GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

What's the time line with Firefly and Serenity?

POSTED BY: WHIPLASH4EVER
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 6, 2007 01:37
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Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:44 AM

WHIPLASH4EVER


My Firefly episodes are on their way, but I have questions for you who have seen both. Where does Serenity fall into place. With the events that take place involving Wash at the end of Serenity, I'm assuming that the TV series must take place prior to the movie, however, in the movie, they just break River out of confinement, but she's also in the TV series... so I'm a little confused...

Whip

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:20 AM

EVILDINOSAUR


Well Simon breaking River out in the movie is a flashback, that actually happened some time before the time when the movie occured. That happened before they met the crew of Serenity.

Though there was a minor plot hole that Joss had to create to make the movie viewable by people who hadn't seen the series. In the series Simon states that he had some men free River and they sent her to him in stasis. The workaround that's been created for that is that Simon wasn't being entirely truthful when he said that.

But anyway, back to the timeline. So yes, the movie takes place after the series. I believe it's a matter of months after the last episode of Firefly that Serenity takes place. I don't think they ever flat out say how much time has passed. It's possible you could figure it out by things they say but I've never taken the time to listen close enough to figure that out.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:31 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by EvilDinosaur:
But anyway, back to the timeline. So yes, the movie takes place after the series. I believe it's a matter of months after the last episode of Firefly that Serenity takes place. I don't think they ever flat out say how much time has passed. It's possible you could figure it out by things they say but I've never taken the time to listen close enough to figure that out.



In the movie Mal says (rather forcefully) that Simon and River have been on the ship for 8 months. Which doesn't really mesh all that well with timelines reconstructable from clues in the series but c'est la vie.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:28 PM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER


Well...it doesn't work if one solely works off of assumed travel times between the various planets and moons Serenity visits during the series, but each planet would have its own rotation cycle and seasons. So that would mean the crew could visit Persephone during that planet's summer and later visit Whitefall during their winter.

There's also the workaround that Mal wasn't thinking clearly when he utters the line about the Tams being on board for only 8 months (since the earlier scene during the opening credits when Mal makes reference to a promise Kaylee made months ago under the assumption it was uttered only a couple of weeks previously kinda paints Mal as confuzzled to the extreme).

BEB

Literature has shown us some of humanity's greatest achievements; history, some of our greatest failures -- Alun Lewis

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:08 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueEyedBrigadier:
Well...it doesn't work if one solely works off of assumed travel times between the various planets and moons Serenity visits during the series, but each planet would have its own rotation cycle and seasons. So that would mean the crew could visit Persephone during that planet's summer and later visit Whitefall during their winter.



Seasons don't enter into it. Statements made by various crewmembers regarding the passage of time do. For instance in The Train Job Inara tells Book she's been on Serenity for 8 months. In the next episode, Bushwacked, she tells thehead purplebelly that she has been on Serenity a few weeks short of a full year. So we've got 3 maybe 4 months there.

Then in Trash Mal tells Monty that he met Safron about 6 months back. For a total of 9 to 10 months not including time spent between Bushwacked and Our Mrs. Reynolds and after Objects in Space but before the BDM. Of course the "Mal doesn't relate to callenders well" argument can explain that but I don't really buy that explanation.

Now considering the "different worlds have different callenders" argument I don't think that applies here. The crew of a ship that spends most of it's time travelling between planets isn't going to count time by whichever planet they're closest to they,re going to pick one callender and stick with it. I suspect that's true of the 'verse as a whole actually using some variation on the Gregorian callender we all know and love but we aren't told anywhere one way or the other.



David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:46 PM

DOCTROID


Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
For instance in The Train Job Inara tells Book she's been on Serenity for 8 months. In the next episode, Bushwacked, she tells thehead purplebelly that she has been on Serenity a few weeks short of a full year. So we've got 3 maybe 4 months there.



8 months is a few weeks short of a year. Well, 12 or 13 weeks -- maybe not such a few. But think about it: when someone asks "How long have you (had that car, been dating her, been a Browncoat, etc.)" do you necessarily give an answer that's more than roughly accurate? Inara's "8 months" could really have been 9, "a few weeks" short of a year could be 8 weeks, and right there you're down to one month. I think it's a mistake to assume casually tossed-around time spans to be mathematically accurate.

