Army Battalion
God? Who's colors' he flyin'?
DRIVE - Monday night, 8 pm on F*X

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Monday, April 16, 2007 4:46 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
Oh come on gaffers tape is the universal fix all:)




Duct tape, perhaps, but gaffer's tape isn't quite as common. Gaffer's tape is more expensive than the more common duct tape, but it is worth the money. Gaffer's will work outdoors, where duct will degrade. And gaffer's leaves very little residue.

Perhaps gaffer's is more common where you are at. Garden-variety duct tape is pervasive in stores.

Edit: Your use of the term "gaffer" is akin to not calling a car's engine a "motor".

Edit#2: As far as breast/dress adhesion is concerned, you might look specifically for carpet tape, rather than just office-grade double-sided tape.



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Monday, April 16, 2007 4:52 AM

MSG


Yeah it's expensive, but I love it. Keeps all my scoop neck tops where they need to be

HUGS RIMG-yeah I have photobucket, I'm just a little gun-shy right now:) I'm sure it'll wear off shortly.

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs


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Monday, April 16, 2007 5:02 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
Yeah it's expensive, but I love it. Keeps all my scoop neck tops where they need to be







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Monday, April 16, 2007 5:04 AM

PENGUIN


Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
Yeah it's expensive, but I love it. Keeps all my scoop neck tops where they need to be


Darn!!



King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Monday, April 16, 2007 5:05 AM

MSG


Duct tape prom!!! I have to say those are some inventive kids:)

So hey there's a fun thing to ponder...best/worst prom outfit

My best one was a gorgeous strapless black velvet with red taffeta band at the top....worst was this wine colored lace number with a huge sash thingy that made me look like some sort of old lady. ( mom picked it out)

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs


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Monday, April 16, 2007 5:14 AM

JONNYQUEST

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"


Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
Quite the contrary: You spelled "where" correctly. It was your context.

Do you fell picked on? 'Cause you should...




As you any relation to Hell's Kitten? Like maybe the brother to whom she's refered on several occasions?

Normally I would argue here (hear?) that the word actually is misspelled since the intended word, wear, is not spelled "where". But alas, you are right. The error was not because I spelled it wrong. I just chose the wrong word. It should have been "were".

Quote:

Originally posted by LittleAlbatross29:
*snicker*


HEY! Now I know this "harem" stuff is for real. You used to love me, Bryce. Once. Long ago. I don't expect you to remember. I just cherish those thoughts all by myself.
Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
Anyway- glad you like the dress...though I am bigger of boob and hip than the mannequin and not so tall...but it still looks pretty good I think:)


My favorite mannequin of all time, bar none, is Anne Francis in the Twilight Zone episode. (At first I thought you wrote "I'm a bigger boob"; than who? I wondered. Me?) And I've said it before, Hips don't lie.

HI! RIMG!! I've have SO missed your input here.

And let me say here that I have never been formally ssexually charged...
Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
Edit: Your use of the term "gaffer" is akin to not calling a car's engine a "motor".


Huh. "General Engines"? I don't think that would have gone over as well...
Quote:

Edit#2: As far as breast/dress adhesion is concerned, you might look specifically for carpet tape, rather than just office-grade double-sided tape.

Carpet tape? I'm pretty sure MsG has told us on at least one occasion she has no chest hair. And if she needs someone to hold her outfit in place, she know she can always count on me.

Only went to one prom (senior) and I was in a subdued beige and blue non-tux, to go with my date's platinum satiny wowser. Most everyone else was in sherbet-colored, high-frill, no thill yuck that was so popular in the late 70's.


"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." George Bernard Shaw

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