Anyway, there's a timeline here: http://www.fireflywiki.org/Firefly/FireflyTimeline which may (read: is) not be universally agreed upon but it's at least a starting point. (One thing that bugs me, maybe it's the genealogist in me speaking: they don't say what the evidence is supporting the various dates. I for one am surprised at the assertion Jayne didn't join the crew until four years on, only a year more or less before Simon and River came along. Of course he wasn't in from the beginning, but I always figured he'd been there longer... and I haven't noticed anything in the canon to suggest otherwise.)

(Also the implication that Kaylee was about 15 when she joined the crew strikes me as unlikely.)

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:12 PM

LVS2READ


This is another time-line available, and it does give sources for its reasoning: http://www.mts.net/%7Earphaxad/firefly.html I don't agree with the age assumptions on some of the cast, but it's still the one I refer to most often.

"I love my captain."

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:45 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Whiplash4ever:

My Firefly episodes are on their way, but I have questions for you who have seen both. Where does Serenity fall into place. With the events that take place involving Wash at the end of Serenity, I'm assuming that the TV series must take place prior to the movie, however, in the movie, they just break River out of confinement, but she's also in the TV series... so I'm a little confused...




Much has been said already. There was some good timeline stuff in this thread, too:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=25894&m=427753


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:51 PM

WHIPLASH4EVER


All right, thanks for the links. I'll check them out. I know when movies are made from TV series or books, the story always changes a little. Why, I'm not sure. The reason they're making the movie is because the book or TV series was popular the way it was, and now they go and change it... just one of many things I can't wrap my skull around. I did catch the 8 month reference this last time I watched the movie, but that doesn't seem like it's enough time. 14 episodes took place in 6-8 months? Maybe it's as some of you suggest and it's just Mal not keeping the passage of time straight in his head.

Whip

____________________________________________
Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong


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Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:58 PM

OPERATIVE1985


Quote:

Originally posted by doctroid:

(Also the implication that Kaylee was about 15 when she joined the crew strikes me as unlikely.)


I really hope not, because she is having sex when we first meet her.

"I already know you will not see reason" - The Operative
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Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:16 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Whiplash4ever:

I did catch the 8 month reference this last time I watched the movie, but that doesn't seem like it's enough time. 14 episodes took place in 6-8 months? Maybe it's as some of you suggest and it's just Mal not keeping the passage of time straight in his head.



Well, I did some math in that other thread, working from the assumption that Simon rescued River late 2516 (and, conversely, that he entered Serenity early 2517), so that he and his sister must have been on Serenity close to a year-and-half already by the time the BDM plays (presumably around June 2518).

My gut tells me that Captain's "Eight months. Eight months, you had her on my boat." is not entirely accurate. Unfortunately, "gut" is a body of emotions, usually notably ungoverned. :) So, anything still goes.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:20 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by doctroid:
I think it's a mistake to assume casually tossed-around time spans to be mathematically accurate.



I get the impression that Inara doesn't do anything casually. Still I do get your point about the numbers not being the most precise but they aren't all going to be errors on the long side. Some errors would result in under-reporting time used. And when you add all of the time I left out you certainly do go beyond the 8 month or so time frame that Mal talks about in the movie. Or you start imagining that the 'Verse year consists of 6 months or some such other change to the callender we know. Which is I suppose possible but we have no textual evidence for that being the case.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:26 PM

WHIPLASH4EVER


If this was a separate race, I could buy into the different calendar, but seeing as though this entire solar system is made up of earth bred humans, the calendar would have remained the same. A month is a month is a month. Granted, the seasons would be different from planet to planet, but the time line would be the same.

Whip

____________________________________________
Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong


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Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:42 PM

ASARIAN



Quote:

Originally posted by Operative1985:

Quote:

Originally posted by doctroid:

(Also the implication that Kaylee was about 15 when she joined the crew strikes me as unlikely.)


I really hope not, because she is having sex when we first meet her.




Yeah, there's a oddity to Kaylee's age there. If Mal indeed bought his boat in 2512, and Kaylee was really born in 2497, and we assume Serenity never flew with Mal in it prior to meeting Bester and Kaylee, then Kaylee would indeed have been 15, or 16, at best.

At the end of OiS, though, Kaylee says the following: "And then his folks come by to fetch him, and it turns out he's fourteen years old! I mean, he must have been some kind of genetic experiment, 'cause I swear he was... my daddy whupped me so hard."

So, logically, if Kaylee is made out of wood... no, erm, wrong 'verse. :) So, logically, if Kaylee is onboard Serenity for at least a year by the end of OiS, then it seems unlikely she would refer back to a year ago, having sex with a fourteen year old, who would just have been her own age, as something odd. Her story really only makes sense when she was much older at the time.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, January 27, 2007 10:19 PM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER


Ok...let's work this by the numbers, so to speak:

The broadcast version of the BDS episodes all carried a short "for the uninformed" precis that starts off with a camera shot of Serenity passing by with the caption of c.a. 2517, before explaining the background of the series.

Now...in The Train Job, it's quickly established that it's the anniversary of Unification Day, when the war was declared officially over with the signing of agreements between the Alliance and the former Independent worlds. At least one year has passed since the war ended, but we have to assume it's been more than a couple since Zoe makes reference to Mal always getting into provoked barfights on U-Day. So...let's agree that the war ended in 2511, which means The Train Job would 6 years after the opening gambit at Serenity Valley.

Now...if you use the ages of the BDH actors and actresses, you generally get realistic ballparks for when the various BDHs were born. For example, Nathan Fillion was born in 1971, making him 30-31 at the time of the BDS' initial filming in 2002; this allows us to generate a birth year of 2486-87 for Mal. In fact, according to the record the Alliance grunt pulls up for the Operative's perusal in the BDM, Mal's born September 30, 2486...which makes him a mere handful of months short of his 32nd birthday when the BDM is thought to be set. Similar efforts (though much less canonical) can be done for the entire crew as follows:

1) Mal (Nathan Fillion) – September 30th, 2486

2) Zoë (Gina Torres) – Spring 2484 (Gina was born April 1969)

3) Wash (Alan Tudyk) – Spring 2486 (Alan was born March 1971)

4) Jayne (Adam Baldwin) – Winter/Spring 2477 (Adam was born February 1962)

5) Kaylee (Jewel Staite) – Spring 2497 (Jewel was born June 1982)

6) Inara (Morena Baccarin) – Winter/Spring 2490 (Morena was born January 1979, but it’s assumed Inara is older than a mere 23)

7) Book (Ron Glass) – Summer 2460 (Ron was born July 1945)

8) Simon (Sean Maher) – Spring 2490 (Sean was born April 1975)

9) River (Summer Glau) – Summer 2500 (Summer was born July 1981, but it’s established that River’s only 16 when she joins the crew)

Now then...River's age seems to be the big keystone in developing a resonable timeline, since since her age is referred to the most out of the entire crew's. At least, I think so, since if River is nominally given a birthdate approximate to Summer's own (at least month and day-wise), then the film would be a mere handful of weeks before she turned 18. "Enrolled" at the Academy at age 14 - say...Fall 2514 to keep up a charade that the Academy was an actual school, and to allow for a birthday in the spring or summertime - and removed 2+ years later (Fall 2516 at the earliest, though Winter 2517 seems to allow for opening explanation to work best) by Simon.

A mere 8 months would have the movie set Fall 2517, but a blowup of certain records seen in the movie indicate the date of when the records were access was around June 2518, meaning Simon would have had to have boarded Serenity with River in Fall 2517 and that River had been a prisoner for a bit more than 3 years...not matching up quite right, eh?

BEB

Literature has shown us some of humanity's greatest achievements; history, some of our greatest failures -- Alun Lewis

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:55 AM

WHIPLASH4EVER


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueEyedBrigadier:
Ok...let's work this by the numbers, so to speak:

The broadcast version of the BDS episodes all carried a short "for the uninformed" precis that starts off with a camera shot of Serenity passing by with the caption of c.a. 2517, before explaining the background of the series.

Now...in The Train Job, it's quickly established that it's the anniversary of Unification Day, when the war was declared officially over with the signing of agreements between the Alliance and the former Independent worlds. At least one year has passed since the war ended, but we have to assume it's been more than a couple since Zoe makes reference to Mal always getting into provoked barfights on U-Day. So...let's agree that the war ended in 2511, which means The Train Job would 6 years after the opening gambit at Serenity Valley.

Now...if you use the ages of the BDH actors and actresses, you generally get realistic ballparks for when the various BDHs were born. For example, Nathan Fillion was born in 1971, making him 30-31 at the time of the BDS' initial filming in 2002; this allows us to generate a birth year of 2486-87 for Mal. In fact, according to the record the Alliance grunt pulls up for the Operative's perusal in the BDM, Mal's born September 30, 2486...which makes him a mere handful of months short of his 32nd birthday when the BDM is thought to be set. Similar efforts (though much less canonical) can be done for the entire crew as follows:

1) Mal (Nathan Fillion) – September 30th, 2486

2) Zoë (Gina Torres) – Spring 2484 (Gina was born April 1969)

3) Wash (Alan Tudyk) – Spring 2486 (Alan was born March 1971)

4) Jayne (Adam Baldwin) – Winter/Spring 2477 (Adam was born February 1962)

5) Kaylee (Jewel Staite) – Spring 2497 (Jewel was born June 1982)

6) Inara (Morena Baccarin) – Winter/Spring 2490 (Morena was born January 1979, but it’s assumed Inara is older than a mere 23)

7) Book (Ron Glass) – Summer 2460 (Ron was born July 1945)

8) Simon (Sean Maher) – Spring 2490 (Sean was born April 1975)

9) River (Summer Glau) – Summer 2500 (Summer was born July 1981, but it’s established that River’s only 16 when she joins the crew)

Now then...River's age seems to be the big keystone in developing a resonable timeline, since since her age is referred to the most out of the entire crew's. At least, I think so, since if River is nominally given a birthdate approximate to Summer's own (at least month and day-wise), then the film would be a mere handful of weeks before she turned 18. "Enrolled" at the Academy at age 14 - say...Fall 2514 to keep up a charade that the Academy was an actual school, and to allow for a birthday in the spring or summertime - and removed 2+ years later (Fall 2516 at the earliest, though Winter 2517 seems to allow for opening explanation to work best) by Simon.

A mere 8 months would have the movie set Fall 2517, but a blowup of certain records seen in the movie indicate the date of when the records were access was around June 2518, meaning Simon would have had to have boarded Serenity with River in Fall 2517 and that River had been a prisoner for a bit more than 3 years...not matching up quite right, eh?

BEB

Literature has shown us some of humanity's greatest achievements; history, some of our greatest failures -- Alun Lewis



So, a distilled version of what you're saying is that the series takes place prior to the movie but the time line is fogged due to some inaccuracies in the movie. That was a lot of educated guess work though man. I appreciate it. I have what I hope is a much better grasp on things in the time frame they were supposed to have taken place.

Whip

____________________________________________
Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong


http://www.myspace.com/whips_world


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Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:25 PM

ZZETTA13


IMO there is really no way one can account for time in the verse. Time is the man made calaulation of "Eatrh That Was" and consist of a 24 hour period which has the expantion of a 12 hour day period and a 12 hour night period. In our very own solar system planets can turn slower or faster than on our own. Where our world takes 24 hours for a rotation another world may take 36 hours or 48. 1 day on Persephone could be 6 hours on whitefall. Jayne may have joined the crew of Serenity in July while Inara could have made her agreement to come aboard on Sunday. The show is what it is and if it is confusing now wait till daylight savings time kicks in.

Z

PS: please take this on the light side that it was posted by me to be

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Monday, February 5, 2007 5:15 PM

WHIPLASH4EVER


I wouldn't take it any other way my friend. I was just asking due to a morbid curiosity of mine to put everything in a black and white straight line, even though we all know, most of the time we operate in a rather large gray area. It actually makes sense that keeping track of time would be hard because seasons would be different on every planet and moon... which I hadn't thought of. Also, bigger planets would spin slower than smaller planets thus making the seasons longer. There would have to be some sort of way to figure it out though. Everyone bases their time off the main/first planet regardless of what season or time it is on your own world. I think that would have to be the only way. If the Alliance wants to keep accurate records of everyone everywhere, that's the only way to do it. What good would it be to have the year a man was born if his age would vary depending on what planet he was on.

Anyway, As near as I can tell, it looks as though anywhere from the time River and Simon get on board Serenity to the end of the series. How much time has past from the end of the last episode to the movie... that's still in the air.

Whip

____________________________________________
Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong


http://www.myspace.com/whips_world


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Tuesday, February 6, 2007 1:37 AM

WHIPLASH4EVER


I did find this, for whatever it's worth, right here on this site



2511 - The Battle of Serenity Valley 9.4.2002 02:20

2511 - Yolanda is married to Durran Haymer 4.21.2003 22:14

2514 - Jayne pulls a job on Higgins' Moon 4.21.2003 22:06

2516 - Jayne Cobb and two others attempt to hijack the Serenity 2.12.2003 12:34

2517 - Crow is killed by Captain Malcolm 'Mal' Reynolds 2.12.2003 10:48

2517 - Mal pulls the train job for Adelei Niska 9.4.2002 02:20

2517 - Serenity takes on Shepard Book, Simon and River Tam 2.12.2003 10:23

Whip

____________________________________________
Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong


http://www.myspace.com/whips_world


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